Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

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pankajs
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

Just read the headline but posting in full.

US Congressional hearing may spell trouble for Pakistan - Dawn
While some officials from the government and non-governmental organisations have only expressed concern over the situation, other individuals, including former army soldiers, State department officials and members of the US Congress, have now begun to publicly assert support for an independent Balochistan
The United States (US) Committee on Foreign Affairs is set to convene a congressional hearing on Wednesday (February '8'), for an exclusive discussion on Balochistan.

The extraordinary event has generated great interest among followers of Pakistan-US relations, as the allies’ mutual relationship seems to be deteriorating. The powerful House of Representatives committee oversees America’s foreign assistance programs and experts believe it can recommend halting US assistance to Pakistan over human rights violation in Balochistan.

Calls for ‘independence’
While Islamabad has strictly treated Balochistan as an internal matter, the debate on such a divisive topic by the powerful committee has highlighted the level of American interest in Balochistan and its support, if any, for the nationalist movement. On its part, Pakistan has kept Washington at arm’s length on the Balochistan issue, by refusing to grant it permission to open a consulate in Quetta.

A Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, who recently co-authored an article with Congressman Louie Gohmert expressing support for an independent Balochistan, will chair the hearing.

“Perhaps we should even consider support for a Balochistan carved out of Pakistan to diminish radical power there (in Pakistan),” Rohrabacher wrote in his piece.

According to Asia-Pacific Reporting Blog, “it is expected that the hearing will tackle issues related to whether or not the US Congress should tie human rights issues in Balochistan to Pakistani aid.”

Witness box
Another area of interest is of the controversial witnesses who will testify before the committee. The three-member panel comprises of defence analyst Ralph Peters, Georgetown assistant professor, C. Christine Fair and Ali Dayan Hasan, Pakistan Director of the Human Rights Watch.

Ironically, the panel on Balochistan does not include a Baloch representative, an issue which has disappointed the Baloch diaspora in the United States, who fear the misinterpretation of their stance by people they view as unfamiliar with the Baloch conflict.

One of the witnesses, Ralph Peters, attracted scathing criticism by right-wing Pakistani strategists in June 2006, when his article Blood Borders was published in the Armed Forces Journal with a map of Free Balochistan. Peters, 59, a former US army officer, is expected to support in his testimony the idea of an independent Balochistan comprising of the Balochistan provinces in Pakistan and Iran and parts of Afghanistan.

On the other hand, Dr Christine Fair is known as a passionate supporter of Pakistan with an anti-India stance. The Pakistani media quoted Dr Fair in March 2009, for allegedly linking India with the Baloch insurgency. She was reportedly questioned the role of the Indian consulates in Afghanistan and Iran.

“Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan,” she told a roundtable organised by the Foreign Affairs magazine, “I can assure you they (Indians) are not issuing visas as their main activity.” Later on, however, she told Outlook, an Indian newsmagazine, in an interview that the Pakistanis had blown her comments out of proportion.

On Twitter, a week ahead of the hearing, Dr Fair called Ralph Peters, the fellow witness, a “nut” and asked “WHAT does he know?” On Saturday, she also irked the Balochs by questioning their majority status in Balochistan while in another Tweet she warned the separatists not to “expect me to support an independent Balochistan”.

Public debate
Dr. Akbar S. Ahmed, Pakistan’s former high commissioner to the United Kingdom, told Dawn.com that the congressional hearing was a “significant step” in highlighting Balochistan’s problems. “The information provided in the event,” he said, “will not only be used by members of the US Congress but will also be picked up by the world media.”

“The shocking stories of torture and murder in Balochistan will become part of the public debate. It is in the interest of Pakistan to quickly and effectively resolve the situation in Balochistan bringing back the Baluch with honour, respect and dignity,” said Dr Ahmed, who is currently the Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at the American University in Washington DC.

Dr Ahmed, who served in 1980s as the Commissioner of three districts in Balochistan, says the hearing can potentially create a great deal of negative publicity for Pakistan.

Close watchers
In the United States, the conflict in Balochistan has been gaining remarkable attention of late. While some officials from the government and non-governmental organisations have only expressed concern over the situation, other individuals, including former army soldiers, State department officials and members of the US Congress, have now begun to publicly assert support for an independent Balochistan.

For instance, on January 15, Victoria Nuland, the State Department spokeswoman, expressed America’s “deep concern” over the ongoing violence in Balochistan, especially targeted killings, disappearances and human rights violations.

