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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 09:28
by Kanson
Often we here the term Chinese Culture. May we know from Chinese what they believe as their Chinese culture ?

From movies, all that is depicted as Chinese culture is the martial arts revolving around Shaolin Temple or about Shangai Politics or about their military PLA.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 09:43
by chaanakya
Jimi wrote:
TOI, known by Indians as the Toilet paper, is following suit of Voice of Amarica (VoA) and BBC, whose biased reporting regarding China ruined the trust of Chinese people towards the "freedom of press" in the west. Just like the Indian style demoCrazy ruined the name of democracy. China is still searching the way to develop into a true representative democracy, in which votes and media cannot be bought by interests groups and feudal (read royal) political families, just because of the presence of bad examples not to follow.


Yeah I know , you need perfect example to be xeroxed as usual like this one among many

Chinese Secretly Copy Austrian UNESCO Town


Copycat Town

"Spying" by Chinese architects would not have been conspicuous in Hallstatt, where there are up to 800,000 visitors each year who "photograph everything and everyone," Scheutz told Austrian news agency APA.

Representatives from the Alpine village's historic church are also concerned. Copying a house of God for use as a tourist attraction is problematic, Catholic priest Richard Czurylo told daily Die Presse, adding that at the very least, the new church must be declared a place of prayer.

....
....
This isn't the first time a Chinese firm has used a European place as inspiration.
The Chinese city of Anting, some 30 kilometers from Shanghai, created a district designed to accommodate 20,000 residents called "German Town Anting." Modelled after a typical mid-size German city by architecture firm Albert Speer & Partner, it includes Bauhaus style architecture and a fountain with statues of Goethe and Schiller.

In 2005 Chengdu British Town was modelled on the English town of Dorchester.
One year later Thames Town was finished near Shanghai, complete with a 66-meter tall church that bears a striking resemblance to a cathedral in Bristol. Also near Shanghai are mini versions of Barcelona, Venice and the Scandinavian-inspired Nordic Town. The architectural plagiarisms are popular destinations among middle-class Chinese, even serving as backdrops for wedding photos.

Did you notice the Moneky syndrome here . How deep you suffer identity crisis after being done in by Japanese and British colonisers to xerox everything that you think would give you an aura of modernisation and progressive civilisation. Form but no content. You have still not found a democracy worth enough to copy but developed your own way of suppressing people's voice in Tienanmen square. In terms of Ideas and culture or institutions , you have nothing to give to others but fried rice and noodles.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 10:05
by member_20021
Kanson wrote:Often we here the term Chinese Culture. May we know from Chinese what they believe as their Chinese culture ?

From movies, all that is depicted as Chinese culture is the martial arts revolving around Shaolin Temple or about Shangai Politics or about their military PLA.


Very good question. I believe that the most recent book by Kissinger "On China" (http://www.amazon.com/China-Henry-Kissi ... 774&sr=8-1) gives a quite well-rounded introduction to your question. I have to log off, but will be back to provide you some of my thoughts on your question.
Thanks.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 10:24
by Kanson
ltaakat wrote:daimutou:

说实在话吧,在中国只要不扯到体制上,什么言论自由都和世界同步的
欧美论坛也删除用户留言好不好
三哥老拿这个玩意鄙视中国人是非常无聊的
然后回答三哥们的几个问题
一:为啥老说中国打压印度,扯淡,中国出了名的软蛋,当然在国内来看,就是这么回事。
二:中国有句俗话叫家家有本难念的经,我们渴望自由,但自由是建立在物质基础上的(清高的人不少,但过日子的还是大多数的)有饭吃,有房住,有妹子可以 玩,鬼才管他谁执政呢,实实在在的东西才叫东西懂吗?当然三哥们是不在乎的,你们要看哪个执政党承诺大,选哪个上台。说穿了,就是比赛吹牛皮
三:至于歧视吗?每个国家都有,白种人高级点,搞个东西叫种族歧视,印度人水平低点,至今徘徊在种姓上面,要说的是这个就别批评中国人了,中国国内都搞地域歧视呢。谁有空鸟你们啊。
四:三哥老说中国怎么样,怎么样的,说实话,中国庞大的网友在国际问题上真的很少会去搭理你们,为啥?你们政治家,媒体,无良记者爱吹牛,爱下空承诺懂 吗?中国也爱吹牛,但中国媒体的吹牛本事和印度媒体一比,简直是渣啊,久而久之,在中国人印象里:未来属于印度,过去起源韩国,现在掌握在国军手里,东亚 三宝(后面2个你们就别管了)
五:印度就和中国友好了,和日本吧,日本人对你们印象很好的,俗话说远交近攻,三哥们好好想想吧,解释太累了
OVER了

