India-China News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 12 Nov 2011 03:08

ltaakat wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Itaakat ji,

what is there to debate then? On what basis are you looking for friendship with India? Is there anything substantial to what you offer to India in trust or is it just hot air and a lot of condescending words about our slums?

China needs to sit back and think very hard on its course! Sure it can pursue an aggressive imperialist course as it is doing now, but it is going to collapse in the years ahead like every other imperialist power! Or China can pull back to its traditional borders and consolidate its civilization!

China today has very little to offer the world than either
  1. ravaging of their resources or
  2. flooding their markets with their cheap products or
  3. proliferating nuclear weapons technology to them or
  4. providing armies and militias with an abundance of small arms and ammunition or
  5. offering some cash to prop up some economies, just so that China can exploit them further and make them submissive to Chinese diktat, or
  6. simply taking over their territory as is the case with East Turkestan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Taiwan, etc.

Other than that, can you tell me one thing China has to offer the world?


Hatred has dusted your eyes, so you can not see anything you DO NOT like to see, look at these exclamatory marks and interrogation marks you typed, keep clam mate, this is not gonna work. Things you listed are actually not the things that China contributed to the world, I believe you yourself know it as well, you just trying to provoke me(cannot find a suitable word here, hope you know what I am talking about), I'm not gonna take that, anway, cheers for responding, mate.

So "mate", why don't you lay it out - what is China offering the world? Let's hear it!

What is China offering to the world which is not one step away from benefiting it directly?

Why do you say I hate you? Or I hate the Chinese? There is no hate! Just plain and simple - cold understanding!

Calling objections of others as hate is the first lesson one learns in propaganda! You too are just using that lesson! There is plenty of evidence about what China is offering the world and India! There is no hate to it! It is just plain and simple evidence!

There is no hate in India or in me for the Chinese people. I've had plenty of Chinese friends. However that has got nothing to do with the imperialist juggernaut that China has become! The world will resist!

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 12 Nov 2011 03:28

^^^^^^^
oh man, you are angry.
Let me tell you, I do not think that China lives with a sole intention to make offers to the world. They know they are not the savior for the world. They do not think they speak for a god. They just want to make the best of their life to be happy, and try their best to make their children happy. Bottom line, they want to live in a clean house with a job, have a family, and have their kids fed and educated. And with all the above, perhaps they want their kids to get a medal at the Olympics. The Gold is the best.
Last edited by member_20021 on 12 Nov 2011 04:02, edited 3 times in total.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 12 Nov 2011 03:35

Jimi wrote:^^^^^^^
oh man, you are angry.
Let me tell you, I do not think that China lives with a sole intention to make offers to the world. They know they are not the savior for the world. They do not think they speak for a god. They just want to make the best of their life to be happy. and try their best to make their children happy.

Yes their children will be mighty happy if they walk into Tibet, and then Baltistan and then Arunachal Pradesh! All that is to make their children happy! Their children are today all smiling because they gave Pakistan the nukes, right!

Do they give their children some globes and ask them, where do you want the next PRC flag to be planted?

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4322
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 12 Nov 2011 03:45

All I can say is, fascinating pisko case study wanlee.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21175
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 12 Nov 2011 03:57

To administer the dose of reality of PRC shenanigans toward India and other states , Japani, SOKOs, Vietnamese, Indonesian , Tibettan , Uiger and Mongolian people need strategic alliance like PRC and Pakistan and help each other in defending themselves with Strategic weapons. Taiwanese too can join the defensive understanding with full strategic aceess. Indians should be in a comfortable position to supply or keep few hundred strategic weapons in many friendly Asian states. PRC do enjoy lead of few years on us but nothing so great which cant be surpassed by India as She has done historically with few intervals.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 12 Nov 2011 04:16

Prem wrote:Indians should be in a comfortable position to supply or keep few hundred strategic weapons in many friendly Asian states.

Just do it. I do not think China would be a lot more worried than other countries.

Prem wrote:PRC do enjoy lead of few years on us but nothing so great which cant be surpassed by India as She has done historically with few intervals.

Great, looking forward to it. Your gods bless you. Pray harder.
Last edited by member_20021 on 12 Nov 2011 07:57, edited 1 time in total.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 12 Nov 2011 04:28

The world has only three demands of China!

a) Peace

b) Respect

c) Fairness

The Chinese cannot cater to any of these minimum requirements! So the trains are all set to crash!

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21175
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 12 Nov 2011 04:28

Jimi wrote:
Prem wrote:PRC do enjoy lead of few years on us but nothing so great which cant be surpassed by India as She has done historically with few intervals.

Great, looking forward to it. Your gods bless you.


We dont need to disturb the gods, we have the intellect, imagination and information. The matter is very much in human knowledge domain and we will do it on our time and choosing as there are no other countries in both Indo Pacific and Indian ocean beside the ones mentioned above. Enjoy the few years of lead while it last and my sincere hope much touted ancient Chinese widsom might make a come back to wisen its own people and their leaders.
Last edited by Prem on 12 Nov 2011 08:56, edited 1 time in total.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9265
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 12 Nov 2011 08:32

Things have elevated themselves on this dhaga from pisko match to pissing match mighty fast, I see. LOL.

