Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

[Prem]

Thought process of average rational human is build up with human interaction and experiences. Poaqqs on the other hand have collective dogmatic thinking immune to many human factors. All of their overtues etc ought to be observed from this dogmatic point of view. Hudna is no substitue for internationally recognized treaty among the civilized nations of the world. Paki indvidual and nation behaviour of last few decades vouch for precaution to be observed while dealing with Poaqasurs. They have not kept a single obligation on which they signed for.From Zinnha to Zardari, its all about Makkari, Individual as well Sarkari.

[Agnimitra]

^^^^ the well-dressed pakis want something from India and is grinning (temporarily) at us in a creepy, ingratiating way. IMO, the entire gamut of kiss-assery is revealing.

From Tharoor's article:

An official of the Punjab chief minister’s media cell took us on a midnight drive to the Anarkali area and discussed politics over steaming cups of salty Kashmiri pink tea.

Tharoor surely chose his words in writing his piece.

[RajeshA]

HN, I dont understand the need for that article from Econ Times. The US is playing the India card to make the TSP behave and once TSP sees the ligh tit will be all hunky dory between the two. While pontifcating about how relations should not be zer-sum games, the US has been playing the zero-sum game between India and TSP.
Instead of telling the visitor to stuff it they are rolling the red carpet.

ramana garu,

what if India does not want to deal with Pakistan alone? GoI may think that it is in India's interest to keep USA in Pakistan's calculus. They may think, as long as Pakistan deals with USA, India another player at the tripartite table which can swing Pakistan's behavior to more moderation.

If USA loses Pakistan, then India would have to deal with the Sino-Pak Axis alone! The point is that USA would most probably never be attacking a nuclear-armed Pakistan, or China, for that matter. India would have to deal with the axis alone. And America would just retreat back over the ocean, with only loss of influence but not much in terms of security loss. India would be left alone with China and Pakistan on the tripartite table, to India's disadvantage.

India's thinking may be that USA may not use its military power against Pakistan, but at least it would use its diplomatic weight against Pakistani adventurism. This America can do only if America is kept in Pakistan as a power-broker. GoI is doing all the needful to keep America a player in Pakistan, even if it involves spiting Pakistan by allowing the visit of Marc Grossmann to India.

Just my reading of the leaves!

[hnair]

ramanaji, I was commenting on Dr Tharoor's visit, not the Proconsul-bahadur who is swinging by.

Carl-saar,

[Cosmo_R]

Shashi Tharoor on his Pakistan visit:

......

I hope Tharoor is not oblivious to the irony in his article. He speaks about being treated graciously by Najam Sethi who lives in a fortified home in a self imposed exile. Who is Sethi hiding from? How would Tharoor be treated by people who Sethi is hiding from?

He's oblivious. I'm sure you've already seen this:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 83154.aspx

"..... It reminded me of a story the late Mani Dixit used to tell about his time in Pakistan, when he visited a Pakistani diplomat at his home. He was introduced to the couple’s young son as a visitor from India. The child said an obedient ‘hello’ and then started running around a startled Dixit shouting “Hindustani kutta, Hindustani kutta!” The embarrassed parents hurried him out of the room and apologised profusely to Dixit."

Behind Tharoor's back, it's all kutta stuff.

They pull this stuff off every time.

[Philip]

Gen.Bandicoot is playing true to form.Rats/rodents always leave the sinking ship first.They can "smell" defeat before anyone else and are off,away to flee another day too! He also knows that his arrival in indecent haste right now,would trigger off some unpleasant consequences for him,as the army is battling the civilians and will not be able to help him totally and openly right now,as they are enmeshed in this battle to exercise the right,overt or covert,to control the country.His biggest rival however is going to be Gen.Kill-any,who is a vulture in comparison with the bandicoot,willing to patiently wait until the fruit drops into his hand.The vulture is waiting in the wings to strike at the opportune moment,shooting from the SC/CJ's shoulder,failing which he will follow the Paki army's time tested way.

[shiv]

That Tharoor article reads like a thank you note to his hosts in Shitland. The only thing of note is that he expects Imran Khan to do well.

[Pranav]

In short, Tharoor spoke to India's "Pakistani-electorate"

If India wants to have any influence over the course of events in Pak, creation of such constituencies is essential. However one needs to be much more systematic and have lines of communication with all power centers in all regional and ethnic groups.

[Pranav]

Behind Tharoor's back, it's all kutta stuff.

They pull this stuff off every time.

True, true. But then you develop a wide range of contacts and some of them may turn out to be useful, to varying degrees. Perhaps for a suitable quid pro quo.

