Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

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shyamd
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shyamd » 07 Jan 2012 21:57

caught my eye. Hope people will enjoy this one
Arab origins
By Salman Rashid
Published: January 6, 2012

The writer is author, most recently of, “The Apricot Road to Yarkand” (Sang-e-Meel, 2011) and a member of the Royal Geographical Society salman.rashid@tribune.com.pk

Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent. If not direct Arab descent, then the illustrious ancestor had come from either Iran or Bukhara. Interestingly, the ancestor is always a great general or a saint. Never ever have we heard anyone boasting of an intellectual for a forebear. We hear of the progeny of savage robber kings, but there is no one who claims Abu Rehan Al-Beruni or Ibn Rushd as a distant sire.

Arab origin is the favourite fiction of all subcontinental Muslims. Most claim their ancestor arrived in Sindh with the army under Mohammad bin Qasim (MbQ). But, I have heard of lineages reaching back to Old Testament prophets as well. An elderly Janjua (Rajput), from the Salt Range told me of a forefather named Ar, a son of the Prophet Isaac. Ar, he said, was the ancestor of the races that spoke the Aryan tongue!

Touted as a local intellectual, this worthy was unmindful of the fact that Aryan was not a tribal name but a linguistic classification. Neither could he tell me how the name Ar, not being in the Old Testament, had reached him. He insisted this name headed his family tree and was, therefore true. The chart, written on a piece of rather newish paper had been, the Janjua insisted, copied from an old original. The original was of course destroyed after the copy was made.

The Arains flaunt Salim al Raee as their father — the clan being called after his surname. A great and valiant general in the army of MbQ, this man was from an agricultural family of Syria, so the Tarikh-e-Araian tells us. Closer to our times, the Arains are indeed acclaimed for their green thumb for which reason Shah Jehan relocated a large bunch of them to mind the newly laid out Shalimar Garden of Lahore. Today, they are a very rich clan in Baghbanpura.

The Tarikh expounds on this fictional ancestor’s noble background and courage in battle to the extent that he almost outshines MbQ. But it does not give us any source or reference for the rubbish that sullies its pages. There are two authentic histories of the Arab conquest of Sindh. Ahmad Al Biladhuri’s Futuh ul Buladan (written circa 860) and Hamid bin Ali Kufi’s Tarikh-e-Hind wa Sindh, translated first into the Persian as Fatehnama Sindh and then into Sindhi as the Chachnama (written circa 1200).

There are dozens of names sprinkled across the pages of both works, but no mention is made of a blue-blooded warrior called Salim al Raee. There are other histories besides these two works which also disregard this name for the only reason that such a man never existed.

The Awans, similarly, have a fictional ancestor called Qutb Shah from the line of the last caliph of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. My friend Kaiser Tufail, an Arain, has had himself genetically tested from the US. He has no trace of Arab blood. His line comes from what is now Uzbekistan and has lived from early historic times in the subcontinent. The rest of us of this clan will see similar results should we go through this exercise. Kaiser had his son-in-law, an Awan, also tested. He, too, is singularly clean of Arab genes.

Most of us are the progeny of converts. In their need to escape the discrimination of the so-called higher castes, our ancestors converted to a religion that in theory claimed to profess human equality regardless of colour or caste. I use the words ‘in theory’ because even as the Arabs converted our ancestors to Islam, they discriminated against them for being “Hindis” as we learn this from Ibn Batuta’s own prejudices. And he is not alone.

Consequently, even after conversion, my ancestors, poor agriculturists, were looked down upon by the Arabs and even those who had converted earlier the same way as they were by the Brahmans when they professed their Vedic belief. Within a generation or two, those early converts began the great lie of Arab ancestry to be equal to other converts and the Arabs. This became universal with time.

The challenge then is for all those, Baloch, Pathan, Punjabi et al, who have invented illegitimate fathers for ourselves to get ourselves tested and know the bitter truth.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 7th, 2012.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Jan 2012 22:01

^^^ ouch!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 07 Jan 2012 22:07

KLNMurthy,

>>Really? I read it and thought it was utterly bankrupt of logic or original thinking. What did you find sly and clever about it?

