Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Shaashtanga » 29 Jan 2012 10:05

In a preview for Sunday's "60 Minutes" interview, Leon Panetta talks about Pakistan's role in hiding Osama bin Laden. (Jan. 28) (CBS News)

Now if someone in the local language media please translate it and let the most pious momin know that security establishment (Puki Army + ISI) were involved in hiding Bin-Laden and even telling his wherabouts to CIA thereby implicating themselves as the main reason behind shahadat of great mahdi Bin-Laden. Lets hope for some more green on green violence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/panetta-on-pakistans-role-in-hiding-bin-laden-052/2012/01/28/gIQAhLP6XQ_video.html
Last edited by Shaashtanga on 29 Jan 2012 11:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby chetak » 29 Jan 2012 10:32

Shaashtanga wrote:In a preview for Sunday's "60 Minutes" interview, Leon Panetta talks about Pakistan's role in hiding Osama bin Laden. (Jan. 28) (CBS News)

Now if someone in the local language media please translate it and let the most pious momin know that security establishment (Puki Army + ISI) were involved in hiding Bin-Laden and even telling his wherabouts to CIA thereby implecating themselves as the main reason behind shahadat of great mahdi Bin-Laden. Lets hope for some more green on green violence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/panetta-on-pakistans-role-in-hiding-bin-laden-052/2012/01/28/gIQAhLP6XQ_video.html



I seriously doubt if the US of A would openly and blatantly finger the one guy who "helped" them to get bin laden. The paki army and other uber islamic momins are clearly off the hook and can still maintain the facade of plausible deniability.

Such an action also flies in the face of all methodology of intelligence operations and would seriously compromise future and on going operations as operatives may no longer trust the US.

This is a case of black lentils onlee.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 29 Jan 2012 11:02

Khali Dabba , Khali Bottle, Khali Bheja, Khali Pocket Dekho Mere Yaar
expired medicines recovered from Jinnah Dhospital
LAHORE: Expired drugs worth of rupees crore have allegedly been recovered from drugs store of Jinnah Hospital, here on Saturday night, Geo news reported.The raid was conducted by the team of health department on the instructions of Chief Minister Punjab. The team has sealed all the medicines.According to the team, expired drugs included Morphine injections and life saving drugs among one imported medicine.Chief Eggecutive of DJinnah Hospital Dr Javed Akram said that all the medicines in the store are of standard and imported. He said that all the medicines was donated by US and Britain which are provided free to poor people.Dr Javed added that they always disposed expired medicines.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 29 Jan 2012 12:46

[url]tribune.com.pk/story/328742/ties-with-the-us-committee-stops-short-of-concrete-advice/[/url]
With a parliamentary debate on Pakistan-US ties around the corner, the civil and military leaderships have struck a rigid tone in public. However, the eagerly-awaited recommendations by a parliamentary panel, which are expected to form the base of this debate, are mostly open-ended, The Express Tribune has learnt.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 12:58

US adds a sour drop to polio campaign
ISLAMABAD, Jan 28: While Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani is set to launch the first polio campaign of 2012 in the backdrop of rising cases of the crippling disease; US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta might have already made a dent in the drive.

In an interview to the media on Friday, Mr Panetta praised Dr Shakil Afridi, who is under the custody of Pakistani security agencies for launching a fake polio vaccination campaign in Abbottabad and tipping the US government about the presence of Osama Bin Laden there. :rotfl:

The statement came at a time when Pakistan was trying to convince the international donor agencies that it was doing its level best to rid itself of the crippling virus.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 29 Jan 2012 20:46

^^^ well timed release...

Seems Unca Sam wants future terrorists to move around in crutches so they take more time to approach you with their suicide jackets.. :lol: Why not pull the old trick from book - say that polio vaccine is made out of pork belly?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby abhijitm » 29 Jan 2012 21:01

Shaashtanga wrote:In a preview for Sunday's "60 Minutes" interview, Leon Panetta talks about Pakistan's role in hiding Osama bin Laden. (Jan. 28) (CBS News)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/panetta-on-pakistans-role-in-hiding-bin-laden-052/2012/01/28/gIQAhLP6XQ_video.html

Can't see the video in India. Is there other link to the video?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 29 Jan 2012 22:53

http://tribune.com.pk/story/328364/mumbai-attacks-pakistani-panel-yet-to-inform-indian-court-of-arrival-date/

Despite a lapse of about two weeks, the government has not replied to the Indian government’s letter inquiring when Pakistani officials will travel to India to record their statements regarding the Mumbai attack probe.
Concerned officials of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) ignored the directives of Interior Minister Rehman Malik and FIA Director General Syed Tahsin Anwar Ali Shah by not referring the case to the ministry of finance for its approval of travel and accommodation expenses due to be incurred.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Dipanker » 29 Jan 2012 23:09

If you are a Shia muslim, Pakistan is the wrong country for you, Shia muslims were better off in united India, and are better off in India.

Doctor killed in ‘sectarian’ attack

KARACHI: A doctor and trustee of an Imambargah was shot dead in front of his house in Federal B Area on Saturday morning.

Investigators said that the murder could be part of ongoing sectarian killings.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby RajeshA » 29 Jan 2012 23:57

Suppiah wrote:^^^ well timed release...

Seems Unca Sam wants future terrorists to move around in crutches so they take more time to approach you with their suicide jackets.. :lol: Why not pull the old trick from book - say that polio vaccine is made out of pork belly?

