Re: US strike options on TSP

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 23 Nov 2011 07:05

Marta Tienda, Faith Mitchell - Multiple Origins, Uncertain Destinies: Hispanics and the American Future
Publisher: Nаtional Acаdemies Press | 2006-03-01 | ISBN: 0309096677 | 176 pages |

Given current demographic trends, nearly one in five U.S. residents will be of Hispanic origin by 2025. This major demographic shift and its implications for both the United States and the growing Hispanic population make Multiple Origins, Uncertain Destinies a most timely book. This report from the National Research Council describes how Hispanics are transforming the country as they disperse geographically. It considers their roles in schools, in the labor market, in the health care system, and in U.S. politics.
The book looks carefully at the diverse populations encompassed by the term “Hispanic,” representing immigrants and their children and grandchildren from nearly two dozen Spanish-speaking countries. It describes the trajectory of the younger generations and established residents, and it projects long-term trends in population aging, social disparities, and social mobility that have shaped and will shape the Hispanic experience.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2011 06:47

By 2030 one in five in US will be Hispanic. The project to Anglicize the Hispanics is not working. It led to the sub-prime crisis in 2008 as the Atlantic Monthly detailed. Also the Hispanic Church is based on amalgam of native American beliefs. As they increase in numbers the empahsis on EJihdaism of the Baptists will be blunted.
In other words in a matter of two decades demographics will make itself felt. Is it time for India to hold out?

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby svinayak » 29 Nov 2011 06:54

Not enough time for India. India needs pro active measures

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 01 Dec 2011 02:16

Two articles

NYT Decline of American Exceptionalism

NPR discussion on this subject;

Fewer than half of Amercians believe they are the best

The audio will be there after 6:00 pm EST. Please do listen or read the transcript. There is deep anxiety in manifest destiny.

My take is the funda causes the experts talk about are incorrect.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ManuT » 15 Feb 2012 17:03

I vaguely remember a discussion on BRF a while ago. providing for reference.

United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ingh_Thind

United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind, 261 U.S. 204 (1923), was a case in which the United States Supreme Court decided that Bhagat Singh Thind, who was a Punjabi Sikh, settled in Oregon, could not be a naturalized citizen of the United States, because he was not a "white person" in the sense intended in the relevant 1790 statute governing naturalization. Although Thind argued that as an Indian he belonged to the Aryan and therefore the Caucasian race, the Court found that "the Aryan theory, as a racial basis, seems to be discredited by most, if not all, modern writers on the subject of ethnology," and noted that "the Caucasic division of the human family is 'in point of fact the most debatable field in the whole range of anthropological studies.'" The Court found that the authors of the 1790 statute probably ascribed to "the Adamite theory of creation" and understood "white people" in its popular, and not scientific, sense.

....

As a result of a U.S. Supreme Court decision finding that no person of East Indian origin could become a naturalized American, the first person of Indian origin to become an American citizen, A.K. Mozumdar, had his citizenship revoked. A decision on his appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld that revocation.

Suggestive of the poor coordination within the legal system of the early 20th century is the fact that Thind applied for and received U.S. citizenship through the state of New York a few years after his original U.S. citizenship was revoked by the U.S. Supreme Court. Numerous other instances exist of naïve clerks, or clerks acting in protest, who granted citizenship in defiance of the Supreme Court[citation needed].

As public support for Indians grew throughout World War II[citation needed], and as India's independence came closer to reality, Indians argued for an end to their legislative discrimination. The repeal of Chinese exclusion laws in 1943 and the granting of naturalization privileges to Chinese encouraged Indians to hope for similar gains. Hurdling over many members of Congress and the American Federation of Labor, which vehemently opposed removing legislative measures barricading Indian immigration and naturalization, the Indian community succeeded in gaining support among several prominent congressmen, as well as President Franklin D. Roosevelt. The support culminated in the signing into law by President Truman on July 2, 1946, of the Luce-Celler Act. This Act reversed the Thind decision, insofar as allowing naturalization to Indians, and set a token quota for their immigration at 100 per year.

