Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

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Satya_anveshi
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2011 01:48

gee...quoting my own post:

Satya_anveshi wrote:Funny thing about Imran planning to run on anti-corruption plank showcasing his "clean" image is he needs to give tickets to those with at least a semblance of "clean" image. There are 342 seats in Paki National Assembly. Even if he gets 60 super clean women (one of them he already picked in madam jalebi) and 10 minorities, how the hell is he going to get other 271 (excluding himself) clean, dried in the wool paki men to contest? Knowing that there aren't *any* clean paki men, won't the opposition make the mince meat of them in public.

It is another matter that Imran himself was providing suggestions to his close relative to bet in a certain way in cricket on the condition that if his relative wins he should clear his party's debt :rotfl:. This is per his own account in his book :lol:.


Imran Khan’s nemesis: The Parliamentary system

However, unlike the Presidential form of government, in the Parliamentary System it is rarely ever enough to be a popular leader with mass appealing ideals to secure a position as the country’s Premier. The onus of electing the Prime Minister lies with the members of the National Assembly, who in turn are themselves elected by a popular vote from different constituencies in the country. Hence, one man’s ideals and leadership need to be transformed into that of a group strong enough to project the same at the grass root electoral level. Quite literally put, Imran Khan will need to put together a squad strong enough and big enough to capture a majority of the 272 directly elected seats in the NA to translate his support to votes.

The conundrum for Imran though lies in that most of the established names in Pakistani politics are tried and tested representatives who have failed their public. More worrisome is the fact that those amongst them who pass his selection criteria are even far and few. Hence we might be left with PTI’s most viable, and possibly only option; put up candidates – albeit free of corruption, as unknown commodities, and hope that come election day, the voters can turn a blind eye to the names and stamp the ‘chiragh’ (lamp) in support of who they consider their actual leader i.e. Imran Khan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Prem » 04 Nov 2011 01:58

IF trade etc goes on improving average Poakfool"s life then one way to control the behavior of ISI/PA Poakroches is to do economic , diplomatic or Eigher Sanction on individuals or group. USA and UNO have already set the precedence in this regard. Poaks should keep in their little mind that Indics' economic, diplomatic and military clout is going to be on Northern trajectory in the near future of next 1000 plus years. I already hear a great sucking, churnning sound in Hannood Ocean chewing and spitting out the poixonous seeds of PSP= Previous State of Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 04 Nov 2011 04:54

As trade pick up, head of India's major corporate houses should work in tandem with GOI. Unlike GOI, those individuals can act with a lot of independence; Suppose they turn around and "auction" off Sindh territory to the most desirable paki, dealing with him exclusively with respect to goods/services originating in Sindh, similarly to different districts in Punjab, and so on. Build up unofficial satraps in paki territory and economically balkanize the entire country. Greed will do to the paki army what nothing else has (including the US & NATO) :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby member_20018 » 04 Nov 2011 06:48

I agree. The finishing of the Pakistani as enemy cannot be done via invasion.

It has to be done in the style of the Marshall Plan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Nov 2011 06:53

houstonrice wrote:I agree. The finishing of the Pakistani as enemy cannot be done via invasion.

It has to be done in the style of the Marshall Plan.


Don't worry, send money :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Suppiah » 04 Nov 2011 07:04

^^ Canadian joke


what a way to start the day... :rotfl: :rotfl:

Fellow is not being apologetic at all...

but we know, of course, that in Pakistan there are a large number of terrorists, so that's the joke


So it is based on FACT. Like I said, it is getting etched into the DNAs of Americans including now, Canadians...repeat after me PAKBARIANS == TERRORISTS.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 04 Nov 2011 07:04

houstonrice wrote:I agree. The finishing of the Pakistani as enemy cannot be done via invasion.

It has to be done in the style of the Marshall Plan.


Under no circumstances will we give a dime to the paki for nothing. India should, and will get them to where they will sell everything they own and their mother, then buy them out of all that constitutes the paki. India will get back what is hers by buying it back, and letting the pakis squander what ever they get by selling their assets in India. In the meantime, it was not a bad idea to abstain from objecting to the higher quota or whatever they wanted in EU trade concessions for this MFN. Best to keep the paki at the level of producing and selling towels and bed clothes. They should not aspire for anything better, and if they do, they should be actively discouraged through trade policies to stay at the level of trading their towel/bed clothes level of technology until they have nothing left of any value to sell to maintain the life they have grown accustomed to (eating meat, eg. :twisted:)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby sum » 04 Nov 2011 08:51

Notice how he is celebrating the Paki 'success' without even putting up some fake explanation as to why India is affected but should not worry..this has become brazen these days - as long as PRC benefits, it does not matter if Indian interests suffer, it is something to be celebrated..

