Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

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harbans
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby harbans » 23 Apr 2012 21:57

Impalement and decapitation seem to be used as punishments in ancient India as well. So, is there always a link between these punishments with homosexual fantasies...?


Actually that is not the case. Chinese travelers to India recorded no capital punishment in their travels 5th century AD. Chanakya mentions such punishments but there he is possibly also imbibing foreign methods, possibly taken from the Greeks. Mahabharatha and Ramayana don't have a single instance where capital punishment was inflicted. Exile was the maximum given for even crimes like treason. This is from Fa Hsein..5th century

The king [of Mid-India] governs without
decapitation [i.e., capital punishment
generally] or (other) corporal punishments.
Criminals are simply fined, lightly or
heavily, according to the circumstances (of
each case). Even in cases of repeated attempts
at wicked rebellion [i.e., treason], they
only have their right hands cut off....
Throughout the country the people do not
kill any living creature, nor drink
intoxicating liquor, nor eat onions or garlic.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby member_22872 » 23 Apr 2012 22:13

Acharya wrote:Hilarious article


In Telugu there is a proverb : Vedavallara vardillandi, roughly translates to "idiots, live long and prosper!". We need more such guys who spread the word far and wide that we Indians have no ball$. This puts them into false sense of TFTAhood. No wonder they make so many strategic blunders and down hill skiing.

one more self delusional article which Acharya ji had posted in missiles thread, cross posting for easy reference:
Indian Strategic Move - Agni Missile –V Test
23 April, 2012

By Zaheerul Hassan
Quote:
In short, Indian quest for 'Arms purchasing' and development of weapons of Mass destruction is directly threatening regional peace and security of the countries like China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal. The Indian mindset believes in Maha Bharat concept. Thus she prepared her military doctrine basing on her strategy of becoming initially regional and ultimately a global power. Nuclear era added another dimension to this already bitter saga which pitched Indian against China. United States ticked India as an ally against China. United States role in South Asia always remained questionable because of its ever changing national interests. She did not even feel like condemning India on Agni-V Missile Test since US knows that Maha Bharat concept though covers area of some of western countries but ofcourse does not touch American boundaries. Indian aggressive posture is a real danger to the global peace since all her preparations are apparently connecting to another nuclear war.


From this article:
http://paktribune.com/articles/Indian-Strategic-Move---Agni-Missile-%E2%80%93V-Test-242900.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby abhijitm » 23 Apr 2012 22:50

Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan
"The era of wars has ended. We are ready to sit and resolve all core issues? whether it is Kashmir, Sir Creek, Siachen, water or terrorism ? at the negotiating table," Gilani said while addressing a conference on the role of NGOs in the development of Pakistan.

Why this sudden pappi zappi from all corners of pakiland? Whats cooking?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Gerard » 23 Apr 2012 23:02

So when will the "subconventional war" end? Has Pakistan shut down the terror training camps?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby member_22872 » 23 Apr 2012 23:03

^^^ It appears there seems to be a realization that they can't match us anymore. Slowly I think realization is drawing upon them that they are in a mess and that they have failed to achieve anything through wars, so may be this is another taqiyya? they will have everything to gain if they can wrest Kashmir, sir creek and Siachen through negotiations in the garb of peace and aman ki asha, they have nothing to loose from their end but everything to gain. So why not try and see?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby svinayak » 23 Apr 2012 23:09

venug wrote:^^^ It appears there seems to be a realization that they can't match us anymore. Slowly I think realization is drawing upon them that they are in a mess and that they have failed to achieve anything through wars, so may be this is another taqiyya? they will have everything to gain if they can wrest Kashmir, sir creek and Siachen through negotiations in the garb of peace and aman ki asha, they have nothing to loose from their end but everything to gain. So why not try and see?

They received the message from PRC China that China cannot support them anymore in any wars. The deterrence against China works and looks like it is yielding results. Need to verify this long term.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby svinayak » 23 Apr 2012 23:12

Gerard wrote:So when will the "subconventional war" end? Has Pakistan shut down the terror training camps?

This is in the control of the Uncle whose word will be taken seriously when the money supply is shut.
India needs to negotiate with Uncle on this one. Negotiation is going on right now.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Atri » 23 Apr 2012 23:21

harbans wrote:
Impalement and decapitation seem to be used as punishments in ancient India as well. So, is there always a link between these punishments with homosexual fantasies...?


Actually that is not the case. Chinese travelers to India recorded no capital punishment in their travels 5th century AD. Chanakya mentions such punishments but there he is possibly also imbibing foreign methods, possibly taken from the Greeks. Mahabharatha and Ramayana don't have a single instance where capital punishment was inflicted.


Plenty of references of capital punishment and impalement even in ancient India.. Although it will be off topic here.. let us continue with paki bashing.. we can discuss ancient Indian danda-neeti in some other appropriate thread. Why discuss the happier times here, when there was no TSP.. :D
Last edited by Atri on 23 Apr 2012 23:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Tamang » 23 Apr 2012 23:24

Posted?



