Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

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aditya
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Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by aditya »

On a small scale, the case regarding two Indian toddlers in Norway has sparked a lot of debate about the child protection services in that country which appears to have turned into a self-perpetuating and self-serving industry under the garb of an ostensibly benevolent objective.

On a broader scale, the Government of India recently put several NGOs on a watch list.

In an age where anything with a shade of green is cool, it might be good to analyze the workings of the do-gooder industry.

A starting point would be the following article which explores the similarities between the Human Rights advocacy and extortion gangs.


Human rights groups are the new extortion gangs
Arvind Kumar | Monday, March 5, 2012

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column ... gs_1658490
Until a few years ago, it was common for extortion agencies to target business houses and demand ransom in exchange for letting them continue with their operations. The businesses were accused of having a harmful effect on the civic system and were told that they needed to pay money to function as a part of society. While such extortionists have been eliminated for the most part, their activities have resurfaced in another form and are carried out by groups that call themselves human rights organisations.

These new extortionists come armed with MBAs, wear business suits, and speak in a polished language, but their actions are not very different from those of the traditional crime syndicates. They identify a profitable sector of the industry, accuse businesses in that sector of destroying the environment or harming the poor, use their political clout to pass dubious laws that criminalise the business operations, and then demand hefty fees to certify the businesses as compliant with the new laws.
Ravi Karumanchiri
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

^^^^ If that is a sample of the thoughts of Arvind Kumar, I would like to proclaim my opinion that Arvind Kumar holds some extremely idiotic beliefs (pending futher evidence to confirm him as a complete idiot).

I wonder....

Does he believe that Indians would be safer and more secure in their lives if business was given an entirely free hand, as in China?

Does he discount the potential for environmental damage to imperil the health and livelihoods of Indians? (Does he read? Does he watch any kind of news? Does he smell the air, or is his head burried where he can't see/hear/smell/taste anything more foul than his own idiocy?)

Perhaps he thinks that Union Carbide was too tightly regulated prior to the Bhopal catastrophe? (Perhaps Warren Anderson is being persecuted, although he sits comfortably in retirement in the US?)

Maybe if Indians drop their campaign against Dow Chemical, they'll be kind enough to reopen the plant? (Perhaps the locals might like to work at that reopened facility for a few dozen rupees a day?)



I would ordinarilly follow that link provided by aditya above, but I am disinclined to read idiocy.

JMT

Fair disclosure: I sometimes wear business suits and I try to speak with polished language, but I don't have an MBA. As for the environmentally or socially-concerned business people that I know (like me) who are trying to make a better world*.... We dream of having the clout of "traditional crime syndicates". In fact, the clout of the traditional crime syndicates is entirely eclipsed by corporate interests, particularly the large, US-based Multi-National Corporations (MNCs). If Arvind Kumar can't or won't see that, than he's got to be an idiot.

*I and countless others work for a better world, for people everywhere, because misery is not profitable and perpetuating misery is not moral.

*It's actually more sustainably profitable to do things with concern for people and the environment. Good corporate citizenship comes with; much less risk of industrial accidents (and environmental clean-up and worker's compensation costs); fewer labour disputes and less risk of disgruntled employees causing trouble; fewer lawsuits of all kinds (particularly product liability); much less bad press (i.e. "brand risk") and better public perceptions that lead to a premium place in the market, commanding a premium price at the sale, and a premium on the share price as well.

India
Bravo
4
Tango
Lima

Jai Hind!

Confidential to aditya: If you want to worry about a genuine threat to India and Indians (and the environment and people everywhere), than you'll turn your attention towards Monsanto.
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by lakshmikanth »

Ravi-ji,

I am all for morally conscious, environmentally safe, responsible capitalism. If there are organizations that are not influenced by vested interests I would be totally for them.

But what I see on the ground is the contrary, and like you say, instead of turning their attention to Mosanto, they are turning their attention to Kundankulam. These are like the new versions of US medicolegal lawyers. The danger is that these guys are actively screwing up all kind of projects.
aditya
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by aditya »

Well, this thread is not about big bad multinationals, who do not stake any greater a claim to ethical or moral objectives than a steakhouse that keeps a couple of vegetarian dishes on the menu.

We are talking about specific groups whose stated goals are not being questioned, but whose modus operandi are. This in turn of course brings into question their actual goals.