I've heard all Chinese medicines use pork bones and fat in their medicines!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Mahendra » 30 Jan 2012 02:24

All that animal benis that the Chinese put into their medicines still doesn't give them a pig benis. Now I hear that Chinese medicines are making Bakis drop like flies Baki hospitals. Out of favour mai baap America conducts fake polio programmes, in favour mai baap China sells fake medicines. I think the only trust worthy source for medicines in Bakistan is India, I've heard from a source that Jarnail Kiyanahi's daily dose of Himalaya drug company's Isabgol is routed via Dubai and the Jarnail insists on the Himalaya brand onlee.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2012 05:56

RajeshA wrote:
Suppiah wrote:^^^ well timed release...

Seems Unca Sam wants future terrorists to move around in crutches so they take more time to approach you with their suicide jackets.. :lol: Why not pull the old trick from book - say that polio vaccine is made out of pork belly?

I've heard all Chinese medicines use pork bones and fat in their medicines!


The pork bone is a harmless inert component. For example tablets with just 1 mg of a medicine need to have an inert substance to make the tablet visible. What could be better than powdered pork bone in China. Cheap, plentiful and ubiquitous. Pakistan have been having this for years - there should be no worry. Chinese pork bone in medicine is perfectly safe.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 30 Jan 2012 05:59

^^^
Also it is a pretty useful way of disposing off pork bones. The bones are sterilized before being used in tablets. If not, they would go into landfill and rot creating a whole set of problems.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2012 06:07

Anujan wrote:^^^
Also it is a pretty useful way of disposing off pork bones. The bones are sterilized before being used in tablets. If not, they would go into landfill and rot creating a whole set of problems.



Actually they do safely dispose of most of the bone. Only the thigh bone is used for medicines. But I think in Pakistan the cold chain to preserve Chinese medicines is poor and hence the Chinese medicines may have become toxic. But Pork thigh bone is a vital component of pharmaceuticals in from China.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby ArmenT » 30 Jan 2012 06:23

One small nugget that showed up about the phony heart medicine in Pakistan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16772459
Towards the bottom of the article, we see the following:
Five Pakistani drug firms are under investigation - none of them have commented on the allegations.
...
...
And there may be risks for patients outside Pakistan.

Two of the pharmaceutical firms under investigation export drugs to other Asian nations, and to Africa.

Severe dent to Paki economy right there, if the last bit of news gets spread around more.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Jan 2012 06:45

Philip wrote:Bl**dy 'ell! $2.34 M as compensation for killing two ISI rats?! What effing hypocrisy.What did the victims of the Bhopal Tragedy get by way of comparison? Unless you string up a Yanqui by the neck and threaten to hang him high,or kidnap him,or threaten to lynch him in public,a serious response will never be obtained from the US of A.This is what the Pakis are threatening the US with and the US meekly submits.While we scream hoarse about the inequalities in the Indo-US relationship,the Pakis understood Mao's dictum about power....flowing from the barrel of a gun,and using it against the US and West.But then,in India,our babus love to jaw,jaw and write reams of nonsense.

Philipji,
You are looking at it in the wrong way. Pakistan is Amrika's whore. And people have phoonkofied jamindari and jagirdaris on whores. No big deal! Yaisa to hota hi hai.
Gautam

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 30 Jan 2012 06:50

Mahendra wrote:Jarnail Kiyanahi's daily dose of Himalaya drug company's Isabgol is routed via Dubai and the Jarnail insists on the Himalaya brand onlee.


All that GUBOing must have clogged up the system...mard-e-momin that eat pure meat dont need isabgol unlike shivering in dhoti vegetarians in normal case..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 30 Jan 2012 06:51

shiv wrote:Only the thigh bone is used for medicines.


You mean thigh is more haraaam than other parts?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Jan 2012 06:57

shiv wrote: But I think in Pakistan the cold chain to preserve Chinese medicines is poor and hence the Chinese medicines may have become toxic.

Shiv, deaths due to fake and contaminated drugs are rampant in China itself. There have been many seizures of fake Chinese drugs with 'Made in India' tag in African and Latam countries. Pakistan may claim poor storage facilities (which is true also) to keep the taller friends' H&D in tact but that might just be only a part of the story.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 30 Jan 2012 07:08

There is intense lobbying and shadow boxing going on vis-a-vis Pasha's retirement (due in March) and his possible extension and succession plans. Really complex game this. Some want Pasha's head to be traded for some civvie head for Quid-pro-quo. Some want Pasha's head as proof that Army wants genuine rappoachment. Some think not extending Pasha's term means Ashphuck's term will not be extended either. Then there are people under Pasha's rank who want to be promoted....

The game is quite complex to follow.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 30 Jan 2012 08:30

Hello Folks,

It appears that Difa-e-pukistan is going totally out of control. Hafeez-e-pig, Pig-e-HamidGul, maulana-sandwich, sheikh-pig--rashid, pigs-of-Sipah-e-sabah and chosen most wanted pigs in pukistan met at Minar-e-Piggistan earlier drawing huge crowds. Now, their third conf held at Multan was also huge sucksex. Nara-e-truckload-of-beer everywhere.

Those interested check out the vids/footages on u-tube. Hope participants use good judgement before posting those here yet.

DPC to clear Pakistan of American footprint

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Jan 2012 08:34

Anujan wrote:There is intense lobbying and shadow boxing going on vis-a-vis Pasha's retirement (due in March) and his possible extension and succession plans. Really complex game this. Some want Pasha's head to be traded for some civvie head for Quid-pro-quo. Some want Pasha's head as proof that Army wants genuine rappoachment. Some think not extending Pasha's term means Ashphuck's term will not be extended either. Then there are people under Pasha's rank who want to be promoted....

