Let us Understand the Chinese - II

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Vivasvat » 24 Jun 2020 02:18

Why Are There NO BIRDS in China?



Comment on the video:
You wouldn't even know if aliens landed in China, you would only find some weird bones

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby RaviB » 24 Jun 2020 15:56

Thank you Suraj ji, I learned a lot from your posts.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby ricky_v » 25 Jun 2020 09:57

<racist post deleted>
Last edited by nachiket on 26 Jun 2020 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: deleting racist post

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Mollick.R » 25 Jun 2020 15:59

Dear Mods,
currently at least 4-5 threads are concurrently running on China or Related to China

1. India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020
2. Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
3. Let us Understand the Chinese - II
4. Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

If forum software allows, can we merge a few threads ??? I think Sl. No 3 & 4 are best suitable for merger.

Multiple threads creates confusion & makes it difficult to search months later when you are looking for specific post by a particular handle.

Please consider.
TIA

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Rony » 25 Jun 2020 19:24

China Cracks Down on Indian Spirituality, Calls It “Full of Brainwashing”

Not coincidentally, border tensions with India are accompanied by a renewed campaign against Indian religious and spiritual movements active in China.

Among the targeted groups are followers of Osho Rajneesh (1931–1990). It is alleged that, “part of Rajneesh’s sexual theories made their way to China, where they were welcomed by those who engaged in illegal activities such as group prostitution.” In fact, Chinese authorities already cracked down on Osho devotees in 2010 in Fujian and in 2012 in Guangdong.

The main concern of CCP anti-cultists seem now to be the Oneness University and O&O Academy, operated by the Oneness Movement, headquartered in Varadaiahpalem, Andhra Pradesh, India, and not to be confused with the unrelated Oneness Center based in New York. The Oneness Movement was founded in 1984 by Vijay Kumar, known as Sri Bhagavan, and his wife Srimati Padmavati, known as Sri Amma. Bhagavan and Amma are regarded by their followers as two halves of the same being, known as Sri Amma Bhagavan. Confronted with health issues and demanding controversies with Indian tax authorities, Sri Bhagavan handed over in 2019 most of the Oneness Movement organizations to his son Krishnaji (N.K.V. Krishna) and to Krishnaji’s wife, Preetha Ji.

The spirituality of the Oneness Movement is introduced as non-sectarian and ecumenical. Scholars regard it as a combination of traditional Hindu and New Age elements. It has been comparatively successful in China, and has operated a Oneness University in Beijing for several years. The Oneness Movement is now the most visible Indian spiritual movement in China. CCP-related sources claim that “a team composed of more than a dozen team organizers [and] some 200 lecturers and volunteers” is at work to recruit Chinese to seminars held both in China and India. Reportedly, more than 10,000 went to India for Oneness spiritual training. In Beijing, training is offered four times each month (now online only due to the COVID-19 epidemic). In one case, the course was sold out in two days, and parallel courses are offered in another five Chinese cities.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby arshyam » 25 Jun 2020 19:34

Mollick.R wrote:Dear Mods,
currently at least 4-5 threads are concurrently running on China or Related to China

1. India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020
2. Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
3. Let us Understand the Chinese - II
4. Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

If forum software allows, can we merge a few threads ??? I think Sl. No 3 & 4 are best suitable for merger.

Multiple threads creates confusion & makes it difficult to search months later when you are looking for specific post by a particular handle.

Please consider.
TIA

The last one can be locked, as it was a topical thread in response to some fanciful Chinese claims about their military's ability to reach Delhi in 24 hours or something of the sort.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby darshan » 25 Jun 2020 19:36

I suggest that people use hashtags for tagging their posts spanning Multiple topics and stay within two threads. Good posts can be moved to appropriate threads at a later point.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Aldonkar » 25 Jun 2020 22:03

Vivasvat wrote:Why Are There NO BIRDS in China?


Comment on the video:
You wouldn't even know if aliens landed in China, you would only find some weird bones


I used to work for a Japanese Telecom manufacturer and visited Japan many tiles. The Japanese used to joke " the Japanese eat everything in the sea, and the Chinese eat everything on the land." This was in the 1990's.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 25 Jun 2020 22:05

Rony wrote:China Cracks Down on Indian Spirituality, Calls It “Full of Brainwashing”

Not coincidentally, border tensions with India are accompanied by a renewed campaign against Indian religious and spiritual movements active in China.

Not really a problem from an Indian perspective. Chinese history is replete with cases of the state attacking itself or its own people over imaginary bogeymen. E.g. Cultural Revolution.

This is a fundamental weakness of their culture and psyche - these a streak of paranoia that has characterized every single dynastic regime and ultimately driven its own implosion.

For a nation that prides itself on its long history of supposedly continuous dynastic rule, the reality is that their history is in fact round after round of incredibly self-destructive revolt and genocide. Their own internal tiffs account for half the top 10 worst wars by death tolls:
List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby chaitanya » 25 Jun 2020 22:42

Hi Suraj and RaviB,

Thanks so much for your posts, they have been very informative. I'd like to add one thing about the Mandate of Heaven - if I recall correctly from my history classes,

Not really a problem from an Indian perspective. Chinese history is replete with cases of the state attacking itself or its own people over imaginary bogeymen. E.g. Cultural Revolution.

This is a fundamental weakness of their culture and psyche - these a streak of paranoia that has characterized every single dynastic regime and ultimately driven its own implosion.


