Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011

[Dan Mazer]

I wonder, if India hand not defeudalized during the period when socialism was intellectually respectable, what mechanism would have arisen?

When did the bolded part stop being the case in India?

[Altair]

Those guys live in alternate reality.

Absolutely true ramana garu. I sometimes give my gracious presence in some rather ugly Pakistani chat rooms and there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture and India must declare it so. Would you believe it!

[Mahendra]

Gaddari is expected back tonight. The military has publicised the route his motorcade is going to pass through..72?

[Jaspreet]

there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture

I cannot disagree with it. I see the following parallels with present day Pakistan:
(a) the ruler of the country was not elected
(b) he promoted Pakistan`s religion
(c) he used (looted) public treasury for building Taj without any guilt
(d) he was aided by a large army

[Mahendra]

Oh Yeah! and he claimed Cashmere as his !

Only difference is that present day anarkali--Shakeela Malik is doing Nekkid Mujra in enemy King's courts

[ramana]

Very apt and hence the Pak Army angst. Its the fifth category escaping the idea of Islam.

PUBH said there are five types of people in Islam:
1) Muslim men
2) Kafir men
3) Slave men
4) Male Muslim child
5) Muslim women

From 2) to 4) can change status and join 1) but 5) can never change the status.

Modern day Anarkali is seeking saffron pasture in Kafir land. Hence the kabila guards are worried if more decide? Hence they made their displeasure patent.

[Brad Goodman]

Absolutely true ramana garu. I sometimes give my gracious presence in some rather ugly Pakistani chat rooms and there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture and India must declare it so. Would you believe it!

Havent they read Shri P.N. Oak's masterpiece http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_ta ... temple.htm

[Brad Goodman]

President Zardari may return to Pakistan tonight

[RajeshA]

'Veena' Malik is not morally acceptable for me on TSP thread, I hope she is not discussed here till she changes her name to Shakeela Malik. For those who want to discuss this irrelevant person, there is Benis thread and L&S&M&M-elongation thread

If Veena Malik did not have the ability to rile the whole Pakistani Ulema and cause takleef to the TFTA, she would of course not be discussed here, but rather in other threads.

[anupmisra]

Unwashed Abduls Want Pureland to Wash its Hands off Free Money

Tens of thousands rally against US in Lahore

Tens of thousands gathered in one of the biggest-ever protests in the Pakistani city of Lahore Sunday to condemn Nato and United States over the killing of 24 soldiers along the Afghan border.

The protestors, mainly from Islamist groups and political parties, vowed they would march to the capital Islamabad if the government did not cancel agreements between the US designed to fight terrorism.

Now, here's the irony. These low-lifes are protesting the killing of 24 PA soldiers by NATO, the very same soldiers their tellibunny birathers are struggling to kill. Sounds more like arguing over who had staked his claim first to kill the PA cannon fodder. But wait, there's more:

“We will hold a march towards the capital if the government does not revoke agreements of cooperation in the war against terror with the US,” said Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, a senior leader of the Pakistan Defence Council (PDC).

”The US should not turn its missions in Pakistan into spying stations ,” he said, adding that “we will respect Americans if they live in Pakistan as guests but any other agenda will not be tolerated.”

Pakistan Defence Council? This is the first time I am hearing about this august body of intellectuals and well wishers.

[jrjrao]

And on the big stage of this rally are the leaders of the "non-state" actors. The non-state actors include a famous "when I want to fornicate a new doll, I make myself a new widow", and also an expert chef renowned for his halaal bedroom sandwiches.

Of course, joining these "non-state" roaches, I spot a former Director General of ISI, and two ministers in the Musharaff cabinet. Giving proof that there is no difference between state and non-state roaches in Pakisatan.

Pakistan: 30,000 Islamists protest against US following NATO airstrikes against soldiers

[anupmisra]

Giving proof that there is no difference between state and non-state roaches in Pakisatan.

Was there ever a doubt? All pretenses are off.

