Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

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shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 09:15

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:When things are bad they need to be improved. Improvement takes time. The bigger the area and the bigger the population the more the investment in money and time and effort to change things.


Bigger area and more population generally translates to more resources (physical and human). It mostly depends on the morals and competence of people in charge.


No. Off topic but that is not a general rule. Building roads and and training teachers and providing infrastructure for colleges cannot be speeded up beyond a point even if you have the money for it. There is a basic minimum period of time required. Even you provide Pakistan US$ 1 trillion a year for that - it will take 30 years. It's not the money. It is the physical process and social process

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Jan 2012 09:18

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:shiv, countries poorer than India such as in Africa, nevertheless have better average nutrition and health status; it is true of Bangladesh, as well. It is feasible that it is true in Pakistan as well.

Reliable Pakistan road statistics are indeed hard to come by.


Arun what you say is not incompatible with what I have been saying.

When things are bad they need to be improved. Improvement takes time. The bigger the area and the bigger the population the more the investment in money and time and effort to change things.

India's condition is bad not because of lack of effort. It is bad because of size and magnitude of the problem. Pakistan's problem in theory is only 25% of what Indi faces, so in theory they should have made things better as Bangladesh and Lanka have done.

My posts are about how and why Pakistan is not getting there. They have a huge problem and they are not even putting in as much effort as India and they don't have the infrastructure comparable to India. So Imran Khan's "90 day change" can only be a delusion. My optimistic estimate for Pakistan is that if they spend 80% of resources on development it will still take them 30 years. 2042. Imran Khan will be 89 years old then.


Can we take this to an appropriate thread (you name it, please)? In the meantime,

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... l=en&dl=en

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Pranav » 26 Jan 2012 09:24

shiv wrote:No. Off topic but that is not a general rule. Building roads and and training teachers and providing infrastructure for colleges cannot be speeded up beyond a point even if you have the money for it. There is a basic minimum period of time required. Even you provide Pakistan US$ 1 trillion a year for that - it will take 30 years. It's not the money. It is the physical process and social process


Last OT ... you can just multiply all inputs by n to get the work done n times faster. If necessary by giving contracts to Chinis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Jan 2012 10:02

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 63,00.html
01/24/2012
"German-Pakistani Tensions
Berlin Demands Explanation for 'Spy' Detentions
By Hasnain Kazim in Islamabad
here is tension between Berlin and Islamabad after Pakistan detained three alleged German intelligence agents near the Afghan border. The men were unable to prove their claims to be aid workers. The mysterious incident has real development organizations worried about their reputation and safety.
The case of three Germans who were arrested and interrogated by Pakistani police over the weekend has strained relations between the two countries. Berlin summoned Pakistan's acting ambassador to Germany on Monday in protest of the approach taken by local Pakistani authorities, but not all of their questions were answered.
"In our view, the incident still needs further clarification," a German Foreign Ministry source told SPIEGEL ONLINE. The Pakistani embassy confirmed that Berlin had made its "concern" known.
The diplomatic protest note signals a new turn in the case. Before this, Berlin had neither background information nor confirmation that the Germans had been questioned. It's a delicate issue, because Pakistan claims the three people work for Germany's Federal Intelligence Service (BND), the country's foreign intelligence agency. The Foreign Ministry has not confirmed this, however, describing them instead as "diplomatically registered workers for the embassy in Islamabad."
The trio, which has reportedly since been released, was arrested on Saturday in the western Pakistani city of Peshawar and brought to the capital Islamabad for questioning. According to Pakistani police, the two men and one woman gave conflicting reports about their identities. "First they said they worked for a development agency," a Peshawar police officer said. "Then they said they worked for the German Embassy and were tasked with overseeing development projects in the region." They were reportedly unable to prove their claims with documentation.
Pakistani authorities also found business cards in the trio's possession that indicated they were from the German Agency for International Cooperation (GIZ), the organization under which their vehicle was also registered. But Pakistani intelligence sources claim they were actually BND agents. "We have observed them for a long while and determined they were spying," said a source familiar with the case........"
Gautam

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pankajs » 26 Jan 2012 10:45

Mullahs, militants and military – Pakistan’s shadowy coalition
<...>
For years confined to his power base in the eastern Punjab province, Mr Saeed is on the march – criss-crossing the country with a radical road show starring sectarian hate groups, Islamist parties and hawkish ex-generals. They call themselves the Pakistan Defence Council.
<...>
“Pakistan is facing very severe threats from both sides – India is one side, America and Nato forces are on the other, and the agenda of both is Pakistan,” Mr Saeed told the Financial Times. “We want to send a message to them that the defence of Pakistan is uppermost in our minds.”

Fist-waving speakers told the throng – which included boys sporting black and white headbands and brandishing sticks – that India would be sundered into quarters.

The spectacle will send a chill through New Delhi, which views Mr Saeed as public enemy number one, and lay bare the limits of US attempts to pressure or bribe Pakistan into cracking down on militants.

But the coalition is more than just a vivid illustration of how authorities allow extremists to flout official bans and operate in plain sight.

The group’s emergence suggests power-brokers within the security forces are re-activating old contacts to protect their interests at a time of exceptional political turbulence and tension with the US.

Some experts believe such forces want to harness the jingoistic fervour inspired by Mr Saeed and his friends to pile pressure on the ruling Pakistan People’s party – which is widely disliked in the army – ahead of elections due by next spring.
<...>
The rules that have governed Pakistan since it loosely aligned itself with Washington after the September 11 2001 attacks are being re-written in a complex power struggle between the government of Asif Ali Zardari, the president, and its adversaries in the army and judiciary.

The outcome will influence whether the country of 180m can cement its transition from military rule to democracy, or slide down an increasingly isolationist, intolerant path, with profound implications for security in India, Afghanistan and the west.
<...>
With the opposition shaken by the rise of Imran Khan, the former cricket star, there is a sense that Pakistan is in flux. Against this backdrop, the formation of the PDC in October appears to represent an attempt by Pakistan’s mullah-military-militant complex to ensure its voice is heard.
<...>
Some in the military view Mr Zardari’s halting efforts to forge a rapprochement with India with suspicion. An end to the neighbours’ cold war – however remote that prospect may currently seem – would challenge the very reason for the existence of Pakistan’s half-million-man army and its business empire.