:P

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby arun » 23 Apr 2012 23:26

Majid Nizami owner of a major media group in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and articulator of the wish of ”tie me with a missile and throw it to India to blow up our enemy” gets his views aired in a newspaper he owns:

India hell-bent on destroying Pakistan, says Nizami

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby ManjaM » 24 Apr 2012 00:05

Indian Strategic Move - Agni Missile –V Test
23 April, 2012

By Zaheerul Hassan
Quote:
In short, Indian quest for 'Arms purchasing' and development of weapons of Mass destruction is directly threatening regional peace and security of the countries like China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal. The Indian mindset believes in Maha Bharat concept. Thus she prepared her military doctrine basing on her strategy of becoming initially regional and ultimately a global power. Nuclear era added another dimension to this already bitter saga which pitched Indian against China. United States ticked India as an ally against China. United States role in South Asia always remained questionable because of its ever changing national interests. She did not even feel like condemning India on Agni-V Missile Test since US knows that Maha Bharat concept though covers area of some of western countries but ofcourse does not touch American boundaries. Indian aggressive posture is a real danger to the global peace since all her preparations are apparently connecting to another nuclear war.


What is "Maha Bharat Concept of war" ? Does this fellow mean Akhand bharat when talking of maha bharat?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby member_22872 » 24 Apr 2012 00:10

^^ from the article arun ji has posted:
..The MD said that India and its fundamentalist friend US have nefarious designs to deprive Pakistan of atomic power...


if TSP is so capable, even Allah can't stop TSP from getting atomic power, why beg and lobby the satan US for nuclear power? he is full of hot air. He thinks TSP is some big power which is being stopped by 'nefarious' and 'fundamentalist' powers like US and India. He should occasionally take a stroll out on the streets of Karachi, who knows one of these days he might as well understand the meaning of fundamentalism at least posthumously.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Jarita » 24 Apr 2012 00:13

This is really terrible

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.p ... i-of-Sindh

Rinkle Kumari – the New Marvi of Sindh
Marvi Sirmed
Originally published in The Friday Times in its April 13-19, 2012 issue

Malalai Yusafzai, the brilliant Pakistani girl who defied Taliban’s dictation and stood firm on getting educated and persuaded her peers to do so, is a face of Pakistan that we all want to see. More and more. With pride and denial. We like to see Malalai in denial of Rinkle. Rinkle Kumari, the 19 years old Sindhi Hindu girl who was kidnapped and allegedly forcibly converted to Islam before coercively marrying her to a Muslim Naveed Shah. The ones who show this uncomfortable face of Pakistan are condemned to be the ‘traitors’ and ‘Pakistan-haters’. If trying to correct these painful imperfections of our society is treason, let me commit it for once. Rinkle’s story needs to be told loudly and to everyone.

Rinkle was kidnapped on February 24 by Naveed Shah and four other people. Police refused to lodge an FIR and to include the names of the influential Mian Aslam, Mian Rafique and their father Mian Mithu. She was produced in the court of Civil Judge Ghotki where she insisted on going to her family but the judge illegally sent her to the police custody in Sukkur Women’s Police Station.

In sheer mockery of the President of Pakistan and his party Co-Chairperson, Mithu announced in front of many civil society activists that if Rinkle’s custody is snatched from him, he will set Mirpur Mathelo ablaze. The president had given a media statement against forced conversions earlier that day. “Come what may, justice will have to prevail” was the answer in a firm strong voice when I asked Raj Kumar, Rinkle’s uncle, if he was scared. Probably this resolve has come from years of persecution and injustice. “It has been decades that Hindu girls have been abducted and forcibly converted. We hear little or no voice at all against this oppression,” said Amar Lal, counsel to Rinkle Kumari’s family.Notwithstanding the support that media and civil society demonstrated for Rinkle, the state response remains an enigma. The Chief Justice of Supreme Court opened a long pending constitutional petition against forced conversions, filed in 2007 by Pakistan Hindu Council, and contained the names of three relatively recent cases of forced conversions including Rinkle Kumari. It was this intervention that finally infused courage in Rinkle Kumari, who spoke her heart to the CJ in camera on March 26, following which he announced in presence of national and international media that Rinkle wanted to go to her mother while Lata was double minded. He ascertained that the girls seemed to be under serious pressure, were continuously crying, were refusing to go with police. In such circumstances, honourable Chief Justice opined that before recording any free-will statement, they should be provided free atmosphere. He ordered to shift her to Panah, the shelter home run by Justice (R) Majida Razvi in Karachi. As soon as he made this announcement, Rinkle screamed in front of media that she wanted to go to her mother.

