Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

[Altair]

It is referred as "Intellectual masturbation". To me these people are p_rn stars.

The best part is none of these worthies have legitimate sources of Income, yet stay visit 5 star hotels , Jet set around the world in Ist class and criticize the Indian middle class for being too consumeristic.

Exactly what I think of them!

[Aditya_V]

WKKism ki jai hor. Read the full article to make your blood boil or ROTFL depending on how seriously you take it.
Former Indian minister suggests South Asian Union

Aiyar outlined following steps that include return to the Musharraf-Manmohan proposal to create a borderless Kashmir — where the Line of Control is rendered irrelevant – as a precursor to a borderless subcontinent.

Isn't he the same traitor who collected money for China during 1962 war...
Why does this duffer not make his home borderless so that I can move in and out effortlessly and then we will talk about J&K.

Why are we cursed with idiots like such. Which constituency is he pandering to by being a spokesperson for Paki RAPE.

Is this true?? and he is still a senior member of the Congress??? Better still make their entire families and bank accounts borderless so that anyone can enter and anyone can withdraw.

[Vikas]

IFS always had weak or short term MEA on top. In fact PM's have been MEA a lot of times. What results do we expect.

[Altair]

^^ How we ever got through the 70s/80s with IFS filled with guys like Natwar Singh, MSA, MKB etc will remain a mystery!!

One shudders to even visualize what damage they caused to India, about which details have not yet come out, when they were in service.

OT but I for one think that our nuclear deterrent is completely transparent to everyone except Indians.

[Pratyush]

I've been told that today on BBC Hardtalk Stephen Sackur violated Pervez's Musharraf... Haven't seen it yet. Not sure, but apparently Musharraf lost its composure towards the end and Pakistaniyat was flowing loosely.

Will get the opportunity at 9 PM IST will report accordingly

[Dilbu]

Is this trying to see silver in spit. Like I always say, Sometimes a cigar is a cigar and most of the times, actions of this govt are knee jerk and driven by WKK sentiments.
GoI hasn't given any indication of being tactically or strategically smart when it comes to dealing with TSP.
Any govt which supports TSP in anyway that TSP makes money which 500% will be used to kill Indians can't be given benefit of doubt.
How easily we have forgotten all the dead "Thanks TSP" who would have been alive only if GoI had cojones.

I was not seeing any chanakianism in GOI's actions but it is highly probable that India knew Bangladesh will be voting against it. Bangladesh was acting in self interest and it is debtable whether India was.

[Pratyush]

Musharraf: Mullah Omar has 'never been in Pakistan'

Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's former president, has told HARDtalk's Stephen Sackur that the Taliban leader Mullah Omar is not and has "never been in Pakistan".

He also agreed that the relationship between Pakistan and the US has "fundamentally broken down", saying it is at the "lowest ebb".

With his country racked by extremist violence, endemic corruption and deeply troubled relations with Afghanistan, India and the United States, Mr Musharraf is seeking a comeback. In the full interview Stephen Sackur asks why he thinks he is the solution to Pakistan's problems.

Just like OBL was not in TSP. Hain jee.

[Pratyush]

^^ How we ever got through the 70s/80s with IFS filled with guys like Natwar Singh, MSA, MKB etc will remain a mystery!!

These guys are a product of the times. No more then that.

[Vikas]

Dilbu Ji, The fact remains that MMS govt was trying to bail out TSP while BD was acting in self interest. Even if we knew about BD intentions, TSPians would not even acknowledge this favor, so why waste an effort and set precedent for the future.

[Dilbu]

Dilbu Ji, The fact remains that MMS govt was trying to bail out TSP while BD was acting in self interest. Even if we knew about BD intentions, TSPians would not even acknowledge this favor, so why waste an effort and set precedent for the future.

I agree with you.

[Vasu]

WKKism ki jai hor. Read the full article to make your blood boil or ROTFL depending on how seriously you take it.
Former Indian minister suggests South Asian Union

So there is nothing Chankian in a former Indian diplomat talking of Akhand Bharat to a Pakistani?