[Prem]

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20706
Proving all the speculations wrong, President Asif Ali Zardari returned to Pakistan

Tight security arrangements were made at the airport and a large number of Pakistan People’s Party stalwarts were present to receive the President. Asifa, younger daughter of President Zardari, also returned with her father. Meanwhile security has also been beefed up at the Bilawal House in Karachi.Earlier, COAS Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and President Zardari had a telephonic contact today.Sources said the COAS inquired about the health of the ailing President.Earlier, the COAS had a meeting with PM Gilani against the backdrop of controversies surrounding many issues confronting the government.On the other hand, PM Gilani says Army and Government are on same page while change will only come through polls.Talking to journalists, the PM said that the impression of standoff or confrontation between institutions on the issue of memo was unfounded. He said the military and the government had the same point of view. He said there is need of unity to counter the challenges facing the nation.The PM said that that the government would continue its efforts for the continuation of the democratic system in the country. He said the rumour mills active in the country would shut soon.He said that change would only come through elections. He said the next polls would be held on time. He

( Kayani/Zardani baat - haal kaisa hai janab Kaa? Kya Khyal hai aapka? Dubai challe gye tum phir kyon? Sunroof lever kaa Intjaar Kya?)

[Prem]

http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/18/pakistans-patrons.html
Pakistan’s patrons
Michael Krepon

INDIA remains thoroughly non-aligned, even after its civil nuclear deal with Washington. Pakistan, in contrast, needs patrons, and has succeeded in having two powerful ones — Washington and Beijing — to counterbalance India, a significant diplomatic accomplishment.No other country has managed to draw significant, concurrent support from both Washington and Beijing, both before and after these powerhouses started speaking to each other.The United States and Pakistan have been partners since the 1950s. Pakistan`s perceived utility to the United States extended long after John Foster Dulles` regional alliances to contain the Soviet Union — Cento and Seato — dissolved.
Paradoxically, the rise and revitalisation of the Taliban, with Rawalpindi`s support, created conditions whereby Pakistan could initially renew and then jeopardise its partnership with the United States. In June 2004, Washington declared Pakistan to be a major non-Nato ally. It`s been a downhill ride ever since. Reversing this slide will take a good long while, especially if the Taliban retake Kabul with Rawalpindi`s help.
China, Pakistan`s other powerful patron, is an `all weather` friend, providing significant support for Pakistan`s ballistic missile and nuclear weapon programmes in the past.After the Bush administration gifted New Delhi with a qualified exemption to the rules of nuclear commerce, Beijing consented to repeated Pakistani requesDuring crises with India in 1990, 1999 and 2001-02, Pakistani civilian and military leaders made beelines to Beijing seeking backup.They received polite but unmistakable advice to resolve their difficulties with New Delhi without major new weapon shipments or shrill public warnings against Indian military adventurism. Beijing helped the United States, South Asia`s essential crisis manager, more than it helped Pakistan during these three crises.

[Sushupti]

"Religion is the sun warming the tired bones of an old and faithful canine associate."

https://twitter.com/#!/CChristineFair

is that canine associate bakistan?

[shiv]

I wonder, if India hand not defeudalized during the period when socialism was intellectually respectable, what mechanism would have arisen?

When did the bolded part stop being the case in India?

This is a diversion from the topic of Pakistan, but Arun seems to be asking how defeudalization (as was done in India by grabbing land from large landowners and handing that same land to those who lived on the land, causing landholdings to be split up into millions of small plots) could be achieved without socialism? Do you have any answer to a perfectly valid question apart from a clever rhetorical statement?

[shiv]

Absolutely true ramana garu. I sometimes give my gracious presence in some rather ugly Pakistani chat rooms and there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture and India must declare it so. Would you believe it!

Havent they read Shri P.N. Oak's masterpiece http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_ta ... temple.htm

No the Pakis are correct. Altair I don't know which chat room you are talking about but I will email you. Please inform them that I am willing to have the Taj shipped to them. A very small transport fee will have to be paid of course. They can have it.

[Anujan]

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20706
Sources said the COAS inquired about the health of the ailing President.Earlier, the COAS had a meeting with PM Gilani

ISPR, the TFTA public relations dept had earlier released a statement in Urdu that the country had excellent treatment facilities in army run hospitals foe cardiac issues and people don't need to travel abroad to get treated.