To be frankly, if only not talk about the state system in China, we got quite a right of free speech.
Even the forums in EU and US will delete the posters they don’t like.
It is kind of boring that Indians use the freedom of speech to despise Chinese.
Then I’d like to answer some questions from Indians.
1. Why you always talking about China is bully on India, it is totally bullshit, China is famous for its flabbiness, we Chinese don’t think we can bully on you.
2. We desire for freedom, but freedom is based on the material basis(some people are living in a higher level, but most people still need to live in a normal life.) If we got food, we got houses, we got girls, who the hell cares about who’s in charge of the government? Don’t know whether you guys care about it or not.
3. According to the discrimination, it existed in every country, the whites call it racism, you guys call it caste system, even within the China, people from different provinces might discriminate on each other.
4. You always talk about China seems like China is always doing bad things to you. To be honest, some Chinese people considered the Indian medias are very boasting, the impression your media left to us is “the future is yours, always yours.” Well, now you can see what we think about you.
5. Japanese can be another friend of yours, they have good impression on you. Think about it.
OVER.


2. We desire for freedom, but freedom is based on the material basis(some people are living in a higher level, but most people still need to live in a normal life.) If we got food, we got houses, we got girls, who the hell cares about who’s in charge of the government? Don’t know whether you guys care about it or not.
Yeah, the same thing what any autocratic/totalitarian rulers wants their subjects to be. From Rome to present China, it is the case. These attitudes by default creates a separate ruling class among their citizens as ordinary citizens are not taking ownership of their country. India is not an exception. Even in India, Political parties do that. But we do bring down those parties when it is not in the interest of nation.

Anyway, freedom is their own choice. You can't understand freedom by mere description from others. You have to taste for your own. You don't understand 'heaven' but siting in this earth.

4. You always talk about China seems like China is always doing bad things to you. To be honest, some Chinese people considered the Indian medias are very boasting, the impression your media left to us is “the future is yours, always yours.” Well, now you can see what we think about you.
What about your Global Times? Your media portrays your country as the one having hegemonic characters. It warns of teaching lessons to any country it doesn't like. On the boasting thing, is it something very wrong? Media in every country does that, isn't it? Did your media boasted anything other than your country rise and about your CCP party?

1. Why you always talking about China is bully on India, it is totally bullshit, China is famous for its flabbiness, we Chinese don’t think we can bully on you.
Because your media says so. Actions of your military says so. Your past actions of your Government says so. How you feel if US transfer Nuclear weapons to Vietnam during your war with Vietnam? How you feel the presence of US aircraft carriers guarding the traits in your stand off with Taiwan. This is want China doing to us, India.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 10:27
by Kanson
Jimi wrote:
Kanson wrote:Often we here the term Chinese Culture. May we know from Chinese what they believe as their Chinese culture ?

From movies, all that is depicted as Chinese culture is the martial arts revolving around Shaolin Temple or about Shangai Politics or about their military PLA.


Very good question. I believe that the most recent book by Kissinger "On China" (http://www.amazon.com/China-Henry-Kissi ... 774&sr=8-1) gives a quite well-rounded introduction to your question. I have to log off, but will be back to provide you some of my thoughts on your question.

Thanks.