“We have only one objective: to form a civilian force for the defence of Pakistan, which can work alongside Pakistan forces,” said Mr Saeed, who was subjected to a UN travel ban and asset freeze after the Mumbai attacks.

He condemned the government’s plans to grant greater market access to Indian goods as a “conspiracy” to destroy Pakistan’s economy.
<...>
While Pakistan’s army has not shrunk from removing troublesome civilians from power, the days of coups seem to be over. A putsch would earn international ire and a flaying in Pakistan’s boisterous media – which dared to criticise the army over the national humiliation caused by the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in May.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Neela » 26 Jan 2012 14:05

shiv wrote:
Neela wrote:Surely you cannot call it a plan when un-armed civilians are left to face cowards with guns and bombs and babus calling it " It is all working to plan onlee"

If you look at Indian retaliation against attacks since the parliament attack, there seems to be a plan not to hit Pakistan. Oh the armed forces are planning allright - but the GoI has no intention of hitting Pakistan. But the "do not hit back" plan has never been announced publicly.

Not even blaming Pakistan is a new feature of the plan.

Even I don't know whether I am being serious or not, but here's a thought. Pakistan clearly has a "sub-class" of people who don't speak in he same voice as the army or government. I am reminded of the way Kasab's home village and parents were discovered and made public even as the Paki government was denying that he was a Paki and then the charade of agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India and them backing out on army pressure.
Weird things happen and India's "plan" (according to me) never to hit Pakistan belongs in there with those weird things. There is likely to be some Paki gallery that India is playing to. The fact that India is not making the exact identity of that gallery public indicates that either the GoI has "its fingers crossed" that al will be vel, or that exposing the real identities of those with whom GoI is conducting parleys would endanger their safety.
The problem is that the latter possibility looks all mysterious and Chankian, while the former seems more likely, theer may be no moderate gallery in Pakistan. After all whom could the GoI be talking to that the ISI does not know about? But in my mind there is an element of "high hopes" that the GoI actually is in touch with some senior Pakistan army people who are serving as a guide. But we will know that only when the next terror attack occurs. It is possible to concoct any story about policy and Chankianness until a terrorist attack occurs. After that all theories about GoI plans will be reset to zero.
Did you read the news that the Khan films 3 Idiots and a couple of others are making record breaking numbers of crores in Pakistan? exactly how is the money being made? Is Pakistan actually paying up front? Any idea anyone? But the news and crore numbers are in all the media in India.


Shiv, you have your theories and I have mine. It is not really that surprising when people sympathetic to India are found in TSP. The same is valid for India too - there are people sympathetic to TSP.

But just as you have this _theory_ , I have mine too . After 3 decades, we still have this problem - this means that all policies or plans to counter this menace that have been proposed and implemented have all failed. I know - calling it a failure seems harsh but isn't that a good way to measure. Zero deaths of Indians on Indian soil = success?
30 years is a long time to find a "final solution" . It could be that this solution was there all along but it has conflicted with the interests of the party in power. The pandering to certain communities could be seen as evidence. For a short period when a party was not in power, we almost saw the solution being implemented.

[ The terrorist attacks on Pakistani soil itself on a large scale and daily basis, as far as I know was not foreseen by anybody say 10 years back. I am willing to be corrected here but GoI has made no warning to TSP in the 1990s that terror it sponsors will engulf it. So this thing - "let TSP self-immolate" is , as I see it, is just a very very fortunate lifeline the GoI has got and has been using since the last few years]

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 15:14

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:No. Off topic but that is not a general rule. Building roads and and training teachers and providing infrastructure for colleges cannot be speeded up beyond a point even if you have the money for it. There is a basic minimum period of time required. Even you provide Pakistan US$ 1 trillion a year for that - it will take 30 years. It's not the money. It is the physical process and social process


Last OT ... you can just multiply all inputs by n to get the work done n times faster. If necessary by giving contracts to Chinis.



In this instance not OT at all. I am going to talk only about Pakistan.

Staring with an image
Image

50% of Pakistanis have no access to basic education. That is approx 80 million people.

I was unable to find an estimate of the number of villages in Pakistan. I will assume 100,000 - that is 1/6th of India's 640,000. Assume that half of these villages (50,000 villages) don't have access roads or schools resulting in 80 million people without access to education.

Assume that just 10 km of road has to be built for each village to get connected to an existing road. That means 500,000 km of roads need to be built to just connect these villages. Google says it takes 5 years to build a road from plan stage onwards. Let me shorten that to 2 years for Pakistan as "Shitistani quota" . 50,000 roads will take 100,000 years to build if one team has to do it.

Assume 1000 teams from China with unlimited funds fanning out all over Pakistan to build roads - 100 years of road building alone. Make that 10,000 Chinese teams. Still, 10 years

Add to that the building of 50,000 schools. Maybe the whole set up (land acquisition, planning, setting up of prefab building and providing water/power) takes 3 months for one team. Imagine 1000 building teams doing that all over Pakistan. It will take 12 years to build 50,000 schools.

Now teachers. You need at least 50,000 teachers for 50,000 schools. But you need to train teachers who are willing to go to all those 50,000 villages. At best one can expect a 1 in 4 response because some of those villages will be really backward and way waaay out. So you need a minimun of 200,000 teachers trained. Pakistan has a total of 400,000 graduates of all types a year. You will not get 200,000 primary teachers out of that given Pakistan's current education infrastructure.

Just because some small sized African country can do it does not mean that it can be done fast in a huge country like Pakistan.

And I am not even taking into account the other inevitable delays like social resistance, disputes etc.

No. What Pakistan needs doing is not going to get done fast. And if the Army keeps grabbing money - Pakistan will continue down its current failure road.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 26 Jan 2012 15:40

Hakeemullah, a lot of these stats are also quite depressing for apna desh. That is not the point. TSP is special because it exists for promoting jehad and hence has to prepare visha-kanyas by the million. Of course, they will also kill their own handlers by the thousands..

