A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

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RajeshA
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A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 02 Nov 2011 14:08

I am starting a new thread. Yes! One more thread to discuss Pakistan.

I think, that while the "Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan" Thread is a good thread to discuss politics, security and ideology related issues, related to Pakistan, I often find that news links which are commentary on the Pakistani society, either by Pakistanis themselves or by Indians, to be somewhat out of place, and not really relevant to that thread.

I am proposing this thread as a dedicated thread to discuss and analyze Pakistani society.

There seem to be a lot of self-flagellation going on in Pakistan relating to the social mores of Pakistanis, their attitudes, etc. I think all that self-flagellation needs a home! :wink:

Then there are many stories about corruption, nepotism, malpractices in sports, etc. coming out of Pakistan. This thread can also serve as a database for such stories.

Basically this thread is about criticism of Pakistan by Pakistanis.

In case the Mods think differently, please use Dronacharya!
Last edited by RajeshA on 02 Nov 2011 14:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pakistani Society - Analysis

Postby RajeshA » 02 Nov 2011 14:12



Sheikh Rasheed, a former Pakistani Minister, on Pakistan's image abroad. Also Hassan Nisar, a columnist, makes a scathing attack on Pakistan!

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 02 Nov 2011 14:31

Hassan Nisar: Rotten State of Pakistan 1/3


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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby Altair » 02 Nov 2011 15:56

There was a thread with something "Towels..." long back. I cannot even remember the actual thread name. It was started with the same purpose. Anyone remember what I am referring to?

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby abhischekcc » 02 Nov 2011 16:59

Pakistan - A collection of towels :mrgreen: or something

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby Philip » 02 Nov 2011 18:29

Just a suggestion guys.We have a multiplicity of threads on Pak,the US,etc.This topic would be best moved to the Socio-Eco Forum,so that we could remain focussed upon strategic and military affairs here.Or else,post an occcasional piece in the Paki TSP thread.Fewere threads for each country would allow us to access a wider spread of thought which relates to the main thrust of the topic.

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 02 Nov 2011 18:41

Philip ji,

This thread is basically meant to show how far Pakistan and Pakistani society has degenerated, and that too in the words of Pakistanis themselves.

When we speak of Pakistan as a failed state, this thread is supposed to give us feedback about what that truly means. It is supposed to work as a barometer of Pakistani public opinion about their own failure as a country, as a state, as a society!

The Gloom and Doom wheel is turning in Pakistan. This thread is supposed to contribute to giving it more focus and more speed.

It think that is a strategic mission. If Pakistanis themselves start believing in their failure, then it is a war we can win without losing men!

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 02 Nov 2011 20:33

I would like to rename it

Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby Pratyush » 02 Nov 2011 20:39

is the TIRP thread not sufficient for this requirement?

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby shiv » 02 Nov 2011 20:41

It's a new "towels" thread to record the occasions on which a Pakhani throws in the towel.

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby Prem » 02 Nov 2011 23:28

Knowingly or unknowlingly , Hassan Nisar is pointing to the travails of convert society.Having none of the foundation, lacking orginal memes ,they remain slave in every true sense of the word. The tormentaion is specially accute in case of Pakistan now forced to watch the rise of Mother Civilization and achieve the glory equal to past .The very idea must be frightning for them . After forsaking , disdaining their own very soul they serve aliens with Roti and Beti and still get treated like disease carrying insects. Poak future is bright, they will have the honor of becoming first nation to be subject of study in Religious Entomology.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 03 Nov 2011 00:24

ramana garu,

thanks! I like the new name!

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby chaanakya » 05 Nov 2011 11:42

Indian PM wanted MFN status badly, Gilani tells cabinet

Well in their own words.
They are truly miserable lot.Ready to suffer great loss with China due to special relations and now with India due to insistence by Man kicked out from Gah.
Pakis think they are the only ones to spoil the Indian bid for perm UN Sc seat

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani has told the federal cabinet that his Indian counterpart Dr Manmohan Singh always stressed an end to trade barriers by Pakistan whenever he met him in foreign countries on the fringes of international conferences.

“Gilani made this disclosure in the cabinet meeting on Wednesday when some ministers cautioned him about the adverse impact of according the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India on Pakistan’s economy,” a participant confided to The News.