After the CJ passed orders to shift her to the shelter house, Rinkle started crying and screaming in the court, as reported by KTN TV channel, that she wanted to go to her mother. She also shrieked ear-piercingly that she will not go to the shelter house and would rather like to sleep in the court. It was heart rending to hear her say in the court that she doubted if she could get any justice in a system where majority is Muslim and wanted to make her Muslim forcibly, which is why she thought they were helping each other, not her. Prior to this hearing, every event that happened under this case screamed at the loudest, sheer weakness of the system of justice, moral bankruptcy in our institutions, our collective hypocrisy and helplessness of the highest state authorities to reign in the rogue elements of the society.
Hindu community was completely banished from attending court proceedings in Mirpur Mathelo, the other party, however, did not have any such pressure. While only four family members of Rinkle Kumari were allowed in the premises and only two in the courtroom, thousands of Mithu’s men chanted slogans outside the court and hundreds were present inside the court. An open display of weapons was a clear message to the court and judges, who could not ask any of the weapon-wielding Allah-o-Akbar chanting beards out of the court. Under these circumstances, when Rinkle was still in police custody, god knows how she managed to organize a press conference among, of course, Mian Mithu’s men and with a Bluetooth mobile device stuck in her right ear. West is bad for conspiring against Islam, but Western technology is apparently good for Islam’s spread!

When she was being dictated via blue tooth, Rinkle tried hard to satisfy questioning journalists and forgot what inspired her to embrace Islam. ‘Sura Eeklus’, she tried to pronounce Sura Ikhlaas twice, unsuccessfully though. When asked about the meaning or gist of the contents of Sura Ikhlas, she was dumbstuck and was forcibly taken out by Mithu’s son. Yes, you read it right. While in Police custody, she was under complete control of Mithu’s men. Media also learned in this press conference that Rinkle actually does not even know Naveed Shah, who she was married to hours after abduction. At 5am she was abducted from her home on February 24, at 3pm the same day she was married. Honourable Court might ask Mithu what made him make this important decision of the life of an independent woman, even if she had embraced Islam, in such a hurry?

One is flabbergasted to see so many of us not asking some basic but direct questions. Who is Mian Mithu? What is his interest for pursuing this case? He is neither Sajjada Nasheen of Bharchundi Shareef, as had been wrongly reported by some section of media initially, nor he is remotely related to Naveed Shah, with whom Rinkle allegedly eloped and embraced Islam. The Sajjada Nasheen (caretaker) of the Bharchundi Shareef dargah, Mian Abdul Khaliq, who happens to be Mian Mithu’s nephew has categorically condemned what Mithu has done under the garb of Islam. Not only him, Sajjada Nasheens of many other Dargahs (shrines) have joined in condemning Mithu’s actions, including Dargah Shah Latif, Dargah Jhok Sharif, Dargah Sachal Sayeen and Jot Jalan (the man who lights the candle / diya at the shrine) of Dargah Lal Shahbaz Qalandar. Even the Council of Islamic Ideology’s Maulana Shirani has categorically said that forcible conversion is no conversion, is rather a sin.

On April 10, Mian Mithu along with many of his supporters, held a seminar in an expensive hotel in Islamabad. In the seminar, Mithu is reported to have threatened the Supreme Court that if it gives judgment against him, he will not follow the apex court, but will follow the shariah – his own version thereof. When reminded about the President, who is head of the party Mithu belongs to, Mithu was reported to be quick to disdainfully say, “I will see the president. No one dares challenge me”. After threats from Mithu and firing by his men on Manohar Lal, Rinkle’s grandfather, the whole family had to leave Mirpur Mathelo and shift to Karachi. Three top men from Hindu community of District Ghotki are pointedly under Mithu’s threat, renowned human rights activist Mr Amar Lal, saint Sadh Ram, Rinkle’s uncle Mr Raj Kumar. No one seems to have any control on the power of this unrestrained self proclaimed clergyman.

The important question that the Superior Court has is, what will Rinkle’s family, Hindu community of District Ghotki and especially these three respectable men would do if Rinkle is allowed to join her family after the upcoming hearing on 18th March? Who will provide security to them? Is the rotten and visibly tilted structure of state institutions to be trusted by the down trodden? Is the Superior Court empowered enough to provide justice and security to Hindu community of Ghotki? If not, who will? This case poses biggest challenge to the Superior Court in its entire history. The Hindu community, in this case, represents the most down trodden sections of the society, which came out on streets in 2007 in the hope of an independent justice system. This justice system includes law enforcing agencies and lower courts. Even if Rinkle goes back to her family, an independent judicial enquiry on the role of Ghotki Police and Civil Judges should be instituted and criminal record of Mian Mithu and his sons should be produced in the court. The question arises why in last six months, kidnapping of Hindu girls, forced conversions and abduction of Hindu and Christian youngsters and saints is increased? “They want us to leave the country. They are forcing us to flee from our motherland. But we will not deter,” said Amar Lal, Rinkle’s counsel.

