Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

partha · Post by **partha** » 26 Nov 2011 16:39

US attack happened before also: OBL operation, drone strikes. What's new?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 Nov 2011 16:41

ISAF chief Allen offers condolences to TSPA.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Nov 2011 16:41

Bah, nothing will come off it. NATO will claim its a rogue op by a temporarily non-stated NATO unit only. All is well now. Peace and bhai-chara-ghotala.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 Nov 2011 16:49

Statement of incident - from ISAF official website
thoroughly confusing. This statement raises more questions than an answer. Trying to read between the lines...

KABUL, Afghanistan (September 30) – Early this morning, International Security Assistance Force observed what it believed was a group of insurgents attempting to fire mortars at a coalition base in the border area of Dand Patan district, Paktiya Province. An ISAF air weapons team was called to provide fire support and engaged the suspected insurgents' firing position, located inside Afghanistan along the border area. ISAF aircraft did enter into Pakistani airspace briefly as they engaged this initial target.

After the initial strike, the aircraft received what the crews assessed as effective small arms fire from individuals just across the border in Pakistan. Operating in self defense, the ISAF aircraft entered into Pakistani airspace killing several armed individuals.

Subsequently, Pakistan military officials informed ISAF that members of their border forces in the area had been struck by coalition aircraft.

ISAF and Pakistani forces are reviewing the operational reporting to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts in this case, and we will work together to fully investigate this incident.

Both sides have in mind that it is the insurgents, operating on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and violating the territorial sovereignty of both countries, that we are focused on fighting.

ISAF conveys our sincere condolences to the Pakistani military and the families of those who were killed or injured.

So in short NATO choppers received fire (from whom??) and in self defence killed whoever was on the ground firing on them, apparently paki soldiers! And now ISAF is offering condolences!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Nov 2011 16:58

^^^

Is that effective balm for the wounded Paki. Or is this salt in the wound.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 Nov 2011 16:59

Now that pakis have a reason to block the NATO supply, they can claim extortion $$ to resume it.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 26 Nov 2011 17:00

The confusion is intentional.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Nov 2011 17:06

US is most effective against the Pakis, when it uses all three on Paki wounds - the knives, the salt and the balm!

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 Nov 2011 17:12

read ISAF statement on Oct 2010 incident which killed 3 pakis

“We believe the Pakistani border guard was simply firing warning shots after hearing the nearby engagement and hearing the helicopters flying nearby,” said U.S. Air Force Brig. Gen. Tim Zadalis, ISAF IJC director of air plans and assessment team leader. “This tragic event could have been avoided with better coalition force coordination with the Pakistan military.”

“ISAF offers its deepest sympathy and condolences to the families of those killed and wounded, to the Pakistan military, and the people of Pakistan,” said ISAF Commander General David H. Petraeus. “We deeply regret this tragic loss of life and will continue to work with the Pakistan military and government to ensure this doesn’t happen again.”

And it does happen again

, exact same incident, but this time much more are dispatched to meet 72.

Question to gurus, is it a military code to fire in the air to warn incoming friendly helicopters of your presence?

partha · Post by **partha** » 26 Nov 2011 17:17

Just because they were NATO helis doesn't mean they were NATO helis. Pakistan should provide reliable proof of NATO involvement

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Nov 2011 17:19

abhijitm wrote:Statement of incident - from ISAF official website
thoroughly confusing. This statement raises more questions than an answer. Trying to read between the lines...
KABUL, Afghanistan (September 30) – Early this morning, International Security Assistance Force observed what it believed was a group of insurgents attempting to fire mortars at a coalition base in the border area of Dand Patan district, Paktiya Province. An ISAF air weapons team was called to provide fire support and engaged the suspected insurgents' firing position, located inside Afghanistan along the border area. ISAF aircraft did enter into Pakistani airspace briefly as they engaged this initial target.

After the initial strike, the aircraft received what the crews assessed as effective small arms fire from individuals just across the border in Pakistan. Operating in self defense, the ISAF aircraft entered into Pakistani airspace killing several armed individuals.

Subsequently, Pakistan military officials informed ISAF that members of their border forces in the area had been struck by coalition aircraft.

ISAF and Pakistani forces are reviewing the operational reporting to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts in this case, and we will work together to fully investigate this incident.

Both sides have in mind that it is the insurgents, operating on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and violating the territorial sovereignty of both countries, that we are focused on fighting.