TSP used to have a monopoly on negotiating with a gun pointed to its own head. But those days are over. Now Egypt and so many others will do the same in coming months/years. Plus there is global recession. If KSA's oil revenues also decline, then Pakbaric goose is truly cooked.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 16:01

Suppiah wrote:Hakeemullah, a lot of these stats are also quite depressing for apna desh. That is not the point. TSP is special because it exists for promoting jehad and hence has to prepare visha-kanyas by the million. Of course, they will also kill their own handlers by the thousands..


Suppiah only ignorance will make you depressed. You need to see rate of change and volume of change over time and the direction that the country is heading. It just so happened that I was taught about these realities in college as early as 1975. It was already part of the Indian curriculum using Indian data in the 1960s. It does not exist in Paki curricula. If you have been following the statistics of India and the subcontinent in general since then you will know what I mean.

The subject is both complex and involves a lot of arcane data. Most people, even highly educated people do not learn about it. But there are enough people working on it in India. There is almost no one in Pakistan.

As long as you remain ignorant of the humongous amounts of work done in India you will remain depressed, not least because you will also be totally ignorant of how big the problem originally was and ignorant of how long it tales to set some things right and why it takes so long.

Pakistan is in deep deeep doodoo. And they don't know it. These things simply cannot change fast.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby member_20617 » 26 Jan 2012 16:25

(1)FACT – USA has given millions of $ of arms and aid to Pakistan for decades

(2)FACT – Both USA & China have directly or indirectly supported Pakistan to acquire/make nuclear weapons

(3)FACT – Pakistan has fought 4 wars with India with USA supplied arms (China is now becoming a major supplier of arms to Pakistan)

(4)FACT – Pakistan has sent terrorists to India to kill Indians

(5)FACT – Pakistan has been linked to almost all terrorists attacks in the world

(6)FACT – Pakistan’s economy is in turmoil

My questions are:

(1)How come a bankrupt, terrorist state like Paki Satan is able to make USA AND China dance to its tune? OR is it that Paki Satan is dancing to the American/Chinese tune? This leads to my second question.

(2)Why USA and China are determined on attacking India indirectly?

It just does not make any sense that USA and China both see more advantage in supporting a failed state like Paki Satan than having a strong relationship with a major country like India. It is a win-win situation for USA and China to have strong partnership with India for numerous reasons.

China with its bigger area and population than India has been able to transform the country in the space of 20-25 years. I believe India can do better than China but the corrupt and wrong politicians in India have ruined this.

There is also a lack of

(1)political will

(2)long term strategy/vision

(3)fast decision making process (bureaucracy needs to be streamlined)

(4)actual implementation of good policies

And before someone writes back that China has been able to achieve this because of the authoritarian rule of the communist party, the following countries have been able to achieve a high standard of living despite starting from scratch after World War 2 destruction:

Britain, France, Germany and Japan – all democratic countries

USA is bigger in area than India but it has been able to develop itself.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby chaanakya » 26 Jan 2012 16:29

shiv wrote:
I was unable to find an estimate of the number of villages in Pakistan. I will assume 100,000 - that is 1/6th of India's 640,000. Assume that half of these villages (50,000 villages) don't have access roads or schools resulting in 80 million people without access to education. .



According to Economic Survey 2011 of Pakistan there are 160110 Electrified Villages .

Another reports/PPt puts unelectrified Villages at 40000 in 2006-07 and during that period electrified villages are 117506 so Total should be somewhere 150000 to 180000 villages in pakistan.
http://www.finance.gov.pk/survey_1011.html

http://www.finance.gov.pk/survey/chapte ... Energy.pdf
http://www.sari-energy.org/PageFiles/Wh ... KISTAN.pdf

These are Paki data so use at your own risk. :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby kenop » 26 Jan 2012 16:41

OT alert
Just watched a portion of the "Making of Foodistan" (a cooking competition show between Indian and Pakistani chefs) where Pakistaniat was in full display and noticed/pointed out by the judges. Do not have the url of the video to refer here.
In the meantime, Veer Singhvi (a judge on the show) has something to say at around the middle of this short video on an aspect of Pakistaniat BRF knows so well
http://goodtimes.ndtv.com/video/videolist.aspx?vid=222128
Likely that general public may have gaps filled up in their general education watching this show on TV.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby chaanakya » 26 Jan 2012 16:46

Of Special Interest here

Cost of War on Terror for Pakistan Economy

Pakistan’s economy is under pressure of the War on Terror intensifying for last four years in Afghanistan. Since 2006, the War has spread like a contagion into settled areas of Pakistan that has so far, cost the country more than 35,000 citizens,
3500 security personnel, destruction of infrastructure, internal migration of millions of people from parts of northwestern Pakistan, erosions of investment climate, nose diving of production and growing unemployment and above all brought economic activity to a virtual standstill in many part of the country. Pakistan had never witnessed such devastating social and economic upheaval in its industry, even after dismemberment of the country by direct war.

After 9/11 Pakistan had to assume the role of a frontline state in the War against Terror. The onset of the War disrupted Pakistan’s normal trading activities, as the cost of trading increased substantially because of higher insurance cover.
Consequently, economic growth slowed demands for imports reduced with consequential decline in tax collection and inflows of foreign investment were naturally adversely affected, accentuated by the travel bans issued by western governments to its entrepreneurs.

While the economic situation was worsening, a new elected government took power in 2008 and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs constituted an inter-ministerial committee to assess the direct and indirect cost of the War on Terror on
Pakistan.
The Ministries of Finance, Interior, Commerce and some other relevant government departments plus the representatives of two provinces bordering turbulent Afghanistan participated in these deliberations. After few
sessions and valuable inputs from all sides, the committee estimated the cost of War on Terror and its impact on Pakistan’s economy and society.

