Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Yogi_G » 14 Feb 2012 18:52

anupmisra wrote:The real pa'astan?
According to Dafaa-ho-Pa'astan

THE complexity that is Pakistan was on full display over the weekend in Karachi. Yesterday, the Difaa-i-Pakistan Council held another sizeable rally, this time at a stone’s throw from Jinnah’s mausoleum. Speaker after speaker called for the reinvention of Pakistan in line with a muscular, reactionary and religion-driven nationalism.
The Pakistan envisioned by the DPC would be out of step with the modern world, harkening back to a mystical past whose recreation in present-day Pakistan would apparently be the solution to all that ails the country today. A narrative of hate, intolerance and xenophobia dressed up as ‘independent’ foreign and national-security policies is what was on offer at the DPC rally.
So which is the ‘real’ Pakistan, the one on display at the DPC rally or at the literature festival?


Didnt the k'rachi literary festival turn into an India-bashing free-for-all?


As I read the above, I felt it was the perfect example for the adage "The more things change, the more they remain the same".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby arun » 14 Feb 2012 21:36

US Embassy employee detained by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Pakistan frees US embassy employee held after bullets found in luggage

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 15 Feb 2012 01:52

Paaistan Pyasa Owrr Pagal, Hain Naa!
Indus and the ‘territorial trap’
THE arid world is in the throes of a water crisis. In Pakistan, where virtually all surface water comes from one river, it is natural that water anxieties revolve around the Indus River.The Indus is a transboundary stream governed between Pakistan and India through the Indus Waters Treaty of 1960. Celebrated by two generations of policy experts as a model of water diplomacy, the treaty has been subject to much acrimony, doubt and expert and lay speculation in the past decade. The underlying issue is that, for a number of reasons, water scarcity in the region has increased significantly over the past decade.Reactions to Indus scarcity in Pakistan can be grouped into three camps. The first I call the chauvinistic camp, represented best by the shrill cries of the Difa-i-Pakistan Council. The response of this group to every international issue, from drones to dams, is to posit a binary that holds up Pakistan as violated, and external actors (mainly the US, Israel, and India) as the violators. The solution they propose is all-out war in defence of the motherland, or at least making the threat of all-out war.In the second camp are the techno-utopians, who see technology as the cure for all social ills, who are represented by engineers, bureaucrats and some development professionals. Their proposed solutions include improving the efficiency of water delivery by lining canals and introducing drip irrigation, building more dams and drilling more wells.Finally, there are the optimistic managers, who believe that most international misunderstandings are a result of miscommunication and poorly designed institutions. This group is composed of economists, lawyers and some development professionals. Their solutions include the generation and sharing of better-quality data between Pakistan and India on Indus water flows, participatory water management and market-based reforms.
All three camps fall into what political geographer John Agnew has called the “territorial trap” — mistaking borders on maps for boxes that neatly partition and contain social and economic dynamics within the recognised territory of states. But, like the Indus River, social and political-economic relationships can and do transgress borders, even while being shaped by them.The seed technology the Green Revolution introduced to the Indus plains dramatically increased the amount of water needed to produce crops, and in this part of South Asia, at least, access to water is closely linked with ownership of land.About half of the rural households in Pakistan are today landless, while the top five per cent of households own more than a third of the cultivated area. A recent article on smallholder agriculture in Indian Punjab tells a similar story: about 200,000 small farmers have sold or leased their land to larger farms and have joined the ranks of landless agricultural labourers, migrated to cities, or even taken the desperate recourse of committing suicide. In other words, the people who need water the most are unable to get it because of uneven property and class relationshipsBut if the Indus dispute matters to us because of its implications for food security, analysing the situation in terms of Pakistan vs India simply will not do.As decades of social science research from around the world teaches us, there is no reason why throwing technology or (ostensibly) apolitical policy solutions at a problem won’t actually increase insecurity and vulnerability of the poorest. I do not reject other types of analyses in their totality: technology, policy and diplomacy are of course very important. But even the most inspired solution will fall flat on its face, and possibly exacerbate the situation, if we close our eyes to political economy and geography, and thereby fall prey to the territorial and hydrologic traps.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 15 Feb 2012 02:01

Poaq in the Smart Cap

Mending fences with India
Sixty-four years of hostility and confrontation between Pakistan and India have produced a myopic mindset on both sides of the divide. Such is the overwhelming influence of persistently advanced naive perceptions that it is difficult to espouse a balanced position in this unnecessary and debilitating tug of war. If the conflict between the two countries is centred around Kashmir, then a few basic questions must be answered.Is it in Pakistan’s long-term interest to hold relations hostage to the “resolution” of the Kashmir dispute and continue to pay a heavy price in the shape of abject poverty? And, more importantly, are the teeming millions of poor peasants, farm workers, traders, small-time shopkeepers, landowners, factory workers from the interior of Sindh, from the heartland of Punjab, from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, even Karachi, have any stake in this policy of confrontation based on Kashmir? Are these downtrodden millions not concerned more with issues such as security, education for their children, healthcare, worsening law and order, corruption, economic opportunities and, above all, access to justice, rather than with Kashmir?This is not to suggest that a solution to Kashmir should be put on the backburner. Indeed, there is no further room for delay as the valley is on the boil and not a day passes when people are not detained, abducted, wounded or killed. Status quo is no longer an option.

India has often reiterated that, short of independence, there is no limit to the possible options that could be considered. Therefore, perhaps it is time for it to take unilateral constitutional measures to confer complete autonomy on the state within the Indian Union. That would mean allowing the state to enjoy an autonomous status exercising control over its revenues and expenditure and all subjects like communication, health and education, as well as establishing trade missions in foreign countries. It would mean a status like that of Hong Kong and Macau vis-a-vis China. In other words, there would be one state, two systems. It will be linked to India in the matter of defence and foreign policy.

This would pave the way for the withdrawal of Indian troops from Kashmir and also facilitate troop withdrawal from Azad Kashmir, on which a similar status can be conferred. Borders would become irrelevant; trade would be able to flow freely and people enabled to visit the other part of Kashmir without restriction. If any breakthrough is achieved on these lines, it would have profound and far- reaching implications for the region and the world. Any resolution of the dispute would unleash an unstoppable dynamic for change. There would be a marked decrease in defence spending, which would release billions of dollars for poverty-eradication, education and healthcare, and progress in agriculture and Industry.
A favourable climate would be created for an agreement on water-sharing in the spirit of accommodation. ( Hai Panni , Hai Paani. Pani nahi Poaq Paanini banegi between india and Afghanistan) India is confronting the awesome challenges of poverty, the Naxalite rebellion and a society founded on the caste system. It is not in India’s interest to destabilise Pakistan. A destabilised Pakistan would pose more dangers to India’s democratic institutions. :rotfl: Unburdened of the festering wound of Kashmir, the two South Asian neighbours can make a tremendous contribution to peace and prosperity in the region. In fact, together India and Pakistan can change the world


(The writer is a former ambassador quitting Jihad and hope of jannat)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby ramana » 15 Feb 2012 04:40

Pak still holding OBL family
Must be to prevent their perfidy being revealed.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby kenop » 15 Feb 2012 05:51

So, the Indian Trade show finished. The stolen diamond recovered too.
And old news
Same story
KARACHI: Pakistan Tuesday deferred its decision to finalize a list of goods it does not want to import from India, an important step towards granting it the most favoured nation (MFN) status.

Once the MFN status is granted, Pakistan will have to treat India on par with its other favoured trading partners.

India unilaterally gave MFN status to Pakistan in 1996.

Business leaders who are accompanying Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma on a visit to Pakistan expressed disappointment over the decision.did you really expect anything?

"This is of course disappointing," Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) president R.V. Kanoria said.Come again some other time

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby pgbhat » 15 Feb 2012 06:31

idiots...we have some more monkey's tamasha going on here...
United we stand: Pakistan, India students
STUDENTS’ CHARTER



• Easier visa regime for all

• Accurate portrayal of each other in the media

• Visa on arrival for students :rotfl:

• Student exchange programmes

• More admission facilities for Pakistan students in Indian institutions

• Revival of cricketing ties

• Exchange of musicians, artists and other cultural ambassadors

• Creation of a permanent platform where students from both countries can interact

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 06:45

pgbhat wrote:idiots...we have some more monkey's tamasha going on here...
United we stand: Pakistan, India students


Another one proffered, “Who will buy their weapons if there is peace?”

+1 to that.

Exactly who will offload US and Chinese weapons? The weapons will then have to be supplied as "gifts" and "aid", so that US tax money can be recycled from US taxpayer to US arms industry via Pakistan. Which is what happened from 2001 to 2012.

What are your tax dollars doing? Helping Pakistanis fight Islamic terrorism, injustice and the forces of Hindu religious bigotry. Amen to that. God save America.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 15 Feb 2012 07:18

Sindh`s history full of contradictions: experts
Djinnah ka Djinn

Dr Qazi Khadim another intellectual said Maulai Sheedai was successful in conducting a detailed research on Sindh`s history with the assistance of Sindh University and Sindhi Adabi Board. The work is found to be without any religious bias.Chairperson, SLA, Dr Fehmida Hussain said that Maulai Sheedai began his career by writing columns in Sitara Sindh and in 1950 became Editor of daily Halal-e-Pakistan. He had the honour of writing the history of Balochistan in 1941.The histories of Sindh written by Arabs, Iranians and English are all full of falsehood and contradictions, she said. The history written after the inception of Pakistan wrongly depicts the heroes as villains she said and called upon the historian to correct it for the coming generations.Novelist Ghulam Nabi Mughal commending death commemoration at the government level said that Chach Nama, Jannat-i-Sindh and Tareekh-i-Tahiri were important books on the history of Sindh but in Chach Nama, Arab conquerors wrote the history as per their own perceptions.Director, Culture Department, Dr Mohammad Ali Manjhi read a message of Culture Minister Sassui Palijo wherein she promised to get the remaining work of Maulai Sheedai published as one book was already under publication. She announced construction of a mausoleum soon.
Last edited by Prem on 15 Feb 2012 07:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 07:18

pgbhat wrote:idiots...we have some more monkey's tamasha going on here...
United we stand: Pakistan, India students


One more quote
“It’s the monkey who gets the cake when two cats fight for it.” There are powers that do not want to see friendship between India and Pakistan, he said. “We must not fall for their manipulations.”


When Hindus and Muslims fight, it is the American Church that benefits.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby CRamS » 15 Feb 2012 07:37

Here is my take. US is of course propping up TSP, no doubt about it. But it is TSP's unbridled hostility to India that US is harnessing. Now the solution to that is not WKKitis that DocJi has suddenly got afflicted with. Which meas ignore pigLeTs and kiss up to to TSP Aman ki Tamasha like these Indian students, because then US cannot sell arms to TSP; but assert India's interests, and if TSP goes along fine, or else India must be prepared to fight. Of course this is easier said than done, but there has got to be something between outright going to war with TSP/US, and shamefully surrendering to TSP. I mean what were all these 60+ years for? What next? DocJi is going to say India must hand over Kashmir valley to TSP so that US cannot sell any more arms to TSP? Why not go all the way? Let TSP fly their green flag over the red fort. Let TFTA Pakijabis and Pathans lord over us "Chanakyan" SDREs because then US won't be able to take advantage of Pakijabi hostility.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 07:46

CRamS wrote:What next? DocJi is going to say India must hand over Kashmir valley to TSP so that US cannot sell any more arms to TSP?


In fact that is what the USA wants India to do. Instability in this world is caused by the twin forces of Hindu right wing resurgence and Islamic terrorism. It is only the USA that fights both Islamic terrorism and helps moderate forces combat the forces of the Hindu right wing. Imagine what the world would be if your tax dollar were not put to good use supporting forces who hold Hindu AND Muslim extremism at bay? And what's more, our men and women, black and white, gay and straight, Catholic, Protestant and atheist at work in our arms factories retain their jobs and America retains its competitiveness and predominance. God bless America.

I agree with that.
Last edited by shiv on 15 Feb 2012 07:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby member_22733 » 15 Feb 2012 07:48

^^^ Time for me to start drinking again... this time out of kanphoosan.

EDIT: I had my sarcasm Radar switched off for Shiv's post because of their nature. But this one should have been a big blip on sarcasm radar screen. Apologies for the post.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 08:12

On a simple logical level let me state some observations.

First, I am a secular Indian and I will not bring up anything about Hindu-Muslim relations in India.

Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims

Why should Hindus of India hate Pakistanis?
  • Because Pakistanis attack India and falsely accuse Hindus of hating Muslims

Do Indian Hindus hate Pakistani Muslims?

  • Only so long as Muslims hate Hindus. The Quran teaches Muslims to fight against all Non Muslims and as soon as Muslims give up the Quran, Hindus will stop hating Muslims

What will happen if Muslims of Pakistan and Hindus of India magically stop hating each other?
  • Not a lot. Well at best they may not fight

What will happen if the Muslims of Pakistan and the Hindus of India continue to hate each other?
  • Islamic extremism represents a great threat to the post cold war world. The end of the cold war seemed to promise the start of a new era of peace and stability in a world that had seen nearly a century of hostility. But the forces of Islamic extremism rudely awakened the world with a dastardly attack on the Twin Towers in America. These Islamic extremists successfully fought off the evil Soviet empire, but the rise of the Hindu right wing in India and the development of nuclear weapons by the Hindu right wing BJP government in India threatened stability in the region. Pakistan which is a quarter of India's size and has fought four wars with India, losing half of its country in a war. Pakistan is naturally threatened by the rise of Hindu India. the "Hindutva" that is on the rise in India is a deadly venomous force. The very forces that conceived of the racist concepts of caste and untouchability are now threatening stability in the region.

    Pakistan has reacted to India's hegemonic aims by retaining the Islamic forces that won the cold war as a way of protecting itself against Hindu India, but those very forces threaten to overwhelm Pakistan

    The US has a key role to play here. On the one hand it is in the interest of the USA, and in the interests of freedom and democracy that the forces of islamic extremism be fought. But that fight cannot be won without the US fighting to suppress the bigoted forces of the Hindu right wing that is responsible for at least half the problems of the region, threatening teh very existence of Muslims in places like Cashmere. The USA must play a stabilizing role, holding Pakistan's head above the water while checking India. The US represents peace, freedom and strength and both Islam and Hindu forces are a threat. America's role is to protect the world against these twin threats.

Does peace between the Hindus of India and the Muslims of Pakistan mean that India gives up its territory?
  • Of course. That will have to be a prerequisite because Pakistani Muslims will accept nothing less than that

Will India ever give up territory to Pakistan?
  • It has done so in the past and may do so again especially if there is friendship with Pakistan.

What is the consequence of continued hostility between India and Pakistan?
  • That has been answered above in response to the question "What will happen if the Muslims of Pakistan and the Hindus of India continue to hate each other?"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 15 Feb 2012 08:24

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/pakistan-s-musharraf-has-been-accused-of-knowing-osama-bin-laden-s-hideout.html

Pakistan’s Musharraf Has Been Accused of Knowing Osama bin Laden’s Hideout

The article is by Bruce Riedel, so posting it here. The interesting thing to note is that Riedel has called for questioning Musharraf next time he lands in the US. So this "revelation" could just be Mush's political enemies making sure that he is denied a base in the US. Nevertheless, Mush would think twice before going to the US now.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 08:32

Interestingly Narendra Modi was refused a visa to the US for his support to Hindu extremism. The US is at the forefront of the battle to contain Hindu and Islamic extremism. God bless America, its moderation, prosperity and fair judgement.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 15 Feb 2012 08:38

^^^
And how is that related to TSP dhaaga?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Venkarl » 15 Feb 2012 08:42

Shiv Gaaru..Something bit you? :-?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 08:42

Anujan wrote:^^^
And how is that related to TSP dhaaga?


Only to show that the US, while fighting Islamic extremism in the form of finding out who supported Osama bin Laden, is also fair and balanced in handling the Hindu extremists who cause a great deal of instability and anger in Pakistan. Part of the region's instability is Pakistan's paranoia that is being provoked by the Hindu right wing of India. Even as the US pursues its delicate task of getting the extremist supporters of Osama out of Pakistan, the US must not make the ordinary Pakistani worry that Hindu extremism will be allowed to rise to Pakistan's detriment

To my mind the connection and relevance are perfectly clear.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 08:43

Venkarl wrote:Shiv Gaaru..Something bit you? :-?


Only reality. And the cognitive dissonance of a population of dhimmis who are being made jackasses. Guess which country is hunting with the hounds and running with the hares in the name of freedom and democracy?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Raja Bose » 15 Feb 2012 08:48

pgbhat wrote:
STUDENTS’ CHARTER

• More admission facilities for Pakistan students in Indian institutions


Why no reciprocal admission facilities for Indian students in Pakistani institutions? :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 15 Feb 2012 08:48

Bose Mian, They will want indian students joining the Djinna established Binori Insitituion of Jihadi Technology.
I get it ,
Secular Nazis spoiling the image of Peaceful Repubelic of Pakistan . Pakistan is a Natural born country of peace, its onlee few misguided Non State Actors giving Pakistan of Peacefull people bad name.
Last edited by Prem on 15 Feb 2012 08:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 08:51

Raja Bose wrote:
pgbhat wrote:


Why no reciprocal admission facilities for Indian students in Pakistani institutions? :mrgreen:


India has its own Madarsas

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 15 Feb 2012 09:01

Okay here are a few ground truths:

1. US is an imperial power. She hasnt hesitated in shaping the internal politics and external dynamics of countries around the world to suit her interests. Examples are many, and they range from Korea to Vietnam to Grenada, Panama, Taiwan to the entire continent of South America. We all know that.

2. India is an awkward power (notice that I am avoiding the use of the word “timid”). Who awkardy applies national resources towards shaping other countries in her periphery. Our failures are many. They range from Nepal, to Sri lanka to Maldives to Burma to Bangladesh. Where we have either not intervened or did so in half hearted manner. When we have set our minds on it, we have succeeded. Examples include Bhutan, Sikkim, Bangladesh and Maldives.

3. Pakistan is an irredentist power. They have meddled in Central asia, Afghanistan, India, Nepal, Bangladesh. Their terrorists are world famous from Dagestan to Yemen.

Arguing that India hasnt been able to do anything to Pakistan Solely because of US & Western support to Pakistan is total nonsense. This is because of two reasons

1. Refer to my point (2) above. In addition, note that 3 things happened in our History from 1947 till today. For the first 30 years, Indians confused Muslim with Pakistani. I dont want to go into distasteful details about how Muslim officers of IAF were made to peel potatoes in 1965 and 71. Let me also remind you that as recently as 3 years back, Shivraj Patil suggested that if India hangs Afzal Guru, Pakistan might hang Sarabjit Singh. So India was careful in her objectives vis-a-vis Pakistan. For the next 20 years, India had no money. And in the years following that, Pakis had nukes.

2. Pakistan has courted the support of every nation on earth, single mindedly to get one-upmanship over India. Dovetailing with the argument that “US propped up Pakistan” is the argument (by the Pakis) “US used Pakistan”. Both are only half true. The real truth is the love-fest was two sided. Pakistan has courted Libya, Saudi Arabia, UAE, (so much so that these good folks vote against us in international fora), Turkey, Egypt, China, Sri Lanka, Nepal and yes, US and UK. The screwing was two-way and consensual. Remove any one country from the list, and Pakis will fill it up with 3 more.

So we have three factors. 1. We are citizens of a country, who does not believe in robustly projecting her power internationally. In addition we confuse our own Muslim population with Pakistanis. 2. Pakistan believes in robust power projection even at the cost of her own survival. 3. US is in the business of power projection.

The question is, how do we proceed.

All other complicated stories are psycho-babble. Lets move on.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby anupmisra » 15 Feb 2012 09:06

ramana wrote:Pak still holding OBL family
Must be to prevent their perfidy being revealed.


Or prevent OBL's kids from pursuing better quality education in the west. After all, who will foot the college bill?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 09:08

Anujan wrote:
1. US is an imperial power.

2. India is an awkward power

3. Pakistan is an irredentist power.


Once you make these classifications, you have already decided the past and future behaviour of these countries. Once you do that, anything you say is correct within the framework you have built. I have no such convenient framework to work with.

Anujan wrote:All other complicated stories are psycho-babble. Lets move on.


Only I have to move on. You have the answers, as quoted by you. I am the person who has to deal with complications. The simple explanations are yours.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Pranav » 15 Feb 2012 09:32

shiv wrote:Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims


Actually, because the subcontinent, instead of rightfully being returned to the Musalmans by the departing Brits, was handed over to the accursed higher caste Hindus, who practice idol worship in dark and narrow places.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 09:40

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims


Actually, because the subcontinent, instead of rightfully being returned to the Musalmans by the departing Brits, was handed over to the accursed higher caste Hindus, who practice idol worship in dark and narrow places.


The accursed higher caste Hindus of course are racists who do subjugate non-Aryan minorities even in India, apart from conducting periodic pogroms against Muslims. To that extent Pakistan is justified in seeking, and receiving the help of "Imperial power" USA to retain their imperial control and "balance out" the Hindus using their money and obvious supremacy.

In a strange way, the subcontinent will be free of imperialism only when the US goes out. It was correct all along to point out that India fought for and got independence from the British. Pakistanis got Pakistan. They neither fought for, not got freedom from imperialism, which they retain

I find these two narratives and the way they connect up, very interesting. 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby nachiket » 15 Feb 2012 10:30

shiv wrote:The accursed higher caste Hindus of course are racists who do subjugate non-Aryan minorities even in India, apart from conducting periodic pogroms against Muslims. To that extent Pakistan is justified in seeking, and receiving the help of "Imperial power" USA to retain their imperial control and "balance out" the Hindus using their money and obvious supremacy.

In a strange way, the subcontinent will be free of imperialism only when the US goes out. It was correct all along to point out that India fought for and got independence from the British. Pakistanis got Pakistan. They neither fought for, not got freedom from imperialism, which they retain

I find these two narratives and the way they connect up, very interesting. 8)

Either your account has been hacked or your pisko experiments are getting to the point where even you don't know the difference between your actual opinion and meaningless piskology.

Please read the excellent ebook written by a certain BRF member named Dr. Shiv wherein the reality of Pakistan is so lucidly described. 8)

Aditya_V
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Feb 2012 10:39

Shiv to put your equation in the simple way fromt eh US point of view

Hindus= Bad

Muslims= Better than Bad Hindus

Pakistan = Muslims. India = Bad Hindus, therefore Pakistan Better than EVil Hindu India.

Or from Uber Secular in India. Hindu= Evil Superstitious, Muslim= good, Therefore Pakistan is good.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby jamwal » 15 Feb 2012 10:43

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims


Actually, because the subcontinent, instead of rightfully being returned to the Musalmans by the departing Brits, was handed over to the accursed higher caste Hindus, who practice idol worship in dark and narrow places.

They don't need hatred of anyone in order to hate anyone in particular. If it was not the partition related rona-dhona, which was entirely their own fault anyway, they'd have invented something else. You will find numerous examples all over the world, including India

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 15 Feb 2012 10:52

More on the Duffer-e-Pukistan Council rally in Karachi:

(Don't have to click the links unless you strongly want to)

JI labels Pakistan Army ‘mercenary’ and wants to do a sit-in on Feb 20 at Parade Avenue to protest against the possible reopening of the NATO supplies to Afghanistan through Pakistan.

Also, Govt should break away from Pak-US partnership, says Hafiz Saeed

Further, Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf’s (PTI) senior vice-president Ejaz Chaudhry was also present at the Duffer-e-Pukistan rally

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 15 Feb 2012 11:11

This link shows OBLs kids and grand kids - amazing how little they are. if someone can post an image inline it would help for posterity.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby abhijitm » 15 Feb 2012 12:23

arun wrote:US Embassy employee detained by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Pakistan frees US embassy employee held after bullets found in luggage

Since when carrying arms in pakistan is illegal? Officially, yes. But then there is nothing official about pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby UBanerjee » 15 Feb 2012 12:45

shiv wrote:On a simple logical level let me state some observations.

First, I am a secular Indian and I will not bring up anything about Hindu-Muslim relations in India.

Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims

If the first step is false, what follows is also false.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Feb 2012 12:51

UBanerjee wrote:
shiv wrote:On a simple logical level let me state some observations.

First, I am a secular Indian and I will not bring up anything about Hindu-Muslim relations in India.

Why do Muslims of Pakistan hate India?
  • Because Hindus are accused of hating and subjugating Muslims

If the first step is false, what follows is also false.


Good Point, But the first step in spite of AMan Ki Asha has been proved to be a correct surmise.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby negi » 15 Feb 2012 13:17

Anujan wrote: For the first 30 years, Indians confused Muslim with Pakistani. I dont want to go into distasteful details about how Muslim officers of IAF were made to peel potatoes in 1965 and 71. Let me also remind you that as recently as 3 years back, Shivraj Patil suggested that if India hangs Afzal Guru, Pakistan might hang Sarabjit Singh.


So we have three factors. 1. We are citizens of a country, who does not believe in robustly projecting her power internationally. In addition we confuse our own Muslim population with Pakistanis. 2. Pakistan believes in robust power projection even at the cost of her own survival. 3. US is in the business of power projection.
[

Yes these make perfect sense and explain why lunatic Gandhi behaved the way he did in that time; the inherent distrust of our own countrymen i.e. the muslims is what makes Con party and pseudo secularists view and dice every topic or issue from islamist angle . Their whole decision making is driven by one syndrome i.e.'Musalman kya sochenge'. This also explains why Mr. Integrity MMS has to clarify and emphasize upon IM's having the first right on every national resource on republic day.

So India (as in the bunch of faggots that have ruled it since independence) is not an awkward power , but instead a confused state.


We as a nation have failed to assimilate Muslims it is a naked truth; behenchods that secularists are go out of the way to ostensibly accomodate the former for hiding the big chip on their shoulders.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby harbans » 15 Feb 2012 14:34

Another one proffered, “Who will buy their weapons if there is peace?”


There is a big difference in the way an Islamist Paki see's peace and a normal Indian. While the Indian when you mention peace thinks 'Ishwar, Allah ..sabko sanmati de Bhagwan' type images, the Islamist in Pakistan would think of Peace after the green flag flies over the red fort. It is completely against the DNA of Islam to be powerful and be ruled by a non-muslim. Hiding behind the rhetoric of peace is not going to help India. The Taliban are fighting a just fight in Pakistan. They simply want the 7th century Sharia which the GoP does not want. Things are changing and they are beginning to eliminate the Salman Taseers etc in the way of implementing a purer version of the 7th century. Talib Afghanistan was peaceful, the only things which destroyed peace were irritants like the Bamiyan. Idols, images after all enrage the true believer and thus for peace they have to be blasted away. India and Pakistan when we talk peace are really talking past each other.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 14:44

Aditya_V wrote:Shiv to put your equation in the simple way fromt eh US point of view

Hindus= Bad

Muslims= Better than Bad Hindus

Pakistan = Muslims. India = Bad Hindus, therefore Pakistan Better than EVil Hindu India.

Or from Uber Secular in India. Hindu= Evil Superstitious, Muslim= good, Therefore Pakistan is good.

Actually its not exactly like that. From the US viewpoint the Muslims are not good either. In fact good or bad are not relevant as long as they fight each other.

But let me come to that obliquely.

If Pakistanis believe that they are the descendants of the Mughal empire that lorded over all of India for all of 1000 years do you believe that history as narrated by Pakistanis?

I don't believe the Pakistani version of history.
  • Pakistanis are not inheritors of the Mughal "empire" such as there existed
  • The empire that goes by that name never lorded over all of India and its rule over a large part of India was brief
  • The 1000 year rule is for Sindh and Baluchistan only. Not all of India

If Pakistanis are now loudly announcing that fake history are they the only people doing it? Have they cooked up that history on their own? No. The same fake history comes to us also from our own brothers and sisters the leftist historians of India. Where did Pakistanis and Indian leftist historians learn this fake history of India?

The fake history of India was the one written by British historians. That fake history has "taught" Hindus that they were inferior and subjugated, casteist and unable to form a nation. That fake history taught Muslims that they ruled over Hindus for 1000 years. It suited the racist British scholarship of the day to believe in the inferiority of the Hindu races and the loyal Islamic Gunga Dins - people of the book were given a history that fitted in with the British scholarship of the day.

The white Christians of Europe were the true masters. The greatest races. The Hindus who were low down - having sunk from a high in Vedic times were conquered by the Mussalmans who ruled them for 1000 years. But the superior Brits ended that Mussalman rule. The hierarchy decided by God himself fitted in well with the social world views of the day. This was "real history" not some mumbo jumbo by the inferior Hindus who had "no tradition of history. My narrative is history. Your narrative is bullshit. Not history.

This is where history was when Pakistan was formed. The superiority of the Mussalman over the Hindu and his lording it over Hindus itself was contrived cooked up history. But it was not cooked up by the Mughals, or Allama Iqbal or Djinnah. It was the same bullshit Macaulayite British history fed to the people who formed Pakistan as much as the people who later became Indian historians.

If you remove the British version of history, what is the true nature of the relationship between Muslims and Hindus of India? What sources do you dip into when you quote alternate history that is not a British narrative? We have Al Beruni from 1000 years ago but after that? What sources do we have? Or have all sources of Indian history been covered up by the British version?

History as we learn it today has an important effect on how Hindus and Muslims view each other. If that history was cooked up by the British to a greater or lesser extent to suit their world view, what is the real nature of the relationship between Muslims and Hindus in India?
Last edited by shiv on 15 Feb 2012 15:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2012 14:53

harbans wrote:
Another one proffered, “Who will buy their weapons if there is peace?”


There is a big difference in the way an Islamist Paki see's peace and a normal Indian. While the Indian when you mention peace thinks 'Ishwar, Allah ..sabko sanmati de Bhagwan' type images, the Islamist in Pakistan would think of Peace after the green flag flies over the red fort. It is completely against the DNA of Islam to be powerful and be ruled by a non-muslim. Hiding behind the rhetoric of peace is not going to help India.


My problem is as follows. If India and Pakistan are at war, then i would prefer to see that war fought without Pakistanis being able to run to anyone for protection. If Indians are too dense to understand that I will keep talking about it until that denseness is worn thin and people start seeing the light. Islam is currently ruled by the white Christian west so it is wrong to say that they will not be ruled by anyone. Only Iran is outside that rule. And maybe Al Qaeda and Hezbollah. The India threat or a fake, cooked up India threat suits both the White Christian west (USA) as well as the Pakistani army to unite. Each for their own reasons. Islam per se is not India's enemy. It may not be the best thing since Apple Pie (or Bhel Puri) but it can be modulated and controlled. Our ability to modulate it in India is completely different from our ability to modulate it in former India (Pakistan). Pakistan's allies, especially the US has a big role to play in keeping the pot boiling.

We should be modulating Islam in Pakistan, not the US.


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