Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

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chetak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by chetak »

But we have snakes in our front yard too!

Snake in the backyard
Pakistan’s peace cheque is post-dated and issued on a bank in dubious health. It is buying time by pretending to seek better relations with India.

Pakistan is going through troubled times. Opposition is mounting in the United States Congress to proposals by the Obama Administration for military and economic assistance to a country labelled as a ‘major non-NATO ally’ but recently characterised as nurturing a “snake in its backyard”. Americans increasingly allude to Pakistan as an ‘enemy’ rather than as a ‘friend’. An enterprising American journalist humorously describes Pakistan as a “frenemy” of the US.

Turkey has for decades cultivated Pakistan, even at the expense of its relations with India. But, just on the eve of the Istanbul Summit on Afghanistan, the influential Turkish daily Hurriet, reflecting the views of its Government, warned: “Treating Afghanistan as its own backyard and waging proxy war will be to the detriment of Pakistan’s own interest. Pakistan needs to change course and stop relying on its nuisance value”. At the Maldives SAARC Summit an infuriated Afghan President Hamid Karzai directly alluded to Pakistani support and safe havens for the Taliban, asserting: “We believe we should talk to Pakistan (and not the Taliban). We cannot keep talking to suicide-bombers till we have the address, telephone number and a door to knock at.”

General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani’s reaction to accusations of supporting terrorism has been based on the adage that offence is the best form of defence. Rather than hanging his head in shame after Osama bin Laden was found hidden by the military at Abbottabad, Gen Kayani aroused public passions by converting the whole issue into one involving an American breach of Pakistan’s sacred ‘sovereignty’. A cornered and weak civilian Government was left with little choice but to join Gen Kayani in fanning the flames of anti-Americanism.

Gen Kayani’s propaganda focussed on how 30,000 Pakistani lives had been sacrificed as “victims of terrorism”. The Pakistanis conveniently glossed over the fact that the bulk of those who died had been killed in conflict with terrorists who had been earlier trained and armed by the ISI. While the usual suspects in the American media and academia tried to bend backwards to empathise with the Pakiastani Army, and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made some soothing noises, Pakistan now faces the reality that duplicity on terrorism is making it an international pariah.

Pakistan’s propaganda offensive against India on terrorism has, however, left New Delhi confused and defensive, thanks to some inept handling by South Block. At Sharm el-Sheikh, Pakistan succeeded in de-linking terrorism from the composite dialogue process. Our diplomats tried to be too-clever-by-half by pretending, contrary to facts, that all that we had resumed was a dialogue and not the ‘composite dialogue,’ which was commenced pursuant to a categorical assurance by Pakistan that “territory under its control would not be used for terrorism against India”.

The net result has been that the salience of terrorism emanating from Pakistan, which is today the primary source of international and Indian concern, has been thoroughly eroded in the dialogue process. Worse still, Pakistan is now getting away with the propaganda that what happened in Mumbai is no different from the deaths caused by ‘Hindu terrorists’ in the Samjhauta Express bombing. Pakistan points a finger at India for allegedly failing to prosecute the perpetrators of the Samjhauta Express bombing and uses this to explain its inaction in bringing the perpetrators of 26/11 to book.

Pakistan knows from its past experience that Indian diplomacy lacks the resilience and resolve to stand firm on terrorist outrages it perpetrates. Dawood Ibrahim, the perpetrator of the Mumbai serial bombings in 1993 when more than 250 innocent people lost their lives, resides in resplendent splendour in a mansion in the elite Defence Housing Society in Karachi. This attack did not prevent New Delhi from bending backwards to start the composite dialogue process, where terrorism was bracketed with drug-smuggling, in 1999.

The commencement of this dialogue process was followed by the Kargil conflict and the attack on the Red Fort in Delhi by the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba, with Hafiz Mohammed Saeed publicly and proudly proclaiming that he had “unfurled the green flag of Islam on the ramparts of the Red Fort”. We, in turn, issued an invitation for a Summit with General Pervez Musharraf with no proper preparations. Shortly after the failed Summit, the Jaish-e-Mohammed, whose leader we had released during the hijacking of IC 814, attacked our Parliament House.

In order to justify the decision to de-link the resumption of the composite dialogue process from terrorism, we are also now witnessing the strange phenomenon of the spin doctors of South Block making it appear that Pakistan is doing a great favour by extending the Most Favoured Nation status to us. As a London-based Pakistani analyst, Mr Haider Shah, representing the Rationalist Society of Pakistan, notes: “Normal, non-discriminatory trade relations are the cornerstone of the international trade system under the World Trade Organisation as MFN is the first article of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, second article of the General Agreement on Trade in Services, and the fourth article of the Agreement on Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights. This means that the prohibitive tariff of yesteryears amounts to pushing the country back into the Stone Age, as all other countries have moved ahead of the second stage and are entering the third phase of Free Trade Agreements.”

Moreover, despite the agreement between Commerce Secretaries, it remains to be seen if Pakistan will fulfil its commitments on trade liberalisation to be undertaken by November 2012, as Prime Minister Gilani has averred that no final decision has been taken on granting MFN status to India.

An astute Indian analyst recently observed: “Pakistan’s peace cheque is post-dated, and issued on a bank in dubious health.” Pakistan is obviously buying time by pretending to seek a better relationship with India, even while retaining its jihadi assets to strike again when its present isolation ends and it is able to move more forces from the Durand Line to its eastern border. We should, therefore, ensure that Pakistan does not succeed in installing its jihadi proxies in Kabul, while making it clear that we are not prepared to forget or forgive the perpetrators of the 26/11 outrage, even if we courteously use terms like “man of peace,” or a “breath of fresh air” to flatter their impeccably attired leaders in the salubrious climes of the Attu Island resort in Maldives.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Rohit_K »

High-ranking ISI officer escapes attempt on life in Islamabad
ISLAMABAD, Nov 22: A high-ranking officer escaped attempt on his life outside his office on Tuesday when a suicide bomber failed to detonate his explosive jacket and vanished into the nearby wilderness of Shakarparian.

