People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby member_20617 » 10 Jan 2012 20:35

Harbans

I agree that 7500 km border issues, Tibet and Nepal should be our priority but we must also cultivate our relationship with these Asian countries simultaneously. We cannot afford to put them on a back burner!

Tell me what would you like to see – Chinese influence over these countries (including Nepal) or Indian influence

Pankaj - Pakistan is a whore - so its very easy to pay up and f**k. Taiwan is not the same but they do believe in freedom/democracy (that is the main issue between China & Taiwan since 1948) and we can forge strong partnership with them. Imagine Taiwanese tech goods produced cheaply in India - it benefits both countries. We get the employment/technology + some profits and they get the better part of the increased profits due to cheaper labour costs

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby pankajs » 10 Jan 2012 20:38

Shankaraa wrote:Pankaj - Pakistan is a whore - so its very easy to pay up and f**k. Taiwan is not the same but they do believe in freedom/democracy (that is the main issue between China & Taiwan since 1948) and we can forge strong partnership with them. Imagine Taiwanese tech goods produced cheaply in India - it benefits both countries. We get the employment/technology + some profits and they get the better part of the increased profits due to cheaper labour costs

Right, but in spite of this and in spite of the fact that they are in an uneasy relationship, they keep pumping more money into China. What does that tell us?
Boss it is not about our desire. It is about recognizing the reality and adjusting to it. And that is why I said in one of my earlier post that you can figure out the truth if you just re-read the 3 points you only jotted down.

There are other points like the US umbrella, Japan's reaction to our supplying nukes, US reaction, etc.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby member_20617 » 10 Jan 2012 20:49

Pankaj

Just as USA is pumping money into China

The ultimate aim is to overthrow Communists

Over the next few years, we should try to diversify that investment flow into India by becoming the manufacturing base of the world. It will provide much needed employment as well technology.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby pankajs » 10 Jan 2012 20:53

That is right, we need to change our self internally first. Our policies need to be realigned to the current world context. We should try to get investments from Japan, Taiwan, US, etc.

Just wishful thinking is not going to help IMHO.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2012 20:57

I agree that 7500 km border issues, Tibet and Nepal should be our priority but we must also cultivate our relationship with these Asian countries simultaneously. We cannot afford to put them on a back burner!


Problem at the border or no problem, what has stopped us from developing good relations with Mongolia, or any SE/ East Asian country? What you are saying is look these guys create regular problems on our Northern border..lets develop relations with SE and East Asia. Why not go to the root cause itself..and it's not in Taiwan.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby chaanakya » 10 Jan 2012 21:01

pankajs wrote:
chaanakya wrote:We have immense goodwill in Taiwan. Either way we would be winner. So RajeshA's idea is worth implementing. Incidently Taiwan is part of APO in which India is founding counry while China is not. Even SOKO is member country while NOKO is not. We can start by giving more importance to NPC and APO activities and cooperation.

All of that is good and we should have more contact, trade, etc will these countries. But do you really believe Taiwan will become our lance, so to say, against China that Pakistan is willing or should I say eager to become? For an answer on Taiwan just look at the FDI figures for China. It is the single biggest Invesor in China. That in itself is a huge investment in the China-Taiwan relationship.

Taiwan is not a Lance. I didn't say that we use it as a lance. In case taiwan gets merged with China we would have a strong constituency in merged China. In case it does not, it serves to have good relations and occasional statements from MEA on the eve of stapled Visas besides economic benefits. Taiwan doesn't have to do any special favour to India but to have good relations as it maintains with China. And we do give Visa to Taiwanese citizens that in itself is an irritant to China. Just publicise it. Also Border with China or for that matter with any country would always remain our core concern . It is another mater how it has been dealt with so far.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby member_20617 » 10 Jan 2012 21:07

Pankaj

I am glad we are agreeing on something!

It is not a wishful thinking – it is called a strategic game

First step is to have closer ties with these countries, mainly trade

Second step is to improve people to people contact which will come from trade

Third step is military co-operation

Fourth step is Tiger’s Roar!!!!!

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby pankajs » 10 Jan 2012 21:17

to: chaanakya & Shankaraa

Saar my only issue is that there are certain realities that we need to recognize. We can delude our selfs into thinking otherwise but it will only harm us. Taiwan will never allow itself to be used against China. It has far too much invested into that relationship, however unstable it looks to us from the outside. Even US recognizes the inevitability of merger one day, the only point of debate is the method to achieve it.

I agree with you that we need to develop the relationship further not only for its political significance but also because Taiwan can be a big source of investment for us.

All I say is that do not equate Taiwan with Pakistan for geopolitical games(The initial point of this debate). It will not work. Good relation with Taiwan has its own logic but it cannot be our 'pakistan' wrt China.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby chaanakya » 10 Jan 2012 22:21

pankajs wrote:
All I say is that do not equate Taiwan with Pakistan for geopolitical games(The initial point of this debate). It will not work. Good relation with Taiwan has its own logic but it cannot be our 'pakistan' wrt China.


Taiwan is not Pakistan. That would be an insult to them . Nor India would want it to.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Agnimitra » 10 Jan 2012 22:33

harbans wrote:
I agree that 7500 km border issues, Tibet and Nepal should be our priority but we must also cultivate our relationship with these Asian countries simultaneously. We cannot afford to put them on a back burner!


Problem at the border or no problem, what has stopped us from developing good relations with Mongolia, or any SE/ East Asian country?