[Dilbu]

I think the idea of Akhand Bharat itself is BS. Who would want to open their borders and embrace a rabid failed terrorist state like TSP? Creation of TSP was a good thing. Good riddance I say.

[Pratyush]

^^^

By reminding the TSP of Akhand Bharat, we keep on telling them that 1947 is a temporary event. Much like the way the PRC claims parts of different nation. The Difference in our case is that we are claiming the whole dammed TSP it self. Be it in a nice and piss full way.

[Vikas]

^
Bhai, We need to move away with the idea of Akhand Bharat. As Dilbu rightly said, Who in his mind would want 18-20 Crore fanatic ,illiterate Jehadis from this failed state mixing with us and there is no other outlet to them except for Arabian Sea.
Anyways I don't trust these psudo-intellectual politicians like MSA with Chanikian moves. He and his ilk most likely will sell mother India for another round of whiskey or a trip to Furrin land.
My fear is that someday when we can afford it, We will be forced to take these ungrateful murdering mass back thanks to such good for nothing MP's.

Looking back, I think it was for the good that 1947 happened and the cancer was localized on eastern and western sides of India.

[SSridhar]

I hope that when Mr. SM Krishna says that the 'trust deficit' has shrunk, that determination is based on solid actions, not just words or promises. Nothing that Pakistan has done in public domain since 26/11 has done anything to reduce the trust deficit. Mr SMK might very well be privy to something else. However, the actions in public domain have only widened the trust deficit. It had better be that the Indian side is on solid and unslippery grounds when it makes such statements which seem contrary to surface truth.

[CRamS]

MMS will bumble and fumble when next set of poor Indians will be killed by Paki terrorists.
Anyways what are MMS's ties to India ? Born in TSP (and proud of it), living in Delhi, serving SG, Daughter a GC holder in USA....

I have mentioned this many times before, but MMS represents an India that has no nationalistic bone. No self respecting country with a nationalist bone, and I am of course refering to western countries, even pipsqueak western Christian countries that have the gall to lecture India on human rights, would have someone like MMS at the helm. People attribute all kinds of benign motives to this guy's soft peddling of TSP terror, the most grotesque being his surrender on 26/11.

But the simple fact of the matter is that at his core, he is some kind of a bogus "South Asian" who simply does not have it in his bones to assert India's (meaning Hindu civilization) domination. So he has successfully cresetd to power by riding on the fissures in Indian society (Muslims, Dalits, communists, rich Vs poor etc who have percieve that India, meaning Hinduism is an inherently unjust faith, and there can never be any common cause with Hinduism at large). A nationalst leader does not mean he/she go to the other extreme, but someone who can assert India's unique Hindu civilization and stand up for it, not an apologist or a self-loather (tats the bane of pseudo-secularists) for its failings under the guise of fighting poverty etc.

So, MMS appears a lamb, but he is steadfast his inability to see that what ails "South Asia" is not TSP obsession to fly their flag over the red fort in New Delhi, but rather lifting "South Asians" out of poverty. Prima facie, this appears reasonable, when in fact there are so many fissures in Indian society, when there is rampant poverty etc. Furthermore, to the whites for whom India == TSP, this TSP perfidy will sound pre-posterous, will sound like a conspiracy peddled by "Hindu nationalists", and so for them MMS is a "useful idiot" who does cages the Indian tiger in a "South Asia" box. This suits the west just fine. India offers a labaratory for all kinds of social engineering experiments.

[Altair]

I hope that when Mr. SM Krishna says that the 'trust deficit' has shrunk, that determination is based on solid actions, not just words or promises. Nothing that Pakistan has done in public domain since 26/11 has done anything to reduce the trust deficit. Mr SMK might very well be privy to something else. However, the actions in public domain have only widened the trust deficit. It had better be that the Indian side is on solid and unslippery grounds when it makes such statements which seem contrary to surface truth.

If his undergarment has shrunk it would tighten his nuts and he may be referring to that!

