Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

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RSoami
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RSoami » 14 Dec 2011 13:25

RajeshAji
Pashtoons are too divided, too radicalised and too stupid to ever attempt the creation of Pashtoonistan.This `create Pashtoonistan` idea has been doing the rounds for half a century now and that almost brought us to the Taliban control of Afghanistan.The idiots are destined only to be used to kill and get killed.
You said that a northern alliance wall will turn them against the Pakhanas.What i am saying is that the Northern alliance should not just have a shield but also a spear.They should hit the Pashtoons so that they go running to Pakjab destabilising all of Pakistan.In this sense what is happening in Karachi is ominous.
Even if it does not destabilise pakistan, it will keep both the Taliban and Pakistan occupied in south Afghanistan.
Sittting at home, giving nice candy aid and dreaming is not going to create Pashtoonistan.If pakis can use Pashtoons to hit the Tajiks and Hazaras, I say we use them to hit the Pashtoons and destabilise whole of Pak.If not for anything else they deserve it for plane hijacking, pre 1800 acts and for being absolute idiots.
A change in strategy away from an oversung Pashtoonistan is needed.
Regards.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RajeshA » 14 Dec 2011 13:41

RSoami ji,

what makes you think that the Northern Alliance would allow themselves to be used as a spear? Is there any evidence in history, especially recent history which makes one believe so? They would fight only to secure their lands and Kabul. No more!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Sanku » 14 Dec 2011 14:12

I am with RajeshA-ji -- I want to see Pushtun's form an extremely Talibanized state which they do at cost of WestPhalian Pakis.

That will be the beginning of the end.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RSoami » 14 Dec 2011 14:14

The warring warlords. Lure of easy spoils.
Afghanistan is still in 17th century. Whether or not they allow themselves to be `used` is not the point.In fact they are not going to be used at all. They only need to do what all warlords do. Kill and be killed.We need to throw our weight behind them rather than giving aid to the Pashtoons.
By the way they have not attacked because they have been on the defensive and aware of their relative weakness.They need to be strengthened and be made aware of their strength.
Thats all.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RSoami » 14 Dec 2011 14:18

I want to see Pushtun's form an extremely Talibanized state which they do at cost of WestPhalian Pakis.


When will that happen and how.
What to do about their low IQ ? !!!

And they almost had this Talibanised state in afghanistan for two years. Did it have a positive influence on us. What are we seeking to achieve. How is an overtly talibanised state different from a covert one like Pakhanstan. Its more likely that Pashtoonistan will be created as a province of enlarged Pakistan with same violent Islamic ideology binding the two if it ever happens.
Too many ifs and buts and wishful thinking..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 14 Dec 2011 14:46

Pranav says:

>>The maimed children are victims of a perverse ideology, and come from families who look to India as a friend. I think that is sufficient reason for sympathy.

In my view this is absolutely correct. Since when have Indians revelled in the murder of anyone, or not empathised with the victims? We know the history of what the advent of Islam, and what the invasion of the vicious Afghan and other warlords and kings did to India. Knowing that, we should of course resolve to destroy this absolute ideology of terror and violence in its entirety (if all Muslims adhere to it in toto) or its malicious strain (if only some Muslims stick to it); the latter is possible, as all ideologies evolve, but so far there is no evident meaningful indication of it.

Having said that, this does not mean Indians of any faith should undermine our own way of looking at the world just because of the extreme violence done to us, or because the violence amongst the Islamic faithful is "well deserved". If it was Taliban on Taliban violence (by this I mean essentially a minor difference of opinion within the Pak military) and there is bloodshed, then we can bring out the snacks. But this was a pure act of terror against people who are living from hand to mouth, mainly children. Knowing the history, and knowing what was done to Hindus in particular, must we still have no sympathy for the victims in this wanton violence?

My personal opinion is that we must have and show sympathy, because that is what differentiates us essentially from those followers of the Islamic faith who actually do revel in it. In dealing with humanimals, we must recognise them for what they are, but we need not exhibit their worst characteristics as we move to destroy them. We must not come to believe what they believe about the world and humanity. We must be discerning and careful in our assessments and judgements. Let us not lose our humanity and our essential Indianness because of the behaviour of the Islamic faithfools.

If we do, they win.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Sanku » 14 Dec 2011 15:00

+1.