Anyways, as long as Indian interests are not threatened, why should India care about what PRC does to its own citizens? However, by passing nukes to Pak, PRC crossed a rubicon. Consequences will follow. Pak and PRC truly deserve each other. By deliberately crossing the N-threshold against India, PRC made the mistake of its life. If ever, mad-dog pak is foolish enough to let loose chini nukes on India, PRC itself will be on notice to receive suitcases full of N-bums from assorted non-state actors on a regular basis for decades to come. Or so I hope.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 12 Nov 2011 12:43

ltaakat wrote:
People are willing to believe the things they like to believe, even there is no proof to that. There are numerous political issues included in China's foreign policies. It is hard for me to judge it, cuz I don't like to comment on things that I have not enough knowlegde.
However, you can take the US as an example, when they achieved independence in 1776, how many countries in the world like to be its friends? Enermies are surrounding America. But now, you can see what has changed. So it is meaningless to discuss inter-country relationship, benefit determines everything. You can be my friend today, He can be her enemy tomorrow, vice versa.


No proof, really... And you say there are numerous issues in China's foreign policies and its hard for you to judge it. Dear , please understand that when you intend to talk to citizens of another country /communicate with it/ build bridges that itself squarely falls in the domain of Foreign relations and policies. You will not be judged by your Individual being , as it does not matter, but by the policies of your Countries. And I don't like Chinese Policies unless issues are resolved. The actions of your country and my country should make it clear that trust can not be built without resolving these numerous foreign policies issues.

In fact when China resorts to pin pricks it shows how insecure and insensitive they are to these issues and sincere about friendly relations. And therefore I can't see you as friend and you have yourself said if it is not beneficial to you that country would be your enemy. India considers you in the same light. It is for Pakistan to think of their future in the light of this revelation. What happens to them vis a vis China when Pakis become irrelevant to Chinese designs?

In fact India does not desire friendship on "benefits" basis which serves only one side.

As regards business and commerce, India can have normal relations where our national interest are served.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 20:58

After I tranlated your posters here into Chinese, Here are some comments back from China, just check, and welcome you guys debate with them, please quote what you want to debate. Cheers.

174945180ma:
希望可以被翻译过去吧! 我想对印度兄弟说,你们一直认为我们中国人没有自由没有民主,可这自由和民主要看你们怎么去理解它,你们认为民主自由就是可以投票?游行之类的吗? 我觉得这些权利有没有又能对一个个体有什么影响呢? 只要一个政府可以给他的人民好的生活让人民过上好日子管他是民主政府还是共产政府呢?打个比方就算索马里是民主国家对他的人民又有什么意义呢? 就算在民主大国美国近期发生的华尔街游行不一样有被警察抓的吗? 因为在任何国家任何一个政府都不会给公民绝对的自由,那不是反了吗? 你有投票机会又能怎么样?在美国即使人民选择了一个他们认为好的总统和国家决策权还是在那些利益寡头和军工企业的老总手里,总统也只不过是个傀儡! 给公民投票权也只是给你个好象你能决定国家走向的错觉罢了。 民主对世界所有国家都好吗?为了获得民主政权的来临而敞开环保接受美国的导弹的话我宁愿不要 我不想看到中国人的鲜血换来的民主!
Hope this could be translated to the Indian forum.
I’d like to say something to Indian bros. You always considered we Chinese have some no freedom and democracy; however, it depends on how you understand them. Actually what is the meaning of freedom and democracy? What do you think? Are they just the rights to vote, to parade? But I don’t think these rights can actually influence our life, especially influence every independent person. If a government can offer its people good life, who cares it is democratic government or communist government? For example, Somalia is a democratic government, but what else does it mean to its people? They are still suffering. Even the parades in US can be treated as a threat, see the Wall Street please; policemen are fighting with its people! That is because no country in the world can achieve the real freedom, that is definitely impossible. You have the chance to vote, it’s fine, and so what ? In the US, even people choose a president they considered better, the policies decision-making power is still grasped by the big financial families and bankers. Even the president himself is a puppet! The voting right is just an illusion, which makes you believe you can determine the direction of the policies. Is democracy good for all the countries in the world ? IF the price of democracy is the missiles from US, I’d rather let the democracy get away from me, I will never want to have democracy which exchanged by Chinese people’s blood!

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 21:19

daimutou:

说实在话吧,在中国只要不扯到体制上,什么言论自由都和世界同步的
欧美论坛也删除用户留言好不好
三哥老拿这个玩意鄙视中国人是非常无聊的
然后回答三哥们的几个问题
一:为啥老说中国打压印度,扯淡,中国出了名的软蛋,当然在国内来看,就是这么回事。
二:中国有句俗话叫家家有本难念的经,我们渴望自由,但自由是建立在物质基础上的(清高的人不少,但过日子的还是大多数的)有饭吃,有房住,有妹子可以 玩,鬼才管他谁执政呢,实实在在的东西才叫东西懂吗?当然三哥们是不在乎的,你们要看哪个执政党承诺大,选哪个上台。说穿了,就是比赛吹牛皮
三:至于歧视吗?每个国家都有,白种人高级点,搞个东西叫种族歧视,印度人水平低点,至今徘徊在种姓上面,要说的是这个就别批评中国人了,中国国内都搞地域歧视呢。谁有空鸟你们啊。
四:三哥老说中国怎么样,怎么样的,说实话,中国庞大的网友在国际问题上真的很少会去搭理你们,为啥?你们政治家,媒体,无良记者爱吹牛,爱下空承诺懂 吗?中国也爱吹牛,但中国媒体的吹牛本事和印度媒体一比,简直是渣啊,久而久之,在中国人印象里:未来属于印度,过去起源韩国,现在掌握在国军手里,东亚 三宝(后面2个你们就别管了)
五:印度就和中国友好了,和日本吧,日本人对你们印象很好的,俗话说远交近攻,三哥们好好想想吧,解释太累了
OVER了