MKB is truely a piece of work..

He was on Times Now 2 days back and was behaving more patriotically than even a Chinese ambassador to India. He was adamant that China is not involved in any Indian matters/insurgencies and the IB report on chinese activities in India TimesNow was showing was a low level doc which couldn't be trusted since he also used to get lots of such reports and he knows which is good and which is bad etc.

When Arnab and Maroof Raza called him pro-China and the PMO a bit weak when it comes to TSP/China, he started on whether that means MMS is a traitor since he has followed peaceful approach to TSP and China and he has all resources at hand before taking such a choice etc.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Pranav » 04 Nov 2011 08:53

ramana wrote:Maybe something to what you say. Most likely Imran Khan is being readied as alternate leader once the mess hits the fan and will be presented as en-mo, brand new Pak leader to replace 10% and band rolls on.


Imran Khan seems more of a TSP Army candidate than a Zardari/BB style one. Yes, he has an elite ex-wife, but he generally pushes a line that resonates with the traditional Pakjab-based Masjid-Military lobby.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2011 09:17

One perspective is that Imran Khan's popularity is like that of Herman Cain's as a republican presidential candidate in US. Both are being pumped up and IMO that much harder are they going to fall as both are punching way beyond their weight although Herman Cain's case is much funnier. Like doc ji sometimes says..I bet my left testimonial if Herman Cain even gets the repub nomination let along winning the race and the right testimonial if Imran wins in a free and fair elections.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby SSridhar » 04 Nov 2011 09:29

Pranav wrote:
ramana wrote:Maybe something to what you say. Most likely Imran Khan is being readied as alternate leader once the mess hits the fan and will be presented as en-mo, brand new Pak leader to replace 10% and band rolls on.


Imran Khan seems more of a TSP Army candidate than a Zardari/BB style one. Yes, he has an elite ex-wife, but he generally pushes a line that resonates with the traditional Pakjab-based Masjid-Military lobby.

He is no doubt the TSPA candidate. The point to note is that after Mawdudi died, the JI passed on to Pashtun hands. The other significant Islamist Deobandi organization, Jama'at-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) has always been a Pashtun-based organization. After Bear Trap was launched, these two gained immense prominence among the masses and the Establishment alike and have not looked back since then. It will be in the fitness of things if a Pashtun becomes the Prime Minister, the first ever, when the PA wholeheartedly subscribes to the JI/JUI brands of Islamism. The PA may also think, among other things such as running out of options for PA-pasand candidates, that a thorn needs another thorn to be fleshed out.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Prem » 04 Nov 2011 09:58

Faint Hope for Pakistan?
Walter Russell Mead's Blog
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -pakistan/

Good news from Pakistan has been hard to come by over the past few years, but perhaps that is finally beginning to change. Although it will not end the decades-long nuclear standoff between the two countries, Pakistan’s decision to grant Most Favored Nation status to India is a small, symbolic but possibly significant step away from one of the world’s oldest and most toxic conflicts. The Washington Post reports:
The decision by the Pakistani military to drop its long-standing objection to closer trade ties with India was interpreted partly as a reflection of the parlous state of Pakistan’s economy and as a measure to counter Islamabad’s increasing diplomatic isolation. [...]But there is little doubt that the atmospherics between the South Asian neighbors have improved since their foreign ministers promised a new era of more stable relations at a meeting in New Delhi in July. [...]Islamabad has looked increasingly isolated in recent months, its relations deteriorating with the United States and souring with its western neighbor Afghanistan. In that context, acrimonious relations with India have seemed less attractive.“Pakistan’s strained ties with the United States has pushed it to look for more foreign policy options, to go for increasing ties with friendly states in the neighborhood like China, and also to improve the relations with nuclear neighbor India,” said Hasan-Askari Rizvi, a Pakistani political and defense analyst.Perhaps something good will come out of the US-Pakistan rift after all. The long unraveling of America and Pakistan’s strategic alliance has sent Pakistan’s always-chaotic foreign policy to a new low point — Pakistan is now weaker than all of its foes and without friends in its neighborhood. Years of self-destructive and unpredictable policies have left Pakistan in a tenuous position, and the deterioration of the relationship with its most powerful ally has left it exposed.Could all this bad news be causing second thoughts in the Pakistani security establishment? Pakistan has a penchant for disappointing expectations, but even a faint hope for improvement is better than nothing. And something else to ponder: the positive turn suggests that tough love from the US may help Pakistan more than lavish aid.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby RajeshA » 04 Nov 2011 10:06

I think there should be a concerted effort to portray Imran Khan as a plant of the West, especially Britain, in Pakistan. Secondly he should be portrayed as another way for the Army to keep control over the affairs of the State.