Its not easy being Dharmic. If it was only a matter of "we will do unto them what they did unto us" -- we would have the matter settled a long time ago.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 14 Dec 2011 15:05

Indeed...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Atri » 14 Dec 2011 15:06

JE Menon wrote:Pranav says:

>>The maimed children are victims of a perverse ideology, and come from families who look to India as a friend. I think that is sufficient reason for sympathy.

In my view this is absolutely correct. Since when have Indians revelled in the murder of anyone, or not empathised with the victims? We know the history of what the advent of Islam, and what the invasion of the vicious Afghan and other warlords and kings did to India. Knowing that, we should of course resolve to destroy this absolute ideology of terror and violence in its entirety (if all Muslims adhere to it in toto) or its malicious strain (if only some Muslims stick to it); the latter is possible, as all ideologies evolve, but so far there is no evident meaningful indication of it.

Having said that, this does not mean Indians of any faith should undermine our own way of looking at the world just because of the extreme violence done to us, or because the violence amongst the Islamic faithful is "well deserved". If it was Taliban on Taliban violence (by this I mean essentially a minor difference of opinion within the Pak military) and there is bloodshed, then we can bring out the snacks. But this was a pure act of terror against people who are living from hand to mouth, mainly children. Knowing the history, and knowing what was done to Hindus in particular, must we still have no sympathy for the victims in this wanton violence?

My personal opinion is that we must have and show sympathy, because that is what differentiates us essentially from those followers of the Islamic faith who actually do revel in it. In dealing with humanimals, we must recognise them for what they are, but we need not exhibit their worst characteristics in trying to fight them. We must not come to believe what they believe about the world and humanity. We must be discerning and careful in our assessments and judgements. Let us not lose our humanity and our essential Indianness because of the behaviour of the Islamic faithfools.

If we do, they win.


this is one alternative.

in other one, we spawn a section which says "there is no god but parshuraam or rudra" and then it is unleashed and after job is done say that the "avataar kaarya" of this is done and now it is time to have it either liquidated or quelled.. :P

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 14 Dec 2011 15:12

^^Yes, that is feasible too... But I'm not sure the hyper-networked society we live in today can handle such a sophisticated social device; it will be unpalatable, at least in the current dynamic. Things can change of course.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Atri » 14 Dec 2011 15:20

JE Menon wrote:^^Yes, that is feasible too... But I'm not sure the hyper-networked society we live in today can handle such a sophisticated social device; it will be unpalatable, at least in the current dynamic. Things can change of course.


of course it will be unpalatable to any dharmik society.. it will be like bitter medicine which needs to be taken. we all know some of the current candidates that are set to evolve into this parshuram panthi people, i will not name them. many of them might sound outright impossible today.. urban educated class (both DIE and NDIE) are usually appalled by little naughtiness they do here and there.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Sanku » 14 Dec 2011 15:46

Atri-ji> Even Parshuram had sympathy. Despite his acts, he is supposed to be un-happy about what he needed to do.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RajeshA » 14 Dec 2011 15:53

RSoami wrote:The warring warlords. Lure of easy spoils.
Afghanistan is still in 17th century. Whether or not they allow themselves to be `used` is not the point.In fact they are not going to be used at all. They only need to do what all warlords do. Kill and be killed.We need to throw our weight behind them rather than giving aid to the Pashtoons.
By the way they have not attacked because they have been on the defensive and aware of their relative weakness.They need to be strengthened and be made aware of their strength.
Thats all.

RSoami ji,

If I may be direct, you are basically trying to do Pakistani Army's work for them. You say the Northern Alliance warlords would keep Pushtuns and Pakistanis (Pakjabis, Pakistani Army) busy in Afghanistan. That is plain wrong!

1) If Pakistanis can keep Taliban and Northern Alliance going at each other's throats, then the Pakis are out of the woods. The Pakis don't need to worry about their Northwestern flank and can focus completely on their eastern flank on India - that would lead to another upsurge in terrorism vs. India.

2) How do you expect the Northern Alliance to be able to put pressure on the Pakjabis with a large swath of Pushtun territory between the Northern Alliance areas and Pakjab. Would they be attacking GHQ and then sneaking back 100s of miles back into their own territory?

Throughout the 90s, the Pakis controlled their Northwest. They had the Pushtuns busy with their Taliban project of domination of Afghanistan, while the Pakis were turning up the heat on India in Kashmir. That is exactly what will happen again if the Pushtuns are forced into the arms of the Pakistanis.