Islamabad police said in a statement that a suicide jacket had been found in the wooded area across the Kashmir Highway but did not refer to the high drama.

Security and police sources would not name the targeted ISI officer but inquiries made by build up a fairly detailed picture of the assassination attempt that went awry.

According to the sources, the officer`s vehicle and its security detail had just passed the CDA headquarters around 8:45am to enter the adjacent ISI headquarters when a man suddenly jumped in front of the motorcade. For a split second, the vehicles in the convoy applied brakes but sped on into the safety of ISI headquarters as the man fiddled with two triggering devices in his hands.

Confused and alarmed, the would-be suicide bomber took to his heels. He ran across the Khyaban-i-Suhrawardy to the parallel Kashmir Highway and then vanished into the heavily-wooded area.
...
“It was packed with seven kilogrammes of C4 explosives. Two detonators, connected with a 9 volt battery, were found nearby.

The wire to the battery was found disconnected. That may be the reason that the trigger didn`t work – unless the wire came off from the impact that the jacket would have suffered when its wearer threw it off,” said one source.
...
ArmenT
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by ArmenT »

SBajwa wrote:http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111123/main4.htm

Pakistan raising green wall along border to blind BSF
Jupinderjit Singh/TNS

Chicken Neck (Kanachak), November 22
While continuing making concrete bunkers along the international border in the Jammu area, Pakistan is erecting a wall of trees to block the view of the BSF. The line of sight has reduced from 2 km to half-a-km or less, where the saplings have grown to considerable height.
...
...
The Tribune team witnessed the obstruction in the line of sight of the BSF during the day as well as night hours on this border. BSF sources said they pruned some of the trees, whose branches extended to Indian side, but they can’t uproot trees as they were away from Zero Line.

Most of the trees or the saplings are of Sheesham species but at some places the fast growing ‘Arandi’ (Castor) tree were also planted. This tree spreads in a large area fast as it strews seeds all around it.
Erm, perhaps there could be some accidental fires in the future? If I recall correctly, sheesham wood is an excellent fuel.
sum
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by sum »

ISLAMABAD, Nov 22: A high-ranking officer escaped attempt on his life outside his office on Tuesday when a suicide bomber failed to detonate his explosive jacket and vanished into the nearby wilderness of Shakarparian.

Islamabad police said in a statement that a suicide jacket had been found in the wooded area across the Kashmir Highway but did not refer to the high drama.

Security and police sources would not name the targeted ISI officer but inquiries made by build up a fairly detailed picture of the assassination attempt that went awry.
This is what happens when noobs are pushed into the deep end. Hope the miscreants rectify this and send well trianed folks the next time.

Wonder which branch this ISI afsar belonged to? the S branch?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by sum »

Pak Hindus want to make Delhi their home
Perpetual fear of being targeted in their country has led a group of 140 visiting Pakistani Hindus to remain in India and seek shelter wanting to make Delhi their new home.

Pakistani Hindu kids, who came to India on a tourist visa, at a refugee camp in north Delhi on Wednesday. A group of 140 visiting Pakistani Hindus who had come to India in September do not want to go back as they feel their future there will be in jeopardy. PTIThe group from Sindh province came to India on a tourist visa, which has since expired, and does not want to return to to their birthplace as they feel their future there will be in jeopardy.

Living in penury and with their visas having expired two months back, the 27 families from a village in Matiari district near Hyderabad feel they will be secure in India.

Currently living in tents put up by an organisation in Majnu Ka Tilla in north Delhi, the old, the young and the children have only one appeal to the Indian Government -- extend visas and give them proper accommodation in the city.

Having got tourist visas after waiting for several years, the group of 140 people crossed over to the Indian side from Pakistan by foot on September two and reached the capital two days later.

Ganga Ram, who is coordinating with the NGO, says they had written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress chief Sonia Gandhi in this regard, but are yet to get a reply.

Making rotis in an open space surrounded by her family and friends at the camp, 20-year-old Jamuna narrated her tale of leaving Pakistan to India with a glimmer of hope that at least her children would be able to get better life and education in a peaceful environment.

"There is no religious freedom in Pakistan. We (Hindus) were never allowed to study. We have always been targeted. We were waiting for the Indian visa so that we can come here and settle in Hindustan. We just don't want to go back," she told PTI as she served rotis to her family.

The 27 families have been provided with separate tents, blankets and groceries by Dera Baba Dhunni Dass to make both ends meet. Some youths in the group have started working too in nearby shops.

Jamuna, who went in and out of school, said the families have left their home, land, cattle and other articles behind with just a prayer in their mind that "Indian people would help us."

40-year-old Chanderma summed up why they fled Pakistan. "Children went to school but they were asked to sit separately. They were not even given water there," she claimed, adding, "We did not want to live in an environment of fear. That is why we came here through a tourist visa."

She says the community can take care of their expenses, but they want their visas to be extended and accommodation provided so that their children can resume their education.

The tale of 13-year-old Aarti would move anyone. She has never studied but learned Hindu mantras from her grand-parents and she teaches other kids in the camp when she finishes cooking meals for her family.

"I learnt the mantras and now I want even my young friends to know them. I bust my stress by teaching them whatever I learned from my grand-parents," she said as her brother joined in. He would not reveal his name, but asks why can't they, despite being Hindus, can't live in India. "There are thousands of Bangladeshis, Nepalis and Tibetans living in India. Why can't we live here. The Government should make arrangements for us to carry on our life here," he said.