To be frankly, if only not talk about the state system in China, we got quite a right of free speech.
Even the forums in EU and US will delete the posters they don’t like.
It is kind of boring that Indians use the freedom of speech to despise Chinese.
Then I’d like to answer some questions from Indians.
1. Why you always talking about China is bully on India, it is totally bullshit, China is famous for its flabbiness, we Chinese don’t think we can bully on you.
2. We desire for freedom, but freedom is based on the material basis(some people are living in a higher level, but most people still need to live in a normal life.) If we got food, we got houses, we got girls, who the hell cares about who’s in charge of the government? Don’t know whether you guys care about it or not.
3. According to the discrimination, it existed in every country, the whites call it racism, you guys call it caste system, even within the China, people from different provinces might discriminate on each other.
4. You always talk about China seems like China is always doing bad things to you. To be honest, some Chinese people considered the Indian medias are very boasting, the impression your media left to us is “the future is yours, always yours.” Well, now you can see what we think about you.
5. Japanese can be another friend of yours, they have good impression on you. Think about it.
OVER.
Last edited by member_20187 on 12 Nov 2011 23:02, edited 1 time in total.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 21:25

Huckson:
TO
Hari Seldon

Am reminded of a series of picture posts by one cutie_bj or something a year ago about her picture-travelogue of Aamchi Yindia.

Don't know how genuine such things are. I'd rather be wary anyway.

I met a Japanese Buddhist monk and his wife, here for a year for his studies. They'd travelled more of India in that 1 year than I've done in the past 10. They knew our epics - the ramayana and the mahabharatam - our major deities in our biggest temples, had named their infant son 'Koga', for Ganga in Japanese. They were so warm, friendly and genuine, was a pleasure to be around them. So yes, such people also exist. But Japan is not China. Its ancient cultural ties with India aren't condemned by the Japanese communist party and banned from popular consciousness. So I can understand the Japanese, the Indonesians, the Thais feeling some vague cultural kinship with us. But the present-day Chinese? Don't think so.


实际上你们自己放弃了佛教,还有中国的佛教和你们“创造”佛教可有很大的不同,我何必和你们谈什么传统呢?
Actually you guys abandoned the Buddhism by yourselves, the Buddhism in China is quite different from the one you “created”, I shouldn’t discuss the tradition with you guys.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 21:34

yy411615106:

我建议羡慕印度贫民窟里的居民的人 你不妨也去当个拾荒者 这样不就做到心灵上的自由了吗 有谁愿意去当拾荒者吗
I suggest the Chinese people who admire the slum dogs in India, you can join them, so you can achieve the freedom of your heart, any one would like to ?

------------------------------------------------------------------
革命接班人:

衣食无虞
没有一条是针对图片和报道发出的评论.......连是和否都没有?
No comment towards the picture and reports? Even the simply true or false?

-------------------------------------------------------------

鬼工水银:

印度人把了解当理解了,有些日本人是了解印度,一如了解中国,但我无法让自己确信日本人是不怀有任何目的了解,相对而言,我们一些去印度旅游的背包客要充满善意得多

Some Indians regarded the knowledge as an understanding; some Japanese indeed have knowledge on India, just like they know China. But I cannot persuade myself they are kind and without any motives. In comparison, some Chinese travellers in India are much friendlier.
Last edited by member_20187 on 12 Nov 2011 23:04, edited 1 time in total.

Christopher Sidor
BRFite
Posts: 1435
Joined: 13 Jul 2010 11:02

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 12 Nov 2011 21:40

^^^^
Whether Democracy is good for one country or whether a country is suitable for one nation is dependent on that country and its citizen. If the chinese are attached to their current ruling dispensation then I wish them all the best. For most of the Indians, democracy is of paramount importance to India. I am leaving out a minority of Indians who wish that India was a single party state (like China) or a military state (like Pakistan/Burma/Turkey/etc), till we have achieved prosperity, a fallacy which I personally abhor. But even this minority believes that after India achieves prosperity, India should become a multi-party and multi-facet democracy.


Coming back to the "illusion" of the voting rights, I have an interesting hypothesis. After the cultural revolution, would the Chinese have voted for Mao if he would ever have stood for election? Once you find the answer to the question, you would also find that this so called "illusion" is not something to be scoffed at. But coming from a country, whose citizens have not tasted this for the past 3 or more generations I can understand your skepticism to this so called "illusion". After all we have a saying "Bandaar kya jana adrak ka swadh". Just a disclaimer, I do not consider the chinese as Bandaar.