“This (Balochistan) is a complex issue. We strongly believe that the best way forward is for all the parties to resolve their differences through peaceful dialogue,” she said.

Last year on November 16, the State Department deputy spokesman, Mark Toner, had also observed during a press briefing, “You know, more broadly, we do have concerns about the situation in Balochistan. We’ve addressed those concerns with the government of Pakistan.”

Nationalist view
Baloch nationalists are cautiously monitoring Wednesday’s hearing.

“To be honest, we are not very optimistic about this meeting,” Sardar Akhtar Mengal, a former chief minister of Balochistan, told Dawn.com, “but both support and attention from the US are significant because the presence of the US cannot be overlooked in South East Asia. It is essential that the US gives attention to Balochistan, as the aid that is given to Pakistan in the name of war against terror is being spent to commit atrocities in Balochistan.”

A political expert in Washington DC, who requested anonymity, said during the election year, the Republicans are likely to bring up the Balochistan issue to castigate Democratic President Barrack Obama for deliberately keeping quiet against Pakistan, an ally in the war on terror, for allegedly misusing American assistance to fight the secular Balochs instead of quashing the Taliban.

After the killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, many American policymakers have become disillusioned with Pakistan and now some of them propose an independent Balochistan to fight religious extremism. Last month, Louie Gohmert, another Republican Congressman from Texas, suggested that the US should, “talk about creating a Balochistan in the southern part of Pakistan…they love us. They’ll stop the IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and all the weaponry coming into Afghanistan, and we got a shot to win over there.”

Sardar Mengal, who leads the largest Balochistan National Party (BNP), says the hearing does not mean that the Washington is going to support the Baloch cause in the future.

“What the US can do for us is to care for the Baloch as human beings. Since Washington is apparently a committed supporter of human rights, it is obligatory that the US should stop the genocide of the Baloch nation by the authorities as it has done in other parts of the world, supporting their right of self-determination.”

M. Chris Mason, a Senior Fellow at the Center for Advanced Defense Studies, who recently retired from the US Foreign Service, has emerged as another ardent proponent of free Balochistan in the United States.

In an article, Mason, who lecturers at the prestigious National Defense University, argued an independent Balochistan would solve many of the [Af-Pak] region’s most intractable problems overnight and would create “a territorial buffer between rogue states Iran and Pakistan.”

“The answer to the current Pakistani train-wreck is… recognising Balochistan’s legitimate claim to independence… to help the Baluchis go the way of the Bangladeshis in achieving their dream of freedom from tyranny, corruption and murder at the hands of the diseased state,” he wrote.

Routine matter
Hassan Abbas, a scholar based in Washington DC who until recently was Quaid-i-Azam Chair Professor at Columbia University in New York, seriously doubts if the US will officially support Baloch nationalists at this time as this will complicate US-Pakistan relations.

“I think the hearing is a routine matter as all security related issues in Pakistan are being analysed in the policy world with keen interest as well as concern. The hearing will discuss human rights issue as well as politics,” says Abbas, who is also a Senior Advisor at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, “but the hearing itself will not create any serious diplomatic row. The US Congress must listen and understand that there is a variety of perspectives on the subject.”

Dr Ahmed, meanwhile, attributes the deepening crisis in Balochistan to Islamabad’s failure to understand that time is running out for it.

“The leaders of Pakistan are so focussed on the power struggles in Islamabad that they seem to have little will or imagination to deal with the urgent issues that concern the country’s largest province of Balochistan.”

How will Islamabad respond to the hearing?
“Pakistan’s establishment is quite sensitive about the Balochistan crisis and they will follow the hearings closely and sceptically,” says Hassan Abbas, whose book Pakistan’s Drift into Extremism was published in 2005.

According to Abbas, hawkish elements in Pakistani media are likely to create a lot of hue and cry over the hearing. Yet he cautions, “They will serve Pakistan better by focussing on projecting the concerns of the ordinary Baloch people, who are disenfranchised, distressed and increasingly getting disenchanted.”

Sardar Mengal of BNP, who was detained in Karachi for several months during the Pervez Musharraf regime, predicts there would be a definite reaction from the government.

“They can only display their superiority to the ones who are weaker, and in this case, the Baloch are the weaker ones,” he says and warns, “But if there is a reaction from Pakistan toward us, this time it will be once and for all. Either the Baloch will swim across or sink as a nation.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

^^^ Its BS shouting wolf before time.