He said that the prime minister held the view that the grant of MFN to India would also substantially benefit Pakistan. Gilani said that trade with India would drastically cut down the cost of transportation of goods, which always made them expensive.

Sounding a note of caution, a cabinet member told his colleagues that MFN status to India would enable New Delhi to add to its business at Pakistan’s cost. “The Indian economy is very large and expansive and has a lot of variety compared to Pakistan’s,” he said, adding that the cost of production in Pakistan was more than India’s due to interrupted supply of gas and electricity, terrorism and other factors,” the minister said.

He said that it was natural that when Pakistani goods would cost more, they would not be saleable in India. There is a dire need to carry out an extensive study so that Pakistani goods have the competitive edge, he emphasised. The commerce secretary propounded the view that accord of MFN to China greatly benefited Pakistan. Countering this argument, the minister said that China’s case was different. Islamabad can even afford heavy losses in trade with China because of China’s whole-hearted support in the international circuit and global forums.

Pakistan, he said, has strategic relationship with China and always trusts it in difficult times. Therefore, he added, the grant of MFN to China can’t be compared with that of India under any circumstances.

The minister said New Delhi’s antipathy towards Islamabad was always evident in different areas. It is not even prepared to allow Pakistani cricketers to play in the Indian Premier League (IPL) although it is quite insignificant. :rotfl:

He said that India was squeezing and choking Pakistan by building dams on Pakistani waters in violation of the Indus Water Treaty. Islamabad should keep all these factors in mind, he added. The cabinet member pointed out that Pakistan was beholden to India for supporting Islamabad in getting the temporary membership of the UN Security Council (UNSC). But responding to it, he said, Pakistan has favoured India’s bid to have its nominee as secretary general of the Commonwealth.

He further cautioned that India has the greater design of becoming permanent UNSC member as it only faced the opposition of Pakistan in this endeavour. “We should work to fail India’s bid.” The minister claimed that the foreign secretary, who was present in the cabinet meeting, agreed with him on most points. Under the MFN, there will be mutual reduction in the tariff regime on goods imported and exported by Pakistan and India into the two countries.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby rajanb » 05 Nov 2011 13:26

^^^^ downhill skiing by the Pakis :P

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby rajanb » 05 Nov 2011 13:27

RajeshA wrote:ramana garu,

thanks! I like the new name!


Rajeshji, won't the mirror shatter? :((

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 05 Nov 2011 13:38

rajanb wrote:Rajeshji, won't the mirror shatter? :((

rajanb ji,

the mirror here is the collective of several Pakistanis who are outspoken and willing to be critical about Pakistaniyat, Pakistan's propaganda, Pakistan's creation, Pakistan's direction in its evolution, Pakistan's leaders, Pakistan's social dynamic, Pakistan's fragility as a state, etc.

When they are silenced by the establishment, then the mirror would be shattered. Or when Pakistanis are not allowed to read critical stuff on the Internet or otherwise!

Till then they should see the mirror as often as they can!

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby SSridhar » 05 Nov 2011 17:44

Some select Quotable Quotes

" Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a ´ breeding ground ´ for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. " Shamshad Ahmed, ex-Foreign Secretary, Pakistan, Nov. 24, 2007

" Why is it that all terrorist plots – from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai – seem to have roots in Islamabad? " Ms. Benazir Bhutto, Washington Post, March 12, 2007

“This is not our army, this is not our government. They’re worse enemies of Muslims than the Americans.” Muslim Khan, Spokesperson, Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Swat, referring to Pakistan and its Army, May 2009.