And coming back to democracy, it creates a sense of ownership among all the citizens of a country. It is my country. It is my government. You would find Indians posting, our government is so and so (replace so and so with good or bad or corrupt or efficient or ineffective and you will get the picture). Democracy also forces the governance and the governing class to focus on the needs of the people. Yes they sometimes get beholden to vested interests. The mining mafia in India or the Construction companies in India and so on. But this system, due to the feedback loop of democracy, makes the system adaptable and more responsive to the needs of its people. It is not like government of India is tearing down houses, just so that a city can be beautified for some games. Practices and policies which totalitarian systems have would be unthinkable in India. This gives us the right to question the actions of the government in public. This also gives us the right to force the government to do a course correction, see for example the "Jan Lok Pal Bill."

And we have pulled down illegitimate rulers (Indira Gandhi in 1970s), thrown out ineffective rulers (NDA debacle) and corrupt rulers (Rajiv Gandhi & his congress government in late 1980s). When we find that ruling dispensation has not met our needs, we reject it and vote in another one. And our lives improve as a basis of that. Consider the development that happened post the Rajiv Era. Or compare the growth during the NDA rule and post NDA rule.

But like I said previously "Bandaar kya jaana Adrak ka swadh"

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 21:41

红领巾:
这是一个居住在中国内陆普通上班族的回复:
印度人觉得自己现在过得幸福至少还不错 他们喜欢他们的生活
中国人觉得现在不算遭 虽然有不少社会问题 但不影像个人生活 一切都在向积极方面改善 也不错
国家与国家之间的矛盾是不可避免的
作为人民而言 在这儿留言的有谁确实受到过来自中国或者印度带给你的伤害?
我们接受了媒体的新闻 产生了偏见 相互的指责
有时候 彼此什么都不知道 或许就没有敌意了吧
This is a comment from a normal office worker in China:
Indians considered they are living a happy life, it is not bad, at least they like their life.
Chinese also considered they are not bad, although there are social issues exist, they can hardly influence our personal life. Everything is improving positively, it is good .
The conflicts between nations are unavoidable, as we are normal people here, who can say he has suffered the real damage from China or India?
Sometimes, knowing nothing about each other perhaps can reduce our hostility.

member_19648
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_19648 » 12 Nov 2011 21:48

ltaakat wrote:Huckson:
TO
Hari Seldon

Actually you guys abandoned the Buddhism by yourselves, the Buddhism in China is quite different from the one you “created”, I shouldn’t discuss the tradition with you guys.


Huh! That has got to be the biggest joke of the century! China and religion!!! History says that you never had one, and about Buddhism, we might have abandoned it, but not murdered it like you guies. Actually, the Lord never said to follow him or make a religion out of it, its his principles that matter and Indians have always hold on to it to their bosoms, religion just doesn't matter. Don't forget that whatever you have learnt is also Indian teaching!

member_19648
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_19648 » 12 Nov 2011 21:50

ltaakat wrote:红领巾:
这是一个居住在中国内陆普通上班族的回复:
印度人觉得自己现在过得幸福至少还不错 他们喜欢他们的生活
中国人觉得现在不算遭 虽然有不少社会问题 但不影像个人生活 一切都在向积极方面改善 也不错
国家与国家之间的矛盾是不可避免的
作为人民而言 在这儿留言的有谁确实受到过来自中国或者印度带给你的伤害?
我们接受了媒体的新闻 产生了偏见 相互的指责
有时候 彼此什么都不知道 或许就没有敌意了吧
This is a comment from a normal office worker in China:
Indians considered they are living a happy life, it is not bad, at least they like their life.
Chinese also considered they are not bad, although there are social issues exist, they can hardly influence our personal life. Everything is improving positively, it is good .
The conflicts between nations are unavoidable, as we are normal people here, who can say he has suffered the real damage from China or India?
Sometimes, knowing nothing about each other perhaps can reduce our hostility.


Conflict is always available as you always have a choice in life, not to hark innocence when you are having wet dreams of conquering the world. Example: China has boundary disputes with all her neighbors. All! Got my point boy!

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 22:02

From now on, I am not going to answer any poster, I will only do what a translator should do, if you have questions, or like to debate something with Chinese people, just post here, I will translate all of them to Chinese website, and maybe you'll get response from Chinese people.
Thank you all again for the comments! :)
Last edited by member_20187 on 12 Nov 2011 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Agnimitra » 12 Nov 2011 22:12

ltaakat wrote:From now on, I am not going to answer any poster, I will only do what a translator should do, if you have questions, of like to debate something with Chinese people, just post here, I will translate all of them to Chinese website, and maybe you'll get response from Chinese people.
Thank you all again for the comments! :)

Itaakat, you promised to write about the similarities and differences you feel living in the UK versus PRC! :)
Thank you again for your efforts!

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 12 Nov 2011 22:22

Time to change name of this thread.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 12 Nov 2011 22:29

Carl wrote:
ltaakat wrote:From now on, I am not going to answer any poster, I will only do what a translator should do, if you have questions, of like to debate something with Chinese people, just post here, I will translate all of them to Chinese website, and maybe you'll get response from Chinese people.
Thank you all again for the comments! :)

Itaakat, you promised to write about the similarities and differences you feel living in the UK versus PRC! :)
Thank you again for your efforts!