Yawn for the course!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by A_Gupta »

C. Christine Fair's primer on Baluchistan, for a Congressional Committee.
http://home.comcast.net/~christine_fair ... histan.pdf
Given the ethnic diversity of the province, its complicated history, and the existing geographic constraints, an independent Balochistan is untenable and proposals on this point will not be entertained by this author.
A second area of interest for the United States is simple conformity with its own laws. The Leahy Amendment precludes the United States from providing assistance to a foreign security force if there is credible evidence that the unit has committed gross violations of human rights. To remain in compliance with the law, American officials must review the human rights record of those units of the Pakistani security forces that may become recipients of U.S. assistance. (After years of interviewing U.S. personnel it has become clear to the author that the United States has not taken this responsibility terribly seriously; but there has been increasing attention to it in recent years.)

Despite well-documented evidence of Pakistan military and paramilitary excesses in Swat, the Tribal Areas, Balochistan and elsewhere, the United States has not responded with alacrity. The lone exception to this rule came in October 2010, when the United States withdrew aid to some Pakistani security forces because of the evidence of mass-killings in Swat. The withholding of a small amount of aid was announced at the same time as a $2 billion aid package (Schmitt and Sanger, 2010).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

@harbans

It seems to be a game between the two. The border incident was followed by the closure of the NATO supply route and suddenly we start hearing a lot about Balochistan. It will probably last till the supply route is not re-opened. After that the US will try not to displease the pakis.

While the momentary spotlight will pass one hopes it will leave some impression in the public mind.
Last edited by pankajs on 08 Feb 2012 00:40, edited 2 times in total.
deepan gill
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by deepan gill »

Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.
Hi Shiv,

I still travel on Indian passport :) Getting back to our discussion, is there really a need for Udham Singh, has there really been a Jalianwala Bagh conducted by US? Sure US does supply weapons and cash to Pakistan, sure Pakistan double-crosses US, and sure Pakistan has used US made weapons against India. US can easily say, India was anti –US during the Cold War, it was part of Soviet Bloc. No matter how much we wish to disagree, India’s founding fathers/ mothers were Socialist and hidden Communists. They were influenced by the Brits to have a negative impression of the US, source “Hidden Story of Partition”.

I still fail to understand what US has done? US has its own interests and is working towards it. India has its own interests and wants others to work for them. If indeed Afghanistan is crucial to Indian interests, then India should show its presence. If India really believes that Pakistan is a terrorist state, then declare Pakistan a terrorist state and then tell US do to the same or India will stop US investments in India. Are we capable of doing this?

How can an Indian American stand up and for Indian interests when an Indian openly writing articles showing how corrupt Sonia Gandhi is, is banned by the Indian Govt from travelling to India, has urged US authorities to label him as a terrorist, and even lost a defamation law-suit against him in US courts. And this man is 82 years old.

India Americans are doing their part in influencing decision makers. We have a long way to go, and it will be done.

Frankly speaking, US has everything that an Indian aspires for India itself. Common man on the streets is not worried about how many aircraft carriers we have or what did Chinese Ambassador said to an Indian journalist. Common Indian is concerned about living his life, being protected and to prosper. All these things are missing for majority of Indians and we internet savvy educated class have failed.

US is protecting its own, and on occasions has sacrificed its sons and daughters for protecting others. Ram and Lakshman stood guard when Rishis wanted to perform their ceremony. US is today what India used to be.

Just like Israel is home to an American American Jew, India is home to Hindu American. We can change passports but we can’t change our identity. No one is going to do ethnic cleansing and force me out of my state in US. Unfortunately it was done to Hindu Kashmiris. Shouldn’t have US intervened just like it did in Kosovo?

I have enjoyed reading your posts over the years and I agree with you most of the time, but on this statement, I am sorry I disagree. And no I do not find your post as inciting violence nor frustration.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by harbans »

basically the ideology is not suitable for fertile lands,
That is wrong. The ideology is not suited for any human being, irrespective of the geography. It may be easier to inflict that ideology in a particular geography in contrast to another..that's about it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

sanjaykumar wrote:Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.


