Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

[krishnan]

and how do they intend to get the payment ????

[anupmisra]

Lessons Pakistan can learn from China
Or, we are so similar!
By SM Hali

The friendship between Pakistan and China, which has withstood the test of time, has been equated to a solid concrete edifice and been the envy of many in the region as well as the world.

China’s glorious past, extremely rich culture and a very advanced civilisation, had to face trials and tribulations due to its occupation by Japanese and European forces; circumstance, which are similar to what the Muslims of the Indian Sub-Continent faced.

Similarly, the Indian Sub-Continent was ruled in glory by the Moghuls, until the British, through their machination occupied this jewel in the east and plundered its riches and subjugated the Muslim population.

Independent Pakistan comprised territories, which were already impoverished and to make matters worse, India usurped most of the assets, which were designated as Pakistan’s share after the partition.

The frail economy of Pakistan took a further pounding because of the mass exodus of millions of Muslim refugees headed towards it from India, compounded by the 1948 Pak-India war over Kashmir

Pakistan can take a leaf out of China’s tried and tested economic reforms and adopt them after modifying them to local conditions. Pakistan’s economic condition has reached such a dire state that it needs to totally revamp its reform policies and infrastructure so that dependence on foreign aid as well as international debt can be reduced.

O'China...How I love Thy Land....(sung to the tune of "O'Canada!")

[Lilo]

More Zaziya; after sharing scarce power and locomotives, we will now give Pakis cheap oil.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... /166160/on

The News daily reported that India had come up with a "surprise offer" to cater to all of Pakistan’s petroleum needs by exporting 50 million tonnes of POL products per annum. It also offered to provide POL products at prices lower than that paid by Pakistan for imports from the Gulf.


The two sides are also expected to discuss the import of 200 million cubic feet of liquefied natural gas a day from India.

Pakistani authorities believe the import of LNG from Qatar and other countries like Malaysia would take three years, while India might start supplies in six to eight months, an official said.

Wah, wah.

You are confused over the cause of what makes Indian refined products cheaper to the pakis ....

AFAIK,

Current status -- > The refined petro products exported by Gulf refineries are offloaded at Karachi harbour (which acts as a break of bulk center) and then laboriously transported on road tankers (not even rail !!) upto the La-Whore-Pindi-Isloo conurbation.

Envisioned status -- > The crude which is cheaply pumped through pipeline from mundra upto bhatinda will be processed at GGSR and a capacity of upto 1 million tonnes out of 10 million will be earmarked for export to the Pakis. Ofcourse the prices of these products will be pegged to the international crude prices - but may still be cheaper to the pakis because of the large savings on the road transport costs.

Refining Industry is a capital intensive and super high tech industry these days and Pakis can only dream to establish new refining capacity for the next two decades (unless cheenis decide to lay a pipeline through karakorum). Its good that dependencies are created and little carrots are dangled in front of the donkey all the while making an easy buck (refining industry in india is highly export oriented).

The immediate loosers to such an arrangement will be the pasthun dominated transport network which plies between Karachi and the North - long term loosers will be the dafaa-ho-pakistan types and caliphatists with in the paki establishment who hope to initiate gazhwa-e-hind with a first strike over many such refineries dotting our western border to pakistan. Ultimately in Indo-paki context, dependencies are good - because in overhelming number of cases it is the pakis who will be dependent upon us.

[chetak]

And that's not all............Unbelievable

and Reliance is getting raped at $4.13/MMBTU

India to ensure safe gas transit from TAPI; to pay $13 a unit

NEW DELHI: India will pay $ 13 for buying natural gas through the much-celebrated TAPI gas pipeline and will take indirect responsibility for safe transit of the fuel through high security risk areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

India on May 23 signed agreement to buy natural gas from Turkmenistan at a rate equivalent to 55 per cent of crude oil price which, at $ 100 a barrel, translates into $ 9.17 per million British thermal unit, sources privy to the development said.