The conclusion was that the War not only caused serious damage to the economy, but also to the social fabrics of Pakistan. Obviously, continuity of War will continue to bleed the economy and society of Pakistan. At the start of the War, the cost of it to Pakistan was estimated at $ 2.669 billion in fiscal year 2001-02. This calculation was based on the assumptions that: (i) The War in Afghanistan that begun on October 7, 2001 will end swiftly by December 2001: (ii) normalcy will resume from January 2002; (iii) the Taliban government will be ousted and some low intensity fight will continue but life in Pakistan will remain normal; and (iv) the additional increase in freight cargo and war risk premium will be removed. The abovementioned assumptions were not materialized and instead the war on terror continued to gain
momentum and became more precarious for the entire region in general and Pakistan in particular as it shifted to its settled areas to disrupt all kind of investment and economic activity. Pakistan became more insecure in its efforts to make the
world a safer place to live.

Pakistan continued to pay a heavy price in terms of both the economic and security terms. A large portion of its resources, both men and material are being consumed by this war for the last several years. The economy was subjected to enormous direct and indirect costs which continued to rise from $ 2.669 billion in 2001-02 to $ 13.6 billion by 2009-10, projected to rise to $ 17.8 billion in the current financial year (2010-11) and moving forward, the direct and indirect costs to the economy is most likely to rise further. The comparison of cost for 2001-02 and 2010-11 is given in Table-1 and the year-wise cost of war on terror is documented in Table-2:



During the last 10 years the direct and indirect cost of war on terror incurred by Pakistan amounted to $ 67.93 billion or Rs.5037 billion. The events that transpired after 9/11 in Afghanistan worsened the security environment in
the country. As a result, the western countries including the United States continued to impose travel ban for their citizen (investor, importers etc.) to visit Pakistan.
This has affected Pakistan’s exports, prevented the inflows of foreign
investment, affected the pace of privatization program, slowed the overall economic activity, reduced import demand, reduced tax collection, expenditure over-run on additional security spending, domestic tourism industry suffered
badly, hundreds; and thousands of jobs could have been created had economic activity not slowed as well as thousands of jobs were lost because of the destruction of domestic/foreign tourism industry; destruction of physical infrastructure (military and civil) massive surge in security related spending; migration of thousands of people from war affected areas and the associated rise in expenditure to support internally displaced persons.

Pakistan’s investment-to-GDP ratio has nosedived from 22.5 percent in 2006-07 to 13.4 percent in 2010-11 with serious consequences for job creating ability of the economy. Going forward, Pakistan needs enormous resources to enhance
productive capacity of the economy.
The security situation will be the key determinant of the future flow of the investment. Pakistan economy needs an early end to this war.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby jrjrao » 26 Jan 2012 16:58

Nara-e-takbeer. AoA. Pakistan paindabad.

Worlds first water driven car like Limousine First time invented in Pakistan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxr38V50p2s

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby JE Menon » 26 Jan 2012 17:25

Comment:
_____________________________
watch from 18:00 onward. he made amazing generator made up of hydrogen cells. (i think it is a radiator) and water got busted into it with battery electricity and he showed decorated water bottle which opens into carburetor. Is it really possible if yes then what can be the formula to burst water as water's next state is stream. If Hydrogen can be separated from water then hydrogen bomb can be made easily at home. Did he published any research paper regarding this invention
___________________________________

These phuckers are unbelievable!!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby harbans » 26 Jan 2012 17:45

He is using this kit..available for $67:

http://www.runyourcaronwater.com/hydrog ... -kits.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Lalmohan » 26 Jan 2012 18:25

i separated hydrogen from water at school, i think we should declare it as a WMD lab just to be safe...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby rajanb » 26 Jan 2012 18:49

Recd via email from AfPak channel:

Cavity of corruption
:eek:



Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaf (PTI) leader Javed Hashmi joined a crowd of aspiring doctors and dentists on Tuesday at the inaugural ceremony of a private medical and dental school in Multan (ET). Speaking to the media later, Hashmi added that he thinks dentists in Pakistan should look into developing an injection that attacks the teeth of the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats that are stealing the nation's wealth.
:shock: :rotfl:

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/326490/hashmi-tells-budding-dentists-to-invent-special-injection-for-corrupt-leaders/#comment-532576

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pankajs » 26 Jan 2012 19:37

Prime Minister Imran Khan would be no friend of the West
Vidya S. Sharma is a Melbourne-based adviser on risk management and inter-country joint ventures.
Since Imran Khan switched to politics in 1996, the Pakistani superstar cricketer's Tehreek-e-Insaf (Movement for Justice, MJP) party has been a one-man band nibbling at the periphery of Pakistani politics. But late last year he addressed huge political rallies both in Lahore and Karachi. All available evidence now suggests the Pakistani military has adopted Khan as its preferred candidate.

In November Khan was in China as Beijing's guest. Given their very close ties, it is most unlikely that China would not have consulted the Pakistani army before inviting him.

Late last year, Air Marshal Asghar Khan merged the Tehreek-i-Istiqlal party with Khan's party.

Many politicians from the People's Political Party (PPP) and former prime minister Nawaz Sharif's Muslim league (PML-N) have joined Khan's party, including former foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi. There are reports that many sitting parliamentarians of PPP, PML-N and former president General Musharaff's PML-Q party are also eager to join Khan.

Should these trends continue, then Khan will either have an absolute majority after the next election, or will emerge as one of three central players. So what kind of Prime Minister would he be?

This question is relevant here because Australian forces are fighting the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan. Australia also runs the second-biggest training program for the Pakistani army.

After early schooling in Pakistani Christian schools, Khan was educated in Britain at the Royal Grammar School (Worcester) and Oxford University. When not playing cricket for Pakistan, he lived in England. He married English heiress Jemima Goldsmith. The marriage lasted eight years and their two sons live with her in England.

Do these facts mean he would be sympathetic to the Western viewpoint? It seems unlikely. If Khan's speeches are a clue then he appears to be one of the most virulently anti-American and anti-Western politicians in Pakistan today.

Khan is reportedly very close to General Hamid Gul, a venomously anti-Western former head of Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI. General Gul oversaw the recruitment, training, and provision of funds and safe houses to the mujahideen during Moscow's occupation of Afghanistan. Later he played a central role in the emergence of the Taliban. He reportedly continues to maintain strong ties with the Taliban and also with such terrorist organisations as al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Haqqani network.