The game is quite complex to follow.

Anujan ji, thanks for the info which only you can get. I thought that Kayani's term was extended for 3 years in one stretch while Pasha's was extended only by one year with a possibility of another year's extension after a review at the end of the first year. So, Gilani can choose not to extend Pash's term when it comes up for review in March (or May ?).

Be that as it may, I am quite astonished by the general resistance to the PA/ISI put up by Zardari/Gilani combo since 2008. First, they decided to bring the ISI under civilian control which indeed misfired within a few hours and the orders had to be withdrawn hurriedly. But, the effort was well worth recognizing since nobody before had attempted this. Then, Zardari bravely attempted to redefine the nuclear doctrine to NFU by himself, which again fell through. Again, the attempt needs recognition. The Pakistani Supreme Commander described India as not the threat facing the country, puncturing the PA's raison d'etre. After 26/11, Gilani agreed to send the ISI Chief to India, which he had to retract immediately under PA/ISI pressure. Normally, I would have called it a coordinated drama between the civilians and the khakhis, but this appeared genuine to me. Then, the political setup agreed to the Kerry-Lugar-Berman bill, which imposed restrictions on the PA and directly named the LeT, but the bill had to be eventually diluted as the PA put its foot down and the Americans dithered and surrendered to the khakhis. Even the extension of the terms of Kayani & Pasha were not automatic and they were kept on tenterhooks for quite a while before the announcements were made. Gilani's recent taking on of Kayani, through the interview to Xinhua, or in the National Assembly, and his sarcastic remarks about the type of visa given to OBL for staying in Abbottabad, were unprecedented IMO. He then sacked the Lt. Gen. who was the Kayani choice for Defence Secreatry's post and for the first time, since the 70s, appointed a civilian as the Defence Secretary. The Def Sec was blamed for causing a rift between the govt and the PA, a nice reason which put the PA on the mat. The replacement was a woman, to add to the insult of the mard-e-momin. I have not seen such concerted efforts to tame the PA/ISI anytime before.

Therefore, let us see what happens to Pasha. He offered to quit in front of the Parliamentarians during the debate after Abbottabad. So, Gilani may have a good excuse to ease him out of office though he may not cite this publicly.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Jan 2012 08:42

Satya_anveshi wrote:Hello Folks,

It appears that Difa-e-pukistan is going totally out of control. Hafeez-e-pig, Pig-e-HamidGul, maulana-sandwich, sheikh-pig--rashid, pigs-of-Sipah-e-sabah and chosen most wanted pigs in pukistan met at Minar-e-Piggistan earlier drawing huge crowds. Now, their third conf held at Multan was also huge sucksex. Nara-e-truckload-of-beer everywhere.

Satya_anveshi, I think that 'Diffa-e-Pakistan Council' is going in the right direction for the PA. The DPC is the political sword-arm of the PA and is a reincarnation of IJI of the 80s and the MMA earlier this century.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2012 08:59

SSridhar wrote:
shiv wrote: But I think in Pakistan the cold chain to preserve Chinese medicines is poor and hence the Chinese medicines may have become toxic.

Shiv, deaths due to fake and contaminated drugs are rampant in China itself. There have been many seizures of fake Chinese drugs with 'Made in India' tag in African and Latam countries. Pakistan may claim poor storage facilities (which is true also) to keep the taller friends' H&D in tact but that might just be only a part of the story.



No no Sridhar. Chinese quality exported to Pakistan is very vely good. Only the best pork thigh bones are used. Pakistanis themselves have used this for decades. Many pious mujahids have been helped by Chinese medicines containing pork thigh bone.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby SSridhar » 30 Jan 2012 09:03

Shiv, :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby shiv » 30 Jan 2012 09:04

Suppiah wrote:
shiv wrote:Only the thigh bone is used for medicines.


You mean thigh is more haraaam than other parts?


Length and firmness of (pork thigh bone) is important. Pakistanis should know that better than anyone else. I usd to work for a Chinese medicine export company and they always kept the best pork thigh bones for Pakistani medicines. Irregular vertebrae were used for other countries. The Chinese prefer ribs and pork skull

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Satya_anveshi » 30 Jan 2012 09:08

SSridhar wrote:Satya_anveshi, I think that 'Diffa-e-Pakistan Council' is going in the right direction for the PA. The DPC is the political sword-arm of the PA and is a reincarnation of IJI of the 80 and the MMA earlier this century.


SS ji, Agree there but concerned that their strategy seems to be working. Pig-e-Gul mentions that this is not "siyasat" or power game but "diffa"/defence but at the same time warn civvies of being "with them or against them."
Just another headache for the puki civvies to manage and real danger of escalation for us.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 30 Jan 2012 09:09

Shiv saare, one wonders what the readership level of BRF is amongst the pious abduls in Pakbarianland..perhaps it is a good idea to write to Nation or even better, a Urdu daily protesting against the innuendos being spread against Chinese drugs, when it is well known in international circles that only pure thigh bones from pigs are used and has been certified to be so.