Have these groups simply become victims of their own power and reach and become more engaged than necessary with serving themselves rather than the interests they espouse?

These are simply some of the points that mere invective and an emotional defense of certain values fall short of addressing.
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by ManuT »

2 examples, Bhobal Gas and "Vedanta" Industries.

for IB4TL.
aditya
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by aditya »

ManuT: could you elaborate on your thoughts?
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

Rakshaks,

I would like to recant my IB4TL call for this thread, at least until after I can respond to the issues raised/implied by lakshmikanth and aditya.

As a preview; I take great exception to any call for the quashing of dissent; I suggest that if the true complaint is delays in project progress, that the process is the source of such problems and not any of the opposing interests trying to represent their views in that process; that the process that ajudicates disputes in these regards are overly bureaucratic, legalistic, expensive, slow and ultimately indecisive; perhaps because things are far more complex than "nuclear good", "make jobs", "electricity is progress".

There is no justification for politicizing the nature of any debate that turns on matters that effect us all. In truth, for environmental issues especially, the political concept of different constituencies, of "us" and "them", of "greens" and "corporates" -- this kind of thinking is pure bunk, because we're all in this together (being that we're all sharing this planet).

I intend to offer my comments largely within the context of nuclear power. As I do so, I will try not to start from the standpoint of a foregone conclusion; because I am not a knee-jerk type of person; because I have already carefully considered these issues; and because the "answer" I would propose is more complex than can be communicated with a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down".

For the record: The so-called "Do-gooder Industry" does not exist anywhere in the world. From my own experience, certainly shared by almost every one of the hundreds of people I have met in the so-called "Do-gooder Industry", it takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, often hundreds or thousands of hours of unpaid work, and the idea that it is an "industry" is laughable. My own (5+ year) stint at a non-profit was exactly that -- non-profit (and terribly so).

Lastly, I would respectfully suggest that a good thread title should not impose an opinion, and should be very much more precise in its intention than the title of this thread, which simply names two (ephemeral) would-be entities, being the "Human Rights Groups" and the "Do-gooder Industry". Well, I would proffer that the world's most important and numerous "Human Rights Group" member is actually a police officer, and likewise the numerical and economic backbone of the would-be "Do-gooder Industry" consists of mothers who worry about their children. Is that who this thread is supposed to be about? Cops and Moms?

I will post again in this thread, but I cannot do so today. In the interim, I will be following this (poorly named and ill-conceived) thread, even though I find it disagreeable.

Thanks for reading, RK

PS: No disrespect is intended for anyone who is not a "paid hack". My words are offered with compassion for those who have been fooled into positions that are against their own interests. I will be much more specific about what I mean, when I next write in this thread. Thanks for your patience until then (could be a few days).
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by ManuT »

Still IN4TL, hence my last post on this.

I'll keep it brief.

Without do gooders Bhopal Gas tragedy would have faded from memory and all one would remember is that DOW is a good investment for the future.

Don't even want to start on "Vedanta" but again without  do gooders a terrible wrong could not have been stopped.

I am of the belief that everyone wants to improve his/lot.

If progress cannot be explained to the people who would be the ones that will be first one to be impacted then it must be paused and explained to them.

The weakest of the weak must have recourse unless you want bigger problems.

Putting NGOs on a "watch list" are clever words, what does it mean? From what little I know, 15 years ago, an NGO in the interior had to grease the elite public servants to get the money from overseas released so that they could pay there field staff. Pay for the other office staff was often delayed. The NGO could not withdraw the money on its own.

It was not GOI money, it was the money allocated to the NGO by an overseas agency.

Is there a need for watch list when the fingers are in the cookie jar.

OTOH
Start-ups to be taxed on funds from angel investors
http://www.livemint.com/2012/03/1821165 ... 2dBKfarvvI.
Start-ups raising money from angel investors will have to pay income tax from April on the funds they receive after the national budget on Friday proposed to treat the capital received as income from other sources, if the consideration received for issue of shares exceeds the face value of such shares.

For instance, consider an angel investor who plans to invest Rs.10 lakh in a start-up that has Rs.100,000 as paid-up capital, or 10,000 shares at a face value of Rs.10. To give the investor a 20% stake, the start-up will have to issue 2,000 shares. However, since the investor plans to infuse Rs.10 lakh, he acquires the shares at Rs.500 apiece, much more than the face value.

