Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 08 Dec 2011 07:19

Yea! Thanks, Anup. Can now see why Moeed Pirzada has gotten his knickers in such a twisty mess (including this silly rejoinder -- "A word for Professor Stephen Krasner: I am so glad that I studied international relations at Columbia and not Stanford.").

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 08 Dec 2011 07:49

vijayk wrote:Once the civilian facade goes away, can we expect drones to intentional accidental bombing of army or ISI? Unless they strike terror in the hearts of Paki army and ISI, the pigs will bomb afghans, NATO forces and Indians. Kayani or pasha or both should be accidented. The Paki dogs need to fear.

Keep dreaming. The US is on it's way out of the theatre and they were never that bold or powerful to begin with. You guys have always given USA far more credit than it ever deserved.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 08 Dec 2011 08:04

I think Army is not the only problem in pak. The root of the mess is corrupt and selfish elites. And a poisonous ideology.

Replacing a few individuals with others or replacing one Org.(like army) with another org. seems like a temporary fix and is unlikely to solve anything.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 08 Dec 2011 08:05

Y. Kanan wrote:
vijayk wrote:Once the civilian facade goes away, can we expect drones to intentional accidental bombing of army or ISI? Unless they strike terror in the hearts of Paki army and ISI, the pigs will bomb afghans, NATO forces and Indians. Kayani or pasha or both should be accidented. The Paki dogs need to fear.
Keep dreaming. The US is on it's way out of the theatre and they were never that bold or powerful to begin with. You guys have always given USA far more credit than it ever deserved.

The way the butchered the 2 dozen Paki recently, you got to give them credit! And you can absolutely bet that there is more from where that came from!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 08:06

In fact, this Krasner guy is offering Pakistan the lifeline it needs. I don't know why Moeed must be unhappy. Krasner can understand why Pakistan needs jihadis to 'defend' itself against India. Let him 'understand' anything but this 'defence' is total cr@p. Pakistan has been using jihadis to attack, aggress and grab India, not defend. It has gone even beyond that to subvert India from within. Krasner should know all that if he had been following Pakistan (obviously he is otherwise he would not have written this article) and yet he peddles a lie. Krasner is even suggesting to curtail normal India-Afghanistan state-to-state relations to satisfy imaginary Pakistani fears. Let us look at the increased economic and reduced military assistance under Obama that he peddles. If total aid increased by 48% and economic aid increased from 25 to 45 %, does it translate into less military aid ? No. That means that military aid actually increased from 75% to 81.4 %.

The American intention is crystal clear. They are *still* willing to sacrifice normal Indian interests to make Pakistan behave better towards them. They have never minded that their policies have endangered India, and Afghanistan too in the past, tremendously. This is how the US would behave in the future too vis-a-vis India.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 08 Dec 2011 08:38

Indeed, the reality that everyone keeps dancing around is that Pakistani society, as a whole, is fundamentally broken. Neither India nor US can effect any meaningful change there. There is no fixing Pakistan. There can be no reform. Pakistan is probably the most hopelessly poisoned and indoctrinated population on this entire planet.

If Pakistan's problems were caused by a small but powerful minority keeping the rest of the population intimidated, it would look more like Iran or Syria. Over the years, opinion polls conducted in Iran and Syria have revealed a surprisingly progressive and moderate population at odds with the behavior of their government. Contrast to Pakistan, where those same opinion polls have always exposed a highly xenophobic and bigoted population which strongly supports jihad and rejects "western" values. The vast majority of Pakistanis celebrated 9/11 and mourned the death of bin Laden. The majority of Pakis support their country's blasphemy laws. Nobody in that country wants freedom of religion; they want Islam to remain the cornerstone of governance.

You can invade a country like Iraq or Syria and turn them into a reasonably moderate state with enough "housecleaning" (ie: supporting the moderates and killing off the hostile segment of the population). Their populations aren't so poisoned that they are forever beyond reason. They can be "saved". But this sort of transformation will never be possible in Pakistan.

