A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 16 Aug 2012 04:12

We should put the above data in a ppt titiled "Roots of Islamization of Pakistan"

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby partha » 21 Aug 2012 08:31

x-post from TSP.

partha wrote:What has been known here on BRF for a long time, some Pakis are now grudgingly accepting the truth. That there is a class of people called "liberals" in Pakistan is nothing but a myth. Age old BRF wisdom - "scratch the surface and you get a jihadi".


“In individuals, insanity is rare; in groups, parties, nations, and epochs, it is the rule.”

-Friedrich Nietzsche.

Mr Victorious Sword or Zafar Shamsheer is a conservative, a Muslim conservative. He believes the entire world is busy conspiring against the Muslims.

The 9/11 never happened. And even if it did, it was a big Jewish conspiracy against Muslims. “Why were all Jewish employees in those buildings on leave that day?” he asks. Although he has seen pictures of Jewish people killed in the terrorist attacks, he refuses to believe them.

He also believes that Osama bin Laden was not killed in Pakistan. The US operation was a fake because OBL had already died in 2002.

All those Taliban who attack mosques, Muslim worshippers, Pakistani troops and military installations are not really Taliban. They are Indian and American infiltrators.

Shias are not Muslims, yes, Mr. Sword agrees with that. But he refuses to believe that Sunni militants are killing Shias. “Those who do such things are also Indian and American agents,” he claims.

He believes the Arab Spring is a conspiracy to weaken Muslims. And those fighting Syrian government troops are not Syrian Muslims, they are non-Muslim foreigners.

There is no limit to Mr. Sword’s fantasies. He has a fertile brain and can churn out a hundred conspiracy theories a day. His theories often contradict each other but that does not bother him. Nothing does.

Who is Mr. Sword? Is he real? Yes, there is one particular Mr. Sword that I know but there are many others who fit this description too. They all live in their small, make-believe worlds and refuse to look outside.

I did a brief Google search with words ‘Shia kafir’ and it showed me 141,000 results in 0.23 seconds. Most of these posts were by Sunni extremists but there were some by Shias too, calling Sunnis kafir.

So, it is not just Mr. Sword who is diseased. We all are. This jinni is sitting inside all of us and whenever it gets a chance, it comes out with full ferociousness, ready to destroy anyone and anything that it does not like.

Trying engaging a Muslim, liberal or religious, on a subject he disagrees with and see how he reacts. Note how ferocious he becomes, how cruel, how offensive.

Educated liberals do not call each other kafirs, true. But see how they change when using a sectarian or ethnic card to promote their interests. A person blocking a job they covet is signalled out as a Shia, Ahmadi, Christian or whatever sect or faith he or she may belong to.

Where the religious card does not work, ethnic differences do and are used blatantly, without feeling any shame. Racism is bad if the Whites use it against us, but not if Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baloch and Mohajirs use it against each other.

At annual meetings of the Islamic Society of North America, I twice tried discussing the racial discrimination that South and Southeast Asian workers face in the Gulf. I did not succeed.

But let us get back to Mr Sword. We went to the same school, in Islamabad. He somehow passed the matriculation and intermediate examinations, both in third divisions, learned typing and joined a government office in Islamabad. He still lives in a poor neighbourhood in Rawalpindi.

For most liberals, he is a failure, a low-life semi-mullah who is neither here nor there. They are wrong. He is the key link between the extremists sitting on the mountains and the people who quietly slip in a hundred-rupee note into the donation box after Friday prayers in the name of jihad. He encourages them to do so.

People like Mr Sword are also important because, unlike liberals, they retain the ability to speak, write, compose poems and make speeches in their own languages.

The Mr Sword that I know speaks chaste Punjabi and fluent Urdu. He quotes versus from the Holy Quran and couplets from Sufi poetry in his speeches. Most liberals cannot. So when he speaks, he has an impact. The English-mixed, Urdu, Punjabi or Sindhi the liberals speak, does not have an impact.

This Mr Sword is also a poet. He can write melodious poems, in Urdu and Punjabi, glorifying Islam and Muslims. So he is popular.

During the Afghan war, Mr Sword joined a religious leader as his personal bard. He would travel from town to town, reciting his poems that also included at least one poem about this scholar.

Those were the days when the free world – mainly Americans, Pakistanis and Saudis – was busy fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. They were recruiting jihadis from all over the world, particularly from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Mr Sword came in handy. His poems encouraged teenagers to join the Afghan jihad. Mr Sword was rewarded for his efforts with a small piece of land in the neighbourhood where he lives now. With support from his “maulana saheb,” he built a small house there and is happy with that. He does not want more.

So he did not migrate to Europe or America, like most liberals do. Some like him do go to the Middle East as unskilled labour and return home with a new zeal for promoting their beliefs. For instance, some of these Dubai-returned Mr Swords are more eager than the local ones in branding others as kafirs.

But this is not just Mr Sword’s story. This is my story too. And it starts at a news conference in Rawalpindi, addressed by a scholar, now dead, who often claimed that “every Moharram, I cause the death of two or three Shias.”

The maulana, as expected, demanded new restrictions on religious minorities or “their men will be enslaved and women distributed among the believers.”

Mr Sword got up and chanted slogans, for at least five minutes, backing the maulana’s demand. A small crowd of maulana’s supporters joined him.

I disagreed. But I was quiet, even when a journalist was locked in a room for criticising the maulana. Other liberal journalists were also silent. We did not have the courage to challenge the maulana.

We went back to our newspapers and wrote little stories, in English, criticising the maulana. Our stories did not have much of an impact.

There was another maulana, who lived in Islamabad and was equally anti-Shia. Mr Sword and I met again at this maulana’s meeting where he made a fiery speech, cursing Shias, Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and other minorities.

Again, the crowd got up and chanted slogans and again Mr Sword led the chanting. And once again, we the so-called liberals were silent.

Is it just fear that keeps us mum? Not really. A little prodding will unveil the ugly faces of our fake liberalism.

“It is true that the state has no business calling anybody a kafir but Ahmadis are not really Muslim, are they?” you may hear a liberal saying if you engage him in a debate over this issue.

“Shias are not really kafir but they are not exactly Muslims, are they?” another will ask. Perhaps we all believe in what Mr Sword does but hide our feelings under the cloak of liberalism. Perhaps, we are genuinely secular but hesitate to express our views publicly.

Mr Sword never hesitates. He is sharp, like a sword, and always to the point. So he is very effective. All his poems, all his speeches are right on the target.

Someone like Mr Sword came to Washington three years ago and stunned a think-tank audience. “There can never be peace between the Islamic and Western worlds,” he said. “I know you have the power to nuke us now. So do it. When we get a chance, we will do it too.”

Those who were there still remember him. And this is the strategy that people like Mr Sword use, say outrageous things that cause people to notice you and then come back later to pick on those who can be won over.

Where do they get their inspiration from? From Friday sermons that are repeated every week in millions of mosques across the world. True, not all mosques allow such sermons but many do.

And this provides an effective forum for people like Mr Sword to draw their inspiration from and to influence unsuspecting worshippers, who come for saying their prayers but return home with seeds of hatred in their minds.

Liberals have no such platform. They do not have an effective organisation. At best, they can print their views in elite newspapers and magazines that only the liberals read.

So what they say or write does not hurt Mr Sword. Nothing does. The liberals are too weak to challenge him.

Perhaps, they do not even want to challenge Mr Sword. How many times have we seen a liberal Sunni interrupting an imam when he calls Shias kafir? Perhaps never.

When we do not try to stop them from making such outrageous claims, are we not condoning their views? We are.

Perhaps, we also believe in this Muslim-kafir business but are too shy to admit. So we are happy to let Mr Sword speak for us. Does Mr Sword speak for most of us?

