Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

[SSridhar]

Sri, absolutely. A country like TSP should not even be rated, forget a B-

[JE Menon]

aditya - Rahul M has fixed it.

@Rahul - Thanx mate.

[Vivek_A]

India is BBB- .

S&P like others is a hog wash.... Don't bother...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_%26_Poor%27s

BBB- is investment grade.

TSP's rating is below investment grade i.e. junk bond.

[SSridhar]

The 'resilient' Pakistani economy does not need IMF loans : TSP FM

Pakistani Finance Minister Abdul Hafeez Shaikh told the daily that the IMF conditions were too tough and the government would instead pursue a home-grown reform program, adding that the "resilient" economy did not need IMF help.

The IMF forecasts Pakistan to post growth of just 2.6 percent in 2011, among the lowest in Asia, while inflation is tipped to stand at around 14 percent this year and next -- among the highest in the world.

[Altair]

The 'resilient' Pakistani economy does not need IMF loans
The IMF forecasts Pakistan to post growth of just 2.6 percent in 2011, among the lowest in Asia, while inflation is tipped to stand at around 14 percent this year and next -- among the highest in the world.

Growth in Paki economy?
Please tell me how I can get a job at IMF as an analyst. I am serious.

[CRamS]

^^^^ " American army is loosing in Afghanistan, how can Indian army win in Kashmir? Is Indian army more powerful than American army?" Imran Khan.
This man is a gullible fool, which the PA , needs as a front to assuage peoples emotions, thats it. He has no economic agenda what so ever.
In a way i think Pakistan deserves a messiah like this, before the Talibanisation happens. Mark my words this guy will be a great disaster.

We don't give a s@it about who rules TSP. All we care about is that TSP bottle up its terrorists.

[CRamS]

omar's paki girlfriend was singing this moron's praises on undie tv just the

other day in a fawning interview.

This guy has always been bad news for India but we have failed to

recognize it because of panting and creaming female anchors.

You mean Omar Abdullah? Who is this Paki? Need to watch this guy.

Imran Khan brags about his Indian exploits. So does Mush about his popularity in India. TSP is toying with India (and DocJi says with US too ). So perhaps our best bet is Haqqani . See next post of mine.

[CRamS]

Guys, interesting report from NYT, on what MullenJi said explicitly, namely, Haqqani == TSPA/ISI. But this is what caught my attention:

The Pakistani Taliban and the Haqqanis help each other with money, intelligence and suicide bombers.

Some in the Pakistani military have acknowledged this merging of insurgent groups, yet the policy of support for the Haqqanis is unchanged. “We know that the Haqqanis are playing a double game,” a Pakistani military official in North Waziristan said last year. “We support them and they support our enemies, the TTP,” as the Pakistani Taliban are known.

Man oh man, looks like Haqqanis are using TSP too to get their aims realized in Afghanistan, and then TSP faces the music . Can't wait for this. Maybe the CIA slime balls are up to something in their negotiations with Haqqani. They give them something to wean them away from ISI?

[Rohit_K]

this week's installment of ZH laughter (for those who missed)

[Altair]

^^ We generally avoid posting these lal topi mashkaray videos

[Kashi]

You mean Omar Abdullah? Who is this Paki? Need to watch this guy.

I believe that Chetak may be referring to Nidhi Razdan, OA's latest muse.

[shiv]

this week's installment of ZH laughter (for those who missed)

Rohit please don't post this rubbish here. First there is a segment of people who cannot understand this moron's Urdu and posting a 35 minute video and calling it "humour" is unfair. Any unsuspecting person who clicks on "play" has to refresh or change the page to stop the video from loading. Just put it on BENIS if you think its funny. I think it is painful.

[Rajdeep]

Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif Guilty In Pakistani Cricket Spot-Fixing Trial

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11 ... 69084.html

Prosecutors said that Butt and Asif had conspired with another bowler, Mohammad Amir, to bowl three 'no balls' at the Lord's Test between 26 and 29 August last year.

Two other accused - fast bowler Mohammad Aamer and players' agent Mazhar Majeed - are reported to have pleaded guilty.

Salman Butt is an unfortunate name to have in jail.