ISAF conveys our sincere condolences to the Pakistani military and the families of those who were killed or injured.
So in short NATO choppers received fire (from whom??) and in self defence killed whoever was on the ground firing on them, apparently paki soldiers! And now ISAF is offering condolences!!

One now remembers another incident, happened sometime back, which was posted here with a link.

NATO forces were being attacked in Agfhanistan.The firing was from the Paki side and emanating from close to a Pakistani post. The NATO Commander spoke to his Paki counterpart and asked WTF was happening? The Paki officer replied that there were no Paki soldiers and that the PA had abandoned the post. The NATO commander took no further action. If I had been him, I would have pulverised that spot. (And sure enough a lot of PA would have met their ugliest 72s)

In this case, one doesn't know the detailed sequence of events. But am sure ISAF would have retaliated and if they were fired upon by anyone, would have shot first and asked questions later.

To me, it seems the PA is using the same tactics that they utilise to inject terrorists across our border. Unfortunately, we do not take the PA out too. We concentrate on the insurgents.

A person working with an NGO in Afghanistan told me that the ISAF crosses the border at will with their Afghan counterparts. Probably as long as the PA keeps out of the way then everyone keeps quiet. After all the PA's mush tarnished H&D is most important. Here, in the dark, instead of the PA talking to the ISAF and asking what is happening, they decided to shoot first and were rewarded with telling answers.

Condolences are just words. As empty as chai biskoot sessions.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 26 Nov 2011 17:34

"Nato apologised for that incident, which it said happened when Nato gunships mistook warning shots by the Pakistani forces for a militant attack."
http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/26/eight-pa ... ttack.html

Seems that unkil is not willing to accept bullsheet..I would expect more such incidents in the future, as unkil has little to loose in the presence of an impending withdrawl/troop reduction from Afghanistan.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 26 Nov 2011 17:37

^^^ the article is referring to Oct 2010 incident. So far only "condolences" for this attack.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 26 Nov 2011 17:42

Pakistan stops NATO supplies after raid kills 'up to 25' troops

YAKKAGHUND: NATO helicopters attacked a military checkpoint in northwest Pakistan on Saturday, killing up to 25 troops and prompting Pakistan to shut the vital supply route for NATO troops fighting in Afghanistan, Pakistani officials said.

The attack comes as relations between the United States and Pakistan, its ally in the war on terror, are already badly strained following the killing of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a secret raid on the Pakistani garrison town of Abbottabad in May.

Pakistan called that raid a flagrant violation of its sovereignty.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Nov 2011 17:55

From the Nut Case and posted in full:

Spreading Two-Nation Theory message need of hour Published: November 26, 2011

MULTAN/LAHORE - Speakers at ‘Pakistan Paendabad Conference’ held under the aegis of Nazria Pakistan Trust (NPT) on Friday, were unanimous on the point that it was vital to propagate the message of Two-Nation Theory in every nook and corner to save the country.

They warned that ideological warriors of Pakistan will throw out Qabaza mafia and opportunists if they tried to use country’s resources for personal benefits. They lamented that Qabza mafia disseminated doctrine of necessity setting aside the ideology of Pakistan.

Addressing the conference, former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that era of the politics of right and left had passed by and now was the time only for ‘right and right politics’. He alleged that PM Gilani and President Zardari got votes in the name of Benazir Bhutto and later betrayed her cause.

While addressing Pakistan Paendabad Conference at Multan, he threw a challenge on Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, asking him to contest bye-election from NA-148 against him to test his popularity. PM Gilani would come to know about his popularity and status if he dared face him in the bye-election on the seat he has vacated recently.

“I assure him that I would not demand his resignation if he lost the election,” the former foreign minister said while addressing to the prime minister. He (PM) was also free to use official resources to run his election campaign, he said. “However, I am telling him before time that defeat had become his fate”, Qureshi averred.

He also dared the government to stop his November 23 rally to be held at Ghotki (Sindh) if it had the courage. He said he would address the rally at any cost. He repeated his allege that President Zardari pressurised him for clearing way for the release of Raymond Davis, “but I refused to oblige him”.

Qureshi lauded the role of Nazria Pakistan Trust in propagation of Pakistan’s ideology. “Mujahid-i-Pakistan, Mr Majid Nizami has always played positive role for country’s solidarity and integrity”, he said, adding that no power on earth could stop Pakistan from becoming a super power if he (Majid Nizami) succeeded in disseminating the message of Ideology of Pakistan. He alleged that inefficient rulers had weakened Kashmir cause by deviating from Pakistan’s principled stance on the issue.