The author is a correspondent for Dawn, based in Washington, DC

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ranjbe » 24 Aug 2012 10:21

Another gem by Tarek Fatah. His recent book "Chasing a Mirage" is another gem. Amusing breakout into Punjabi from Urdu around 10.30.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 28 Aug 2012 21:49

X-post as this thread has now in the sights of pakis from Zimbabwe....

Lilo wrote:Quoting the farticle in full before its modified or takendown.
[quote Indo-Pakistan cyber war: reality check
Adeela Naureen and Umar Waqar

As per techtarget.com “Cyber warfare is Internet-based conflict involving politically motivated attacks on information and information systems. Cyber warfare attacks can disable official websites and networks, disrupt or disable essential services, steal or alter classified data, and cripple financial systems, among many other possibilities.”
As per Alvin Toffler, “the media fire blips of unrelated information at us. Experts bury us under mountains of narrowly specialized monographs. Popular forecasters present lists of unrelated trends, without any model to show us their interconnections or the forces likely to reverse them. As a result, change itself comes to be seen as anarchic, even lunatic.”
And may we add that the power of social media which is unbridled and almost free (minus the one which is controlled by vested interests) that you can find what recently happened in India for instance, the exodus of Northeasterners from (mainly) Southern India. Today’s discussion is not about India’s fault lines and the simmering currents of revolt knocking at the doors of New Delhi, but a sinister blame campaign launched by, apparently, supporters of the leadership of India that Pakistani groups were involved in a campaign to divide India. Despite our limited access to what happens inside the ‘Shining India’, we would like to expose the contours of a persistent anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam cyber war that has been waged by Indian groups (government sponsored and private) to demonize and belittle Pakistan in every way possible.
While being fully cognizant of the fact that it is only the resilience of the people that has let Pakistan float through its socio-economic and security challenges during the last one decade, the country at present presents an ideal target for cyber warfare and information operations. With help from some Pakistani intellectuals in print and electronic media as well as a policy of appeasement adopted by successive Pakistani governments, the Indian cyber warfare apparatus has been allowed a free run to bludgeon Pakistan as well as Islam.
The paucity of space for discussion here restricts us from doing a post-mortem of the Indian cyber war against Pakistan. However, few glimpses of one forum, Bharat Rakshak.com (which in our opinion is the vanguard organization of Pakistan and Islam specific cyber war apparatus), could be an eye opener for many. Bharat Rakshak (BR) is a Pakistan-hate forum with viewership running into millions. We wish the Aman Ki Asha group to have an open discussion with this forum, which would make it realise that peripheral, social and media exchanges for peace do not stand any chance of mitigating the hate being created by this one forum only. So, they may be wasting a lot of time of a lot of people across the great divide.
Bharat Rakshak has a clearly articulated offensive and defensive strategy in place and an admirable ability to pick anything from Pakistani or international media to demonize Pakistan. An interesting thread currently run by BR is, “A mirror on Pakistan in their own words by Pakistanis”. A section of Pakistani newspapers, TV anchors and intellectuals, who adopt an unnecessarily harsh critical approach to practices associated with Islam, are the most sought out and quoted in this thread. Pakistan is satirically named as Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TIRP)
Demonizing Islam as well as the Indian Muslims: Hate material runs into millions of comments and views insulting our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well as Muslim akabireen and leadership. General themes include Islam bashing, Bangladeshi bashing, portraying Pakistanis as illiterate and ridiculing the sectarian divisions within Islam. An example of a disturbing way of expressing everything associated with Pakistan is that Pak-China friendship has been displayed by an insulting photograph, a monkey (Pakistan) riding a pig (China) {this refers to the well known pic circulating in Benis}:lol:. Pakistan’s ISI has a special forum for discussion and is one of the prime targets of the BR.
There is a confused and free for all strategists’ Strategic Forum on Subcontinent with self-created and imaginary threats discussed on a daily basis. It appears that the fear factor of being ruled by others has not left the Indian psyche even after getting independence. There are seemingly permanent imprints of that period, as confirmed by Bharat Verma’s latest book on India’s fault lines.
The Boomerang on India’s Face: What the cyber warriors of India forget is that you cannot insult a community which forms 20 percent of you demography, the Muslims of India. They do not realise that Pakistan bashing, Islam bashing and insulting our respected forefathers :rotfl:{The lampooning of their arap,turkic and other hijda "four fathers" got these porkis squirming like worms} would do them little good in the ultimate analysis; this practice would not be digested by any Muslim, Pakistani or Indian.
To highlight their anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam bias we will quote from Bharat Rakhshak discussion forum on how should the US fulfil the mean desires of India, “If the Americans think straight, and with a clear lens not dirtied with Gulf Arab oil and money, then they would not be confounded by Paki “treachery”. Paki behaviour will then be perfectly understandable and predictable, once they understand the true nature of the Sunnis. And then, never again will they make the mistake of going into Iraq of even Afghanistan to tackle radical Islam; instead they would squeeze the Pakis (the body of the snake) and the Saudis (the head of the snake).{This was extracted from here}
Those who negate the Two-Nation Theory within India or Pakistan must understand that, as in the past, it is being fortified by such virulent anti-Pakistan campaign.
Recently, Narendra Singh Modi :lol: accused the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government of disrespecting the Indian culture by allegedly promoting the slaughter of cows to increase the prospects of beef export. Well beef is a different issue, Mr Modi, especially when it comes to making good profit. Incidentally, India is forecast to become the world’s leading beef exporter in 2012, which makes it clear that there are no longer any holy cows. Only the Muslims in India will not be allowed to touch them!

The writers are freelance columnists based in Zimbabwe.Email: yalla_umar@yahoo.com

This news was published in print paper.

Methinks these two paki specimens from Zimbabwe should be welcomed into BRF.[/quote]

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 02 Dec 2012 14:54

SSridhar wrote:Victory of Religious Control -- Saad Hafiz, Op Ed in DT

The unequal battle between the depleting ranks of secularists and the growing band of Islamists in Pakistan is all but over. The dream of a progressive, democratic and pluralistic society is in tatters.
It was under their influence that Pakistan got a somewhat balanced 1973 Constitution with cosmetic and vague Islamic content. Mr Bhutto under pressure from the Islamists soon started to tinker with it. His end came at the hands of the very obscurantist elements that he tried to appease.
Benazir Bhutto and Mian Nawaz Sharif who came after Zia did little to reverse the tide of fundamentalism and the exploitation of Islam for personal benefit continued. In fact, the emergence of the Taliban and profusion of the fundamentalist elements were the landmarks of their rule.
The main fault of organised religion is the reliance on violence rather than on the trust in its own truths.
Religious control will inevitably lead to despotism, not democracy, because it privileges power over reason. This should have been reason enough for opposing the efforts of Islamists to enter and seek to seize control of the state and the political marketplace. However, a clear unified lobby who are strong proponents of religious domination, and who provoke attacks on those who value their own autonomy and political choice, are in the driver’s seat. On the other side, there is just a silent populace that has lost its nerve through decades of internal harassment by the ruling forces aligning themselves with the fundamentalists. This one-sided struggle assures victory for those elements that want to ram through their agenda of religious control of state and society.

So, realization is becoming increasingly clear that all hopes are lost for ever now in the Land of the Pure as it moves within striking distance of becoming the Land of the Purest.

One more addition to this Paki "towel throw in" thread.