Even after all these years, Indians don't want to admit what should be obvious by now. There are only two solutions to the Pakistan problem:

1) Isolation
2) Total War

Isolation is simply trying our best to keep them out of India and hoping for the best. Total War would require all-out nuclear war followed by invasion and virtually exterminating much of Pakistan's rebellious population. Obviously we as a civilization are not capable of that. We aren't ruthless enough by a long shot, not to mention this would entail India taking some nuclear hits as well.

So isolation it is, then.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 08 Dec 2011 08:46

SSridhar wrote:The American intention is crystal clear. They are *still* willing to sacrifice normal Indian interests to make Pakistan behave better towards them. They have never minded that their policies have endangered India, and Afghanistan too in the past, tremendously. This is how the US would behave in the future too vis-a-vis India.

Don't understand why we expect different and I always scratch m head when people say Amrika should concern itself with Indian interests. Despite all the fawning we share very little in common. They don't understand us and we don't understand them. It will always be so.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2011 08:57

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SSridhar wrote:The American intention is crystal clear. They are *still* willing to sacrifice normal Indian interests to make Pakistan behave better towards them. They have never minded that their policies have endangered India, and Afghanistan too in the past, tremendously. This is how the US would behave in the future too vis-a-vis India.
Don't understand why we expect different and I always scratch m head when people say Amrika should concern itself with Indian interests. Despite all the fawning we share very little in common. They don't understand us and we don't understand them. It will always be so.

Quite right, but Indians need to change the way they look at themselves and America.

When the US has clearly acted against Indian interests to restrict India's freedom of action - Indians need to understand that India's inaction/wekness was not merely because of Indian incompetence or fear of Pakistan. There was often a fear of what the US was doing.

And Indians also need to see that minor US actions against Pakistan need to be taken in the context of various actions taken by the US to protect and support Pakistan as well and there is no way India can act like the US no matter how many "joint admirers" of India and the US might want that to be.

India and Indian interests are separate from the US and US interests and it has been in the US interest to act against Indian interests. At a fundamental level the US is so much more powerful than India that when India gets hit by the US it has to stay hit. If I love both India and the US I would be mistaken in imagining that it is India's fault/weakness for staying hit by the US. On may occasions it may well have been a better bet to get hit and stay hit. Accepting weakness is more sensible than bravado in terms of survival.

In the long term India will definitely have to work against US interests. It would help a great deal if US power declined, which brings me right back to the old statement I made, Pakistan will go down when the US goes down. The US is going down now and so is Pakistan. Amen to that.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 09:04

Nobody bothers about how US practises its foreign policy so long as it does not harm Indian interests. In Tamil, there is a saying, 'Kadai Thengaiyai Eduthu Vazhi Pillaiyaruku Udaipathu' which roughly translates into 'Pick a coconut for free from a wayside shop and offer it to Lord Ganesh'. India should not end up as that wayside shop for US to offer sops to Pakistan. However, understanding Pakistan's needs for jihadis to defend against Indian aggression, or understanding the idea of strategic depth, or limiting Indian influence in Afghanistan or resolving Cashmere (to Pakistan's advantage), or doing other things to reduce Pakistan's insecurity against India certainly fall in that 'Kadai Thengai' case.

PS: It is quite another matter that in some of these issues, we may be unable to do anything at all.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 08 Dec 2011 09:25

Shiv saar:

India and Indian interests are separate from the US and US interests and it has been in the US interest to act against Indian interests....It would help a great deal if US power declined...

Indeed. Indraya swaha takshakaya swaha

Incidentally, Shiv saar, in the previous avatar of this thread, I commented on la fair's piskological proclivities where I mentioned that la fair gets kicks out of opposing any plausibly reasonable viewpoint. I meant that to illustrate an Indian PoV (such as her run-in with Arnab G) - God knows that there is no plausibly reasonable viewpoint coming out of pakiland.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 08 Dec 2011 09:34

The root causes of the mess in Pakistan are:
a) Corrupt and self-serving Elites.
b) Venomous ideology.

Pakistan can be fixed. Two pre-conditions:
a) It needs outside intervention, direct or indirect.
b) Total rejection and eradication of the corrupt elites and the venomous ideology.