General Gul's ideology and pro-Wahabbist leanings continue to dominate the thinking of most of the ISI and Pakistani armed forces officers.

Imran Khan has inherited this anti-Western attitude from his political mentor. Khan never criticised the rule of General Zia-ul-Haq, a close ally of General Gul and equally responsible for Pakistan's Talibanisation.

Khan is close to Qazi Hussain Ahmed, a prominent Taliban and Haqqani network sympathiser and ex-president of Pakistan's biggest Islamist party, the Jamaat-e-Islami. Khan has often spoken at his rallies.


Khan supported Musharraf's coup against Nawaz Sharif. Musharraf at one stage was willing to appoint Khan to his cabinet. But Khan reportedly wanted the position of prime minister. When his demand was declined, Khan refused the ministry.

Khan lambasted the US for its operation against Osama bin Laden but failed to ask how bin Laden had been living in Abbottabad, a garrison town run by the Pakistani army.

Similarly, he reacted indifferently to the targeted assassination in Quetta of police surgeon Syed Baqir Shah who testified that five unarmed Western tourists were killed by bullets fired by the police/security agents, or to that of Syed Saleem Shahzad, a journalist writing a story about the extent of al-Qaeda's infiltration of the Pakistani navy. He never misses an opportunity to criticise the US but has remained silent on the Taliban's atrocities.

Khan has often talked about improving the lot of ordinary citizens and creating jobs for the young (his largest support base), but never mentions that this goal will remain illusory unless the military's budget is cut at least by half.

The Pakistani army also likes Khan because he is untainted by corruption, something that suits the present national mood.

It is worth recalling the military has never liked the Bhutto family or PPP. Zia made Sharif Prime Minister: the military feels betrayed by him because he tried to sack Musharraf.

Khan is also politically inexperienced and, therefore, someone who could perhaps be easily manipulated.

All these developments point towards greater political instability in Pakistan and the continuing dominance of Pakistani politics by its military

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby amit » 26 Jan 2012 20:01

Lalmohan wrote:i separated hydrogen from water at school, i think we should declare it as a WMD lab just to be safe...


We've heard of suitcase bombs. The Pak mards will soon unveil a water bottle bomb.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby vnadendla » 26 Jan 2012 20:06

Can you do the same for India. How long would it take for us to become a Singapore given rates of growth of certain drivers. Or point us to published work in the field.

shiv wrote:

In this instance not OT at all. I am going to talk only about Pakistan.

Staring with an image
Image

50% of Pakistanis have no access to basic education. That is approx 80 million people.

I was unable to find an estimate of the number of villages in Pakistan. I will assume 100,000 - that is 1/6th of India's 640,000. Assume that half of these villages (50,000 villages) don't have access roads or schools resulting in 80 million people without access to education.

Assume that just 10 km of road has to be built for each village to get connected to an existing road. That means 500,000 km of roads need to be built to just connect these villages. Google says it takes 5 years to build a road from plan stage onwards. Let me shorten that to 2 years for Pakistan as "Shitistani quota" . 50,000 roads will take 100,000 years to build if one team has to do it.

Assume 1000 teams from China with unlimited funds fanning out all over Pakistan to build roads - 100 years of road building alone. Make that 10,000 Chinese teams. Still, 10 years

Add to that the building of 50,000 schools. Maybe the whole set up (land acquisition, planning, setting up of prefab building and providing water/power) takes 3 months for one team. Imagine 1000 building teams doing that all over Pakistan. It will take 12 years to build 50,000 schools.

Now teachers. You need at least 50,000 teachers for 50,000 schools. But you need to train teachers who are willing to go to all those 50,000 villages. At best one can expect a 1 in 4 response because some of those villages will be really backward and way waaay out. So you need a minimun of 200,000 teachers trained. Pakistan has a total of 400,000 graduates of all types a year. You will not get 200,000 primary teachers out of that given Pakistan's current education infrastructure.

Just because some small sized African country can do it does not mean that it can be done fast in a huge country like Pakistan.

And I am not even taking into account the other inevitable delays like social resistance, disputes etc.

No. What Pakistan needs doing is not going to get done fast. And if the Army keeps grabbing money - Pakistan will continue down its current failure road.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Pranav » 26 Jan 2012 20:11

shiv wrote:Assume that just 10 km of road has to be built for each village to get connected to an existing road. That means 500,000 km of roads need to be built to just connect these villages. Google says it takes 5 years to build a road from plan stage onwards. Let me shorten that to 2 years for Pakistan as "Shitistani quota" . 50,000 roads will take 100,000 years to build if one team has to do it.


It will be much less than 10 km per village ... villages tend to be close to each other. 2 or 3 km per village sounds right.

As far as time requirement is concerned, it depends upon how organized you are. Here is a nice film about a Chinese team building a 30 story sky scraper in 15 days -


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 20:14

pankajs wrote:Prime Minister Imran Khan would be no friend of the West
Khan has often talked about improving the lot of ordinary citizens and creating jobs for the young (his largest support base), but never mentions that this goal will remain illusory unless the military's budget is cut at least by half.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 20:17

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:Assume that just 10 km of road has to be built for each village to get connected to an existing road. That means 500,000 km of roads need to be built to just connect these villages. Google says it takes 5 years to build a road from plan stage onwards. Let me shorten that to 2 years for Pakistan as "Shitistani quota" . 50,000 roads will take 100,000 years to build if one team has to do it.


It will be much less than 10 km per village ... villages tend to be close to each other. 2 or 3 km per village sounds right.