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Re: Pakistan and Pakistanis - Analysis by Pakistanis

Postby rohitvats » 02 Dec 2012 15:41

Jhujar wrote:Knowingly or unknowlingly , Hassan Nisar is pointing to the travails of convert society.Having none of the foundation, lacking orginal memes ,they remain slave in every true sense of the word. The tormentaion is specially accute in case of Pakistan now forced to watch the rise of Mother Civilization and achieve the glory equal to past .The very idea must be frightning for them . After forsaking , disdaining their own very soul they serve aliens with Roti and Beti and still get treated like disease carrying insects. Poak future is bright, they will have the honor of becoming first nation to be subject of study in Religious Entomology.

Just saw the post....excellent summary. Thanks for putting it up.

Just imagine the dilemma.....Pakistan did not exist before 1947....everything worth any value in that country has its origin and base in India...it is the 'dharohar' of Bharat which has existed for thousands of years...trying to somehow fashion something unique and 'NOT INDIAN' has been the fervent desire and bane of pakees....your description along with one given by Baikul (tendency to separate and then divorce) explains the confusion of the Pakistani mind clearly.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Chinmayanand » 02 Dec 2012 16:59

The video interview of Tarek Fatah is enlightening. It brings new insights into islam and islamic practices as well apart from pakistan.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Baikul » 02 Dec 2012 17:49

This thread could be an excellent resource to look up facts/ comments, etc for propagandu purposes; in specific when debating/ dissemination information online.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Samudragupta » 02 Dec 2012 17:59

Why not Taraq Fateh and Hassan Nissar contribute in this thread???. :) .Any body listening???

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 13 Jan 2013 19:35

x - posting another towel throw, this time by Masud Kausar, the Governor of KP province.
Jhujar wrote:
Governor PKP against two-nation doctrine

Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt governor of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Masud Kausar told journalists that the basis on which Pakistan was created was no longer viable. He said religion had divided the nation and now the only possible binding factor was defence of the state. He said the two-nation doctrine should be replaced since being a Muslim in Pakistan was dangerous because of sectarian divisions.

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta3/tft ... 11&page=14

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 03 Mar 2013 09:06

Elephant in the room
Image By Kunwar Khuldune Shahid March 1, 2013 on 3:08 AM

He’s deadly when he gnashes his teeth

Pak Zoo was carved out of Hind Zoo in 1947, when the imperialistic British zoo-owners got bored of toying with the inhabiting animals, and decided to abscond from animal parks all over the world. For the decade or so leading up to the British selling Hind Zoo, it was clear that the zoo’s ownership would be returned to the locals, but the dynamics of the final deal weren’t quite as unambiguous. After much deliberation and debate, the future of Hind Zoo hinged over the fate of one animal, an elephant named Malsi.

Malsi was born in Saudi Arabia, what seems like ages ago, and was brought to the subcontinent by Arab warriors, who used him to destroy any resistance that they faced in their long journey. Malsi encouraged their imperialistic cravings – among other fetishes – as he stampeded over anyone who denounced the Arabs or didn’t accept the elephant as the supreme authority. After reaching the subcontinent, Malsi first threatened to ‘Arabanise’ Hind, but when that didn’t materialise he found acquiescing followers who ended up creating a whole new zoo for Malsi.

Despite being bestial, perilous and ferocious, Malsi mustered a massive fan following after his arrival in the region. His fans were extremely loyal and made sure – some inadvertently, others intentionally – that Malsi was always depicted as a humble and peaceful creature, which in turn ensured that the aficionados grew in numbers. It was believed that Malsi wouldn’t get proper coverage in Hind because of the presence of other star animals, and hence a struggling lawyer named A M Hannij, taking inspiration from an incoherent poet Labqi, decided to give his own career a massive boost by leading the movement for a separate zoo where Malsi would hog the limelight. But bizarrely, following Pak Zoo’s creation, Hannij addressed the zoo’s management committee on August 11, 1947 announcing how everyone in Pak was free to follow any animal they wanted, much to the bemusement of the committee. 65 years down the line, Hannij’s summersault is still being debated as zoo commentators continue to mull over Pak Zoo’s raison d’etre.

Regardless of what the founding fathers intended, Malsi remains the star of the show in Pak Zoo. His dangerous self is preserved under the pretentious shroud of tranquility as he continues to live in a gargantuan room, designed exclusively to cater to his needs, with other inhabitants being sidelined in crammed cages. Malsi is as popular as ever, and is the centre of just about everything associated with Pak. Throughout the past 65 years or so Malsi has been forced into matters that have got nothing to do with him, and as a result Pak Zoo is taking a nosedive into crisis upon crisis with the Malsi obsession precipitously accelerating. And as the obsession escalates, what no one is realising is that there is no bigger predicament facing Pak than Malsi – the reason behind the zoo’s inception.

From Pak Zoo’s Subjective Solution in 1949 to 1973’s Zoo License Act, Malsi has always been thrust upon the way the zoo would be governed. When you keep a precarious monster, nourish it, make it the be-all end-all of your foundation and then pretend that it’s passive and tranquil, you’re obviously laying the groundwork for eventually being eaten up by the beast. And that is precisely what Malsi has been doing, as we turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room.

Pak Zoo has become a haunted place, with inexplicable occurrences becoming a norm in Malsi’s room. There are mysterious killings, murders, rapes, incidents of violence and bloodshed all over the place, and all in the room belonging to Malsi – the animal of peace. In October last year, Alalam, a 15-year-old school girl was attacked; the previous year a politician named Namlas Reesat was hunted down; the same year, Pak’s representative for other animals, Zabhahs, was killed, and these are just a few high profile cases among incidents of brutality that occur every single day in the zoo. And despite all evidence pointing towards Malsi as the culprit – who would readily accept the blame if anyone bothered checking– the zoo authorities find someone else to point fingers at and ignore the elephant in the room.

Another mindboggling reality about Malsi’s viciousness is that he doesn’t even spare his own followers. The thing is, Malsi’s followers are divided into a plethora of groups and every one of them takes Malsi’s help to butcher the rest. And so, Malsi has helped cement the discriminatory lines that were drawn by the Arabs to distinguish themselves from the rest, and has created hostile divides among its own followers as well. One can gauge the loyalty of Malsi’s followers by the fact that despite being pulverised by the elephant they refuse to abandon their allegiance to Malsi. Perhaps it’s more of a case of loyalty towards your own group, in some cases, more so than any diehard faithfulness with regards to the elephant, which has seen the powerful sects massacre the rest through Malsi.

The Malsi apologists are an interesting creed as well, who despite being vociferous flag-bearers of the elephant’s superiority, never actually pay him a visit. Nevertheless they claim that they know more about Malsi, than those who interact with him on a daily basis. The apologists tow the “animal of peace” line, and conjure nonsensical counter-explanations every time Malsi does someone in. These apologists are a funny lot, they raucously condemn Malsi’ victims and extol the elephant at the same time. They highlight Hannij’s August 11 speech to claim that Pak wasn’t created for Malsi and ignore the lawyer’s speeches over the preceding decade. They assert that everyone should be allowed to follow the animals of their choice, and forget that if that were the case Malsi would never have reached their zoo in the first place. The apologists paint a beautiful picture whenever Malsi smiles, and close their eyes when he gnashes his teeth.

Pak has been feeding and grooming the elephant for 65 years, and in turn paying heavily for the ensuing destruction. The zoo has paid no regard to the animals that have inhabited it for centuries, and has completely destroyed its cultural essence to accommodate a foreign species. It is obvious that Pak can no longer carry Malsi’s weight; it is obvious that Pak can no longer afford being obliterated from the core; it is obvious that Pak can no longer bear Malsi’s violent antics; it is obvious that Pak cannot continue to ignore the elephant in the room; and it is extremely obvious that for Pak Zoo to live on, Malsi must depart.

The writer is a financial journalist and a cultural critic. Email: khulduneshahid@gmail.com, Twitter: @khuldune

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Raja Bose » 03 Mar 2013 10:10

Kanishka wrote:A young Paki woman comparing Indian and paki men.