"How can we live peacefully when every single day someone comes and asks us to get converted to Islam?" Aarti's brother asks. Sagar, who was a mechanic in his village in Pakistan, echoed his neighbour's sentiments and says the tourist visa was the only way to get out of Pakistan.

"Some people in our village used to come and beat us up. They used to ransack our homes and take away things. Things never improved and would never. We now want a place to live. We can take care of ourselves. There is no problem in that," he said.

The children, most of whom either dropped out of school or never went to one, have made open space outside their camps and spend their free time playing cricket and other games. "We don't want to go back. I am scared of going back. I want to be here only," Amar, 12, says as he asks his friend to bowl.
Aditya_V
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Aditya_V »

sum wrote:Pak Hindus want to make Delhi their home
Perpetual fear of being targeted in their country has led a group of 140 visiting Pakistani Hindus to remain in India and seek shelter wanting to make Delhi their new home.

Pakistani Hindu kids, who came to India on a tourist visa, at a refugee camp in north Delhi on Wednesday. A group of 140 visiting Pakistani Hindus who had come to India in September do not want to go back as they feel their future there will be in jeopardy. PTIThe group from Sindh province came to India on a tourist visa, which has since expired, and does not want to return to to their birthplace as they feel their future there will be in jeopardy.

Living in penury and with their visas having expired two months back, the 27 families from a village in Matiari district near Hyderabad feel they will be secure in India.

Currently living in tents put up by an organisation in Majnu Ka Tilla in north Delhi, the old, the young and the children have only one appeal to the Indian Government -- extend visas and give them proper accommodation in the city.

Having got tourist visas after waiting for several years, the group of 140 people crossed over to the Indian side from Pakistan by foot on September two and reached the capital two days later.

Ganga Ram, who is coordinating with the NGO, says they had written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress chief Sonia Gandhi in this regard, but are yet to get a reply.

Making rotis in an open space surrounded by her family and friends at the camp, 20-year-old Jamuna narrated her tale of leaving Pakistan to India with a glimmer of hope that at least her children would be able to get better life and education in a peaceful environment.

"There is no religious freedom in Pakistan. We (Hindus) were never allowed to study. We have always been targeted. We were waiting for the Indian visa so that we can come here and settle in Hindustan. We just don't want to go back," she told PTI as she served rotis to her family.

The 27 families have been provided with separate tents, blankets and groceries by Dera Baba Dhunni Dass to make both ends meet. Some youths in the group have started working too in nearby shops.

Jamuna, who went in and out of school, said the families have left their home, land, cattle and other articles behind with just a prayer in their mind that "Indian people would help us."

40-year-old Chanderma summed up why they fled Pakistan. "Children went to school but they were asked to sit separately. They were not even given water there," she claimed, adding, "We did not want to live in an environment of fear. That is why we came here through a tourist visa."

She says the community can take care of their expenses, but they want their visas to be extended and accommodation provided so that their children can resume their education.

The tale of 13-year-old Aarti would move anyone. She has never studied but learned Hindu mantras from her grand-parents and she teaches other kids in the camp when she finishes cooking meals for her family.

"I learnt the mantras and now I want even my young friends to know them. I bust my stress by teaching them whatever I learned from my grand-parents," she said as her brother joined in. He would not reveal his name, but asks why can't they, despite being Hindus, can't live in India. "There are thousands of Bangladeshis, Nepalis and Tibetans living in India. Why can't we live here. The Government should make arrangements for us to carry on our life here," he said.

"How can we live peacefully when every single day someone comes and asks us to get converted to Islam?" Aarti's brother asks. Sagar, who was a mechanic in his village in Pakistan, echoed his neighbour's sentiments and says the tourist visa was the only way to get out of Pakistan.

"Some people in our village used to come and beat us up. They used to ransack our homes and take away things. Things never improved and would never. We now want a place to live. We can take care of ourselves. There is no problem in that," he said.

The children, most of whom either dropped out of school or never went to one, have made open space outside their camps and spend their free time playing cricket and other games. "We don't want to go back. I am scared of going back. I want to be here only," Amar, 12, says as he asks his friend to bowl.
Its time that INC leadership, JNU Intellectual Ding Dings, Media/ NGO ding Dings be sent to Islamic country as Kaafirs, they need to practice what they preach India should be like.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

[quote="sum"]Pak Hindus want to make Delhi their home

Shame on GoI if they don't extend visas for these Hindus and instead send them back to the hell hole... GoI has money to feed Ajmal Kasab and lets 7500 piggies to go missing in India... ** Deleted **.... The terror emanating from piggistan doesn't bother me as much as the duplicity of our own leaders & liberal elite.... Pakistan is a snake and it will always try to bite us but our leaders are stupid enough to try and appease the snake with milk & almonds rather then crushing its head...
Last edited by SSridhar on 24 Nov 2011 11:02, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Shaashtanga, this outburst is unacceptable.
partha
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by partha »

Shaashtanga wrote:
Not in good taste.
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by shiv »

Shaashtanga wrote:
Shame on GoI if they don't extend visas for these Hindus and instead send them back to the hell hole... GoI has money to feed Ajmal Kasab and lets 7500 piggies to go missing in India... ** Deleted **.... The terror emanating from piggistan doesn't bother me as much as the duplicity of our own leaders & liberal elite.... Pakistan is a snake and it will always try to bite us but our leaders are stupid enough to try and appease the snake with milk & almonds rather then crushing its head...
But Shaastanga ji, control your temper and think. Shouldn't Hindu groups be helping these people rather than cursing people who are not helping?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Sri »

sum wrote:
ISLAMABAD, Nov 22: A high-ranking officer escaped attempt on his life outside his office on Tuesday when a suicide bomber failed to detonate his explosive jacket and vanished into the nearby wilderness of Shakarparian.