Well this is what I promised, so I will write it for you, I will try to make it simple and easy to understand.
The life between two countries are very different, but I believe it is because of the different cultures.
So far, things that I felt which UK did better than China are:
1. Better educational system, forcus more on capability building.
2. Better social benefits, eg. free medical security. However, due to the population in China, it seems quite difficult to achieve.
3. Cheaper cars and houses, but maybe the tax is higher than China.
4. More flexible children policies, however, considering our poor earth, I still believe China has the responsibility to keep the one-child policy.
5. Things in supermarkets might have better quality. People don't need to cut meat by themselves, cuz it has been cutted, this is my favourite part.
6. Fresh air and clear sky, I love this most.

Besides, I hate English food, god damn it, why they tasted so terrible.

Comparing the normal life between two countries, I think it is approximately the same, people's earning are similiar in their own living level. Things British people can afford, most Chinese people can afford as well. People all living their happy life, I think this is the most important point.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby arun » 12 Nov 2011 22:47

Michael Schuman writing in TIME puts his money on India rather than on P.R.China:

The Case for India: Free to Succeed

By Michael Schuman Thursday, Nov. 10, 2011

If I have to endure another corporate executive blindly praising China and reflexively trashing India, I might actually gag. …………………………………….


So don't be fooled by Shanghai skyscrapers and Beijing propaganda, or misled by the chaos of Mumbai's streets and India's tendency for self-deprecation. China's state may give it an edge today. But India's private economy will give it the edge tomorrow.


Read more:
TIME

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 01:51

ltaakat wrote:Huckson:
实际上你们自己放弃了佛教,还有中国的佛教和你们“创造”佛教可有很大的不同,我何必和你们谈什么传统呢?
Actually you guys abandoned the Buddhism by yourselves, the Buddhism in China is quite different from the one you “created”, I shouldn’t discuss the tradition with you guys.


其实佛教算是印度教的进化,就像人类是从类人猿进化而来差不多。
Well, it is more like the Buddhism evolved from Hinduism. It is just like that humans are evolved from a monkey-like creature. More importantly, Buddhism has never been, on the most part, the mainstream of the Chinese civilization, and has never been, and will not be the driving force in any modern progressive civilization.

Ivanev wrote:Conflict is always available as you always have a choice in life, not to hark innocence when you are having wet dreams of conquering the world. Example: China has boundary disputes with all her neighbors. All! Got my point boy!


This is blatant disinformation. The fact is, China has settled all the disputes with all the land-bordering countries (including Russia, Vietnam and the Western Asian Stans, with a couple of un-demarcated but peaceful pockets between China and Bhutan, which has not established diplomatic relation with China), except India. If you press to exaggerate the number of countries having land border disputes with China, feel free to add the Kingdom of Sikkim to the list.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/ ... bhutan.htm
Last edited by member_20021 on 13 Nov 2011 02:29, edited 2 times in total.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 13 Nov 2011 01:57

lr561:

希望这种交流能持续下去,能和别国网友交流是一种很大的乐趣,不同国家思维之间的碰撞让我们更加直接的互相了解,而不是通过媒体得到的片面了解,印度是个 伟大的国家,我很感兴趣,也许我们不应该只局限于此贴,生活、娱乐、政治话题都可以展开讨论!另外我想看看印度网友对于印度时报的看法,上面关于中国的新 闻似乎都是充满偏见和片面的!

I hope this kind of communication can be sustainable, it is interesting that communicating with people from other nations, it can help us understand more about the different thoughts of different countries, but not simply get the information from media one-sided. India is a great country, I am interested in India, maybe we should discuss more, life, entertainment, political issues all can be our topics! In addition, I want to know what do Indian people think about TOI, the news about China on it seems quite biased and one-sided.

member_20187
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 49
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20187 » 13 Nov 2011 01:58

飘的日子:

首先还是得感谢翻译们的努力工作,工作量真的挺大的。

其次我感觉,其实我们一说印度就嘲笑人家的民主制度,跟人家动不动就嘲笑咱们共产国家,也没啥区别,都觉得对方比自己黑,其实自己也问题一大堆。真正的大 国国民胸怀应该是看出对方的优点,矫正自身的缺点才对,一味的嘲笑啊嘲笑啊其实挺没意思的。网易的赞美虽然有点过了,可是从贫民阶层的角度去反思我们的弱 势阶层的保护不够,角度是对的,弄不懂咱们自己人先嘲笑一番为啥,好吧,我知道我的发言不合气氛。但我始终认为遇到问题,矫正自己是第一要做的。


最后如果我的翻译能有幸被翻译过去的话,下边是我想对印度网友说的。

1.这篇网易的报道明明是中国网络在赞美印度的贫民窟的保护措施很好,为什么印度人自己反倒以为中国网友在跟他们搞照片战?想太多了吧,译者明明已经说了是为了交流,大家坐下来好好交流不行吗?非扯意识形态。