[SSridhar]

Man oh man, looks like Haqqanis are using TSP too to get their aims realized in Afghanistan, and then TSP faces the music . Can't wait for this.

A few weeks back, I posted this here.

The 'good Taliban' and 'bad Taliban' play the 'good cop' and 'bad cop' role respectively. There is no division between them, save for the internecine tribal differences that go back centuries. Haqqani always mediated when things got out of control between the Waziris and the Mehsuds. The PA tried to exploit the differences to its advantage. This is akin to the mujahideen's jihad against the USSR. They were again disparate and had to be marshalled by the ISI. The ISI wanted to have a similar role between the 'good' and the 'bad' Taliban. It did not pan out that way.

On the broader canvas of opposition to the Yahuds, Hanuds and the Nasaras, as well as the establishment of the Caliphate through Pakistan, the two Talibans are together along with a large section of the Pakistani Army itself. The 'good Taliban' appear 'good' to the Pakistanis because for the time being, they are fighting the Americans in Afghanistan. The 'bad Taliban' appear 'bad' to the Pakistanis because they have been concentrating on Pakistan. For the discerning though, these are the twin objectives of the AQAM. There is no contradiction in their approach.

A time will come though when the 'good Taliban' will also turn 'bad'.

[shiv]

Man oh man, looks like Haqqanis are using TSP too to get their aims realized in Afghanistan, and then TSP faces the music . Can't wait for this. Maybe the CIA slime balls are up to something in their negotiations with Haqqani. They give them something to wean them away from ISI?

CRamS - you are an intelligent man and it pains me to see the blinkers that you seem to put on when it comes to any information emanating from the USA - even though you are yourself sometimes scathing about the sources.

If you go back an look at news emanating from the USA from 2001 to maybe 2007 to 8. It was all about Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda Al Qaeda Al Qaeda. The US administration needs a "designated enemy" - like "Japs", "Gooks", "Commies" etc. to make it look like they have a plan and pretend that they have a clue about what they are doing. Confidence and a dignifoed bearing gets you everywhere in America, but I digress. At some stage "Al Qaeda" changed to "Taliban". Now Taliban has changed to "haqqani network"

Now I know you have mostly contempt for any Indian information, but I ask you to hold your nose, get a barf bag ready and indulge me by reading what I say. India found out that Harkat ul Ansar, Harkat ul Mujahidden, Jaish e Mohammad , Lashkar e Toiba and host of militant groups who had their cadres eliminated by the Indian army in India were all terrorists trained by the Pakistan army and sent into India. India begged and appealed and the slaves we are, we even celebrated small victories when the moronic USA "recognized" some group as a terrorist group. They all represent the Pakistan army and islamic extremism. This is a fundamental fact. The US has not figured that out and it is pure imagination to think the US has game plane by going after "Al Qaeda", "Taliban" "Haqqani faction" etc even as they suck up and grovel in front of the Pakistan army whom they need to beg for help.

The CIA has nothing up its sleeve other than a sweaty armpit.

[Suppiah]

An interesting Turkish perspective on TSP

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-10-31

Pakistan is waging its proxy war with India in Afghan territories. But this is a war it cannot win.

Pakistan, ...., so far, has not given any signals that it will get rid of its anachronistic reflexes

Pakistan needs to change course and stop relying on its nuisance value.

au contraire..let them carry on...they are being the biggest nuisance to themselves!

[gakakkad]

Man oh man, looks like Haqqanis are using TSP too to get their aims realized in Afghanistan, and then TSP faces the music . Can't wait for this. Maybe the CIA slime balls are up to something in their negotiations with Haqqani. They give them something to wean them away from ISI?

The last time they attempted negotiations with a terrorist , the guy went in and blew himself up taking a dozen or so CIA slime balls with him... perhaps these slimeballs want a dozen more agents blown up to wean them away from ISI ?

[Altair]

Reminds me of one conversation in a old movie
German: So what is your plan for Vietnam?
American: Plan? We are Americans, We do not make any plans!