Is US capable of this feat?
I believe, yes. However, it seems to be unwilling.

Why?
Because, without the corrupt elites, US has no handle on the Pak. And without the ideology, Pak has no need of being a pawn in US' geopolitical games.

So, what is US trying to do?
US is trying to control the elites to use them as handle on Pak. US is trying to regulate the ideology to wield it as a weapon.

So, what is going wrong?
The ideology has turned vicious beyond control. And the elites are corrupt beyond control. As a result, US is unable to control the situation.

In short, US is trying to repair the present set-up and keep it in 'working condition'. This is impossible, IMHO. The threshold has been crossed for such actions.

The possible change in situation:
So, the question is, has the US come to the realisation that pak cannot be saved in its present avatar? And is it ready to let go of this entity?

If it is ready to let go of this entity, then it means it wants to cultivate another entity as a pawn to replace it. This new potential entity could be India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Dec 2011 09:41

SSridhar so well said about the Kadai Thengai and US attitude. There is something about GOI behavior that foster such hubris!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 10:23

ramana wrote:There is something about GOI behavior that foster such hubris!

I believe that Indian political leaders & bureaucrats have always been forthright in their dealing with the Americans; not meek. However, when it comes to dealing with Pakistan, except on a few instances, we have been very generous & forgiving with them. This meekness by India in bilateral India-Pakistan relationship is exploited and taken advantage of, by the US, IMO. I have least doubt that in its practice of realpolitik, the US is doing everything for maximizing its profits at minimal risk for itself. Indian interlocutors may also convey our displeasure to their American counterparts in meetings etc. But, the US continues to adopt the same 1950s policies because it knows that besides 'lodging a strong protest' with the US, India will do next to nothing to Pakistan, if the US fails to change its policies vis-a-vis Pakistan. If India queers the pitch for Pakistan and consequently the US in the existing scenario, the US may be forced to adopt different strategy that could be more beneficial to us. The US acts when its interests are directly or indirectly threatened. For example, the mobilization after the Parliament attack. An impending Indian attack forced the American administration to extract assurances from Musharraf. Whether these were worthwhile or not or enough or not is another debatable point, though. By not initiating punitive actions against Pakistan (not necessarily only military), we are indirectly conceding our strategic leadership in the region to the US. But, sadly, India misses this link.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Dec 2011 10:35

Zardari confidant: Zardari won’t resign

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Dec 2011 10:54

The memo gate and court case seem like a hedge against zardari proclaiming "pakistan na khappay" and take sindh with him. The image needed to lead that movement took a hit. Earlier BB's assasination provided the window of opportunity in terms of public sympathy and "army responsible for BB's murder."

He will need a good strategy to build that image even as he fights the court case and pakarmy hounds. If not, he can forget his stay in pak. US back stabbed Zardari via MI (and possibly even HH).

Health issues might give him sometime but certainly not going to get him sympathy he had earlier.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 Dec 2011 10:55

What I don't understand is why Zardari went to Dubai instead of London or Paris? For one thing, the D-company still has quite a bit of influence in Dubai underworld and could easily accident the man.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 Dec 2011 10:58

SSridhar wrote:For example, the mobilization after the Parliament attack. An impending Indian attack forced the American administration to extract assurances from Musharraf.

As was mentioned some moons earlier, a grenade is not meant to be preserved and admired. A grenade is meant to be exploded. Its utility is in the damage it causes.

Pak is a grenade for the Amreekis, which has now also become a headache for them. If the grenade is exploded, it will relieve the headache. Post 26/11, US-UK were quietly encouraging India to attack. The activities of Headley and the fake phone call were part of the scenario.