It is sheer mockery of judiciary when the powerful uses its system to oppress the powerless, that too, with impunity. Mithu mocked not only the law but the honourable court as well, when he sent his armed men to the court premises. He ridiculed police and all law-enforcing mechanism when he fetched Rinkle in his private car and arranged her press conference when she was in police custody. He belittled the parliament when being a part of it he violated law of land. He scorned the head of the state when he said he “will see the President”. Will any of these pillars of the state respond with iron will?
http://marvisirmed.com/2012/04/18/ri...arvi-of-sindh/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby RajeshA » 24 Apr 2012 00:26

All the Hindus and Sikhs need to be extricated from Pakistan. Otherwise they will only feed into Paki-Islamic Ideology and Machinery to be used against India.

These Hindus and Sikhs need to be given asylum in India, and perhaps a place to live where land is more abundant like in J&K! :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Jarita » 24 Apr 2012 00:28

^^^ The nation of Pakistan has no redeeming feature left. At best they are like schoolyard bullies sniveling in face of strength, at worst they are predators and sociopaths of the worse kind. They need to be eradicated from the world map and "re-educated"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby brihaspati » 24 Apr 2012 02:58

johneeG garu,

Bji,
sorry for the seeming self-goal, just wanted to be clear on the issue:
Impalement and decapitation seem to be used as punishments in ancient India as well. So, is there always a link between these punishments with homosexual fantasies...?


Over and above what Atriji has indicated, its the relative preponderance of references to impalement and ritual decapitation in Islamist sources/ME patterns compared to the "ancient" Indian. Many forms of sadistic deaths inflicted on a captive are common and shared among cultures or regimes. It is the relative predominance of certain forms in certain cultures over other forms that I am talking about. People who have themselves subconsciously associated pain/pleasure with material passing through the anus would be more appreciative of the potential feelings in their victims.

It is always, always about reducing the victim to a subhuman animal - or - if male, turning him into a female in the most obvious symbolism of expression of triumphal power - the way male chimps show their alphaness on chimp females. One of the means of identifying civilizational progress is how it treats its animals and how it dishes punishments. ME and Paki jingos/mullahcracy have a long long way to go to even realize the differences in being human and being a chimp.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Prem » 24 Apr 2012 03:12

abhijitm wrote:Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan
"The era of wars has ended. We are ready to sit and resolve all core issues? whether it is Kashmir, Sir Creek, Siachen, water or terrorism ? at the negotiating table," Gilani said while addressing a conference on the role of NGOs in the development of Pakistan.

Why this sudden pappi zappi from all corners of pakiland? Whats cooking?


This is the way they get out of Unkil's tight embrace and deny Massa Indian card to play.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby svinayak » 24 Apr 2012 03:16

Tamang wrote:Posted?

RwQ-Yj5iemg
Zaid Hamid
:P


Several things are exposed in this video. They talk about the period of 1995 , 1999 and after 911

ZH keeps the psy ops and says that Mulla Omer is a Islamic warrior and the others show MO as a terrorist.
This narrative of ZH is exactly similar to the US and the western media and also Culinary dept.
ZH also uses the word psy ops

But this global image of Islamic freedom fighters and independence fighters has been kept for so long by Uncle and the official Pak version without budging. Aftre 911 they have maintained the same psy ops.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Prem » 24 Apr 2012 04:26

http://dawn.com/2012/04/23/will-their-s ... in-kargil/
Will their sun rise in Kargil?

Agha Roohullah was one of the unfortunate passengers who was travelling to Gilgit when an unruly mob of 3,000 people attacked the bus and killed many people on the basis of their sect. Roohullah, who retaliated when the mob attacked the crying, was shot countless times in the chest for his courage.His body was thrown into a mountainous pit, discovered a week ago by personnel from security forces.“My mother wants justice and we all want to see the culprits responsible for killing my brother behind bars,” are Rizvi’s sentiments which concur with the emotions of hundreds of people fighting for their survival in Gilgit-Baltistan.A young student, on condition of anonymity said, “We have always been marginalised. To be honest I do not feel a part of Pakistan and I despise the high and mighty people of other cities. Whether we go to Lahore, Karachi or Islamabad, the residents discriminate against us and treat us like aliens. They look down upon us just because we look and speak differently.”Shaken to the core, by the force of his words, I went looking for answers.
Whilst reiterating the demands of the locals Sami said, “I have heard people chanting that their sun will now rise in Kargil instead of Islamabad, which is a perturbing sign.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Prem » 24 Apr 2012 04:35