[rajanb]

Deleted

[rajanb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/world ... &ref=world

The freedom of movement the Haqqanis enjoy in Pakistan could be witnessed on a sweltering July day last year at a graduation ceremony at one of Pakistan’s largest religious schools, Darul Uloom Haqqania, well known for producing the ranks of the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban.

Among the thousands who had gathered that day in Akora Khattak, just an hour from the capital, were top members of the Haqqani family. The family patriarch, Jalaluddin Haqqani, is a graduate of the school and draws his last name from it.

The Haqqanis stayed for several hours at the event, which was almost certainly monitored by Pakistani intelligence agents, and, after lunch, left in a car with Islamabad license plates.

The Haqqani family, which runs the network like a mafia, maintains several town houses, including in Islamabad and elsewhere, and they have been known to visit military facilities in Rawalpindi, attend tribal gatherings and even travel abroad on pilgrimages, say military and political analysts who follow militant activity in Pakistan.

Among those present at the ceremony was Khalil Haqqani, a brother of Jalaluddin, and an important fund-raiser for the network who travels frequently to the United Arab Emirates. In February he was added to the United Nations Security Council’s sanctions list for having links to Al Qaeda.

[A_Gupta]

Now I know you have mostly contempt for any Indian information, but I ask you to hold your nose, get a barf bag ready and indulge me by reading what I say. India found out that Harkat ul Ansar, Harkat ul Mujahidden, Jaish e Mohammad , Lashkar e Toiba and host of militant groups who had their cadres eliminated by the Indian army in India were all terrorists trained by the Pakistan army and sent into India. India begged and appealed and the slaves we are, we even celebrated small victories when the moronic USA "recognized" some group as a terrorist group. They all represent the Pakistan army and islamic extremism. This is a fundamental fact. The US has not figured that out and it is pure imagination to think the US has game plane by going after "Al Qaeda", "Taliban" "Haqqani faction" etc even as they suck up and grovel in front of the Pakistan army whom they need to beg for help.

The Pakistani army versus Taliban factions fighting that does happen should be interpreted in terms of Musharraf's September 19, 2001 speech, after 9/11:

http://observingliberalpakistan.blogspo ... -2001.html

Read about the treaty of Hudaibiya there.

Selective quoting to make the point:

Pakistan's armed forces and every Pakistani citizen is ready to offer any sacrifice in order to defend Pakistan and secure its strategic assets....For Pakistan, life can be sacrificed and I am sure every Pakistani will give his life for Pakistan.....What I would like to know is how do we save Afghanistan and Taliban. And how do we ensure that they suffer minimum losses:.......Pakistan is considered a fortress of Islam. God forbid, if this fortress is harmed in any way it would cause damage to the cause of Islam.

Any person who was actually listening (BRF was) would wonder why Pakistani lives would be at risk and how they would be at risk if Pakistan supported the US.

Consider the TTP people who are 72'ed as necessary martyrs for the Pakistani cause; they are sacrificed only as necessary to keep the Americans dumb and happy.

[Suppiah]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/285881/lal- ... our-cases/
Check out the comments section.

The only sensible comment is from Supianalla..it even got 5 'Recommend' signs..

[A_Gupta]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/201 ... 320063393/
Decorated Pakistani cop dies in attack

[ramana]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/285881/lal- ... our-cases/
Check out the comments section.

The only sensible comment is from Supianalla..it even got 5 'Recommend' signs..

Posting here to aoivd clicking to the site!

A welcome decision. Hope he gets acquitted on remaining charges too quickly. One look at his pious face in this picture should convince anyone of his innocence….Pakistan army should look at their official moto – ‘Jihad fi sabillilah’ and try to implement it. Instead they are fighting the pious. May Allah’s wrath be upon them.

They need to obey!

[rajanb]

A PAKI RAMBO HAS ARRIVED

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/11 ... &ref=world

Rapper Breaks New Ground in Conservative Pakistan

But hard-core rap like Omar's laced with profanity and sexual innuendo is almost unheard of, and could even be dangerous in a society plagued by Islamist militants.

"Violence seems to be totally acceptable in this culture, but sex and bad language in music and art seems to be totally unacceptable," said Omar, a clean-cut looking 20-year-old with short black hair who favors black sunglasses and T-shirts with half-naked women.