It seems all three constituencies are aligning for him - Allah, Army and America Britain!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2011 10:08

You cannot become any kind of leader in Pakistan without saying you support the separation of Kashmir from India. Even if J&K becomes like Singapore and Switzerland combined and Pakistan remains a dung heap, Pakis will have to say that because this is a mental problem.

That apart, no civilian Pakistani leader can hope to stay anywhere near a position of power without bowing towards Kashmir and praying, with asses pointing at Mecca, because the Pakistan army wants to face India in the east while their asses too point at Mecca. Basically "Pakistani civilian leader"= "Leader who is in the good books of the Pakhana Army"

As far as i am concerned, this has been a constant for many decades. So what has changed? What has changed is the population, the capacity of Pakistan to provide services for its large population (like water supply and electricity and even food and fuel). The latter factors did not matter much. Populations survive on their own. The government does not have to supply anything. Populations survived before governments and in the absence of government.

The only question to my mind is "How can the government survive". In Pakistan the Pakhana army is the government. The Pakhana army has been supported by the USA. How much longer is the US going to support that government? If that government falls, th population will survive, but they population will govern itself along existing political and ethnic lines. Paskhtunistan must become reality.

A closing thought. Would Pakistan manage to survive with a very small Afghanistan by annexing the entire Pakhtoon region to become part of Pakistan? Would Pakjabis then be able to dominate the Pashtuns they way they dominate Baluchis and Sindhis?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby abhijitm » 04 Nov 2011 10:15

No MFN status yet
The Foreign Office on Thursday tried to clear the air about the ‘most favoured nation’ (MFN) status for India, saying the federal cabinet had only agreed to the proposal ‘in principle’ and a decision would be taken after consultations between the commerce ministries of the two countries.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby RajeshA » 04 Nov 2011 10:28

I think it is okay if we wish for the Pushtuns to extend their power all the way down to the borders of Pakjab. But if they do it beyond those borders, then that too becomes an anathema to India. Pakjab should serve as a strong buffer between India and the Pushtuns, and it should not fall to the Pushtuns.

The way Pakistan is constructed now, or how it could be if all the Pushtun areas in Afghanistan also come under the sway of Pakistan, it is internally a tug-of-war between Pushtun and Pakjabi with both swearing to Islam, rabid anti-Indianism, some anti-Westernism and tentatively agreeing on the supremacy of the Army and making that as the glue to keep the country together.

That internal tug-of-war however is manifesting outwards and creating some very negative effects on India, and increasingly the West as well.

This makes Pakistan's internal tug-of-war a "global" problem!

If we want to put a stop to this menace, it is very important that we separate the Pushtun from the Pakjabi in a clear-cut Partition. Only that would ensure that there is no need for some umbrella ideology called Pakistaniyat in its more benign avatar and Jihad in its more potent form.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2011 10:36



Good video series. Thanks.The video seems to have the blessing of the US establishment and clearly spells out how helpless the US and the West are.

One possibility that arises is that the West will be happy to see the rise of a powerful, if stable Pakistan, nuclear armed, member of the expanded UN P-9 or P-10 or whatever, helping to "shape" the subcontinent of the future as military leader of the Islamic nations, with tacit Western support to prevent the destabilization of the military government of Pakistan.

India may have to bow its head and accept this. We will not be able to destablilze or defeat a Pakistan that is helped even more by a declining West to keep things stable and safe for them. Our lack of safety and security has never concerned the West. Time will tell which way the West will tilt.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Dipanker » 04 Nov 2011 10:58

Question is will USA/West still be paying billions of $$ to the Paki as jizziya after they have "withdrawn" from Afghanistan?

I am betting that they won't, and China alone will not be able to pull the Paki out of the gutter. In the event of USA/West not sorting out the problem that Pakistan is, and by all indications that is how things are likely to pan out, India's best hope will be that USA/West stops paying jizziya to Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby RajeshA » 04 Nov 2011 11:03

Dipanker ji,

Most likely they will continue to pay this jiziya, simply to get the Pakistani authorities to assist the Western intelligence agencies in tracking all the potential trouble-makers. How else are the Western agencies going to keep ahead of all the terrorist threats?

They can throw out all the potential terrorists from West, which would be a lot of Muslims! But as of now, the West does not really know how to do that legally, without compromising on their constitutional value-set; who will accept these Islamists; and once they start doing it, how much all of that could explode in their faces!