So, if you are expecting that by acting tough against the Paks, we can get the Amreekis to rein them in, I think the paradigm is entirely incorrect.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Dec 2011 10:59

Being a sindhi balach he fits in neatly between two soft spots for pakarmy (Sindh and Balochistan) and there is plenty support for balochs in ME.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Dec 2011 10:59

Benazir family is close to the rulers in Dubai. Badmash prefers the rulers in Riyadh.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 08 Dec 2011 11:05

May be Zardari want to be an exile-President for Baloch-Sindh Federation. While military doctors says he is fit to fight, Zardari doctors said he needed "extensive" evaluation. Since Paikana has multiple power centers, he would have credible information of qadrification, and instead of showing false bravado, he took shelter away from the hotspot. Sheltering in kaffir land does not go well with ROP, and he can claim that he is doing his Hijra.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 08 Dec 2011 11:10

From talking with Americans esp. in Govt. positions, Amerika & Indian Interests are quite misaligned.

Their sole focus is to prevent another 9/11. Period. For this purpose it suits them that we all fight with each other. Their purpose is not to stabalize Afghanistan but to prevent it being over run by the Paki's which would give Paki's a premature victory. It suits them to have a Afghanistan just strong enough it fight long term with TSP. Similarly they want a TSP just strong enough to resist India. It keeps their home front quiet. They want a long running self sustaining low level conflict.

By contrast it is in our, Indian interest to solve this problem once and for all. We want a long term peace. We want peace in our neighborhood. We want a normal neighborhood. But this would make Amerika more vulnerable to the next 9/11 type plot from a stable area exploited by Jihadi groups.

Fundamentally unaligned. Don't understand why we expect Amerika to behave to our expectations.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 08 Dec 2011 11:13

shiv wrote:We always accuse the western press of regarding India as turd world monkeys who do not come up to the standards of the west. But that is true for the way Pakhanaland is regarded too. And Pakhanis are way too sophisticated for the dimwits analysts of the west

All the "coup rumors-shoe rumors" are bullshit. It will be a soft coup' Zardari eased out on "health grounds" - political "support" goes - and "interim consensus government.

It is funny how we have also been eating the shit dished out to us (with some difficulty) since Musharaf was farted out of Pakhanaland. Every goddam western source has been talking of "civilian""democratically elected" government. We know what those elections were and we know who has been governing the major part of shitland all these years.

Don't expect an exciting coup and come back and make me eat my words if something like that happens.

shiv Ji: It makes sense to ease AZ out and bring in a PA man (or a PA afsar directly) into the president's position. The paki dictators, starting from dJinnha have favored the presidency because the so called "on paper" powers of the presidency are awesome compared to that of the PM, so a president, under emergency powers or President's rule, can be a legal dictator in the paki domain. That is what we will see, imo. After that, SS is right in that the PA will demonstrate to the world the true jehaadi nature of the paki's people and perhaps an openly coming together of the informal of the formal PA in a programmed and orchestrated manner. After all, operating in civvies is now of little use. Not only is almost every country combating terrorists aware of the PA/ISI involvement in their production in PA/ISI mills, but more importantly, those countries are now openly stating this as a fact, thus their citizens are being given this information from credible sources (ie, their own news sources and their own government). Pretty soon, every terrorist act will cause fingers to be pointed at the PA/ISI, so it will be far better to be more of a PLO or even an Hammas, run by the paki state, because its denials will be taken more seriously. Of course, that will be a huge miscalculation and a huge over reaching by the PA, because, as always, it has a huge over estimate of its own abilities and resources. It is hard to say what will drive over the top - maybe the Chinees lib. Army finally having had enough of the paki double game in Xinjiang, and with the negative fall out of their association with the paki, turning threatening and hostile. Then the PA is likely to say - "who needs them, we can go it alone, we can make the nukes, and we have more nukes ...” et cetera et cetera. From there, it will be a small step to declaring themselves the Khalifat, and put out the call for all the faithfools to support them. That is just one possible end point that the PA is heading for, and the first step in that has to be the acquisition of a nation-state with legitimacy, and with sufficient gravitas to be taken seriously by the rest of the world – most importantly by those at the top of the world’s political power structure, and also by the common people at the bottom of the world’s social structure- the muslim ummha. By integrating the jehadis all under one flag and controlling the paki state, they get the former, and a significant part of the latter. Whatever they may try to do to get most of the ummha is what will destroy them.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 08 Dec 2011 11:26

If the US does not act according to our whims, shouldn't we be disappointed? Heck!!! I am disappointed when timbuktu does not act as per my expectations.