Shiv has explained it clearly on pg 57 of this thread, can't better it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Rahul M » 07 Jan 2012 22:16

Philip wrote:Remember one of our jokers Rama something from TN and his magic herbal fuel? He fooled many a politico and babu.

the difference being ramar was not director of ISRO or chairman of AEC. also, his efforts, while not feasible (he claimed to extract petrol equivalent from plants) did not violate elementary science.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Jan 2012 22:22

nitpik (I don't know why this discussion is here): Ramar Pillai's claim *did* violate elementary science (if it can be called that)...conservation of energy pricinciple..his claim took in more energy than what he thought/peddeled.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Vivek_A » 07 Jan 2012 22:57

shiv wrote:If it happens US and Chinese support will go to help the Paki army survive Indian retaliation.


That's your analysis? The US going is going to work with China to save TSP's skin?

With all due respect, Dr Sahab, this is nutty nation level analysis completly divorced from reality....not regular divorced from reality..I'm talking Newt Gingrich level divorced...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chaanakya » 07 Jan 2012 23:03

Rahul M wrote:
Philip wrote:Remember one of our jokers Rama something from TN and his magic herbal fuel? He fooled many a politico and babu.

the difference being ramar was not director of ISRO or chairman of AEC. also, his efforts, while not feasible (he claimed to extract petrol equivalent from plants) did not violate elementary science.

Kalam did promote Bio Diesal (from Jatropha) and there are many plants which yield oil that could be used in such engines.Kirlosker is having Bio Fuel Generator for power. Ethanol from Starch ( like Maize) is another bio fuel (big idea in Brazil).
Don't know what exactly Ramar Pillai claimed though. ANyway its OT here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Dilbu » 07 Jan 2012 23:04

Vivek_A wrote:
shiv wrote:If it happens US and Chinese support will go to help the Paki army survive Indian retaliation.


That's your analysis? The US going is going to work with China to save TSP's skin?

With all due respect, Dr Sahab, this is nutty nation level analysis completly divorced from reality....not regular divorced from reality..I'm talking Newt Gingrich level divorced...

US has done this before. Remember nuke proliferation from China to TSP with wink-wink from unkil? US don't have to do anything public to side with China when it comes to TSP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Rahul M » 07 Jan 2012 23:05

Satya_anveshi wrote:nitpik (I don't know why this discussion is here): Ramar Pillai's claim *did* violate elementary science (if it can be called that)...conservation of energy pricinciple..his claim took in more energy than what he thought/peddeled.

he claimed to get a petrol substitute from some secret plant after certain procedures known only to him. more or less same principle as producing biodiesel from jathropha. how does that violate conservation of energy ?

the context was the claim by suparco R&D head that he had developed a perpetual motion engine (anujan's post last page).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chaanakya » 07 Jan 2012 23:07

CRamS wrote:
Altair wrote:Thats one truck no Train load of Bull$hit!


Except for that RAPE chic :-). Just a piskological question. With TSP women so attractive and quite articulate, why do TSP RAPE men so desperate to court white & Hindu elite women?

Take the women away and convert the society . Dominance. Beauty and attraction is not the issue.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Vivek_A » 07 Jan 2012 23:51

Dilbu wrote:US has done this before.


US has dropped a nuke before on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

How likely do you think it is that the US is going to do this in the foreseeable future?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 08 Jan 2012 00:39

Rahul M wrote:he claimed to get a petrol substitute from some secret plant after certain procedures known only to him. more or less same principle as producing biodiesel from jathropha. how does that violate conservation of energy ?

Pl look up his claim - it wasn't just petrol substitute..the guy was adding petroleum/kerosene etc to his "leaves". This was discussed in BR too and laughed off. I will see if I can find IIT Chennai's refutation of his claim and post it in nukkad later.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anantha » 08 Jan 2012 01:11

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Rahul M wrote:he claimed to get a petrol substitute from some secret plant after certain procedures known only to him. more or less same principle as producing biodiesel from jathropha. how does that violate conservation of energy ?