I'm not interested in any foreigner's view on China. My question is straight. What are Chinese views on their culture? Or What do they want to call as their culture?

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 14:51
by PrasadZ
ltaakat wrote:3. From the perspective of nations. The relationship of countries is a process of one against another. Most Indian felt angry for China’s supporting Pakistan, they think to be a friend of India must stop the relationship with Pakistan first. This point of view is kinda ridiculous. Because there are so mJany countries in the world, not only India, which means we should make more friends with other countries. India and China is not an alliance, so we have no duty to tell the other how to do. What’s more, before China and Pakistan established diplomatic relation, India has done some bad things to China, like incited China separating into pieces; fomented conflicts between China and other countries near China. Indian people ignored these facts. Before they say China can’t be trusted, have they thought about that India used to did the same thing?

Shanghai has not had indians trained by the army bombing them. Bombay has pakistans trained by the army doing so. If this qualitative difference is unknown and unacknowledged, we can only blame the CPC which promotes pakistan as a good friend to the chinese. Do note indians blame the govt, not the people. Chinese visiting both india and pakistan would note no extra friendship or enmity on either side of the border.


4. The comments about India and Japanese cultures seems kinda ridiculous, everyone knows the Buddhism in Japan was transferred from China long long ago. The traditional Japanese culture was the expansion of ancient Chinese culture. In addition, it is a modern society now, even India itself doesn’t have many Buddhists. Isn’t that is funny for India to blame China abandoned Buddhism, and abandoned the cultural connection with India?

Most indians would note buddhism as an offshoot of hinduism, not a different religion. Practices within hinduism can differ as much as between buddhism and hinduism. Practices between buddhist streams also differ similarly without becoming a different religion. There is a continuum between our traditions that doesnt exist with other religions like islam and christianity. Please look up the common roots of both our continuing traditions. We feel as much pride in it as you do. On a jingo forum, this pride can come across as aggression perhaps but your forums might show similar aggression to us while your people, on actual visits, show similar kindness and curiosity

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 15:02
by PrasadZ
ltaakat wrote:Even the forums in EU and US will delete the posters they don’t like.
It is kind of boring that Indians use the freedom of speech to despise Chinese.

Wang from shanghai called shen ting in hong kong to tell her "there is only one communist party. It is not like supermarket outlets where you can go to one after another"

I reflect the displeasure that most chinese, themselves, feel towards the CPC. Chinese, i meet, are proud of their countries' achievements and give the CPC little praise. On forums, you are nationalist and confuse CPC with the nation

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 19:34
by Rony
Itaakat, Welcome to this forum and thanks for your translation efforts !

One of the big drawback in India - China interactions has always been language ! I always wanted to know what the Chinese think about themselves , its culture and history, their govt and its policies (internal and external) their views of "others" including Indians etc etc. But its very difficult to get them because i cant read mandarin and there are very few sites in English which gives a glimpse of china from a Chinese perspective.The only Chinese English sites out there are hawkish sites like Global Times and People's daily (English) which may not reflect the opinion of majority of ordinary Chinese.There are many books and articles written by westerners but it wont give you the full or accurate picture since it is coming from a third party.

I have some interaction with Chinese students who migrated to western countries and their understanding of India, its history and civilization etc are very superficial and sometimes downright false since their sources of information about India is mostly again coming from books and articles written by third party westerners or Chinese translation of those western books. In ancient times, India and China had direct contacts and sources of information.Unfortunately, in modern times , India and China learn about each other mainly through third party western sources.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 13 Nov 2011 19:48
by chaanakya
I don't know if Chinese remember or study what Fa'Hian (4th cent.)and Huen Tsang (7th Cent.) travelers/pilgrims had to tell about India and the lessons they took to their country China. However, I think State /CPC/PLA has suppressed knowledge to such an extent that meaningful exchange would not happen. Anything beyond partyline would invite reprisals for ordinary chinese. That is why their history is showcased in The Wall , so symbolic of their current thinking processes. All other modern achievements are nothing but copy cat.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 02:49
by AdityaM
Jimi wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Jimi, my boy
too much Monsodium Glutamate in your food. cut it down, my son.