2.如果你对你的邻居整天吐口水,你的邻居总有一天会变成你的敌人的,这对双方没好处,从有几个印度网友的留言中,你可以看到他们对中国有成见,在对对方 没有任何了解之前,他们对中国的定义已经是敌人了,这样谈何沟通呢?中国网友虽然有的时候也会嘲笑,但是一般也都认为抛开民族角度,双方应该尽力沟通的对 吧。
3.从国家来讲,国家关系是个双方彼此对抗的过程,印度人大多对中国支持巴基斯坦愤愤不平,觉得中国要跟印度成为朋友就得跟巴基斯坦断绝关系,这种想法是 很可笑的,因为这个世界并不是只有印度一个国家,多国并存就是需要广交朋友,而且中印不是同盟 国,所以没有必须怎么样的义务。而且印度早在中国建国时期就 煽动分裂,挑拨周边小国跟中国的关系,远在中巴 建交 之前,这些印度网民都选择性的无视了,当他们习惯性的说中国是不可信的之前,是否想过同样的事情印度也 做而且做的更多呢?

4.关于印度和日本文化纽带的言论有点扯,谁都知道日本的佛教是经古代中国传过去的,因为传统日本文化很大部分都是古代中国文化的延伸,况且都已经现代社 会了,连印度自己都没有多少佛教徒的情况下,去单方面的责备中国放弃了佛教放弃了与印度的文化联系,是挺可笑的,现在是科学治国而不是宗教治国。

况且,其实中国人去印度旅游然后回中国介绍印度文化的也挺多的,不信请看天涯论坛,到处都是印度游记和介绍印度风情的文章,只不过这个印度人Hari Seldon没有遇到这样的中国人,然后他就认为中国没有,而且我觉得印度人对他们的文化感觉挺傲慢的,非要别人每天对你念佛经你才觉得自己受尊重吗?你 并不是世界唯一优秀的文化,各自保留自己的文化体系,见面握个手做个朋友不好吗?


Firstly I want to thank the translators’ effort, it's quite a big job.

Then I think it is not necessary to laugh at Indian democratic system, just like Indian always laugh at our communist country. There is no differences between them, when people laughing at others, they have their own problems as well. A real superpower should know what the advantages the other countries have, and improve its own disadvantages. Keep laughing is meaningless. The pictures from NET EASE is a little bit over the line, but it can be a mirror, tell us what we should improve. I just don’t know why people like to laugh at others. OK, maybe I shouldn’t say these, but I still believe that when facing problems, check ourselves first is the most important thing.

Finally, These are what I want to say to the Indian friends.
1. The report from NET EASE was speaking highly of Indian slums protecting measurements, why Indian people treat it as a provocation? You may misunderstand it; we just want to communicate in a proper way, can we?
2. If you always spitting ptysis to your neighbourhood, one day your neighbours can also be your enemy, it is not good for both sides. According to the previous comments, you seems have some bias on China. You have already defined China as an enemy before you understand him, how can we communicate in this way? Although Chinese people sometimes also like to laugh at others, we should try our best, isn’t it?
3. From the perspective of nations. The relationship of countries is a process of one against another. Most Indian felt angry for China’s supporting Pakistan, they think to be a friend of India must stop the relationship with Pakistan first. This point of view is kinda ridiculous. Because there are so many countries in the world, not only India, which means we should make more friends with other countries. India and China is not an alliance, so we have no duty to tell the other how to do. What’s more, before China and Pakistan established diplomatic relation, India has done some bad things to China, like incited China separating into pieces; fomented conflicts between China and other countries near China. Indian people ignored these facts. Before they say China can’t be trusted, have they thought about that India used to did the same thing?
4. The comments about India and Japanese cultures seems kinda ridiculous, everyone knows the Buddhism in Japan was transferred from China long long ago. The traditional Japanese culture was the expansion of ancient Chinese culture. In addition, it is a modern society now, even India itself doesn’t have many Buddhists. Isn’t that is funny for India to blame China abandoned Buddhism, and abandoned the cultural connection with India?

Today, more and more Chinese people travelled to India and introduced Indian culture back to Chinese people. In one of our biggest forums TIANYA, you can find the travel notes and pictures about India everywhere.

To Hari Seldon, you haven’t met such kind of Chinese, so you think no Chinese can be like this. Sometimes I find Indians are quite arrogant with their cultures. But remember, Indian culture is not the only outstanding culture in the world. Why can’t we just keep our own cultural systems, and be friends?

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 13 Nov 2011 02:07

Jimi wrote:
其实佛教算是印度教的进化,就像人类是从类人猿进化而来差不多。
Well, it is more like the Buddhism evolved from Hinduism. It is just like that humans are evolved from a monkey-like creature. More importantly, Buddhism has never been, on the most part, the mainstream of the Chinese civilization, and has never been, and will not be the driving force in any modern progressive civilization.


The problem is some have evolved beyond monkey but we still find large, very large number of monkeys who have failed to evolve and they have become driving force in "progressive copy cat civilization"

Jimi wrote:

This is blatant disinformation. The fact is, China has settled all the disputes with all the land-bordering countries (including Russia, Vietnam and the Western Asian Stans, with a couple of un-demarcated but peaceful pockets between China and Bhutan, which has not established diplomatic relation with China), except India. If you press it, yes, two countries that China still has land border disputes with, India and the Kingdom of Sikkim.


Either You are lying or are ignorant chinese.