[shiv]

There are at least 4 civil wars going on in Pakistan
1. Baluchistan
2. FATA/Waziristan - Pahstunistan Taliban agitation
3. Anti-feudal uprising consisting of conversion of Punjab/Sindh sufi to Wahhabandism.
4. Control of Karachi

The "government" of Pakistan which India has no business recognizing as a legitimate government is
1. Fighting the Baluchis
2. Fighting Pashtuns
3. Sympathetic to the Punjab uprising
4. Takes no specific action on Karachi

The government/establishment/military/deep state of Pakistan is likely to be taken over by Punjab based wahhabandi. Islamists that the US fears wil have nuclear weapons anyway. That is a given. While the US frets and fumes over Iran, it is Pakjabistan that will oppose the US with nukes.

India is anyway under nuclear threat from Pakistan - a fact known well to the US even as the US feeds the deep state/military with arms. Nothing new there.

[shiv]

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20706
Sources said the COAS inquired about the health of the ailing President.Earlier, the COAS had a meeting with PM Gilani

ISPR, the TFTA public relations dept had earlier released a statement in Urdu that the country had excellent treatment facilities in army run hospitals foe cardiac issues and people don't need to travel abroad to get treated.

Oh? So it's OK to nuke Narayana Hrudayalaya in Bangalore then? Someone tell Hamid Gul.

[SSridhar]

Those guys live in alternate reality.

Absolutely true ramana garu. I sometimes give my gracious presence in some rather ugly Pakistani chat rooms and there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture and India must declare it so. Would you believe it!

Altair, that is the other level of confusion. On the one hand, they want to have nothing to do with their past trying everything to discard their Indian past, renounce their millennia old Indian culture and adopt that of the Arabs, but OTOH, they want to claim these relics. That is he conflict between boundary less Islamism and bounded nationalism. Many Pakistanis also believe that the culture of India itself is largely Islamic. Many, including Jinnah, have spoken about ‘Islamic civilization’ as though any such discrete thing ever existed. This again proves that in the minds of the Pakistanis, Islam and Pakistan are synonymous and anything Islamic in Hindu India naturally “belongs” to Pakistan. It is this belief that drives them to name a PN destroyer as PNS Tippu Sultan, after a King from a far away Mysore and who had nothing to do with Pakistan.

[SSridhar]

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20706
Sources said the COAS inquired about the health of the ailing President.Earlier, the COAS had a meeting with PM Gilani

ISPR, the TFTA public relations dept had earlier released a statement in Urdu that the country had excellent treatment facilities in army run hospitals foe cardiac issues and people don't need to travel abroad to get treated.

There is absolutely nothing available to the ordinary citizens. But, the Army gets 'excellent' facilities. Again, the sovereignty belongs to Allah and everything else belongs to the Army.

[ramana]

Shiv, While #3 is going on in TSP, their singers are in India singing Sufi lyrics as they will get W-ul-Cutleted (W-u-C) in TSP.

I mean Sufi songs in a movie about Silk Smitha? What is the world coming to?

Totally W-u-C material.

[anupmisra]

ISPR, the TFTA public relations dept had earlier released a statement in Urdu that the country had excellent treatment facilities in army run hospitals foe cardiac issues and people don't need to travel abroad to get treated.

We know that the army has excellent kidney dialysis centers. OBL liked them so much, he decided to stay.

[arun]

And on the big stage of this rally are the leaders of the "non-state" actors. The non-state actors include a famous "when I want to fornicate a new doll, I make myself a new widow", and also an expert chef renowned for his halaal bedroom sandwiches.

Of course, joining these "non-state" roaches, I spot a former Director General of ISI, and two ministers in the Musharaff cabinet. Giving proof that there is no difference between state and non-state roaches in Pakisatan.

Pakistan: 30,000 Islamists protest against US following NATO airstrikes against soldiers

More on the Difa-i-Pakistan rally organised among others by the UN designated terrorist organisation the Jamaat ud Dawa (JuD)

Former Director General of ISI and former ministers Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed and Ijazul Haq, son of the late dictator Gen Ziaul Haq, were very much present.