You have been making disparaging remarks about the low IQ of Pushtuns and how they are stupid, and basing your strategy on something like that. This sounds very much like how Ayub Khan was selling his 1965 War based on the strategy that one Pakistani Jawan is equal to ten Hindu soldiers. It is needless rhetoric.

I am sure that not all Pushtun may have caught on to the games Pakis have been playing with them, but many have, and even those who have not are still quite aware of their national interests. There is no dearth of strategic insight in them. The problem is always that some of them have been compromised while others may have honest difference of opinion on how to proceed. This happens with everybody.

Nor do assumptions about them being warlords out to kill and be killed make us any wiser in our search for a suitable strategy. Whatever dynamic is playing out in Afghanistan with its warlords has its own rationale and drivers. Just because we don't always understand it, does not make it fully arbitrary.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RSoami » 14 Dec 2011 17:06

Throughout the 90s, the Pakis controlled their Northwest. They had the Pushtuns busy with their Taliban project of domination of Afghanistan, while the Pakis were turning up the heat on India in Kashmir. That is exactly what will happen again if the Pushtuns are forced into the arms of the Pakistanis.


Using the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and kashmiris in Kashmir is part of one project. To think that Pashtoons were only kept busy so that Pakistanis can `turn up the heat` in Kashmir is plain wrong.The Taliban would not have taken control of Afghanistan if Pashtoons were just being kept busy.
The ISI and Pakjabi army have been trying to achieve the same thing in Kashmir and in Afghanistan.Expansion of influence through territorial or ideological expansion. While we have succeeded in countering their designs in Kashmir, US has done it for us in Afghanistan after 9/11.
We now need to go on the offensive. Northern alliance therefore needs to go on the offensive.Chaos in south Afghanistan is not our problem but as long as the mayhem continues there the pakjabis will have no respite. At the same time we need to go on the offensive too. Covert action in Sindh, Baluchistan and PoK.

You have been making disparaging remarks about the low IQ of Pushtuns and how they are stupid, and basing your strategy on something like that.

Thats not what I have been doing RajeshAji. But perhaps someone can give us some idea of developing nationalism among the Pashtoons. I really have very little idea about Pashtoonistan taking shape or anything being done in that direction.my lack of knowledge onlee. Perhaps we will see Pashtoonistan some time soon after all.
Regards

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RamaY » 14 Dec 2011 18:16

Sanku wrote:Atri-ji> Even Parshuram had sympathy. Despite his acts, he is supposed to be un-happy about what he needed to do.

And he donated all the land to Kasyapa after destroying the Kshatriyas. That is why he became an Avatar. A self-less Dharmic act.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby jrjrao » 14 Dec 2011 18:31

Sigh.

Bill Keller is a heavyweight, being a "former executive editor of The NY Times". And he has been to Pakistan recently, and thus has gotten the royal "Anatol Lieven" treatment of "black tea with milk", "obsequious servants", "eggs Benedict" at "Islamabad’s finest hotel", "the gated enclaves of Islamabad", "the manicured lawns of the military garrison in Peshawar" and the "exclusive apartments of the parliamentary housing blocks".

And so, here is the outcome -- a long friggin' 9 page article in the NY Times magazine today, titled:

The Pakistanis Have a Point

This piece is, as expected, extraordinarily uncritical of the roaches who run Pakistan, namely the Paki army. No mention of the determined efforts over decades by this rogue army to spawn, to fund, to foster and to protect brutal terrorists.

I can summarize the 9 pages in one sentence -- the Paki army is our friend, they want to work with us, and they are good because they are holding fort against "the indigenous jihadists whose aim is nothing less than a takeover of nuclear Pakistan".

Very naive and very stoopid, of course. Arlington and other cemeteries will keep filling with freshly dead American soldiers, while this punk will keep enjoying the company of "a senior Pakistani intelligence official" at "Islamabad’s finest hotel" who arrived for breakfast with "a genial air of command", and "ordered eggs Benedict for the table".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 14 Dec 2011 18:36

I love these chaps like Keller :rotfl:

let's not complain guys. Let a thousand more of these bloom... If they don't succeed in delaying things a little, there won't be enough time for a Pak JDAM to hit US mainland they way things are going... Idiots. It's a miracle he didn't mention the wonderful uniform, and masculine gaze, and the bratwurst evident under the left leg of the starched uniform trouser...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RajeshA » 14 Dec 2011 19:23

RSoami wrote:Using the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and kashmiris in Kashmir is part of one project. To think that Pashtoons were only kept busy so that Pakistanis can `turn up the heat` in Kashmir is plain wrong.The Taliban would not have taken control of Afghanistan if Pashtoons were just being kept busy.