Pl look up his claim - it wasn't just petrol substitute..the guy was adding petroleum/kerosene etc to his "leaves". This was discussed in BR too and laughed off. I will see if I can find IIT Chennai's refutation of his claim and post it in nukkad later.


The herbal petrol guy did not explain adequately what he did and it took political overtones and was even attacked and his equipment destroyed.
Research is on for a class of compounds called oil producing bacteria that will convert bio-waste/garbage to fuel. There is no violation of mass/energy. Consider it as an extension of yeast multiplying to convert sugar to ethanol.
I wont be surprised if that research is complete and the technology is sitting on the shelves of Enron/Dick Cheney Inc, and will be pulled out of the Musharraf when middle-East oil dries out.
Any way out of topic- why do we need to discuss science and tech in a thread dedicated to discuss about a group of primitive people bent on living in the 6th century.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Rahul M » 08 Jan 2012 01:13

Pl look up his claim - it wasn't just petrol substitute..the guy was adding petroleum/kerosene etc to his "leaves". This was discussed in BR too and laughed off. I will see if I can find IIT Chennai's refutation of his claim and post it in nukkad later.


you don't have to, I know that he did. but he claimed something else, that he could produce fuel from plants, which is not an impossible claim by any means, unlike the paki one. without exact knowledge of what he was doing the experts had no way of catching the fraud.

my objection was only with the == between something done by a suparco scientist and ramar.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby KLNMurthy » 08 Jan 2012 01:55

JE Menon wrote:KLNMurthy,

>>Really? I read it and thought it was utterly bankrupt of logic or original thinking. What did you find sly and clever about it?

Shiv has explained it clearly on pg 57 of this thread, can't better it.

I guess both Tharoor and shiv are too subtle for me. What I read was:

1. Telling pakis they have veto over India's growth.

2. Telling pakis that India will give them what they want to get them to not exercise that veto.

3. Throwing out a bunch of random digs at TSP which apparently make some of us very happy as they are not, apparently, the meaningless point-scoring that I foolishly took them to be, but actually evidence of boldness and insight of a level beyond my comprehension.

I guess that gets points in someone's book for cleverness but stupid me doesn't get what it has to do with defending India or getting TSP under control.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Prem » 08 Jan 2012 02:15

shiv wrote:
rohitvats wrote:China is required to balance external actors/factors and not internal challenges.

I suspect China has other concerns. Like I mentioned - there was news that les Chinoises (as they say in France when I teach them French) had killed 7 Uighur Islamists. That means that at least some of these guys are getting trained in the very areas that Pakhinis are unable to control even to asslick les Chinoises.They slip into China via "Northern Areas" (formerly Kashmir) so the Pakhani army seems to be trying to create cooperation between a newly formed Northern Light Infantry (that was decimated in Kargil) and the PLA. I suspect the new NLI may well be Pakhana army regulars paid for by PLA to try and check infiltration and exfiltration of Uighurs.


Kaputani Kiyani 's guftgu with PLa must had impact on Indian decision to send half the Fauji delegation to Dragonbaad . Did they again intercept some interesting noise comig out of wide open Paki mouth ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anujan » 08 Jan 2012 03:20

shiv wrote:I suspect China has other concerns. Like I mentioned - there was news that les Chinoises (as they say in France when I teach them French) had killed 7 Uighur Islamists. That means that at least some of these guys are getting trained in the very areas that Pakhinis are unable to control even to asslick les Chinoises.


The yahoos Pakis are training to fight in Afghanistan consider Xingiang to be a legitimate cause. So much so that the Commie party of China talks directly to JI of Pakistan.

There are some noise in Pakistan about selling the idea of a "grand strategic gesture" from China to tell the world that Pakis are China's B8tch now and not Unkil's B8tch.