After adding transit fee and transportation charges, the gas through Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) line would cost $ 12.99 per mmBtu at Indian border, three times the price paid to ONGC and Reliance Industries for producing natural gas from domestic fields, they said.

The rate agreed to flies in the face of oil ministry which has been stonewalling any increase in price to be paid to domestic producers arguing that a higher gas price would lead to an increase in power tariff and cost of fertiliser, thereby entailing higher government subsidy outgo, they added.

Besides the higher price, India has also in the Gas Sales and Purchase Agreement (GSPA) signed in Caspian Sea resort of Avaza, Turkmenistan agreed to take delivery of natural gas at Turkmen-Aghan border.

State-run gas utility GAIL India, which signed the GSPA, will then entrust the delivery of the gas to a consortium which will operate the TAPI pipeline, they said, adding that GAIL will be a prominent member of the consortium building and operating the 1,680-km line.

Sources said GAIL will pay Turkmengaz, the national oil company of Turkmenistan, on delivery of gas at Turkmen-Afghan border. Thereafter, the consortium which will have GAIL as partner, will take responsibility for transit of the gas through Afghanistan -- one of the top high security risk countries in the world, and terrorism hotbed Pakistan.

[Sanku]

Ultimately in Indo-paki context, dependencies are good - because in overhelming number of cases it is the pakis who will be dependent upon us.

Yes, dependencies are good -- we can depend that Indians will work as coolies, we can depend that Pakis will not a paisa of honest work. We can depend that Pakis will merrily come and kick us around at their own sweet will, while we discuss what should be the format of complaint dossier.

We can also depend why some Indians will come and justify making your mortal enemy stronger is a good thing.

Yes, dependencies are good.

[Lilo]

^^ Chetakji,
the article itself looks like a paidnews item when it makes the wrong comparision of TAPI gas price with internally sourced reliance gas from KG basin.
It has been written in context of the ongoing tussel between Indian govt and Reliance over gas pricing from KG basin. Also the ultimate guarantee for TAPI deal will be Unkil with his new silk road initiative. Its diversification in India's case.

An obvious logical comparision will be with the external gas price - say from the deal india signed with oman which is no less than 15$ per mmBtu AFAIK.

Sanku ji,
rhetoric doesnt make an argument.

Please tell me why displacing pakistan's existing petro supply sources from GCC will suddenly make pakis stronger while making india weaker.

To make things clear india is going to sell a "consumable item" (as opposed to a capital item) to pakis (in an annual contracting basis ?) on commercial terms .. why is every one getting their chaddi in a twist .. like the sky has fallen.

[Pranav]

And that's not all............Unbelievable

and Reliance is getting raped at $4.13/MMBTU

India to ensure safe gas transit from TAPI; to pay $13 a unit

Turkmen oil fields are owned by west-based elite families. Besides that there is the Jaziya to the Paks.

[Pranav]

Yes, dependencies are good -- we can depend that Indians will work as coolies, we can depend that Pakis will not a paisa of honest work. We can depend that Pakis will merrily come and kick us around at their own sweet will, while we discuss what should be the format of complaint dossier.

We can also depend why some Indians will come and justify making your mortal enemy stronger is a good thing.

Yes, dependencies are good.

+1.

Folly to charge Pakis anything less than international market prices, 100% to be paid in advance.

[KLNMurthy]

IB4TL
AoA

[Sanku]

Sanku ji,
rhetoric doesnt make an argument.

What argument!!!!

Please spare me the "trade at commercial terms" theory. It does not take a genius to see what is happening here and what are the issues involved.

Kindly dont disrespect our intelligence. Please.

[chetak]

^^ Chetakji,
the article itself looks like a paidnews item when it makes the wrong comparision of TAPI gas price with internally sourced reliance gas from KG basin.
It has been written in context of the ongoing tussel between Indian govt and Reliance over gas pricing from KG basin. Also the ultimate guarantee for TAPI deal will be Unkil with his new silk road initiative. Its diversification in India's case.