[member_19686]

^
Bhai, We need to move away with the idea of Akhand Bharat. As Dilbu rightly said, Who in his mind would want 18-20 Crore fanatic ,illiterate Jehadis from this failed state mixing with us and there is no other outlet to them except for Arabian Sea.
Anyways I don't trust these psudo-intellectual politicians like MSA with Chanikian moves. He and his ilk most likely will sell mother India for another round of whiskey or a trip to Furrin land.
My fear is that someday when we can afford it, We will be forced to take these ungrateful murdering mass back thanks to such good for nothing MP's.

Looking back, I think it was for the good that 1947 happened and the cancer was localized on eastern and western sides of India.

What was the point of Partition with no population exchange?

You do realize that the biggest supporters of Partition weren't they but the Muslims of what we today call India?

UP & its AMU were the fountainheads of this ideology and if I am to believe BRFite shibboleths all these millions of Muslim League voters and rioters overnight became Indian patriots just because they decided to stay back in India (for reasons of property).

The most ghastly atrocities of the pre-Partition era were not done by Muslims of those areas but by Muslims of Kerala, remember the so called "Moplah rebellion". According to a Mallu friend of mine he once heard a Muslim boast about his grandpa getting pension for killing Nambuthuris (the Moplah scum seem to have been granted pensions as freedom fighters by commies).

In the 1946 provincial elections NWFP was the only Muslim majority province where the ML didn't win.

Partition without population exchange (as suggested by the pragmatic Ambedkar) is a huge self-goal, we got nothing out of it except loss of land and our access to Central Asia was cut off.

[Jaspreet]

Parsuram ji,

Ignoring your comment about my being a Khalistani sympathizer and moving on, here are my thoughts on why your idea is not a good one.

1. Assuming Khalistanis are granted land in Kashmir and assuming Khalistanis turn against Kashmiris as we want,
(a) it will soon turn into Muslim versus Sikh scenario in Kashmir and will possibly have the same effect in rest of India as well. That is just an artifact of the way we, the people of the subcontinent, think. Every thing is sought to be explained on the basis of one's religion. So when Khalistanis bat for India, it won't be perceived as Khalistanis doing India's bidding but Sikhs against Muslims. You can expect Chhatisingpura type incidents in the rest of India as well.

(b) Assuming Khalistanis are moderately successful in their task, it will increase their influence. This, I think, will have two repercussions:
(i) They will be emboldened to put more resources, time and effort into their agenda, namely Khalistan.
(ii) The Sikhs who are with India, and people of other religions who want secession from India would see and learn that if you're against India, you're rewarded with lands in a place that's called paradise on earth.

2. Assuming Sikhs and not Khalistanis are granted land in Kashmir, again it will lead to 1(a).

3. Rift.
(a) You're right, the rifts, wedges and chasms already exist but they will be magnified. Our task should be to bridge the divide, not to expand it. This is what we should work for.

(b) The rifts also exist between Hindus and Muslims, so why not send Hindus to Kashmir, especially Gurkhas who are demonstrably 1:30 against Muslims.

4. The GoI is unable to give a small parcel of Kashmiri land for the pilgrims. It will fail miserably if it wants to grant lands for settling to others. We need a Chinese style democracy to achieve such aims.

5. Learning from extra-military organizations that Pakistan has created and one that India created (LTTE), we see that they soon become monsters and turn upon their masters.

6. Khalistanis are traitors and so are secession wanting Kashmiris. There is a huge possibility that they will combine resources rather than fight with each other. Their aim is the same.

(As a side note: the handle of a person on this forum is not necessarily indicative of their religion)

[SSridhar]

Mr. Krishna & Khar discuss terror issue

“Terror was the main stress of the meeting. Krishna told Pakistan that it should not allow its soil to be used for terror. To which Khar assured that her country will not allow its soil to be used for such acts, {and that set all Indian doubts at rest and shrunk the trust deficit even further} ” an official privy to the meeting told PTI.

Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir said such meetings add to the “feel good factor”.