Essentially Pakis are telling China
1. You have arrived
2. To tell the world that you have arrived you need a B8tch, Pakis can be that
3. For Pakis to be your B8tch, there should be a grand gesture of billions of $ in investment, massive arms through soft loans, investment in nuke plants, joint bases etc
4. Army will sell the Unkil co-operation as civvie idea (actually it was Musharraf's but hey, everyone's memory is short) and Cheeni co-operation as Army idea and cement its pre-eminence.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Philip » 08 Jan 2012 04:47

What is up with the report that China is to boost the image of the Paki army,or something to that effect?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 08 Jan 2012 05:42

>>Throwing out a bunch of random digs at TSP which apparently make some of us very happy as they are not, apparently, the meaningless point-scoring that I foolishly took them to be, but actually evidence of boldness and insight of a level beyond my comprehension. I guess that gets points in someone's book for cleverness but stupid me doesn't get what it has to do with defending India or getting TSP under control.

You asked for an explanation. I pointed out the one which shiv gave, and I can't improve upon. You have your view. Maybe you are right. But I don't think you are. Straightforward disagreement. We can amiably disagree.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Sudip » 08 Jan 2012 05:57

Musharraf advocates Pak-Israel ties

ISLAMABAD: Former president Gen (Retd) Pervez Musharraf has said that Pakistan should give a serious thought to building terms with Israel.

"There is nothing to lose by trying to get on Israel's good side," Musharraf, a former army chief, told the liberal Israeli newspaper Haaretz in an interview carried on its website.

"Pakistan also needs to keep readjusting its diplomatic stand toward Israel based on the mere fact that it exists and is not going away."
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That kind of talk could comfort Israel, which is increasingly nervous because Islamist groups opposed to the Jewish state have been making political gains in Arab states following revolts that brought down autocrats in the region.

Israeli officials were not immediately available for comment on Musharraf's remarks.

Musharraf, who resigned in 2008 in disgrace, has said he plans to return to Pakistan this month, despite possible arrest, in order to participate in a parliamentary election due by 2013.

On Sunday, he is scheduled to address a rally via video in the country's biggest city and commercial hub, Karachi, sources in his recently formed All Pakistan Muslim League said.

Speaking in favour of relations with Israel could make Musharraf more unpopular, especially among militants who made several attempts on his life with bombings because of his support for the U.S. "war on terror" following the 9/11 attacks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby JE Menon » 08 Jan 2012 06:00

Looks like people have been reaching out to Musharraf on his wanderings abroad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 08 Jan 2012 06:27

Vivek_A wrote:
shiv wrote:If it happens US and Chinese support will go to help the Paki army survive Indian retaliation.


That's your analysis? The US going is going to work with China to save TSP's skin?

With all due respect, Dr Sahab, this is nutty nation level analysis completly divorced from reality....not regular divorced from reality..I'm talking Newt Gingrich level divorced...


Well thanks for the analysis but I believe you have been unfair to me by reaching a conclusion and not asking me. You make it sound as though I alleged the US and China are actively going to cooperate with each other. No. They are individually and separately going to support Pakistan against India. It will happen the way it has always happened in the past.

In 1965 - up until the war started the US had been filling Pakistan up with arms. During the war China made threatening moves at the border.

In 1971 again the US did everything (as per released cables) to avoid embarrassment of Pakistan and sent the 7th fleet. China supported Pakistan at the UN. Soon after the war China started supplying Pakistan with arms to make up for losses.

In both instances both the Chinese and the Americans helped the Pakistan armed forces recover from their losses and maintain some relative strength against India to show to their people as some sort of echandee saving victory.

PS: I don't know what Newt Gingrich divorced means . Are you comparing me with an amphibious animal having marital issues? :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 08 Jan 2012 06:48

KLNMurthy wrote:
JE Menon wrote:KLNMurthy,

>>Really? I read it and thought it was utterly bankrupt of logic or original thinking. What did you find sly and clever about it?

Shiv has explained it clearly on pg 57 of this thread, can't better it.