Mongolia is ripe for cultivating influence. We already have cultural influence there from the past - more than we realize. Moreover, in current times also there has been a boom in India-related culture there. E.g., 50% to 60% of the population of Mongolia has been part of the "Art of Living" network of spiritual guide Shri Shri Ravi Shankar. And that includes ALL of their members of parliament. They bestowed their highest civilian honor on the guru. So we ought to use that goodwill to cultivate more concrete political-economic-social-military relations also.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby chaanakya » 11 Jan 2012 09:12

Carl wrote:
harbans wrote:

Problem at the border or no problem, what has stopped us from developing good relations with Mongolia, or any SE/ East Asian country?

Mongolia is ripe for cultivating influence. We already have cultural influence there from the past - more than we realize. Moreover, in current times also there has been a boom in India-related culture there. E.g., 50% to 60% of the population of Mongolia has been part of the "Art of Living" network of spiritual guide Shri Shri Ravi Shankar. And that includes ALL of their members of parliament. They bestowed their highest civilian honor on the guru. So we ought to use that goodwill to cultivate more concrete political-economic-social-military relations also.

Absolutely. I see no harm in cultivating close relations with them. Though they have dependence on China in a way which can not be wished away. The relations with India can be strong without bringing in anti china orientations. Mongolia has rich potential for Copper mining and Wind power. It is relatively unexplored and terrain is difficult. It can easily supply 600-1000 GW of 24 hour wind power and if there is grid to export that power or even if china purchases it it would be economically boosting. Its own requirement is very less. They are planning to use this for copper mining. US is in forefront of this new development.

Military relations need not be emphasized as it has geographic limitations but as usual Mongolian people are apprehensive of China and fear of being gobbled up in future.

We have been developing good relations with all these countries and have immense goodwill and we need to capitalise on them in even more forthcoming and integrating manner. The only issue is our obsession is with First world+Pakistan+China for some very good reasons. But if there is intention to become (regional) power we have to invest in and cultivate good relations with countries in our region- Asia Pacific to be specific.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jan 2012 11:13

Dancer who brought Bharatanatyam to Mao's China dies
Chinese dancer Zhang Jun, who brought Bharatnatyam and Kathak to Mao's China in the 1950s and inspired thousands to follow her passion for classical Indian culture over a celebrated, five decade-long teaching career, passed away after a long battle with cancer. She was 79.

Zhang first visited India as a curious 19-year-old in the early 1950s, when she was encouraged by the former Chinese Premier, Zhou Enlai, to study Indian dance and culture and serve as a bridge between the two newly founded young nations.

She later helped to found one of China's most celebrated dance troupes, the Oriental Song and Dance Ensemble, which still continues to travel across China and Asia, performing classical dance forms, and is famed in this country for the high technical skill of its elite members.

For Zhang, India became a lifelong, all-consuming passion to which she dedicated her life. She became a window to India for two generations of young Chinese, who would flock to her modest first-floor apartment in north Beijing to learn Bharatnatyam, Kathak and Odissi.

In India, Zhang met Uday Shankar, regarded as the father of modern Indian dance, and visited Indian schools.

On her return, she became an integral part of Zhou Enlai's project, which had gathered momentum after the 1955 Bandung Conference, and helped found the Oriental Song and Dance Ensemble in 1961.

Zhang became proficient in a range of dance forms, from Myanmar and Cambodia to Vietnam and India, performing for visiting heads of states and becoming one of China's most talented dancers.

Indian dance, though, was her biggest passion. She studied with Birju Maharaj and travelled to Kalakshetra in Chennai.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jan 2012 11:16

After 42 years, Indian Embassy gets a new hope in Beijing
The Indian Embassy in China on Tuesday moved to a sprawling, $10-million premises in the heart of the capital, getting, after 42 years, a modern new home which, officials said, was designed to address the growing demands of a fast-expanding bilateral relationship.

The expansive 13,500-square metre compound is a marked difference from the old property in the capital's Ritan Park area — a two-storey, old-fashioned and increasingly cramped wooden structure where Indian officials had moved into in 1969.

“As the relationship has grown, our functions as an embassy have also expanded,” Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar said.

Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo, who will travel to New Delhi next week for the 15th round of talks on the border dispute, is expected to attend a cultural performance at the new embassy on Wednesday evening to mark its opening.

A formal inauguration, to be presided over by an official from New Delhi, will be held later this year.

The old property, which India acquired on a 99-year lease and houses the ambassador's residence today too, would be used for other activities, Mr. Jaishankar said.

The embassy's move to a new location was long overdue, with India functioning out of a property that was acquired when diplomatic engagement was minimal. Chinese visitors to the Ritan Park compound were often surprised by the old-fashioned premises, where 29 diplomats, 33 other Indian staff members and 28 Chinese staff members worked.

The land for the new site was bought in 1989 for around $1 million on a 90-year lease. The new embassy is located in the central Liangmaqiao area, close to the United States and Israeli embassies and many office buildings.

The move from Ritan is the second time the Embassy's location has been changed. Before 1969, the embassy was in the foreign legation quarter near Tiananmen Square. It was damaged during the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), after which many embassies moved to designated diplomatic enclaves in the city.