[Airavat]

Fake army general dupes Pakistanis

Maqsood Shah, an administrator at a hospital, was nabbed in Malir cantonment as he strolled in while wearing the uniform of a lieutenant general. The police have confiscated an AK-47 rifle, a Blackberry and a car from Shah’s possession. “He didn’t spare anyone. He called up provincial ministers, MQM leaders and Local Government Minister Agha Siraj Durrani, claiming that he was a general and that he should be obliged."

The imposter even claimed that he would soon be the commander of the 5 corps Headquarters. Using the name of General Imtiaz, he forced an income tax officer to refund Rs180,000 that the hospital had paid.

[abhishek_sharma]

From Ahmed Rashid in Financial Times

Pakistan urgently needs stability

Pakistan’s deepening political crisis has escalated dramatically, with the Supreme Court initiating contempt proceedings against Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani. The judgement could lead to the dismissal of Mr Gilani and eventually President Asif Ali Zardari, as the army appears to be giving full backing to the courts.

Since the 1950s every political crisis Pakistan has faced has been a result of civilians trying to wrest power and control from the military. This crisis is no different except for one important aspect – the military has no intention of seizing power. Instead it has allied with the Supreme Court in an attempt to get rid of a government that is widely perceived to be corrupt and irresponsible.

But in an era when hope of democracy is spreading through the Arab Muslim world and powerful armies in countries such as Thailand and Turkey have learnt to live under civilian control, Pakistan is an ongoing tragedy. Its military refuses to give up its huge stake in the economy and its privileges, while its politicians refuse to govern wisely or honestly and decline to carry out basic economic reforms such as taxing themselves.

The military cannot afford a coup now, nor do they need one. Once the courts order the expected dismissal of Mr Gilani and perhaps Mr Zardari, the army and opposition politicians can mount relentless pressure on the two leaders to accept the court’s verdicts and resign. What would follow would be an interim government followed by general elections within three months. That may not be such a bad thing but the tragedy is that nothing is in place to prevent such a crisis occurring again and again.

I don't have access to full article.

[Sri]

Fake army general dupes Pakistanis

Maqsood Shah, an administrator at a hospital, was nabbed in Malir cantonment as he strolled in while wearing the uniform of a lieutenant general. The police have confiscated an AK-47 rifle, a Blackberry and a car from Shah’s possession. “He didn’t spare anyone. He called up provincial ministers, MQM leaders and Local Government Minister Agha Siraj Durrani, claiming that he was a general and that he should be obliged."

The imposter even claimed that he would soon be the commander of the 5 corps Headquarters. Using the name of General Imtiaz, he forced an income tax officer to refund Rs180,000 that the hospital had paid.

Reminds me of Saki's 'Capt Patch'

[RCase]

Came across this one ...

In India government decides longevity of COAS and in Pakistan COAS decides longevity of government!

[chetak]

If any one thought that the nobel "piece" prize was a CT, think again.


Pak PM discusses Nobel Peace Prize with Indian MPs

He recalled his meetings with Dr Singh at Sharm-el-Sheikh in Egypt, Thimpu in Bhutan, Mohali and the Maldives on the sidelines of the last SAARC Summit.

Referring to his visit to Mohali last year to watch the semi-final of the cricket World Cup between India and Pakistan, Gilani recalled his meeting with Congress president Sonia Gandhi and other top Indian leaders.

These interactions "created an enabling environment" that paved the way for a meaningful dialogue process, he said.

Aiyar and Sinha told Gilani that uninterrupted dialogue can bring peace and stability to both countries on a durable basis.
Such a development "could entitle both the prime ministers for a Nobel Peace Prize," they were quoted as saying.

Gilani said it was his "most cherished dream to see Pakistan and India moving forward towards friendly, cooperative and good neighbourly relations".

India and Pakistan can move towards good neighbourly relations "only through constructive engagement," he remarked.

"It is no doubt a slow but incremental process which needs careful diplomatic handling from both sides," Gilani said.

[Neela]

Thought process of average rational human is build up with human interaction and experiences. Poaqqs on the other hand have collective dogmatic thinking immune to many human factors. All of their overtues etc ought to be observed from this dogmatic point of view. Hudna is no substitue for internationally recognized treaty among the civilized nations of the world. Paki indvidual and nation behaviour of last few decades vouch for precaution to be observed while dealing with Poaqasurs. They have not kept a single obligation on which they signed for.From Zinnha to Zardari, its all about Makkari, Individual as well Sarkari.

Been thinking about this and did some psyanalysis. Still formulating it but here it is anyway.
See, there is something about humans that make them point to extraneous things as justification for a crime/bad thing. And if that extraneous thing can even be vaguely related to religious texts, more heinous the crime.

Pakis have always gotten away with rape and murder, let alone violating treaties.. They know that their own and others view this as a crime. They even know it themselves. But to suppress the guilt, they point to Islam - the extraneous thing as their justification. Kafirs primarily are their victims. How many times have you seen the headlines where the main reason was that a Kfir disrespected MOhammed or Quran was torn. I strongly suspect that this is usually the excuse given after the
the crime was committed by "pure" muslims .