I am left clueless - what happened in the end?? Did she slap the dude or what?! :mrgreen:

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby chaanakya » 03 Mar 2013 19:02

Pakistan mein jeena mushkil hai aur Mara asaan.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby member_23858 » 03 Mar 2013 21:18

If one can, add KrishnaKrp and sarathipaul on youtube

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 29 Apr 2013 14:43

x- Post

anupmisra wrote:Rip Van Winkle
Or, where's the "towel thread" when you need one.

“Water? People don’t even have food to eat”

You can’t unravel what’s ruined us. And of course there is no money. Not a nickel.
Before long we shall have rolling deserts (Just like our founders) but without jeep safaris and sun-kissed blondes.
The Economist raised alarm bells but with the country’s top legislators barely able to affix thumb to stamp pad, the frightening report went unnoticed.
With water tables plunging down and the faithful multiplying at dizzying speeds, our very existence is now a question mark. Lahore may be lush green but most of Pakistan is ‘brown, dusty and infertile (Pakis cant be infertile as long as they multiply at dizzying speeds).
Water and sewage pipes intermingle happily and gastroenteritis is the national theme. (I thought Islam was the national theme, tarana, junoon and mohabbat) The Himalayan glaciers are calling it a day and river flows could fall by what the World Bank says, “a terrifying” 30-40 percent. US and Australian dams store 900 days worth of river run-off; Pakistan not even 30 days!!

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby kish » 23 May 2013 13:40

This paki knows his peeloved country is doomed, but doesn't know the root cause of the problem. He is blaming America, Feudal lords, etc. Someone has to tell him, its ijlam. :D

Darkness envelops Pakistan

Contemporary Pakistani is divided. Its leaderless population is being exploited by neo-colonial feudal lords looting the people of their socio-economic, moral and political values.

This year's elections didn't change a status-quo symbolized by foreign-dictated governance. Nawaz Sharif is the replacement to Asif Ali Zardari, but Sharif was an integral part of Zardari's regime.

The nation will pay with torment and suffer the insane rages of egomaniac rulers - the political gangsters that show the "right man" syndrome in its most naked form.

In my book Pakistan: Enigma of Change, in the late 1990s, I envisaged a new beginning led by educated and intelligent leaders from a new generation. Change can only come through men of new ideas, a new visionary leadership of integrity and a public movement for change.

For almost two decades, Pakistan's capacity for change has been badly fractured as its moral, intellectual and political consciousness were derailed and undermined by the few.

For several decades, military coups and interventions have eroded the moral and intellectual thread of society. Pakistan and its people are the victim of this prolonged, cruel and unending tragedy.

The generals and their accomplices, the so-called feudal politicians live in different worlds - not able to see the urgency for change.

The global community views them with mistrust and discord, not viable entities of the international system. The irrational system of governance propelled by the few does not offer any rational context to political change and reformation unless there is another bloody outburst challenging the insanity with more vigorous form of tragic insanity.

Nobody thinks of Pakistan, its national interests or the interests of the people. More than 40 years have been stolen from the precious lifeline of the nation of Muslim Pakistan; yet, nobody was ever charged with a crime nor punished for their treachery and monstrous actions against the freedom and integrity of the country :lol: .

East Pakistan now Bangladesh, was lost and surrendered to India because of the plan by the then military-political rulers of the nation in 1971. But since the military took over the reins, unthinking people will come to occupy the highest offices.

Power politics in Pakistan have become an outcome of institutionalized corruption, conspiracies, killings, and treachery to the national interests. The generals, politicians and assemblies are all the outcome of this flourishing industry.

After East Pakistan, a similar situation is evolving in Balochistan and Karachi, and all the major actors appear to be same as were at the time in 1971 :mrgreen: . The first two contending forces are acting on behalf of the foreign masters to further disintegrate Pakistan, and they are well paid and escorted by the ruthless forces of foreign intervention and spying networks.

Even if Pakistan is further ruptured, their dividends-pensions and salaries are guaranteed by the Foreign Master. General Pervez Musharraf currently under arrest and investigation is the role-model of being a subservient to the interests of the foreign Master. Who would know better to calculate the benefits than the former dictator General Musharaf and his immediate colleagues?

Those so called politicians who grab power via backdoor conspiracies and political horse-trading never think of relinquishing their hold on the masses. The rulers are the absolute power in Pakistan. There is no democracy, no political accountability and there is no political system based on any known legitimacy.

The Pakistani rulers have acquired indifference to the public interest and insanity and they are victim of their own obsession. Sharif and the Generals belong to the dead past, and cannot be a hope for the future.

One cannot ignore the fact that some vital segments of the Pakistani nation must have been complacent in institutionalizing corruption and cruel politics. Could the generals, Bhutto, Sharifs and Zardari have stolen time and resources on their own without the large participation of bribed people from within the society?

Dr Qadeer Khan had rightly asked the question: Do Pakistanis have any Gharait (honor").How do we know, Sir ji? :mrgreen:

America is a big player in Pakistan and its security apparatus. The aid gimmick has kept Pakistan interdependent on the policy making of the US administration and a nation being viewed more liability than an asset to the American geo-political interests in that region. The US leaders allege Pakistani rulers (civilians and military) are bribed yet act contrary to the American dictates.

The beggar nation that continues to be living at the mercy of the so called US aid money and foodsBeggar nation..! 8) , often defined as conspiracy to fighting proxy wars in Afghanistan and elsewhere. All that can go wrong have gone wrong with the system of Pakistani governance.

The US intelligence network and the political leadership have full control over all the major affairs of governance in Pakistan. Zardari and the Pakistani Generals are the stooges of the US managed political chessboard. Do these cruel monsters have a future?

Bruce Riedel, One of Obama's advisers on Pakistan and the War on Terrorism said, "2013 could be a transformative year for the country, indeed it will be the battle for the soul of Pakistan."

In a recent Brookings Institute report, "Battle for the Soul of Pakistan", Riedel explained: "One measure of Pakistan's instability is that the country now has between 300 and 500 private security firms, employing 3,00,000 armed guards, most run by ex-generals." What makes the ex-generals want to create a culture of fear and insecurity? Is it that they draw their after-service gratuities from such crime-riddled adventures?

Riedel again:

"So, it is no wonder that the generals prefer to have the civilians responsible for managing the unmanageable, while they guard their prerogatives and decide national security issues. As important as the coming elections will be, the far more important issue is who will be the next Chief of Army Staff."

The US administration dictates Pakistani governance of the few. Sharif is the workable alternative and another "Our Man in Islamabad" replacing Zardari. No matter how suspicious and paranoid the generals and their by-products- Zardaris and Sharifs appear to be, they are people without rational thinking and freedom of thoughts for the good of Pakistan.

Their aims and ambitions are focused on power grabbing, not rebuilding of the much destroyed socio-economic and political infrastructures. Even after recent elections, the nation is divided along many ethnic and political demarcated lines drawn by a few lords.

There is no leader or party to envisage unity of the nation and be able to harmonize all the contending forces for the good of the people. Karachi is hallmark of Muttehada Quami Movement (MQM) gangsterism in collaboration with the Pakistan People's Party, ousted from power in the May 11 election. The daily killing of the innocent is called Karachite politics.Why whine now, after asking for your own country for Indian muslims?

Nobody thinks of stopping the bloodshed and bringing the perpetrators to legal justice.

Prior to the elections, hopes were centered on the Jamait-e-Islami and the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf - led by Imran Khan - the two political parties of reason and moral integrity to bring change to a corrupt system of political governance.

The outcomes signal a vicious and degenerating political future for the nation. Sharif and his collaborators have not been raised or educated with the moral and intellectual leadership needed to lead the nation. In all probability, these new rulers to be have nothing new and positive for the future of Pakistan.