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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 14 Jan 2012 13:02

India Must Learn to Assert - Bharat Karnad in The New Indian Express
Consider the latest turn of events regarding China. Beijing is on the back foot, wary of the situation going awry. US President Barack Obama has reoriented American military strategy to ‘pivot’ on East Asia. Major regional maritime powers — Japan, and Australia, are joining the US, the littoral states in South East Asia, and Vietnam and Indonesia in the South China Sea, to curtail the Chinese strategic space. This is the time, one would have thought, for New Delhi to join in cornering Beijing, not pandering to it. But, as usual, New Delhi genuflected. The Annual Defence Dialogue (ADD) was kept on track by the Indian government by accepting Chinese dictation on the constitution of the Indian military delegation. The Ministry of External Affairs’ justification for this backsliding even featured Chinese diplomatic lexicon. The dropping of Group Captain Mohonto Panging, operations head of the Sukhoi-30 squadron in Tezpur, the MEA explained, was the “mature” thing to do, thereby echoing the phrase — “show maturity” that Chinese spokespersons often use when advising India not to react to Chinese provocation. The defence ministry, after initially calling off the whole, meaningless, exercise, relented under pressure from the Prime Minister’s Office. If Beijing is allowed to establish substantial diplomatic precedent by not allowing Arunachalis into China because it claims Arunachal Pradesh as part of ‘southern Tibet’, then progressively the Indian title over that province will weaken and, in time, the fact that New Delhi accommodated Beijing will be cited by the latter as evidence of India conceding an enlarged China. This is the old Chinese imperial habit. Any act of friendliness by kingdoms in South East Asia led to the emperors of Qing and Ming dynasties, for example, to treat them as tributary states.

That Beijing acts superior is less the problem than India acting its vassal. How else to explain that every time Beijing sneezes, Delhi gets the shivers? Beating up Tibetans peacefully demanding freedom for their homeland outside the Chinese embassy in a supposedly democratic India, and weeding out ‘undesirables’ from lists of China-bound military Indian delegations on Beijing’s say-so, is bad symbolism, especially as China puts so much store by it. Pleasing Beijing for any reason is unlikely to advance any of India’s goals, least of all bring an early closure to the interminable border talks currently involving national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon and Chinese state councillor Dai Bingguo. But, this last, is not the priority; rather, according to Menon, it is “deepening communications”, “managing differences”, “building commonalities” and otherwise keeping the peaceful “process” of interaction alive. If strengthening of process is all that’s at stake then what’s on offer is more tunnel, not light at the end of it. In the event, vital national interests will be better served if India squarely joined all willing partners to strategically discomfit China as much as possible, and by any and all means, all the while mouthing self-serving platitudes and pieties that are the essence of Chinese diplomatese.

China is feeling the heat, and India should increase pressure on it. ADD is history, but it should lead to the MEA following a strictly reciprocal visa system. Hereafter, any Chinese Communist Party official or PLA officer who has served in Tibet should be barred from visiting India under any pretext. It will require New Delhi formally to take a stand which is implicit in its traditional position, namely, that Chinese ‘sovereignty’ over Tibet is untenable as long as Tibet is neither genuinely ‘autonomous’ nor vacated of the large and lethal PLA occupation forces stationed there. This will meet His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s basic conditions. But it will require New Delhi to show guts, and there’s the rub. One cannot remember the last time the Indian government stood up for India.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Yogi_G » 14 Jan 2012 13:28

SSridhar wrote:After 42 years, Indian Embassy gets a new hope in Beijing
The Indian Embassy in China on Tuesday moved to a sprawling, $10-million premises in the heart of the capital, getting, after 42 years, a modern new home which, officials said, was designed to address the growing demands of a fast-expanding bilateral relationship.

The expansive 13,500-square metre compound is a marked difference from the old property in the capital's Ritan Park area — a two-storey, old-fashioned and increasingly cramped wooden structure where Indian officials had moved into in 1969.

“As the relationship has grown, our functions as an embassy have also expanded,” Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar said.

Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo, who will travel to New Delhi next week for the 15th round of talks on the border dispute, is expected to attend a cultural performance at the new embassy on Wednesday evening to mark its opening.

A formal inauguration, to be presided over by an official from New Delhi, will be held later this year.

The old property, which India acquired on a 99-year lease and houses the ambassador's residence today too, would be used for other activities, Mr. Jaishankar said.

The embassy's move to a new location was long overdue, with India functioning out of a property that was acquired when diplomatic engagement was minimal. Chinese visitors to the Ritan Park compound were often surprised by the old-fashioned premises, where 29 diplomats, 33 other Indian staff members and 28 Chinese staff members worked.

The land for the new site was bought in 1989 for around $1 million on a 90-year lease. The new embassy is located in the central Liangmaqiao area, close to the United States and Israeli embassies and many office buildings.

The move from Ritan is the second time the Embassy's location has been changed. Before 1969, the embassy was in the foreign legation quarter near Tiananmen Square. It was damaged during the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), after which many embassies moved to designated diplomatic enclaves in the city.



I am sure much effort wud have gone into making the location bug-free. like the soviets did when they opened a new embassy in US and found several bugs/snooping devices put in by moles placed amidst the construction workers.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Purush » 14 Jan 2012 20:40

SSridhar wrote:The Annual Defence Dialogue (ADD) was kept on track by the Indian government by accepting Chinese dictation on the constitution of the Indian military delegation. The Ministry of External Affairs’ justification for this backsliding even featured Chinese diplomatic lexicon. The dropping of Group Captain Mohonto Panging, operations head of the Sukhoi-30 squadron in Tezpur, the MEA explained, was the “mature” thing to do, thereby echoing the phrase — “show maturity” that Chinese spokespersons often use when advising India not to react to Chinese provocation. The defence ministry, after initially calling off the whole, meaningless, exercise, relented under pressure from the Prime Minister’s Office.