But we have also seen people say that Islam does not allow this. This I think is where Arap / feudal bravery ,no back pedalling shit behaviour mixes and produces a deadly concoction. Bravery and HnD is seen as a big thing in Arap world I guess. So when someone says Islam does not allow this - he could be called a pussy and then be told "Hey cowardly pussy, Islam DOES allow this .see section 14.3 blah blah " Now , the person who said this is somehow considered a better protector of faith. I cannot explain this but this is a how I perceive it.

So what happens in all this - the protectors of the faith ., the "pure" Muslims continue to do more heinous stuff - killing of Shias, Ahmedis etc , the excuse is that the Quran says so and anyone who dares question this behaviour is not a follower. A closed loop . This closed loop , for the pure Muslims, is hope that purer Islam is being followed. They keep chasing this mirage while in the process, continue to their devilish ways - and always pointing to Islam as the reason. Isn#t this what happened in TSP since Zia openly started imposing Islamic ways.?

Sorry for this but I am appalled at the levels of human degradation in Pakistan. I wanted an explanation as to why Pakis debase themselves so much and this is what my theory is.

[shiv]

Aiyar and Sinha told Gilani that uninterrupted dialogue can bring peace and stability to both countries on a durable basis.
Such a development "could entitle both the prime ministers for a Nobel Peace Prize," they were quoted as saying.

And above all, gora aadmi would have said "shabaash!" - the highest honor of the colonised mind, the mental slave.

Of course we don't believe everything that Pakis say, the liars that they are. But in this case we make an exception and take it to be true.

[Altair]

That Tharoor article reads like a thank you note to his hosts in Shitland. The only thing of note is that he expects Imran Khan to do well.

shiv
Tharoor and Imran Khan have many common friends in diplomatic circles both at UN and other nations. They might have even dated the same women if you get my drift.

[pankajs]

US should not push Pak to go after militants: Khar

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s ties with the United States remain on hold following a Nato cross-border air attack, its foreign minister said on Thursday, and Washington should not push Islamabad to go after militant groups or bring them to the Afghan peace process.

“Now that the re-evaluation process is under way as we speak, so till the time that that re-evaluation process is not complete, we cannot start the re-engagement,” Hina Rabbani Khar said in an interview on Thursday.

Pakistan argues that the United States needs to be patient and gain a greater understanding of the region’s complexities before acting, and that pressure would only hurt efforts to pacify Afghanistan.

“Push is never wise. I think that every country must be allowed to develop their own strategy and their own timing,” said a confident-sounding Ms Khar, stressing that another incursion by Nato or the United States would be harmful.

“What is unacceptable to Pakistan is to have any troops on the ground. What is unacceptable to Pakistan is not to respect the inviolability of our borders,” she said. “All of these things make it more difficult for us to be an effective partner.”

While the United States is expected to keep a modest military presence in Afghanistan beyond 2014, all of President Barack Obama’s ‘surge’ troops will be home by fall and the administration — looking to refocus on domestic priorities in a presidential election year — is exploring further reductions.

Ms Khar said the United States should take a closer look at realities on the ground in Afghanistan, where the Kabul government is hoping to make security forces more effective before western combat troops are due home by the end of 2014.

She said: “They need to ensure that they are bound by ground realities and not artificial lines of any type, timelines or anything else.”

[chetak]

US should not push Pak to go after militants: Khar

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s ties with the United States remain on hold following a Nato cross-border air attack, its foreign minister said on Thursday, and Washington should not push Islamabad to go after militant groups or bring them to the Afghan peace process.

“Now that the re-evaluation process is under way as we speak, so till the time that that re-evaluation process is not complete, we cannot start the re-engagement,” Hina Rabbani Khar said in an interview on Thursday.

Pakistan argues that the United States needs to be patient and gain a greater understanding of the region’s complexities before acting, and that pressure would only hurt efforts to pacify Afghanistan.

“Push is never wise. I think that every country must be allowed to develop their own strategy and their own timing,” said a confident-sounding Ms Khar, stressing that another incursion by Nato or the United States would be harmful.

“What is unacceptable to Pakistan is to have any troops on the ground. What is unacceptable to Pakistan is not to respect the inviolability of our borders,” she said. “All of these things make it more difficult for us to be an effective partner.”

While the United States is expected to keep a modest military presence in Afghanistan beyond 2014, all of President Barack Obama’s ‘surge’ troops will be home by fall and the administration — looking to refocus on domestic priorities in a presidential election year — is exploring further reductions.

Ms Khar said the United States should take a closer look at realities on the ground in Afghanistan, where the Kabul government is hoping to make security forces more effective before western combat troops are due home by the end of 2014.