“More contacts, more meetings are forward looking. We did discuss the meeting at summit level on Thursday,” he said.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is scheduled to meet his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday morning. {So, now that Khar has assured India on not allowing terror on its soil, it is time for Man Mohan Singh to concede some more in the one-on-one tomorrow}

[Dilbu]

^
Bhai, We need to move away with the idea of Akhand Bharat. As Dilbu rightly said, Who in his mind would want 18-20 Crore fanatic ,illiterate Jehadis from this failed state mixing with us and there is no other outlet to them except for Arabian Sea.
Anyways I don't trust these psudo-intellectual politicians like MSA with Chanikian moves. He and his ilk most likely will sell mother India for another round of whiskey or a trip to Furrin land.
My fear is that someday when we can afford it, We will be forced to take these ungrateful murdering mass back thanks to such good for nothing MP's.

Looking back, I think it was for the good that 1947 happened and the cancer was localized on eastern and western sides of India.

What was the point of Partition with no population exchange?

You do realize that the biggest supporters of Partition weren't they but the Muslims of what we today call India?

UP & its AMU were the fountainheads of this ideology and if I am to believe BRFite shibboleths all these millions of Muslim League voters and rioters overnight became Indian patriots just because they decided to stay back in India (for reasons of property).

The most ghastly atrocities of the pre-Partition era were not done by Muslims of those areas but by Muslims of Kerala, remember the so called "Moplah rebellion". According to a Mallu friend of mine he once heard a Muslim boast about his grandpa getting pension for killing Nambuthuris (the Moplah scum seem to have been granted pensions as freedom fighters by commies).

In the 1946 provincial elections NWFP was the only Muslim majority province where the ML didn't win.

Partition without population exchange (as suggested by the pragmatic Ambedkar) is a huge self-goal, we got nothing out of it except loss of land and our access to Central Asia was cut off.

It is all in the past. If we are to make decisions today then we have to look at the facts as on this date. We have to realise the fact that India and TSP are totally different countries now and we have nothing in common from those days of 1940s. It does not make a difference now whether the partition was just, unjust or useless. We have to realise what this entity called TSP across the border really is TODAY and deal with it accordingly. Living in past glory or reliving past horrors will not solve tomorrow's problems. We should learn from history but that knowledge should be used for solving present issues. JMHO.

[shiv]

I hope that when Mr. SM Krishna says that the 'trust deficit' has shrunk, that determination is based on solid actions, not just words or promises. Nothing that Pakistan has done in public domain since 26/11 has done anything to reduce the trust deficit. Mr SMK might very well be privy to something else. However, the actions in public domain have only widened the trust deficit. It had better be that the Indian side is on solid and unslippery grounds when it makes such statements which seem contrary to surface truth.

TV news says that Mr. Khar wants to "raise the bar" in India Pakistan relations. I hope he was not referring to SMK. That bar ain't goin' nowhere.

[Lalmohan]

trust deficit shrinking could simply mean "i krishna believe that rabbani is trying her best..."

[shiv]

I think the idea of Akhand Bharat itself is BS. Who would want to open their borders and embrace a rabid failed terrorist state like TSP? Creation of TSP was a good thing. Good riddance I say.

It is ironic that Pakistan has screwed itself precisely to foil any plan to become part of Akhand Bharat in the ultimate example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

"If we can't get India, India will get only bullshit by taking us!". And to think that Pakistanis have done this to themselves with such pride and dignity! Un friggin believable!

[Vasu]

That is the point I am trying to make.

It is this same forum where we have discussed so many times how any mention of a unified Indian subcontinent in any reference or in any tone or by anyone makes any Paki squirm. Whatever the intentions of the person, any Paki should give a similar reaction of absolute unease.

[Lalmohan]

actually no, the paqui does want akhand bharat, but as the re-formed mughal empire - green jhanda on lal qila, etc.

[Vikas]

When we talk about Akhand Bharat, Do we even realize what exactly it means or what we are expecting from it. ?
Is this only a ploy to make Pakis squirm ?

For me the idea is fine as long as we get our lands back sans the zombies also known as TSPians on western borders. I have still no opinion on BD joining this AB nor anyone talks about it. Why doesn't MSA or other WKK's talk about making Indo-BD borders irrelevant beats me.