In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed the Hart-Celler Immigration Act, which phased out the national origins quota system first instituted in 1921. In 1965–1970, 27,859 Indian immigrants entered the United States. Immigration from India in 1965–1993 was 558,980.[citation needed

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby gunjur » 19 Feb 2012 16:01

Has there been any discussion as to how and why republicans who were liberal (who fought against slave trade. Though problems for the blacks didn't cease after war) became conservatives and democrats who were conservatives (even until FDR, who went on to snub jesse owens) became liberals.
I somehow don’t see this sort of flip/swap happening in india (though it would be interesting to see sonia/rahul taking on missionaries et al).

Also with US really becoming truly diverse with lots of Asians, Hispanics, Africans, muslims increasing their numbers, will the duopoly of democrats and republicans finally start to crumble. Though this may take time, maybe initially each group may form lobby/pressure group within these two parties (certainly jews have already done this. But how are other groups progressing?). Later at a local level, newer parties(representing each group) may come, which may ally with a bigger party who can satisfy their demands (similar to kerala or what is happening @ national level in india). Maybe at a much much later date these smaller parties may eclipse this duopoly, thus making US a multi-party democracy. Yes, demography has a big part to play in all this.

With Regards
Gunjur

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby devesh » 19 Feb 2012 20:04

it's the shift of the Jacksonians from the Democratic Party to GOP that was first engineered by Nixon's "Southern Strategy". since Andrew Jackson's time, this section was firmly with Democrats. starting in the 60's, when the Democrats started backing the Civil Rights and Hippie movements, this section shifted en masse to the Republicans. This is responsible for the increase in Republican leaning Congresses in the last 50 years.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby gunjur » 21 Feb 2012 23:52

^^^ also are there any local/state level leaders from Non-white (also leave out Blacks) mushrooming who could bring a large votes to the table and hence being wooed by duopoly. Though i suppose maybe as of now only hispanics have that sort of number. The sooner it happens the better it is. Would like to see how coalition dharma would be played in US.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 01 Mar 2012 02:06

Anybody see the irony of Meryl Streep winning the Oscar for portraying Margret Thatcher, while the US doesn't allow any women political leaders to develop to same stature as the Iron Lady?

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 17 Mar 2012 08:12

The Roots of American Exceptionalism: Institutions, Culture, and Policies By Charles Lockhart
English | 2012 | ISBN: 0230116760 | 294 pages |

How do United States public policies differ from those of other wealthy democracies? Why do they differ? The Roots of American Exceptionalism draws on societies' unique histories, distinctive paths of institutional development and contrasting cultures to explain why they adopt different policies for common problems. It compares the United States with Sweden on tax policy, Canada on financing medical care, France on abortion policy, and Japan on immigration.

The book shows that American public policies across these four areas fit a pattern of embodying the fundamental beliefs and value priorities of a particular culture: individualism. And while American public policies are rational from this cultural perspective, the relative strengths and weaknesses of this culturally-constrained rationality are contrasted with those of alternative, more egalitarian and/or hierarchical, culturally-constrained rationalities which prevail in Sweden, Canada, France and Japan.


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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 17 Mar 2012 23:23


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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2012 03:40

Trayon Martin shooting case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Example of selective bias in US

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby lakshmikanth » 24 Mar 2012 05:03

Another white-washed soul;

http://ideas.time.com/2012/03/23/a-vets ... -massacre/

But our generation of fighters is lucky enough to live in a society that is at least tolerant of our service members, if not passionately enthusiastic about us. Our military has had several soldiers engage in inhumane acts in combat over the past decade. But for the most part, our culture understands that these isolated incidents don’t represent the 99% of soldiers who are good-hearted people that have served honorably. And if we solely analyze this as an issue of character, then of course I wholeheartedly agree. But the problem is that this incident, and the ones that may occur in the future, are not simply issues of character, but of post-traumatic stress. And through this lens, I fear the “isolated incident” argument may leave several soldiers neglected.