Anujan-ji, your post re Pasha reminds me of my post some weeks ago when I was wondering how the junior jehadi jarnails deal with the fact that the seniors never retire or fade away, clogging up the system. After all, Kiyanahin can take Isabgol and clear it up but what about the rest of the Gen. Abduls? Perhaps the sun god can take advantage of some latent heartburn and stomach ache by supplying the right kind of isabgol to take advantage of this..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 30 Jan 2012 09:30

O Paki perre , Dwai thumm Chheni hi Khanna
Yeh Zakaat or Khairat Ko Bhool Na jaana .
De de ke yeh awaz Phooonk Sundari pukare
Pill Made of Pork Rib, Dikhayee Djannat ke Nazaree
Khatma-E-Saans ,tumm Hospitaal na Jaaana!!
O Paki Perre , medicine made in China hi Khanna.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 09:45

I thought pork is form of meat.So what is this pork thigh bone?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Rangudu » 30 Jan 2012 10:08

Pork = pig meat. Any meat, beef, pork etc. has different cuts. E.g. Pork tenderloin = literally a cut of a pig's loins i.e inner thighs. The bone from that is obviously not eaten and therefore can be used for other things.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Prem » 30 Jan 2012 10:16

Regardless, all those popping Panda provided pills will be denied their reward in Jannat. This is the greatest betrayal deed done after Arnold Benedict. The sad part is Army hospitals are full of Chinese donated medicines etc.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Anujan » 30 Jan 2012 11:04

^^^
Why is that the case? Even Hindu vegetarians sometimes eat meat-based products as medicine. It is used extensively in ayurveda. I am sure that Pakistanis will see the benefits of the curative powers of Chinese medicines and wont object towards the Pork thigh bone used as tablet filler.

BTW I read up on the internet about this and seems that pork-gelatin is used to make capsule covers for chinese medicines in capsules. So, tablets and capsules both use pork products.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jan 2012 11:13

Anujan wrote:^^^
Why is that the case? Even Hindu vegetarians sometimes eat meat-based products as medicine. It is used extensively in ayurveda. I am sure that Pakistanis will see the benefits of the curative powers of Chinese medicines and wont object towards the Pork thigh bone used as tablet filler.

BTW I read up on the internet about this and seems that pork-gelatin is used to make capsule covers for chinese medicines in capsules. So, tablets and capsules both use pork products.


Saar, Pak-is-tan is the Land of spiritually pure Muslims. There is no negotiation with respect basic tenets of Islam. The Chinese are playing around with this basic tenet.

If the public get to hear of this and this information given to certain persons of Religious standing in Pakistan along with some Financial support, all hell can be raised on this issue and the Paki public will state Paki Army has surrendered to the Chinese as it has done to America to the detriment of Islam. It will be huge stab in the back for the Pakis trusting the Chinese and Chinese making the Pakis violate the basic tenets of Islam.

It will also mean that Pakis taking such medicines are no longer Muslims or are less Muslim.

P.S-> Just check how much airlines have make sure halal food is given to Muslim passengers.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Rudradev » 30 Jan 2012 11:34

shiv wrote:
Maybe Bharat Karnad knows something that I don't know.


Here is the video presentation of Bharat Karnad's talk at the Bharat-Rakshak meet on Nov 13, 2011. The link is a playlist, the videos will play in sequence on clicking it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia3SFPG ... 052&lf=BFp

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby jrjrao » 30 Jan 2012 11:40

Well, well... that happy and talented singing band from Lahore will have to revise the Aaloo-Anday song quickly now.

Because, forget about pining for that chicken-boti in the lunchbox, but now, even the anday are priced out of reach. Only aaloo is left.

Egg, chicken prices 50pc high in ten months
...the prices of these two essential commodities have registered about 50 percent increase during the last 10 months.

The chicken is being sold at Rs 165 per kilogram, eggs at Rs.120 per dozen in different markets of twin cities which is not affordable price for a common man.

http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=137877

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby sum » 30 Jan 2012 12:05

Very happy to read that someone in MEA atleast disagrees with what MSA keeps peddling:

Relations with Pak should be India's top priority: Aiyar

MSA peddling stuff like:
Indian parliamentarian, erstwhile minister and ex-diplomat, Mani Shankar Aiyar, was one of the panelists at a major conference in Washington last week on India. The conference was held under the aegis of George Washington University's Sigur Center for Asian Studies and the Center for a New American Security -- a leading DC think tank.

Aiyar, who started the discussion of Indian views on national security and defence, at the conference titled, 'India as a Global Power: Contending Views from India' was his usual; controversial, provocative, and funny.

At the outset, he said, "The biggest threat to our national security is ourselves; if we continue to live with the illusion that we are a global power or aspire to be a global power, then we will be endangering ourselves."

"But if we stick to our traditional concept of what foreign policy is about, which is eschewing the quest for dominance and use diplomacy as the instrument of promoting peaceful co-existence, then all threats to us get diminished," he said.

Aiyar argued that "our single highest priority ought to be the relationship with Pakistan. I believe that a number of developments, not only in the recent past, but looking back over the past 65 years, would appear to indicate that if we seize the opportunity being presented to us at the moment, it should be possible for us to defuse the tension with Pakistan and thereby remove -- what most Indians would agree -- appears to be the single-most imminent threat to India."

He said that the India-Pakistan relationship "should in some ways follow the pattern of the India-China relationship as established by Rajiv Gandhi since December 1988, which is to assert your own point of view, but not allow it to spillover into tensions or any disruptions of tranquility at the borders."

"And what we have experienced with China over the last 23 years, is the path to go down with Pakistan, with respect to issues that might continue to divide us," he added.

Aiyar asserted that "this does mean that instead of aspiring to be a global power, which would be ridiculous for an India of today to do, since 80 percent of our people have a consumption capacity of less than 50 cents a day at the exchange rate and less than $2 a day at purchasing power parity, for us to pretend that we are a global power or even aspire to be one, until the people of India have been included in the growth process, which at present is involving only a small segment of our population," would be quixotic.