She said: “They need to ensure that they are bound by ground realities and not artificial lines of any type, timelines or anything else.”

Having been put through the meat grinder, the bimbo has at least learned the jargon.

[Kati]

Norway security chief quits in Pakistan agents row
By Gwladys Fouche
Jan 19, 2012
(Reuters) - Norway's internal security chief resigned late on Wednesday after revealing confidential information that the country had intelligence agents in Pakistan, government officials said.


http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/01/1 ... 2H20120119

[CRamS]

US should not push Pak to go after militants: Khar

Pakistan argues that the United States needs to be patient and gain a greater understanding of the region’s complexities before acting, and that pressure would only hurt efforts to pacify Afghanistan.

In US state dept and think tank language speak, this means this big baaad India is a "threat" to TSP, and hence US must allow TSP some pigLeTs and not mix up pigLeTs with the "evil", "mighty" Al Queda that is waging war against western Christendom and TSP is an all-lie in this crusade.

On Tharoor articel:

Guys, he is not telling anything new, and he is showing this naive propensity of mixing inter personal relations with inter state relations. Furthermore, in general, group think is much different from how individuals behave. I have come across any number of TSPians here in US who are quite normal and difficult to blow away their presence. What has that got to do with institutional thinking?

In US, individual whites are quite magnanimous, but as a group, look at how they view the world. Likewise, individually, us SDREs get along quite well with many-a-whites, but in dinner parties, one sees profuse frustration at gora slights. So if Tharoor & his deracinated Pandit wife want to forget ethnic cleansing of Pandits from J&K and enjoy Mughal cusine with TSP RAPEs in Lahore and commiserate about "shared values & culture" in shudh Oxford English, I say good riddance to them. But inter personal relations cannot masquerade India's state relationship with TSP.

But sadly, it seems to me that this Aman ki Asha has assumed a life of its own, 26/11 and other countless massacres by TSP have all but faded from memory, and Indians of all stripes have been brainwashed into this bhai chara BS. Pretty soon watch for self flagellating articles in Indian newspapers about how great TSP kirket team is, how India must lead and show the world that TSP is a safe place to our and play kirket, while Indian cricketers are a pathetic bunch of losers (already we have TSPians writing asnd quoted in Indian newspapers), and how TSP players must be welcomed in IPL, BCCI will find a way to squeeze a kirket tour with TSP etc etc. What will be most disgusting that even here on BR, we have stalwarts hail this surrender as some kind of Chankyan strategy and will even disingenuously compare US toying with TSP through carrots & sticks to secure their geo-political interests (containment of us SDREs) with India's Aman ki Aasha crap.

[Philip]

For many years now I have been mentioning that Norway is a nation which acts as a "cats-paw" for Uncle Sam and has done so from WW2 days.If one considers Pak as a Chinese flunkey,Norway is the western equivalent of Pak to the US.It played a most insidious role in Lanka during the Eelam War,covertly supporting the LTTE and tried its best to armtwist the GOSL into allowing a de-facto LTTE run Jamil state in the north-east,beholden to Uncle Sam as a springboard for destabilising the Indian sub-continent.The spill-over is being felt with the KKM agitation and one must check whether there are any Norwegian NGOs active/funding from Norway to the fishing communities in TN.No surprise therefore about Norwegian spies in Pak!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... istan.html

Norway intelligence chief resigns after hinting Oslo has agents in Pakistan
The head of Norway's intelligence service (PST), widely criticised after the July 22 attacks last year, has resigned after hinting Oslo has agents in Pakistan.

[rajanb]

Pakistan on Edge, Again

Good stuff. Worth a read of this detailed account.

http://newsweekpakistan.com/features/779

[Lalmohan]

philip - maybe, but norway also has the "pleasure" of hosting a large pakistani immigrant community. they probably decided (in collaboration with the british) to start investigating the home roots of some of their immigrant citizens and seek "aid from the ISI" for the war on terror

[pankajs]

Pakistan is America's most dangerous ally: Uneven Cohen

Stephen P Cohen, noted South Asia expert has described Pakistan as "America's most dangerous ally," and has said that while Islamabad [ Images ] "professes to be a democracy," it's most important allies are the most authoritarian regimes in the world, namely "the People's Republic of China, North Korea and Saudi Arabia."

Cohen, who heads the South Asia program at The Brookings Institution, said that Pakistan is not just a crisis state, but a "crises state," and "it is so because it's a paradoxical state."

"Pakistan is what Aristotle called a mixed-constitution -- part democracy and part military autocracy," he added, and argued, "hese kinds of states are very hard to predict."

Cohen, who was a panelist at a conference titled Pakistan: The Crisis State,' hosted by The Hudson Institute, said compounding this paradox as America's most dangerous alloy "is the nuclear paradox" within Pakistan.