Ugh.

Are some babus/ministers in the MEA or PMO on the chinese payroll? :evil:
Last edited by Purush on 14 Jan 2012 22:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby JE Menon » 14 Jan 2012 21:59

Excellent article from Karnad there...

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby harbans » 15 Jan 2012 00:14

We don't have the balls, that's a different matter. There are no responses available if you've bartered away your core interest. China's weak underbelly is it's claim on Tibet. It's overt aggression on our Northern borders is a result of that weakness. INdia won';t be taken seriously anywhere if we neglect that aspect. That's been our bane.


Been saying what Karnad has put for long..just day before had posted the above wrt dealing with Tibet in ref to Chinese bullying. These resolutions are still pending in the UN..and must be looked into.

1 October 1959

Resolution 1353 (XIV) called for "respect for the fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people and for their distinctive cultural and religious life." Adopted by 45 votes to nine, 26 abstentions; Britain abstained.

12 December 1961

Resolution 1723 (XVI) called for "the cessation of practices which deprive the Tibetan people of their fundamental human rights and freedom including their rights to self-determination." It also expressed "the hope that member states will make all possible efforts as appropriate towards achieving the purpose of the present resolution." Adopted by 56 votes to 11, with 29 abstentions; Britain (after initial doubts) approved.

December 1965

Resolution 2079 (XX) renewed the call for "the cessation of all practices which deprive the Tibetan people of the human rights and fundamental freedoms which they have always enjoyed." Adopted by 43 votes to 26, with 22 abstentions. On this occasion the Indian delegate accused the Chinese of trying "to obliterate the Tibetan people" and of suppression that "surpasses anything that colonialists have done in the past to the people they ruled as slaves." Britain supported the resolution.


This i had posted 2 years ago..

It simply is not possible for China not to have good relations with Pak. China after taking Tibet simply has no choice but to go for the Dharmic jugular. And it will build and divert waters of the major river systems for it's own purposes. China wants legitimacy over Tibet,which it cannot have till it rakes India up on the borders and uses Pak to contain India in a childish game. 60 years have proven that there is no minimalistic or maximalist position India can take to lever China. There is only one position and that is challenge China on it's claim to Tibet and raise the 1960 resolution in the UN asking CHina to provide the Tibetan people with a plebiscite. China has not fulfilled that resolution till date.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby shyamd » 15 Jan 2012 01:05

India has showed its cards - The alliance Aus, SE Asia Jap Taiwan. Let the rail roads be built from India to Malaysia. Tri forces base in Andamans for out of area operations and other bases in the region soon. Joint forces air force base in Kalaikunda. Give it a few more years to set up. No one is sleeping. We just dont want to rock the boat and ruin our growth. So for now we want peace and stability to focus on our growth, at the same time we are not going to stop our defence preparedness - we can all see the type of investments GoI is making.

India asked PRC to start buying more from india to sort out the deficit in trade. PRC refused. India told power co's to stop buying PRC equipment, we said we'll reduce tarriffs on Jap equipment instead so the price is the same. We are now going to cut trade with PRC - i think India upped tarrifs against PRC Iron ore imports and other moves. There is a quiet little battle going on.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby pgbhat » 16 Jan 2012 02:11

INDIA-CHINA: TRADE --- Himalayan Boulder
Indian businessmen encounter certain problems in China so severe that they could well be forgiven for disbelieving its economy is the world’s second biggest. Ask S.K. Jain of LNJ International, who in August 2009 entered into an agreement with a Chinese company, Tangshan Ganglu Iron and Steel Pvt. Ltd, for delivering 43,000 metric tonnes of iron ore fines. Two months later, the Korean-owned vessel MV OSM Arena left the Paradip port, Orissa, for Caofeidian in China with Jain’s cargo, undertaking to deliver it in 18 days—the time usually taken for the voyage.

As the stipulated date of delivery expired, Jain began to make inquiries and discovered that the Arena had docked at Tianjin—not Caofeidian—and a local Chinese company, whose owner enjoyed a clout among local officials and knew the Korean owner of the ship well, was trying to offload and take possession of the cargo. Shocked, Jain took recourse to legal assistance; months passed before a Chinese court agreed to release the cargo to him, subject to a payment of $4 million until the settlement of all counter-claims. And though these claims were subsequently dismissed, Jain claims the court hasn’t yet reimbursed his money. “What pains us most is the fact that we have not received any payment for the cargo shipped in 2009,” Jain told Outlook.
By contrast, it was good news for 12 Indian traders, who returned to India after a Chinese court decided on their deportation on charges of smuggling diamonds worth $ 7.3 million from Hong Kong into Shenzen, which is famous for processing diamonds. However, another 10 of their comrades were found guilty, and awarded prison sentences from three to six years. So, is China increasingly becoming a dangerous place for Indian businessmen? Or is it the case of Sino-phobic Indian media trumpeting stray cases of harassment, inevitable in any country?
The Chinese often employ such strong-arm tactics against their own countrymen. Incidents involving local toughs kidnapping defaulters are not uncommon. Since the disputes are not taken to officials—remember, no notarised documents can exist in an informal arrangement—negotiations with the defaulter take place as he languishes in the creditor’s custody. Obviously, this system is unequal and unjust, yet many Indian merchants willingly subscribe to the rules of the game and boast a thriving business.
The Indian media, in its jingoism, often ignores the converse situation: the harrowing task it must be for the Chinese to conduct business here. Talk to Qiu Shaoling, marketing head of ZTE, a leading Chinese telecom firm, and he’d tell you that Indians want to buy cheap but never hesitate to demand all the features and service of high-end products. “A lot of time also gets wasted in securing clearance from officialdom to start work in India,” says Qui. Similarly, Xian Electronics Engineering Company’s Chen Tao complains about the delay in getting the required visa for working and opening a representative office in India. Chinese company representatives feel that Indian officials are unduly suspicious about their intent and the ensuing trust deficit dogs every step of their securing official approval of any kind.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Kukreja » 16 Jan 2012 04:57