If GoI believes rightly or wrongly that it can get Americans to act against Jehadi groups in Pakistan, and accordingly it tries, whats the harm in it? And when Americans do not tow GoI's lines sure GoI is disappointed. Like we disappoint the Americans all the time (Nuclear agreement, Fighter deal, FDI, Iran, etc etc etc)

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Dec 2011 11:30

Theo_Fidel wrote:Their sole focus is to prevent another 9/11. Period.

What happens to analysis if this premise is flawed? Nothing that US is doing is fundamentally related to 911. Its interest in Afghanistan, Pakistan, CAR, Middle-East predate 911 and the relations are/were of *exactly* similar in nature as well as goals/objectives. How is US engagement in this region premised on preventing another 911?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Dec 2011 11:34

I remember during Mushrats time a talk about institutionalizing the PA role in civilian Govt. What if they are institutionalizing the same. Retiree PA Chief dons civvies and becomes the President and CIC. Keeps a tab on the Govt. Prime Minister comes from ruling party and looks after routine stuff while the retd PA Chief has a cushy job, controls the present PA Chief..who will be the next Prez and thus cooperative. So the Army continues to rule by civvie proxy. SO may be next Prex is either Mushrat or Kiyani is planning that for himself?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 12:02

harbans wrote:I remember during Mushrats time a talk about institutionalizing the PA role in civilian Govt. What if they are institutionalizing the same.

I thought they have already done that, no ? For example, no meeting with the US officials takes place without the presence of a PA representative. Even in annual strategic level talks, PA gets precedence over civvies. The Foreign Minister is chosen by the PA etc.

Retiree PA Chief dons civvies and becomes the President and CIC. Keeps a tab on the Govt. Prime Minister comes from ruling party and looks after routine stuff while the retd PA Chief has a cushy job, controls the present PA Chief..who will be the next Prez and thus cooperative. So the Army continues to rule by civvie proxy. SO may be next Prex is either Mushrat or Kiyani is planning that for himself?

I had the very exact same thoughts. The only stumbling block I felt, in the current instance at least, is that Imran Khan is so anti-Musharraf. I therefore dropped thinking along those lines. Kayani is a likely candidate but Musharraf is returning next month (he preponed his return a few days back which in hindsight of Zardari developments looks suspicious) and Kayani may choose to continue as COAS, unless Kayani does a musharraf on Musharraf and arrests him upon return. Nobody else can arrest Musharraf in spite of court warrants etc. If Kayani can install Imran Khan as PM in 2012 with Musharraf out of the way, then he would most likely crown himself as the President after hand-picking his successor (with US concurrence, of course).

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Dec 2011 12:08

Considering the blatant way in which both nawaz and BB were attacked when they landed (once before the schedule) from exile, I fully expect Mushy to have a very hard landing and could be even fatal landing if he returns to pak. If he does it and survives, he will be a real Kamandu!

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 08 Dec 2011 12:27

Most probably Musharaff will join Imran Khan. Otherwise he has no future in Pakistan.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 08 Dec 2011 12:35

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal at risk: Newt Gingrich

"My guess is that they have well over 100 nuclear weapons and that the Pakistani military is so penetrated by extremist elements you have no idea if one morning, they are going to lose three or four of them. I mean just have them stolen," Gingrich told CNN's Situation Room program.

Gingrich, a veteran Republican who has surged in recent weeks to the top of the pack of contenders vying to unseat Democratic President Barack Obama, also derided Pakistan's claims that officials did not know Osama bin Laden had been hiding there for years before elite US forces found and killed him in May.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 08 Dec 2011 12:43

fwiw, some interesting pictures from a restaurant in Lahore:

Shiv's Trishul pointing at Badshahi masjid
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4953/pic7u.jpg

Parvati(?) showing the dump that Lahore has become
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5448/pic5ue.jpg

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Dec 2011 12:47

Airavat wrote:Pakistan's nuclear arsenal at risk: Newt Gingrich

Did we also hear Michele Bachman's pronoucements of 6 attempted attacks on 15 paki nuclear sites?