: Pakjabii fascination with grass —Abbas Zaidi
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2012\04\24\story_24-4-2012_pg3_4
At one point, Rangeela got serious about the donkey business. In his seriousness, he did what Punjabis do when they are serious: dump Punjabi and use Urdu. (There is a lot of research literature available on Punjabis’ hatred of their own language.) He made a movie Insaan aur Gaddha (Human and Donkey) in Urdu, in which he showed how a donkey is transformed into a human being. As a human being, however, his love for grass is not diminished. He, the erstwhile donkey, is transfixed when he sees a donkey eating grass. At one point, he makes a speech to donkeys holding a bunch of grass that serves as a microphone. Ultimately, he prays to God and is retransformed into a donkey.Whereas Rangeela objectified Punjabis’ fascination with grass in a jocose way, Punjab’s greatest leaders have been very serious about grass. When India occupied Siachen in the mid-1980s, the people of Pakistan, led by Benazir Bhutto, were surprised and angry at the army’s failure to defend Siachen. Ironically, Pakistan at that time was not ruled by a ‘bloody’ civilian, but was under martial law and the sole ruler was no other than President General Ziaul Haq, a Punjabi. He reacted angrily to those who had suggested (it was not possible to be explicit in those times) that the army was incompetent or complacent. He thundered, “Gentlemen, look! Defenders of Pakistan are performing their functions with full courage. I am fully aware of my duties, we are doing our best. But is it not a matter of surprise that this whole bullshit is from the leaders of the Party [i.e., Benazir Bhutto and her Pakistan People’s Party], solely responsible for the dismemberment of half of the country? They didn’t allow their parliamentarians to attend the assembly session and as a result of which the nation had to surrender half of the country before the enemy and now they are shedding crocodile tears for a rocky and barren glacier where even a leaf of grass does not grow.”
Grass, you see! Had there been grass on Siachen, the general would have defended it with the blood of his soldiers. But no grass, no action.After Zia’s death, the people of Punjab saw the rise of another Punjabi. Nawaz Sharif was very mindful of grass in his ‘principled’ stand against India just like General Zia, his mentor. As Pakistan’s prime minister, he threatened India in no unclear terms, “We will eat grass, but will make atomic bombs.” At another point he said, “We will eat grass if we have to, but we will not bow down.” (Unfortunately, he did not tell people how grass can be eaten by humans without bending down.)Then he supervised Pakistan’s successful testing of nuclear arms. He fulfilled his fellow Punjabis’ bottomless desire to become powerful and mighty by going nuclear. The economy went down. It has not recovered since 1998 when Pakistan became a nuclear [Yes!] power. Now people have virtually been reduced to eating grass. But Punjabis are a clever species. They will not eat grass themselves. They have the Baloch and Sindhis to do that. The Baloch have indeed been serving as beasts of burden since the day Balochistan was annexed by the state of Pakistan. If, however, push comes to shove, the Punjabis can always sacrifice Ahmedis, Christians, and Shias from amongst them. In recent history, the ruling elite of Punjab has shown its ability to sacrifice these communities for political gains. However, the question is, given Pakistan’s population explosion and the proliferation of housing societies and colonies, what happens when we run out of grass?


And all this troble for getting Ghashmir from india . :lol: Like they say in real Punjabi "saale Maroonga ghatt, Ghaseetoonga jayda". Ghass Chahe free which khaa lai.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Prem » 24 Apr 2012 05:06

Saving Pakistan... and India?
Omar Ali ( A newborn Inbred BC)

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdail ... r-ali.html
[quote]Pakistan is in the throes of an existential crisis. Pakistan has always been in the throes of an existential crisis. Pakistan’s interminable existential crisis is, in fact, getting to be a bore. But while faraway peoples can indeed get away from this topic and on to something more interesting, Pakistanis have little choice in this matter; and it may be that neither do Indians.The partition of British India was different things to different people, but we can all agree on some things: it was a confused mess, it was accompanied by remarkable violence and viciousness, and it has led to endless trouble The Pakhanationalist narrative built on that foundation has Jihadized the Pakistani state, and defanging that myth is now the most critical historic task of the Pakistani bourgeoisie. Dissolution being physically and diplomatically difficult (who will handle the scramble over borders that would follow?), Salafist Islam administered by the army (perhaps with a charismatic cricketer as its public face) is the likely option.Unfortunately, it is not likely to work very well. In fact, it is incapable of sustaining even the bare minimum of modern statehood. Unlike Iranian Islam (which is literate, modern and sophisticated compared to Salafist fantasies) there is no there there. A militarized salafist Pakistan may hold together a few years in the name of war against the infidels, but after the war (and who wants a war that could go nuclear?) we are left with little more than the vague notion of a rightly guided caliph, the whipping of uppity women and the accelerated cleansing of undesirable smaller sects
.While this explains why Pakistanis need to worry, what about Indians? With enough problems of their own, why should they care two hoots about all this? I think they will have to care because there are clear limits to how far Indians can downgrade the importance of whatever craziness is going down in Pakistan. IF we go down, we will take a lot of people down with us. India is not protected from the fallout by two oceans or even the high Himalayas. If Pakistan crashes down to Taliban level, India will have to scramble to avoid the fallout and given the realities of geography and the capabilities of the Indian state, that is not a job they can do very well.
There is also a second reason why Indians should worry a little about what happens in Pakistan. India itself is a work in progress. Its integration of British India, modern democratic forms and the ancient but scientifically underdeveloped and culturally heterogeneous civilization of India is not a done deal. It is easy for commentators to “discover” that India on the ground is not as different from Pakistan as Indians may wish it to be. I am aware that there are differences and they are real; the stated ideal is superior, the historic basis is sounder, the religious landscape is too heterogeneous to even imagine monocultural purity, the dominant religion is Hinduism and so on; but the existing reality of everyday life is still very far from the ideal. While neither economic development nor democratic rule nor national integration are in imminent danger, none of these are out of the woods. If Pakistan heads for salafist Islam, India will face not only terrorist attacks or overt hostility, it will find its own problems and weak spots revealed and exploited at a time when it needs to pretend it has moved beyond them in order to actually move beyond them. The rational choice therefore is for India to help prevent such an outcome. And luckily, there is much that India can do in that direction. Trade with India has the potential to transform the economy of Punjab and beyond. Transit to Afghanistan and central Asia will double that dividend. And travel and cultural exchange with India undermine the entire paknationalist narrative (which is why Hafiz Saeed and other Jihadist leaders have been launched to try and stop any such initiatives). While it would be a mistake to get carried away with the possibilities it would also be a mistake to miss opportunities just because the Indian-nationalist narrative emphasizes the differences.[quote]
Last edited by Prem on 24 Apr 2012 06:39, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby A_Gupta » 24 Apr 2012 05:45