I guess both Tharoor and shiv are too subtle for me. What I read was:

1. Telling pakis they have veto over India's growth.

2. Telling pakis that India will give them what they want to get them to not exercise that veto.

3. Throwing out a bunch of random digs at TSP which apparently make some of us very happy as they are not, apparently, the meaningless point-scoring that I foolishly took them to be, but actually evidence of boldness and insight of a level beyond my comprehension.

I guess that gets points in someone's book for cleverness but stupid me doesn't get what it has to do with defending India or getting TSP under control.


:rotfl: Don't belittle yourself. No need to feel inadequate or insecure :mrgreen:

Telling Pakis they have a veto over India's growth is telling Pakis what they have been saying for many years. They have been claiming veto over India's growth. This is neither going to make them stop nor redouble their efforts. It was a private speech made by Tharoor . Maybe if someone else had written that he might have told the Pakis "You morons - you think you're holding us back but you're not". But this too would neither have stopped the Pakis nor made them redouble their efforts.

It amused me personally (though not you) to see Tharoor alternately massaging Paki ego and in another sentence putting a barb into their echandee.

On the idea that Tharoor was "Telling pakis that India will give them what they want to get them to not exercise that veto." - you know he was better than I would have been . I would perhaps have told Pakis "Please come and get it. You can take Delhi, Agra whatever you want but please stop terror". But I am not at all certain how much different it would have been if Someone had said "Yo Pakis we will nuke you if you don't stop terror". Maybe some people feel more satisfied after hearing language of the latter kind. But it was Tharoor's speech, not mine or anyone else's. My aunt was female.

But I see a difference in attitude. The person who asks Pakis to come and get it is someone who is confident of himself being at a higher level. The person who warns Pakis and talks to them like they talk to us is doing an equal equal. It's about perceptions. My perceptions are different from yours. But that does not mean that you need to demean yourself.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby hnair » 08 Jan 2012 06:51

JE Menon wrote:Looks like people have been reaching out to Musharraf on his wanderings abroad.


More like Mushy has been giving "reach arounds" around the world. Scared he certainly seem

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anujan » 08 Jan 2012 07:27

Pakis are a lost cause. It doesn't matter what we do or say anymore. A bloodbath inside pakiland followed by the emergence of one power center which has consolidated its power is needed before India can influence Pakiland through carrot, stick, surrender, treachery or whatever. So everyone chill out.

At this stage, even if we are ready to surrender JK we don't know who to call in Pakiland to share the good news. 10%? Groper? (They are hanging to their chairs) Ashphuck? Pasha? (They are an inch from being qadrified by the TFTAs) Various Yahoos fleeing the predators? (They are freezing in the cold without gas and electricity). Who exactly would we call to surrender ?

Unkil and taller than deep sea friend also have this problem. So they are setting up a telephone number first.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby Anujan » 08 Jan 2012 07:33

Oh and forgot to add. Little birdie tells me that when jernail sahib goes on morale boosting trips to visit yahoos he brings his own bodyguards and the guns of all the abduls are emptied first.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby CRamS » 08 Jan 2012 08:05

Guys,

KLNMurthyJi, like me is not overly impressed with Tharoor's Chanakyan speech. Of course, I don't deny that there are elements of Tharoor's speech that make sense, but when he says


we must engage Pakistan because we cannot afford not to.



So 26/11 is history in Tharoor's mind? Talk like this despite TSP showing India the middle finger on 26/11, and pigLeTs roaming freely in TSP ready to strike India; doesn't strike me as Chanakyan.

Tomorrow, Tharoor & Co will start the thesis that we must give Kashmir valley to TSP because we cannot afford not to do so. We must give whatever else TSP wants because we cannot afford to. Our 8% growth and so called "great power" status depends on that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby jrjrao » 08 Jan 2012 08:30

hnair wrote:
JE Menon wrote:Looks like people have been reaching out to Musharraf on his wanderings abroad.


More like Mushy has been giving "reach arounds" around the world. Scared he certainly seem

Ha ha! sorry for the off-topic post, but this reference to "reach arounds" reminded me of one of my favorite movie scenes -- the opening one of Full Metal Jacket starring R. Lee Ermey.