As far as time requirement is concerned, it depends upon how organized you are. Here is a nice film about a Chinese team building a 30 story sky scraper in 15 days -



Pranavji thank you for reposting the nice video that was earlier posted in another thread . But I still don't think Pakistan is going to develop in a hurry even if the Chinese come and build one skyscraper every 15 days for the next 50 years in Pakistan. They are that organized. But they will have 1250 skyscrapers at the end of it all and 400 million morons to live in them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Abhijit » 26 Jan 2012 20:31

Shiv saar, first of all, my apologies for a long hiatus, due to rozi-roti reasons. Secondly, my apologies since I seem to have misconstrued your theorization as prescription (I must request you to grant me the benefit of doubt because in your posts sometimes the lines between what is theory, conjecture, explanation, sarcasm, condemnation or prescription do get blurred). But this is what you wrote on page 14 of this thread:

The only last minute hope for the Paki army is to conduct a massive terror raid on India - say Republic day. They can then declare emergency on the excuse that India will retaliate. But if India does not retaliate and blames Hindu terrorists - the Paki army will find itself in power. India blaming Hindu terrorists and not attacking Pakistan - or sending dossiers will put the Paki army in a spot because they still cannot do USA's job and USA will still be killing momeen.


The facts are as follows as far as I can recollect:

- India has been a victim of terror attacks by hundreds
- Many, if not most of these attacks have been traced (officially or unofficially) to pakistan and its proxies
- Recently, Indian Mujahideen and SIMI and other such proxies that have the benefit of Indian nationality have been involved in these attacks, possibly at the behest of their paki patrons
- GoI has never ever attacked pakistan as a punishment for these attacks
- GoI in the last few years has introduced a completely bogus bogeyman of 'Hindu Terror' and has erroneously and I suppose willfully blamed some of the terror attacks on Hindu terror instead of paki terror.

Now if you produce a paragraph like above (quoted) what possible ways can it to be construed as? That you are putting a theory on seemingly unconnected facts? Or is it an outcome (a widening civil-khaki split in pakiland) you prefer even at the cost of the GoI blaming the Hindu terror? If it is your theory (and in a latter post you have clarified that you do not endorse this theory) then that was not very clear from the quoted paragraph, hence the friendly fire.

More later as time permits...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 20:44

Abhijit wrote:

Now if you produce a paragraph like above (quoted) what possible ways can it to be construed as? That you are putting a theory on seemingly unconnected facts? Or is it an outcome (a widening civil-khaki split in pakiland) you prefer even at the cost of the GoI blaming the Hindu terror? If it is your theory (and in a latter post you have clarified that you do not endorse this theory) then that was not very clear from the quoted paragraph, hence the friendly fire.

More later as time permits...


Basically I am expecting the GoI to react to the next terror attack by saying "It could be anyone, including Hindu terrorists"

The only possible benefit this can have is not in India. It only sends a signal to Pakistan that we are definitely not considering blaming or attacking Pakistan.

If that terror attack in India was conducted to provoke India, India will tell Pakistan, "No. We think you are innocent. One of our people did it" What effect this has on Pakistan remains to be seen. I only hope the outcome is good for India, should this actually happen as I anticipate.

If you want an explanation of why I think the GoI is going to do this, my theory/conjecture is that the GoI has decided that Pakistani terror attacks are designed to provoke India and that provocation, be it an attack on Pakistan or anti-Muslim sentiment in India will inevitably benefit Pakistan and will not solve anything for India.

It is also my theory/opinion that the specific parties who hope to benefit from provoking India are the Shitistan army and jihadis like LeT. It may be the GoI's position that India should absorb terrorism rather than allowing them to augment their power and popularity by making India "prove" its anti-Pakistan/anti-Muslim "credentials".
Last edited by shiv on 26 Jan 2012 20:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby rajkumar » 26 Jan 2012 20:52

shiv wrote:Basically I am expecting the GoI to react to the next terror attack by saying "It could be anyone, including Hindu terrorists"


So what happens if the next attack has the paki's fingerprint on it and the Paki's make it obvious that it's the GoP 'state/non state' collaboration. What does GoI do then!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 20:55

rajkumar wrote:
shiv wrote:Basically I am expecting the GoI to react to the next terror attack by saying "It could be anyone, including Hindu terrorists"


So what happens if the next attack has the paki's fingerprint on it and the Paki's make it obvious that it's the GoP 'state/non state' collaboration. What does GoI do then!!



My assumption is that Pakistan will not do that. But the last two occasions when Paki involvement was crystal clear (Parliament attack and 26/11) guess what GoI did?

Guess what the GoI has done for the last 50 attacks?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby RajeshA » 26 Jan 2012 21:03

We are making a big deal about the Civvies-Khakhis-Beards differences.

First there is a Love-Hate Triangle here and not just a tug-of-war between Civvies and Khakhis.

When I say Civvies here I generally mean the Feudals, the Rich, the RAPE, past Administrators and Bureaucrats, and the ones still attached to their old linguistic-cultural roots. Also the MQM, I would consider in the Civvies.

The Civvies have some space to maneuver politically and some space to make money in the system. They are also the fall guys for all the corruption, nepotism and any other problems the Aam Abdul janta sees in their politics. The Khakhis allow these to share in power, so that they serve as a buffer between the Khakhis and the Aam Janta. The rage of the people is directed towards them as a lightning rod. When the Khakhis feel that the Civvies have become too unpopular, then the Army takes over, for they feel that then the Army need not share in the profits with the Civvies. When the Army becomes unpopular, Civvies again get a chance to share in the spoils. That is the Khakhi-Civvie relationship.

The Khakhi-Beards relationship was one where the Khakhis had the upper hand and could use the beards to get some non-democratic legitimacy. Now the Beards have grown in size, and they are not willing to give the Khakhis legitimacy for power cheaply unless the Khakhis do exactly as the Beards want.

That is why it is difficult for the Khakhis to take over now. They would have a hard time getting legitimacy either from some democratic trick or from the beards. And the khakhis cannot do what the beards want - that is take on USA.