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 08 Dec 2011 13:26

Rohit_K Ji- Re:

Parvati(?) showing the dump that Lahore has become
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5448/pic5ue.jpg

Definately not Parvati. the attitude, however, towards the city is right on. Perhaps this would be Bhagvan Ramachandra's son Lava, who founded this city on the banks of the Ravi river, and gave it his name: Lavapura.[One day, we should reinstate this name again, along with the old Hindu/Buddhist names such as Kushpura(Kasur), Purushpura (Peshawar), Takshashila (Taxila).... and so on]

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 13:34

parsuram wrote:One day, we should reinstate this name again, along with the old Hindu/Buddhist names such as Kushpura(Kasur), Purushpura (Peshawar), Takshashila (Taxila).... and so on

Insh'a Allah. All in good time.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 13:36

I was just listening to Karzai blaming LeJ for the bombings in Kabul & Mazar-e-Sharif and vowing to take revenge. He also mentioned they were responsible for the Mumbai attack. Did he confuse with LeT or was he referring to the ISI ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Dec 2011 13:38

Ghulam Nabi Fai admits to spying for Pak-Media reports.

Ode to Nabi Fai of the ISI.

My!My! My!
Look at Ghulam Nabi Fai
All the while in secret a sly Paki spy
With his greasy little fingers in Kashmir's pie
Looking out for Yanquis whom he could buy
At his parties full of wimmen,whisky and rye
And paid off for his pimping by the ISI!

What were the crimes, by this pestilential fly?
Bribing US officials, profile-high
On orders from his masters from the Paki pigsty
At first he tried to bluster and then to lie
But he was caught in the act with an unzipped fly
"I did it for the money",when asked the judge, "why?"
Now he's off to jail....Bye!Bye!Bye!

By "Phil-the-lip" (copyrighted).

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Dec 2011 13:47

Philip wrote:Ghulam Nabi Fai admits to spying for Pak-Media reports.

Arent Fai and Harsh Mandar of the NAC joint trustees of some trust in UK which Fai was funding called Justice foundation . Now we know that Fai was getting his funds from ISI. Raises serious questions that some of the NAC decisions are based on ISI funding?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 15:13

What the stars foretell for Indian Army: 2012
Excerpts relevant to Pakistan

On the Pakistan front, instability is set to continue with Pakistan having denied itself an opportunity for reprieve by staying away from Bonn II. At the subconventional level, this implies the prevailing levels of peace in Jammu & Kashmir could prove momentary. This apprehension perhaps reinforces the military’s abundant caution in respect of the AFSPA controversy in that state. At the conventional level, the possibility of a strained regional environment implies that the move away from Cold Start rhetoric has been a wise one. That the ‘option’ remains on the table does not need amplification; understated exercises as the ongoing Ex Sudarshan Shakti does that in any case. The exercise conducted by the Pune-based Southern Command is being led by the Bhopal-based 21 Corps, Sudarshan Chakra Corps. Participation of troops of the 31 Armoured Division and aircraft such as SU-30 MKI, Jaguars, Mig-27, MIG-21, AWACS and helicopters suggest little else. Pakistan’s nuclear posturing must however be taken seriously. The implications of Nasr need studying in that light. A possible outcome could be reliance on stand-off firepower led punch rather than a physical one, in the form of Cold Start, in case of grave provocation.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 08 Dec 2011 16:26

twitter says there is a mail from Dr.Babar Awan, to many journalists that Zardari will announce his resignation tomorrow, at 1.00 pm, from his hospital bed. The doctors have advised him rest.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Dec 2011 16:46

Such mail & phone calls are common in Pakistan. Even their President is threatened by such calls originating from condemned prisoners. Nothing surprising in this Babar Awan e-mail.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Dec 2011 16:56

SSridhar wrote:Such mail & phone calls are common in Pakistan. Even their President is threatened by such calls originating from condemned prisoners. Nothing surprising in this Babar Awan e-mail.

May I add the condemned Prisioner's death sentence was passed way back in 2002 but is still getting his share of briyani and procreation activities. His past actions in terror notwithstanding.