Pankaj Mishra (urghh) visits Pakistan and comes up with this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-2 ... uture.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Nandu » 24 Apr 2012 06:31

When I visit Pakistan, what comes out is as smelly.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby arun » 24 Apr 2012 06:36

Jhujar wrote:Saving Pakistan... and India?

Omar Ali ( A newborn Inreb BC)

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdail ... r-ali.html

............. IF we go down, we will take a lot of people down with us. India is not protected from the fallout by two oceans or even the high Himalayas. If Pakistan crashes down to Taliban level, India will have to scramble to avoid the fallout and given the realities of geography and the capabilities of the Indian state, that is not a job they can do very well.............


Stephen Cohen from his book “The Idea of Pakistan”:

“Pakistan now negotiates with its allies and friends by pointing a gun to its own head”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2012 06:37

Please allow me some semantic rambling on the topic of "normalization" of ties between Indiapakistan. "Normalization" implies a state of current "abnormality" in comparison to some previously established "normality".

This, of course is rubbish. Since Pakistan was a part of India, it was created by a violent act of ripping India. So violence is "normal". Peace is abnormality. What seems to be desired by various governments is an abnormal, "never existed earlier" state of peace between India and Pakistan. This is not "normalization". It is abnormalization, or if you don't like that word, the establishment of a new set of rules of engagement

There is no "prior history" of international relations between India and Pakistan that can be used as a template for relations. It was never an "international relationship" that can be reset to some older period. It was always an interprovincial relationship.

Relations between India and Pakistan cannot be based on Islam. Islam was used as the basis for breaking off Pakistan, and has continuously been touted as victor or victim of partition and cannot be used for mending relations. Islam may be used as a "common denominator" for relations between Islamic states, but even then there must be some economic or cultural exchange for the relationship to rise beyond like saying " I wish well for all of mankind". "We the ummah mean well for each other". If you look at cultural parameters, India has plenty of claims on areas of Pakistan based on Indian history of Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs. It was an Islamic excuse that actually chose to break off. That Islamic excuse will have to be set aside for any new relationship to develop. Even if there are claims to some Islamic cultural links for Pakistanis inside india those links can only be admitted by an acceptance of Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist irredentist claims in Pakistan.

If the irredentist claims are set aside with a view to building relations on other "secular" parameters, we find that there was no "Pakistan" for people in India to deal with. Indians were merely dealing with Indian provinces like Sindh and Punjab and Baluchistan. So historic links with individual provinces of Pakistan and the people who were settled in those provinces can serve as a basis of "historic" relations.

Historically Sindh was occupied and dominated by Islamic rulers over 1000 years ago and remained that way till the 1840s when the British finally toppled the Talpurs, the Baluchi origin rulers of Sindh who had been in power for 200 years or so. Until the 1840s Indian who dealt with Sindhis were dealing with merchants and laws of the Talpurs of Sindh. The Sindhi people were more or less independent of the Brits until 1847 and came under "Britsh rule" for a century. The British actually had spread though India by a combination of trade, diplomatic and military deals from the south and east - with Madras and Calcutta as their bases. The Talpurs of Sindh themselves had usurped rule from an earlier dynasty called the Kalhoras, who in turn gained Sindh in the early 1700s from a declining Mughal empire under Aurangzeb.

With the Talpurs having been Baluchi - there are a lot of Baluchis in Sindh so Baluchistan and Sindh are connected up. It is amazing that these provinces have come to be dominated by the Pakjabis. The reason seems to be that right from 1947 the army has been dominated by Pakjabis and Pashtuns and we have a case of "Jiski lathi uski bhains" (He who wields the stick owns the buffalo).