Omar, who sings in English, insists he is not a political rapper, but his latest song, Paki Rambo, is about a vigilante who hunts the Taliban.

"Ambush your camp, my inglorious crew. Straight ********, brawny and stronger than you," sang Omar. "Take classes, learn how we got em on wax. Hit the base with a bag full of Taliban scalps."

The song's title is a reference to a scene in the movie Four Lions, a satirical look at a group of British Muslims of South Asian origin who travel to Pakistan to become suicide bombers. One of the wannabe terrorists records himself on his cell phone firing an AK-47 into the air and calling himself Paki Rambo.

Omar flipped the analogy on its head, making Paki Rambo a character who fights the militants rather than joins them.

"It's the P to the A to the K to the I. Armed to the teeth till the day that I die," sang Omar. "R to the A to the M B O. Paki Rambo in the place."

The song is part of the soundtrack for an upcoming Pakistani movie, Gol Chakkar, and the directors helped Omar produce a slick music video that has been released on YouTube. The video was shot in Islamabad and pokes fun at the decadence and luxury normally seen in American rap videos. The characters drink Pakistani ice cream soda instead of alcohol and snort candy instead of cocaine. A young boy walks around with a mink stole around his neck.

Shiver me salwars as the talibunny said to his AK 47!

[chaanakya]

This is psychological warfare. We have to destroy their last bastion of resistance to the Indic - their sense of racial superiority. But we cannot storm the bastion if we stay on the defensive and keep on speaking against racism in general. Nobody used to listen to Indian PoV on Disarmament until we ourselves went nuclear!

That was interesting exchange on the so called Racial Superiority of Pakistani. There are many layers to it.
1. They feel superior inheriting religious superority of Islam
2. Draw inheritance from Medieval Ruling Class in India
3. Draw inheritance from Arab, persians Afgans etc... who were victors and Indics were vanquished.
4. Draw inheritance from superior central asian or caucasian stock , like being TFTA.
5. Being superior means being more violent than others like in bullying and that is why they take pride in their army, which is nothing more than a thrice defeated army.
6. Being superior means able to fool others , who are perceived to be top Gun in world politics, like they do to Unkil while begging for alms for their hanging to their dear life.
7. Being superior means having no moral compunction in committing theft , of anything, including know how.



The problem is this position is essentially inferior and their feeling of superiority acts as a counterweight to the eternal existential threat they face in view of artificiality of their creation. India would remain their mortal enemy due to this very existential threat they face. 1971 and other wars are self fulling prophecy for them.

And if you take away these layers of defence built around the concept of their being superior , they would crumble like dust.

Their economy is in tatters and that pathetic excuse of a nation is nothing more than pigsty or pack of begging thieves.

[Suppiah]

The yeevil yindoo that I am, just a yeevil thought occurred...

Why don't we facilitate talks with Hakkani with Unkil also in the loop? The deal being Hakkani agrees to work for united Pashtunistan integrated with rest of existing Afghanistan as a Akhand Afghan...and of course, stop targeting Unkil and India in Afghan in return for eternal support, free idli dosa when they visit New Delhi..

Needless to say, they have to make TSPA life miserable which their TTP friends and comrade-in-arms are anyway doing already...

As a bonus they can also help themselves gain access to sea by facilitating the Baloch to be liberated from Pakjabi yoke..

Is someone from Ra(1) listening???

[shiv]

A PAKI RAMBO HAS ARRIVED

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/11 ... &ref=world

Think people.

Why would the New York Times promote a rapper? When was the last time you staid old desis who feel they are one cut above the rest and still buy the New York Times actually pick up the paper to read about the latest in Rap? This is a planted article that indicates the deep links the Pakistani establishment has with lifafa taking editors in the US

You left out the key bit rajanb. This is what the NYT is being used to promote in the eyes of the influential American fuddy-duddies who read the NYT

His rise illustrates a side of Pakistan that is often obscured by the steady stream of news about the Taliban and al-Qaida that comes out of the country. Many Pakistani cities have thriving subcultures that get little attention in the West.