The hope for change and shaping a new Pakistan rests with the new ideas and optimism of the new, educated and intelligent young generation of Pakistanis. Only they have a genuine interest in rebuild a strong foundation for the unity of the nation with Islam as a powerful and unifying force of change.

Dr Mahboob A Khawaja specializes in global security, peace and conflict resolution with keen interests in Islamic-Western comparative cultures and civilizations, and author of several publications including the latest: Global Peace and Conflict Management: Man and Humanity in Search of New Thinking. Lambert Publishing Germany, May 2012.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 22 Jun 2013 03:22

Balloting for Balkanisation

Islamic Republic of Pakistan, is neither Islamic nor a republic and post-1971, not quite PakistanAfter Sir Cyril Radcliffe was given the unenviable task of carving out India and Pakistan from the Indian subcontinent within six weeks in the summer of 1947, he haphazardly sliced out the 450,000 square kilometres of the land he knew very little about. To be fair to the man, a connoisseur wouldn’t have done a prodigiously better job considering how the geographically and ethnically contiguous units had been theological blends. Had the demarcation been done on an ethnical basis, the slicing act would’ve been a relative piece of cake, but wedging out a Muslim homeland and a Hindu-majority secular state from the Hindu-Muslim hotchpotch was a telling task. The Radcliffe Line was the proverbial shot in the dark.

66 years down the line the western wing of Radcliffe’s patchwork, also known as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, has witnessed its ideological glue intermittently come off from various segments. One fragment of the Muslim-majority hodgepodge retraced its own identity in 1971, while four other portions continue to have their differences of varying proportions as they vie to rubberstamp their ethnic superiority. With ethnic and provincial identities regularly being given preference over any national or ideological commonalities, further segments like ‘Saraikistan’ being put on the table and the centre’s inability to govern the frontiers resulting in national and regional instability, proper fragmentation of Pakistan has been proposed by many an academic, along the lines of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union as a solution to the seemingly perennial turmoil – a Balkanisation of Pakistan, if you will.

The army’s dominance in Pakistan and the ensuing Islamist militancy are normally touted as the destabilising factors in the country. And so to peddle the Pakistani Balkanisation at a time when a democratically elected government safely passed on the reins to another democratically elected government, for the first time in the history of the country, might seem a bit ill-timed. However, a look at the voting patterns in last month’s General Elections further adds impetus to the call of potential Balkanisation of Pakistan.

One province singlehandedly gave the current ruling party an overwhelming mandate in the national assembly, another stuck to its old guns, the third summoned the fifth party at the provincial helm in the past couple of decades, while the fourth didn’t really bother joining in on the voting party. The fact that Pakistan does not really have a national party says a lot about any concept of national unity that the patriots might want to peddle. In fact, if there’s any entity that is binding this country together, it is the military. When that’s the case, the realm under the militaristic control can be dubbed a quasi-empire, not a nation. And as Voltaire once said of the Holy Roman Empire, “it’s neither Holy, nor Roman nor an empire”, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, is neither Islamic nor a republic and post-1971, not quite Pakistan.

The proposed Balkanisation would see the merger of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (KPK) and FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) with Afghanistan, officially making the Durand Line what it has been for ages: non-existent. Sindh and Balochistan would break free from the shackles of subjugation to become independent states, while Punjab would be the standalone remnant of Pakistan. Any calls for the independence of any of the provinces is obviously dubbed high-treason, but to believe that one could cogently fuse units, that don’t really want to exist in unison, for considerable length of time, is medieval thinking.

This week’s Ziarat attack was yet another reminder of the Balochistan question. :eek: A resource-rich region like Balochistan becoming a financial mess and in turn the hub of turbulence is a massive price to pay for delusions of national unity. 66 years worth of human rights abuse, ethnic cleansing, military operations and the myriad missing persons in the garb of patriotism, should suffice is throwing any inkling of Pakistani nationalism out of the Baloch windows. When one tries to comprehend the quintessence of “nationalism”, the irony that surfaces is that Balochistan’s call for independence is prodigiously stronger as compared to Pakistan’s call for independence from the Indian subcontinent. Balochistan is doing to Pakistan what Pakistan did to pre-1947 United India, albeit with more of a claim to being a nation.

Whether Pakistan’s raison d’etre :mrgreen: was Islamic or secular consociationalism – a term that funnily enough didn’t exist at the time – its carving out was supposed to be done on a “Muslim majority” basis, which was the instruction given to Sir Cyril Radcliffe. By defining the new realm, and distinguishing a separate nation, on the basis of the religion of its inhabitants, the founders of Pakistan not only buried any modern-day claims of secularity, but also laid the foundation of similar separatist movements in Pakistan. Castigating the use of ethnicity and venerating using religious identity for a nationalist movement uses the same double-standard gauge that highlights freedom fighters of the Balochistan Liberation Army as terrorists.

With Pakistan’s own born and bred militant groups becoming more of a threat to the national security than any foreign state that you might want to point your finger at, Balkanisation is a solution to the turbulence in the country and a possible answer to regional stability.The breakup of Yugoslavia is a classic example of achieving relative stability in regions with ethnic turmoil, and South Asia :mrgreen: is undoubtedly the Balkans of the 21st century. Even so, in addition to possible regional stability, separation of provinces and the dissolution of united Pakistan would mirror the country’s own birth and its preceding movement, and in turn provide the answers to many scathing questions that we have been dodging for the past 66 years. The concept of unity was lost on founders of Pakistan, and the irony that we expect the Baloch nationalists to adhere to that concept, seems to be lost on the modern-day Pakistanis. :lol:

Through the general elections, the masses might have inadvertently balloted for Balkanisation. Whether for regional security or to collectively drag itself out of an identity crisis, Pakistan might have to cease its existence as a security state where the constituent units have been woven together through theocratic and militaristic filaments. And just like the Austrian Empire of 1815, the Pakistan of 2013 is akin to a “worm-eaten house”, if one of its parts is removed, no one can tell how much of it will fall.

The writer is a financial journalist and a cultural critic.
Email: khulduneshahid@gmail.com, Twitter: @khuldune

Nice sense of irony on this guy.

One of the replies .
Best conclusion about Pakistan "the Pakistan of 2013 is akin to a 'worm-eaten house', if one of its parts is removed, no one can tell how much of it will fall"

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby sanjaykumar » 22 Jun 2013 03:59

In actuality Pakistan is more akin to a car kept together by rust. Pakistan dare not clean the rust lest the machine disintegrate.

The only problem with this analogy is that ferric oxide is red, perhaps cupric oxide would be better.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby anupmisra » 22 Jun 2013 05:26

Lilo wrote:Sir Cyril Radcliffe was given the unenviable task of carving out India and Pakistan from the Indian subcontinent

Pakis are known for twisting facts to suit their nationalistic goals even in times of self doubt while continuing to blame others for their 65 years of self-wrought misery. The author of this article implies that both India and pa'astan were carved out of the Indian sub-continent. Realists and the rest of the world look at it another way: Pa'astan was carved out of Greater India.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby anupmisra » 22 Jun 2013 05:28

sanjaykumar wrote:In actuality Pakistan is more akin to a car kept together by rust.

Therefore, implying, that in pa'astan rust as the glue is more valuable than what the rust (glue) is holding together. Is malsi the rust we are talking about?

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby sanjaykumar » 22 Jun 2013 05:49

Oxides of copper are green.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Prem » 28 Jun 2013 01:39

Ladies and gentlemen, we suck!