[A_Gupta]

Aforementioned US International Commission on Religious Freedom report on Pakistan
(PDF file)
http://www.uscirf.gov/images/Pakistan-C ... 284%29.pdf

PS: excerpt:

“Hindus have tried all their means to harm Muslims of Indian Sub-continent and killed millions of Muslims. They were deprived of their assets and properties.”

[Lalmohan]

because WKK's and powe elites are far from the rice paddies and jungle frontiers of the ganga-brahmaputra delta lands - as they always were

[anishns]

All this shrinkage business for SM seems akin to George Costanza's ordeal in that Seinfeld episode

trust deficit shrinking could simply mean "i krishna believe that rabbani is trying her best..."

[A_Gupta]

Far more important than the anti-Hindu stuff is this junk from the Paki textbooks:

“Pakistan is an Islamic country and Muslim citizens are brothers to one another.” 59

“To keep the Islamic identity and existence it is necessary for our country to safeguard religion and its values. Pakistan is the only country which came into being in the name of Islam.”60

“The foreign cultures are leaving deep influence over the Islamic values because of the electronic media. There is every danger that we may lose our cultural identities. In such circumstances and because of the vast changing cultural and religious situations, it is necessary for us that we must fully defend our political borders, take care of our basic views with love and devotion for Islam. This can ensure the safety of our country. The anti-Islamic forces are always trying to finish the Islamic domination of the world. This can cause danger for the very existence of Islam. Today, the defense of Pakistan and Islam is very much in need. It is more needed today because Pakistan is the only Islamic country which is an atomic power. Some people call this atomic power of Pakistan as Islamic bomb. Today, all the anti-Islamic powers look at Pakistan in such a way that we may remain away and aloof from the leadership of the Islamic world… The spirit of jihad may be inculcated among the people and Islamic viewpoints may be propagated.”61

“Islamic society was devoid of every kind of evil, but gradually the Muslims began
turning away from the Islamic principles and un-Islamic ways popularized, which
became one of the reasons of Muslim downfall.”62

“There were many reasons for the downfall of Muslims [in South Asia]. The most
important reason was the internal conflicts which resulted in the division of their state in several small states. The second important reason was the end of the spirit of Jihad among Muslims.”63

[subodh]

A_Gupta

This is excellent stuff, why complain? They do need more Islam, the purer the better. For everyone.

At some stage, the secular jihadis in khaki will have to make the existential choice of eitehr submitting to the true bearded gazis, or shedding the khaki altogether and admitting they have merged with the real protectors of Islam. Purer Islam, brought quicker to the place helps get this process done faster.

I wish them well.

[A_Gupta]

Subodh, all those who talk of Akhand Bharat - or even simply of a functioning SAFTA - will have to figure out how to deprogram 180 million Pakistanis from their indoctrination.

Secondly, one day reality *will* intrude. Some Pakistanis will react to the invalidation and utter collapse of their worldview with extreme violence. Towards India.

[shiv]

Aforementioned US International Commission on Religious Freedom report on Pakistan
(PDF file)
http://www.uscirf.gov/images/Pakistan-C ... 284%29.pdf

PS: excerpt:

“Hindus have tried all their means to harm Muslims of Indian Sub-continent and killed millions of Muslims. They were deprived of their assets and properties.”

Thanks for posting

Pakistan and Social Studies textbooks are rife with negative comments regarding
India and Great Britain, but Hindus are often singled out for particular criticism in
texts and in interview responses, together with Ahmadis, who consider themselves
Muslims but are not considered so by the Pakistani constitution. Although an
unbiased review of history would show that Hindus and Muslims enjoyed centuries
of harmonious co-existence, Hindus are repeatedly described as extremists and eternal
enemies of Islam. Hindu culture and society are portrayed as unjust and cruel, while
Islam is portrayed as just and peaceful.
According to the National Commission for Justice and Peace (NCJP) report:

“Government issued textbooks teach students that Hindus are backward and supersti-
tious, and given a chance, they would assert their power over the weak, especially,
Muslims, depriving them of education by pouring molten lead in their ears...”7

[Anujan]

Easy prediction. Pindi will urgently commission the usual and reliable Ejaz Haider to write another of those quick and furious rebuttals, including the usual penile and scat references the pepper Haider's thinking and writing.