An obvious logical comparision will be with the external gas price - say from the deal india signed with oman which is no less than 15$ per mmBtu AFAIK.

Lilo ji,

You seem to have missed the point by a country mile.

We seem to have signed a stupid agreement ( as per US wishes and throwing our supreme national interests out the window as always.)

The price and reliance be damned.

Why are we accepting the risk of transportation thru Af Pak??

GAIL has suddenly recruited an Army??

And we will PAY for and take DELIVERY of the gas at Turkmen-Afghan border??

Are we MORONS? sorry that should have read we are MORONS!

[Mihaylo]

Lessons Pakistan can learn from China
Or, we are so similar!
By SM Hali
....the Indian Sub-Continent was ruled in glory by the Moghuls,

Oh, how I hope the day comes when the Uighur Moghuls spread their tentacles and gloriously rule China the way the Moghuls 'gloriously' rulled India.

-M

[Lilo]

Sanku ji,
rhetoric doesnt make an argument.

What argument!!!!

Please spare me the "trade at commercial terms" theory. It does not take a genius to see what is happening here and what are the issues involved.

Kindly dont disrespect our intelligence. Please.

Again rhetoric . For the record i did't disrespect no ones's intelligence.
But simply asking ... Arent you just out from your ban due to your IEDs in nuke dhaga ??
why do you you want to muddle up arguments in this thread also ?

Lilo ji,
You seem to have missed the point by a country mile.
The price and reliance be damned.
Why are we accepting the risk of transportation thru Af Pak??
GAIL has suddenly recruited an Army??
And we will PAY for and take DELIVERY of the gas at Turkmen-Afghan border??
Are we MORONS? sorry that should have read we are MORONS!

Chetakji,
The specifics are not yet clear ... so i wont be judgemental on them.
As i said, US is supposed to be the ultimate guaranteer of TAPI gas. How it translates to reality is an unknown to me at this stage.

[Anujan]

Dhaaga got its 72! AoA!!

[Lilo]

Dhaaga got its 72! AoA!!

Anujanji,
please to enlighten us on the TAPI deal specifics in the context of the discussion in the new thread.

[shiv]

Are we MORONS? sorry that should have read we are MORONS!

Isn't it normal for Indians to feel that way about other Indians? It is normal for Indians to feel that way about other Indians

[Sanku]

quote>>
Sanku ji,
rhetoric doesnt make an argument.


What argument!!!!

Please spare me the "trade at commercial terms" theory. It does not take a genius to see what is happening here and what are the issues involved.

Kindly dont disrespect our intelligence. Please.

Again rhetoric . For the record i did't disrespect no ones's intelligence.
But simply asking ... Arent you just out from your ban due to your IEDs in nuke dhaga ??
why do you you want to muddle up arguments in this thread also ?

Dear lilo-ji, thanks for the reminder, I should not fall for flame baits. I do tend to fall for the same tactics of people first making statements like "you appear to be confused" and using words like "rhetoric" to talk about others posts then gently complaining to admins "I did not disrespect others intelligence" when others respond while mixing a barb about IEDs.

However on the topic here (sorry to distract you from discussing me) pretty much every one else seems to have got the sheer absurdity of "selling cheap fuel" to Pakistani's quite clearly. I really think its fairly obvious. I dont know quite understand how to explain it further.

Probably my failing. Cheerio toot toot.

[Rajdeep]

Meanwhile in the land of the momin and the last citadel of the religion of peace

5 Days ago - Pakistani student Shayan Anique Akhtar sets world record in MPC program

Pakistani student, Shayan Anique Akhtar, has set a world record in Microsoft Professional Certificate programme by achieving 998 marks out of a total of 1000.

Today - Shayan Anique, Self Proclaimed World Record Holder, Turns out to be a Fraud

Microsoft officials also maintained that Microsoft doesn’t keep track of age for its certified professionals anymore. Hence there’s no point of claiming being youngest or oldest certified professional.
When we asked from Shayan about the same, he said that Microsoft could be lying to ProPakistani, and that he was indeed invited by Bill Gates for which he is visiting US in December 2012. He said he could show us the email invitation as well.