But, Lalit Mansingh brings him back to reality:
Lalit Mansingh, former ambassador to the United States and erstwhile foreign secretary, taking exception to Aiyar's contention, argued, "It's not a question of dominance, it's a question of our right to exist as a nation as large as we are and we need to find our place within our region."

"We need at least 10 years of uninterrupted growth at 9 to 10 percent in order to deal with our primary domestic issue, which is poverty," he said.

Mansingh said, unfortunately, for all of Aiyar's call for peaceful co-existence, "There are countries, which are threatening this path of growth and the immediate threats are of the military kind and are only from two countries -China and Pakistan."

The ex-envoy said, "I am not saying that there is an imminent threat of attack from China, but it is a concern."

With regard to Pakistan, Mansingh implied that Aiyar was being utterly naive because Pakistan "threatens India at the conventional level, at the sub-conventional level, which is through terrorism, and at the nuclear level. And, we need to face it not by mere discussion. We have been having a dialogue with both China and Pakistan for all these years (but) we haven't come to any particular understanding." { strong words by the amby. Seems straight out of BRF-speak}

Thus, he said, "Many of us have come to the conclusion that India needs strength - domestic strength. It has to be strong economically, politically, militarily, and then discuss with countries like China and Pakistan from a position of strength."


Mansingh pooh-poohed these so-called gestures by Islamabad and said Aiyar was clearly off base if he believed these Pakistan-sponsored terrorist incidents were "episodic."

"It is episodic if you regard 9/11 as episodic," he said, and noted that sixty thousand people "have lost their lives to terrorists in India. It's a serious issue and the groups based in Pakistan continue to receive the support of the Pakistani authorities," he said. "Their leaders go scot free, they give public speeches -- hate speeches -- asking their followers to attack India, destroy India."

Mansingh scoffed at Aiyar's suggestion that there should be close India-Pakistan cooperation on combating terrorism, and pointed out that all of the discussions thus far had left New Delhi utterly frustrated because "you discuss with Pakistan and then you don't get anywhere."

"Imagine, the fourth year after 26/11, we have completed the trial of the man we nabbed during that terrorist attack and who has been sentenced to death, (but) Pakistan has not even begun the process of the trials."

Furthermore, Mansingh noted, "We ask for voice samples because we have voice samples of the people who were in communication with the terrorists. (But) The Pakistani authorities say we cannot give you the voice samples and that our law doesn't allow it. What kind of cooperation are we getting?"

Real it all... MSA almost sounds like a 400% Paki if one didnt know his nationality.

Hiten
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Hiten » 30 Jan 2012 12:21

Liberation War – Historicizing a Personal Narrative - Col Nadir Ali (Retd), Pakistan Army
http://uddari.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/ ... nadir-ali/

uddari.wordpress.com
Uddari Weblog
Read Later March 30, 2011

Nadir Ali: nadirali1936@gmail.com
Liberation War – Historicizing a Personal Narrative
Col Nadir Ali (Retd), Pakistan Army


Nadir Ali, Lahore [Detail]. Photo by Amarjit Chandan

Ladies and gentlemen,
Thank you for providing me with this opportunity to be in the great city of Dhaka and be in the BRAC University addressing this august gathering.

But this interaction can only be meaningful if you ask me questions. I will answer your questions honestly and candidly. Hopefully, we will add to each others’ knowledge in this interaction.

Historicizing a personal narrative is difficult in the best of times. Recalling 1971 is a very sensitive issue and it touches most of us very deeply.

First, a little of the personal: I was in Dhaka at the Army Ordnance Depot at Tejgaon from 1962-1964 and in 3 Commando Battalion at Thakurgaon and Chittagong from 1965-1966. As an army officer, I also happened to know several Bengali officers who later became major players in Bangladesh. Among them, General Zia-ur-Rehman was a fellow instructor at Pakistan Military Academy. Brigadier General Khalid Musharraf was my roommate and course mate at Military Academy and a fellow officer in the commandos in the early sixties. General Mir Showkat Ali was also a course mate in the Military Academy. Major Ziauddin of the Naxalites and now a maulana is a personal friend. Brigadier Abu Tahir was a fellow officer in the commandos and a friend too. Many of my students at the Pakistan Military Academy also rose to high ranks in the Bangladesh Army.

The life of an average West Pakistani officer in the then East Pakistan, remained confined to cantonments among the overwhelming majority of West Pakistani officers. The handful of Bangladeshi officers who had also served in West Pakistan were naturally much more relaxed here. But the majority of Bengali officers remained distant from the West Pakistani officers, who occupied the command and key staff positions. I spent the happiest four years of my life here, but my life remained confined to family, office, officers mess, Dhaka Club. Language is the house of being. We remained non-beings in Bangladesh, or alien beings in this respect, because we did not learn the Bengali language and did not partake of the rich culture of this land.