US commission: Pakistani schools teaching intolerance of non-Muslims, increasing militancy

All of South Asia should tackle this serious issue. Both India and Pakistan should fix their textbooks. There are extremists on both sides. Equal==Equal onlee.

[subodh]

A_Gupta

I think Akhand Bharat is a lovely psyops to pull on those orcs, i doubt anyone sane wants anything from that sewer to be actually associated with India. But each time someone says 'Akhand Bharat', these is a sharp stabbing pain in their nether regions, which i find delightful.

My comment was more about the school curriciculum discussion. I sincerely do not want any 'reform' there - I do think they need a lot more Islam, and faster and purer, the better.

[Pratyush]

The Hard Talk interview of Mush was pedestrian for the most part. The last 5 minutes is all over the place. This is when some one has prodded Mr Stephan Sakur. to take on Mush. Mush acquitted hims self admirably.

I now understand why some of the Indian media liked him in Agra. The one thing I got from him was a man who served his country and still has its best interest in mind. A dangerous man I am glad that he has no more role to play in the TSP. It is men like him who will have to be dealt with if there is to be peace in Sub continent
.
It ended abruptly for live news coverage at 9:30 Pm ist.

[Sushupti]

The Pentagon's Secret Plans to Secure Pakistan's Nuclear Arsenal

Shortly after Navy SEALs raided the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May and killed Osama bin Laden, Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, the Pakistani chief of army staff, spoke with Khalid Kidwai, the retired lieutenant general in charge of securing Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. Kidwai, who commands a security apparatus called the Strategic Plans Division, had been expecting Kayani’s call..........................

http://gsn.nti.org/gsn/nw_20111104_8533 ... um=twitter

[parsuram]

Jaspreet ji: Let us not beat a dead horse. As I mentioned in my original post, my suggestion for khalistanis goes back a quite a while - a decade or so. The world has moved on. I had some family on the ground in the army in Kashmir (both hindu and sikh) at the time, and had more personal access to information on what went on there. There is no secret that I am a punjabi with heritage on both sides, so regardless of what anyone else's religion, I go with namaste/sat sri aakal with every one here on the forum. Hope that clears up on where I am coming from. As for the Sikhs in Kashmir, they have not been treated much different by the islamists in Kashmir than the Hindu pandits. It is just that the sikhs have not taken it lying down as the Pandits. They are well organized, and they defend their right to be there. If khalistanis had been sent there, no doubt in my mind that they would have supported their fellow sikhs. That would not have impacted muslim/sikh relations in the rest of India any more than the present conflict beteen the islamists and sikhs does. The muslims in the rest of India clearly differentiate the kashmiri muslims from themselves when they look at inter communal relations. The muslims of the rest of India are, infact, some what indifferent to the Kashmiri muslims, and some actually are mildly irritated that the kashmiris muslims take up so much bandwidth. So, based on what I know of attitudes on the ground, I do not think that having more sikhs in Kashmir (at the time) would have made much of any difference to muslim attitudes towards the sikh community. Since you keep bringing up sending in Hindus (you suggested "saxenas etc"), I dont think there is much of an argument to be made there. I feel I have a right to speak up for my communities (both punjabi hindus and sikhs) who have borne the brunt of islamist mussalmans, and they should have the right to go into Kashmir if they desire. For what it is worth, many have, but not like in POK, which is almost all settled with pakjabis. But as I said, that was my suggestion almost a decade back, and I dont have sufficient information to say one way or another today. It is a dead issue. I hope this also clears up my misunderstanding in writing to you as I did, for which I apologise, and we can move on.

[Theo_Fidel]

because WKK's and powe elites are far from the rice paddies and jungle frontiers of the ganga-brahmaputra delta lands - as they always were

Not to mention Kachativu. Only piece of land India voluntarily handed over to another country. By IG no less. Truly Dilli is far away.