When Pakistan was created, mostly everybody knew that Pakistan is an artificial construct. Some Bengalis, much of the Gangetic Valley Muslim Elite and Pakjabis got together and put it together.

The Pakjabis were the strongest of the believers in Pakistan and they were well represented in the Army. The Mohajirs built the bureaucracy. These were the most invested in the success of Pakistan. Pushtuns, Sindhis, Balochis, Mirpuris, etc. were add ons.

Especially after 1971, Pakjabis became the sole inheritors of Pakistan. It was theirs to lose. Now their challenge was that something like Bangladeshi secession does not happen again.

And the Pushtuns were the only ones who could destroy the Pakistani Army's dominion of Pakistan. So the Pushtun have been integrated into Pakistan:
1) By Islamizing them on mass. The refugees coming into Pakistan from Afghanistan helped. Also Pakistan was portrayed as the bastion of Islam and going against Pakistan was equated with turning against Islam itself.
2) By settling more of them in Karachi. In Karachi, so that the Pakjabis are not unsettled in Pakjab while at the same time it neutralizes the influence of the Mohajirs who too had settled there in Karachi and Hyderabad, but more importantly to give the Pushtun a stake in Pakistan.
3) By keeping the Pushtun involved in wars in Afghanistan, in which they are dependent on help from Pakistan.

The Pushtun have however come out of the first trap. The Pushtun have become so islamized that in comparison all Pakjabis now look like murtads. Their SDRE looks in comparison, their tendency to suck up to the Brits and their tendency to hold on to their Punjabi culture, which is more pronounced on the Indian side, make the Pakjabis definitely look less pious, less green.

The second trap is somewhat more complicated. Either we should support the MQM to push the Pushtun out of Karachi, or one would have to find some other solution - something like Singapore/Hong Kong, a city state solution. Of course speaking out those names makes the possibility all the more attractive even though we know that Karachi would continue to move down the drain.

The third trap is based on the dependency of the Afghan Pushtun expansionism and domination on support from the Pakistanis. There if one can ensure that the Taliban see it as impossible to dominate the non-Pushtun areas of Afghanistan, while they are allowed to dominate the Pushtun areas where ever they can, then one can break this third trap as well. A peace between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban is important in this regard. It is also important that certain Pushtun warlords survive who are not aligned with the Taliban per se. Peace in Afghanistan means tumult in Pakistan. Neither the Afghan Pushtun nor the Pakistani Pushtun would acknowledge the Durand Line and if the Pakistanis try to enforce it, the Pushtun would turn against them. They would also be open to take money from whatever quarters and lash out at any Paki presence in Pushtun areas, including the areas in Pakistan.

This is the direction we ought to move towards. Pushtun are the most feared monster in the region and we should set them up to go and hunt the Pakjabis making the Pakjabis come running into the feet of Bharat Mata.

RSoami wrote:The ISI and Pakjabi army have been trying to achieve the same thing in Kashmir and in Afghanistan.Expansion of influence through territorial or ideological expansion. While we have succeeded in countering their designs in Kashmir, US has done it for us in Afghanistan after 9/11.

The Afghan Pushtun would not accept a Pakjabi face ruling over them. Their expansionism into Afghanistan could only occur by proxy - using Taliban.

RSoami wrote:We now need to go on the offensive. Northern alliance therefore needs to go on the offensive.Chaos in south Afghanistan is not our problem but as long as the mayhem continues there the pakjabis will have no respite. At the same time we need to go on the offensive too. Covert action in Sindh, Baluchistan and PoK.

Chaos in Southern Afghanistan is the exact definition of respite for Pakjabis. They couldn't ask for anything better. It increases their importance as many factions involved in that chaos become dependent on Pakjabis and their military machinery.

RSoami wrote:
RajeshA wrote:You have been making disparaging remarks about the low IQ of Pushtuns and how they are stupid, and basing your strategy on something like that.