So more jiziya!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 04 Nov 2011 11:15

shiv wrote:You cannot become any kind of leader in Pakistan without saying you support the separation of Kashmir from India. Even if J&K becomes like Singapore and Switzerland combined and Pakistan remains a dung heap, Pakis will have to say that because this is a mental problem.

That apart, no civilian Pakistani leader can hope to stay anywhere near a position of power without bowing towards Kashmir and praying, with asses pointing at Mecca, because the Pakistan army wants to face India in the east while their asses too point at Mecca. Basically "Pakistani civilian leader"= "Leader who is in the good books of the Pakhana Army"

As far as i am concerned, this has been a constant for many decades. So what has changed? What has changed is the population, the capacity of Pakistan to provide services for its large population (like water supply and electricity and even food and fuel). The latter factors did not matter much. Populations survive on their own. The government does not have to supply anything. Populations survived before governments and in the absence of government.

The only question to my mind is "How can the government survive". In Pakistan the Pakhana army is the government. The Pakhana army has been supported by the USA. How much longer is the US going to support that government? If that government falls, th population will survive, but they population will govern itself along existing political and ethnic lines. Paskhtunistan must become reality.

A closing thought. Would Pakistan manage to survive with a very small Afghanistan by annexing the entire Pakhtoon region to become part of Pakistan? Would Pakjabis then be able to dominate the Pashtuns they way they dominate Baluchis and Sindhis?

Shiv ji:
Your comments bring to mind what my brother, the doctor, was fond of saying - "kids grow up whether you do anything or not", well, in that vein, populations also survive whether there is a government to help them survive or not. So, the paki people will find ways to survive - though it might be more Darwinian than any civilized person may want to witness. As to whether the paki will have the ability to swallow Pakhtoon lands whole - if it came to that, and knowing the punjabi mussalman as I do, I would bet on the reverse, the pakhtoons swallowing the paki whole. Their brutal tactics will cause the kind of panic those pakjabi mussalmans have not experienced since 1947 in east Punjab cities. The pathans always had nothing but contempt for punjabi muslims(pathan foot soldier to pakjabi general:"you have never won a war, and we have never lost one"-anti soviet jehad, 1980s). The sikhs - now that is a whole different matter, and with very good causes that were enumerated a few pages back. Anyway, I cannot see the pakjabi army actually taking all pakhtoon lands by force. More likely that the paki population, in the brutal process of survival, will lead paki lands to anarchy, with masses of their inhabitants heading east as refugees, maybe with the looting, maurading pathans in hot pursuit.. Tough call then, on the borders. India better be prepared - particularly the BSF and assorted forces responsible for border security. It will be more than two guys on a camel requiring to be shot.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 04 Nov 2011 11:42

shiv ji:

No matter the size of jazia payments, no amount can make the paki a strong, stable State. It is not in the paki's genes - or conversely, it is in its genes to be loot, rape, pillage, live for nothing pasand. Unless the west is prepared to pay out the net amount of the paki's GDP, and even then, the paki will demand more. No, the logical progression of the paki is towards anarchy. Unavoidable and inexorably so. Matter of time.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Philip » 04 Nov 2011 11:53

MKB has nailed his colours to the mast.His Q,to the other panelists whether Maun Mouse Singh was a "traitor" for going soft on Pak and China ,indicates his own personal stance as well.

We've gone over this for decades now,and the simple truth is as long as the Paki military runs the country,do not expect any non-interfernce in Indian affairs,it is impossible.Even if Pak is drowning and has only one breath left in which to save itself or do untold damage to India,it will choose the latter option.Watch what will happen to trade between both nations.Once it begins and begins to flourish,the demands from the Paki side for preferential treatment to the disadvantage of Indian industry will be identical to game that they've been playing for decades over Kashmir.One must also here note that most of the key industries in Pak are run by the Paki army! They will see to it that trade will gvie them another knife with which to stab India in the back.Relations will improve only when a genuine democratically elected political leadership emerges in pak,where the army behaves non-politically.This calls for wisdom and statesmanship at the highest levels in the Paki uniformed tribes and searching for it is the equivalent of finding a specific grain of sand on the beach!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Altair » 04 Nov 2011 12:30

There are people in the GOTUS including in the office of POTUS who have tasted the bitter pill of TSP treachery in the past few months. As usual there is a conflict of interest as to how to deal with TSPA. There is one significant difference between US and India. The people who influence the policy in US towards Pakistan care about only US interests and not appeasement of India or China. There is one undeniable conclusion which they have arrived. Haqqani network is both near term and long term threat to US.They will find a way to eliminate that threat without causing collateral damage to their ally, Pakistan. If they cannot find one they will still go ahead and eliminate Haqqanis and deal with the consequences later. May be offer a squadron of F-22's and a civilian nuke deal to shut'em up.