It is "mono-sodium", you illiter..., well never mind.


Jolly good that u know your spellings! now read the remaining message as well.

Re: Chinese spoke highly of Indian Dharavi slums

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 11:08
by member_20021
chaanakya wrote:If you are Chinese please state and we can communicate properly.

Yes, I am a doctoral student of Chinese origin in the States.

Kanson wrote:I'm not interested in any foreigner's view on China. My question is straight. What are Chinese views on their culture? Or What do they want to call as their culture?

It turned out that what I promised to you, to share with you my thoughts on Chinese culture, is not something easy to be accomplished. The problem is, yes, language. I learnt all my history and political courses in the Chinese language, and as a result, I am not confident that my English translation is good enough to cover such a complex topic. To avoid misunderstanding, I have to pass this one. Sorry about this.

Following the link provided by ltaakat in the opening post, I paid a visit to the website showing Indian inner cities on the EasyNet in China (the link is still valid). To my great surprise, currently there are 110,584 comments already for the picture story, so I spent quite some time there to find out what all is about. My finding is the following. One of the major points in discussion focused on whether the pictures are truly representative of Indian cities, ie how prevalent the problem is. As some comments pointed out, the media can make up sensational stories to attract click counts. The second hot debated topic regarded the perceived “dis-connection” between the visual contents of the pictures and the captions. The captions, as I read, appeared to tell the readers that people are living there with dignity, and are content with what they have. It was also told that the Indian government has done a great job by providing and heavily subsidizing running water and electricity to the inner city dwellers. But the readers were split almost 50-50. While some agreed with the story teller, the others believed that people cannot have any dignity living under the condition as shown, and the story reflected poor management and governance on the government part. Personally I have never been to India; yes, I read reporting about India on US papers, but what I know does not give me enough confidence to comment. As at least some of you guys should be living in Indian cities, can you please tell the Chinese readers which version of the above is more close to the truth, or all are wrong? I will not be able to translate your comments as ltaakat did, on the one-by-one basis, because I am poor in terms of time (and money) as almost all graduating Ph.D students. However, I think I can put together a summary and post it on the Chinese site. Of course your contribution will be acknowledged in the post. I believe your efforts will be appreciated by the concerned people in China who would love to learn about the true India seen through the eyes of genuine Indians.

Re: Chinese spoke highly of Indian Dharavi slums

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 11:23
by chaanakya
Jimi wrote:
chaanakya wrote:If you are Chinese please state and we can communicate properly.

Yes, I am a doctoral student of Chinese origin in the States. .

Welcome. I think now it is easy to communicate with you on various issues. I hope you would use dispassionate language to drive our discourse. TIA.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 14:44
by shankara
Unnecessarily provocative and racist post deleted, especially one in response to a sane request.

JE Menon

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 19:11
by member_20021
shankara wrote:Unnecessarily provocative and racist post deleted, especially one in response to a sane request.

JE Menon


Can you provide me the link(s) to the pictures you showed before? I would like to learn more about them. Shame on me if I had that toilet in my house; however, bet you that quite a few would be like that in China. For those in China who have dirty toilets, face the problem, and do something.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 19:30
by member_20187
New replies from China under translating, just wait for the job done, Cheers.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 19:36
by chaanakya
ltaakat wrote:New replies from China under translating, just wait for the job done, Cheers.

Itaakat, I must say you have taken a difficult job. My best wishes.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 20:04
by JE Menon
Jimi,

No, reposting of such photos will not be permitted on this forum. No doubt there exist dirty toilets, severe pollution and ugly living conditions in China. They are there in India too. A comparison fest to show whose is worse is meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion. Both China and India have vast numbers of poor and a lot to achieve. The discussion must transcend such ridiculous tit-for-tat poverty p0rn0graphy.

shankara, who appears to be a new member, will have to demonstrate through responsible posts that he can contribute to the discussion and that he is not an agent provocateur, who may simply have assumed an Indian name for this purpose.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 22:07
by Altair
40.452107,93.742118
Please check these coordinates.
What is that?