Thats not what I have been doing RajeshAji. But perhaps someone can give us some idea of developing nationalism among the Pashtoons. I really have very little idea about Pashtoonistan taking shape or anything being done in that direction.my lack of knowledge onlee. Perhaps we will see Pashtoonistan some time soon after all.
Regards

Lets hope that the Pushtuns rise and break Pakistan setting free its various ethnic groups to search for their own separate destinies. That would end the jinx that has beset India from our country's birth.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby bahdada » 14 Dec 2011 19:36

Keller is just letting air the thinking of a certain of segment of old guard spooks at the CIA. These types of articles are typical for the NYT. Eggs Benedict...lmfao.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Upendra » 14 Dec 2011 19:46

Pakistan 3rd biggest recipients of US aid

WASHINGTON, Dec 12: Despite serious differences over the Afghan conflict, Pakistan will continue to be among the top three recipients of American aid in the US fiscal year 2012 as well, which starts from Oct 1 of a calendar year.

A document released by the US State Department shows that in the budget requests for 2012, Afghanistan tops the list at $3,213.4 million. Israel ranks second, with all of the $3,075 million requested for foreign military financing (FMF).

Pakistan ranks third at $2,965 million, 80 per cent of which is for activities supported by the Economic Support Fund (ESF) and the Pakistan Counter-insurgency Capability Fund-OCO (PCCF).

If funding from the US defence budget was included, Pakistan would rank second for both FY2010 and 2012.

Pakistan received $4,462 million from the defence budget in FY2010, which came down to $2,444 million in FY2011, but increases slightly to $2,965 million in FY2012. Pakistan received a total of $22,087 million from the defence budget between FY2002 and 2010.

Almost 88 per cent of the US aid to South Central Asia in FY2012 is requested for Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The State Department documents note that a combination of security assistance and economic aid designed to limit the appeal of extremist organisations has moved Pakistan up the list in recent years.




Witness turns hostile in sectarian killing case

KARACHI, Dec 13: An eyewitness on Tuesday turned hostile before an anti-terrorism court in a sectarian killing case.

Mohammad Ajmal alias Akram Lahori, the alleged chief of the proscribed Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, and his accomplices, Attaullah alias Qasim and Mohammad Azam alias Sharif, have been charged with killing Syed Jawad Hussain Rizvi and wounding his friend, Zamarud Hussain Jaffari, in DHA in January 2002.

In his previous statement recorded in the court of a judicial magistrate under Section 164 of the criminal procedure code, Mohammad Irshad had deposed against Mohammad Ajmal and Attaullah and also identified them during an identification parade and assigned their roles in the commission of offence.

Appearing before the trial court on Tuesday, the eyewitness testified that he along with his two friends was returning from the Seaview beach when two men riding a motorcycle opened fire on a vehicle.

However, he failed to pick out the alleged attackers he had earlier identified before the magistrate. {suffering from amnesia or threatened by LeJ}

While pointing at the accused present in the courtroom, he deposed that none of them had opened fire.

The public prosecutor requested the court to declare the witness hostile as he had deviated from his previous statement.

Judge Ghulam Mustafa Memon of the ATC-III, who is conducting the trial at a makeshift court inside the Central Prison Karachi due to security concerns, allowed the plea and declared the eyewitness hostile.

The court adjourned the hearing till Dec 24 for further evidence of prosecution witnesses.

According to the prosecution, the accused had opened fire on the vehicle of Mr Rizvi on Jan 29, 2002 in Defence Housing Authority. The attack left him dead and his friend wounded, it said.

The accused were arrested on June 29, 2002 within the remit of the Defence police station in three cases registered under Section 13-D (going armed without licence) of the Pakistan Arms Ordinance, 1965.

The police claimed that the accused during interrogation had confessed to their involvement in a number of secretion killing cases including the present one.

A case (FIR No 52/2002) was registered under Sections 302 (premeditated murder), 324 (attempt to commit premeditated murder) and 34 (common intention) of the Pakistan Penal Code read with Section 7 of the Anti-Terrorism Act, 1997 at the Darakhshan police station.

Warrant out for IO
The same court on Tuesday issued a non-bailable warrant for the arrest of an investigation officer over his absence in another sectarian killing case.