“The Sharifs are creating a potential bomb here in Punjab. These [militant] groups are armed and dangerous. There is no way you can accommodate these people” Late Salman Taseer, Punjab Governor, The Guardian, April 29, 2010

“All praise is for the Almighty who bestowed sovereignty upon the army, then made the people subservient to the army and the army subservient to its own interests” — Justice Rustam Kiyani, Supreme Court of Pakistan, 1970

“We must not be afraid of admitting that the Jaish was involved in the deaths of thousands of innocent Kashmiris, bombing the Indian Parliament, [the journalist] Daniel Pearl's murder and even attempts on President Musharraf's life.” Lt. Gen. Javed Ashraf Qazi, former DG, ISID, Statement in Pakistan's Senate on March 10, 2004

“Thank God we were not part of the sin of making Pakistan.”
Maulana Mufti Mahmud, JUI, (father of Maulana Fazlur Rehman) 1971

"Mark my words, each successive government of Pakistan will be worse than its predecessor" -- Mohammed ali Jinnah as told to his friend Rustamjee Fakirjee Cowasjee, 1948

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby shiv » 09 Nov 2011 06:28


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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Altair » 12 Nov 2011 09:57

It appears I got lost somewhere, I am reposting the link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELypvXmS68
It is a Paki women telling about the current state of Pakistan and whether there is any future of Jinnah's dream.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 13 Nov 2011 03:00

Hanization of Pakistan;

Anujan wrote:By Ayesha Siddiqa

http://tribune.com.pk/story/290828/empire-by-stealth/

Any ordinary resident of Islamabad can’t miss noticing the rising Chinese presence in the capital city. In fact, Chinese have begun to appear in most Pakistani towns, which was never the case. The fact is, China is expanding and is now at our doorstep.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby partha » 13 Nov 2011 03:34

x-post from TSP thread:

Shaashtanga wrote:More words of Wisdom from Mr. Tarek Fatah.
Good for him that he left the shit-hole along-with his family and moved to canuckistan, else he would have also been Qadri-fied for speaking the truth against the army whose motto is - "Iman. Taqwa. Jihad-fi-Sabilillah"

Coren & Fatah on islamic intolerance, Pak-style -


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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Anurag » 13 Nov 2011 05:38

[youtube]K57q_914QAU&feature=related[/youtube]

India an Imagined Enemy

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby chetak » 13 Nov 2011 09:49

Distorted history

Even if I were to believe that these rulers attacked out of a genuine wish to spread Islam, who authorised them to do so by the use of the sword? Even the battles fought by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) were actually a punishment of Allah for the disbelievers because the disbelievers persisted in denying Allah’s message. It was only when Allah ordered: “Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands” (9:14); that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) waged war. I would like to know who gave these rulers the authority to decide which disbelievers deserved to be punished and which people had reached the level of purity to be left alone? If spreading Islam was their intent, they could have just preached it. If anything, they should be discredited for contributing to Islam’s wrong image as a violent religion.
I wonder why we are so quick to assume the role of a Muslim apologist. May I remind all such people how Mahmood Ghaznavi killed the locals of Lahore ruthlessly when he attacked and burnt the entire city? May I remind them of Nadir Shah who in matter of a day killed thousands of Muslims when he marched on to Delhi to snatch the throne from Mohammed Shah, one of the last Mughal kings of India and yet another Muslim? Or Ahmed Shah Durrani, who ravaged the Muslim population of Gujrat while fighting the Sikhs? What about the Delhi Sultanate which, over a period of 300 years from 1206 to 1526, saw five Muslim dynasties namely Slave, Khilji, Tughlaq, Syed and Lodhi dynasties, indulge in intrigues and murders of each other to capture the throne. Did any of these rulers care about Muslims that we are so religiously guarding them? Do we all know that Maharaja Ranjeet Singh was requested by prominent Muslims of Lahore to come and capture the city?
All the rulers of the subcontinent, Muslims or non-Muslims, locals or invaders, were interested in ruling this land purely for political and economic reasons. Why bring in the religious angle or deprive ourselves of our multicultural history? Not only does this fuel religious bigotry and intolerance, it also plants a false sense of invincibility in our minds that allows us to deflect the blame of our failures on others.