While my personal experience in Bengal had been very positive, the story in the historical context was very different. The Bangladeshi fellow officers in the Pakistan Army rarely became close personal friends with West Pakistani officers. Even two of the very prominent Bengali officers, Lt Col. (Retd) Qayyum, whose elder brother was the Head of Bengali Dept at Dhaka University, and Group Capt MM Alam of air force who stayed on in Pakistan, are now alienated and lonely beings. People as prominent as Sher-e-Bangla Mr. Fazlul Haq and Mr. Husain Shaheed Suhrawardy, despite their prominence in the Pakistan Movement and Pakistan politics, were alienated by the dominance of West Pakistanis in politics, which resulted in the creation of the Awami League, which played a central role in liberation. AK Fazal Ul Haque started his career as early as Praja Conference of 1914. Mr Surawardy was not only a Prime Minister, but opened the China door and set up Pakistan Atomic Energy Commision and Pakistan Institute of Nuclear Technology. All these came to play key roles in our subsequent history. There may even be some lesson in history, in the sub-continental context, in the fact that the Neta Jee Subhas Chander Bose was the most fascinating of figure in the forties. He was very different from Mr. Gandhi. Who was more right is a question for you to decide. In any case, “History,” as Hegel said, “has a certain cunningness and history is always rational.” We the Punjabi Pakistanis were fighting against reason and we were the oppressors. At the same time, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman’s leadership defined the rationality of history. The Indian Army only acted on the rationale that had been created by the Awami League victory in the 1970 elections. But today I want to talk about Bangladesh and my limited personal experience in the midst of these historic and tragic events.

Before I move on to the grim events of 1971, let me recount some of my earlier experiences in Bangladesh that may illustrate the way we, as army officers, thought and were encouraged to think. Qne of the major political events of the sixties was the 1964 winter presidential election, contested by General Ayub Khan and Miss Fatima Jinnah. Historically, it was a non-event, but it gave me some insight into the working of the civil government at the time. I, a young non-entity of a captain, while doing election duty in Manik Ganj subdivision of Dhaka district, was personally called on the telephone by Mr. Monem Khan, the then Governor, to say that the area magistrate police officer and Member National Assembly were working for the Combined Opposition Party. I submitted that I had come on duty in aid of civil power and the magistrate and police officer were supposed to tell me what needed to be done and not the other way around.

Again, while on duty during the Hindu-Muslim riots in Narayangunj area, I received a call from Governor House to ask why I was feeling restrained by the DIG Police and magistrate, i.e.: I should go out and open fire whenever I felt the need. During the day, I had been reprimanded by Gen. Yahya, the General Officer Commanding, as to why some civilians were standing around as he drove past. I said that I had been evacuating some Hindu families who had been attacked. “You are not the Red Cross, boy!” the General had roared. It is likely that he had reprimanded the Governor as well. I was then ordered to carry a machine gun instead of single shot rifles and the DIG and magistrate were removed. Legally, the position was that the GOC was junior to the governor and I was way junior to the DIG and magistrate, and I was also supposed to get their written permission before opening fire. But in actual practice, the GOC could order the governor around and I could freely bypass the civilian magistrate and the senior police officer.

The next significant political event in the sixties was the Agartala Case. In 1968, at Staff College, we were given a briefing by Director General Military Intelligence. It was done very dramatically, by shutting all doors and with music from the movie “From Russia, With Love.” It was a common joke in the officer messes, that the Bengali officers called each other “General”, a rank they would supposedly hold when they seceded from the Pakistan army. What we had always treated as a joke was now being cited as “treason discovered.”! The farcical nature of the “conspiracy” can be gauged from the fact that someone as junior and insignificant as an air force sergeant and corporal were also mentioned as major characters in the conspiracy to topple state authority.

I felt then that we were headed for disaster because the powers that be were living in another world. The die was finally cast in the 1970 elections, but rumbles could already be heard. I was at heart against martial law and West Pakistan ruling over East Pakistan. But I was a young nobody and among a tiny minority in the army.

The 1970 election was as cyclonic as the cyclone over Hatya Island that year. The Six Points had been voted for and that meant autonomy for then East Pakistan. Bangabandu had thrice used the word “Bangladesh” in his election speech in Nov 1970. The then head of Pakistan Television, Mr. Roedad Khan, has written that he had told Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman to delete these words. But the agreement was to allow the leaders to say what they wanted and he refused to delete those words, it was aired as such. The results were stunning. History had been made. But while the fellow Bangladeshi officers were elated, West Pakistanis were not happy with the results.

Then came the unwillingness to accept the election results, the military action in East Pakistan and the Liberation War! The war touched your lives deeply and those who lived through it in Bangladesh mentally and physically paid a very heavy price. The entire population of Bangladesh was terribly oppressed when the army ran riot. Death stalked everyone’s life and neither life nor honor nor property was safe.

I unfortunately, was a witness and participant in those events, though I never killed anyone or ordered anyone to be killed. Still, I knew and heard about a lot of killing and other atrocities. I may have a thousand stories to tell of what I saw from early April 1971 to early October. But one persons, experience is not history nor its accurate picture.

I rejoined 3 Commando Battalion on 10th April, 1971 as second in command of the battalion and took over its command on 6th June 1971 and was there till the beginning of October 1971. A detachment of this battalion had arrested Bangabandu Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman on the night of 25th-26th March 1971, only two weeks before I joined it. I was directly under the Eastern Command Headquarter and I interacted frequently with General Niazi GO C-in C Eastern Command, and General Rahim and General Qazi, commanders of 14 Din and Gen Mitha who assisted Gen Tikka till Gen Niazi took over.

The first major incident was the arrest of Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman. Colonel Zaheer Alam, who led the detachment charged with arresting him, saluted Bangabandhu and said, “Sir, we have been ordered to take you into custody.” According to his book, when he reported to Eastern Command after the arrest the three generals, Gen Hamid, Chief of Army Staff, Gen Tikka and Gen Mitha who were present all asked only one question: “Why did you not kill him?” Imagine, if he had been shot, that would have been a catastrophe and changed many things even further for the worse. The reaction would have been far worse and the whole of Bangladesh would have gone up in flames.