theres a great comment at the end of the article directed at the moron who wrote it which sums up my initial reaction to it:
radhanath varadan wrote:you must be out of your mind to compare red tape in india with thugs kidnapping business people in china. and then you go on to suggest it has to do with indian media "jingoism." really?

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Roperia » 16 Jan 2012 14:17

A brilliant piece by Dai Bingguo (State Councillor of the People's Republic of China) in The Hindu. The State Councillor met with all our NSA's since Mr. Brajesh Mishra and it is believed that he is retiring with the current leadership in 2012, probably making this his last visit to India.

A brighter future when China and India work hand in hand

I am delighted to come back to the beautiful metropolis of New Delhi and join my Indian colleagues for the 15th meeting of the Special Representatives on the China-India boundary question. Every time I return, I am deeply impressed by the strong economic growth and remarkable progress India has achieved.


In the mid-1950s, China and India, in response to the call of the time, jointly initiated the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, or the Panchsheel. Today, these five principles are still shining with strong vitality. The world is undergoing drastic and profound changes. China and India, both ancient civilisations and major developing countries whose combined population accounts for nearly two-fifths of the world's total, once again responded to the call of our time. Our two countries have seized the historic opportunity of economic globalisation and achieved fast development. We are now the two largest emerging countries in the world and play increasingly important roles in regional and international affairs.

I am happy to note that since the beginning of the new century, the China-India Strategic and Cooperative Partnership for Peace and Prosperity has continued to grow rapidly, and our friendly cooperation has yielded fruitful results. The trade volume between our two countries has grown from $2.9 billion in 2000 to $61.7 billion in 2010, a 20-fold increase in 10 years. We speak with one voice and enjoy increasingly closer coordination and collaboration in multilateral mechanisms and in tackling global challenges. The year 2011 was the ‘Year of China-India Exchanges.' The first bilateral Strategic Economic Dialogue was held, and 500 Indian youths visited China. Once again, these diverse exchanges got our relations off to a good start in the second decade of the 21st century. China-India relations have entered a fast track of growth.

Our Indian friends may have confidence in China's tremendous sentiment of friendship towards India. While working hard to develop itself, China is fully committed to developing long-term friendship and cooperation with India. It is our genuine hope that India will enjoy prosperity and its people, happiness. There does not exist such a thing as China's attempt to “attack India” or “suppress India's development.” China will remain committed to the path of peaceful development. It will develop itself by upholding world peace and contribute to world peace through its development. We will grow on the basis of our own efforts, reform and innovation; at the same time, we will remain open to the outside world and learn from other countries. We will fully embrace economic globalisation and seek mutual benefit and common development with other countries. We will continue to work with the international community to promote the building of a harmonious world of enduring peace and common prosperity.

China's conviction to peaceful development is not without foundation. It is rooted in the fine Chinese culture and tradition. Peaceful development is not an act of impulse. It came into being in the course of reform and opening-up and is firmly supported by China's state policy and strategy. It is not a policy of expediency. Peaceful development is a rational, strategic choice made in line with the trends of our time and China's basic condition. Even when China becomes truly developed in the future, it will remain committed to the path of peaceful development.

Back in 1988, Deng Xiaoping told Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi that no genuine Asia-Pacific century or Asian century would come without the development of China, India and other developing countries. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh also observed that when India and China speak with one voice, the world will listen. These analyses of insight point to the tremendous importance of, and necessity for, China and India developing ourselves well and advancing relations between us. For, this is crucial not only to our two countries but also to Asia and the whole world that we both live in. We need to guide and promote the growth of China-India relations with the concept of peaceful development. We need to view each other's development in a positive light and regard each other as major partners and friends, not rivals. We always need to be each other's good neighbour, good friend and good partner. As a man in his seventies, I truly hope that our children and children's children will forever live in peace, friendship and cooperation.

We are now in the second decade of the 21st century. [color=#0000FF]Looking ahead, China-India relations have huge potential and broad space for cooperation. What we face is a golden period to grow China-India relations. The world has enough space for China and India to achieve common development, as there are so many areas for us to work together[color=#0000FF]. As neighbours and two big countries with a combined population of 2.5 billion, China and India can join hands, seize the historic opportunity, and work together to further advance our friendship and cooperation. Together, we will bring benefits to our two countries, two peoples and the whole mankind.

(Dai Bingguo is State Councillor of the People's Republic of China)

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Virupaksha » 16 Jan 2012 14:32

All flowery praise, substance (possibly because of influence) zero.
Frankly do not see any need for fully quoting this fluff piece.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Roperia » 16 Jan 2012 14:45

Virupaksha wrote:All flowery praise, substance (possibly because of influence) zero.
Frankly do not see any need for fully quoting this fluff piece.