And those who think distorting history is a strategic tool need to wake up to the detrimental effects of this policy. Not only has it fanned intolerance by making us believe we are victims of some nefarious and well-coordinated chicanery, it has also instilled a misguided and one-sided sense of Muslim brotherhood in us. I was appalled to hear a member of the National Assembly a few days ago declaring that we should come to the aid of our Afghan brothers. How did a country that has for 800 years attacked the subcontinent suddenly become our brother is devoid of any logic. Let alone the fact that the only country to oppose Pakistan’s entry into the United Nations was Afghanistan. What about Egypt, which provided supplies to India during the 1965 war? How about Iran, which refused to sign the gas pipeline project to protect India’s concerns? So why embark upon this one-way road?
In the end, I’ll mention an incident, found in one of Manto’s stories, which is the perfect manifestation of the prejudice we have come to espouse. The incident is about the religious riots in Lahore during Partition when a group of Muslims is attacking the statue of Sir Ganga Ram, an honourable son of Lahore, which once adorned Mall Road. During the attack a man gets carried away, climbs atop the statue, falls down and injures himself seriously. The fellow rioters immediately pick him up while one of them screams “Hurry; let’s take him to Sir Ganga Ram hospital”.
Published in The Express Tribune, November 11th, 2011.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby chetak » 13 Nov 2011 09:53

Why our textbooks should include Ranjit Singh



The history of Pakistan, as told in these textbooks, is nothing more than a history of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. The books exalt Muslim rulers of the subcontinent, depicting them to be epitome of righteousness with the sole agenda to spread Islam, even though all of them were invaders with an expansionist agenda. They vilify all local non-Muslim rulers as having an inherent hatred towards Islam, even though they might have been simply fighting an oppressor or invader. The names of the non-Muslim rulers are never mentioned. That’s why the books are replete with the names of the Ghaznavis, Tughlaqs and Mughals, even though they were invaders, but the likes of Ranjit Singh fail to earn a mention even though they were sons of the soil.
May I ask our writers of history that if Mehmud Ghaznavi was such a great preacher of religion, as most textbooks portray him to be, why did he go on killing and destructive sprees against, for example, the Muslim rulers of Multan? And what should one make of the fact that he killed his own brother to capture the throne? Or that why did he have to attack the subcontinent 17 times? What was the motive for him invading places like Mathura, Kannauj and Kalinjar, known primarily for the treasures found in their Hindu temples? Was it not to ransack them and take away their riches?
The Ghaznavids were succeeded by Shahabuddin Ghauri. Ghauri is famous for challenging the Hindu king Prithvi Raj Chauhan, at the start of the Battle of Tarain in 1192, to either convert to Islam or be crushed. If spreading Islam was his agenda, one wonders what about the war he waged against the last Ghaznavid king, Malik Khusro? Why are our history books silent on this?
Such textbooks have contributed to a skewed and prejudiced understanding of history, and created a sense of fear in many of us of all that is non-Islamic. This fear then creates a mindset of the average Pakistan, steeped in paranoia and a sharply anti-West worldview. This also creates a superiority complex among many of us, in that we consider ourselves and our faith the best, and denigrate that of others.
We forget that our land has given birth to and helped nurture major world religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism, so it’s about time we embrace our history in its entirety and learn from it. Maybe that will help induce much required tolerance in us.
In the end, I would narrate a story that I have grown up hearing as a member of Lahore’s historical Fakir family. The rulers of Afghanistan never reconciled with the fact that Peshawar had slipped out of their hands and went to Ranjit Singh. When Dost Mohammed Khan attacked Peshawar in 1834 to regain it, Ranjit Singh sent Fakir Azizuddin, his prime minister, for negotiations. When the Fakir reached his camp and talks started, the courtiers gave it a religious bend and he was taunted severely for his allegiance to a non-Muslim. Shrewd that the Fakir was, he asked all present that being a good Muslim, wasn’t it his moral duty to loyally serve his king? The aggressors who were in no mood to let go, cleverly started alluding to the massive bloodshed of Muslims on both sides if the war ensued. The Fakir took a pause and asked Dost Khan that if he convinced Ranjit Singh to give Peshawar back to him, would he return peacefully? The answer was a resounding ‘yes’. And then the Fakir retorted: “Don’t brand your campaign Islamic, it’s a fight for a piece of land.”
Published in The Express Tribune, October 15th, 2011.


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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 11 Dec 2011 12:59

Published on Dec 10, 2011
By Shibil Siddiqi
Pakistan’s strategic dependence: The Tribune (Pak)

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/304698/pakistans-strategic-dependence/

Even now, the military establishment’s real fear is not continuing a servile relationship with the US, but the approaching reality of a return to the 1990s, when Pakistan faded into insignificance for US foreign policy. This fear is now mingled with terror at the prospect of the US forging an alliance with India instead, something a break in relations could hasten.