Here is the excerpt talking about reach arounds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUr6kr6TagU

which is part of the full 9 min opening scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m_1hglR ... re=related

Chuckling at the thought of Mushy offering reach-around services to them seedy stink-tankers in DC....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pgbhat » 08 Jan 2012 08:45


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chetak » 08 Jan 2012 09:07

CRamS wrote:Guys,

KLNMurthyJi, like me is not overly impressed with Tharoor's Chanakyan speech. Of course, I don't deny that there are elements of Tharoor's speech that make sense, but when he says


we must engage Pakistan because we cannot afford not to.



So 26/11 is history in Tharoor's mind? Talk like this despite TSP showing India the middle finger on 26/11, and pigLeTs roaming freely in TSP ready to strike India; doesn't strike me as Chanakyan.

Tomorrow, Tharoor & Co will start the thesis that we must give Kashmir valley to TSP because we cannot afford not to do so. We must give whatever else TSP wants because we cannot afford to. Our 8% growth and so called "great power" status depends on that.


He is already saying that. :evil:

He is just parroting the views of other babus who want to bend over all greased up.

tharoor is just another nether region licking babu in the end. He has no original views of his own. He is trying to get rehabilitated by pushing the unpalatable views of the singh parivar.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby shiv » 08 Jan 2012 09:19

chetak wrote:tharoor is just another nether region licking babu in the end. He has no original views of his own. He is trying to get rehabilitated by pushing the unpalatable views of the singh parivar.



I would personally giev him more credit that that because he says up front that he was against MMSs friendship moves. And his speech that goes on to toe the GoI line is filled with digs at Pakistan.

Tharoor is a loose cannon. Right from his "cattle class" days. If you leave out what the Pakis may or may not see in his speech you find that he has said things that would make the "lick Paki ass" people squirm - if they only understood what he is saying. But they won't. :lol:
Last edited by shiv on 08 Jan 2012 09:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chetak » 08 Jan 2012 09:22

Pakistan's radical groups slam 'Indian terrorism'

An alliance of religious and extremist groups on Saturday said Pakistan should settle the Kashmir issue and differences over sharing river water before it normalises trade relations with India and gives it Most Favoured Nation-status.

The Defence of Pakistan Council, which includes the Jamaat-ud-Dawah and Ahl-e-Sunnat Wal Jamaat, made the demand in a joint declaration adopted at a meeting of the top leaders of the various groups.

The declaration described the move to give MFN-status to India as a "plot against Pakistan".

The council demanded that the government should not make any unilateral move to normalise trade relations.

"Before beginning trade with India, the issues of Kashmir and water should be resolved," it said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chetak » 08 Jan 2012 09:27

shiv wrote:
chetak wrote:tharoor is just another nether region licking babu in the end. He has no original views of his own. He is trying to get rehabilitated by pushing the unpalatable views of the singh parivar.



I would personally giev him more credit that that because he says up front that he was against MMSs friendship moves. And his speech that goes on teh toe teh GoI line is filled with digs at Pakistan.

Tharoor is a loose cannon. Right from his "cattle class" days. If you leave out what the Pakis may or may not see in his speech you find that he has said things that would make the "lick Paki ass" people squirm - if they only understood what he is saying. But they won't. :lol:


Having taken quite the public fall, the sly blighter is probably changing horses after having barely made it to the bank all the while avoiding alligators in his constituency.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 08 Jan 2012 09:35

Sudip wrote:Musharraf advocates Pak-Israel ties

"There is nothing to lose by trying to get on Israel's good side," Musharraf, a former army chief, told the liberal Israeli newspaper Haaretz in an interview carried on its website.

He is trying to get into the good books of the extremely powerful Israel lobby within the US establishment.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby chetak » 08 Jan 2012 09:47

pankajs wrote:{quote="Sudip"}
Musharraf advocates Pak-Israel ties

"There is nothing to lose by trying to get on Israel's good side," Musharraf, a former army chief, told the liberal Israeli newspaper Haaretz in an interview carried on its website.