One way or the other there will be a relentless campaign by the Obama Administration to eliminate the Haqqani threat. Because if he fails to do so and there is an attack on US, Obama will go down in history as a failed BLACK leader who could not do what was needed to protect the American people. That is clearly not his intention. Hence, a blitz attack on Haqqanis is in the horizon and there is no where they can escape.

Pakistan in the meanwhile is looking for a way out to deal with the aftermath. You will see Pakistan distancing themselves from Haqqanis and creating a major diversion in the next few weeks if not days. The idea will be to avoid H&D damage to TSP Army and live to fight another day. Saas has given time to prepare for aftermath. Prepare a new phoren educated civilian face for the TSP Army. If Imran Khan fits the description, He will be propped up in the next few days. He will be talking "sacrifices of TSP Army", "self-determination of Kashmiris" yada yada and all cliched macho terms used by TSPA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Philip » 04 Nov 2011 13:27

Alt.I've posted in the Iran thread how pak has been gvien a windof of opportunity by Uncle Sam,to cooperate in bringing down Iran's N-capability-which will please nuclear Pak who do not want another Shiite Muslim rival in the region,which is also a key goal of Pak's godfather,the Saudis.Hillary C has been stranegly ambivalent in her statements about Pak.This explains why.The US still has much use of its favoutrie rent-boy!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby sum » 04 Nov 2011 13:42

Paki being, well, a Paki:

Jailed Mohammad Amir blames PCB for lack of education

Pakistan fast bowler Mohammad Amir, jailed for six months on Thursday for his involvement in cricket's spot-fixing scandal, has blamed the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) for not educating players enough.
Click here!

"I was not given enough information about the anti-corruption code by the PCB," Amir told Geo News Channel in London [ Images ] shortly after having his bail application rejected.

The 19-year old criticised his former captain Salman Butt [ Images ] and team mate Mohammad Asif [ Images ], also both jailed on Thursday for their involvement in spot-fixing, for slandering him during the trial.

"They tried to rubbish my reputation and name during the trial and when the time comes I will reveal everything about this case," Amir said.

"I am really sorry for what has happened and I regret what I have done. I apologise to the Pakistani people for my actions.

So, the great mahatma would have realised that taking money for spot-fixing was a crime if he had been "educated" well by PCB and till then was under the impression that it was a part of normal cricket.

Pakis and their new depths of Lahori logic!! :-? :roll: :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Lalmohan » 04 Nov 2011 13:58

i finally watched BBC's "Secret pakistan" last night - good programmes. ofcourse, absolutely nothing new for BRF'ites - but good that the story is being told so openly and clearly. the only new bit of info for me was that mushy's would be assassins were hanged. the question that is brewing in my mind is - when do the afghan talibs and the pakistani talibs become one and the same... perhaps all that we are gearing up for is a pashtun-punjabi internecine jihad, with the faujis taking sides or getting killed off. the outcome for pakistan as it exists today is looking bleaker by the second...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby JE Menon » 04 Nov 2011 14:03

>>when the time comes I will reveal everything about this case

One would think the time had come when he was in the dock and facing a juvenile detention sentence, the moron. When would be more opportune? After a haircut maybe?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Pratyush » 04 Nov 2011 14:08

Sum Ji,

Just a minor correction, Pakis and new heights of Lahori Logic. Rather then the new lows. :P

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Altair » 04 Nov 2011 14:14

Philip wrote:Alt.I've posted in the Iran thread how pak has been gvien a windof of opportunity by Uncle Sam,to cooperate in bringing down Iran's N-capability-which will please nuclear Pak who do not want another Shiite Muslim rival in the region,which is also a key goal of Pak's godfather,the Saudis.Hillary C has been stranegly ambivalent in her statements about Pak.This explains why.The US still has much use of its favoutrie rent-boy!


There was never any debate that there is still much use of their favorite rent boy.

Now lets list up what US wants from Pakistan
1. Support any attack on Iran.
2. Keep the mouth shut in any attack on Haqqanis.
3. Keep the Chinese out in any way they can.

In return:
1. We will keep India out of Afghanistan?
2. Kashmir?
3. Billions of dollars in aid?
4. Nuke deal and f-22's?