Thus, Pakistani dependence on the US will remain as long as the country is tied to a paradigm of confrontation with India. And there are no stand-ins in the wings. Despite misinformed assertions to the contrary, China possesses neither the political will, nor the economic clout or military muscle to replace US largesse. With an eye on Uighur unrest, China is also increasingly sceptical of Pakistan’s proxy jihadists, a dangerously infectious disease cultivated in Pakistan’s anti-India military laboratory. More obviously, it makes little sense to swap dependency on the US for China.

Confrontation with India and the resultant dependence on the US has made Pakistan an absurd place where security is measured in externally oriented F-16s even when these contribute to the daily internal insecurities of poverty, ill-health, illiteracy etc. It has also populated the country with horrors: the suicide bomber, the killer drone and ever-deepening intolerance are the enfants terribles of our policy failures. All this has made Pakistanis more violently anti-American than even the Iraqis, Afghans, Cubans or Iranians.

Ironically, the loudest anti-American voices in Pakistan also tend to be the most anti-Indian. They conveniently blind themselves to the reality that to break free of dependence on the US, Pakistan must reboot its strategic security doctrines and must remain steadfast on the path to normalising relations with India. Exteriority and incompleteness are encoded in the DNA of Pakistan’s national vision. This vision has failed. Only in making peace with India can Pakistan make peace with itself.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby RajeshA » 26 Dec 2011 10:01

Published on Dec 24, 2011
By Khaled Ahmed
Muslim view of ‘decline’: The Tribune (Pak)

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/311403/muslim-view-of-decline/

The Muslim resistance to mutation as a project of survival and its literalist insistence on a permanently settled dogma has forced them to think of changing the world. The idea is to change the world, not change according to the world. There are two doctrines that spring from this feeling of decline: ‘dawa’, that is, proselytising non-Muslims till they can’t think differently and thus contribute to the universal consensus based on unrevised tenets; and jihad, by which the Muslims mean war.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2012 10:43

Jhujar and others please use this thread also...

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Gaurav_S » 12 Mar 2012 07:26

I am hooked to this video by Javed Chaudhary. Especially the way he says word "bhikhari nooqlear power". Every paki should watch this before they open their mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ66Mo71m8M

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby harbans » 12 Mar 2012 16:17

Don't know if this has been posted, but Tarek Fateh here is just Brilliant..Must see if not seen before!


[youtube]vdCKj9sT2Ko&feature=related[/youtube]

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Rahul M » 09 Jun 2012 22:31

up.

there have been a lot of vids in TSP thread in the recent past that deserves to be posted here. if anyone can remember those, please do so.

TIA.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ArunK » 10 Jun 2012 07:56

OK. Let me share what I have been watching the past couple of months.

Here is a site called "Sochta Pakistan" This is a TV program hosted by Moeed Pirzada. A new video is posted -- ususally -- Thursdays, Fridays & Saturdays. Sometimes on other days.

http://www.sochtapakistan.com/programmevideos.asp

This dude is a an *UBER* Rape. All his guests are too. They all have this veneer of ultra sophisticated liberal intellectuals. You should listen to them talk. Our friend Ijaz Haider is a regular, so is a host of ex Foreign Secretaries, ex Army, Think tankers. Sometimes foreign guests. It is fascinating. There must be at least 100 1 hr programs. All in urdu though. My urdu has improved by leaps and bounds after watching these videos. My sincere suggestion, watch at least 5 videos before drawing conclusions.

I also watch Najam Sethi's Aapas Ki Baath every Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. They load up the Vids in this site at around 3:30 PM (Eastern Time USA) on those days. Again programs are in URDU -- You watch for a month, you get used to it.

http://www.zemtv.com/?s=Apas+Ki+Baat

I have to tell you, I find this dude fascinating too.

You can go to the parent site to see almost *ALL* Pakistani news programs -- there are dozens.

http://www.zemtv.com

Enjoy

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Rahul M » 10 Jun 2012 08:31

thanks a lot. more please.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ArunK » 10 Jun 2012 09:35

One thing that will be useful is a Urdu - English dictionary. Let me list some of the words for which I had to find the meaning the hard way. I cannot find a good online dictionary. I cannot read/write urdu.