I hope this is not an incitement to violence. It is however, irresponsible and reportable.
Take it easy, it is called pointed rhetoric. No need to be pompous.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

Folks we can discuss and critique Rudradev's analysis in other threads. Lets stick to TSP here.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

Poaqritganimals

The steady decline of Pakistan
For 65 years Pakistanis have been conducting one of modern history’s great experiments: Can a nation conceived as Islamic be free and democratic-- the vision of Pakistan’s founding father, Muhammad Ali Jinnah? Or will Pakistan’s identity be defined by “forces that want us to live in fear—fear of external and internal enemies."The words quoted above were spoken by Husain Haqqani to the Wall Street Journal’s Mira Sethi. Until November, Haqqani was Pakistan's ambassador to Washington where he was a popular figure, a proud Pakistani patriot and a liberal-democratic Muslim intellectual tirelessly making the case that Pakistan should be seen as an important ally deserving of respect, moral support and material assistance.When I was last in Pakistan, two years ago, on a visit sponsored by the State Department, the U.S. Congress had just approved – thanks in large measure to Haqqani’s efforts – a $7.5 billion aid package. To my shock, this elicited little gratitude and much grumbling. Why? Because American envoys were to ensure that American taxpayer dollars would be spent to alleviate poverty and fight terrorists -- not for other purposes. People were angry with Haqqani for having accepted such “conditionality.”I recall the U.S. ambassador getting grilled on a Pakistani television program and sounding apologetic. I told anyone who asked – and some who didn’t --- that aid is not an entitlement; that we Americans have every right to specify how our money should be spent; that Haqqani was correct not to complain about such commonsensical restrictions; and that if other Pakistanis disagree they can tear up our checks. No hard feelings....During my last visit, however, Pakistan was different. Over the course of a single week, four terrorist attacks were carried out -- one of them targeting the Pakistani equivalent of the Pentagon where Taliban insurgents, armed with automatic weapons, grenades, and rocket launchers, fought for 22 hours. I expected such violence to outrage Pakistanis – to make them implacable foes of terrorism and the ideologies that drive it. But that was not necessarily the case.
A too-common view: The Taliban that attacks Pakistanis should be condemned but the Taliban that attacks Americans may be condoned. America, after all, had wronged Afghanistan by abandoning it after the Soviet defeat, and then had wronged it a second time by returning. The self-contradiction in these indictments generally went unrecognized.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by RamaY »

Mehdi,

Lets go to OT thread where I can dream louder ;)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Shaashtanga »

del
Last edited by Rahul M on 08 Feb 2012 08:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by SBajwa »

Is filming people like this allowed in the londonistan?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Nandu »

SBajwa, most places don't have prohibition on filming or photographing people in public places, unless done for indecent purposes. Nothing specific to UK.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by sanjaykumar »

Okay, an explanation. One needs to be very cautious in posting anything that can be construed as being remotely threatening. Recently a Briton was deported from a Nevada airport for posting on Twitter that he was going there to destroy the place. Of course he meant it as in getting drunk/having a good time.

Injudicious remarks like the one referenced by my 'pompous' remonstrance can only serve to activate every DIA bot known to security agencies. Even if it was not serious why put others on this board under any stain. You can bet a bunch of swarthies discussing nuclear bombs, colonialism, Islamic aggression, Christianity are already hurtling towards various trip wires.

Yes free speech and all that but let us not be ingenuous.


PS I prefer to be called arrogant, not pompous :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Prem »

SC admits for hearing petition against Kayani, Pasha removal

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20998
ASSLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Tuesday admitted for hearing a petition filed in anticipation of a perceived move to sack Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani and ISI Director General Lt-Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha against the backdrop of the ‘memogate’ fiasco, DawnNews reported.A three-judge bench of the apex court, headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, admitted the petition filed by Advocate F.K. Butt for hearing after dismissing the objections raised by the Registrar’s office regarding its maintainability.During today’s hearing, Attorney General Maulvi Anwarul Haq said that the petition was based on newspaper clippings and conspiracy theories.The petition was filed after the sudden removal of defence secretary Lt-Gen (retd) Naeem Khalid Lodhi on Jan 11 on allegations of gross misconduct and illegal action and for creating misunderstanding between state institutions.Moreover, the petitioner had requested the court to issue a restraining order and stop the government from taking any step to remove or retire the two officers till the pendency of the case. The army chief will retire on Nov 29, 2013, while the ISI chief will complete his extended term on March 19 this year
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by arun »

Green on Green Sub Sectarian violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as the more pure endeavour to cleanse that country of the less pure..