In his telephonic address to the conference, The Nation Editor-in-Chief and NPT Chairman Majid Nizami said that he wished to see a united Muslim League because it was the mother political parties of Pakistan.

He held that the purpose to hold such conferences in various cities of Pakistan was to create awareness among the people about Pakistan Ideology. “We are telling people that Pakistan will live on the globe till the doomsday,” he asserted.

NPT Forum Multan had organised the conference. Majid Nizami congratulated the forum for successfully arranging the event. People from various walks of life attended the moot.

“Quaid-i-Azam wanted to make Pakistan an Islamic welfare democratic state according to the vision of Allama Muhammad Iqbal,” he held. Majid Nizami reiterated that India has been hatching conspiracies to turn the Pakistani land into desert, adding India could be stopped from going ahead with such bad plans only by the use of power. He suggested: “We should not avoid using atomic weapon against the India.”

He told the participants about the series of Livelong Pakistan Conference organised by the NPT forums in Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindia, Islamabad, Sialkot, Nankana Sahib and Mirpur. Though Multan was the city of feudal lords yet they played great role in Pakistan Movement, he said.

Majid Nizami referred to various speeches of the founder of Pakistan and said that Quaid wanted to establish an Islamic state and not the state for the affluent people and for feudal lords. But after his early death and due to the martyrdom of Liaqat Ali Khan later, the Muslim League split into different factions and it still remained divided. He said that he wanted to see a united league because it was the mother political party of Pakistan.

Speaking on the occasion, NPT Vice-chairman Dr Rafique Ahmad said that country was under the grip of different mafias which had stopped the wheels of development. Dr Rafique said that Pakistan Paendabad Conference had provided a platform to the disillusioned youth to protect Pakistan Ideology.

Muhammad Ali Durrani said that holding of such conferences was indicative of the fact that at least one institution was struggling to save the country without the thought of any loss or gain.

Mohtarma Majida Wyne said that country was going through crucial phase but Majid Nizami was struggling to give hope to the nation by inculcating the spirit of Pakistan Ideology in the minds of country’s youth.

Senator Javed Ali Shah said that successive martial laws in the country proved to be a great set back to Two-Nation Theory which was ignored by the military rulers. Dr Hameed Raza Siddique said that it was necessary to spread the message of Two-Nation Theory and highlight the sacrifices of Muslims to keep the country intact.

Various resolutions were passed on the occasion. The government was demanded not to grant MFN status to India until the solution of Kashmir issue as per the wishes of Kashmiris. The government was also asked to ban the ‘Amn ki Aasha’ movement and to include the Pakistan Ideology into the educational curriculum at all level. (Thanks for listening to BR) Immediate settlement of the flood affected people and release of Dr Afia Siddique from American jail was also demanded.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Nov 2011 18:20

If a person who subscribes to such ideas as 'no MFN' to India or who praises the person who wishes to nuke India was the Foreign Minister, one can understand how futile it is to discuss peace with Pakistan even by 'going more than half the distance' or even after absorbing another dozen 26/11-like attacks (God forbid). There is no Chankian cleverness in the tactics of GoI.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Nov 2011 18:44

^^^If GoI is indeed signalling utter and complete helplessness in the face of 26/11, what then stops Pak from mounting a few more 26/11s I wonder.

The risk of Dilli going to war over yet another few dozen aam aadmi lives is almost zero anyway. Besides, non-state actors are available aplenty to absorb blame and bask in its glory.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Nov 2011 19:37

DoCJi, GuptaJi, after this atack on TSP and then "apologizing", do you guys still believe US is as "chanakyan" as MMSJi is in dealing with TSP? I saw a headline on TimesNow, India (read MMS) pleads with TSP to bring the perpetrators of 26/11 to justice.Should we laugh or cry?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 26 Nov 2011 19:42

Suppiah wrote:now the toll is 28 sent to their 72..

Correction: 28 sent to meet their 72-year old virgins. What a shocker!

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 26 Nov 2011 19:45

I doubt this incident/ event will be subdued by just blocking NATO tankers. The mango Abdul is baying for blood. Same sentiment would be felt in the lowest levels of the PA/ PN/ PAF. The Generals will have to be shown doing something more. They might even make a public announcement of withdrawal in the WOT. There is going to be a lot of anger now diverted inwards..towards the leaders, Zardari more so. There is no easy exit from this one for the Paki.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 26 Nov 2011 20:07

harbans wrote:I doubt this incident/ event will be subdued by just blocking NATO tankers. The mango Abdul is baying for blood. Same sentiment would be felt in the lowest levels of the PA/ PN/ PAF. The Generals will have to be shown doing something more. They might even make a public announcement of withdrawal in the WOT. There is going to be a lot of anger now diverted inwards..towards the leaders, Zardari more so. There is no easy exit from this one for the Paki.