"Pakistan like North Korea is too nuclear to fail," he asserted, implying that this is why it has got to continually propped up by the likes of the United States. "Yet nuclear weapons do nothing to advance the economy of deal with the many domestic problems" that beset this country, he said.

Cohen said that Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons creates the permeating perception that "it's important to others and to Pakistan's own population, but that's all it did -- it doesn't bring Pakistan many advantages."

"I do agree with A Q Khan (the father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program who ran a virtual nuclear proliferating Wal-Mart diverting nuclear weapons technology to the likes of North Korea and Libya) that having nuclear weapons have kept the Indian out of Pakistan. But the Indians may not have been interested in invading in any case," he said.

Cohen said that even if there is a coup in Pakistan soon, "I would not be surprised, but I don't think it will change things at all. Pakistan will continue on the way it's going."

He said, "After (former military dictator-turned-president Pervez) Musharraf's failure of collapse as a leader, the hope of the Pakistanis gave way to deep pessimism."

Cohen argued that it is imperative that in the formulation of any coherent US policy toward Pakistan that "the US should be consulting with and should include India."

He claimed that "India's relations with Pakistan are better than ours and India has vital interests in the future of Pakistan -- more vital than we have."

Cohen said in this policy formulation, vis-à-vis Pakistan, the US should also consult with China.

Meanwhile, he said that Pakistan's double-game in its support and succor to terrorist groups within its territory "complicates its relations with China and with India as well as other countries. It's not just the United States."

Another panelist, Marvin Weinbaum, Scholar-in-Residence at The Middle East Institute, said, "I've been looking at Pakistan some 40 years now and as a Pakistan observer, I really don't know that there's been any time in that period when I would have characterised Pakistan as a 'normal' state."

"I know when you use the term crisis and you have a crisis all the time, the term crisis loses its meaning. So, I am asking here, whether there's something deeper involved here -- deeper in the body politic, deeper in the political culture of Pakistan, of which this is the latest and perhaps in the order of things, only of the most dangerous."

Weinbaum said that Pakistan today with all of its tensions between the civilian government and the military, the abounding conspiratorial theories, the thriving militant and terrorist factions, was not just "a paranoid state," but that "I'd go further than that and say, it's a paranoid society."

Lisa Curtis, former Central Intelligence Agency official and currently Senior Research Fellow for South Asian Affairs at the Heritage Foundation -- the conservative DC think tank -- said, "If Pakistan feels that it needs to force the US to choose between India and Pakistan to have a strategic relationship, it's not going to happen."

"Yes, there has to be an understanding that yes, the United States would like a strategic partnership or relationship with Pakistan, but it's certainly not going to choose between India and Pakistan," she said.

Curtis pointed out that "the US relationship with India is extremely important and will remain so. So, my fear is that if Pakistan uses as a litmus test the US relationship with India, that would be to Pakistan's detriment."

[pankajs]

Pakistan: The Crisis State

My bandwidth does not allow me to view the above but it seems to be the recording of the Hudson Institute event on ustream.tv.

[SureshP]

Above video for Pakistan a crisis state

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19737468

[Dipanker]

In US state dept and think tank language speak, this means this big baaad India is a "threat" to TSP, and hence US must allow TSP some pigLeTs and mix up pigLeTs with the "evil", "mighty" Al Queda that is waging war against western Christendom and TSP is an all-lie in this crusade.

On Tharoor articel:

Guys, he is not telling anything new, and he is showing this naive propensity of mixing inter personal relations with inter state relations. Furthermore, in general, group think is much different from how individuals behave. I have come across any number of TSPians here in US who are quite normal and difficult to blow away their presence. What has that got to do with institutional thinking?

In US, individual whites are quite magnanimous, but as a group, look at how they view the world. Likewise, individually, us SDREs get along quite well with many-a-whites, but in dinner parties, one sees profuse frustration at gora slights. So if Tharoor & his deracinated Pandit wife want to forget ethnic cleansing of Pandits from J&K and enjoy Mughal cusine with TSP RAPEs in Lahore and commiserate about "shared values & culture" in shudh Oxford English, I say good riddance to them. But inter personal relations cannot masquerade India's state relationship with TSP.

But sadly, it seems to me that this Aman ki Asha has assumed a life of its own, 26/11 and other countless massacres by TSP have all but faded from memory, and Indians of all stripes have been brainwashed into this bhai chara BS. Pretty soon watch for self flagellating articles in Indian newspapers about how great TSP kirket team is, how India must lead and show the world that TSP is a safe place to our and play kirket, while Indian cricketers are a pathetic bunch of losers (already we have TSPians writing asnd quoted in Indian newspapers), and how TSP players must be welcomed in IPL, BCCI will find a way to squeeze a kirket tour with TSP etc etc. What will be most disgusting that even here on BR, we have stalwarts hail this surrender as some kind of Chankyan strategy and will even disingenuously compare US toying with TSP through carrots & sticks to secure their geo-political interests (containment of us SDREs) with India's Aman ki Aasha crap.