As for Sikkim that you mentioned in passing, China has long recognised it as part of India and the way you put it here further gives rise to the suspicion of your monekyness, as I see them jumping from branch to branch.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 02:08

chaanakya wrote:Time to change name of this thread.


Praise the power of truth and reason.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 02:26

chaanakya wrote:
Jimi wrote:
其实佛教算是印度教的进化,就像人类是从类人猿进化而来差不多。
Well, it is more like the Buddhism evolved from Hinduism. It is just like that humans are evolved from a monkey-like creature. More importantly, Buddhism has never been, on the most part, the mainstream of the Chinese civilization, and has never been, and will not be the driving force in any modern progressive civilization.


The problem is some have evolved beyond monkey but we still find large, very large number of monkeys who have failed to evolve and they have become driving force in "progressive copy cat civilization"

Jimi wrote:

This is blatant disinformation. The fact is, China has settled all the disputes with all the land-bordering countries (including Russia, Vietnam and the Western Asian Stans, with a couple of un-demarcated but peaceful pockets between China and Bhutan, which has not established diplomatic relation with China), except India. If you press it, yes, two countries that China still has land border disputes with, India and the Kingdom of Sikkim.


Either You are lying or are ignorant chinese.

As for Sikkim that you mentioned in passing, China has long recognised it as part of India and the way you put it here further gives rise to the suspicion of your monekyness, as I see them jumping from branch to branch.

Note the correction to the wording on the last paragraph, and added reference for the original post, as follows:

"If you press to exaggerate the number of countries having land border disputes with China, feel free to add the Kingdom of Sikkim to the list.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/ ... bhutan.htm"

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1980
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 13 Nov 2011 03:12

Jimi, my boy
too much Monsodium Glutamate in your food. cut it down, my son.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Agnimitra » 13 Nov 2011 03:29

ltaakat wrote:lr561:

希望这种交流能持续下去,能和别国网友交流是一种很大的乐趣,不同国家思维之间的碰撞让我们更加直接的互相了解,而不是通过媒体得到的片面了解,印度是个 伟大的国家,我很感兴趣,也许我们不应该只局限于此贴,生活、娱乐、政治话题都可以展开讨论!另外我想看看印度网友对于印度时报的看法,上面关于中国的新 闻似乎都是充满偏见和片面的!

I hope this kind of communication can be sustainable, it is interesting that communicating with people from other nations, it can help us understand more about the different thoughts of different countries, but not simply get the information from media one-sided. India is a great country, I am interested in India, maybe we should discuss more, life, entertainment, political issues all can be our topics!

Itaakat, please inform "lr561" and other Chinese friends that at a mass popular level there is no contempt or acrimony in India, as Indians tend to express their patriotism in a rather understated way. BRF's jingoism is an exception. At a popular level, this is how Indians view China:

1. We all grow up watching Hong Kong martial arts movies, and are fans of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Lee, etc. When I was a kid, I thought the sun rises and sets on Bruce Lee's arse. I wanted to be exactly like him when I grew up. Fortunately or unfortunately I found myself growing into a hairy long-nosed bl00dy Indian.. :)

2. Indians also are in awe of the highly disciplined and submissive, obedient culture of China, though sometimes we think its way too much regimentation, mechanical and soul-less. We sometimes feel alarmed by it or at other times make fun of it.

3. Indians on the far left of the political spectrum usually tend to root for the emergence of China, they love it! Please note that BRF is mostly a right-wing Indian forum, so that's why you won't see much of it here. I also tend to be a little right of center, but as you can see there is no personal ill will towards China and Chinese culture. I am fascinated by it, and hope to pick up more of the language. However, I heavily disapprove of the policies (esp foreign policies) of the CPC. Among all things, they don't know what they've done by gifting nukes and WMD to a snake like Pakistan.

4. About 1962, most common Indians feel like China stabbed us in the back after all the talk of Asian solidarity, they feel hurt. Still, there is a lot of awe and respect for the marvelous economic progress China has made, and many of us like the way Chinese political leaders talk tough with the West, while our leaders are usually soft-spoken and diplomatic in our foreign relations.

5. In India we have had Chinese settles for a long time. We even have "China Towns" in some cities. Also, Chinese restaurants are immensely popular, though the food they serve is "Indianized Chinese" food. You should try it and tell us whether its better than the original or not!

Jimi, you need to chill out kiddo. You're making a fool of yourself.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 13 Nov 2011 05:22

Please keep the conversation civil.
And no trolling.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 06:39

AdityaM wrote:Jimi, my boy
too much Monsodium Glutamate in your food. cut it down, my son.

It is "mono-sodium", you illiter..., well never mind.

Carl wrote: Jimi, you need to chill out kiddo. You're making a fool of yourself.

Look, who is talking.

ltaakat wrote: In addition, I want to know what do Indian people think about TOI, the news about China on it seems quite biased and one-sided.