It merits mentioning here that Punjab government was considering to honor Shayan by throwing a ceremony which of course isn’t happening now.

It maybe recalled that Ammar Afzal, a student from Okara too, was involved in such kind of fraud as well. He had claimed similar kind of records in various certifications, which were later found out to be fake.

Links are not halal to be posted.

[Lilo]

Sanku ji
Yes its a barb, because your rhetoric is an IED.
Many of your past posts on nuke dhaga ARE full of rhetoric - i.e appealing to emotions
and yes your past actions are held against you in this case ..because you are doing the same again.
So i cant judge what you have written here divorced from that past.
Well, thats me , about you.

Finally, i dont know about others but i for one am not convinced that selling "Cheap oil" (whatever that means?) to pakis is some sort of sellout.
i initially genuinely thought that you have confused "cheap oil" with "actually selling cheap petro outputs below prevailing market rates determined @ the refinery" - and that you have not factored transport costs....
Now i know you were not and were knowingly making an emotional argument.
Well.. iam sorry i tried. But cheerio back at you.

[Altair]

Time for sooyi-side attack on dhaaga..
AoA!
kaaaaabbbbboooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Is this heaven? Does not look like it
where are my virgins??

[brat]

AoA
Ib4TL

[KJo]

America bashing Pakistan to please India

[jamwal]

998 in Microsoft exams is no big deal. YOu need 850 just to pass. HOw dumb can these Pakis can be ??

[abhijitm]

Finally, i dont know about others but i for one am not convinced that selling "Cheap oil" (whatever that means?) to pakis is some sort of sellout.

Why should India sell essential commodities to pakis who in return send terrorists to kill Indians? Just for a few $$?

Looks like GoI is in a serious game of bailing out pak economy or at least helping in that cause. Apart of extending any kind of help to pakis, which is highly intolerable, we are continuing a vicious cycle of terror attack, no talk, talk, compromise, accommodation, generosity and finally another terror attack. It seems we have reached the 'generosity' point here...

[chaanakya]

Meeting 72 Houris soon.

[SBajwa]

When?

[abhijitm]

America bashing Pakistan to please India

Mumbai incident taking place in November 2008 is a case in point. 3 ½ years have elapsed, but Indian leaders backed by US leaders have not forgotten it and they continue to play it to grill Pakistan

He is dead wrong. Our PM, NSA and WKKs have already not only forgiven them but forgotten the "mere incident of the past".

live long and prosper.

[chaanakya]

When?

Ohh it already met, only matter of locking up

[Lilo]

Finally, i dont know about others but i for one am not convinced that selling "Cheap oil" (whatever that means?) to pakis is some sort of sellout.

Why should India sell essential commodities to pakis who in return send terrorists to kill Indians? Just for a few $$?

abhijitji,
"Essential commodities" tag generally implies subsidized pricing in Indian context. I repeat, we are not going to sell at subsidized prices - nothing related to any subsidy has ever been mentioned in the news reports connected to this development.

I hope it wont be a few dollars - if the figures of 50 million POL export to pakis from india ever come to pass, it represents a bonanza ... indirectly funded by 3.5 friends of pakis, while lessening our petroleum import burden - and FOREX outflow.

Basically india imported 85 billion $ of essentially raw crude and exported 32 billion $ of refined petroleum products (after satisfying internal demand) in 2011. These exports act as a cushion to the inevitable outflow of Forex due to the large and rapidly increasing internal demand for crude imports. If our exports of refined products dont keep pace, we will be increasingly pressed on the current account deficit front and rupee will increasingly come under pressure from internal petro demand.

My belief is that 50 million POL represented by pakis is a huge market and India should use its comparitive advantage of being located beside the paki conurbation near NCR to ramp up exports from that hub ... at commercial terms .
Increasing exports of our refined petro products is imperitive to balance pressure from our internal demand.