I mean the list goes on!
What if India is adamant and does not want to go out of Afghanistan and will not dilute Kashmir position. The remaining Billions in aid and advanced weapons are the only stuff remaining on table. That is again what they have been doing for the past 60 years!
Iran is not a banana republic like Libya and Panama. They are very passionate people and love their country and culture more than they love their religion. An attack on Iran will turn this world upside down. I paid Rs.80/- for a liter of petrol today. May be 200/- Rs a liter is not too far in future.
So, Will Pakistan continue to be a leech on Unkils ass for the next decade?
Or will the attack on Haqqanis collapse the paki state? Only time will tell.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2011 16:11

parsuram wrote:Your comments bring to mind what my brother, the doctor, was fond of saying - "kids grow up whether you do anything or not", well, in that vein, populations also survive whether there is a government to help them survive or not. So, the paki people will find ways to survive - though it might be more Darwinian than any civilized person may want to witness. As to whether the paki will have the ability to swallow Pakhtoon lands whole - if it came to that, and knowing the punjabi mussalman as I do, I would bet on the reverse, the pakhtoons swallowing the paki whole. Their brutal tactics will cause the kind of panic those pakjabi mussalmans have not experienced since 1947 in east Punjab cities. The pathans always had nothing but contempt for punjabi muslims(pathan foot soldier to pakjabi general:"you have never won a war, and we have never lost one"-anti soviet jehad, 1980s). The sikhs - now that is a whole different matter, and with very good causes that were enumerated a few pages back. Anyway, I cannot see the pakjabi army actually taking all pakhtoon lands by force. More likely that the paki population, in the brutal process of survival, will lead paki lands to anarchy, with masses of their inhabitants heading east as refugees, maybe with the looting, maurading pathans in hot pursuit.. Tough call then, on the borders. India better be prepared - particularly the BSF and assorted forces responsible for border security. It will be more than two guys on a camel requiring to be shot.


Interesting post. Absolutely no quibbles whatsoever. In fact that would explain the brutaliy with which the Paki army treats the Taliban who oppose them, And the US is helping them do that by keeping the Paki army healthy and well armed. That Pakis are pulling a fast one on the Pashtuns, telling them that the US wants to dominate them, and in doing so the Pakis are themselves dominating the Pashtuns with US aid.

If we look at the historic relationship between India, the area that is Pakistan, and Afghanistan, you find that when Afghanistan was being attacked, India was the strategic depth, and the option of retreating into what is India was always available in case of Pashtun counter attack.

The Paki military wanted to use Pakistan as base and try and use Afghanistan as strategic depth. In fact the five rivers are the physical boundary that invaders have to cross. Once those five rives are crossed and the defenders on the east of those rivers is defeated - the plains all the way up to Bihar can be overrun without any major geographical hurdle to cross. Pakistan holds only a thin strip of land east of the river. If they can conquer the plains of India they would have a great time. But if they fail and are pushed by by India they have nowhere to run. That is why they wanted Afghanistan.

But if the Pashtuns attack them they cannot run beyond the thin strip they hold on the east of the Indus. They will be running into waiting, loaded and cocked Indian "arms" Having tried and failed to conquer parts of India they were looking for security in the north west and managed to con the US into believing that they were sincere. The will be brutal with Pashtuns who oppose them as long as their "strategic depth" is America - with the US funding and arming them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Kashi » 04 Nov 2011 16:28

parsuram wrote:(pathan foot soldier to pakjabi general:"you have never won a war, and we have never lost one"-anti soviet jehad, 1980s).


Not to nitpick on such a fine post, but didn't the Pathans have their collective arses handed to them by the Indian army in Kashmir war of 1947-48, before Nehruvian mother of all blunders?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby CRamS » 04 Nov 2011 17:30

Altair wrote:
Iran is not a banana republic like Libya and Panama. They are very passionate people and love their country and culture more than they love their religion. An attack on Iran will turn this world upside down. I paid Rs.80/- for a liter of petrol today. May be 200/- Rs a liter is not too far in future.
So, Will Pakistan continue to be a leech on Unkils ass for the next decade?
Or will the attack on Haqqanis collapse the paki state? Only time will tell.


Not the Iran thread, but what you say above is false, and reflects a poor understanding of US's attempts to make Iran a eunuch country. Like TFTA Pakijabis with whom the whites have a love-fest and prop them, Iran too has a significant TFTA elite who consider themselves as part of the west. The difference in US policies towards Iran and TSP lies in the fact that while US needs Pakijabis to be eunuchs when it comes to whites, it needs to prop up Pakijabis with military toys to keep us SDREs in check. In the case of Iran, it has to be rendered a complete eunuch lest it pose any threat to Israel.