I'm sorry, I couldn't understand your point. Quoting from wiki -He is
director of general office of National Security Leadership Group of the CPC Central Committee, in which he serves in the capacity as a national security advisor to the President.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Virupaksha » 16 Jan 2012 14:50

So? is there ANYTHING of substance in what you have quoted?

and he is due to retire which makes his influence waning. BS from Sherlock Holmes is also BS. Writing a lyrical prose on world peace doesnt make something worthwhile.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Roperia » 16 Jan 2012 15:03

Virupaksha wrote:So? is there ANYTHING of substance in what you have quoted?

and he is due to retire which makes his influence waning. BS from Sherlock Holmes is also BS. Writing a lyrical prose on world peace doesnt make something worthwhile.


First, I was trying to convey that he has enormous influence unlike what you said
because of influence) zero
. I think that statements of senior leadership carry value and reflect the long term vision.

Yes, you may disagree and I accept that you can be totally right as well!

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Suppiah » 16 Jan 2012 16:20

If Dai Bingguo wanted to influence public opinion in India amongst the well heeled, he should not write in Chindu, might as well write in Xinhua / People's Daily / CPM Mouthpiece. He should be writing in some journal that is not seen as propaganda mouthpiece of CPM/PRC by its own major shareholders not to speak of most intelligent Indians..so he has wasted his time.

If his intentions are not honest then of course, it is entirely understandable that he chooses Chindu (or is it the other way around?)

Anyway we can also match his flowery words - get our 'leader of global Tamils' MK to match him word for word with flowery phrases..and then they can go back to doing what they have been doing - arming fanatic barbarian terrorists in TSPA with nukes and we should go and do what we should be doing - protecting our interests and not surrendering.

Bit of taqqiya is no harm done..

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jan 2012 08:24

Dai Bingguo is just back from his Sitara award given by the taller-than-the-tallest friend. He is back to the Chinese tradition of professing peace and best wishes to us so as to lull us into complacency ahead of the talks. Nothing more needs to be read into this article.

BTW, does Shiv Shankar Menon get to pen a similar article in People's Daily for example ? Shri Jaishankar must take up media access issue with the Chinese government.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jan 2012 09:29

India-China Special Representative Talks: Focus on Trust Building - IDSA Comment by R.N. Das
Most CBMs agreed upon hitherto have been relating to the army and air force and the maritime domain has not been included so far. At a time when the navies of the two countries are poised to expand beyond their territorial waters thus offering possibilities for both conflict and cooperation, it is only prudent that CBMs also be evolved between the navies of the two countries. In recent times China has been active in the Indian Ocean and India in the Asia-Pacific. Only in September last year the Financial Times had reported that the Indian naval ship Airawat was challenged by the Chinese Navy in the South China Sea. In view of the Indian Navy’s increasing engagement in the Asia-Pacific and particularly in view of ONGC Videsh’s oil and natural gas exploration bids in the disputed and sensitive South China Sea, there is an imperative need for Naval CBMs between the two countries. Recently, the Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma broached the idea of a ‘hot line’ between the two naval headquarters.

The border talks have so far proceeded at a snail’s pace. Although not much is expected from this round of border talks, some incremental forward movement cannot be ruled out in terms of creating additional institutional mechanisms to deal with frequent border transgressions from the Chinese side.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jan 2012 10:05

India, China to setup working mechanism for order management - The Hindu
A day after beginning talks on the boundary question, India and China on Tuesday agreed to set up a working mechanism on border management to deal with important affairs related to maintaining peace and tranquillity in the border areas.

The working mechanism, mooted by Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, was finalised here at the conclusion of the 15th meeting of the Special Representatives (SR) on the boundary question — National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon and Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo.

The agreement to establish the “Working Mechanism for Consultation and Coordination on India-China Border Affairs'' was signed by India's Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar and China's Assistant Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin.

It will “undertake other tasks that are mutually agreed upon by the two sides, but will not discuss resolution of the Boundary Question or affect the Special Representatives Mechanism.''

The working mechanism will “study ways and means to conduct and strengthen exchanges and cooperation between military personnel and establishments of the two sides in the border areas.''

According to the text of the agreement, the working mechanism “will explore the possibility of cooperation in the border areas that are agreed upon by the two sides.''

It will be headed by a joint secretary-level officer from the Ministry of External Affairs and a Director General-level officer from the Chinese Foreign Ministry and will comprise diplomatic and military officials of the two sides.

“The Working Mechanism will address issues and situations that may arise in the border areas that affect the maintenance of peace and tranquillity and will work actively towards maintaining the friendly atmosphere between the two countries,'' according to the text of the agreement, released by the External Affairs Ministry.

The working mechanism will hold consultations once or twice every year, alternately in India and China. Emergency consultations, if required, may be convened after mutual agreement.

Mr. Dai said on Monday that Sino-Indian ties have made “substantial progress'' and “can work miracles'' together. {Mr. Dai must realize that we see through his game of plattitudes, gratuitous advice, and diplomatic mumbo-jumbo} He observed that the two sides have “scaled much height'' and “produced some results'' on the framework for settlement of boundary issue.

The two sides expressed their belief in respecting and abiding by the Line of Actual Control, pending a resolution of the boundary question. They noted that strengthening peace and tranquillity on the India-China border areas was “very significant'' for enhancing mutual trust and security between the two countries, for resolving the boundary question at an early date and for building the India-China strategic and cooperative partnership.