Perhaps, with so much knowledge in BRF we can create a comprehensive dictionary...

Here are the words spelled phonetecally. I have to admit I knew some of these words correctly and fully right off the bat. But others I have no idea. Even now. A dictionary could have come in very handy. These 100 words will be a good start

Aaasman | Gehra | Maslaah | Raviyya
Ahem | Ghairiyat | Maujuud | Sabak
Ailaan | Glushan | Mubaat | Sadr
Aisiyat | Guft-e-gu | Mubassar | Sarbarah
Arz | Haqeekat | Mufadaat | Sard-Mehri
Askari | Haseena | Muhhobbat | Sard-e-pakistan
Bahami | Hawaala | Mulaqaat | Shaqs
Baraks | Hukumat | Mulk | Sharkat
Batadareej? | Husn | Munafiq | Shrt
Bawajood | Iktallafi | Munasif | Siyasat
Behtar | Ishtaraaq | Munkin/Namunkin | Taaluk
Buniyaad | Ittefaq | Munsaliq | Taariq
Daawat/Daawatnama | Jamooriyat | Muqqammal | Tai
Dafaa | Jawaaz | Muqsad | Taleel
Darmiyaan | Jism | Muqummal | Tamaam
Dastaan | Karwai | Murboosh | Taqwiyyat
Dastoor | Kayamat | Mushtehar | Tashreef
Durust | Khaas | Mustaliq | Taur
Faislaa | Kharja | Mustaqbil | Tawaqo?
Falahh | Khyaal | Mutabiq | Tehat
Farishta | Kism | Muzakraat | Ummeed
Farmaana | Lafz | Nazreen | Waada
Farz | Lahoo | Paawan | Wazeer-e-Azam
Fateha | Maghrab | Parlimaan | Wazeer-e-Kharja
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Kanishka
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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Kanishka » 10 Jun 2012 11:38

A young Paki woman comparing Indian and paki men.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby pankajs » 11 Jun 2012 08:28

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2012\06\11\story_11-6-2012_pg3_4
Jinnah revisited — Yasser Latif Hamdani
I am as ardent a patriot as anyone is but to suggest “we are better off today than our elders who had to live through the nightmare of communal rioting” is a bit too much. Not all of us reside in our own echo chambers of self-delusion. It is true that Pakistan’s creation for the first few decades helped create an indigenous bourgeoisie in the areas that are now Pakistan, but our policies from the 1970s onwards have ensured that we become a theocratic dystopia where no one is safe. Therefore, whatever strides we made up until then are being lost to a religious extremism that Mr Ashraf promotes. He says, “Pakistan is no heaven on earth...” A more accurate view would have been that Pakistan is no hell on earth but it is definitely getting there. It is tragic to see people like Taimoor Ashraf, who are seemingly educated, try to sweep the ugliness of our current reality under the rug in the name of high patriotism, which in fact is the virtue of the vicious, to quote Oscar Wilde. So long as we have writers like Mr Ashraf distorting the facts using flawed logic, we will remain on the wrong side of history and our posterity will condemn us for leaving behind an unmanageable hellhole. You have been warned.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Kanishka » 02 Jul 2012 10:26

60% Pakistanis Will Be Short In Height

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby skumar » 02 Jul 2012 11:14

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_M0S8KVHHY[/youtube]

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby member_19686 » 02 Jul 2012 18:22

ArunK wrote:One thing that will be useful is a Urdu - English dictionary. Let me list some of the words for which I had to find the meaning the hard way. I cannot find a good online dictionary. I cannot read/write urdu.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/fallon/

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/platts/

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/shakespear/

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby partha » 14 Aug 2012 04:02

x-post from TSP

partha wrote:You might have read the 4 part series "This too was Pakistan" by NFP on dawn.com. Here is a response. Read the whole thing. It is too long to post here in full. Only selected items I have quoted.