Another participant in his capacity as Difa-i-Pakistan Council Chairman was Maulana Samiul Haq aka “Sammy Sandwich” for his sexual predilections, who had this to say:

“We will attack Indian, US, Russian and Nato forces if they try to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty,”

Read it all:

‘Difa-i-Pakistan Conference’: Hafiz Saeed vows jihad against India will continue

[SSridhar]

From TFT

Our mole says the Maulana {Fazl-ur-Rehman ?} was in a private meeting with Hubby when he took ill earlier this month. The Maulana told a friend that he was disturbed to see Hubby becoming anxious and stressed, and when his condition worsened he sprang up from the sofa in which he was sitting and then collapsed. The Maulana, frantic, called out for his staff and put in a phone call to Gill on the Hill who was in a meeting at the time. The Maulana insisted on speaking to him during the meeting and the call was put through. Gill rushed over, as did Bill, and together they urged Hubby to take the next flight out to Dubai for treatment.

[SSridhar]

Another participant in his capacity as Difa-i-Pakistan Council Chairman was Maulana Samiul Haq aka “Sammy Sandwich” for his sexual positional predilections, who had this to say:

“We will attack Indian, US, Russian and Nato forces if they try to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty,”

Maulana Sandwich is willing to get sandwiched between Pakistan and the rest of the world.

[JwalaMukhi]

Another participant in his capacity as Difa-i-Pakistan Council Chairman was Maulana Samiul Haq aka “Sammy Sandwich” for his sexual predilections, who had this to say:

“We will attack Indian, US, Russian and Nato forces if they try to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty,”

Of course pakis mean it. That translates to they will attack India. period. Nothing new there, they always have been doing that. Because the rest of them US,Russian and Nato forces do not try to violate paki's sovirgnity, they routinely violate it. So the attack is only reserved for those who try or those who may try.

[shiv]

cross post

Reconnaissance and air strike have generally been a weakness of the PAF, since majority of the force is dedicated to Air Defence. Aside from the multi-role F-16 and perhaps podded Mirage-III ROSE, the Mirage-5 was the only dedicated recce fighter.

Do PAF ACM Suleiman's revelations mean that PAF has now honed this aspect?

Interestingly, he has noted that Fast Jets were more suited to the environment than helicopters. There may be bias in his arguments since it is the PA which operates the helicopter fleet there. Nevertheless, there is some alignment on this point with our own experience in Kargil.

Coming to the numbers quoted:

- 10,600 bombs
- 4,600 targets
- 80% use of LGBs

Assuming 2 bombs per target, it means that PAF has dropped 1840 LGBs (0.8 x 2300). I find that a stretch as the intensity matches US/NATO numbers in Afghanistan:

http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/arch ... 04_13.html

Moreover that would mean they are consuming their inventory very quick:

Air Force spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Jeffry Glenn said the United States delivered 1,000 MK-82 500-pound bombs to Pakistan last month, and was considering additional requests for those bombs and more laser-guided tail kits.

Glenn said an initial batch of 700 GBU-12 and 300 GBU-10 Paveway laser-guided bomb kits built by Lockheed and Raytheon Co (RTN.N) would be delivered to Pakistan this month, allowing the Pakistani air force to outfit the MK-82 bombs delivered last month with sophisticated technology that allows better targeting of the weapons.

This video shows how effective the PAF has become starting 37 seconds into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8TnRPHDCQ

[SSridhar]

PAF is probably inflating the bombs dropped to get more of them delivered by the US.

[shiv]

Because the rest of them US,Russian and Nato forces do not try to violate paki's sovirgnity, they routinely violate it. So the attack is only reserved for those who try or those who may try.

Why this deeply negative and at least partially untrue and unfair depiction of India and Indians? Agreed we all want India to "do more" like Hilary Clinton says, but is it really necessary to dismiss all Indian action through history as inaction? Why are Indians so deeply negative talking about India while we jump up enthusiastically to paint everyone else with a glow of positivity?