Sucking AAA was Qaid's Bargain; He sucked For Few Days and Poaqs will suck for generations

There was a time when Muslims were the most peaceful group of people in the world. They ruled half the Earth, and established a perfect model of governance. Muslim scientists were the pioneers of modern-day science. The great Mughal Empire built the most beautiful examples of architecture ever witnessed by mankind.Muslims were brave and pious, righteous and honourable, enlightened and well-visioned. However, slowly and gradually, the Zionist forces and deputies of Satan with magical powers started to plot against the mighty Muslims. They stole our scientific knowledge, captured our lands through manipulation, and secretly lead us towards dismay.
Modern-day Muslims are a sad group of people, divided amongst themselves, and declining by each passing day. Even today, it is the Zionists who plot and plan against the welfare of the Muslims.
Let us look at the holy state of Pakistan. After suffering the atrocities of non-Muslims for 90 long years, the noble Muslims of Hindustan finally gained independence under the able leadership of the Muslim League (the one with no initial attached to it). All members of the Muslim League were pious Muslims, and after the sacrifices that went into making this country, there was no doubt that it would go on to become one of the super powers of the world in the near future.But alas, the Zionists intervened yet again, causing instability within the region and causing the people of varying ethnicities to hate each other to the point where they can take each other’s lives, causing corrupt governments to come into power, causing the country to become an embarrassment on the face of the pious Muslims world.
Sorry, guys. I am really sorry, but I can’t go any further. I can’t go any further without saying that, in reality, we suck.Yes, we suck. We suck as a nation, we suck at doing justice to our beliefs and we suck as human beings. We’re not good people. We hate each other. We’re numb to the things that go on around us as long as we are not affected by them. We shower murderers with rose petals; we lead protests for Muslims killed thousands of miles away and ignore the ones killed on our very streets.
We don’t respect our heroes. We condemn our corrupt leaders but subconsciously we know that if we were in their place we would do the same. Even if we don’t know, I am telling you that we would. Our leaders represent us; we are the reason they have enjoyed the fruits of power time and again.
We suck. The world has gone far beyond our reach. Face it. Accept it. Yes, we have Abdul Sattar Edhi but we also have several people who would shoot people like him if they have unfavourable names. Yes, we have Professor Adeeb Rizvi, but we also have hate preachers in countless places all across the country, brainwashing our children and feeding the pest of hate to their hearts.
We suck. Way too many people are dying every day. Yes, the population of Karachi is estimated at 20 million, so 377 deaths in 42 deaths is not that big a proportion. But these 377 lives were not lost in accidents; they were taken intentionally. We are quiet; we are numb, because we genuinely suck.
This is not an article to paint a negative picture of Pakistan. There are enough people doing that on a daily basis. And I honestly don’t care about some elements in our neighbour who naturally harbours hate for us. I don’t care if he is jumping in his chair in jubilation agreeing to every word being said here. I don’t care.So what’s the point then? Open your eyes. We suck. Realise it. It’s not a Zionist agenda that makes us spit pan on hospital walls. It’s not some secret sorcery on some forsaken mountain that makes us lack morals. A country made to secure the rights of minorities has started genocide of its minorities and we are quiet. Why? Because we suck ( Mushallah, Indians want only 16% of Pakistan to Suck) We’re going back whilst the world is moving forward. It’s about time we opened our eyes now. Let’s finish the hatred in our hearts. Let us learn to care.We suck. Let’s accept it so that we can stop doing so.huda Hafiz, or Allah Hafiz. Whatever makes you happy. No issue, really.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ramana » 28 Jun 2013 02:54

Re psot above
khuldun e shahid article has a tag line:
The writer is a financial journalist and a cultural critic.

Pakistan has no finances nor any culture.

So what is he working on?

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby chaanakya » 17 Aug 2013 10:56

How many more will molt into Mohammad Sikandar?

By Khaled Ahmed

On Aug. 15, the same day that interior minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan presented his government’s national-security policy to Parliament, 51-year-old Mohammad Sikandar drove his wife and two children to Islamabad for an hours-long, made-for-TV showdown with police in the middle of the road that leads to Parliament.

Sikandar, the son of a land-records functionary in Hafizabad, Punjab, was armed with a Kalashnikov and a submachine gun. He made his demands—forwarded on a piece of paper by his wife, who was not opposed to what he was doing—known to a police officer. Sikandar called for disbanding the elected government currently in power and for imposing a truly Islamic system on Pakistan. If his demands could not be met, Sikandar said he wished to be killed and buried at sea—like Osama bin Laden.

Semiliterate Sikandar mouthed the myths created by the state of Pakistan back at it. He aped the terrorists at the unconscious level, adopting their appeals to the broken pledges of the ideological state, and clearly embraced the rhetoric of religious parties who accept the status quo with strong, clearly expressed reservations of the “incomplete state.” He also resorted to the line adopted by Al Qaeda after its top leader’s death—and supported by Pakistan—that bin Laden’s murder was wrong. He added to it the universally accepted “truism” in the country that the state of Pakistan is a “slave” of America.

His father-in-law told the media that Sikandar was mentally disturbed—“had psychological problems”—but was not linked to any religious organization. This could be said about most Pakistanis because the collective mind has been molded by the state to justify its stance until it looks abnormal to any objective observer. (An objective observer has to be either a foreigner or a Pakistani who has “sold himself to foreign powers.”)

It is very difficult for such an observer to separate “religious organizations” from terrorism. There are two shades of meaning to set apart here. There are the religious organizations (like Jamaat-e-Islami, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, etc.) who are “legal” and take part in elections but who nonetheless reserve their judgment about the validity of Pakistan as an Islamic state. Sikandar could be repeating what he heard from their platform about the “slavish” foreign policy of Pakistan and an “incomplete” Islamic state where usury is the foundation of the national economy. Usury is banned by the Quran and the Supreme Court.

Then there are the “religious organizations” that are banned as terrorist organizations under international pressure but who have served in the past as instruments of the Pakistan Army’s cross-border “asymmetrical war” (like Jaish-e-Muhammad, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, etc.) who survive because the state might need them again. Jaish has been known to have links inside the military—as in the case of Air Force officer Adnan Rasheed who has turned terrorist—but now count themselves among the allies of Al Qaeda.

Then there is the case of “semi-banned” religious organizations—semi-banned because the label of terrorism given to them at the international level has been stripped by the judiciary at the level of the High Court or Supreme Court. This category contains Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar-e-Taiba. The first has renamed itself Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaat and the latter as Jamat-ud-Dawah. Both are members of the Defense of Pakistan Council, which opposes Pakistan’s efforts at normalization of relations with India, a stance it is perceived to share with the Pakistan Army, as manifested in the ill-conceived military policy of fielding their retired officers in TV discussions where they oppose the normalization trend.

All these banned and semi-banned organizations are allied to international terrorism through an avowed or un-avowed connection with global terrorism. They derive their strength from the fact that their ideology is the same as the ideology of Pakistan; only their version of it is considered by their followers as more “pure” than the functional state of Pakistan. Their appeal is strong because they don’t want Islam removed from public life—as the last surviving secularists do—they want it “completed” through the enforcement of such cardinal acts of faith as extirpation of modern banking, imposition of compulsory collective prayer, and observance of jihad. They regard democracy as a Western imposition and recommend the erection of khilafat.

Pakistan has shot itself in the foot by espousing the cause of international terrorism on a number of issues. It believes America is not a friend but an enemy aligned with India and Israel, bent on weakening and destroying Pakistan by stripping it of its nuclear weapons. Pakistan has allowed the media trend of “America hatred”—which invariably turns out to be hatred of the West and its values—until 80 percent of Pakistanis say they view America with hostility. After having thus brainwashed the public mind the state now follows the public mind no matter where it may take it, as in the case of Lal Masjid and Aafia Siddiqui.