Here is an equivalent quote from a truly islamic perspective :D.

But our generation of fighters pious members is lucky enough to live in a society that is at least tolerant of our service members pious members, if not passionately enthusiastic about us. Our military religion has had several soldiers pious engage in inhumane acts in combat jihad over the past decade. But for the most part, our culture understands that these isolated incidents don’t represent the 99% of soldiers pious who are good-hearted people that have served honorably. And if we solely analyze this as an issue of character, then of course I wholeheartedly agree. But the problem is that this incident, and the ones that may occur in the future, are not simply issues of character, but of post-traumatic stress madness. And through this lens, I fear the “isolated incident” argument may leave several soldiers pious neglected.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby lakshmikanth » 24 Mar 2012 05:24

Here is another article on latent bias in the US. If not defused, this has the potential to explode like a volcano in the near to distant future.

http://ideas.time.com/2012/03/21/how-to ... von-martin

3. There is nothing wrong with you. You’re amazing. I love you. When I look at you, I see a complex human being with awesome potential, but some others will look at you and see a thug — even if their only evidence is your skin. Their racism relates to larger anxieties and problems in America that you didn’t create. When someone is racist toward you — either because they’ve profiled you or spit some slur or whatever — they are saying they have a problem. They are not speaking about you. They’re speaking about themselves and their deficiencies.

4. You will have to make allowances for other people’s racism. That’s part of the burden of being black. We can be defiant and dead or smart and alive. I’m not saying you can’t wear what you want, but your clothes are a red herring. They’ll blame it on your hoodie or your jeans when the real reason they decided you were a criminal is that you’re black. Of course, you know better. Racism is about reminding you that you are less human, less valuable, less worthy, less beautiful, less intelligent. It’s about prejudging you as violent, fearsome, a threat. Some people will take that prejudice and try to force their will on you to make sure you feel like a second-class citizen and to make certain you get back to the lower-class place they think you’re trying to escape. The best way to counter them involves not your fists but your mind. You know your value to the world and how terrific you are. If you never forget that, they can’t damage your spirit. The best revenge is surviving and living well.


This is exactly like some Islamic men blaming wimmens for raping them saying :- "You will be raped if you wear anything provocative!". What they end up doing is telling the colored :- "You better behave or else.......!".

Its a sad read. Pretty much applies to being a colored in the US. These biases dont usually show up in day to day encounters. It shows up in case of "percieved crisis" or an actual "crisis".

Sometimes even if they behave they get into trouble because of skin color, and hence my term for the racism the way it is in the US is permanent caste system. The Indian one is a mild child's play compared to the latent one in the US.

Here is a case where a "perceived crisis" turned into a real crisis for three unrelated yet extremely well behaved brown people:
http://shebshi.wordpress.com/2011/09/12 ... n-detroit/

On a lighter note: If you are brown, you better not consume bad burritos before your flight :D :D

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2012 06:19

lakshmikanth wrote:x-post from "Understanding the US" thead:

Another white-washed soul;

http://ideas.time.com/2012/03/23/a-vets ... -massacre/



By and large this is a good article. he topic has come up before and I actually bought 4 books on the psychology of men at war while we had discussions about his in the Mil Forum. I finished reading two of them only a few months ago :roll:

After WW2 the studies in the US showed that not all soldiers were fighting or being effective. After Vietnam in particular, the US found that it lost the war politically despite military superiority. Since then the US has applied, with typical American efficiency methods to make combat soldiers very effective killers. Part of that training is to make them see all adversaries as monsters. Many studies have shown that the soldier, when in comes to the crunch, finds it difficult to actually pull the trigger and kill people he can see, and after he does that he has nightmares and other undesired effects. This is overcome by indoctrination to hate. Islamic goons of the Lashkar-e Toiba are taught to hate Hindus/Indians in the same way and find no difficulty in killing.