The recent get together was to demonstrate that the beards want an anti-India platform where there can be some level of Khakhi-Beards cooperation, so that the Khakhis can take over. But that was only with a subset of the Beards - the sarkari beards - JuD. Not every Beard in on board.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2012 21:45

RajeshA, The Khakees got primacy for two reasons right from the beginging. Shaukat Hayat quoted by Ian Talbott says that the "The large West Punjab Muslim contingent in the Britsh Indian Army is a major reason for the Partition." IOW the Brits would not have decided on Partition but for the large armed forces component from that region. And the military knows that, they are one of the large unstated reasons for the Partition award.
Despite this the ball was snatched from their hands by the Civvies(claiming Muslim League etc got the award) right after Partition. Hence to get the primacy back they created the Kashmir issue so they are in the front seat and sometimes the driver seat. having taken the driver seat under Ayub khan and his ilk, the Army has became a vested interest in TSPA.

In TSP its Military-Civil Relations and not the other way around since 1947.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Shaashtanga » 26 Jan 2012 21:49

Belo mentioned bideo broves that Memogate is a Yindoo kaanspiracy to de-stabilise our l*nd-of-pure -
MANSOOR AIJAZ AT LONDON NIGHT CLUB WITH INDIAN FRIENDS


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 21:55

Here is something that I have believed for a long time and have stated repeatedly. I still stand by it.

  • Pakistan is anti-India - that includes military, jihadis and people
  • The US and the Pakistan military are allies
  • The US gives military aid and other aid predominantly weighted towards the Pakistan military in exchange for services
  • provided by the Pakistan military
  • The Pakistan military and jihadis are allies
  • The US and the jihadis are not allies. Not because the US won't tolerate them, but because jihadis don't like the US

The Pakistani military recruits from the Paki people. The military brass cannot go totally against the sentiment of the people. The anti-India stance of the Paki people has to be channelled into visible action against India. The policies of supporting terrorist groups, harboring criminals and printing fake currency are all aimed at the goals of
1. Keeping pressure on India
2. Keep India "bleeding"
3. Hope that Kashmir/India will fall into their hands by some magic some day.

Why doesn't the Paki military attack India directly? They do. They tried that in 1965. They expected to be able to weather 1971 against India. They tried again in 1999. Each time the policy was costly for the army causing internal political turmoil in Pakistan. So terrorism is considered the safest bet.

Why is terrorism the safest bet? Because it is cheap, it hurts India and is deniable, but is seen by Pakistanis as "victorious Islamic jihadis hurting the kafirs of India"

Why should Pakistan deny terrorism? Why not openly admit that they are sending terrorists? Because that would be the same as the state declaring open war, and open war with India has proven to be costly to the army. So the terrorism is covert.

Is the Pakistan military not afraid that India will figure out this game plan and attack anyway? The Pakistani calculus in this regard has been stated quite openly. If India attacks and hurts Pakistan beyond an unstated red line, they will use nukes. But the Pakistan military has also stated that because of the threat of nukes, the international community will step in early and vigorously to stop the war long before the use of nukes becomes likely. Believe it or not, the Pakistani military have actually stated as much in several articles - which some of you may have read.

Is the Pakistani army right in believing that the "International community" has the power to apply pressure and stop India if push comes to shove? Aren't they playing a dangerous game where they are threatening to provoke a war that may turn nuclear? Well, this is what is called as "negotiating with a gun held to your own head". As long as the US can be relied on the support the Pakistan army, I suspect that the Pakistan army can rely on the US to apply all sorts of pressures on India to lay off Pakistan?

is this an absolute certainty? Can the Pakistan army be absolutely certain that the US will get India to lay off? They are taking a risk, but they believe that as long as the US is dependent on Pakistan, the US will have no option other than to support the Pakistan army. In other words the Pakistani army is using the US for more than the US is getting from Pakistan.

For the first time in 60 years, 26/11, the Headley trial, Adm Mullen's accusation, the bin Laden raid and the NATO airstrike have made the Pakistani army worry that they cannot rely on the US to support them against India. The US too has openly said "India may retaliate if there is a repeat of Mumbai" (Whether India will do that is a different issue)

For these reasons the Pakistan military is actually "on the back foot" now.

The point I want to make is that the US is crucial to Pakistan's calculations. Pakistan has hinged its entire anti-India policy since 911 on the US. Prior to that the anti-India policy was based on "Freedom fighters of Kashmir" who were trained in the same camps as the Taliban. Pakistan was pretty much in control of Afghanistan from 1989 to 2001. Without US aid or the strategic depth afforded by Afghanistan, the Pakistan army will find war with India costly business. The US for its part was living on Cloud 9 from 1989 to 2001, patting itself on the back and saying "The end of all conflict. We are the world's only superpower" And Pakistan was allowed to control the Taliban. Naturally, terrorism in Kashmir from 1990 to 2001 was no skin off the US's nose.

After 9-11, the Pakistan army lost Afghanistan, but regained US support. Until last year. The Pakistan army will now do things to regain support of its population and the support of the US, or alternatively it will want the US out and try to control Afghanistan again.

In my view the key thing at this time is to expose the Pakistan army and try and reduce US aid to the army and at the same time offer support to anyone who is against the Pakistan army. It is my suspicion that this is India's policy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2012 22:16

Shiv, To add to your understanding, the TSP claims lack of US support on two specific instances, 1965 and 1999. In the first case the US imposed arms emabrgo on both India and Pakistan, whihc hurt TSP more. In 1999, US by keeping quiet supported India.
They claim both instances are betrayal, which implies some prior sub rosa understanding.

We should try to figure out why the US was equi-distant in both instances to better understand the dynamics.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby member_22286 » 26 Jan 2012 22:29

ramana wrote:Shiv, To add to your understanding, the TSP claims lack of US support on two specific instances, 1965 and 1999. In the first case the US imposed arms emabrgo on both India and Pakistan, whihc hurt TSP more. In 1999, US by keeping quiet supported India.
They claim both instances are betrayal, which implies some prior sub rosa understanding.

We should try to figure out why the US was equi-distant in both instances to better understand the dynamics.


Simple sir by being Equi-distant they are gaing more steering room and more opprotunities for themselves in the future for a better role.If US overwelmingly supported India during Kargil (they knew all the facts on the ground ) they would be loosing bargaing chips in the future.It is due to the equi-distant policy they maintained they were able to obtain some "co-operation" from Pakistan after 9/11.At the end of the day the US try's to make the best for itself in a given situation.It is the same for any other country realpolitik at its best

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 26 Jan 2012 22:32

ramana wrote:Shiv, To add to your understanding, the TSP claims lack of US support on two specific instances, 1965 and 1999. In the first case the US imposed arms emabrgo on both India and Pakistan, whihc hurt TSP more. In 1999, US by keeping quiet supported India.
They claim both instances are betrayal, which implies some prior sub rosa understanding.