But though we did not kill him then, did we not murder him as well as Mr Bhutto in a span of four years in the late seventies? In Pakistan the state apparatus was dictatorial and willful and it got worse over time. The State’s insensitivity to the dictates of law and justice was neither political nor civilized. It would decide the fate and state of the nation. Murder Incorporated had taken over.

I arrived in Bangladesh on 10th April 1971. On 11th April, 1971, I traveled to Rangpur as one of our sub units was there. The night before, I had heard enough accounts at Army and Air force messes. I wanted to orient myself. Most of the boasting in the messes was of the night of the generals on 25th/26th March and how a brigade column from Joydeblpur had “sorted out” Dhaka. There were tales galore of the Mukti Bahini’s alleged massacre of non-Bengalis and there was an album of blood and gore at Chittagong.

When I got to Rangpur, the senior tank unit commander boasted of how he had lined up the miscreants, the noisy political workers who had taken over the town till 25th March. He added some professors too for good measure. Then he took them all to a nearby brick kiln and had them shot. When I asked if there was any resistance or use of arms by those people or others in town, he said, “Nadir, you should have seen how they behaved before 25th March. They jeered at us”. ….that jeering and protesting was apparently enough to earn them a summary death sentence.

Then he added, “One of my Bengali officers too-he was protesting too much. I had him shot too.” I mildly protested “He was a fellow officer and only a proud kind?” And he was a brother officer. Sympathy for civilians was even less likely.

While the commanders in Rangpur were painting a picture of too much resistance in Rangpur, Gen Mitha had landed there in a helicopter singlehandedly with a Bengali ADC, whose pistol was the only weapon they carried. He rebuked the local commanders. He had known Bangladesh and knew what and how much resistance was likely. Perhaps his background also mattered. Gen Mitha, from Mumbai, was married to a Christian lady of Bengali origin, whose father was, Dr Chatterji, the famous philosophy teacher. The other had come to be defined in religious terms in India and Pakistan. Your level of education and political beliefs could go only as far as the fellow soldiers and your army commanders allowed it. There was a feeling of revenge among the troops for the social siege and aggressive political stance of the Awami League. The soldiers thought that Awami Leaguers were not patriotic. But the senior commanders/Generals led the way and decided that this supposed rebellion had to be put down with the force of arms.

Somewhere the think tank had also decided that Hindus were the root cause of the problem. Orders were given to spread out and pacify by force of arms, by terrorising and by picking out and killing the Hindus. A license to kill, given to a soldiery with a besieged mentality, to whom the whole of Bengal appeared alien, made it a free for all, a horrifying dance of death.

I had gone from West Pakistan. I found relief in walking out and seeing for myself. I drove all the way from Rangpur to Dhaka by road with only a driver and our personal arms. I faced no resistance or threat. If you were sympathetic with the politics of the people and could gauge the extent of resistance, you saw hought and behaved differently.

My first so called operation was on 15th April, after a day of aerial reconnaissance, I took off with two columns of commandoes and was helidropped east of Faridpur town. I was told “It is a hard area. It is Mujib-ur-Rehman’s home district. Go and let them have it! And pick out especially the Hindus.” The man giving orders was my old teacher and friend. I said “Sir, I cannot kill anybody who is not armed or firing at me. Don’t expect me to do that. That is against the law sir, even if it is martial law.”

He said “You have just come from West Pakistan, teaching your Bengali students and drinking with your Bengali friends, you don’t know what has been happening here.”

When finally I was dropped on the road to Pabna, east of Faridpur, we took position and fired to make a base for ourselves. We were up high on the road. On the low ground, I saw some civilians running towards us. I halted the firing. “What do you want?” I asked the man with a bucket. “We have brought water for you to drink.” I ordered a ceasefire. We sat down, resting against the bridge wall and started making tea. I asked the civilians, “I saw Awami League flags here yesterday, from the air.”

“Sir, we have taken those down. We have put up a Pakistan flag. You can see one from here.”

I did not know whether to laugh or cry. Then I saw a glimpse of collaboration. The villagers were kicking and dragging a poor fellow. “Sir, he is an Awami Leaguer and was demanding money from the villagers.” I searched his pockets and found some thirty bucks. I returned these to the villagers. “Should I shoot him?” asked a soldier.
“I will shoot anyone who so much as touches his weapon.” I said.
But the villagers too wanted to join us in eliminating this innocuous symbol of rebellion. They wanted to earn our approval. Soon the main army column that had come through the city of Faridpur. They were setting fire to every village along the road.
“What is the score?” asked a Rommel like colonel standing in a machine gun fitted jeep.
“Sir, there was no resistance so we killed no one.”
He gave a burst from his machine and some of the innocent onlookers standing around us fell dead.

The next episode was around 25th April, to clear Barisal, the last district town to come under army control. I knew the area and had gone as a guide with the battalion attacking Barisal. The advance party of thirty who had gone by naval gun boats the night before was missing. The colonel waited out the night on the outskirts and called an air strike before moving in the morning. As we moved forward, the city of Barisal had already been conquered by our missing advance party of thirty men! Only a sweeper, whom the colonel had killed in panic, was a casualty. But after that the battalion did do a lot of killing and looting, as I learnt later during a tour of the area. Meanwhile, “Three-pronged attack on Barisal repulsed,” said a banner headline in an Indian paper from Calcutta.