He is trying to get into the good books of the extremely powerful Israel lobby within the US establishment.


I foresee hemp or manilla cordage and a pakistani lamp post in this jokers future. :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 08 Jan 2012 09:50

shyamd wrote:caught my eye. Hope people will enjoy this one
Arab origins

Myth-making is one of the defining trait of the pakis and essential to the paki narrative. This is just one example. There is the famous 1 TFTA = 10 SDRE equation and many others. It is funny they always end up scoring self goals.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby CRamS » 08 Jan 2012 10:23

shiv wrote:
I would personally giev him more credit that that because he says up front that he was against MMSs friendship moves.



Not sure where he said this, but if its your interpretation, I disagree, and lets agree to disagree :-).


And his speech that goes on to toe the GoI line is filled with digs at Pakistan.



Big deal. And TSP takes lotsa digs at India too in return. What is required is thappad, and many of them, on TSP's backside. Short of that, at least beef up internal defense and shun TSP in other ways. Why does Tharoor or any India with self respect have to go to a GHQ-sponsored event and beg for peace. Begging only invites derision, contempt, more demands, and ultimately, more terror.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby CRamS » 08 Jan 2012 10:26

pankajs wrote:He is trying to get into the good books of the extremely powerful Israel lobby within the US establishment.


You beat me to this, I was going to point this out as well. If Mush succeeds and gets into the good books of the Jewish lobby, India is in for more pressure from US to surrender more to TSP than it already has.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby SSridhar » 08 Jan 2012 10:28


Pakistan took a similar stance a long time back. The only reason that Pakistan is wiling to seek alliance with Jewish Israel is that its hatred for Hindu India overwhelms the Muslim hatred for the Jews. Pakistan is even willing to anger other Muslim states if it furthers its chances against Hindu India. It is as simple as that.

Pakistan’s siding with the Western powers against Egypt in four instances, the abrogation of the Anglo-Egypt treaty on the Suez Canal and in the British-French-Israeli attack on Egypt in 1956, the creation of Israel and the British-US sponsored treaties such as Middle East Defence Organization (MEDO) or the “northern tier defence”, put paid to the ambitions of assuming the Ummah leadership . From Dennis Kux's book, 'Disenchanted Allies', I quote:
The public opinion in Pakistan towards the British and French action was stormy. In Karachi, mobs attacked the British High Commission. In Lahore, some three hundred thousand angry demonstrators protested against the invasion. The Presss stridently urged the giernment to quit the Western camp and the British Commonwealth. Suhrawardy wobbled at first and then, stiffened by Mirza, who worked closely with the British, refused to break with Pakistan’s Baghdad Pact allies. “I refuse to be isolated. We must have friends”, Suhrawardy argued. After the US opposed the attack on Egypt, Suhrawardy’s stance became politically more palatable. Still, his action widened the breach between Pakistan and Egypt and other neutralist Arab states.

Pakistani Prime Minister Suhrawardy’s support for the British-French-Israeli plan on Suez Canal by referring to the Arabs as ‘zero plus zero is after all zero’, so angered President Nasser that he used to tell Indian leaders that India’s non-occupation of Lahore disappointed him.

In c. 2009, the violent crackdown by the Chinese authorities on the Uighur Chinese in the Xinjiang province was supported by Pakistan as an “effort to maintain social stability, peace and ethnic harmony”.

Sudip wrote:That kind of talk could comfort Israel, which is increasingly nervous because Islamist groups opposed to the Jewish state have been making political gains in Arab states following revolts that brought down autocrats in the region.


It is doubtful if a teetering Pakistan, itself on the verge of drowning any time now, is taken seriously among other Muslim countries even with its nuclear weapons, because this nuclear weapon state begs with other Muslim countries like KSA, UAE, Kuwait and Turkey for aid and support.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Postby pankajs » 08 Jan 2012 10:29

I am thinking of it as a move by Mush to get the chair that dus-percenti may have to vacate.


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