Other complaints about the US ssytem is that many studies have shown that man who have been in battle and have killed and seen men being killed need to chill out among their own men who have been with them so they can share their sorros and joys. But what the US does is transport a man who has done his tour of duty right back to the USA. This man, who was in a high stress situation days earlier, and was killing and seeing dead people is suddenly back in America and develops fullscale PTSD. (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

There are no easy solutions for someone who need men to make war continuously.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby SBajwa » 24 Mar 2012 06:27

by Ramana
Anybody see the irony of Meryl Streep winning the Oscar for portraying Margret Thatcher, while the US doesn't allow any women political leaders to develop to same stature as the Iron Lady?


That's because president is the head of armed forces in USA while prime minister is not the head of armed forces in England (westminster democracry). In India too prime minister is head of armed forces by proxy only. India does not have a leader that is in charge of everything from economics to defense., while USA does. British parliamentary democracy is flawed in that sense!

Remember that england and france were later day democracies while US is the real creator of the democracy! (1776 when the people in USA declared themselves to be free of king of England)! I

I do believe that a perfect leader needs to be the head of any country like in US democracy. Parliament form of England is not the answer but USA is. Canada does not have a perfect democracy either!! The problems will rise in Canada.

and 2 party politics is much better than "multi party" where people gets so divided and mired in their local interests (from caste, creed, color, economic, union, region, food, etc).

and I do believe that until a Woman is allowed to be charge of the military (Chief of armed forces) she is not fit to become a leader of the country.

Which country in the world will let Woman be in charge of their defense? that's $64000 question!!!

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Mar 2012 07:10

Dharun Ravi interview on ABC 20/20 at 10pm Eastern daylight Time (15 minutes from now)

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby devesh » 24 Mar 2012 07:12

Bajwa ji,
interesting points. in this case, Indian women prove themselves up to the task. Rani Lakshmibai and Maharani Tarabai are both good examples. both women showed exemplary courage under extremely distressful condition and personally led armies. especially Tarabai. from 1700 to 1707, while Shahu was still hostage in Delhi, Tarabai was the woman who led the Maratha resistance against Mughals.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Mar 2012 07:35

On PBS Newshour today, they had a couple of law experts debating the case of the US Army Staff Sergeant who shot 17 Afghan civilians last week. It seems the Govt will have a hard time proving its charges. It will also have a hard time fighting against the defense strategy of "this man was not in control of his actions (due to stress)".

So, Robert Bales is unlikely to be convicted of wilful mass murder.

Elsewhere, in Sanford, Florida, the white guy (Joe Zimmerman) who shot an unarmed black teenager to death, claimed self-defense and is yet to be arrested,

OTOH Dharun Ravi who, as a 19 year old, played a prank that went horribly wrong, is convicted of a hate crime.

Dharun is probably going to spend more time in prison than either Robert Bales or Joe Zimmerman.

Go figure.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby lakshmikanth » 24 Mar 2012 07:46

TFTA Gungadeen and NY Times "rented-negro" Sarah Khan's latest (f)article to shame us SDRE Indians:

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/ ... community/

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2012 08:16

LK, That is the speech I gave my kids. And I faced most of those situations. But time and again I make them come to me for solutions.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby member_19686 » 24 Mar 2012 08:21

Kakkaji wrote:On PBS Newshour today, they had a couple of law experts debating the case of the US Army Staff Sergeant who shot 17 Afghan civilians last week. It seems the Govt will have a hard time proving its charges. It will also have a hard time fighting against the defense strategy of "this man was not in control of his actions (due to stress)".

So, Robert Bales is unlikely to be convicted of wilful mass murder.

Elsewhere, in Sanford, Florida, the white guy (Joe Zimmerman) who shot an unarmed black teenager to death, claimed self-defense and is yet to be arrested,

OTOH Dharun Ravi who, as a 19 year old, played a prank that went horribly wrong, is convicted of a hate crime.

Dharun is probably going to spend more time in prison than either Robert Bales or Joe Zimmerman.

Go figure.