[SSridhar]

Pakistan’s patrons Michael Krepon

INDIA remains thoroughly non-aligned, even after its civil nuclear deal with Washington. Pakistan, in contrast, needs patrons, and has succeeded in having two powerful ones — Washington and Beijing — to counterbalance India, a significant diplomatic accomplishment.No other country has managed to draw significant, concurrent support from both Washington and Beijing, both before and after these powerhouses started speaking to each other.

Why this kolaveri among the 'South Asian' experts to either equate or contrast the situation in India whenever they speak of Pakistan ?

Be that as it may, one must agree with Krepon that Pakistan managed to successfully bed the two masters together most of the time. There are several reasons why it happened, but, it happened.

[ramana]

Its more about what brought those two powerhouses to converge and work with TSP even when they knew it was inimical to India!

[JwalaMukhi]

Why this deeply negative and at least partially untrue and unfair depiction of India and Indians? Agreed we all want India to "do more" like Hilary Clinton says, but is it really necessary to dismiss all Indian action through history as inaction? Why are Indians so deeply negative talking about India while we jump up enthusiastically to paint everyone else with a glow of positivity?

Shivji, agreed those statements could be construed as depiction of India and Indians as not doing enough. It was made to highlight the fact that pakis being pakis make a statement that they would defend their sovirgnity, which continues to be restored routinely by chinese doctors, by starting of with India even though presently their sovirgnity is being plundered by others. More to the point, it was made so kumbhya singers and aman ki tamasha types in India be made acutely aware of pakis.

Nothing new to you about what I am going to say below.
1) Pakis still are nursing their violation of sovirgnity by India during multiple bitch slapping they received during their course of existence, recent being one in kargil. It tremendously hurts pakis and hence by instinct they can't conceive of anything without India in their thought process, even when their sovirgnity is being violated by others.

2) Pakis do not consider violation of sovirgnity by anyone else other than India as actually a violation of their sovirgnity.

Such thinking by pakis has deeper ramifications for India and Indians. That is known to some Indians, except aman ki tamasha types on Indian side, who btw are not in small number.

[Altair]

there are some pakis who actually believe that Taj Mahal was constructed by a Pakistani and represents Paki culture

I cannot disagree with it. I see the following parallels with present day Pakistan:
(a) the ruler of the country was not elected
(b) he promoted Pakistan`s religion
(c) he used (looted) public treasury for building Taj without any guilt
(d) he was aided by a large army

May be why we fail to see the Paki logic is they associate themselves with oppressors and genocidal maniacs instead of statesman and true leaders. They feel a sense of safety that their ancestors were capable of oppressing large Kafr population and they can repeat it in future.

Altair,
Many Pakistanis also believe that the culture of India itself is largely Islamic. Many, including Jinnah, have spoken about ‘Islamic civilization’ as though any such discrete thing ever existed. This again proves that in the minds of the Pakistanis, Islam and Pakistan are synonymous and anything Islamic in Hindu India naturally “belongs” to Pakistan.

There is an entire school of thought about Islamic heritage sites in India being a true reflection of Paki culture and Hindu-Budhist relics being their prized souvenirs of their vanquished. This indoctrination is fed right from age 4.

No the Pakis are correct. Altair I don't know which chat room you are talking about but I will email you. Please inform them that I am willing to have the Taj shipped to them. A very small transport fee will have to be paid of course. They can have it.

They will even ask for Agra fort or Fatehpur Sikhri to be declared Paki heritage sites . I told them that Agra was a ancient city in Mahabharata known as Agrevana. But it is pointless to debate with them.

[Prem]

One equation always remain constant . Pak Virginity= Hoor Virginity = Eternal except in case of kaffir Indians violating it in South Asian style. Paki Virginity lootne vale, tera jahan abbad rahhe . Here is the Video of the rally ..
[youtube]vUoREvD6wuU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[johneeG]

May be why we fail to see the Paki logic is they associate themselves with oppressors and genocidal maniacs instead of statesman and true leaders. They feel a sense of safety that their ancestors were capable of oppressing large Kafr population and they can repeat it in future.