During the last hearing, the judge had directed investigation officer Ghulam Rasool to appear in court and record his statement in the case pertaining to the murder of Irfan Haider within the remit of the North Nazimabad police station in 2002.

Mohammad Ajmal alias Akram Lahori and Attaullah were booked in the case.

The court also adjourned the hearing of three other cases against the same set of accused till Dec 24.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 14 Dec 2011 19:53

jrjrao wrote:
And so, here is the outcome -- a long friggin' 9 page article in the NY Times magazine today, titled:

The Pakistanis Have a Point


Two years ago an article such as this would have both irritated and bored me. Now it only bores. This man has done less reading about Pakistan than most BRF newbies. The business of "jilted" etc that he talks about have an entire book devoted to them in the form of "How Pakhanis negotiate with the US".

http://www.usip.org/questions-and-answers-0
2. The second major influence is Pakistan’s culture. Pakistan’s operating style and expectations are shaped by a society in which the most important bonds are personal, relationships both inside and outside the government are hierarchical and the less powerful often try to turn their weakness into strength.

3. Finally, Pakistan’s negotiations with Americans reflect the structures of their government and political system, notably its divided authority and the outsized role the military has historically played. Taken together, these elements produce an approach in which negotiators cultivate what one might call “the art of the guilt trip.” Important negotiations usually involve a major effort to create a sense of obligation on the part of the United States or to nurture and intensify the fear that failure to honor Pakistan’s requests will lead to disastrous consequences for U.S. interests.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby jrjrao » 14 Dec 2011 19:59

Ever since the news broke 2 days ago that the US House and Senate has started to think about taking the first step to make an initial move to contemplate preliminary procedures to possibly perhaps curtail aid to Pakistan by $700 million, the duffers-and-dumbers have been going ape-crap in delirious joy.

"yeah, f1ck US aid. who needs it. thanks and praise be to Allah. nara-e-takbeer, let us dance and holler loud", is the current mood.

But Reuters today has a slight reality check for the Pakis:

Pakistani rupee hits fresh low as U.S. moves to freeze aid
Dec 14 (Reuters) - The Pakistani rupee hit a fresh record low on Wednesday as import payments climbed and exporters clung tightly on to their dollars as the country's economic outlook darkened.

U.S. lawmakers are ready to freeze up to $700 million in aid to Pakistan until Congress gets assurances that Islamabad is helping fight the spread of homemade bombs in the region, a move which add pressure the country's current account and dwindling reserves.

Pakistan's current account deficit stood at $1.6 billion in July-Oct compared with $541 million in the same period a year earlier.

Islamabad has to start repaying an $8 billion IMF loan in early 2012, and without additional sources of revenue, its foreign exchange reserves may come under pressure, analysts say.

It has to make a large repayment of about more than $1.1 billion in the second half of 2011/12 fiscal year.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RSoami » 14 Dec 2011 20:18

RajeshA ji
Leider kann ich mit Ihnen nicht einverstanden.
:)
Regards
Soami

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Altair » 14 Dec 2011 20:21

NEWS FROM BALUCHISTAN:
Atleast two personnel of Frontier Corps (FC) were killed and five others sustained serious injuries on Wednesday when their vehicle hit a landmine in the Mand Balo area of Balochistan which shares a border with Iran.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RamaY » 14 Dec 2011 20:23

JE Menon wrote:I love these chaps like Keller :rotfl:

let's not complain guys. Let a thousand more of these bloom... If they don't succeed in delaying things a little, there won't be enough time for a Pak JDAM to hit US mainland they way things are going... Idiots. It's a miracle he didn't mention the wonderful uniform, and masculine gaze, and the bratwurst evident under the left leg of the starched uniform trouser...


Tathastu!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RajeshA » 14 Dec 2011 20:28

RSoami ji

Mach nichts! :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Pranay » 14 Dec 2011 23:21

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/magaz ... ml?_r=1&hp

From the Bill Keller article...

“The thing about us,” a Pakistani official told me, “is that we are half emotional and half irrational.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Altair » 14 Dec 2011 23:27

Pranay wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/magazine/bill-keller-pakistan.html?_r=1&hp

From the Bill Keller article...

“The thing about us,” a Pakistani official told me, “is that we are half emotional and half irrational.”


AFAIK, That type of characterization is usually for "Teenagers". If so it must be dealt in such way.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pgbhat » 14 Dec 2011 23:52

Altair wrote:
From the Bill Keller article...