You are so predictable, it's not even funny! I was counting on you to bring cricket discussion in this thread at the opportune moment for you.

You are still having hard time digesting Tharoor's kicking some Paki butt couple of weeks back. Here is some chankian for you, he is just practicing carrot and stick with the Paki!

[sum]

Norway intelligence chief resigns after hinting Oslo has agents in Pakistan
The head of Norway's intelligence service (PST), widely criticised after the July 22 attacks last year, has resigned after hinting Oslo has agents in Pakistan.

Does Norway have a policy of not having foreign agents abroad?

Why should a chief resign if she claims that their *FOREIGN* intelligence service has few guys posted abroad?

[archan]

I guess because such slip-of-tongue should never happen for a guy in that position. If one can do this, he might do something that will be even more damaging to their agency.
Obviously the agents are not blue eyed white men and as noted above, Norway has a healthy dose of paki immigrant population for some reason. Many have been born and brought up there. They will all be under suspicion of the paki agencies now.

[sum]

Didnt need 2 guesses as to which Indian writer( ex-diplomat and BRF darling) could come up with a headline like:

India can't hope to replace Pakistan in US Afghan strategy

Pakistan will not cooperate with the US in Afghanistan unless and until the latter accepts its central role in the search for a settlement and accommodates its 'legitimate interests'. This is the crux of the matter, says M K Bhadrakumar.

[sukhish]

well pakistan is already playing a central role of promoting taliban, what else do we expect.
they get some left out role for themselves, other than that nothing will come out for them.

[ArmenT]

Interesting look into a Paki behind-the-scenes power broker figure who recently died:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar ... agara.html
This Pir Pagara seems to have been quite the character.

[Anujan]

Some interesting figures here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

The U.S. is paying six times as much to send war supplies to troops in Afghanistan through alternate routes after Pakistan’s punitive decision in November to close border crossings to NATO convoys, the Associated Press has learned...Pentagon figures provided to the AP show it is now costing about $104 million per month to send the supplies through a longer northern route. That is $87 million more per month than when the cargo moved through Pakistan....{but}The U.S. has given Pakistan more than $20 billion in aid since 9/11, including civilian and military assistance.

Its not the supplies which is costing the US, having Pakistan as a munna is costing more!

[CRamS]

You are so predictable, it's not even funny! I was counting on you to bring cricket discussion in this thread at the opportune moment for you.

My apologies for not sounding funny, but if you are looking for fun, then instead of reading and not deriving any fun from my posts, I suggest you join Mansoor Ijaz and go have some fun watching female wrestling .

You are still having hard time digesting Tharoor's kicking some Paki butt couple of weeks back. Here is some chankian for you, he is just practicing carrot and stick with the Paki!

I did digest all the carrots he spoke of, but can you name one stick that he invoked? Especially in his latest trip report. Just one and or even half or even a fraction of a stick.

[pankajs]

EXCLUSIVE: Pakistan official says US military will be allowed to return, but not CIA drones - Fox News

U.S. military trainers will be invited back into Pakistan "as early as April or May," but the nation has ruled out allowing CIA drones back into the country, Fox News has learned.

Relations between the two nations have been at an all-time low since 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed in an inadvertent aerial attack by NATO in November.

The Pakistani parliament is reviewing the nature of its relationship with the U.S., and politicians are expected on Jan. 30 to deliver a list of conditions for cooperation to resume.

The stipulations will include no covert CIA or military operations on the ground in Pakistan, and no unauthorized incursions into its airspace. Drones, which are the CIA's biggest weapon against militants hiding in the tribal belt dividing Afghanistan and Pakistan, "can never return," a senior Pakistani official told Fox News.

"They will never be allowed back, at Shamsi or anywhere else," the official added, referring to the base in the country's southwest from which many of the unmanned aerial vehicles were deployed before the NATO attack in November.

In return, Pakistan would allow back U.S. military trainers, including special forces teams, and a resumption of close cooperation with the CIA in targeting militants who use the Pakistani side of the border as a safe haven and breeding ground for extremism. It would also reopen the Torkham and Chaman border crossings into Afghanistan, which have been closed to NATO supply convoys since the attack.

"After this is presented to the Americans, a lot could happen very quickly," the senior official told Fox News, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Islamabad also would reopen its doors to high-level U.S. diplomats after an embarrassing snub this week to President Obama's special envoy to the region, Marc Grossman, who was denied his request to visit Pakistan in the middle of his tour of South Asia.