On a day of religious significance for Mohammaddens members of Sunni sect and Barelvi sub-sect of that religion take on their co-religionists of the Sunni sect but Deobandi sub-sect in Mansehra.

What is it in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan that so frequently drives adherents of what is claimed to be a religion of peace to commit acts of violence targeting co-religionists motivated by differences in religious practise on days that are religiously significant to the Mohammadden faith?

Eid Miladun Nabi: Man killed, 14 injured in sectarian clash in Mansehra
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

sanjaykumar wrote:Okay, an explanation. One needs to be very cautious in posting anything that can be construed as being remotely threatening. Recently a Briton was deported from a Nevada airport for posting on Twitter that he was going there to destroy the place. Of course he meant it as in getting drunk/having a good time.

Injudicious remarks like the one referenced by my 'pompous' remonstrance can only serve to activate every DIA bot known to security agencies. Even if it was not serious why put others on this board under any stain.

This is an interesting viewpoint. You can threaten Assad and Ahmedinejad with death but you won't get deported from Nevada for that. I have noticed time and again that it is possible for people to be "bold" and demand free speech about Indian leaders, but that demand does not extend as far as being critical of American leaders. The only thing you did over and above that was to express the sentiment in words.

What this means is as follows:
1. The US has the widest intelligence network monitoring the speech opinions of a wide range of otherwise innocent people.
2. As long as those people threaten anyone that the US considers an enemy the US is not bothered. Naturally.(I am told) this is in US interests and the US acts in its interests
3. If anyone says anything against a US entity, he can be stopped, questioned, arrested, deported as an enemy of the USA
4. This behavior is exactly what the former Soviet Union was accused of promoting
5. But the US is advertised by its apologists as a free society.

It is a free society where people are scared of being critical of US leaders to the extent that people are cautious about how they will get personally affected by being a member of a forum where someone else says something that can be remotely interpreted as being slightly injurious to the health of US netas.

What this means is that on an Indian interests forum such as this, if a US leader or the USA has done something that is in US interests and not in Indian interests, an Indian cannot say it aloud because it puts US citizens and travellers at risk of having their balls squeezed by the FBI.

This is one way US interests are enforced and pushed over that of Indian interests. In the USA Americans are now afraid to pipe up. And it is extending to the internet. That is how you can boldly call Manmohan Singh a Jackass and Sonia an agent of the Pope on BRF. it certainly won't get anyone deported from Nevada or "put a stain" on anyone who matters. Go ahead. Be my guest. Go slap an Indian minister.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Pakistani origin individuals in the UK plead guilty to charges of indulging in that ccountries national past time of Islamic Terrorism:
Terrorists exposed in covert operation

Thursday, February 02, 2012 ………………….

Initially the Stoke-on-Trent four, Usman Khan, Mohammed Shahjahan, Nazam Hussain and Mohibur Rahman, acted independently as a self-contained radical Muslim cell, preaching an extreme version of Islam on the streets of the Potteries. ……………………….

But the Stoke-on-Trent four, who were all British-born but of Pakistani origin, were more interested in carrying out attacks closer to home, and so their own discussions would focus on planting bombs in pubs and clubs in the Potteries.

Importantly, these would not be suicide attacks; they talked about leaving timed pipe bombs in pub toilets, leaving them alive to fight another day.

While they never got to the stage of building the bombs or selecting targets, they were already considering what would come after this initial campaign.

These long-term plans involved sending some of their number to terror training camps in Kashmir in Pakistan, where they could receive training in how to use firearms, in preparation for further acts of terrorism. It is understood they intended to raise money for this training by using fake passports to secure bank loans…………………

Clicky
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by sanjaykumar »

^^
If you did not already know that, you have been watching too much 'Leave it to Beaver'.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

sanjaykumar wrote:^^
If you did not already know that, you have been watching too much 'Leave it to Beaver'.
What is "Leave it to Beaver"? Or should I ask my Unkal Googal?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Dipanker »

^^
And to top all that, Ombaba recently passed National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which denies habeas corpus to anybody including American citizens. Under the provision of this law anybody can be indefinitely held without any trial or charges filed. Truly amazing, a country which tirelessly espouses the virtues of human rights, will have such draconian laws on book.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by sanjaykumar »

That is totally insane. What is the ACLU doing about it? How is America's liberal minority silent?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

Yeah the GOAT has made what cartoon character Opus used to say" We found the enemy and its us!"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Hari Seldon »

There was a time when moi was oh-so-taken in by unkil only. Admired the country, people, culture, values etc so much only. Prompted further y tomes like Steyn's 'America alone'. Now no longer. Sure, I still its a great country and all, just much less than before only. Anyway OT, stopping here.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by A_Gupta »

Shouldn’t have US intervened just like it did in Kosovo?
No. That was a simple answer to a stupid question.