“The thing about us,” a Pakistani official told me, “is that we are half emotional and half irrational.”


AFAIK, That type of characterization is usually for "Teenagers". If so it must be dealt in such way.

Actually more like a emo-psychotic prostitute with father issues. :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Vinod Ji » 15 Dec 2011 00:06

To day's aapas ki baat is discussing democracy, Why in India democracy has taken roots and why in Pakistan it has not!!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby vishvak » 15 Dec 2011 00:08

SSridhar wrote:...the houbara bustards are critically endangered species and yet the hunting goes on year after year in Sind & Balochistan. What does it show ? It shows that the much hyped about sovereignty is lost to the Princes and Princelings of the desert Kingdoms. One doubts if Pakistan has the will to muster courage to ask these royalty to return the ceded territories and stop hunting.
...

Some more about mard pakis who sell license to mard Arab royals for bustards.
A desert chase
...
Sheikh Zayed, the ruler of the UAE, had already been allocated a special licence to hunt in no less than eight districts of Balochistan, four in Sindh and three in Punjab, according to a recent report in Dawn. At least 24 other Arab sheikhs and princes have also been granted hunting licences
...
They eat the houbara’s flesh because they believe it is an aphrodisiac. Massive air-conditioned tent cities spring up in the middle of nowhere. Unbelievable gifts are presented to local elites
...
But little is actually known about what transpires inside the fortress-like palaces and temporary encampments during the couple of weeks that a hunt typically lasts. The fabulously rich and powerful hunting parties float in and out of the country like ghosts, and multiple layers of security keep curious onlookers well away.
...
What was once a test of man’s wits against a fast, tricky prey has been reduced to a technology-driven virtual non-battle. Radar and satellite imaging is used to track down the elusive bustard .. When a bustard is finally spotted, a trained falcon is released.
...
The special hunting licences issued by Pakistan are much coveted and their award can have diplomatic fallouts. President Zardari, close to the UAE royals, has favoured Abu Dhabi and Dubai sheikhs in the award of the permits, much to the displeasure of the Saudis. In 2009, Zardari had to send his sister as a special emissary to Saudi Arabia to smooth over ruffled royal feathers.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Dec 2011 00:26

vishvak wrote:They eat the houbara’s flesh because they believe it is an aphrodisiac. Massive air-conditioned tent cities spring up in the middle of nowhere. Unbelievable gifts are presented to local elites.
[...]
President Zardari, close to the UAE royals, has favoured Abu Dhabi and Dubai sheikhs in the award of the permits, much to the displeasure of the Saudis. In 2009, Zardari had to send his sister as a special emissary to Saudi Arabia to smooth over ruffled royal feathers.

Tsk Tsk. This kind of gesture from the president of the land of honor killings, to the sheikh of the land of the hijaab??

How low can Pakis GUBO? Why is it that Pakis everywhere behave like sidekicks and pimps to their Arab, Turk and Iranian psychological masters?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Altair » 15 Dec 2011 02:18

pgbhat wrote:
Altair wrote:
From the Bill Keller article...

“The thing about us,” a Pakistani official told me, “is that we are half emotional and half irrational.”

AFAIK, That type of characterization is usually for "Teenagers". If so it must be dealt in such way.

Actually more like a emo-psychotic prostitute with father issues. :roll:


In an extreme case you are also right. I am talking on a very basic and general sense.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby ramana » 15 Dec 2011 02:52

You can depend on the Pakis to get to new lows.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Altair » 15 Dec 2011 02:54

The Pakistan army decides to launch a nuke-missile towards India.

They don't need any permission from their government(actually such a thing does not exist in Porkistan), and promptly order the countdowns.

Indian technology is highly advanced.

In less than 8 seconds, Indian army detects the Pak Countdown and decides to launch a missile in retribution.

But they need permission from the Government of India.

They submit their request to the Indian President. The President forwards it to the Cabinet.

The Prime Minister calls an emergency Lok Sabha session. The LS meets, but due to several walkouts and severe protests by the opposition, it gets adjourned and adjourned indefinitely.

The President asks for a quick decision.

In the mean time, the Pak missile failed to take off due to vaccum explosion in missile rear.

Their attempts for a re launch are still on. Just then the Indian ruling party is reduced to a minority because a party that was giving outside support withdraws it.