Pakistan has a rich musical tradition, including the performance of Urdu-language love poems called ghazals and mystical Sufi music called Qawwali. Pakistani rock bands have long been popular, as have songs from Bollywood movies.

[atma]

Paki Sesame Street, funded by Unkil, Preaches tolerance

Rani, the new program's star, sports pigtails and a blue and white school uniform. Her innate curiosity is exemplified by the magnifying glass she often carries and her endless stream of questions. She is captain of the school cricket team and plays the harmonium, an instrument used to perform Qawwali music.

The creators chose Rani as the lead character to emphasize the importance of sending girls to school, something that doesn't often happen in Pakistan's conservative, male-dominated society, said Faizaan Peerzada, the chief operating officer of Rafi Peer and one of several family members who run the organization.

"It makes the girl stand equally with the boy, which is very clear," said Peerzada.

Rani and Munna are joined by Baily the donkey, Haseen O Jameel the crocodile, and Baaji, a spirited woman who serves as a mother figure for the others.

Elmo, the lovable, red, child monster, is the only traditional Sesame Street character on the show, which is called Sim Sim Hamara, or Our Sim Sim.

The action centers around a mock-up of a Pakistani town, complete with houses, a school and Baaji's dhaba, a small shop and restaurant found in many places in the country. The town also includes a large Banyan tree, known as the wisdom tree in South Asia, in the shade of which the children often play.

Given the intense ethnic and regional divisions within Pakistan, the creators tried to build a set that was recognizable to Pakistani children but did not stand out as being from one part of the country. For similar reasons, the skin colors of the puppets range from very light brown to orange.

The program will feature holidays celebrated by Muslims, Christians and Hindus in an attempt to get children to respect the traditions of different religious groups in Pakistan, said Peerzada.

The creators realize that there is some risk of militant backlash. Events held by Rafi Peer have been attacked several times in the past, including a world arts festival in 2008 that was hit by three small bomb blasts that wounded at least half a dozen people.

"We can't just stop because of this fear," said Faizaan Peerzad

Haraam! Wajib ul cattle onlee

More with pictures of Rani et al:

http://news.yahoo.com/pakistani-sesame- ... 57840.html

[arun]

The 'resilient' Pakistani economy does not need IMF loans : TSP FM

Pakistani Finance Minister Abdul Hafeez Shaikh told the daily that the IMF conditions were too tough and the government would instead pursue a home-grown reform program, adding that the "resilient" economy did not need IMF help.

The IMF forecasts Pakistan to post growth of just 2.6 percent in 2011, among the lowest in Asia, while inflation is tipped to stand at around 14 percent this year and next -- among the highest in the world.

Even as the Finance Minister in public is trumpeting that the “"resilient" economy did not need IMF help”, in the typical two faced manner prevalent in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the Express Tribune in an article also datelined November 1st has reported that privately the same Finance Minister had the begging bowl very firmly thrust out towards the IMF .

Taqiyya / taqiyyah in full flow :

Looking for IMF help, Pakistan approaches US

[A_Gupta]

Think people.

Why would the New York Times promote a rapper? When was the last time you staid old desis who feel they are one cut above the rest and still buy the New York Times actually pick up the paper to read about the latest in Rap? This is a planted article that indicates the deep links the Pakistani establishment has with lifafa taking editors in the US

As one of those staid old desis who still buys the NYT (but I don't think I'm one cut above anybody), I'll note that the NYT story did note:

The market for Omar's music in Pakistan is small, limited mainly to elite Pakistani kids like himself who speak English and live lifestyles closer to their Western counterparts than the country's conservative majority. Extremists who believe music is a violation of Islamic law have bombed CD shops in some parts of Pakistan.

Also, the author Sebastian Abbot had this tweet on October 21:

Was theme of Clinton's town hall in Islamabad "Clinton meets with foreign-educated Pakistanis who have worked on US development projects"?

Here's another story from him:
Rare moment of levity in US-Pakistan relationship
http://news.yahoo.com/rare-moment-levit ... 10535.html

[rajanb]

A PAKI RAMBO HAS ARRIVED

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/11 ... &ref=world

Think people.