Of course, Iran also has a section of its people, who as you say above, are proud nationalists, clowns like Ahmadinejad notwithstanding. US is trying to isolate this section and brings its puppets into power in a blood-less revolution; I am not sure US would like to slaughter pro-US TFTA Iranians by bombing Iranians as it did with impunity slaughtering black Libyans (or Iraqis earlier).

But make no mistake about it, should push comes to shove, and US/Israel decide to bomb Iran from the air, the pro-west TFTA Iranians will behave no differently than the so called "Libyan rebels" or "freedom fighters". As an aside, like my man Christopher Hitchens disappointed me by casting the gang rape of Iraq as helping bring democracy to Iraq, likewise, my man french intellectual Bernard Henry Levy (who tells it like it is on TSPA/ISI) farts from his backside casting the Libyan thugs who were in cahoots with the NATO gangsters as "democrats".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Altair » 04 Nov 2011 18:08

CRamS wrote: The difference in US policies towards Iran and TSP lies in the fact that while US needs Pakijabis to be eunuchs when it comes to whites, it needs to prop up Pakijabis with military toys to keep us SDREs in check. In the case of Iran, it has to be rendered a complete eunuch lest it pose any threat to Israel.

Of course, Iran also has a section of its people, who as you say above, are proud nationalists, clowns like Ahmadinejad notwithstanding. US is trying to isolate this section and brings its puppets into power in a blood-less revolution; I am not sure US would like to slaughter pro-US TFTA Iranians by bombing Iranians as it did with impunity slaughtering black Libyans (or Iraqis earlier).


Since when was our world so Black and White? This is uni-dimensional thinking.

First,We must acknowledge that a substantial fraction of GOTUS want to keep Israel in check and keep the pot boiling in ME. Iran acts as a balance to both KSA and Israel in a powder keg Middle east. OTOH,Does US want a powerful Turkey?

Secondly, If US was that almighty they would have solved all the current world problems with your B-2 bombers taking off from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri.
It is not that simple world mate!

Lastly,India was not threatened with a impending attack by a carrier strike group of a super power off our coast 40 years back. What would threaten us now? 2000 armed terrorists and a nuke bomb which cannot be reliably delivered?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby jrjrao » 04 Nov 2011 19:23

A very long, very engaging read. Has details about what the US has planned, apparently, to denuke Terroristan.

The Ally From Hell
By JEFFREY GOLDBERG and MARC AMBINDER
The Atlantic, latest issue

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby sum » 04 Nov 2011 19:29

From the comments:
Funny, how Pakistan transformed itself from stalwart ally when we and they were financing Islamic terrorists -- oops! freedom fighters -- to fight the Russians, while Pakistan was led by an Islamic fundamentalist general -- into a rogue state.

And they ungratefully transformed just because we, in our galactic stupidity, created a pro-Indian government in Kabul.

Interestingly, the bumbling Pakistani state is the only power in the area that was able to smash Islamic insurgents within its borders. It did so because it had the support of the Pakistani people, who constantly reject Islamic extremists at the polls. Yep, it keeps some of the leftover attack dogs for se against us and our India-friendly ally in Afghanistan. You know, the government we imposed, run by drug dealers and murderers and a president elected via rigged ballots -- who just happens to be a bit mentally unstable.

I started laughing uncontrollably when the authors mentioned Pakistani lies.

When was the last time Pakistan launched a major war that killed hundreds of thousands of people based in lies about non-existent WMDs?

You want lies? Read the reports issued all the time about the "progress" we're making in Afghanistan, at the mere cost of two billion dollars per week. Why, we're making so much progress that we have to dive and cover often in Kabul, in various "secure" zones.

The truth is, we have Pakistan exactly where they want us, as the article points out. We depend on the Pakistan route for our useless war in Afghanistan.

Want to end that? Get out of Afghanistan.

Upset that Pakistan developed nuclear weapons? India developed them first, even after its armed forces proved repeatedly superior to Pakistans.' Remind you of another country with overwhelmingly superior conventional firepower that developed and deployed them -- destabilizing an even more critical region?

The fact that we have the best government money can buy explains Israel's immunity from criticism, but I don't understand why we in the end rewarded India's gross, incredibly stupid and dangerous steps and now blame Pakistan for creating some degree of parity. India had military superiority, but chose to assure that Pakistan would achieve the ability to incinerate it in case of all-out war.

This article and all its predecessors constitute the boo-hooing of a big, spoiled brat-nation that refuses to believe that actions have consequences and continues to cry and stomp its feet when it burns itself while playing with matches.