I suggest this be included in the first post of TSP thread.

http://criticalppp.com/archives/222082
This too was Pakistan (1947-71): A response to Nadeem Paracha’s “Also Pakistan”


Nadeem F. Paracha’s (NFP) history of Pakistan in the four part series in daily Dawn suffers from an error of exclusion. It is the history of Pakistan’s upper-middle classes in an urban setting where lifestyle choices imply that somehow Pakistan was more liberal in the past. It also reduces Pakistan to a (mainly) Punjabi-Muhajir urban upper-middle class landscape – like the plays of Fatima Surayya Bajia, Hasina Moin and Ashfaque Ahmed or romantic writings of Shafique-ur-Rehman and Nasim Hijazi.

The pictures in NFP columns tell a story of an upper middle class whose “liberal” membership has shrunk. Simultaneously, it also reinforces the myth that there is a tiny bulwark of upper-middle class activists who are protecting Pakistan from complete Talibanisation - as long as their literary festivals, social media melas and fashion shows are well funded by foreign consulates and donor agencies.

In terms of strategy, “liberals” tactics are very similar to the post-9/11 strategy of General Musharaf. In the first half of the last decade, this strategy was employed to the hilt by Musharaf in trying to convince the West that he and the army under him represent the last stand against the Taliban. Of course, now the whole world knows the dual policy of Pakistan’s military establishment of officially opposing the Taliban but protecting and sponsoring them and their local Jihadi affiliates at the ground level. Plausible deniability was taken to a new level by Pakistan’s military establishment. Similarly, it is commonly known that several of Pakistan’s “noted liberals” including but not limited to Najam Sethi, Ejaz Haider and their predecessors in the past have played a questionable role in undermining democratic governments in Pakistan.

What NFP has presented in this series is only a limited remembrance of Pakistan from an elitist, upper-middle class perspective. If a narrow window of Pakistani society can be described as Pakistan, rest assured such Pakistan exists even today within its typical confines, e.g., five star hotels, private beaches, civil society melas, literary festivals, aman ki asha events etc in secluded luxury hotels or private residences.

What NFP did not describe is how the country was shaping itself right from its inception when Jinnah and his close comrades authorized military take over of Balochistan, despatch of Pashtun and Punjabi mercenaries to Kashmir, dismissal of Dr. Khan’s government in NWFP and suppression of Bangla language. In 1948 and beyond we saw a repeat of similar events, e.g., when Jinnah’s funeral was refused to be led by a Shia cleric, when Objectives Resolution was passed by Pakistan’s first legislative assembly thus formalizing the ascendancy of Sunni Islam, when anti-Ahmadiyya riots took place in streets of Lahore and other cities of Pakistan. NFP also did not mention the fact that long before General Zia’s Islamization, one of the bloodiest massacres of Shias took place in Terhi Sindh in 1963. That too was Pakistan.

Romanticizing of Pakistan from an upper-middle class lens is a great thing to write and read and we are not challenging the fact that confines of the upper-middle class lifestyle have relatively reduced in the past few decades courtesy General Zia, Zakir Naik, Farhat Hashmi, Imran Khan etc, however, that lifestyle featuring several elements of social hedonism is still available and enjoyed by the select elite.

The photos and narrative also reinforce the upper-middle class narrative that the seeds of extremism, intolerance and hypernationalism were sown during Bhutto’s time and harvested by Zia ul Haq. Unfortunately, this selective narrative excludes the role of Pakistan’s urban elites (eg Rana Liaquat Ali Khan, Qudratullah Shahab, Altaf Gauhar etc) who silently watched the destruction of a pluralist society and the resulting rampant extremism while their own socio-economic interests were taken good care of.

The seeds of extremism in Pakistan were not planted by Zia or Bhutto but were there much earlier and should be highlighted. Today, Pakistan’s Shia Muslims are undergoing a slow-motion genocide which is deliberately being misrepresented or ignored by the urban elites who have positioned themselves as the “Endangered Liberal Species”. Such elites have largely participated in inexplicable silence on the massacre of at least 19000 Shia Muslims in Pakistan in the last few decades.


1947: A country created on the basis of communal hatred and othering

Founder of a communal state is evasive about his own communal identity

The country’s founder was a Shia but it was Mr. Jinnah himself who was evasive about his Shia Muslim identity.