Why would the New York Times promote a rapper? When was the last time you staid old desis who feel they are one cut above the rest and still buy the New York Times actually pick up the paper to read about the latest in Rap? This is a planted article that indicates the deep links the Pakistani establishment has with lifafa taking editors in the US

You left out the key bit rajanb. This is what the NYT is being used to promote in the eyes of the influential American fuddy-duddies who read the NYT

His rise illustrates a side of Pakistan that is often obscured by the steady stream of news about the Taliban and al-Qaida that comes out of the country. Many Pakistani cities have thriving subcultures that get little attention in the West.

Pakistan has a rich musical tradition, including the performance of Urdu-language love poems called ghazals and mystical Sufi music called Qawwali. Pakistani rock bands have long been popular, as have songs from Bollywood movies.

Doc, I was sure you would quote what I didn't quote.

The reason that I did not quote those bits because Pakistan wasn't an entity to be able to claim that tradition. The only trad they have is double speak, begging and losing wars.

But I do understand what this kid is doing will give indigestion to the Talibunnies and the mullahs. Besides, I do not like rap (am a smooth jazz fan) but the lyrics are something else for the purest of the pure to accept!

[Pranay]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/world ... =2&_r=1&hp

The Pakistani Establishment, The Haqqanis & The US...

Most of the recent suicide attacks in Pakistan have been attributed to the Pakistani Taliban, who share the Haqqanis’ stronghold in North Waziristan. The Pakistani Taliban and the Haqqanis help each other with money, intelligence and suicide bombers.

Some in the Pakistani military have acknowledged this merging of insurgent groups, yet the policy of support for the Haqqanis is unchanged. “We know that the Haqqanis are playing a double game,” a Pakistani military official in North Waziristan said last year. “We support them and they support our enemies, the TTP,” as the Pakistani Taliban are known.

But then, American intelligence officials and numerous observers have long suspected that Pakistan’s intelligence agency has played a double game, too. Though the full substance of the talks between American and Pakistani leaders during the Clinton visit was not revealed, “it looks less and less likely now that Pakistan is going to take any serious action against the Haqqanis,” Mehreen Zahra-Malik, an editor at The News International, Pakistan’s largest English-language newspaper, wrote in an e-mail.

Rather than respond to American demands, “as the pressure has built like never before, establishment circles have come pretty close to admitting the Haqqanis are assets, even if it’s couched in the language of ‘They’re very important for talks,’ ” Ms. Zahra-Malik wrote.

The reason the Pakistani military would take no action against the Haqqanis was simple, she added with a capital-letter emphasis that paraphrased the generals’ thinking. “The bottom line is: WE NEED THEM.”

[arun]

X Posted from India / Afghanistan – A New Strategic Relationship thread.

India's Track 3: Afghan-Iran rail link

This Hindustan Times report that “ India is finalising a plan to construct a 900-km railway line that will connect Chabahar port in Iran, being built with Indian help, to the mineral-rich Hajigak region of Afghanistan.” should certainly aggravate the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

[arun]

Anatol Lieven in an Op-Ed in the New York Times:

“If Washington wishes to improve relations with Pakistan, it needs to stop regarding Pakistan as an ally, and to start regarding it as an enemy”

Read it all:

With a Friend Like This

[A_Gupta]

Anatol Lieven:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/opini ... .html?_r=2

If Washington wishes to improve relations with Pakistan, it needs to stop regarding Pakistan as an ally, and to start regarding it as an enemy — at least as far as the Afghan War is concerned.

Seeing Pakistan as an ally has not only obscured the reality of the situation, but has bred exaggerated bitterness at Pakistani “treachery.” And since Pakistanis also believe that America has “betrayed” them, the result is a thin veneer of friendship over a morass of mutual distrust and even hatred.

It would be far better from every point of view to admit that the two countries’ policies over Afghanistan are opposed to the point of limited conflict — and then seek ways to negotiate an end to that conflict.

When given for geopolitical reasons, however, aid may more closely resemble the subsidies paid by empires of the past to nomadic kingdoms beyond their frontiers.