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 23:42
by AdityaM
Altair wrote:40.452107,93.742118
Please check these coordinates.
What is that?


More nearby: 40.466931,93.379669

Added Later: 40.491283,93.51099
and whats is this, the small blue square to the left? a bombing range, considering the pockmarks on the surface

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 23:45
by Altair
AdityaM wrote:
Altair wrote:40.452107,93.742118
Please check these coordinates.
What is that?


More nearby: 40.466931,93.379669
and whats is this, the small blue square? a bombing range, considering the pockmarks on the surface


Holy Molly! What is that!

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 23:45
by Lisa
Correct thread?

Bizarre structures in the desert in China discovered on Google Maps

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... -Maps.html

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 14 Nov 2011 23:57
by Altair
Lisa wrote:Correct thread?

Bizarre structures in the desert in China discovered on Google Maps

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... -Maps.html


I think there is nothing on ground. Its the google earth playing tricks. zoom in and watch carefully..

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 00:00
by AdityaM

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 00:07
by Altair
AdityaM wrote:check my added later co-ords above

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... esert.html

Yeah Aditya
I checked it is very strange indeed. I dont think the design actually exists on ground.It could be some kind of watermark.However, If it exists it must be investigated as it appears to be a Mock city and they are building or training for something.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 01:12
by Agnimitra
^^^

Here's a report on some of the strange construction and modelling activity going on in the Chinese desert:

Huge Scale Model of Disputed Border Region of China Found in Google Earth

Apparently is it a 1:20 scale model of a region of the India-China border region!

Seen in Google Earth the huge scale model is .9 km tall by .7 km wide. It is adjacent to what looks like a military base with many camouflaged vehicles. Last week, the same poster found the location the scale model represents - a region occupied by China but claimed by India near north central India.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 01:16
by Agnimitra
Here's more - this one has some interesting satellite pictures:
Why Is China Building These Gigantic Structures In the Middle of the Desert? (Update 2)
It's located in Dunhuang, Jiuquan, Gansu, north of the Shule River, which crosses the Tibetan Plateau to the west into the Kumtag Desert. It covers an area approximately one mile long by more than 3,000 feet wide.

The tracks are perfectly executed, and they seem to be designed to be seen from orbit.

The second structure seems to be some kind of giant targeting grid, also north of the Shule river.

If you zoom in, you can see vehicles destroyed. It's west of what seems to be a fairly big electrical station or a radio station similar to HAARP, the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program located near Gakona, Alaska, and funded by the US Air Force, the US Navy, the University of Alaska, and DARPA.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 05:13
by harbans
That's a scale model of the Aksai Chin area the Chinese Army have developed for training. Been known for a long time. The latter pics nothing clear, maybe road networks of some city.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 08:45
by member_20021
harbans wrote:That's a scale model of the Aksai Chin area the Chinese Army have developed for training. Been known for a long time. The latter pics nothing clear, maybe road networks of some city.

I would not be surprised that China is getting started to prepare for the worst scenario in some disputed border areas.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 09:22
by harbans
I would not be surprised that China is getting started to prepare for the worst scenario in some disputed border areas.


What is the worst case scenario from the Indian side on the Indo-Tibetan border you are assuming China will react on?

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 10:08
by member_20021
harbans wrote:
I would not be surprised that China is getting started to prepare for the worst scenario in some disputed border areas.


What is the worst case scenario from the Indian side on the Indo-Tibetan border you are assuming China will react on?


I think that any thing like the "forward policy" that led to the unfortunate 1962 war would definitely be one. Many books are available to discuss the border disputes, by Indian (AG Noorani), westerner (N Maxwell), and Chinese. Some of the books may be banned in India, I heard, but should be available from Amazon or online. In addition, the last time I checked, government documents related to the 1962 war remain classified in India, while the Vietnam war documents have already been declassified by the US government. I will not go further into this topic.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 12:17
by shankara
Jimi wrote:
Can you provide me the link(s) to the pictures you showed before? I would like to learn more about them. Shame on me if I had that toilet in my house; however, bet you that quite a few would be like that in China. For those in China who have dirty toilets, face the problem, and do something.