Pakistan says it wants working conditions with Washington that provide "respect for the nation, its sovereignty -- both its soil and airspace -- and equal terms of cooperation." Government members have said publicly that there has never been equality in the relationship.

"We understand the government of Pakistan is still working on its review of U.S.-Pakistan relations, and we have not yet received a formal report from the government,” Pentagon spokesman Capt. John Kirby said in an emailed statement. “Decisions about the level of Pakistani commitment to our military relationship are obviously theirs to make, and we respect that.

"We continue to desire a close military relationship with Pakistan. ... We both have a fundamental interest in cooperation, in eliminating Al Qaeda's ability to operate from Pakistan, and in ensuring a stable Afghanistan and stable region."

Pakistan, especially its military, has been reeling since U.S. forces killed Usama Bin Laden in a raid in May. The raid, which sparked nationwide protests and stoked further anti-Americanism, and civilian casualties caused by drone attacks are considered by Pakistan to be flagrant violations of its sovereignty by an "arrogant" American government.

Pakistan's foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, said this week that ties "are on hold until we start re-engaging," but Pakistan is now motivated by the U.S. elections to move forward swiftly in rebuilding trust between the countries. Islamabad fears that if foundation stones are not laid before presidential campaigning begins in earnest in the summer, it will not be able to renegotiate with Washington until the middle of next year.

But the senior official suggested there might be a benefit to waiting.

"We would prefer it if there was a Republican government again,” he said. “Pakistan has always done well with the Republicans. Historically, over the decades, we have always had difficulty doing business with the Democrats."

The George W. Bush administration threw billions of dollars at Pakistan to fight Islamist extremists in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, when Pakistan was under the rule of the military dictator Pervez Musharraf. President Bush is said to have convinced Musharraf to leave office, allowing the country to become a democratic state, albeit a highly unstable one ever since.

Under the Obama administration, "we have been getting mixed signals from State, the Pentagon and the CIA,” the official said. “None are on the same page. They do not know how to deal with us, which makes it difficult for us to deal with America." He said that dealings over the past year with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have been "warmest [out of three] and friendly and she genuinely sympathized with the Pakistanis and reached out to the people."

But a gradual erosion of trust between Islamabad and Washington, brought about violence that Pakistan blames on the U.S. and by intransigence by the Pakistani security apparatus to wipe out key militants, has brought the relationship to a bitter impasse.

Congress has stalled much of the $2 billion Pakistan receives annually from the U.S. in civil and military aid, and Pakistan will struggle without its full resumption.

Next month it is due to repay $1.2 billion interest on a $7.6 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund, which was deferred from last year. The government is expected to delay yet again amid a failed economy and poor foreign revenues.

Haven't the Drones already returned? They are willing to allow CIA back. Yesterday they turned back AfPak envoy and today every tom, dick and harry is being allowed? Wah! Wah!

Don't know how reliable this report is.

[Prem]

[quote="I did digest all the carrots he spoke of, but can you name one stick that he invoked? Especially in his latest trip report. Just one and or even half or even a fraction of a stick.[/quote]


Tharoor thinks of stick like in Chopstick or Lip stick and not the traditional Danda as known to Desis. He represents the sentiments of Delhi Establishment getting satisfaction from intellectual arrogancy. Poaqs are plain dumb Naquars of many masters with no interest in intellectual, mental prowess and simply think in term of gains on ground and try to smell the oppertunity like normal sookars on food hunt. This is why they react to any Dhamki from IA Chief. But overall, Tharoor most probably have confused Poaqs even more than the Goofey and his subtle hits might arrive on slow Poaq mind few weeks latter. He did not do that bad even though i wish he would have quoted TNT and Djinna's assertion of MBQ bringng Frozen Arabic genetic material to lay down foundation of Pakistan.

[anupmisra]

Yep! Its official. Pakistan to resume full spectrum of ties with US: FO
Reality hitting home or downhill skiing or both. As they say. its the free money, stupid! You decide.

With the parliamentary re-evaluation of the relationship with the US nearing completion, Pakistan has indicated that it was set to resume full spectrum of bilateral ties.

The desire to re-engage, Mr Basit noted, was mutual as both sides were interested in getting past the last November border incident in which 24 Pakistani soldiers lost their lives.

The 35 recommendations submitted by the parliamentary body for ratification by a joint sitting of the parliament have agreed to renew the “important” relationship based on “mutual respect and mutual interest.”

He further said that Pakistan’s desire was to have a more stable relationship that was not accident prone.

The most significant development expected as a result of the resumption of ties is the restoration of the suspended Nato supply route.

The government may introduce new conditions, including a tax on the Nato cargo transported through Pakistan, before announcing the resumption of the flow of supplies through its territory.

US vessels again started arriving at the port with more supplies earlier this month following a secret meeting in Qatar between ISI Chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha and US officials.