While establishing the working mechanism, the two sides aimed for timely communication of information on the border situation, for appropriately handling border incidents and for earnestly undertaking other cooperation activities in the border areas.

During the two-day talks, the Special Representatives also agreed to prepare a joint record on the progress made so far on the border question.

“Making a positive appraisal of the current state of bilateral relations, the SRs noted the importance of regular high-level exchanges and strengthened cooperation across different areas between the two countries,'' an External Affairs Ministry statement said here.


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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby member_21708 » 18 Jan 2012 10:59

China banking on Pakistan for India intel?
Is there a tie-up between Chinese and Pakistani agencies to share intelligence on India?

There is mounting evidence within the Indian intelligence agencies that suggests that China's ministry of state security (MSS) has outsourced collection of vital intelligence including aspects of Tibetan activity in India from Pakistan's ISI as the latter had better penetration in the sub-continent.

Government sources said intelligence inputs indicated that there was institutionalised tie-up between the two agencies and some five structured meetings at high official level had taken place in the past two years with India figuring in the dialogue. This information has been shared with top officials in the UPA government.

According to available inputs, ISI will also share intelligence on India with their Chinese counterparts as it has known access in restive regions of India including in the north eastern states.

Beijing's key interest is in the Dalai Lama set-up and is closely watching the Indian involvement in the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamsala. With Bangladesh not allowing NE insurgent groups to target India from its territory and Myanmar making similar noises, insurgents are getting monetary and logistics support from Yunan province in south China.

However, it is the flip-side of this tie-up that is worrying India. A section of the Indian intelligence community feels that ISI could exacerbate tensions with China by exaggerating New Delhi's role in the Tibetan movement. Even though India has little to do with the Tibetan set-up, the perception is that it is the ISI, which has made the MSS suspicious of India's involvement.

After the 2008 Lhasa riots, Beijing has been very sensitive about the Tibet issue. Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao last week extracted a commitment from Nepal on not allowing any Tibetan activity in the erstwhile kingdom.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 98640.aspx

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Suppiah » 18 Jan 2012 17:07

Why would China need the ISI when they have so many commie puppets in this country?

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2012 17:21

Suppiah wrote:If Dai Bingguo wanted to influence public opinion in India amongst the well heeled, he should not write in Chindu, might as well write in Xinhua / People's Daily / CPM Mouthpiece. He should be writing in some journal that is not seen as propaganda mouthpiece of CPM/PRC by its own major shareholders not to speak of most intelligent Indians..so he has wasted his time.



Anyone, Chinese or not, can get influence in India by doing an item number with Katrina Kaif. All this Hindu-Chindu business is rubbish :mrgreen:

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby shyamd » 18 Jan 2012 18:27

vikramd wrote:China banking on Pakistan for India intel?
However, it is the flip-side of this tie-up that is worrying India. A section of the Indian intelligence community feels that ISI could exacerbate tensions with China by exaggerating New Delhi's role in the Tibetan movement. Even though India has little to do with the Tibetan set-up, the perception is that it is the ISI, which has made the MSS suspicious of India's involvement.

After the 2008 Lhasa riots, Beijing has been very sensitive about the Tibet issue. Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao last week extracted a commitment from Nepal on not allowing any Tibetan activity in the erstwhile kingdom.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 98640.aspx

Message delivered to PRC intel/political set up - i.e. don't trust them. In 2008 uprising, they actually blamed INdia and the Tibetan intel set up that organised it. Internal review by the Guanbou found that there was no desi involvement.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jan 2012 18:35


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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jan 2012 16:17

China's Rail Network to Touch India's Border - Ananth Krishnan in The Hindu

China has announced it will accelerate plans to expand a railway network in Tibet to reach two towns near the border with India and will also consider building a railway line to Nepal, officials said this week.

New railway lines from Lhasa to Xigaze (Shigatse in Tibetan) and the town of Nyingchi, which lies in a prefecture bordering Arunachal Pradesh, will be built as key projects under a five-year development plan (2011-15) for the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), which was announced on Wednesday.

Separately, the State-run Xinhua news agency carried a report indicating that the construction of a railway line from Tibet to Nepal was discussed during Premier Wen Jiabao's visit last week to Kathmandu.

“The railway which will join Nepal and the Tibet Autonomous Region of China will further strengthen ties between the two countries,” Xinhua quoted Nepal President Ram Baran Yadav as saying.

The statement said the extension of the Qinghai-Tibet railway line, which currently ends in Lhasa, to Xigaze would be completed by 2015. Construction of another line from Lhasa to Nyingchi will also begin under the five-year plan.