Ya, there is one very easy way out and it would save a lot of H&D too. Just send some yahoos to blow up another NATO outpost or a wave of Taliban attack to take out NATO convoys. Well, they can always say later, since your helos took out our border posts, now the Yahoos have a free hand, want to take revenge, here's your bill for $$(inclusive of the charges of yahoos/pa's blown up/suicide bombers/Taliban).

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 26 Nov 2011 20:17

IED Mubarak Major non-NATO ally

This news is a little soothing, especially since its 26/11

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 26 Nov 2011 20:22

Ya, there is one very easy way out and it would save a lot of H&D too. Just send some yahoos to blow up another NATO outpost or a wave of Taliban attack to take out NATO convoys. Well, they can always say later, since your helos took out our border posts, now the Yahoos have a free hand, want to take revenge,

No, that has already been happening. The PA Yahoo's that got their 72 would probably have been assisting sneaking in or out of some of the other Yahoo's. Here the difference is that the PA is to be seen taking some action on NATO forces. Not just blocking supplies. The bunnies have been attacking NATO since the party began. H&D is only redeemed now if Kiyanahi walks away from WOT. For some face saving time at least. Otherwise to divert attention now that memogate is taking backstage a nice good 26-11 type thingie in India. Noting to unite the Yahoo's better. These 2 items would be being discussed by the PA top elite in their meeting now.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Nov 2011 20:27

HarbansJi,

I doubt it. US will find someway of restoring TSPA's H&D. Of course, there will be a lot of huffing & puffing. But thats about it. But I feel pathetic thought, enjoying the TSP's schadenfreude when it is India that should be extracting a price from TSP for all its malevolence against us.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Nov 2011 20:31

I truly believe that a Crore Commandus meeting will be hastily called.

I am also certain that ISAF will publicly call it a mistake and regret the friendly fire. Maybe it was, but maybe it wasn't. We know that for the past so many years the bumbling Amreeki politicians have kept their troops on a leash.

On us bending backwards for the TSP. I also believe that our rulers are bumblers.

So I applaud when the mango abdul in the streets of Porkistan wants to ban the Aman Ki Tamasha, and wants to deny us MFN status. Though in a chanaakyan way both can be a double edged sword. But let us think our rulers are bumblers.

Add to that the bumbling rulers on the porki side with their Maadrassa math and Lawhori logix. Add to that the fact that their western borders are now a hotspot. Where they could park their posteriors safely and face east towards us. And all of a sudden, Kaboom, a surprise Gubo. That will hurt for a long time.

Now is this major 72 recycled virgin meeting related to the "wrong" Hackney memogate problem? Who knows!

Therefore, what me worry. With credit to Mad Magazine!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Nov 2011 20:35

more than likely rules of engagement have been changed on the ground - i.e. if you take hostile fire, you can fire back

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 26 Nov 2011 20:39

Strat reporting..
"Pakistan: Casualties Likely Caused By NATO - Spokesman

November 26, 2011
NATO forces were “highly likely” responsible for the deaths of Pakistani soldiers after NATO planes were called in for air support during an incident near the Afghan-Pakistani border, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said Nov. 26, Reuters reported. NATO is aware of Pakistani casualties, but does not know the number or magnitude of the incident, the spokesman said."

Seems that the helos received fire and they called in the planes. Rules of engagement have certainly changed.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Nov 2011 20:46

Kiya Nahin at his action packed best (from Geo)

The Pakistan’s military will take serious action if any Nato attack took place in its territory, said a statement issued here on Saturday. The statement noted that Army Chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has strongly condemned the Nato attack in Mohmand Agency and ordered the military to make arrangements to retaliate such irresponsible action befittingly. The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in the statement that as many as 24 military officials were killed and 13 others injured in the Nato strike. The statement noted that the Nato choppers and jets opened unprovoked fire on Pakistan military check-post in the midnight.

The question, I would like to see answered is, what were the helos doing on the Paki side? We all know that the US seals take part in many raids which we do not hear about and neither do the Pakis say anything.