Islamabad police said in a statement that a suicide jacket had been found in the wooded area across the Kashmir Highway but did not refer to the high drama.

Security and police sources would not name the targeted ISI officer but inquiries made by build up a fairly detailed picture of the assassination attempt that went awry.
This is what happens when noobs are pushed into the deep end. Hope the miscreants rectify this and send well trianed folks the next time.

Wonder which branch this ISI afsar belonged to? the S branch?
Reminds me of the story, of tensions between Israel and Syria. An Isreali mole became Jernail in Sria and convinced the Syrian army to plant trees near and around bunkers, so that the soldiers may enjoy a better environment. When the war broke out Israeli army simply bombed the heck out of the trees.... :P
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by vic »

The rate of Eid Mubbaraks have fallen massively in Pakistan in last 2 months. This thread is loosing its happiness quotient for me!
harbans
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by harbans »

But Shaastanga ji, control your temper and think. Shouldn't Hindu groups be helping these people rather than cursing people who are not helping?
Right Shiv Ji. There are enough institutions in India that could financially help out these children. India has given refuge in history to Jews, Parsi's, Tibetans and even Hindu's from Bangladesh. The Institutions should not pnly be able to pressure the GOI on issuing visa's but granting refugee status and paying for an education.

Shaastanga Ji better edit your post. That will get a warning for sure..doesn't help things here.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by SSridhar »

Nawaz Sharif takes Memogate to Supreme Court
Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) chief Nawaz Sharif has filed a petition in the Supreme Court over the ‘memogate’ scandal, asking for action against those responsible.

The petition, which was filed by Advocate Arshad Jadoon under article 184(3) of the constitution, seeks an inquiry into the scandal, and calls for summoning the respondents, which include: President Asif Ali Zardari, federation though secretary interior, secretary foreign affairs, former ambassador to US Husain Haqqani, Mansur Ijaz (the Pakistan-American businessmen), Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and ISI chief Lt General Ahmad Shuja Pasha. The plea states that the respondents be asked to explain the memorandum.

The PML-N chief prayed that the culprits, who were disloyal to the state as well as the people of Pakistan, must be brought to book. He also requested the court to unearth the dreadful conspiracy which, he said, ridiculed, maligned and demoralise the armed forces of Pakistan and was an attempt to trade away the sovereignty of the country.

The petition further pleaded that the person responsible or involved in initiating the process of memorandum or authoring it or providing any assistance in the process and the one who approved the act must be identified. “The ones who initiated the memorandum, the ones who rendered any help or assistance in the matter and those who blessed or approved of it are culpable for acts of high treason against the state and constitution”, it added.

Nawaz contended in his petition that the memorandum is mutinous, treasonous, shocking, repulsive and harrowing for any patriotic Pakistani. He said that an article by Mansur Ijaz was published in Financial Times more then forty days ago but not a single defamation notice was served to FT and others for publishing the story nor was any protest lodged by government of Pakistan. Neither Husain Haqqani nor President Zardari officially lodged protest against the claim of Mansur Ijaz whose claim speaks volumes of the veracity, he added.

He contended that the memorandum threatened the foundation and future of Pakistan by trading away its sovereignty for petty personal gains. He said despite his demand no steps have been taken by the competent authority to set up any independent committee or commission to look into the matter. He said he would have approached parliament to take stock of the situation but the fate of the resolutions of parliament regarding drone attacks and others compelled him to approach the Supreme Court.
Pakistan is hilarious.

The US dispatched Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte as well as its top official for South Asia, Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher several times to discuss with Gen. Musharraf and setup dialogues between him and the exiled Ms. Benazir Bhutto. Later, when another threatening situation developed in 2009 after differences developed between President Zardari and Opposition leader and one-time ally Nawaz Sharif, the US Special Envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke mentioned that luckily the situation did not go as bad as before when the US had to intervene. The WikiLeaks brought out clearly how the then Pakistani President Zardari and the PML-N Chief Nawaz Sharif thanked the Americans for their intervention.

Similarly, in 1988, when a reluctant Ghulam Ishaq Khan as the acting President was unwilling to invite Ms. Bhutto to form the Government, the US intervened and worked out a compromise by which Ms. Bhutto became the Prime Minister and Ghulam Ishaq Khan continued as the President.

Again, in circa 2002, the US effectively intervened in government formation after the sham elections conducted by Gen. Musharraf. The US supported the efforts of Gen. Musharraf and reprimanded the PPPP leader Ms. Benazir Bhutto for being obstructive.

The US involvement in the affairs of Pakistan became total in the events of circa 2007 consequent to the dismissal of the judges and the widespread agitation against Musharraf leading to a re-imposition of PCO. Upon her return, a fearful Ms. Benazir Bhutto, fearful of her life after the Karachi suicide-bomb attack on her, requested the US to personally ensure her security by deploying American forces as she did not trust the Pakistani armed forces. . The US Ambassador to Pakistan, Ms. Anne W Patterson, admitted in September 2009 that the US worked out a safe and dignified exit for Gen. Musharraf in c. 2008. When the relationship between President Zardari and PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif worsened by early 2009 and the Long March of the lawyers from Quetta, Karachi and Lahore towards Islamabad was launched on the 15th of March 2009, the US intervened through Kiyani and also through calls from Ms. Hillary Clinton to Gilani and Zardari to end the impasse.