Jimi,

You can get those pictures through a simple Google search. The point was about the tons of comments on the OP's link to some slum pics from India. In social fora of most cultures, such posts would be greeted mostly with "so what, there is shitt in our backyard too".

When you asked for "understanding", it implied to me that either you were trolling or even you were not aware of the realities in China.

The bigger message of "understanding" was that the perception of cleanliness can be arbitrary. Someone living in an Indian slum can retch at the sight of roasted whole dogs (not the yankee ones) being sold in wheelbarrows. You can google those pictures too. Someone in China eating one the delicacy dog penises of those half burnt cannines might retch at the sight of an Indian slum. The nasty smell of Beijing's air can be so gross for many that an Indian slum might smell like a perfumed garden. So on.

Oh, just so that you know Jimi, there are many in India who choose to live in slums. Many own apartments that they rent out, and prefer to live in the slums themselves. Many Indians give away or discard their belongings and choose a nomadic spiritual life. Buddha himself was one such. Many Indians just hang around those ghats in the pictures waiting for death to arrive. There is a particular philosophy of life many Indians follow that a lot of other cultures cannot comprehend. But whatever be it, they are not harming others or the world. But China and Pakis....

Well, JEM is right. That was perhaps an inappropriate one for an early post on the forum. Sorry. Back to lurk mode.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 14:56
by rohitvats
Jimi wrote: I think that any thing like the "forward policy" that led to the unfortunate 1962 war would definitely be one. Many books are available to discuss the border disputes, by Indian (AG Noorani), westerner (N Maxwell), and Chinese. Some of the books may be banned in India, I heard, but should be available from Amazon or online. In addition, the last time I checked, government documents related to the 1962 war remain classified in India, while the Vietnam war documents have already been declassified by the US government. I will not go further into this topic.


Hmmm....interesting that you should mention the book by AG Noorani. I guess you've read it to bring the name for discussion. Which is interesting because the book came out sometime this year itself. Kind of shows, actually blows apart, what your "agenda" is with respect to this thread. For a AG Noorani, I can give you book by HN Kaul (serach for him). Though, it is a different matter that AG Noorani takes a legal and not a historical view on the topic.

And as for Forward Policy - hoonly thing we did wrong was to send out the IA in penny pockets and not strengthen them as per the requirement. Otherwise, we would have kicked some more Chinese posteriors.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 15:21
by harbans
I think that any thing like the "forward policy" that led to the unfortunate 1962 war would definitely be one.


India never had a forward policy for centuries with Tibet. It didn't need one. Tibet and India got along just well. We didn't even feel the need to take physical guardianship of the Kailash Mansarover region for that matter when Tibetans were on their own. (It's one of Hinduisms most holy sites and the Holiest for Shiv Bhakts that number hundreds of millions in India).

The only forward policy we saw in Tibet came from the Han. Not the Indic.

Ask the Tibetans, the natives whose 'Forward policy' they consider hostile. Oh..you won't allow them an opinion. I know.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 20:36
by SSridhar
Extra troops along China border will raise tensions & harm India's interests: PRC
After having done everything to harm India's interests over six decades now, look who is talking.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 20:59
by Vikas
Why are they worried about Indian Interests ?

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 21:20
by harbans
Some interesting google pics from China. First ones are Nuclear testing sites, but they seem pretty much North of Lop Nor.

37°29’04 N/ 91°19’56E……to 37°28’21 N/ 91°22’46 E one gets a few areas one can see shafts and pools. No roads leading anywhere around the vicinity is strange. If you look it up from an altitude of around 15 km many sites can be spotted once the screen clears up.

40°56’ N and 91°00 E one gets pools of water being collected from miles long canals..