In India, experts estimate that nearly 90% of start-ups fold up in the first two years of their inception for lack of funding support. 

Angel investors include corporate chiefs, businessmen and wealthy individuals who invest their own capital—mostly between Rs.20 lakh and Rs.1 crore—in firms that are often nothing more than business ideas. In India, such investments are tiny—estimated at less than $300 million in three years—but still represent an important source of capital for start-ups. Angel investors typically invest in companies that deal with sectors that personally interest them, and are often the first investors in a company.

“This clause will completely kill all angel investment in the country and with that, spell the death knell of first-generation entrepreneurship that had begun to mushroom over the last few years,” said Indian Angel Network Services Pvt. Ltd co-founder Saurabh Srivastava, adding that various measures enunciated for small and medium-size enterprises (SMEs) will come to naught because of this one clause because angel investment precedes venture capital investment.

“Rather than giving the angel investor a tax break for making such risky investments for the common good (creation of wealth and employment), as is done by most countries in the world, we are in effect taxing them and, therefore, encouraging them to put their money in unproductive assets like farm houses and real estate,” said Srivastava.

Start-ups are important for the growth of any economy not only for the growth of businesses but for job creation. According to a Kauffman Foundation Study in 2010, job growth in the US was driven entirely by start-ups. New firms added an average of 3 million jobs in their first year, while older companies lose 1 million jobs a year, it said. 

“Instead of going forward what we have are regressive proposals,” said Sasha Mirchandani, co-founder at Mumbai Angels and managing partner at Kae Capital. “It only shows that the government does not understand the value of start-ups.”

In countries such as Singapore, the government helps start-ups through measures such as tax benefits and subsidized office space, Mirchandani said. “Here we are going backwards. This will impact new people getting into angel funding,” he said. “It will make angel funding unattractive for start-ups.”

The tax provision, however, will not apply when the consideration for issue of shares is received from a venture capital fund. Venture capital (VC) funds have larger deal sizes (typically above $2 million) and the companies have a proof of concept and some revenue traction. 

Angel networks have the option of registering themselves as VC funds, but it is not something they are keen to do. “As angels, we have the freedom of choice of investing in business models that we like and understand. If we become a VC fund, that freedom gets lost,” said Anil Joshi, vice-president at Mumbai Angels, which has a portfolio of over 40 companies.

Promoters have begun accelerating their fund-raising process from angels to escape the tax clause. Bangalore-based pluggd.in, which tracks start-ups in the country, is now looking at closing fund raising before 31 March. “If I need to give 30% to the government, what is left for me?” asked its head Ashish Sinha. 

Sinha said such clauses will encourage infusion of black money into start-ups or investors will increasingly look at convertible debentures, where the start-up takes on the investment as debt and with time it gets converted into equity.
aditya
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by aditya »

All very well, except that Bhopal is an example of a genuine crisis exploited by the do-gooder industry for their own gains, whereas the article refers to issues "engineered" by the do-gooder industry to serve its own interests with a negative impact on society.

Surely, "keeping the memory alive" cannot justify the system getting milked by some self-serving groups? Wouldn't it be better to be swayamsevaks rather than depend on dalals in order to keep memories alive?

One needs to distinguish between legitimate NGOs and organizations created by victims themselves as opposed to external groups operating on a more sophisticated version of the who-can-i-sue philosophy. The former are above board and not the intended topic of discussion here.
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Re: Human Rights Groups and the Do-gooder Industry

Post by Roperia »

U.N. asks India to repeal AFSPA

Congress's surrender to DMK on the Sri Lanka issue, which led to India diverting from its principled stance of non-interference in another country's matters by choosing to side with the west, was a disaster in the making. Now, India faces the music of human rights do-gooder industry.

If a resolution is brought against India in the UN by the Pakjabis, and Omar Abdullah and NC of J&K, for their political grandstanding at the state level, threaten to withdraw support from the center if India sided with those who oppose the withdrawl of AFSPA, it would be intersting to see if Manmohan Singh's govt. votes against India in the UN.

Hain ji, isn't that a dilemma? I suspect that after multi billion dollars scams and taking corruption to space, UPA-II can achieve another mile stone by voting for a resolution against one's own country.
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