Of course, the direct involvement of the US started in the early 50s. Gen. Ayub Khan’s military coup was condoned by the US and its Western allies because they needed to cultivate their relationship with a geostrategically important Pakistan. When President Iskander Mirza informed the US Ambassador to Pakistan James Langley on October 4, 1958 that it had been decided to have a military coup within a week, the US tried half-heartedly to fend off the coup. But, it later requested Gen. Iskander Mirza to keep the the military rule to ‘as short as necessary’. Such was the duplicity of the USA as well. Nehru’s remarkable analysis of those events stand out as he said “for the first time, dictatorial rule was established in a member country of the Commonwealth. Yet, because the new regime maintains its treaties with the West, the Western democracies have not shown the same alarm over this development as they showed in the cases of Iraq and Egypt. The Premier of Canada, for example, has expressed the belief that this is a temporary phase and that Pakistan will eventually return to democracy. Dictatorships have always been noted for their irresponsibility and their tendency to canalise all local grievances into violence against their neighbours. That is why the continuance of American and other military aid to Pakistan is regarded with apprehension by our Government. The very fact of massive military aid to Pakistan has created in that country a vested interest for the Army and undermined any opposition political party which ventured to criticise the foreign policy of the Government.”

Of course it was not the US alone that interfered so blatantly in the internal affairs of Pakistan. Saudi Arabia also had a lot of clout over Pakistan and the ruling elite always held themselves beholden to Saudi kings and officials as was witnessed in the “exile deal” issue of Nawaz Sharif and his return to Pakistan in Sep. 2007. The Chief of Saudi Intelligence, Prince Maqran bin Abdul Aziz flew down to Islamabad and addressed a televised press conference along with Saad Hariri, the son of Late Rafiq Hariri, the former Prime Minister of Lebanon. The DAWN editorially commented that with such kinds of interventions, ” We have, to say the least, made a laughing stock of ourselves.” Saudi Arabia was deeply involved in stopping Ms. Benazir Bhutto from becoming the Prime Minister of Pakistan, though the Saudi royalty had apparently assured Ms. Benazir Bhutto that the funding for such a move came from private individuals and never from the Royal House.

The Kingdom also played a huge role in enabling Nawaz Sharif, who was disqualified from contesting polls, to return to Pakistan in c. 2007. Later, in c. 2008, it again intervened to create a ‘political settlement’ in Pakistan and allow Gen. Musharraf to exit the country honourably. It was a well known secret that Pakistani rulers and politicians took the advice from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia very seriously. When several political parties, especially Nawaz Sharif’s PML-N, were talking of trying Musharraf, the Kingdom once again intervened to save him. Daily Times newspaper editorially said that Saudi Arabia’s intervention was nothing to be proud of though such ‘foreign stakeholders’ usually protected Pakistan from its own ‘excesses’

After all these, Nawaz Sharif is agitated by the loss of sovereignty of the latest memo !
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by AjayKK »

Hindu groups have diminishing influence in Hindustan, else an undercover, serving Army officer would not have been in prison for merely being Hindu and on the wrong side of secularism, their helping the Pakistani Hindus is a probability of zero? Should the groups decide to pursue citizenship in India, there exist many legal hurdles. However, as per the case of KM Talreja versus GoI - SC, 196?, the petitioner argued that Hindustan is the homeland of the Hindus and just that he had migrated post 1950 cannot be the reason for being refused citizenship. Finally, he was granted citizenship and was an excellent non-pseudo secular author.

In the link below, Vikram Sood presents yet another superb article on Indo-Pak peace process:

Assaults on India
http://www.mid-day.com/opinion/2011/nov ... -India.htm

Meanwhile, Yousuf Gilani who has completed 3 years 8 months today, becomes the third longest single-term serving PM of Pakistan standing on the podium next only to Liaqat Ali ( 4 years 2 months ) and ZA Bhutto ( 3 years 11 months), both of whom attained shahadat by LBW (Lazawal By Wajib-al-qatl or Became immortal by Wajib-al-qatl ) before completing their terms. However Yousuf Gilani seems to be a strong middle order batsman like Yousuf Youhana and may take over as the longest serving test batsman. But then few months is a long time in Pakistan ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by JE Menon »

>>The "Liberal" face is a carefully constructed facade.

Absolutely right. Sherry is just a PR prettyface being dispatched to talk the talk and mislead the Americans, with zero power, not to mention the threat of WuC if she refuses ... And she is effectively muzzled from criticising the military in the meanwhile. She serves a purpose for the time being, until they run out of women to push as their "foreign face"... They'll probably push Taseer's daughter up the foreign ministry bureaucracy next, the blind idiots, thinking no one can see through this crap!

And don't forget that Hussein Haqqani himself has ties to the ISI and once implicitly threatened terror strikes against the software sector, specifically Bangalore, in one of his articles.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Lalmohan »

and i am sure sherry-ji is more than happy to be living in DC and not be qadrified... although given the number of islamist taxi drivers in the beltway i wouldnt be too sure...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Rajdeep »

If Sherry ( will she be an equal and opposite of Mr. Brandy ! :rotfl: ) is given the job for however less amount of time she must have made a deal with groper and kiya nahi / chooha pasha.
Other than that there is no way her fortunes (?) would turn so abruptly. Just my 2 paise.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Lalmohan »

she enjoys senior patronage outside the PPP to have survived this long...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by RajeshA »

Another paint job! This time the Pakis painted a bulls-eye!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by RajeshA »

Pratyush wrote:Only in Pakistan

Pakistani woman kills, tries to cook hubby
barha namkeen tha sasura! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by CRamS »

vic wrote:The rate of Eid Mubbaraks have fallen massively in Pakistan in last 2 months. This thread is loosing its happiness quotient for me!
I've been wondering the same too. Can the experts explain this? Is this the competence of TSPA/ISI in achieving a perfect split between "good" and "bad" terrorists, and annhilating the "bad" terrorists, or is there some other dynamic. Its not even a gradual tapering off, its been a step change. Something is remiss.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by ArmenT »

ISI agent among 9 held in Kabul
KABUL (PAN): Nine individuals, including a member of Pakistan's spy service, the Inter-Service-intelligence (ISI), have been arrested by Afghan security forces in Kabul, a military commander said on Wednesday.