The President asks the PM to prove his majority within a week.

As the ruling party fails to win the confidence vote, a caretaker government is installed.

The caretaker PM decides to permit the armed forces to launch a nuclear missile.

But the Election Commission says that a caretaker government can not take such a decision because elections are at hand.

A Public Interest Litigation is filed by Swamy in the Supreme Court alleging misuse of power by the Election Commission.

The Supreme Court comes to the rescue of the PM, and says the acting PM is authorized to take this decision in view of the emergency facing the nation.

In the meanwhile one of the Pak missiles successfully took off, but crashes on its own government building at 11.35AM.

Fortunately there were no casualties as no employee had reached the office that early.

In any case, the nuclear core of the missile had detached somewhere in flight.

The Pakistan army is now trying to get better technologies from China and USA.

The Indian Government, taking no chances, decides to launch a nuclear missile of its own, after convening an all-party meeting.

This time all the parties agree.

Its three months since the Pak army had started the nuclear war.

But as Indian preparations begin, "pro-humanity" and "anti-nuclear" WKK activists led my Ms.Roy come out against the Government's decision.

Human chains are formed and Road Rail Blockades are organized.

In California and Washington endless e-mails are sent to Indians to stop the war condemning the Indian government and mentioning "Please forward it to as many Indians as possible".

On the Pakistan side, the missiles keep malfunctioning. Some missiles were actually dummies supplied by China and North Korea and just two missiles actually fly towards Taiwan and Seoul, their original targets!! The software was never updated.

US successfully intercepts the missile and in retaliation launches a nuclear missile towards Islamabad.

The missile hits the target and incinerates Islamabad.

Pakistan condemns the attack.Pakistan burns all empty NATO tankers in protest. Imran Khan warns US of a repeat nuke attack on Islamabad but says he may not object to a similar nuke attack on Karachi.

India expresses deep regrets for what has happened and sends in a million dollars worth of Parle-G biscuit packets and Taj Mahal Tea sachets.

Manmohan Singh invites whoever is left in Islamabad who has even one eye to come watch IPL in Mohali for promoting peace.

Thus India never gets to launch the missile.

Pakistan never gets it right.

And

we live happily ever after

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RCase » 15 Dec 2011 02:59


I protest!!! How come Pakistan was ranked 4th and not 1st? :(( The judges must have been confused with saddest and sadism. Pakis are first in everything - the ideological leader of the ummah, the only nuclear powered Islamic state etc.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Dec 2011 03:44

jrjrao wrote:....

http://www.usip.org/questions-and-answers-0
2. The second major influence is Pakistan’s culture. Pakistan’s operating style and expectations are shaped by a society in which the most important bonds are personal, relationships both inside and outside the government are hierarchical and the less powerful often try to turn their weakness into strength.

3. Finally, Pakistan’s negotiations with Americans reflect the structures of their government and political system, notably its divided authority and the outsized role the military has historically played. Taken together, these elements produce an approach in which negotiators cultivate what one might call “the art of the guilt trip.” Important negotiations usually involve a major effort to create a sense of obligation on the part of the United States or to nurture and intensify the fear that failure to honor Pakistan’s requests will lead to disastrous consequences for U.S. interests.


The comments section of the NYTimes now contains this quote.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Dec 2011 04:28

Probably worth reading.
http://criticalppp.com/archives/66133

In Pakistan economic progress does not automatically translate into liberal progressive modernity mainly due to the nature of the state. Pakistan’s modernity is structured along two axes: neo-liberal nationalism and right-wing radical nationalism. While the neo-liberal nationalism axis depicts an authoritarian and top-down model of economic and political development marked with the expansion of a national security-obsessed middle class and ruling elite, the right-wing radical nationalism axis denotes the growth of religious radicalism and militancy as symbols of geopolitical modernity that are anti-imperialist in nature. This analysis argues that liberalism is one of the many consequences of modernity, but not the only one. The meeting point of both trajectories has resulted in turning Pakistan into a hybrid-theocratic state which encapsulates a mix of economic neo-liberalism, pockets of social liberalism, formal theocracy and larger spaces experiencing informal theocracy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby RamaY » 15 Dec 2011 04:34

Islam is the problem of Pakistan. Once that is taken out of the discussion, can it still stay under military janta for long?


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