TOI, known by Indians as the Toilet paper, is following suit of Voice of Amarica (VoA) and BBC, whose biased reporting regarding China ruined the trust of Chinese people towards the "freedom of press" in the west. Just like the Indian style demoCrazy ruined the name of democracy. China is still searching the way to develop into a true representative democracy, in which votes and media cannot be bought by interests groups and feudal (read royal) political families, just because of the presence of bad examples not to follow.
Last edited by member_20021 on 13 Nov 2011 07:22, edited 1 time in total.

praksam
BRFite
Posts: 483
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:19

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby praksam » 13 Nov 2011 07:20

If everything is so Hunky-Dory in China then this news item must be false as will be claimed shortly.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Busi ... 1Cb01.html

China's richest keep firm eye on exit door

"Get rich - then get out" is the life message being grasped by China's wealthiest citizens two decades after former leader Deng Xiaoping supposedly declared that "to get rich is glorious".

About 60% of rich Chinese people intend to migrate from China, according to a report jointly released by the Hurun Report, which also publishes an annual China rich list, and the Bank of China.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 07:25

praksam wrote:If everything is so Hunky-Dory in China then this news item must be false as will be claimed shortly.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Busi ... 1Cb01.html

China's richest keep firm eye on exit door

"Get rich - then get out" is the life message being grasped by China's wealthiest citizens two decades after former leader Deng Xiaoping supposedly declared that "to get rich is glorious".

About 60% of rich Chinese people intend to migrate from China, according to a report jointly released by the Hurun Report, which also publishes an annual China rich list, and the Bank of China.

Is this a slap on the face for those who have been saying that China has no freedom of migration? By the way, China has a death sentence in her law code for tax evasion and embezzlement, and the money will be retrieved no matter where the embezzled money is hidden, including swiss banks.
Last edited by member_20021 on 13 Nov 2011 07:34, edited 1 time in total.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Nov 2011 07:32

Jimi wrote:
praksam wrote:If everything is so Hunky-Dory in China then this news item must be false as will be claimed shortly.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Busi ... 1Cb01.html

China's richest keep firm eye on exit door


Is this a slap on the face for those who have been saying that China has no freedom of free migration?


You da man Jimi. I am reminded of the story of the gang rape of an unmarried Chinese woman who was reputed to be homosexual. After the rape the police said "See - this is a slap on the face of those who claimed that she was gay"

The triumphalist logic bowls me over even as I rub my smarting cheek at this slap.

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 07:36

shiv wrote:You da man Jimi. I am reminded of the story of the gang rape of an unmarried Chinese woman who was reputed to be homosexual. After the rape the police said "See - this is a slap on the face of those who claimed that she was gay"

The triumphalist logic bowls me over even as I rub my smarting cheek at this slap.


Is your source the toilet paper? no wonder, filth in filth out. Enjoy. Bye.

BajKhedawal
BRFite
Posts: 1191
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 10:08
Location: Is it ethical? No! Is it Pakistani? Yes!

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby BajKhedawal » 13 Nov 2011 08:17

A decade or two ago it was compulsory for overseas chinese to gather information about anyone that they come in contact with.

Today, I think its made mandatory for all overseas chinese to take pictures whenever, wherever, and of whatever they can. Yesterday at my university basketball game there was this chinese guy with wife and a toddler in tow, taking pictures of everything but the game & his "family": pictures of visiting local school steel band, picture of the ticket booth, of cheer leader's, of dance team, audience, the facility, the live ABC TV crew team, you get the gist of it..

A few months ago at a powwow a bunch of chinese were snapping away randomly at assorted red indians and their ponies, children, the dhimmieish white audience, red indian food, red indian store owners, their merchandise, etc...., and none of them had a handy point & shoot tourists usually carry.

At every horse show I go to, there are always a few chinese spectators clicking away at the riders, their horses, their trailers, trucks, audience, etc. Even the family of exhibitors had puny little point & shoots but chinese had their long lenses and monopods attached, and worked in pairs.

At all of this events I noticed they use cross cultural barriers as an excuse to get in your face kind of pictures, take picture first apologize later.

As a photographer myself, I know the intent that someone else is shooting with. At all events that I have attended it is invariably the chinese spectators that carry the dslr's with tele lenses and with a intent to click rather than enjoy the show.

First we had Phoonk Sundriji and now Itaakat ji, photos are taken simply for online propagandu purpose onlee. They have an army of everything, army of photographers, army of farmers, army of phd students, seldom a lone wolf.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Nov 2011 08:37

Jimi wrote:
shiv wrote:You da man Jimi. I am reminded of the story of the gang rape of an unmarried Chinese woman who was reputed to be homosexual. After the rape the police said "See - this is a slap on the face of those who claimed that she was gay"

The triumphalist logic bowls me over even as I rub my smarting cheek at this slap.


Is your source the toilet paper? no wonder, filth in filth out. Enjoy. Bye.

Thanks for your wishes. I enjoyed your Sun-Tzutiyapanti. If you need Indians to be toilet cleaners in the other places that you deposit your China made crap, just leave a message here. 8)

member_20021
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 63
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20021 » 13 Nov 2011 09:01

shiv wrote:Thanks for your wishes. I enjoyed your Sun-Tzutiyapanti. If you need Indians to be toilet cleaners in the other places that you deposit your China made crap, just leave a message here. 8)


Well, you deserved every bit. Your Jingshenbing is not bad either, which is far more entertaining than being a chutiyapanti. Well, toilet cleaner, no. Garbage picker, maybe. You know why. As you have a big family to raise, a security guard is more fitting. Regards, bye.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests