Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

RajeshA wrote:
shiv wrote:Can we entice the Pakistanis to give us a route to Afghanistan and Iran and then invite the Russians and others to use that route?
And let them blackmail us in all eternity? Naw!
But shouldn't we be like America? America is doing exactly that and being blackmailed, but it is Indians who are spineless? We need to show spine. Instead we hope Israelis, Americans or Russians will do our job.
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by CRamS »

Jihadi Lodhi warning India that TSP will resume pigLeT operations if we don't deliver Kashmir. Maybe India should behave like US as DocJi suggests, and hand over Kashmir in a bold Chanakyan move that will entice the Pakistanis to give us a route to Afghanistan.
JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1345
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by JohnTitor »

shiv wrote:But shouldn't we be like America? America is doing exactly that and being blackmailed, but it is Indians who are spineless? We need to show spine. Instead we hope Israelis, Americans or Russians will do our job.
+1

I do not know why no one in our country has geopolitical sense, everything the babus do seems so short sighted. The recent support for EU-trade issues provided to Pak is just one example (in exchange for MFN status that is yet to come).

There is a lack of strategic thinking within the government. Its much better than it used to be (post independence when Nehru naively believed the world was all goody-goody, remember the "we don't want the UNSC seat as it rightfully belongs to our northern neighbor" rubbish that costed us the seat at the big table), but we still have a long way to go!

I feel this stems from the inherent corrupt nature of these people, but it is indeed saddening to see a great nation such as ours being held down by spineless babus.
Last edited by JohnTitor on 21 Feb 2012 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by SSridhar »

CRamS wrote:Jihadi Lodhi warning India that TSP will resume pigLeT operations if we don't deliver Kashmir.
I won't take Maleeha Lodhi's 'warning' lightly. In fact, she doesn't need to issue any warning to us. Anybody who follows the fortunes of Imran Khan would know what is in store for us when he comes to power. With him at the helm, it will be much worse for us than the support that jihadi Islamists enjoyed under MMA's & Musharraf's patronage during 2002-2007.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by SSridhar »

Shonu wrote:. . . everything the babus do seems so short sighted. . . . but it is indeed saddening to see a great nation such as ours being held down by spineless babus.
Shonu, why do you blame poor babus when they simply implement the policy decisions taken by Ms. Sonia Gandhi or Mr. MMS or Mr. Mani Shankar Ayyar or Mr. Vajpayee et al ?

But, wait and watch this space. The politicians are in a great deceptive, Chanakyan game with Pakistan. Fog will clear suddenly and you are going to be pleasantly surprised one fine morning. Let us first work on our economy for the next two decades.
Brad Goodman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2426
Joined: 01 Apr 2010 17:00

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Brad Goodman »

shiv wrote: Bombing a country back to the stone age is a joke. Vast areas of Pakistan still live in stone age conditions.

.
Shiv ji if you want to kill a beast you dont have to break every bone in the animals body. To borrow ayub khans post couple of blows in right place is good enough

Made in Pakistan

some context to article
Imagine India and Pakistan a few decades ago. Someone in Pakistan would be wearing shoes imported from Italy, smoking a cigar imported from Cuba and driving a car imported from Germany. That Pakistani, who certainly was fortunate and perhaps not representative of the general population in most ways, would glance over to his neighbouring Indian counterpart and think how better things were in Pakistan. The Indians were driving these wretched TATA cars which were not only poor in performance but looked pathetic. The Indians didn’t have the best shoes or the best cigars or any of the best brands in anything. Yet, while Pakistan was turning itself into a showroom for the world and becoming a retailer, India was building capacity and becoming a manufacturer.
here is the part that might interest you
What perhaps makes this situation worse is the disproportionate spending or buying power that is prevalent in our society. Pakistan spends most of its money in the big metropolitan areas. It is not wrong to say that the most amount of consumer money is spent on MM Alam Road, Zamzama, Defence, Jinnah Super or Super and other similar areas across Pakistan. The focus of the upper middle class and elite makes it worse for the entire economy, because in essence they are earning the most money from within Pakistan and exporting it off in a fascination of imported products.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

Brad Goodman wrote:
shiv wrote: Bombing a country back to the stone age is a joke. Vast areas of Pakistan still live in stone age conditions.

.
Shiv ji if you want to kill a beast you dont have to break every bone in the animals body. To borrow ayub khans post couple of blows in right place is good enough

Made in Pakistan

What perhaps makes this situation worse is the disproportionate spending or buying power that is prevalent in our society. Pakistan spends most of its money in the big metropolitan areas. It is not wrong to say that the most amount of consumer money is spent on MM Alam Road, Zamzama, Defence, Jinnah Super or Super and other similar areas across Pakistan. The focus of the upper middle class and elite makes it worse for the entire economy, because in essence they are earning the most money from within Pakistan and exporting it off in a fascination of imported products.
Brad, I see a fallacy in this view for the following reason. The easiest way for me to express it would be to say "Look at Iraq" or at least look what was done to Iraq. Iraq was almost literally bombed back into the stone age by selectively attacking urban centers holding the urban elite supporters of Saddam.

Until recently the wealthy urban elite of Pakistan have been staunch allies of the USA and the "bombing" that the USA does is restricted to the people in way out rural areas who are already in the stone age. The US's enmity is with many people in Pakistan, not the elite, who are allies of the US. The US has helped create and enrich that elite as part of its "influence" over Pakistan. Neither the Paki elite nor the USA are greatly interested in the welfare of the Pakistanis who remain in the stone age.

The problem about the latter is that they cannot be bombed back any further in time. As far as the US is concerned it is the stone agers who need bombing, not the elite who show all the "modernity" and "moderation" that the US loves. If the US bombs the former, they lose the only friends they have, the elite.

The article you have posted starts off promisingly, but degenerates into Paki bullshitting. What is needed is not pride in the leather footballs that Pakistan produces but education of a vast mass who can be employed in skilled industry to produce goods that Pakis will be proud to consume.

Is India going to bomb Paki urban areas into the Stone age. i would love to see precision Brahmos/Prithvi/Prahaar attacks on the houses of wealthy criminals in Pakistan. But ultimately the US and China supplied F-16s and JF-17 are to protect the elite and not the stone agers. The Pakistani armed forces cheerfully accept US raids on their own stone agers knowing that that is a completely useless exercise.
Sri
BRFite
Posts: 1332
Joined: 18 May 2005 20:19
Location: Earth

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Sri »

SSridhar wrote: Shonu, why do you blame poor babus when they simply implement the policy decisions taken by Ms. Sonia Gandhi or Mr. MMS or Mr. Mani Shankar Ayyar or Mr. Vajpayee et al ?

But, wait and watch this space. The politicians are in a great deceptive, Chanakyan game with Pakistan. Fog will clear suddenly and you are going to be pleasantly surprised one fine morning. Let us first work on our economy for the next two decades.

SS Sir, +1. Time has not yet come. Lets keep chanting good doggy nice doggy for sometime.

Recently I was stuck by what one of the Directors of a top Indian B school told me. he had just come back from Karachi and Lahore. he told me that only by visiting Pakistan he understood how far India has come. Of course he told the reason in typical academician way.

It is better to be spineless for sometime then to box ourselves in corner by fake bravado and macho-ism.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/baluc ... oy/914555/
Meanwhile, a media report said the US has been pushing Pakistan for permission to establish bases in Baluchistan for intelligence operations against bordering Iran. The “outburst in America for Baluchistan”, including the resolution introduced in the US Congress is part of the move to set up intelligence bases close to the Iranian border, an Pakistani unnamed official was quoted as saying by The Express Tribune newspaper.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

CRamS wrote:Jihadi Lodhi warning India that TSP will resume pigLeT operations if we don't deliver Kashmir. Maybe India should behave like US as DocJi suggests, and hand over Kashmir in a bold Chanakyan move that will entice the Pakistanis to give us a route to Afghanistan.
Inevitably our conversation turns to what could happen if the young find that no one is listening to them. Again reinforcing what many Kashmiris have been warning in recent years, Waheed says: “the gun will again be seen as an option”. And this, he says will be altogether different from the violence of the 1990s. If Kashmiri youth see no hope, a “devastating outcome” awaits that no one will be able to control.
Bullshit. Why are Americans scared of empty threats by some oiseaule living in Britain? If they pick up teh gun they wil get it back right in the middle of the forehead.

By the way CRamS - I note that you accuse me of wanting to hand Kashmir to Pakis. Not sure why you need to cook up things that I have not said. Are you so angry at exposing the weaknesses of your nation that you need to take it out on me? Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing to feel. Like death by embarrassment. :D The US needs to get some spine no? Why is the mighty USA playing hopscotch with the likes of spineless MMS and sucking up to Pakistan?

I am only suggesting that India should act like the mighty USA and suck up to Pakistan. Why do you want different standards for India and your nation?
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:
shiv wrote:Can we entice the Pakistanis to give us a route to Afghanistan and Iran and then invite the Russians and others to use that route?
RajeshA wrote:And let them blackmail us in all eternity? Naw!
But shouldn't we be like America? America is doing exactly that and being blackmailed, but it is Indians who are spineless?
:) Oh, I'll leave that "New Field of Strategic Studies" to you, CRamS, and other gurus!
shiv wrote:We need to show spine. Instead we hope Israelis, Americans or Russians will do our job.
I think
a) somethings these countries would do, as these just happen to be in their interest, and these would unintentionally be in India's interests
b) somethings these countries would do, as some lobbies would claim these things happen to be in their interest, as India manages to buy up these special-interest lobbies in say USA
c) somethings these countries would do, because India using her influence can reach some agreement with these countries to undertake certain measures in this neighborhood in exchange for some other concessions, perhaps in our involvement in the Pacific
d) somethings these countries just would not do, and India would have to do on our own!

Important is to get things done, and not always how we do it - ourselves or using others!
Shaashtanga
BRFite
Posts: 204
Joined: 07 May 2011 06:43
Location: Canuckistan

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

Please watch the latest episode of Najam Sethi's Aapas ki Baat (20th Feb).

http://www.zemtv.com/2012/02/20/lekin-2 ... uary-2012/

Specially in the 3rd part, Najam Shady summarizes how the oh so mighty USofA is dying to apologize to the Paki's and resume the NATO supply but Pakis are telling the Amreekis to wait till they have their APC (All Party Conference) and demand Apology for the killing of porki troops by Nato as well as Sen. Rohrabacher Baluchistan resolution as fuelling anti-pak sentiments, so after the apology pakiwhore who survives on US arms & alms will be able to pacify its mango apduls and dafa-howl-pakistan will be put back in the box.
Proxytute is going to ask Amreeka khan Bahadur to apologize in strongest terms and Amirkhan will comply.
Najam Shady also discusses that Puki media is un-necessarily giving too much attention to sen Rohrabacher Baluchistan resolution and it is nothing more then a political stunt and even Obama administration that belongs to Democratic Party had refused to send its representative before Dana Rohrabacher's subcommittee, saying that it considers Baluchistan as part of Pakistan.
Only god knows what great game US is playing where it is supposed to bow down to the same beggar that it feeds.
ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ArmenT »

Resurgence of Pakistan's religious right
As Pakistan's civilian leadership falters under the weight of challenges from the army and the judiciary, a resurgent hard-line movement is making a noisy comeback.

Difa-e-Pakistan or Defence of Pakistan is an alliance of extremist right-wing groups - some of which are banned - formed after a Nato air strike killed 24 Pakistani soldiers late last year.
...
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

shiv wrote:
CRamS wrote:Jihadi Lodhi warning India that TSP will resume pigLeT operations if we don't deliver Kashmir. .

I dont Indians will mind fighting the war till last Sunni Kashmiri Jihadi and afterward.
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by anmol »

Eleven Asian men 'plied girls of 13 with drink and drugs to use them for sex'

A group of 11 men plied girls as young as 13 with alcohol and drugs so they could use them for sex, a court has heard.

The five victims, who were aged between 13 and 15 when the alleged abuse began, were passed around by the men "who acted together to sexually exploit the girls", a trial at Liverpool crown court was told.

All the girls were vulnerable as they were from broken homes and one was in the care of a local authority. Rachel Smith, opening the case for the prosecution, warned the jurors: "Some of you may find what you are about to hear distressing. The events and circumstances described by the girls are at best saddening and at worst shocking in places. No child should be exploited as these girls say they were."

The court heard that some of the girls were raped and physically assaulted, with some forced to have sex with "several men in a day, several times a week", in and around Rochdale, Greater Manchester, in 2008 and 2009. Some of the defendants allegedly paid the girls and took payments from other men to whom they supplied the girls for sex.

Kabeer Hassan, 24, Abdul Aziz, 41, Abdul Rauf, 43, Mohammed Sajid, 35, Adil Khan, 42, Abdul Qayyum, 43, Mohammed Amin, 44, Qamar Shahzad, 29, Liaquat Shah, 41, and Hamid Safi, 22, are on trial at Liverpool crown court charged with conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children under the age of 16. They have all pleaded not guilty along with a 59-year-old man who cannot be named for legal reasons, who also denies two rapes, aiding and abetting a rape, one sexual assault and an allegation of trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation.

Hassan, from Oldham, and Shahzad, from Rochdale, also deny rape. Aziz, of Rochdale, denies two counts of rape and one allegation of trafficking for sexual exploitation. Khan and Rauf, of Rochdale, have also pleaded not guilty to trafficking for sexual exploitation. Sajid, also of Rochdale, denies trafficking, two counts of rape and one allegation of sexual activity with a child. Amin, from Rochdale, denies sexual assault. Shah and Safi, both of Rochdale, each denied two counts of rape and Safi has also pleaded not guilty to trafficking.

One 13-year-old victim became pregnant by Adil Khan and had an abortion, the jury was told. She said Khan attacked her when she refused to have sex with "two of four men" who were waiting at a house in Rochdale. He later denied knowing her, despite DNA proof he was the father of the baby, the court heard.

One girl said she was raped by Abdul Aziz in his taxi in December 2009 and afterwards he told her she no longer needed to pay the fare. She was also raped by Liaquat Shah while Safi watched, the jury was told. She claimed two men raped her while she was so drunk "she was vomiting over the side of the bed" after drinking spirits and beer.

She told police: "They were just having it in turns sort of thing … there was nothing I could do, I was throwing up, I just kept throwing up … And I felt like I couldn't move." When the men left, she said, she cried herself to sleep.

Another alleged victim, who was 14, said she would get "proper hammered" and, the court heard, "lost count of the number of times she had had sex with men when she did not want to do so".

The prosecutor said: "She was unable to describe all of the men but said she would regularly find herself drunk to near-unconsciousness, waking up with men having sex with her."

The court was told that in about August 2008 Abdul Aziz "took over" from the 59-year-old and started taking girls to various locations – including a flat in Rochdale where Sajid and Shahzad lived – where a "group of men" would always be waiting to have sex with them.

"Abdul Aziz was being paid by the various men to whom he delivered the girls for the purposes of sex," Smith said. One girl estimated that she was "having sex with several men in a day, several times a week", she said.

The court heard that on one occasion the 59-year-old man met two girls at a takeaway where they were given food and vodka.

He allegedly told a 15-year-old that he wanted sex, saying: "It's part of the deal because I bought you vodka, you have to give me something." When the girl refused, he allegedly raped her. The court was told that when the girl started crying, he said: "Don't cry, I love you."

On another occasion, the jury heard, he took one of the girls to Oldham where she was raped by another man, who told her: "Don't tell anyone. I'll give you money. I'll give you anything you want."

One girl, who was 15 when she met the defendants, told police she had been flattered by the attention. She said she thought it meant she was attractive and they thought she was pretty. However, she quickly began to drink heavily, became depressed and incapable of getting herself out of the situation, the court heard.

"At first I was scared," she told police. "Then after that it … just didn't bother me any more … At first I felt dead bad and horrible but then I didn't feel anything any more." The girl was persistently coerced or forced into submission by the men, Smith said.

"When she was told that she had to have sex with the particular defendant or other men, she would submit to them, although she describes herself as lying impassively with her eyes shut or looking at the wall. She was given alcohol, which she drank heavily, not least because it numbed her thoughts to what was happening to her."

It was "common knowledge", Smith said, among the defendants that the girl was 15 and that Aziz would give her lifts to school while Rauf asked the other older girl if she "knew anyone younger". Smith told the jury that one of the older girls, who was 16 at the time, recruited younger girls for the men as well as having sex with them for money.

The 16-year-old introduced a 14-year-old girl "to a number of different men who wanted to have sex with her, with or without her consent". The younger girl was raped at a takeaway and taken by the man to other places where she was provided to other men for sex.

One girl, who was 13 when the alleged abuse began, told police that the men she met were "friends" who looked after her and "her number would be passed around amongst the Pakistani men in her area".

She told police: "When you've got Asian friends, [your] number gets passed and they pass it to their friends. And they pass it to their friends, end up with a massive circle … everyone's got it."

"There were also occasions on which one or more of the girls were so incapacitated by alcohol and/or drugs that they were incapable of having any control over whether or with whom they had sexual intercourse," Smith said.

The court heard the men knew each other and that two of them worked in the takeaways Tasty Bites and the Balti House, both in Heywood. Four of the other men worked as cab drivers at local taxi firms, one was a student and four were jobless.

The men were known to the girls by nicknames such as "Master" and "Tiger", the court was told. The girls would often spend their days "unsupervised by responsible adults", were not in school regularly and drank and smoked and hung around with little to do.

Smith said they were the "sort of children who were easy to identify, target and exploit for the sexual gratification of these men".

The trial continues.
r_subramanian
BRFite
Posts: 255
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 11:18
Location: Australia

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by r_subramanian »

I do not like this news report
Pak Navy receives US surveillance aircraft
The Pakistani navy took delivery Tuesday of two state-of-the-art, US-made surveillance aircraft nine months after militants destroyed two similar planes, officials said.
Pakistan said the P3C aircraft, modified with the latest avionics, are designed to improve surveillance in the North Arabian sea, one of the world’s most important shipping routes deeply troubled by Somali piracy.
“The two aircraft have been delivered to the Pakistan navy. These aircraft have been provided under the foreign military funding programme,” a spokesman for the US embassy in Islamabad, told AFP.
...
link
Anurag
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Anurag »

Ba$tard$!
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

Qaidi Mush

BBMurder: Musharraf to be brought back via Interpol, says Malik
KARACHI: Interior Minister Rehman Malik announced in the Sindh Assembly that there would be a red notice issued through Interpol for the arrest of former President Pervez Musharraf and he would be brought back to Pakistan.Malik was briefing the provincial assembly about the murder investigation of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto.During the briefing Malik informed the MPA’s that former president Pervez Musharraf denied Benazir Bhutto the promised security.
Before Benazir's arrival, Musharraf in the presence of Mark Segel told Benazir not to come back and threatened her to face consequences but Benazir said she would decide about her homecoming plan herself.
The interior minister said 27 terrorist groups were involved in the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.
While detailing the investigations, the minister said there was a phone call regarding the incident in our notice and after a gap of 1 1/2 years the SIM was used again on the basis of which the culprit was arrested.With the help of the arrested man, important details were disclosed including the information of the bombers’ stay at a particular seminary and about the execution of plan. From the planner to executioner, everyone was identified during the probe.Malik added that there were multiple attempts on the life of the former prime minister and one of the attacks was planned by Khalid Shekih and his brother.The minister hoped that the case would reach the logical conclusion soon.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

The real test is what will MMS do if Mushy lands in India?
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

O Babbu, Ik Paisa de de
Pakistan, UN launch fresh $440m flood appeal
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and United Nations on Tuesday launched a fresh appeal for $440 million to help hundreds of thousands of people rebuild their lives after consecutive years of devastating floods.The appeal aims to feed people, provide basic services, shelter, health, water and sanitation between now and September in the breadbasket province of Sindh and insurgency-torn Baluchistan, in the southwest.“This is the funding required for 215 projects,” UN Humanitarian Coordinator in Pakistan, Timo Pakkala, told a news conference in Islamabad.“The emergency is not over yet. Waters may have receded but people are still struggling to restore their livelihood,” Pakkala said.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

Waqt ki Barbadi
Speaker Indian Lok Sabha arrives in Pakistan
ISLAMABAD: Speaker Lok Sabha, India, Meira Kumar arrived here Tuesday on a five-day state visit to Pakistan along with a seven-member parliamentary delegation, comprising members of the Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha.
Meira Kumar has come to Pakistan on the invitation of Speaker National Assembly Dr. Fehmida Mirza. The visit is the first-ever official visit by an Indian Speaker after a long period.The deligation was received at the airport by Special Assistant to the Prime Minister, Shahnaz Wazir Ali, Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan,Sharat Sabharwal, Secretary National Assembly, Karamat Hussain Niazi and other senior officials of the National Assembly.The visit is aimed to forge better ties and future cooperation between the two parliaments. It also carries a special significance for both Pakistan and India who currently have women speakers in their Parliament’s lower house.During her visit, Speaker Lok Sabha besides meeting with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Syed Yusuaf Raza Gilani will also meet Chairman Senate Farooq H. Naik and Pakistan-India Friendship Group in the National Assembly of Pakistan.In the last leg of visit, the delegation will proceed to Lahore where it will meet Governor, Chief Minister and Speaker of the Punjab Provincial Assembly.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

Graduate of BRF University

No peace in Balochistan without referendum”
As the sole witness of Baloch ethnicity to speak at the recent Balochistan hearing before the United States Congress, M. Hossein Bor disagrees with comments that he was not relevant to the proceedings.
Not only was he the only witness able to speak as a Baloch, he points out that he also was the only one with deep subject matter expertise in foreign trade and investment in Southwest Asia. From this perspective, he hoped his testimony would have shed light on the unrealised strategic and economic opportunities that an independent Balochistan would provide to Americans, including the ability to contain a rising China and an emerging Iran, prevent an adversarial Pakistan from achieving strategic depth in Afghanistan, and ensure Baloch-American economic prosperity through new energy and mineral resource agreements. However, with little time to prepare for the hearing and only five minutes of allotted time to provide oral testimony, many of these points were not expressed. Bor therefore looks to this post-hearing assessment as a mechanism to share publicly for the first time what he has shared privately with Baloch nationalists and their supporters. As one of the five witnesses called before Congress, it is assured that these remarks will be closely watched by all side to the Baloch debate.

Great Game 2.0
To understand Balochistan, Bor believes that one cannot look at Pakistan’s largest province through the Afghanistan-Pakistan (Af-Pak) box. In retrospect, this is perhaps one of the strongest contributions that he could have made at the hearing.For Bor, Balochistan must be understood in the larger context of South-western Asia: “As everyone knows, there was a great game in this same area in the 19th century and the Afghans and Baloch were the victims. This great game has now been renewed but, instead of the British and Russian Empires, the competition is now between China-India, China-US, Iran-US, Pakistan-India, and Pakistan-US. This competition threatens US strategic and economic interests.”He therefore counters the opinion of other witnesses, who felt that the hearing should have been limited to the Balochistan province: “There are many interrelated issues at play. When one discusses Balochistan, you are discussing a way to contain China. You are also discussing economic relationships between Iran and Pakistan. And, you are talking about energy security for the US and its allies.”With respect to China, Bor says that the strategic and economic importance of Balochistan cannot be underestimated: “If (the Chinese) build their port in Gwadar, they will have a land route from Western China to the Indian Ocean. This is of strategic interest to the United States because Chinese ships would have a direct route to China and no longer have to transit past the Indian and American navies. It therefore is logical that Balochistan should be concerned as part of the larger shift to the Pacific announced by the Obama administration. Furthermore, Central Asia has the largest oil reserves in the world after the Middle East. Balochistan provides an alternative way to get those resources to the international market beside China and Russia.”He makes a similar argument for Iran: “Iran is an empire and they are using Baloch lands to try to become the dominant regional player. The Iranians are using the Strait of Hormuz as a chokepoint for a huge percentage of the world’s oil. They also are building a pipeline to Pakistan which violates UN sanctions. Such growing Iran-Pakistan cooperation is a major concern.” In his mind, an independent Balochistan extending from Karachi to the Strait of Hormuz would not only contain an emerging Iran but also provide a long-term security guarantee against China, Iran, and Pakistan emerging as revisionist maritime powers in the region.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

Orr nahi bus orr nahi, Poaqerstan abb orr nahi.Baloch Hogga Azad Paki ,Wet Hoggi Teri Khaki
Excerpts from the resolution are included that are quite interesting: “Whereas the people of Balochistan have maintained a proud and distinctive national, cultural and religious identity dating back to ancient times.......in 1666, the Baloch Khanate of Kalat was founded which functioned as an independent, sovereign country......in the 19th century, the Baloch people were conquered and divided by the imperialist expansion of Persia (Iran) and the British Empire; whereas, on August 15, 1947, the Khan of Kalat declared independence, only to have Baloch aspirations crushed by an invasion by Pakistan in April 1948.......revolts in 1958, 1973 and 2005 indicate continued popular discontent against rule by Islamabad, and the plunder of its vast natural wealth, while Balochistan remains the poorest province in Pakistan; whereas, a popular insurgency is also underway in Sistan-Balochistan and being met by brutal repression by the dictatorship in Iran which has added religious bigotry to tyranny; and whereas, it is the policy of the United States to oppose aggression and the violation of human rights inherent in the subjugation of national groups as currently being shown in Iran and Pakistan against the aspirations of the Baloch people: Now, therefore, be it ‘resolved’ by the House of Representatives.......that the people of Balochistan, currently divided between Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan, have the right to self-determination and to their own sovereign country and they should be afforded the opportunity to choose their own status among the community of nations, living in peace and harmony, without external coercion.”
The Khan of Kalat (of 1948) narrated in his autobiography that he joined Pakistan as an article of faith, since he experienced a vision in which the Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) directed him to join it. Thereafter, he sought an appointment with Quaid-i-Azam, who met him despite severe illness. In that meeting, the Khan requested him to merge his Khanate with Pakistan
RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2249
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by RCase »