Shigatse is quite close to the Siliguri Chicken's neck corridor.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby svinayak » 20 Jan 2012 05:45

Image

The Limits of the Pakistan-China Alliance

Abstract: After the U.S. raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan in May 2011, Pakistani political leaders played up their country’s relations with China, touting Beijing as an alternative partner to Washington. But China’s concerns over Pakistan’s future stability will likely limit the extent to which it will help Pakistan out of its economic difficulties. While China has an interest in maintaining strong security ties with Pakistan, the economic relationship is not very extensive and the notion that Chinese ties could serve as a replacement for U.S. ties is far-fetched. Instead of wringing hands over Chinese influence on Pakistan, the U.S. should seek cooperation from Beijing in encouraging a more stable and prosperous Pakistan—which will benefit all parties involved.
In the wake of the U.S. raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound last May and deteriorating relations between Islamabad and Washington, Pakistani leaders have sought to play up their country’s relations with China, touting Beijing as an alternative partner to Washington. However, China’s concerns about the future stability and development of Pakistan will limit the extent to which China will bail Pakistan out of its current economic difficulties, and the degree to which China will seek to drive a wedge between Islamabad and Washington.
Chinese security interests in Pakistan are driven primarily by China’s desire to contain India. Beijing has built up Pakistan’s conventional military as well as nuclear and missile capabilities over the years to help keep India off balance and focused on threats emanating from Pakistan. China’s concrete economic and political interests in Pakistan itself are not that extensive. China’s economic commitment to Pakistan, for instance, is not especially impressive in size and has shown clear limits. China has shown little interest in propping up Pakistan’s economy and has not provided substantial economic aid, even during times of need.


Image

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby Airavat » 20 Jan 2012 08:21

Islamophobia in China: Violence Breaks Out in Xinjiang

What happened in Xinjiang? The state claimed that police officers confronted a group of fifteen men who had kidnapped two people, and the kidnappers were Muslim extremists or terrorists off to “jihadist training” across the border. Government media sources and spokespeople refuse to specify the ethnic origins of the fifteen. One police officer was also killed. Non-state media sources are reporting that this group was all Uighur, included children, and was attempting to escape Chinese repression. Other members of the group were taken into custody, and their fates are unknown.

As for Ningxia? Taoshan villagers raised USD $127 000 to renovate their mosque. After Friday prayers, the day before the opening ceremony, one hundred villagers faced one thousand soldiers and police officers. Three guesses how that went. The two confirmed dead are reported to have been elderly. This was so unexpected and unprecedented in this area that it sends a message of the state cracking down hard. That’s particularly so given that the soldiers and officers weren’t sent out until the mosque was completed, and all the more so following on immediately from the Uighur deaths.

A major difference between what happened here and what happened in Xinjiang is that the Taoshan Muslims, who say they’ve never experienced religious persecution before, are Hui. China’s biggest Muslim ethnicity, the Chinese-speaking Hui have been far better treated and tolerated by the state than any other Muslim group as they have been considered more properly Chinese – or at least they have been since the mid-twentieth century state classification of ethnic groups.

Historically, then, China has not been kind to Muslim minorities, and there have been fatal Han/Uighur clashes in recent years, notably in Urumqi in 2009 when some Uighur people attacked Han Chinese, followed by a counterattack.

It’s hard to keep track of what’s going on for Hui, Uighur, and other Muslim ethnic groups in China, simply because the state is keeping such a tight lid on reports of the true stories. From what’s leaking through, it’s clear that the world should be keeping a sharp eye out, because existing ethnic divisions are only becoming more fraught in China.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby tejas » 20 Jan 2012 10:10

Contours of a possible Indian riposte to Chinese aggressiveness - IDSA Policy Brief


Outstanding article. Very few desi analysts seem to to have the cajones as this author. India needs many more like him.

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Re: People's Republic of China, Dec. 27 2011

Postby krisna » 20 Jan 2012 23:38

China's land grab alchemy
The most contentious issue today in China, as has been true for the past decade, is land appropriation. What we just witnessed in Wukan, with peasants organizing to defend their land and livelihood, has occurred frequently over the past decade, and will continue unabated, but with little effect, in the next.


In 2001, I spent several months traveling around China – Shenyang, Jilin, Changchun, Chongqing, and Zhengzhou – interviewing villagers, and their main complaint was losing their land without fair and adequate compensation. But their complaints were also individual and local, and different individuals employed different strategies – suing the government in local courts, petitioning for the intervention of higher authorities (shangfang), petitioning even higher authorities (Falun Gong and underground Christianity), but generally just drinking a lot and cursing corrupt officials.

Believe it or not, Chinese officials are human too, and they are driven by the same goals and concerns as bureaucrats and managers operating in any society. They want to protect their position, and rise within the hierarchy by pleasing their superiors. Above all, they’re risk adverse.

And the mandarins in Beijing have enough spies (official media reporters) around the country to know how explosive the land grab issue is in China, and they’ve read enough history to know that it’s this spark that has ignited many an internal rebellion.
:)
The Party’s authority and legitimacy are predicated on guaranteeing at least 8 percent GDP growth a year, and economic growth is the mandate of all Party officials. If you’re Ningbo or Yantai or any large Chinese urban center with an entrepreneurial population and large resources then that’s not a problem. But if you’re a rural township of subsistence farmers then your best shot at producing the numbers you need to win praise and promotion is to grab that worthless land and put a factory or a condo on it. The magic of economic statistics is that, even if the factory or condo is empty, the value of land shoots up, and so does your career prospects. Remember ghost towns and empty malls.

Land grabbing is the Chinese equivalent of alchemy, and this quick immediate economic fix is just too addictive for local officials to say no to. This is a problem not just commonplace in the villages, but everywhere in China.

Consider the Chinese public school system, which focuses on test scores and college enrollment statistics. The system destroys students’ creativity and curiosity, independence and imagination, but as long as you get eighty percent of your students into tier one colleges you’re promoted and rewarded as a brilliant educator – just like magic!


No official was arrested because of the Wukan uprising. That’s because, as everyone knows in China, those officials were just doing their job.


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