Does this guy look "white" to you:

Image

According to his dad he identifies himself as Hispanic (could be of any race of course), but he is by no means "white" when people think of a white man.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Mar 2012 08:33

Surasena wrote:Does this guy look "white" to you:

Image



He is a lot whiter than me :wink:

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2012 08:36

The guy on the right looks white to me. OTOH hand if he's not white, the guy on the left isn't black. He's reddish-brown.
Image

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby member_19686 » 24 Mar 2012 08:41

Yes reddish-brown would be correct, good thing someone finally got it right.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2012 08:46

lakshmikanth wrote:TFTA Gungadeen and NY Times "rented-negro" Sarah Khan's latest (f)article to shame us SDRE Indians:

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/ ... community/


Well Hindu Indians are Islamophobic as well, seeing the way they treat Moslems in Cashmere. What else would you expect from a community that has a racist caste system and burns widows?

Indophobia is a term that is waiting to be invented.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Bade » 24 Mar 2012 08:54

His last name clearly is not hispanic, could be mixed (mom Peruvian?) but some hispanics do classify themselves as caucasian or white.

In the media (radio, as have not read up on this) his hispanic heritage is being identified mostly and his origins are in DC metro area to the west which has turned more Hispanic over the last decade. Is it a case of trying to deny a white on black and make it look Hispanic on black, as it is a easy sell considering how the white man looks ?

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 24 Mar 2012 09:04


shiv
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2012 20:08

In the 1960s my parents bought a 45 RPM record of Nursery Rhymes for us. I still have the record and one of the songs was "Ten Little Nigger Boys" sung by "Stanley, Doris and the Kids" with a very British accent.

I uploaded the song to YouTube as a curiosity and "sort of" expected that most people would have a god laugh at "How things used to be". But that video now has 200,000 hits and seems to feature in racist sites mostly in America (as per video viewing stats) . And some of the comments are pure racism. Mind you there are over 1000 comments, but I have read them serially as they are emailed to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkb4rP6Jq1Q

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby gakakkad » 24 Mar 2012 20:54

abhishek_sharma wrote:Who is George Zimmerman?


so the guy is not jewish ... I honestly thought he was a Jew going by his surname.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2012 21:51

The core fact in the Trayon Martin shooting and killing, is that a young unarmed boy less than 18 was shot and killed.
The victim was returning from a 7-11 store after buying a bag of Skittles candy. He was pursued and confronted by another man and soon after shot. The suspect is bulky and has police records. His call to 911 is garbled and he was told by the dispatcher that police i son the way and not to confront anyone. He did that anyway. He Claims to have used the gun in self defence. The facts dont match as the victim was slight built and the suspect is burly. Besides the victim was unarmed and for the suspect to use a deadly weapon is definitely over reach. The doctrine of self defence allows enough force for self defence.

Right now there is a grand jury investigation.

The other aspect is the Sanford police actions.

For three days they kept the victim's corpse in the morgue and named him 'John Doe' aka unknown. They did not ask the 7-11 store owner or any one near the incident.

They did not arrest the suspect.
They claim that the suspect's claim o self defense and his earlier criminal studies are mitigating factors in his favors.
They ignore the fact that the suspect has prior police records.
If there is bias its in the police dept which stereotyped the victim and took no action to apprehend the suspect.

By focusing on the suspect the people are letting the bigger wrong of systemic bias against colored people in the Florida justice system go unabated.

Yes the suspect is guilty of deadly force and sholud be charged with some degree of murder. He may or may not have race bias though his asking the victim about his dress etc show there is latent bias.
The bigger criminals are the Sanford police dept which has systemic bias and were prone to go slow if not hush up the shooting case.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby nvishal » 24 Mar 2012 22:59

Surasena wrote:Does this guy look "white" to you:

Image

Shiv aroor?