I have been trying to inform myself about the history of the Panchanada (Punjab) area. It strikes me that the Mussalmans of Punjab have never been rulers, they have always been ruled. At best they make loyal servants. They are more often traitors and collaborators. Please look up the history of Punjab - of which accounts exist from the days of the Mahabharata. "Punjabi Mussalman rule" has existed since 1947 onlee. The primary driver for that was the pre-existence of a lot of Pakjabis in the Paki army at independence with white masters. they vowed to continue their ass licking of white masters in exchange for perennial aid from the west. The alliance between "Pakistan" and the US is hardly an alliance between nation states. It is an alliance between the Paki army, dominated by the Punjabi Mussalman and the US. I think a lot of Indians mistake Sikh valor as Punjabi valor. Sikh valor needed leadership brains. Punjabi mussalmans have always been vassals, not leaders. You can call this stereotyoing if you like but I will myself begin to bring down those stereotypes if better information becomes available.

So if India is to have any sort of "new relationship" with the area called Pakistan, it has to be a province by province relationship. Each province will have to be treated in a way that takes into account its history and the relationship of that province to old India.

just some random thoughts that took me an entire day to put down.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2012 06:49

Jarita wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:is it all genetic, or is there an element of learned behaviour?



Can syphilis pass through multiple generations? Also would not getting fresh blood (females) dilute the effect of the malaise somewhat? This is fascinating because it may explain the violence and paranoia which is illogical and inconceivable by a stable human mind. It's like a danava


Syphilis can be passed from mother to child but is easily recognizable medically. Syphilis has historically been so big in the world that medical literature has documented syphilis inside out. An earlier generation of doctors had to learn every detail possible about syphilis - but the discovery of penicillin changed that. Even so my own textbooks were full of all details

However sexually transmitted syphilis is a little different from regular Arab syphilis (not called syphilis per se) and it is conceivable that the brain damage that it causes could well have dictated the actions of many great Islamic leaders. If their remains can be found, I am sure those bones/teeth can be tested for syphilitic infection.

However brihaspatis' posts got me thinking in a slightly different direction. Not much data is available about pre-Islamic cultures. However polyandry and equality of gender was rampant in many areas extending from the middle east to Kashmir. I wonder if the coming of Islam made it so scary to be heterosexual that the only guilt-free outlet was homosexuality. i would have thought that this is a more likely route for homosexuality and paederasty to have reached epidemic proportions among Islamic peoples.
Last edited by shiv on 24 Apr 2012 17:36, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Ameet » 24 Apr 2012 07:52

Attn dhoti wearers, pls to commence shivering: Pakistan to launch missile; alert forces India to rejig flights to Gulf

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/node/116244

Days after India conducted its Agni-V test, Pakistan has informed India it too is conducting a 'long-range missile test in the Indian Ocean' anytime from April 24 to 29 (from 8.30 to 11 am IST), and asked the Indian civil aviation authorities Monday evening to issue a NOTAM (notice to airmen) to warn commercial airlines and pilots to steer clear of the area.

"The communications from Pakistan always come in the last minute, mostly just a day in advance. Airlines have to be informed immediately," sources said.

Pakistan is developing its 'Shaheen' long-range missiles that it hopes can eventually clock a range of 4,000-4,500 kms. Pakistan’s entire nuclear-capable missile arsenal is India-specific and is trying to develop long-range missiles that has strike capacity to destruct whole of India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby arun » 24 Apr 2012 08:18

X Posted.

I make this the first long range ballistic missile launch out to sea. If memory serves all other long range ballistic missile tests by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan have had an impact point on land.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby RCase » 24 Apr 2012 11:30

^^^ So now they can claim that their missile reached its intended target near Madagascar, even if it were to fall a few kms away from Karachi into the Arabian Sea. No land impact to corroborate it! I am waiting for the Nawa-i-Waqt headline to say Bakistan joins elite group of nashuns with ICBM (International Ch**tiyas Bred in Madrassas) capabilities! :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Rudradev » 24 Apr 2012 11:37

arun wrote:X Posted.

I make this the first long range ballistic missile launch out to sea. If memory serves all other long range ballistic missile tests by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan have had an impact point on land.


That's because it is a sooper-long-range NoDong only, and they do not want anyone to actually see where it lands. On land there is too much of a chance that some goat-pasand aam aadmi will witness its failure. At sea who is going to know?

This way the brown-pants PA can fire off the missile, and brown-water PN can sail some 100km away from shore to radio back: "Yes, yes, it splashed down 7200 km away onlee, we saw it, it is better than the Yindoo mijjile!"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby sum » 24 Apr 2012 12:02

I am waiting for the Nawa-i-Waqt headline to say Bakistan joins elite group of nashuns with ICBM (International Ch**tiyas Bred in Madrassas) capabilities! :rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

This way the brown-pants PA can fire off the missile, and brown-water PN can sail some 100km away from shore to radio back: "Yes, yes, it splashed down 7200 km away onlee, we saw it, it is better than the Yindoo mijjile!"