A newspaper today makes an elaborate case claiming that Sikandar may have been influenced by the CIA, Mossad, and RAW while employed in Dubai.

It was therefore only logical that Sikandar, who followed the line inculcated by the state, was suddenly treated to another line also laid down by the state and its functionaries: that Sikandar was in fact an American operative sent from Dubai.

A newspaper today makes an elaborate case saying that Dubai, from where Sikandar had returned to Pakistan after lengthy employment, is crawling with CIA, Mossad, and RAW operatives who could have influenced Sikandar. (It does not say why the three secret agencies would plan the kind of meaningless standoff in Islamabad that Sikandar ended up staging. It however speculated that he could have been planning to attack Parliament.) The paper refers to the death in a Dubai hotel room of a Palestinian at the hands of Mossad in January 2010. It also refers to the death in Lahore of Khalid Bashir, a companion of Jamat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Saeed. Bashir was killed by someone within Taiba ranks, but Saeed said the killer had been sent by India. Supporting Saeed’s claim, the paper adds that some link to Dubai too was traced in Bashir’s murder. Thus it “proves” in a preliminary way that Sikandar also may have fallen prey to an Indian intrigue to cause disturbance in Islamabad. :rotfl:

The India-through-Dubai link has been inspired by the current atmosphere of warlike confrontation with India, caused by what India alleged was an incursion of Pakistani elements across the Line of Control in Kashmir that killed five Indian troops earlier this month. Add to this tension the more-than-normal monsoon rainfall in the country causing floods—which the media has also blamed on India. Once again the Pakistani mind, shaped by the state, was challenging the state: reply to India’s “water war”!

Under the Indus Waters Treaty of 1960, River Chenab belongs to Pakistan ( their sense of entitlement is amazing)and India can’t dam its water during its passage through India. The media accused—and the government did not challenge the accusation—that India had opened the floodgates of the Chenab on an already flooded Pakistan. It did not say which dam in India on Chenab waters had been used to flood Pakistan because so far all the Indian dams challenged internationally by Pakistan have been found not to be storing the kind of water that can flood Pakistan. India cannot build that kind of a dam on the Chenab.

Hafiz Saeed took no time to challenge India once again. On Aug. 15, newspapers published his latest dare to India while the government was taking a moderate line, accusing India of “water aggression” against Pakistan. With millions of American dollars riding on him as head-money, arguably the most powerful man in Pakistan was simply consolidating the mind the state has nurtured against itself.

Under stress, many more Pakistanis may act like Sikandar. The social-media reaction features many who take his side and think like him.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Jarita » 17 Aug 2013 18:34

All those Delhi people who like to say that Pakistanis are the same people as Indians need to know that the Pakistani has actually evolved into a different race (species will come later) due to two simple factors
- severe brainwashing that has caused cognitive dissonance
- intermarrying over the last 100's of years ( not just after independence) that has truly affected the genes. In fact this might be at play prior to independence as well which is what prompted the vicious attacks on their Hindu and Sikh neighbors during partition). If you study the behavior and mannerisms of highly inbred societies in the US, they are very similar but those societies are microscopic and hence contained. People stay out of these communities which have their own ghettos. For some extreme renditions watch the movie Deliverance and the X-file episode Home.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Lilo » 05 Oct 2013 17:51

Peregrine wrote:War not peace


Cheers Image

Since the last All Parties Conference recognized the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan as “stakeholders” with whom to hold “unconditional peace talks”, TTP franchises have responded by launching a new wave of terror in which nearly 300 people, including 39 soldiers, have been killed in the last thirty days, a hike of nearly 40% in the number of attacks in September. The irony is that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan insist that these attacks are not the handiwork of the Taliban while the TTP leaders brazenly take responsibility for them.

Now the country’s religious leaders want the Sharif government to order an unconditional “ceasefire” of security forces in order to start the “peace dialogue”. But the TTP has laid down two core preconditions for dialogue: a withdrawal of the security forces from FATA and an end to US drone strikes against them. In fact, Maulana Fazlullah, who tried to assassinate Malala, killed innocent foreign trekkers in the northern areas, and recently assassinated a Maj-General and Colonel of the Pakistan army, has announced his intention to target-kill the army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, following which he says he will launch operations to seize and occupy Swat again.

As the TTP’s warring continues, Imran Khan has suggested that the terrorists should be allowed to open an office in FATA in order to facilitate peace talks. If the Americans could enable the Afghan Taliban to open an office in Doha, he argues, why can’t we follow the same strategy against the TTP at home?

This is an outrageous, indeed dangerous, suggestion. The Taliban’s strategy is clear.

First, the Afghan Taliban are stakeholders in the continuing civil war in Afghanistan, triggered by the ouster of the Taliban regime in Kabul by American forces in 2000, in the run-up to an American withdrawal in 2014. In Pakistan, on the contrary, there is no such reason to consider the TTP as a stakeholder in any battle for Islamabad. Second, the Doha office was established outside Afghanistan in order to facilitate a dialogue with the core stakeholder Karzai regime in Kabul. But it closed down when the Karzai regime denounced the Afghan Taliban for raising their flag of the Taliban Emirate of Afghanistan over the office to signify its status as an “embassy” reflecting their sole status as legitimate rulers of Kabul. But if the government of Pakistan were to formally approve an “office” for the Taliban inside FATA, it would signal sanctioning a TTP “office” on TTP’s “sovereign territory”. In effect, this would mean that Islamabad recognizes the legitimacy of FATA’s secession from Pakistan and accepts the right of the TTP to stake a claim on the rest of the country!

In fact, this is precisely the problem. Consider.

There are three strands of terrorists among the Taliban. First, there are Mullah Umar’s Afghan Taliban based in southern Afghanistan. They are readying for a forceful attack on Kabul after US forces depart and the Karzai regime becomes vulnerable. For them, Pakistan’s North Waziristan and Balochistan provinces offer “strategic depth” bases from where to plan, organize and launch attacks inside Afghanistan. These “bases” are occupied by the Haqqani-network Taliban. Then there are the foreign Uzbeks, Chechens, Egyptians, Arabs, etc who constitute Al-Qaeda led by the Egyptian Ayman Al-Zawahiri. These were originally based in Afghanistan under Osama bin Laden when the Taliban ruled Kabul. Now they are based in Pakistan’s FATA as political commissars, planners and commandants of the Taliban forces. Then there is the third force, the TTP.

Both Al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taliban have consciously built the TTP and facilitated its rise as a violent force for their grand regional strategy after the withdrawal of US forces from the region. Their sole aim is to help the TTP capture and retain FATA, initially as a strategic depth base area for themselves and eventually, in the event of their failure to capture Kabul, as part of a new Emirate of the Taliban incorporating Afghan areas to the south of and east of Kabul and to the north of Pakistan that are contiguous with Afghanistan. This ties in with historical Afghan claims over FATA and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and their consistent refusal to recognize the Durand Line as the official border with Pakistan.

If the Al-Qaeda-Afghan Taliban-TTP network succeeds in establishing a safe strategic base area or Emirate-State incorporating parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan, then global “Islamic” terrorists will fly in the droves to this new “country” from which to plan and launch attacks in the region and beyond. That will suck in foreign powers again. But this time it will be Pakistan with its endangered nukes and not stone age Afghanistan{pretty please paki !! Calling Afghanistan to be living in stone age while boasting pakiland to be in nuclear age} that will be the sole object of everyone’s grab for power or security. This is why it is critical to understand the Taliban-Al-Qaeda network as an “existential threat” to Pakistan that must be uprooted before it succeeds in destroying Pakistan. That is why full-fledged war and not unconditional withdrawal from FATA is the only answer.