The men were detained two days ahead of the Loya Jirga and on the third day of the major event, Brig. Gen. Qadam Shah Shahim, head of the 111th unit of the Afghan National Army, told a news conference.
...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

Shaashtanga wrote:
sum wrote:Pak Hindus want to make Delhi their home

Shame on GoI if they don't extend visas for these Hindus and instead send them back to the hell hole... GoI has money to feed Ajmal Kasab and lets 7500 piggies to go missing in India... ** Deleted **.... The terror emanating from piggistan doesn't bother me as much as the duplicity of our own leaders & liberal elite.... Pakistan is a snake and it will always try to bite us but our leaders are stupid enough to try and appease the snake with milk & almonds rather then crushing its head...
I apologize to all for this "outburst" and probably violating forum posting guidelines. I have been a regular reader since 2007 of the TIRP thread (and later managing piggistan failure) & various other threads on this forum but i haven't been able to determine (or maybe i am just slow) what is the consensus amongst the rakshaks as to what needs to happen with piggistan (under various scenarios), for example either we agree something needs to be done (wishful thinking) or nothing needs to be done or the chai-biskoot middle path. I understand that this is a forum and there doesn't have to be a consensus about anything because we are here to discuss but lets accept the fact that all rakshaks consciously or sub-consciously want ultimate demise of piggistan so why can't we put that in writing as part of Shivji's initial post on each thread as what this forum thinks should be the end game w.r.t piggistan... I understand that in the mind of liberals (not on this board but in general) there is a thin line between being nationalistic and outright telibunny but if i were to "wish" death (not on this forum now but in any other in-person group discussion with other Indians with liberals sprinkled in good measure) to the "contemporary assorted jaichands of India" will i be considered a nationalistic or a right wing fanatic or outright telibunny (who wants to impose their own version of everything on everyone else).. My philosophy is simple, if we intend to clean the neighborhood we have to start by first cleaning our own house of the cockroaches... If anyone finds this post offensive or tasteless, please let me know and i shall delete it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Satya_anveshi »

SSji and others,

Been a long long time since Gaganulla posted. Any news / comments?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by kmkraoind »

CRamS wrote:
vic wrote:The rate of Eid Mubbaraks have fallen massively in Pakistan in last 2 months. This thread is loosing its happiness quotient for me!
I've been wondering the same too. Can the experts explain this? Is this the competence of TSPA/ISI in achieving a perfect split between "good" and "bad" terrorists, and annhilating the "bad" terrorists, or is there some other dynamic. Its not even a gradual tapering off, its been a step change. Something is remiss.
I am no expert on this. IMO, all these Eid Mubbaraks are TSP exports (good and bad). Now US is scrutinizing the invoices strictly and now its not an ATM at all.

Pakistan amongst most violent, unstable nations: Republican presidential candidates - TOI]
While Texas governor vowed to cut down US aid to Pakistan to zero till it helped US meet its national security interests against terrorists, two other Republican candidates Jon Huntsman and Newt Gingrich argued in favour of more drone attacks against terrorists inside Pakistan.

Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, however, argued in favour of continued engagement with Pakistan given that it was a nuclear weapon state.
Once crown jewels are gone, Pakistan will become TFTA Somalia.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by derkonig »

Shaashtanga wrote:My philosophy is simple, if we intend to clean the neighborhood we have to start by first cleaning our own house of the cockroaches... If anyone finds this post offensive or tasteless, please let me know and i shall delete it.
There is nothing offensive in your post, only non-Indics & WKKs will get their panties in a twist over this, sadly BRf has plenty of these species. You are absolutely right that our house needs massive cleansing, but such opinions are not popular even on a supposedly nationalistic BRf. It is worrying how deep people can be in denial about what needs to be done right now.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by ramana »

S, You need to couch your message in non inflammatory language and throw in some babbling stuff. More important to make you thoughts read by others. The message is lost if it uses incorrect language.
Such language will trigger those who get offended an drown the message.
So re-word the message.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by CRamS »

kmkraoind:

The IQ level among those republican toadies who supposedly "debated" foreign policy would barely touch room temperature in Celcius. You don't understand how US works. The difference between public babbling and actual private dealings will make even hard core dictators seem like they are leveling with their people.

As for Michele Bachman, she is one those mouthpiece bimbos trotted out and propped by the military/church establishment as an anti-dote to genuinely smart, independent, intellectual women who might question established order. I am sure if a TFTA terrorist like Headley charms her, then asks her out to a bar, and finally demands from her the needful later that night in the hotel room, she would oblige in a heartbeat. So much for her ability to discern Paki duplicity. In fact, thats exactly how the TFTA ISI/TSPA honchos would characterize her even as the would contemptuously dismiss her silly rants with the choicest of Urdu expletives. In fact, they might welcome her robotic narration of what was told to her by the CIA/Pentagon bosses about the need for Paki engagement because they have nukes.

And the ISI/TSPA honchos also know that the real target of CIA/Pentagon/State dept/think tanks on non-proliferation is not the Chinese-made, painted green nukes stacked underground in TSP (which they know they acquired with a wink, wink, nod nod approvals from the CIA/Pentagon), but the nukes or even the ability to make them, in the hands of the smelly, dirty, blackie, smarty SDRE Hindus next door. Nobody knows it more than them that the corner stone of US policy is to box us SDREs in an India == TSP South Asia framework.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

ramana wrote:S, You need to couch your message in non inflammatory language and throw in some babbling stuff. More important to make you thoughts read by others. The message is lost if it uses incorrect language.
Such language will trigger those who get offended an drown the message.
So re-word the message.
Ramana saar, do you want me to edit my second message as well? I am asking coz SS sir already deleted the offensive part from my first message and issued me a warning. I am sorry but i really don't know how to re-word my first or second message. I can delete both if you want. I again apologize if I offended anyone.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

derkonig wrote:
Shaashtanga wrote:My philosophy is simple, if we intend to clean the neighborhood we have to start by first cleaning our own house of the cockroaches... If anyone finds this post offensive or tasteless, please let me know and i shall delete it.
There is nothing offensive in your post, only non-Indics & WKKs will get their panties in a twist over this, sadly BRf has plenty of these species. You are absolutely right that our house needs massive cleansing, but such opinions are not popular even on a supposedly nationalistic BRf. It is worrying how deep people can be in denial about what needs to be done right now.
Thanks you sir, for the support. I thought I was alone in my stance. My motherland continues to be violated both from inside & outside and I feel like a napunsak.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Cosmo_R »