ramana wrote:The real test is what will MMS do if Mushy lands in India?
MMS should go the extra mile and show them how the civilized thing to do would be to hand over wanted people and expect the Pakis would reciprocate with handing over similar wanted people to India. :twisted:
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by member_22539 »

shiv wrote:There are many western (English) expressions and concepts that mean zilch when it comes to either Pakistan or large areas of turd world nations

Pakistan is no more hungry than India and because of the Sindhu river Pakistan will never be any more hungry than India. oh yes there will be starving people but how you refer to starving and poor people depends on your perspective. In America the "poor" (as per a video posted in this forum) have no homes. That makes them poor. But they have computers and flatscreen TV and miss one meal once in a while.

Bombing a country back to the stone age is a joke. Vast areas of Pakistan still live in stone age conditions.

Afghanistan under the Taliban was not chaos. I have not heard such rubbish in my life. It was Muslims under sharia. The US wanted that. Pakistan wanted that. India could do nothing, but all that India wanted was no terrorism. Afghanistan under the Taliban "raised eyebrows" and caused people to shake their heads in dismay when the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed and when IC 814 was hijacked. But that's all.

Only 9-11 made Afghanistan bad. Now after 11 years the US does not have victory in Afghanistan. The same country that was praised right on here as "America took two countries in exchange for two buildings. Why can't spineless India do a fraction of that?"

Spineless India may be right in not have having a policy of feeding and arming people who may not be your friends, or calling people friends just to make them do a job for you, not because you really feel kinship with them. But we have to decide for ourselves whom we admire.

I suggest we divert these rivers, after all they originate in Kashmir (hence its real importance). We the so called "civilized" should stop being so sensitive to the well-being of human cockroaches, just treat them as how you would real cockroaches.
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by member_22539 »

anmol wrote:
Eleven Asian men 'plied girls of 13 with drink and drugs to use them for sex'

A group of 11 men plied girls as young as 13 with alcohol and drugs so they could use them for sex, a court has heard.............

.

The trial continues.

Alternate title, just as relevant: "Eleven human men 'plied girls of 13 with drink and drugs to use them for sex.'
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8271
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Dilbu »

Barhamdagh Bugti supports US bill on Balochistan
Barhamdagh Bugti, separatist leader and founder of Baloch Republican Party (BRP), has said he supports US Congress bill, espousing self-determination for Balochistan. Talking to media via telephone on Wednesday, the Baloch leader said with the tabling of US resolution on Balochistan, the matter had now become integrity of Pakistan. Talking about the proposed All Parties Conference on Balochiostan, he said the elements responsible for atrocities on Baloch people were now convening the APCs. He said that situation in Balochistan was not hidden from any one and nobody paid heed towards the province’s aggravating situation over last two years.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Aditya_V »

Quran burning: US apology fails to ease anger in Afghanistan

This can't be tolerated, Pak-is-tan Land of the Spirutually Pure muslim, should not tolerate. All the brave Pakis must take revenge for this.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Singha »

looks like the US strongly wants to setup shop on Iran's eastern border and is pressuring the Paki Govt on it.
Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Lalmohan »

Arun Menon wrote: Alternate title, just as relevant: "Eleven human men 'plied girls of 13 with drink and drugs to use them for sex.'
atleast one UK tv channel was reporting this as "pakistani men abusing underage girls" quite specifically
anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9203
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by anupmisra »