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 25 Mar 2012 01:23

Determined to miss nothing, George kept an unusually detailed diary, employing undiminished descriptive skills to capture Johannesburg’s sprawl and the aridity of the plain surrounding it; the California-like cultural sparseness of Pretoria; the stately elegance of the Blue Train to Cape Town; the excitement of standing at the windswept tip of the continent, where great swells from the Atlantic collided with smaller ones from the Indian Ocean. He noted jarring contrasts: modern universities, luxurious country clubs, and efficient mining operations, but also townships into which Bantus were being relocated against their will. Kennan had no objection in principle to the idea of separate development, having long believed that race shaped culture. Recent American efforts to pretend otherwise had even left him sympathetic to apartheid, he confessed to Dönhoff in 1965. But separation should not require humiliation, and that was what bothered him about South Africa.

Took a walk to a park [in Johannesburg] where grown up “non-Europeans” were permitted to walk but their children could not play on the swings. Similarly, there is a beach, on the sea-coast, where black fishermen may ply their calling and launch their boats but must not swim for recreation. I am told that a drawing appeared in one of the periodicals here showing a black man on his hands [and knees] scrubbing a church floor and a white overseer saying: “One prayer out of you, and out you go.”

In the Transkei, the first of the “homelands” the white minority government had established, the Kennans visited a hut with a thatched roof and a dirt floor, surrounded by human and animal excrement because there were no sanitary facilities. It was, George guessed, how most of the territory’s residents lived. He found it “heart-rending” to see how cruelly apartheid oppressed the people he met, “particularly the younger ones.” He doubted, therefore, that it could last.

...

Apartheid, Kennan wrote the president of the African-American Institute shortly after returning to Princeton, was “not only offensive to our sensibilities, but clearly inadequate to South Africa’s own needs and doomed to eventual failure.” Any quick shift to majority rule there or elsewhere, though, would be “a disaster for all concerned.” Blacks were not ready for it, and whites were determined to fight rather than yield. So did it make sense for the United States to be supporting “national liberation” movements? Was it prepared to liquidate the war in Vietnam to fight an even bigger one on their behalf? It was “not our business, nor does it lie within our capabilities,” to compel changes in institutions and practices of other countries “when they do not meet with our approval.” With the passage of time, South Africa’s leaders would see that they could not continue to keep most of their population in “ignorance and civil helplessness.” The greatest service Americans could provide to apartheid’s victims would be to permit “the logic of that situation to work itself out.”54

Gaddis, John Lewis (2011-11-10). George F. Kennan: An American Life (p. 603-605). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.


Racism was fairly common in US in 1950s and 1960s. Kennan believed that women and African-Americans shouldn't get voting rights.

Even a person like S. Chandrashekhar faced discrimination at University of Chicago. Professors of his department did not want him to teach. Fortunately the president of university intervened and he was allowed to teach.

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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Kakkaji » 25 Mar 2012 01:49

college-parents-can-only-watch-as-dorm-room-door-slams

Not one like that room.

That’s what parents of high school seniors are saying to themselves this spring as they send in the new-car-level deposit for their darling’s college dorm room and tuitio

They’re thinking of the recent hate-crime conviction of a student at Rutgers University who secretly taped his roommate having sex with another man in their room and shared the video. The roommate subsequently committed suicide.

Most parents quickly tell themselves to move on. After all, there is little chance their child’s roommate will be so heinous as to record someone else’s private life; there’s little chance their child would tape someone else; there’s little chance their child would commit suicide.

Still, parents hesitate. That’s because it is quite possible for their child to land with a roommate whose activities -- sexual, social or addictive -- are hard to take. For every federal hate-crime case like the Rutgers one, there are hundreds of rotten rooming situations that drive kids to drop out, transfer or simply endure a memorably painful year, with or without sorting out what is happening to them. And there’s precious little anyone -- parent, child, school -- can do about it.

The anti- repression movement eventually yielded the vote for 18-year- olds, the end of the draft and a violent reinterpretation of old laws in favor of a new emphasis on the enforcement of civil and human rights.

Most of those who advocated these changes never anticipated their downside. Intimidated by courts and students who preferred colleges advertising freedom, deans and dorm mothers abdicated their authority or disappeared. When students became voting adults, privacy laws shut out parents as well. No one controls what happens in dorms, and those freshmen, who often don’t pick their roommates, become especially vulnerable.