That just gave a thought. The grid thing picture could be an initial layout on a smaller scale to mark out pumping ground water into canals. Some of the mystery pics are obvious missile test areas..but the more confusing one's might have a simpler answer. May be i am way off the mark. But just a thought. TIFWIW..

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 15 Nov 2011 23:49
by Agnimitra
China feeds rumor mill with media curbs. Ho hum.
New media laws that ban China's reporters from using unverified information from the Internet are targeted at rapidly spread online "rumors" that Beijing says could destabilize society...
- Yvonne Su

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 16 Nov 2011 00:02
by rohitvats
You know what, for all the deep wisdom and thoughfullness that people on this forum ascribe to China, it is all actually, in hakim sahab speak, sun-tzutiapanty. I mean, what has the chinese received by needling India? The staple visa, presence in POK and associated nonsense. In five years time, it is going to find 8-9 new and additional divisions - on top of existing 8 divisions. Plus, the air component. I mean, if you can actually scare the politicians and babus into action, you must have done something really-really bad. So much for foresight!!!

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 16 Nov 2011 00:32
by vishvak
Jimi wrote:
harbans wrote:What is the worst case scenario from the Indian side on the Indo-Tibetan border you are assuming China will react on?


I think that any thing like the "forward policy" that led to the unfortunate 1962 war would definitely be one. Many books are available to discuss the border disputes, by Indian (AG Noorani), westerner (N Maxwell), and Chinese. Some of the books may be banned in India, I heard, but should be available from Amazon or online. In addition, the last time I checked, government documents related to the 1962 war remain classified in India, while the Vietnam war documents have already been declassified by the US government. I will not go further into this topic.

In 1962, the Chinese also said "Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" meaning Indians and Chinese are brothers. This is not hidden too. The same brothers than were killed immediately on the borders. So also claiming Indian lands as Chinese, when even Tibetans want freedom from China. This is also not hidden. Currently Chinese troops are present in Indian state J&K, which is also breaking Indian and International laws, besides dis-reputing friendship.

Also, threatening Indian vessels in international waters, and so on and on.

Also proliferating nuclear weapons & long-range (>300km) missiles is clearly breaking international laws. Regardless of sweet talk later.

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Posted: 16 Nov 2011 03:56
by member_20021
shankara wrote:The bigger message of "understanding" was that the perception of cleanliness can be arbitrary. Someone living in an Indian slum can retch at the sight of roasted whole dogs (not the yankee ones) being sold in wheelbarrows. You can google those pictures too. Someone in China eating one the delicacy dog penises of those half burnt cannines might retch at the sight of an Indian slum. The nasty smell of Beijing's air can be so gross for many that an Indian slum might smell like a perfumed garden. So on.

You gave an interesting perspective on relativeness of cleanliness, and I am sure that there got be some Indians who have been to Beijing and know what you said is wrong or right
shankara wrote: Oh, just so that you know Jimi, there are many in India who choose to live in slums. Many own apartments that they rent out, and prefer to live in the slums themselves. Many Indians give away or discard their belongings and choose a nomadic spiritual life. Buddha himself was one such. Many Indians just hang around those ghats in the pictures waiting for death to arrive. There is a particular philosophy of life many Indians follow that a lot of other cultures cannot comprehend. But whatever be it, they are not harming others or the world. But China and Pakis....

Can I understand what you said is some kind of culture background for the existence of city slum? It actually explains it. If you do not want the Chinese to judge you based on the Indian inner cities, perhaps you understand that it is not fair for you to judge China for not having many city slums.

shankara wrote:Well, JEM is right. That was perhaps an inappropriate one for an early post on the forum. Sorry. Back to lurk mode.
 
Actually I have no problems what so ever with your post showing dirty toilets presumably in China. I understand that the admin has some rules to “rule”, but I was surprised that you were assumed to be an agent provocateur from some foreign country. You proved yourself of being a patriotic, honest, and trustworthy Indian as anyone can be.