Its the free money! Who's stupid now? Where's all the bluster the pakis were showing on the streets of LaWhore and Slumabad?

[Dipanker]

My apologies for not sounding funny, but if you are looking for fun, then instead of reading and not deriving any fun from my posts, I suggest you join Mansoor Ijaz and go have some fun watching female wrestling .

Apology accepted. Same thing repeated over and over practically in every single post, does get old soon.

I did digest all the carrots he spoke of, but can you name one stick that he invoked? Especially in his latest trip report. Just one and or even half or even a fraction of a stick.

Apparently you have not, and that is after we have had pages of discussions in this thread.
The sticks he delivered couple of weeks back, now he is throwing them some carrot.

Here is the PTI summary of Tharoor's address in Pak, notice that I have highlighted the whole article as each and every paragraph is a slap in the face of Paki-satans:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 91691.aspx

Civil-military imbalance in Pak impeding Indo-Pak ties: Tharoor
Press Trust Of India
Islamabad, January 05, 2012

The civil-military imbalance in Islamabad is a key factor impeding India-Pakistan relations despite a large constituency for peace in both countries, former Indian minister Shashi Tharoor said in Islamabad on Thursday. The dominant role played by the security establishment in shaping

Pakistan’s foreign policy and the powerful military's long-standing links with jihadi groups are issues that will have to be addressed to put the bilateral relationship on an even keel, Tharoor said.
Speaking on the theme, "India and Pakistan: Cooperation or conflict", at an event organised by the Jinnah Institute, a leading think tank, Tharoor noted that elements in Pakistan had for long sponsored terrorists and jihadis as part of a policy meant to "bleed India" while compensating for the asymmetry in conventional forces.

The Pakistan Army was one of the most "lavishly funded" armies of the world and has a "stranglehold over policy" while no elected civilian government had ever completed its term, he pointed out.

It was not in Pakistan's interests for the army to get a "grossly disproportionate share" of the GDP and the budget, said Tharoor, who arrived in Lahore on Tuesday on a four-day Pakistan visit.

"The army lays down the red lines that political leaders dare not cross," he said. The army also preserves the "myth of an Indian threat", the former minister of state for external affairs underlined.

This civil-military imbalance made people in India wonder whether the government was doing the right thing by holding talks with a civilian administration in Pakistan that neither controls nor launches militants for terrorist attacks, he said.

Each terror attack, he said, undermines the minority who believe peace is possible.

People in India also questioned whether the Pakistan Army would agree if a civilian dispensation decided that India is not a threat, Tharoor remarked.

In this regard, he said peace overtures made by President Asif Ali Zardari shortly after he came to power and the army's negative reaction to them showed that the President "went farther than the army was willing to allow him to".

Pakistan's policy of "strategic depth" in Afghanistan and any efforts to wrest Kashmir from India too are not in Islamabad’s interests, he said.

At the same time, Pakistan was suffering due to its policy of financing and training jihadis for 20 years as the terrorists were now targeting military establishments like the army's General Headquarters and a naval airbase in Karachi, he said.

Addressing Pakistan’s concerns about India, Tharoor said the people of India were "totally reconciled to Pakistan's existence as an independent state" and no one believes that the events of 1971 – which led to the creation of Bangladesh – can be replicated.

He noted that the 1971 war was a "special case" precipitated by a Pakistani crackdown on the people of erstwhile East Pakistan.

Answering questions from the audience after his speech, Tharoor made it clear that India had neither the intention nor capability to foment unrest in Balochistan.

A strong and stable Pakistan was in India's interest, he said. India was essentially a "status quoist" country and there could be peace between the two sides if they agreed on "mutually acceptable parameters", Tharoor said.

While terrorist groups have a momentum of their own and cannot be turned off like a tap, Pakistan and India can focus on softer issues like a free trade pact and educational exchanges to improve relations, Tharoor noted.

He also called for greater interaction between India and Pakistan on Afghanistan, where an "unhealthy sense of competition" had developed. Though both countries were often on opposite sides, a stable, moderate and functional Afghanistan was in the interest of both sides, he said.

In response to a question on the failure by both sides to reach an agreement to end the military standoff on the Siachen glacier, Tharoor acknowledged that there had been a "hardening" of the Indian stance after Pakistan-backed infiltrators occupied strategic heights in Kargil in 1999.

There were fears that a unilateral withdrawal by Indian troops would be taken advantage of, he said.

[Anujan]

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/01 ... be-sacked/

SC wants assurance COAS, ISI DG won’t be sacked

The Supreme Court on Friday directed the government to present within two weeks its stance in writing that it had no intention to sack Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Director General (DG) Lt General Ahmad Shuja Pasha.

I presume it is because they both enjoy constitutionally and divinely sanctioned right to serve in their positions.