On 6th June, from a dug-in position a regular rebel battalion of East Bengal Regiment in Belonia with minefields, repulsed a brigade attack from the Pakistani army. The 53 Brigade from Commila failed with forty dead. I was called in to give commando support to a reinforced brigade attack. The night before the planned attack I jumped into the midst of the battalion at night. We faced little resistance as we were in the middle of forward and rear positions. Where the brigade attack had failed, I succeeded. The whole salient next morning was found vacant. Somehow, with this I became a hero. My CO, who had refused the mission, was sacked and I became commando battalion commander. The General commanding 14 Div Gen Qazi, after that took me along on most visits and I traveled all over Bangladesh. We provided flying guards to PIA aircrafts flying in the area and I could issue air tickets. I was very mobile.

One day after my taking over as a commanding officer, they announced demonetization of big denomination notes. I was sitting having tea in my balcony. It was raining and I saw a lot of high denomination notes flowing down into the drain. Some soldiers of mine had obviously looted those notes. My command was going to be difficult. I would never know what would happen when I turned my head! I was also reminded of an event in a distant past. In 1947 after the first monsoon rain on Aug 16,1947, I had seen looted material floating down a drain. How many holocausts was one to see in a life time!

To stay away from the kill and burn forays on the home ground, I started operations across the border with volunteers provided by Jamaat-e-Islaami. I met Prof Ghulam Azam and Ch Rehmat Elahi, who used to come to my office. I also frequently met Mr. Fazlul Qadir Chaudhry and Maulana Farid Ahmed.

I did not indulge in any killing nor ordered any, but I was aware of a lot of killing and looting done by the army all round Dhaka. At the same time, a false sense of normalcy prevailed in the limited circuit of my social life i.e, Dhaka Club, Officers Mess, Chinese food near DhanMandi. Meanwhile every Bangladeshi was oppressed and terrorized, even if not directly a victim of it. When I saw hundreds of abandoned cars on the Ghat on the road west of Dhaka and saw a fleet of cars in my own unit, I was aware of the missing or robbed masters. There were nearly 10 million refugees in India and more than ninety percent of them were Hindus. Casualty figures may have been exaggerated, but every citizen was scared and oppressed and feared for his life. Nobody felt secure even in his own house.

When I received orders to move back to West Pakistan for my promotion at the end of September, I was suddenly shaken out of my state of unreality. I completely lost my mind. I got out of my VIP power boat over Rangamati lake and got onto a nauka to share dal bhat with the surprised poor boatman. I was dined out later that evening by the rich and famous of Dhaka. I was also given a farewell dinner at Gen Niazi’s house, who as usual gave me the gift of some dirty jokes that always interspersed his daily order sessions.

I returned to West Pakistan and broke down with paranoid schizophrenia, completely out of touch with reality. I was a mental patient for two years, was hospitalized for six months and lost my memory in the process of treatment. I was retired as a disabled person in 1973. Over many years, I have rediscovered and reconstructed myself as a Punjabi poet. I acquired a literary and artistic consciousness from Bangladesh and I hope I can now validly represent the literary conscience of Punjab.

Now, as a Punjabi poet and writer I offer apologies and ask forgiveness from those who suffered so terribly in 1971. And I want to say that there are many more in Punjab who feel the same shame and regret and who are also discovering a connection between the military mindset that led to those tragic events and our own loss of culture. But alas at the time of my departure no one except my brother –in- law Justice Sajjad Sipra, decried my choice of posting.

Today, the world is changing fast. Any of the three looming crisis: the falling dollar, rising oil prices or runaway inflation and high food prices may ruin us and the regional economy. Let Bangladesh, which is thriving after liberation, lead the way. And why not ; it was here that you first talked of praja, the people , swaraj the independence and Liberation War Mukti Judh. Be it Azad Hind Fauj. Krishak Praja Dal or Mukti Bahini, these all had their origin in Bangladesh. Neither across the ocean nor across the Himalayas is anyone coming to rescue us. Together, we three can make a formidable alliance. Let us attend to our teeming millions of poor and not be misled by our habitually misleading leaders. Half of the entire world,s poor live in the sub continent. Let us not raise huge armies that can only destroy each other. I will sum up with Faiz Ahmed Faiz’s lines on Bangladesh:
“After how many Shraban rains,
Shall be washed the blood stains
After friendly intimacy.
We became strangers again.”

There was a lengthy question and answer session. Instead of twenty minutes I spoke for over an hour at the directions of the chair and people received it very well and wanted some more. There had been a lot of discussion on the subject of War Crimes Tribunal. When asked my opinion, I submitted, “Sir between you and me, the War criminals do very well in life. The real culprits always live well above the Law and only the poor and politically marginlised people will be prosecuted.”

Information sent by Ijaz Syed.
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Suppiah
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby Suppiah » 30 Jan 2012 13:57

^^^ The only way to shut up dynastic domestic servants like this idiot is for IMs to come out in large numbers and declare that anyone who is supporting or eulogising jehadi terrorists in the hope of getting their votes would be firmly rejected. They already do so, in large numbers, but their silence is encouraging such scum to fish in the pond and throw a line, hoping to catch a few votes..

Oh BTW, who has kept the country at .50c day? Is it not the ones that have been ruling for the most years at Center?

When a beijing puppet traitor tried to communalise the Indo-US nuclear deal, he was firmly rebuffed by IM groups. If same were to be done, there will be no more such treacherous talk.

Thank god we have men like LMS in the babudom..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

Postby kenop » 30 Jan 2012 14:11

Court allows Haqqani to travel abroad


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