RajeshA wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Only in Pakistan

Pakistani woman kills, tries to cook hubby
barha namkeen tha sasura! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Coq Au Vain?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Cosmo_R »

shiv wrote: But Shaastanga ji, control your temper and think. Shouldn't Hindu groups be helping these people rather than cursing people who are not helping?
Exactly! Why does NaMo not jump in on this? Or the SS stalwarts? Shiv is spot on. Where is organized Hindu Charity? I mean I don't exactly see the Hindu Business Moguls falling all over themselves to help these people as Jewish ones would with displaced Jews.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

Cosmo_R wrote:
shiv wrote: But Shaastanga ji, control your temper and think. Shouldn't Hindu groups be helping these people rather than cursing people who are not helping?
Exactly! Why does NaMo not jump in on this? Or the SS stalwarts? Shiv is spot on. Where is organized Hindu Charity? I mean I don't exactly see the Hindu Business Moguls falling all over themselves to help these people as Jewish ones would with displaced Jews.
Just playing the devil's advocate here, NaMo / SS Stalwarts might be thinking that if they try to help before the central govt does then everyone (Media / WKK / liberals etc) may blame them for politicizing the issue and using it for political mileage... I am not sure though if it is the responsibility of Central govt or NaMo / SS stalwart's to help these Hindu's from Pak.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Cosmo_R »

Shaashtanga wrote: Exactly! Why does NaMo not jump in on this? Or the SS stalwarts? Shiv is spot on. Where is organized Hindu Charity? I mean I don't exactly see the Hindu Business Moguls falling all over themselves to help these people as Jewish ones would with displaced Jews.
Just playing the devil's advocate here, NaMo / SS Stalwarts might be thinking that if they try to help before the central govt does then everyone (Media / WKK / liberals etc) may blame them for politicizing the issue and using it for political mileage... I am not sure though if it is the responsibility of Central govt or NaMo / SS stalwart's to help these Hindu's from Pak.

"I am not sure though if it is the responsibility of Central govt or NaMo / SS stalwart's to help these Hindu's from Pak."
So whose is it? Shiv's point stands. Because they are Hindus, they cannot be helped by a 'secular' Indian state which has a Hindu majority because that would be non secular.
"NaMo / SS Stalwarts might be thinking that if they try to help before the central govt does then everyone (Media / WKK / liberals etc) may blame them for politicizing the issue and using it for political mileage.."
I suggest we are fried if this is true. No use railing against pakis or GoI if we can't rustle up NGOs to publicize and get this out front and center.

BTW, if NaMo and SS et al are so scared of doing this, who will actually vote for them? It's all about having courage of your convictions. No?

Who can attack NaMo if he says: "Come to Gujarat, we will provide for you." Any attack could be met by the people who benefit and who wonder on media why why the UPA/WKK crowd see their salvation as wrong.

IIUC, Shiv's point is Hindus talk loudly and carry a small drooping twig. It's always someone else's responsibility to do the right thing.

Doesn't happen.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by shiv »

Shaashtanga wrote:
derkonig wrote: There is nothing offensive in your post, only non-Indics & WKKs will get their panties in a twist over this, sadly BRf has plenty of these species. You are absolutely right that our house needs massive cleansing, but such opinions are not popular even on a supposedly nationalistic BRf. It is worrying how deep people can be in denial about what needs to be done right now.
Thanks you sir, for the support. I thought I was alone in my stance. My motherland continues to be violated both from inside & outside and I feel like a napunsak.
Shaashtanga. In fact rage comes across as the statement of a napunsak, and when you go back to normality after that, your rant will be seen as the outer limit of your ability to react and can only be mocked. So when one is impotent, rage is the worst possible reaction.

Have you looked at the thread I started in the hijab-foreplay forum? When you take a population and convince them that they are the worst, the lowest and the least, impotent rage is about as far as they can go and the talk is "revenge revenge revenge" to a degree that is not practicable, and the inability to take that revenge is seen as further proof of napunsakness of th "worst, lowest and least" people of the world. That is where you are headed. No personal insult is intended.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by SSridhar »

The transfer of arms or technology or conducting exercises between PA & PLA has been very recent and not significant (except for the nuclear weapons and missiles which the PA controls). On the other hand, PLAN or PLAAF have played more significant roles with PN & PAF. So, why is GoP recognizing this PLA General ?
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Mr. Jinnah - a hypocrite?

Post by member_20501 »

Mr. Jinnah bears the responsibility for the seperation of Pakistan from India. Seventy years after the independence this is one the debated why did the seperation happen. Many Indian, Pakistan and European contemplated several theories on why and how the split happen and what are the side effects in historical and political sense.

Mr. Jinnah born on Dec 25, 1976 was a Muslim lawyer, politician, statesman and the founder of Pakistan. After completing his matriculation from University of Bombay, he left for England to become a lawyer. Western influnces were great on Mr. Jinnah, uptil until eventual split of India, he only wore western clothes. It is even alleged that he never wore the same silk toe twice. He mostly spoke in Gujrati and English until the time he started demanding the partition. Later, he switched to speaking exclusively in Urdu within his congregation.