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Dhaaga seriously needs a spill alert!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby Altair » 24 Apr 2012 15:16

abhijitm wrote:Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan
"The era of wars has ended. We are ready to sit and resolve all core issues? whether it is Kashmir, Sir Creek, Siachen, water or terrorism ? at the negotiating table," Gilani said while addressing a conference on the role of NGOs in the development of Pakistan.

Why this sudden pappi zappi from all corners of pakiland? Whats cooking?


Panda must have said to Gilani
"You are on your own buddy! A5 changes everything. Good luck!!"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2012 17:34

How can the era of wars be over? India always started all wars no? India has to ay "Era of wars is over"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby member_22872 » 24 Apr 2012 17:52

Pardon my ignorance but I am unable to see how A5 is so much a game changer for PRC that now it came to its senses and says "ok the cunning yindoos have uped the ante, now we have to step back and not support TSP".
In 1998 we conducted nuke test, it surely was meant for PRC and TSP, yet that didn't stop PRC to further stop TSP love making? Why should A5 means things have changed? In fact I would see PRC give more goodies to TSP just to maintain 'regional stability' than say "now I give up".

The recent planned missile test by TSP to me appears to be an extension of PRC's game plan and that it is intact.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby johneeG » 24 Apr 2012 18:00

I had a theory for sometime now. Pakis are going down the drain. And they know it. The west along with Pakis have tried all methods to stop India's rise. They have failed to a large extent. Of course, without west or pakis, India would have been the top player. Anyway, the fact that India is rising despite all their tries is a testimony to the failure of pakis and west.

Now, we have two points. Pakis are going down, India is rising up. Further, even the west(particularly Europe) is also going down. Infact, pakis are going down because west is not able to piggyback pakis proportionate to India's rise.

So, what is the next option for them?

If you can't beat it, join it. And work internally.

So, the pakis may want to join India in future(say a decade or two).

In a decade or two, position of pakis will be much worse. Their provinces will be so much more on the path of secession. Already, many parts of pak are not really under pak. The federal system is creating new warlords who will act more independently.

So, pakis can float a proposal of undoing the partition. The pakjabis can again become representatives of all the muslims of paklands(including the Bdesh) and bargain on behalf of them. Pakis may place some pre-conditions for this like separate electorates for muslims, or autonomy or something on the lines of article 370...etc.

The carrot for India is the possibility of 'akhand Bhaarat'. The carrot for 'secular' parties of India is the possibility of bigger vote bank. The carrot for pakis is to get the pie of Indian development and of course, green flag on red fort through taqqiyya. The carrot for the west is to use the pakis to hamper India internally.

Ironically, 'the rightwing nuts' maybe the only ones opposed to this project. The secular media will go after them for opposing this extra-ordinary reunion.

In 1947, the Indian ummah dreamers were divided into 2 groups. One group believed that they needed a separate land from where they could launch attacks and subjugate the whole India. Another group believed that it was better to stay within India and try to take it over.

Both the groups followed their opinion. After so many years, it seems the first group has failed in their goals. So, they may come around to accepting the view of the second group.

The essential point is that if one cannot make India part of Ummah, then lets make ummah part of India.

PS: I am unable to articulate all that is in my mind properly. Hope, you guys can get what I am trying to say.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby member_22872 » 24 Apr 2012 18:16

JohneeG Garu,

I agree with your two points. I think they are true. But I don't know them joining India under conditions of art 370 etc with separate electorate just because them joining Bharat would mean Akhand Bharat would be a good idea. The reason is they are like Sakuni of Mahabharat, they will make every attempt to break the whole from within. It would be difficult to manage internal enemies raging mad, that will only increase with their segregation and pacification with separate electorate etc. if TSP is a failing nation, and they have a need to save something, H&D or whatever is left, then the need is theirs not ours to compromise.
Just my thoughts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby shiv » 24 Apr 2012 19:00

Pakhanis will never join India under the current dispensation. And India will not accept them. They have spent decades in rivalry with India but that has not taken them far. The best they can do is to stop rivalry. The problem is that "rivalry with India" itself has been used for Paki unity. No rivalry and the unity itself gets upset.

But that is something they have to work out.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby chiragAS » 24 Apr 2012 19:02

didnt know where to put this so placing it in this thread.
Pakistani stores eye Indian markets

Jung ToI initative
dedicated page is here Link

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2

Postby g.sarkar » 24 Apr 2012 19:32

http://www.samachar.com/After-AgniV-Pak ... dfbja.html
After Agni-V, Pakistan to launch long-range missile in Indian Ocean
Sify.com / News / International / After Agni-V, Pakistan to launch long-range missile in Indian Ocean
Source : ANI
Last Updated: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 18:22 hrs
"Days after India successfully test fired the Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) Agni-V, Pakistan has informed India that it plans to conduct a long-range missile test.
Pakistan plans to conduct the long-range missile test in the Indian Ocean over the next five days. "
Gautam


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