1947: Jinnah dismisses an elected government in NWFP Province

1948: Bacha Khan remains in intermittent house arrest from 1948 to 1964

Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (Bacha Khan) was always presented as a traitor of Pakistan and an Indian agent. Ghaffar Khan was placed under house arrest without charge from 1948 till 1954. He was re-arrested in 1958 until an illness in 1964 allowed for his release.


1948: At least 150 Pashtuns massacred in Babhara village, Charsadda

1948: State funeral for Jinnah cannot be led by a Shia cleric

1949: Islamisation of Pakistan begins. Objectives Resolution passed by PM Liaquat Ali Khan

1951: A Jihad-e-Kashmir mercenary killed PM Liaquat Ali Khan

1952: Bangla language riots in East Pakistan


1953: Anti-Ahmadiyya riots in Punjab
In 1953, a religious movement began to agitate for the removal of the Ahmadiyya Muslims from power positions, and demanded a declaration of Ahmadis as a non-Muslim minority groups. Due to government’s lack of action, mass rioting broke out in the Punjab against both the government and followers of Ahmadis. Several dozens were killed by violent mobs of Jamaat-e-Islami and other Sunni Deobandis, Wahhabi and Barelvi groups.

General Azam Khan – the first Martial Law Administrator having hard talk with Sardar Nishtar. With the government failing to contain anti-Ahmadi riots in Lahore, property of civilians being destroyed and truoble spreading to other major cities of the Punjab in 1953, Prime Minister Khwaja Nazimuddin, an ineffective administrator while presiding over a cabinet meeting in Karachi kept saying what should I do, what should I do. Lahore was on fire and the Governor of Punjab had just confirmed the fact. Defense Secretary Iskander Mirza was asked to find out the exact situation. He went to the ante room and called GOC Lahore General Azam Khan who confirmed the reports. ‘How long will it take you to control the situation?’ Mirza asked him. ‘One hour’ quipped Azam. ‘Then go ahead’ Mirza advised him. He returned to the Cabinet room and announced that he had declared Martial Law in Lahore. True to his word Azam restored law and order, arrested Maulana Maudoodi and Maulana Abdul Sattar Khan Niazi, tried them in a summary military court, sentenced them to death and sent them to the black cell for hanging the next morning. A call from King Saud however got them a reprieve. But with the carte blanche given to Gen Azam, military supremacy had been ensured in Pakistan for all times to come. Also Saudi hegemony in protecting and sponsoring Wahhabi-Deobandis of Pakistan was also established.

Pakistan was co-opted by a powerful civil-military bureaucracy immediately after coming into existence. This establishment ensured that Deobandi clerics and organizations e.g., Shabbir Ahmed Usmani, Maulana Maududi were given a prominent place in a non-democratic setup. The Objectives Resolution followed quickly and a large scale pogrom against the Ahmadi Muslims took place in Pakistan in 1953. None of this is reflected in the pictures selected – incidentally, that is not Stewart Granger and Ava Gardner either – although both of them were here for the filming of Bhowani junction. The most abiding memory of them isn’t Ava Gardner’s ethereal beauty or Granger’s rackish charms. Rather is the pride felt by the urban elites when Stewart Granger was slapped by an army officer (Suo Moto anyone)

In terms of presenting an alternate history and point of view, it is important to appreciate some of Nadeem’s earlier anti-establishment work. However, it is also important to highlight the limitation of these views as an urban reflection which do not delve deeper into the historical roots of the problems currently facing Pakistan. Unwittingly, this presentation reinforces the selective elite narrative which works overtime to shift the blame from the establishment and the liberal class to convenient scapegoats (generals and politicians).


1955: One unit system adopted in West Pakistan

1956: Islamic name for Pakistan

1959: Baloch leaders betrayed by Pakistan army

1963: Shia massacre in Therhi, Sindh

1965: Operation Gibraltar and the Pakistan India war

1971: Bangladesh Liberation War and the genocide of pro-freedom Muslims and Hindus of East Pakistan

We cannot move forward until we reconcile with our past. For a progressive, pluralist and secular Pakistan, we cannot be selective of our either our history or our genesis. By perpetuating a selective and concocted version of history, we are doomed to repeat our follies.


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