It seems the modern BRFer has no conception of the past interventions of Western powers in the affairs of subcontinent, and the disastrous effects on the natives of said subcontinent of said interventions. It seems the Independence struggle was in vain, that an Internet savvy Indians have failed. The secret socialist/ hidden communist founding parents always said, leave us alone, the Hindu-Muslim two-body problem is completely solvable if there wasn't outside interference. I.e., that translated into a demand that the British quit India before any one-state, two-state, N-state solutions were imposed. Source - any textbook, no need for hidden stories. Shiv is exactly right in his contention that India-Pakistan would be resolvable if there was no outside interference.

I think the biggest emerging threat to India is clueless Indian Americans who call for US involvement in India. Calling for the US to intervene on behalf of Kashmiri Pandits? What a modern analog of those clutch, spoiled and clueless princes who got the British and French to intervene in their disputes. Even the Panchatantra stories for children warn against such foolishness.

I like to believe that whatever an ex-Indian's new, mixed loyalties, that it is possible for him to at least understand and articulate Indian interests without contamination. All it takes is a bit of objectivity. Instead though we have people constantly confusing their new allegiances with their old ones. The double standard of saying whatever crap one wants about Indian leaders or Indians, but being cautious about what you say about the Americans is ample illustration of that. Anyway even if MMS is a traitor to India, only a full Indian, not an Indian American of doubtful, divided loyalty to India, has a right to make that charge. An Indian saying that Obama is a traitor to America (maybe for coddling Pakistan?) is just as out of place. The first demand of a Bharat Rakshak ought to be that this nonsense be stopped.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Anujan »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/ ... 8520120208

U.S. drone attack kills 10 in Pakistan
A U.S. drone aircraft killed 10 suspected militants in Pakistan's North Waziristan region near the Afghanistan border Wednesday, security officials and residents said, the fifth such strike this year.
ramana
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ramana »

A_Gupta, Can you please quote the poster name when you use that feature?
Thanks, ramana


I agree with you third para about clueless NRIs. One worthy showed up at a BRF mtg and wondered when we are going to invade Iraq before it happened. Needed to figure out which meeting he was attending!!!

-----------
Anujan looks like the TSP is now naming enemies. Earlier it used to be as if drones show up due to djinn power.
KLNMurthy
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

sanjaykumar wrote:Okay, an explanation. One needs to be very cautious in posting anything that can be construed as being remotely threatening. Recently a Briton was deported from a Nevada airport for posting on Twitter that he was going there to destroy the place. Of course he meant it as in getting drunk/having a good time.

Injudicious remarks like the one referenced by my 'pompous' remonstrance can only serve to activate every DIA bot known to security agencies. Even if it was not serious why put others on this board under any stain. You can bet a bunch of swarthies discussing nuclear bombs, colonialism, Islamic aggression, Christianity are already hurtling towards various trip wires.

Yes free speech and all that but let us not be ingenuous.


PS I prefer to be called arrogant, not pompous :mrgreen:
Gives a whole another meaning to "where the mind is without fear." If the mind is without the fear, that means the fear must be within the mind, no?

Jai Ho.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pgbhat »

Ramana wrote:One worthy showed up at a BRF mtg and wondered when we are going to invade Iraq before it happened.
:rotfl:

in WaPo.
Pakistan’s new envoy brings liberal charm but faces slim chance for diplomatic thaw
Anujan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by Anujan »

^^^^^
A few nuggets about Sherry gathered from several birdies.

Apparently the lady is a firm army plant. Used to head the Jinnah Institute, magically made Ejaz Haider the chief of the institute *before* the good Haqqani was sacked. Also the institute (at about the same time as the good Haqqani was sacked) released a report about the endgame in Afghanistan. I havent read it, I think some rakshak should find a link and post it here. Last I heard, the report had a wish list that US should leave, give a pot of money to the Pakis and also entrust Afghanistan to them. The institute itself served many purposes. First it burnished Sherry's resume (the lady had written a book on Shawls, as compared to the good Haqqani's seminal work "The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups"). Secondly it served as a "think tank" outlet for the Paki army to communicate its negotiating stand to the west.