Hate Crimes

Our national emphasis on defining wrongdoing through the legal code -- hate crimes -- implies that everything that isn’t illegal is tenable in a college community. A student who tapes a homosexual act is guilty of a hate crime, but one who tapes heterosexual sex is only likely to be subject to slow-moving dorm discipline, if that. All victims of video-bullying are equally harmed.

The “tragedy of the commons” is an old economic concept. It holds that people will abuse a public resource until that resource is exhausted. But we also have a “tragedy of the common room” at colleges, where nobody owns the dorm desk or bed, and everybody abuses it. The result isn’t “Goodbye, Columbus.” It is the anything-goes of bullies on the rampage: “Lord of the Flies.”

The challenge for parents is to take dorm anarchy seriously. They need to consider how to help schools reclaim dorms, so that students there not only don’t tape, but also protect and respect one another. There’s got to be a way to do that so it also honors everyone’s rights. Civil rights alone don’t constitute a community.

There’s something creepy about the current situation, in which adults cross their fingers and look away from what transpires at colleges because civil-rights lawyers are on the job there. After all, we don’t check into a motel on the assurance that hate crimes perpetrated there will be prosecuted. We also want the assurance that the establishment will be reasonably civil, quiet and clean.

It’s time to aim for an American college room uncrazy enough that an adult, too, might consider moving in.


In the US system, once a child turns 18, he/she gains a lot of rights that were unimaginable for those of us who grew up in India.

For example, the college will not share any information with you about your children without their consent. Their college grades, their medical records are all personal information that you cannot see without their consent. The college administrators will not even locate them for you if you are anxious about them.

All you as parent are supposed to do is to write checks to the college for their education and keep praying that they do not get into any kind of trouble.

JwalaMukhi
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby JwalaMukhi » 25 Mar 2012 02:12

Obviously, there is no alarm about dorm rooms that are commonly shared, turning into whore houses and gay bars.

shiv
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2012 06:05

Kakkaji wrote:college-parents-can-only-watch-as-dorm-room-door-slams

A student who tapes a homosexual act is guilty of a hate crime, but one who tapes heterosexual sex is only likely to be subject to slow-moving dorm discipline, if that. All victims of video-bullying are equally harmed.


I checked the url. It's bloomberg.com. I checked to see if the author was me. It isn't. It appears to be an Amity Shales. Clearly she is bigot who needs to be educated about American laws. It's about privacy. Those boys were adults. It's easy to live in a cocoon and not see what is happening in the world outside.

Raja Bose
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Mar 2012 06:53



Priceless comment from someone from Michigan:

Nobody's wearing Indian designer clothing. Nobody's laying out $12 to see either of their movies, or music, or anything else.


I guess the guy needs to visit California and see all that he thinks is not happening, happening. :mrgreen:

devesh
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby devesh » 25 Mar 2012 10:32

that comment, while it is supposed to be stinging for us Injuns, actually it shows how far America has fallen. When the entire concept of "American Exceptionalism" is down to a few design wear and $12 movie tickets, that pretty much shows that the entire idea of "exception" is intellectually and culturally bankrupt, for all intents and purposes.

I would save that comment for future reference. it shows the rapid "fall" of US stature and power.

Prem
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby Prem » 25 Mar 2012 10:58

devesh wrote:that comment, while it is supposed to be stinging for us Injuns, actually it shows how far America has fallen. When the entire concept of "American Exceptionalism" is down to a few design wear and $12 movie tickets, that pretty much shows that the entire idea of "exception" is intellectually and culturally bankrupt, for all intents and purposes.
I would save that comment for future reference. it shows the rapid "fall" of US stature and power.


The guy need to know that the beggers in Delhi spend more than 12 $ for lunch. Forgive the man for he lives in the downtown Kabul of America.

gakakkad
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Re: Understanding the US-2

Postby gakakkad » 25 Mar 2012 12:09



The guy need to know that the beggers in Delhi spend more than 12 $ for lunch. Forgive the man for he lives in the downtown Kabul of America.



:mrgreen:


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