Hajam Sethi says in as many words that are possible..
That the destiny of Pakistan - Is to be the strategic depth of Taleban.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby vishvak » 05 Oct 2013 20:20

Just as Taliban are bombing others how come no one is talking of destroying anything belonging to Taliban that moves or not. AlKeda and Taliban are no more than that and deserve nothing more than that.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Agnimitra » 13 Oct 2013 03:37

Rawal TV, dubbed "Qadiani TV" by some, ran this program by Baland Iqbal:

Failure of Ideological States in the Betterment of Humanity


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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Manish_P » 03 Oct 2017 20:29

Cross post from the Terroristan thread - posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=2220481#pr2220481

SSridhar wrote:A Glimpse of how jihadi fever grips the Pakistani society - DT
Growing up in the Jihadist Pakistan of the late 1980s and 1990s had certain advantages that ignorance bestowed upon its adherents. Youth — myself included — carried a very simple worldview that had a promise of an ultimate victory for (Pakistani) Muslims, and a crushing defeat for the non-Muslim world. A large chunk of my generation, and that too coming from lower middle and poor social economic strata, felt extremely charged and motivated to go out, wage Jihad, kill and be killed. Aggression and death were romanticised by whatever form of the publicity was available those days with PTV in the lead.

I clearly recall that Jamaat-e-Islami and other Jihadist organisations would bring Mujahideen from Afghanistan to my little hometown, Malakwal, to motivate the local youth, and probably also as part of a larger narrative building in favor of the State that fought in Afghanistan. Once the Afghan Jihad was ending, the Kashmir Jihad started, and the Jihad Incorporated started bringing to Malakwal Kashmiri Mujahideen. These Mujahideen would address throngs of locals at the erstwhile Railway Chowk, later renamed as Milad Chowk when Gen Zia started his synthetic Islamisation.

I also remember writing to Jamaat-e-Islami in early 1990s along with my paternal cousin Danial to recruit us and take us to Bosnia. We, as youth, wanted to die in glory of the battle, and what better way could be to heavens than dying in the name of Allah in a foreign battlefield where Muslims were persecuted, brutalised and killed? I and Danial were not alone who fell victim to an extremely unhealthy national narrative of militancy that eventually drove Pakistan to where it is now.

A relief that neither I nor Danial went to fight anywhere and survived to live our lives today — but many did. Some returned, some didn’t. The ones who didn’t would have their names written on shabby metallic boards alongside the potholed roads, mostly in the countryside of Punjab where their mothers mourned, fathers wept silently, sisters longed for brothers, and wives stared with empty eyes unsure of their future. As it all happened to poor and lower middle-class families in Pakistan, the official and religious leaders of the Jihad Incorporated had their sons becoming bankers, doctors, actuarialsts, industrialists, stock brokers, and computer engineers. These sons and daughters of the official and religious leaders greatly benefitted from the economy of a falsified Jihad. Ironically, they now make quite a fair part of the ruling elite and lecture lesser human beings about Pakistan.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Philip » 07 Oct 2017 18:35

Zionists and their magical powers,pious Muslims who created Pak,conspiracy to destroy Pak by India.....blah,blah. What are these good folk,pious Muslims of Pak smoking? I thought that their "Djinn power" once mentioned by a Paki poster,was/is protecting Pak!

I think that there are quite a few critical Pak journo who still write fearlessly about their "Rommels and Guderians"
vain boasting about how they're going to race to Dilli cometh the next war. A few of these opinions would be most welcome on this td.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Prem » 08 Oct 2017 00:20

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Manish_P » 18 May 2018 11:53

Your ‘new’ Pakistan

DESPONDENT Pakistanis would put their heads on the railway tracks, if they could be sure trains would arrive on time.
Or they would swallow phials of cyanide, if these were not adulterated.
They could always electrocute themselves, if they knew when load-shedding would occur.
And they could shoot themselves, if guns were not snug in the holsters of security personnel or in the hands of militants.

Meanwhile, Pakistanis are forced to expire slowly every day.

Take our toothless foreign policy. After 70 years of cohabitation with the United States, we have decided that even a belated too little is more than enough. We have chosen to confront our long-term benefactor the US, this time over one of its Islamabad-based officials — Col Joseph Hall, defence and air attaché. He was charged with manslaughter. It must have been galling for Washington to fly a C-130 from Afghanistan to Islamabad to collect him, and then have to return empty-handed. (He has since left the country on another aircraft.) Exactly seven years ago, in May 2011, US Stealth Black Hawk helicopters made a similar sortie, with greater success. They flew at leisure in and out of Abbottabad, and took back as cargo Osama Bin Laden.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Vivasvat » 10 Jun 2018 10:51

We are beggars... :((

:P :rotfl:

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby anupmisra » 11 Jun 2018 18:27

Expat Pakistani talent
Three words that should not gel together in a single phrase.

Most of these countries have invested heavily in their higher educational institutions and research establishments, sent hordes of young men and women for advanced studies particularly in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) subjects.
what is the situation in Pakistan?
There has been a serious diminution in the reservoir of our highly educated talent. In 1989/90, as many as 7,010 Pakistani students were enrolled in US universities and those from India were 26,240 ie a ratio of 1:4. By 2014-15 the disparity is simply astounding — 132,888 Indians vs only 5,354 Pakistanis, a ratio of 1:25. Most of the Indians were enrolled for advanced degrees in STEM subjects in leading universities. Faculty members and research scientists of Indian origin run into the thousands while we have only a handful of Pakistanis. In an earlier search for recruiting faculty for IBA, I found there were 250 faculty members of Indian origin teaching in the top 10 business schools in the US while we were represented by only four young women.
My experience as a member of various search committees for selecting vice chancellors shows how narrow-minded, myopic, parochial and inward-looking we have become. Let alone those working abroad, candidates from other provinces, however capable or competent, are shunned on account of political preferences.
There is a feeling that a transplant surgeon despite having trained and worked abroad should not be given a salary higher than the chief secretary.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1413386/expat ... ani-talent

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby Manish_P » 08 Mar 2019 12:35

On the ocassion of Womens Day, an article on the gender barriers by a New York-Rawalpindi Journo. Touches the class aspect too

Why do women have to sit in family halls in restaurants?

The family hall is about women. Yet, it is categorically not the woman’s hall, in that it does not belong to women.

Even as a changing economy insisted on more women in public spaces, General Ziaul Haq’s Islamist regime was ensuring that they be seen as little as possible. Restaurants wanted to get customers but also had to cement their reputation as respectable establishments. Into this delicate balance between the worship of God and Capital entered the family hall.

Today, these halls are a necessary investment for any restaurant hoping to do good business with the middle-class. They are permanent fixtures across major cities and come in all shapes and forms.

On the other hand, by institutionalising the family hall, these restaurants perpetuate segregation on two levels. Even without such a space, most women would find their way towards the back of the room, in a corner away from men. The instinct to take up as little air as possible — the aspiration for invisibility — now runs deep in our blood.

People often prefer to eat at home, where their domestic help eats standing up in the kitchen, on plates that bear a different design. If we do go outside, we want to eat with others like us. “Udhar bethne ka koi haal naheen,” we say. “Har tarah ke log hotay hein,” we say.

The profound irony is that ours is a culture built on interpersonal dependence. We rely on people around us to do incredibly intimate chores for us. Pakistanis are more than okay with ayahs feeding their precious babies, chachas making their food, the dhobi washing their soiled underwear.

Yet, when it comes to sharing a table with others, most of us prefer the clumsy meal in the car or the reheated nihari at the dining table, because the alternative would be to sit with someone who is not like us.

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Re: A Mirror on Pakistan: In their own words by Pakistanis

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Mar 2019 15:34

All this Rona dhona should be ended once and for all.
This is a nation that would shame the stone age.

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