I don’t suppose that anyone in Constantinople or Chang’an believed that these subsidies ever bought real loyalty; they just bought off some of the raids that would otherwise have occurred. Americans might see this as humiliating, but if you can no longer be Rome, Byzantium isn’t a bad second best.

Instead of pushing at a Pakistani door that will never open, the Obama administration instead should treat Pakistan as a sponsor of the Taliban and on that basis involve Pakistan in talks on Afghanistan.

An essential part of such negotiations should be to force both Pakistan and the United States to place on the table their own terms for an Afghan settlement and their minimum conditions as far as their own interests are concerned. On that basis, and on that basis alone, it may be possible for these two de facto enemies to make peace with each other. If that is not possible, at least the U.S. will be clearer about the realities of the Afghan War.

[Cosmo_R]

"Pakistan’s biggest nightmare is a strong, centralized, nationalist Afghan state — just the kind the Americans have been striving to create. Such an Afghanistan, Pakistani leaders fear, will lay claim to the Pashtun areas that straddle a border that was drawn carelessly by the British and that Afghanistan has never fully accepted. They also fear that the Pashtuns might someday want a nation of their own. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/world ... wanted=all

This simple message should be repeated over and over again. To Pakistan, all neighbors are an existential threat. This is not about 'strategic depth' nonsense.

First time any NYT reporter has come out and laid it bare.

[ramana]

Lot of oxymorons in that NYT article. US is not trying to create a natioinalist state in Afghanistan. Its trying to create a stable regime.
BTW, the number of Pashtuns in TSP is greater than in Afghanistan. The Durand line separates them. Durand Line was for 99 years and that treaty expired in 1992. Afghanistan derecognized the Durand Line in 1947 after the British left.

These pet snakes(terrorist groups) that TSP nurtures are to kill/modify the Pashtun nationalism from developing by channeling the snakes everywhere as cannon fodder.

[A_Gupta]

Pakistan is utterly devoid of any positive vision. In a SAFTA that was like the European Union, national boundaries wouldn't matter so much, with easy travel across the borders, etc. The fact of Pashtun division across the borders wouldn't matter, etc. etc. I don't need to spell it all out. What this requires is abandonment of the 19th century view of nationalism, religion, etc., (and Pakistan is trying to move back even earlier in time), and healthy cooperation (yes, I know it will never happen) with its neighbors. The problem is that they simply cannot accept that the philosophical underpinnings of such a regional set-up need to be secular and liberal; instead they insist on the special place for Islam, and that too, of the most extreme kind. The 180 million people of Pakistan, by-and-large, are holding back the 1.4 billion people of South Asia. (What about the Afghans? Despite all the jihad over there, I have a feeling that they can adapt easier than Pakistanis to this secular, liberal modernity, not being prone to an identity crisis.)

[JwalaMukhi]

A PAKI RAMBO HAS ARRIVED

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/11 ... &ref=world

Think people.

Why would the New York Times promote a rapper? When was the last time you staid old desis who feel they are one cut above the rest and still buy the New York Times actually pick up the paper to read about the latest in Rap? This is a planted article that indicates the deep links the Pakistani establishment has with lifafa taking editors in the US

You left out the key bit rajanb. This is what the NYT is being used to promote in the eyes of the influential American fuddy-duddies who read the NYT

His rise illustrates a side of Pakistan that is often obscured by the steady stream of news about the Taliban and al-Qaida that comes out of the country. Many Pakistani cities have thriving subcultures that get little attention in the West.

Pakistan has a rich musical tradition, including the performance of Urdu-language love poems called ghazals and mystical Sufi music called Qawwali. Pakistani rock bands have long been popular, as have songs from Bollywood movies.

Another paki Fanboy to watch out.. is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fergus_Nicoll
Interestingly he claims to have a degree in sanskrit from oxphord. Yessire, these are guys who are putting lipstick sheen on porkistan sh1t. Guys like him are indoctrinated in ukstan and the cousins across the pond namely unkil such as New York Times buy into such themes by design. Unkilland has outsourced its thinking to their "cousins" across the pond. Anyway, here is one of his program in community outreach, trying to talk about pakistani culture for all the unwashed amirkhans...
http://www.wrvo.org/post/community-foru ... e-pakistan