Poverty a stark spectre for 79m Pakistanis: Report
Express Tribune is the source. TIFWIW.
...an independent expert has claimed that around 43 per cent of the population is living below the poverty line in Pakistan.
79.1 million persons in the country will be destitute
The research was undertaken by Akmal Hussain; a professor at Beaconhouse National University and a well known expert on the topic of poverty
40.7 per cent of Pakistan’s population would be classified as being ‘poor’ last year, compared to 38.5 per cent in 2009-10
So, poverty rate trends are 38.5% in 2009-10, 40.7% in 2010-11, and 43% in 2011-12. And this is coupled with an increasing population growth rate of at least 2%. So where have the previous estimates gone?
The most recent official figures are from 2005-06, when poverty was estimated at 22.9 per cent. The Pakistan Peoples Party led government did not accept the 2007-08 HIES that projected a reduction in poverty to 17.2 per cent, and there have been no official numbers available since then.
Musharraf’s government had claimed that it reduced the percentage of population below the poverty line from 34 percent in the year 2000-01, to 23 percent in the year 2004-05; that is, a reduction of 11 percentage points. This was meant to show that almost a third of Pakistan’s poverty stricken populace had been brought up within a period of four years. The author argues that if this was true, it would be one of the most remarkable economic achievements in the history of developing countries; including the Soviet Union under Stalin, and China under Mao. :rotfl:
Jai Ho!
UBanerjee
BRFite
Posts: 537
Joined: 20 Mar 2011 01:41
Location: Washington DC

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by UBanerjee »

What can they do? Desert faiths were not designed for modern industrial societies. See how they've had to mangle Christianity into the gospel of wealth.
archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6823
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by archan »

Lets not make statements that take the credit away from pakis. Pakis deserve full credit of the cesspool they have created for them. I see a lot of people looking for a chance to pass a comment on Islam. The Arab countries have done well financially. Granted it is oil, but it is an industry nonetheless.
It is pakis that have messed up pakistan. Give them full credit.
UBanerjee
BRFite
Posts: 537
Joined: 20 Mar 2011 01:41
Location: Washington DC

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by UBanerjee »

archan wrote:Lets not make statements that take the credit away from pakis. Pakis deserve full credit of the cesspool they have created for them. I see a lot of people looking for a chance to pass a comment on Islam. The Arab countries have done well financially. Granted it is oil, but it is an industry nonetheless.
It is pakis that have messed up pakistan. Give them full credit.
Oil is not a productive industry. Just as you say there is no need to give credit where credit is not due. Westerners came and dug up the oil with machines. Now the Indians and the Chinese do it. The Arabs haven't built anything but palaces and yachts and Wahabbi networks from the good fortune of sitting on oil that other people are digging up and using.

Tomorrow if more geysers of oil were discovered in India and USA and China the Arab countries would all become irrelevant. The reverse is not possible because the wealth of these other nations is in the people and the institutions.

Sorry if this is too OT.
anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9203
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by anupmisra »

BENIS material.
Altaf Hussein al Londoni singing to the faithful recently. Leke pehla pehla pyaar (Eye Wuvv Joo)
Watch the motormama at 0:40 getting goosebumps.
tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by tejas »

To disassociate Islam and poverty/backwardness is to disassociate smoke from fire. What is the only real difference between India and "Pakistan" other then the goat herder's religion?
Last edited by tejas on 22 Feb 2012 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4635
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by hnair »

anupmisra wrote: So, poverty rate trends are 38.5% in 2009-10, 40.7% in 2010-11, and 43% in 2011-12. And this is coupled with an increasing population growth rate of at least 2%. So where have the previous estimates gone?
RAPE after RAPE who visit India (or sit in bomb craters to write articles), claim "more visible poverty in India than pakiland". So 43% of people in Pakistan must be using a TFTA "those who live on 10$/day" benchmark (10 injun = 1 paki taknikk) instead of our gora-sartiphied "1$ a day" :(( benchmark
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by harbans »

What is the only real difference between India and "Pakistan" other than than the goat herder's religion?
I don't understand what you got against Goat Herders. Certainly in Islamic countries the lack of self introspection is massive. A threat of burning a Koran in a far away land and you have hordes on the streets demanding respect for religion. Smash thousands of years old Bamiyan and not a beep from the entire Islamic world. When Barbaria throws Gita's and other religious books in the dustbin if found in the baggage it's no problem..i always believe if you respect others you get it back. Same applies to religion. But the DNA of excluvism also includes chapters on compulsive hatred for the unbeliever. Therein lies the lack of capability to reform in the larger Islamic sphere.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Singha »

the parts of the muslim world that have some old civilization moorings of education , open trade and not really 'desert pure' are the ones that are far ahead in human terms vs the purest of the pure like the sauds and pakis - viz iran, egypt, palestine, libya, syria, jordan, turkey even if they have periodically been ruled by tyrants.

if we look at eminent people of arab stock in other parts of the world - mostly we will find people from these places...

there is no genetic shortcoming, its cultural - once the heavy hand is removed people do well.
Post Reply