The lady also is appreciated much for held "bold stance" in introducing a legislation to tone down the blasphemy laws. Turns out that the real force towards drafting the law and canvassing support for it was Asma Jehangir. Sherry just planned on waltzing in and claiming all credit, and called a press conference where she passed it off as her idea. Misunfortunately, she had misjudged the purity of the more pure who went nuts and she had to lay low.

So, the claims of being "liberal" and "civilian face" are both BS.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by ArmenT »

Another National Bird Sighting in Pakland accounts for 10.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16939853
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

Contempt case: Gilani files appeal against charges
The 200-page appeal pointed out 53 legal and constitutional points which emphasise that the prime minister did not go against the Constitution by not writing a letter.

It also said that the court cannot question the prime minister’s responsibilities according to the Article 248 of the Constitution.

Barrister Ahsan said he based the appeal on precedents set by top courts in Australia, Britain, France, India and the United States.
Legal experts say that Gilani can only avoid being charged by appealing, apologising or promising to write to the Swiss.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by pankajs »

Simply unbelievable
There is nothing like the prospect of an upcoming election to suddenly make the impossible possible. Minister for Water and Power Naveed Qamar told the National Assembly that the country would be free of load-shedding from February 7, a claim that would be great news if there was any chance of it being true.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by svenkat »

ArmenT wrote:Another National Bird Sighting in Pakland accounts for 10.
OT: Went to this dhaaga in deffndumb.The posters reactions are unbelievable,they have lost faith in the marital fauj and some 'bhartis' are rubbing it in with their sympathies.

This difference is important.While there is much that is wrong in India,there is handwringing and whining,the essential tone is of confidence and hope.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by SSridhar »

svenkat wrote:While there is much that is wrong in India,there is handwringing and whining,the essential tone is of confidence and hope.
I don't visit that forum. But, you are spot on about the hopelessness. My interaction with the Pakistanis convinced me even a dozen years back (before 9/11) that they had already lost all hopes.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by anupmisra »

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,”
It was the fourth air force jet to crash in training in over three months.
harbans
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by harbans »

I think Deffndumb is down for some maintenance last couple of days. You went to the other forum.

However it seems all killed in the action were Pakjabi's and not locals. Whatever happened to Kiyanahi's Shooting Drones and similar rhetoric. I think this is the 4th or 5th strike after the border incident.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by abhijitm »

A_Gupta wrote: Anyway even if MMS is a traitor to India, only a full Indian, not an Indian American of doubtful, divided loyalty to India, has a right to make that charge.
He/She can spell out his/her fury over GoI policies if he/she, an NRI, has voting rights. Do you disagree?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Post by shiv »

abhijitm wrote:
A_Gupta wrote: Anyway even if MMS is a traitor to India, only a full Indian, not an Indian American of doubtful, divided loyalty to India, has a right to make that charge.
He/She can spell out his/her fury over GoI policies if he/she, an NRI, has voting rights. Do you disagree?
Actually anyone can criticise anyone else. But the utter hypocrisy of this is revealed when a person is quite comfortable to spell out his "fury over GoI policies" but will not tolerate a word of criticism about US of A polices because
1. He is a US admirer/rahrah agent/first line of defence of USA echandee
2. He is shit scared that his job/visa/status in USA will be affected if he is critical of the US because FBI/CIA are reading all this and he will be deported from Nevada back to Marathwada

Long ago I had written an article about the Hindu dhimmi-liberal, who is too scared to criticise islam and is happy to be critical of Hindus. Islamists will anyway criticise Hindus. So together the two will be unfailingly critcal of Hindus and spare Islam.
On BRF we have a situation where people are all brave enough to be unfailingly critical of Indian leaders but are too scared/reluctant to criticise US leaders. The net result is that on BRF
1. India policy always wrong
2. US policy always right

It is a different type of dhimitude. Dhimmitude to the US. Jo Nagpur mein dhimmi woh New York mein bhi dhimmi

And this type of bias is called "BRF ahead of curve" in an onanistic act of self congratulation. Note how secularists praise their own dhimmitude.
Last edited by shiv on 08 Feb 2012 20:09, edited 1 time in total.
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