Mr. Jinnah at the age 16 married for the first time to his distant cousin, Emibai Jinnah who unfortunately died just few months into marriage. Later at the age of 42, he fell in love with Rattanbai Petit, a Parsi. This would have a norm and nothing out of extraordinary that an elites in India married on basis of love and not base it on religion. But the hypocrisy comes when Mr. Jinnah then opposes the love relationship and eventual marriage of his daughter, Dina with Parsi-born Christian businessman, Neville Wadia.The opposition not based on the character of his son-in-law, but because he belonged to Parsi religion. Mahommedali Currim Chagla, who was Jinnah's assistant at the time, recalls: "Jinnah, in his usual imperious manner, told her that there were millions of Muslim boys in India, and she could have anyone she chose. Reminding her father that his wife (Dina's mother Rattanbai), had also been a non-Muslim, the young lady replied: 'Father, there were millions of Muslim girls in India. Why did you not marry one of them?' And he replied that, 'she became a Muslim'". Dina's eventual relationship was constrained by her father who broke all relationship with her. What a wonderful father? Or, may I say does it highlight the character flaw, as in the old idiom, Do as I say, not as I do!

In 1920, Mohandas Gandhi launched unsuccessful Non-cooperation movement. Most Indian elites not directly affiliated to the crown joined in and showed their support to the cause. Few notable exceptions were Mr. Jinnah who broke with Congress because he thought that is unlawful to do so. Playing safe, ein't he?

During final years of struggle, many attempts were made by the British, Indian Congress to reconile the differences between the Muslim league. Mr. Jinnah contemplated that after the British leave India, India will be left with more than 50% Hindus and hence Hindus will have permanent majority. There are various statistics regarding the population of united India before Independence. The most common figure quoted is 60% Hindus and 35% Muslims. Mr. Jinnah forwarded a suggestion the electoral votes be used for determining majority and that 60% of Hindus would only have 50% electoral votes and 35% of Muslims should have remaining 50% electoral votes. Ofcourse, fairly balanced as he was, he completely ignored any accomodation for Sikhs, Christians, Parsis, Jains or Bhuddhists. To a mere mortal like Nehru or Patel, this seemed highly hypocritical, one the one side, Mr. Jinnah was talking about inequity and was far more anxious of arrangement like this?

Gandhi who was trying very hard to hold India together was willing to offer to Jinnah, the Prime Ministership eventhough that he held only 16% of the votes in United India election. Thankfully Patel and Nehru wondered that Jinnah was blackmailing on the threat of partition with barely 16% of the votes, how would he behave once the British leaves. Would be consider making himself the supreme leader after the independence of India on constant threat of "Direct Action" as was illustrated by him in Calcutta in 1946. Jinnah's hardball eventually found no keepers and greater mistrust ensued between Muslim league and Congress. Hence, the idea was floated for weak center and powerful states, with states having rights to leave whenever they choose, this was vehemently opposed by Congress.

The talk of split before the formation of a country and acts of terrorism instigated by "Direct Action" and similar behaviors by agitating his followers folks of danger to the religion in united India, that in United India, Hindus will hold the gun to forcefully convert Muslims to Hindus. This is funny saying considering other than handful of Muslim rulers, most of them destroyed Hindu temples to convert them into Mosques, forcing people to additional taxes because they are not Muslims, or prosecuting them because any Kafir is unwelcome. If this is not hypocrisy what is?

Mr. Jinnah's close friends considered him to secular and having liberal views. He was considered to like the Western cultural aspects and found himself communicating even with the local folks exclusively in English. When such an individual later wants to divide the country into two based on religion, what should any one think? What else could be the reason? I often heard the most important reason that the jobs were not given to Muslims as Hindus were preferred by British. If one could bring down their shades, and wonder how come Mr. Jinnah, a Muslim was able to practice law successfully without any problem. Others would may say, he was the exception than the rule. For this my answer is pretty simple, if a job requires degree, a mere fact that someone is Muslim won't adjure them of having minimal requirements.Up untill the division of India, comparatively speaking, vast majority of Muslims did not care to learn English or get the appropriate qualifications for a job. Could it be possible this is the reason. Ofcourse, not! That seems to be too obvious! It has to be something else!

Finally, as per the desire of Mr. Jinnah, part of India was split into East and West Pakistan. Mr. Jinnah retained the complete power structure and sole power center proclaiming himself as the Governer-General. If this is not an act of power struggle, rather than selfless act for the fight for the protection of Muslim minority, then what is?

In his first speech after independence, Mr. Jinnah said "In course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims". If that is so, why then Pakistan? Also, I wondered whether he allowed for 50% electoral stake for minority Hindus that formed more than 25% of population in Pakistan. Ofcourse not, just like I would have assumed.

In the independent Pakistan, East Pakistan formed slightly more than 50% of the population, but in his cabinet recommendations, Bengalis formed the minoity partners. This form of discrimination increased further in the passing years, eventually split the country into two- namely, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

After Jinnah's death, this behavior was emulated by military generals on a pattern of continuous toppling of democratic governments in Pakistan. Can somebody blame the General for not looking upto their founder and following his path?

Are Indians generally better off with current state borders, I could easily vouch that most Indians born after two decades of Independence are quite satisfied with outcome. Part of India that split into Pakistan, eventually become the largest contributor of terrorism in the neighborhood and globe and the other part, Bangladesh, would form most distressed part of the world with constant flooding and drought sometimes happening at the same time in different parts of its country, meanwhile India is slowly moving ahead to take its place as a global player.

Source: http://pakistankamatlabkya.blogspot.com ... crite.html
Last edited by SSridhar on 25 Nov 2011 07:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please use quotes when quoting from others. Otherwise, it will be mistaken these were your comments.
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