Altair,
Many Pakistanis also believe that the culture of India itself is largely Islamic. Many, including Jinnah, have spoken about ‘Islamic civilization’ as though any such discrete thing ever existed. This again proves that in the minds of the Pakistanis, Islam and Pakistan are synonymous and anything Islamic in Hindu India naturally “belongs” to Pakistan.

There is an entire school of thought about Islamic heritage sites in India being a true reflection of Paki culture and Hindu-Budhist relics being their prized souvenirs of their vanquished. This indoctrination is fed right from age 4.


They will even ask for Agra fort or Fatehpur Sikhri to be declared Paki heritage sites . I told them that Agra was a ancient city in Mahabharata known as Agrevana. But it is pointless to debate with them.

I think these are but symptoms. Pakis dont just claim Taj or Agra or Red Fort or Kashmir...etc. They consciously or sub-consciously claim entire India. They want to replicate the Mughal 'feat'. Wresting Kashmir out of India's control is perhaps seen as a first step in this grand objective. PA has convinced the pakis that it was capable of doing this job. I think in 71, it was clear that this was not possible in direct confrontations. So, greater priority was given proxy-war in Kashmir and arming & funding various anti-national groups in India. I think Mushy took the use of un-uniformed to its logical culmination in Kargil. After the failure of Kargil, the proxy-war was extended to rest of India. The metro cities of India were particularly targeted as they were seen as the engines of Indian growth, confidence and image(H,D,&S-R).

Pakis perhaps believed that by constant battering of these metros through the un-uniformed will eventually make the kaffirs kneel before the neo-Mughals i.e. Pakis. 26/11 seems to be the culmination of this thinking. I dont think pakis expected so much (international) outrage and attention to 26/11. The media coverage was the key.

PA have been tolerated because they were the only ones who could fulfill the dream of taking over India. All the antics of PA were tolerated for this reason. The one thing that PA can never afford is perception of loss at the hands of India because that would invalidate their existence.

[RCase]

Shiv, While #3 is going on in TSP, their singers are in India singing Sufi lyrics as they will get W-ul-Cutleted (W-u-C) in TSP.

I mean Sufi songs in a movie about Silk Smitha? What is the world coming to?

Totally W-u-C material.

Ramana Garu, I like the term. This could be used to get around using the f word. For e.g. 'adbul/ayesha in Pakistan got wuced'?

[SSridhar]

India explores ways to smoothen flow of funds from Pakistan

There has been a continuous flight of capital from Pakistan and GoI is now trying to partake that. We have o be extremely careful.

India is devising new norms for screening investments from Pakistan, a move that is likely to give a fillip to flow of funds from across the border without compromising on internal security.

The commerce and industry ministry is coordinating talks with the ministries of finance and home on the proposed mechanism, a senior official in the ministry told ET.

The norms will be a return gift to Pakistan, which recently agreed to give India the most-favoured nation status. {This is what is known as going more than full distance to please our terrorist neighbour when all that country does is to generate utter some vaguely positive words. This MFN status will never come from Pakistan}

"When Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma visits Islamabad in February, we want that he should be in a position to announce that Pakistani investments are welcome {Why this tearing hurry ?} in the country," the official said. "We need to have all the internal clearances before that."

While talks with the finance ministry are more or less sealed, some issues are being sorted out with the home ministry, the official said. The home ministry is concerned that funds from the neighbouring country could be used to finance terror activities in India.

This fear may hold the government back from putting investments from Pakistan on the automatic approval route. It may instead ask the Foreign Investment Promotion Board to clear investments on a case-bycase basis.

"This will ensure that wherever the government has any doubt about the source or end-use of funds, it could hold its approval and ask for more information. It can allow investments to come in only when it is very sure about its authenticity," the official said, adding that investments from Bangladesh are approved case by case.

Pakistan is hoping that India will warm up to its investments after Islamabad gave its approval for import of larger number of Indian goods beginning next year and decided to grant MFN status to India from December 2012. Pakistan remains the only entry in the negative list under the Foreign Exchange Management Act.

[Pranav]

Zardari is a dead man walking. He may not understand the plan.