We should try to figure out why the US was equi-distant in both instances to better understand the dynamics.


Ramana there are still big gaps in my understanding of why India is behaving the way it is. What India is doing (or not doing) is clear for all to see. But why? I have posted theories but there are still gaps in the theory. For example this theory that I wrote that the GoI is hoping to aggravate a civil military divide. The way I have written it makes it seem like its a big thing. But is it that big? I have no independent proof/corroboration unless I deliberately choose to believe the Aman ki Asha people. But as people on BRF have rightly pointed out, if we are going to believe the Aman ki Asha people why not give equal weightage to the Jamaat ud dawa or the other hostile scum from Pakistan? What makes the love of kandle kissers more credible than the venom of the usual Packee?

Is there an element of "high hopes" in the GoI's actions? Or is there some deeper game plan? Does that deeper game plan seek more cooperation with the US? Or is it something that seeks to neutralise US influence?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby svinayak » 26 Jan 2012 22:51

ramana wrote:RajeshA, The Khakees got primacy for two reasons right from the beginging. Shaukat Hayat quoted by Ian Talbott says that the "The large West Punjab Muslim contingent in the Britsh Indian Army is a major reason for the Partition." IOW the Brits would not have decided on Partition but for the large armed forces component from that region. And the military knows that, they are one of the large unstated reasons for the Partition award.
Despite this the ball was snatched from their hands by the Civvies(claiming Muslim League etc got the award) right after Partition. Hence to get the primacy back they created the Kashmir issue so they are in the front seat and sometimes the driver seat. having taken the driver seat under Ayub khan and his ilk, the Army has became a vested interest in TSPA.

In TSP its Military-Civil Relations and not the other way around since 1947.

This is right and also add the Anglo Indian families who are connected to this West Punjab Muslims for the last 200 years, who have ties to the Anglo common wealth countries. This is the reason that US and UK treat Pakistan differently than Indians. Also Chinese treat Pakistan differently.
Previous poster was asking question why the US and China treat Pakistan differently.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pankajs » 26 Jan 2012 23:03

Pakistan accuses Iran of killing 6 on border
QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) — Iranian security forces on Thursday killed six Pakistani traders taking goats into Iran, a Pakistani official said.

Iranian authorities were not immediately available for comment.

The incident happened Thursday on the Iranian side of the border near the Pakistani town of Gwadar, said its deputy commissioner Abdur Rehman.

Rehman said Iranian authorities were not releasing the bodies. He gave no more details.

Earlier this month, Iranian security personnel allegedly crossed into southwest Pakistan and killed one man.

There is occasional violence along the poorly marked border, where smuggling, banditry and terrorism are rife.

The incidents do not appear to have affected Islamabad's relations with Tehran, which are based on larger regional interests.

Pakistan's ties with Iran have ebbed and flowed over the last 20 years, dependent largely on developments elsewhere in a turbulent region, where Iran's archrivals Saudi Arabia and the United States have also sought influence. Sunni-Shia tensions within Pakistan have also been a factor.

Relations have been stable since the downfall of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan in 2002.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pankajs » 26 Jan 2012 23:12

Pakistan wants to work with India: Gilani
Pointing out that Pakistan has "excellent" relationship with India, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday said cooperation between the two to tackle climate change was "doable".
[...]
Earlier in his address, Gilani said Pakistan has been hit by "horrible" droughts and floods last year and sought a "global fund" to tackle the climate risk issues.

"It (climate change) is quite visible in my country. We have suffered both drought and heavy rains in past one year. It was horrible, not just by our estimates but also as per the estimates of World Bank and Asian Development Bank," Gilani said.

"There has to be global solution to these problems. The first step we can take is establishing a global fund to tackle the climate risk issues and Pakistan would be happy to partner," Gilani said.{By partnership I suppose he means pakis are ready with the begging bowl}
[...]
"If the glaciers in Himalayas melt, there will be huge floods in Pakistan," he said adding that Pakistan has taken some steps by creating a disaster management cell which he himself was overseeing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pgbhat » 26 Jan 2012 23:43

pankajs wrote:Pakistan accuses Iran of killing 6 on border
QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) — Iranian security forces on Thursday killed six Pakistani traders taking goats into Iran, a Pakistani official said.

As usual pacqui psy-ops onlee. They were probably peddling hashish/heroin. :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby jrjrao » 26 Jan 2012 23:48

The perfidy of the cunning hindoo banya knows no bounds.

First the banya decides to steal water from the Indus river, which belongs exclusively to only Pakisatan.

Next, the banya decides to build the Nimoo-Bazgo hydropower dam on the Indus, in sheer violation of the Indus Waters Treaty.

Then, the banya bribes and makes a traitor out of Syed Jammat Ali Shah, the then commissioner of the Pakistan Commission of Indus Water, who ate hindoo money, and then made no protests at all while Nimoo-Bazgo was being built quickly by the banya.

And to top it all, the banya has decided, that on completion of this illegal dam this year, which is built on a stolen Pakistani river, that 100% of this dam's electricity will be used by the banya hindoo soldiers in Siachen, who are waging war against Pakistan sarzameen and medina-e-sani.

So now, the banya has the water, the dam and the plentiful electricity in Siachen.

And Syed Jammat Ali Shah has gotten himself a happy canadian visa, from where he is making further plots with the banya.

But the ones screwed up are us -- the brave Pakisatanis... :((

http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=137222
Islamabad—Ministry of Water and Power has decided to widen the scope of probe into the scam of helping India to complete the Nimoo-Bazgo hydropower project and providing edge to Indian forces who are at war with Pakistan at Siachen as the whole electricity to be produced from the said project will be used by the Indian troops, a senior official told Pakistan Observer.


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