My POV is this got out of hand and resulted in a very hard Jhappad for the Porkis.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 26 Nov 2011 20:50

Retards at it again...so called friends across the border. Pukes have already mutated their DNA a generation ago and their new generation is already carrying that gene and there is nothing in the world that would stop hating India.. Lol.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/13078.html

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 26 Nov 2011 20:56

I just congratulated Aam Joe on CNN a few minutes back..thanked them that i felt good they did this on the 3rd Anniv of 26-11. Got 7 'likes' by the time i refreshed the page..

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 26 Nov 2011 22:04

Shun Iran pipeline, open up to India: US to Pakistan

The US asks Pakistan to quit from the Pak-Iran gas pipeline project, saying Tehran is not a “reliable partner”, as it advises Islamabad to “open up” to India.
Urging Pakistan not to forge partnerships with Iran, US Ambassador Cameron Munter suggested it would be better if Pakistan focussed on another project (TAPI) to import gas from Turkmenistan via Afghanistan.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 26 Nov 2011 22:07

Pakistan’s soft image

I am surprised by all this talk of portraying a ‘soft image’ of Pakistan that the vested interests want us to believe would serve us better. Our soft image was not served when our foreign minister, on an official visit to India, showed off her expensive handbag and diamond necklace which created a needless controversy – something that could have been easily avoided. Our image suffers when our elected and paid public servants choose to stay at the most expensive hotels at state expense on their useless foreign junkets, while hundreds of thousands of our countrymen have been displaced by floods. India’s soft image is reflected by a plainly-dressed railways minister, who turned the railways department around; a prime minister with commitment and loyalty to his motherland and a president attired in Indian-made dresses. When a serving Indian general is punished for corruption, and those caught in tax evasion prosecuted regardless of their political clout or status, it serves to project the image of a responsible democratic government.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 26 Nov 2011 22:11

Pakistani rupee closes near its record low; stocks down

The rupee ended at 87.75/80 to the dollar, weaker than Thursday's close of 87.64/67, but still shy of its record low of 87.92 in September.

However in the TOM (one-day forward) market, it traded at 87.95 according to dealers.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Nov 2011 23:22

CRamS, there has been cross-border firing between India and Pakistan for the longest time. But for you somehow one ISAF cross-border attack is something amazing?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 26 Nov 2011 23:28

A_Gupta wrote:CRamS, there has been cross-border firing between India and Pakistan for the longest time. But for you somehow one ISAF cross-border attack is something amazing?

Well this one involved helicopters crossing the border. It violated Pacquistan's sovirginity.... killing jihadis in *uniform*

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Nov 2011 23:48

As per Al Jazeera, Porkis have asked Amreekis to vacate Shamsi air base in 15 days.

Drawing attention to their sovirginity which has been continuously violated 24/7.

saip · Post by **saip** » 26 Nov 2011 23:49

This appears to be the fall out of the attack But weren't the americans supposed to leave it anyway?
This appears to be rather swift decision.

Pakistan asks US to vacate Shamsi airbase within 15 days

closed Nato supply lines into Afghanistan permanently

How permanent is this permanency? Only time will tell.

Link

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Nov 2011 23:52

Pak asking the US to vaccate the shamshi air base within 15 days.

Scrolling news on undietv.

Pak to review military and intelligence cooperation with NATO.

The melt down begins.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 26 Nov 2011 23:54

pgbhat wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:CRamS, there has been cross-border firing between India and Pakistan for the longest time. But for you somehow one ISAF cross-border attack is something amazing?
Well this one involved helicopters crossing the border. It violated Pacquistan's sovirginity.... killing jihadis in *uniform*

^^At least India never had to apologize for it!

Every time some slap is given to the Pakis, and they cry howl on sovereignty, there is hope that it would be different from the previous ones and either side would take action. Well, its not going to happen, I would rather go with the analysis of Shiv! The sovereignty of the Pakis was taken away long time back and the biggest slap was the OBL raid, if the crisis didn't escalate to war at that point of time, then chances are very less it would now. It was the biggest window for them to act tough and it had the popular support too. This thing is getting repeated again and again, and by logic it should have the same outcome, ie nothing! If something really does, well its a win-win one, and if it doesn't atleast I am not pinning my hopes on it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Nov 2011 23:55

pgbhat wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:CRamS, there has been cross-border firing between India and Pakistan for the longest time. But for you somehow one ISAF cross-border attack is something amazing?
Well this one involved helicopters crossing the border. It violated Pacquistan's sovirginity.... killing jihadis in *uniform*

Yes, Indian fire never hit any Pakistani in uniform.