Love it when a Paki masquerades as a gora ( with usual "we invaded Iraq" etc thrown in)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby rajanb » 04 Nov 2011 19:38

Mother -in-Law looking after her Bahu

AfPak Channel via email:

The Journal has a must-read today reporting that the United States has tightened rules surrounding its drone program in Pakistan, purportedly giving greater say over strikes to the State Department, notifying Pakistani leaders in advance of some strikes, and keeping the CIA from striking targets while Pakistani leaders are visiting the United States (WSJ). However, the report notes that the CIA still has the authority to control targeting of both small- and large-scale attacks, quoting one senior official as saying, "It's not like they took the car keys away from the CIA...There are just more people in the car."

Khan-e-idjut as usual!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby ramana » 04 Nov 2011 19:57

TSP was never an ally in GOAT. What the Bush Admin did was to loudly proclaim to the facilitator that he was an ally and heaped gifts on them hoping that the 'ally' will see reason and behave.
What they didn't count on was that TSP is first Islamist state in modern world and will behave like that onlee. They need to take the T out of TSP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 04 Nov 2011 20:01

Kashi wrote:
parsuram wrote:(pathan foot soldier to pakjabi general:"you have never won a war, and we have never lost one"-anti soviet jehad, 1980s).


Not to nitpick on such a fine post, but didn't the Pathans have their collective arses handed to them by the Indian army in Kashmir war of 1947-48, before Nehruvian mother of all blunders?


kashi ji: Just to clarify, I quoted what I have heard, re: pathan to the paki general. I do not state it as a truth, but as what the pathans generally believe about themselves. Now, on what you say about the purported"pathan tribals"who got pushed back from Sirinagar in 47-48 invasion of Kashmir. Yes, there were a bunch of unruly pathans (promised loot, plunder and rape - and that was their main objective, which they fulfilled) with a major component from the newbie pakjabi army, so that does not qualify as a pathan defeat. What does, however, was what our Khalsa did to them when Punjab was a strong united sikh kingdom under Ranjit Singh. The sikhs handed the pathans their ass, and made them wear it around their necks. Until a century & more later, pathan mothers instilled their children with fear & terror by invoking the memory of Ranjit Singh (go to sleep .. etc. or Ranjeet Singh will come and get you). Actually, their defeat by the sikhs was as complete as it could get. The Iranis also beat them, but that was usually transitory.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby arun » 04 Nov 2011 20:24

Two articles on “expert” testimony coming out of the November 3, 2011 hearing titled “2014 and Beyond: U.S. Policy Towards Afghanistan and Pakistan, Part I” in the US by the Middle East and South Asia Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

PTI via Economic Times on expert testimony by C. Christine Fair:

Pakistan policy centers around resisting India's rise: Expert

Aziz Haniffa of Rediff on the testimony of both C. Christine Fair and Ashley Tellis:

'Pakistan is taking advantage of US stupidity'

Excerpts from the second (Rediff) article:

"I think what the Pakistanis are taking advantage of historical events -- and this has been true of every single period of engaging them -- saying that they support our strategic interests while taking advantage of our stupidity, our gullibility to take the massive aid that they get and funnel it into systems that really target their security interests, which have always been and always will be India-centric."

"And I believe that is how the Pakistani establishment sees it. I think we've been fools in trying to think that we could have a strategic relationship when our strategic interests differ. What they want is the goods without the obligation. That's firmly what I believe," ………………..


"Let's be very clear about the F-16 canard. We didn't give them the F-16s because we thought it would enhance their counterterrorism or their counterinsurgency capabilities. We did it to placate (former military leader Pervez) Musharraf. We did it to placate (current Pakistani Army chief Ashfaq) Kayani. And it hasn't gotten us anywhere."


Meanwhile, another witness, Dr Ashley Tellis, senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said what Pakistan was practicing in the region was "managed jihadism."

He explained that he considers "managed jihadism as the Pakistani strategy of supporting some terrorist groups while fighting other terrorist groups simultaneously."

"In effect, Pakistan's strategy since 2001 has been a highly differentiated counterterrorism strategy. They've identified groups that threaten the Pakistani state, and they have gone after them with a great deal of energy and concentration. And they have solicited assistance from the United States in support of that campaign," he said.


Testimony transcripts are here:

Ashley Tellis

C. Christine Fair
Last edited by arun on 04 Nov 2011 20:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby jrjrao » 04 Nov 2011 20:26

Here is confirmation that every ill-educated cantonment-bred loud-mouth lout on sundry deaf and dumb fora is being tracked out this "anonymous industrial park in Virginia, in an unassuming brick building."

AP Exclusive


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