This is actually a feature of the Mandate of Heaven - that the new dynasty that gains control of the mandate has the absolute right to change culture. I remember reading that in many cases a transition of power coincided with significant changes in language, culture, etc. and I always took this to be the reason the cultural revolution took place.

I think the Chinese really think that this is just what one does when one takes over and not a weakness or a sign of paranoia... eliminate any traces of the past and there will be no revolt in the future.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 25 Jun 2020 23:38

Yes there's definitely a motive of every Mandate of Heaven holder to preserve and assert their rule. The reason why I called it paranoia, is that they could be more Indic about it - absorb influence and focus on longevity, being aware that society evolves over time and a long lasting regime would be aware of how to manage that evolution while retaining dominant power.

But no, their reflexive reaction has always been to call out the cavalry upon themselves. Their entire history is full of it, they learn it, and seemingly learn it so well as to make it a self fulfilling prophecy again and again. There's nothing in their culture and historical understanding teaching them 'well folks, just getting super paranoid and killing off 5-20% of the country in the next revolt is probably a really dumb idea. Any better ones ?'

There's a degree of built in lack of tolerance and flexibility within their system where a right to rule is being repeatedly misinterpreted as 'right-to-rule-a-particilar-way', that an outsider must understand well and use to their advantage, knowing it gives them the ability to make the Chinese react in particular predictable ways. RaviB also covered this at great length in his excellent posts - the Chinese aren't being immoral/adharmic blah blah. They're just being themselves and you need to put aside your emotions and interpret them accordingly...

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby VikramS » 26 Jun 2020 03:58

Vivasvat wrote:Why Are There NO BIRDS in China?



Comment on the video:
You wouldn't even know if aliens landed in China, you would only find some weird bones


So sad to watch

CCP has converted that country into soul-less people.

Thank God Taiwan and Hong Kong have preserved their heritage.

High time the mainland Chinese realize the cost of being a captive to the CCP.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Tuan » 26 Jun 2020 04:01

China's “wolf warrior diplomacy” might face setbacks and perhaps even backfire if it is more aggressive. In that case, it runs the risk of becoming like American foreign policy from the past 20 years: brawny but ineffective, argues Kagusthan Ariaratnam.

A New Era for China’s “Wolf Warrior Diplomacy”
https://thegeopolitics.com/a-new-era-fo ... diplomacy/

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby mahadevbhu » 26 Jun 2020 04:56

taike0886
2d
This is an interesting theory, though my experience living in Taiwan and working with many people in China is that Confucian ideals lend themselves on the business side to some very conservative and very negative business practices, such as nepotism, corruption, never questioning superiors or the established way of doing things, cutting every possible corner to achieve advantages over your competitors, sabotaging your competitors, treating workers like slaves (and women worse), disregarding the truth and outright lying to people's faces when it's convenient and just a general overall environment that is hostile to good business practices and forget innovation. Innovation is what people with 美國時間 (American time) do, and ethics, principles and morality are things that only non-Chinese waste their time with.

This idea that hard work is ingrained in the Confucian mindset seems to me a total myth too. You work smart, not hard. 狼文化 (wolf culture) entails using all of the aforementioned methods and more to work the least amount possible for the greatest possible benefit.

Finally, Confucian culture lends itself to an authoritarian way of living that is hierarchical, repressive and disregards universally accepted standards of human rights. Ultimately, greed is what drives everything, and no one questions this or examines it.

Actually, Confucianism talks about the negative effects of greed and materialism, but there are nevertheless temples with gods that you specifically pray to for wealth and money, there are commercials on TV with this god running around throwing gold coins in the air, and a common blessing during the holidays is to wish people wealth. People even name their children after money and wealth. Greed is universally accepted as good in China and drives practically every interaction.

Maybe it's like how conservative Christians in the west pay lip service to "family values" but then practice the opposite, but no one in China is paying lip service to eschewing materialism and greed for spiritual enlightenment.

From Reddit.com

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Rishirishi » 26 Jun 2020 05:29

Chinas one child policy and its soldiers.

In a typical Chinease household with one child, both parents are also single children. So the child will be the single one for both parents and 4 grand parents. Imagine 6 adults pampering the same child. This has left some undesired Psychological effects on the children. Extreme pampering, extreme pressure at school and extreme burden to care for so many people.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 26 Jun 2020 05:46

That most likely came from a westerner - probably a white American male. Such views are problematic for the fact that they are not first order impressions but second order ones. If we want to learn something, learn from them directly, not someone else's view of them. The Chinese have a view for middle aged westerners who think they know all about China from their time there - wise old uncles. When I see posts like the above, I see a continuous emission of a narrator's own biases more than any useful understanding of the entities in question. Not a criticism of the BRF poster himself of course, since he didn't write that.

We need to cultivate our understanding independently, with first order contact with them, building an understanding devoid of our own emotions or any efforts to portray them through a prism of how we think they should behave. The explanation of Taiwanese in the previous page for example, focuses on interaction with them directly and their own expressions about the topic in question. It doesn't seek to editorialize or make a judgment of them one way or the other. Such things can follow later, but first, an unemotional narration of the basic details is necessary.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Vivasvat » 26 Jun 2020 05:56

.Xhina is spreading it's tentacles in Fiji too...

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby NRao » 26 Jun 2020 10:48

China. Par for the course. Dogs bark, lions roar, China plays backhand.

Shaoquett Moselmane: Australian lawmaker's office raided 'amid China probe'

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 26 Jun 2020 10:58

Mod Note

This is NOT a thread to post any random China news.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby chola » 26 Jun 2020 14:38

Check out their Walmart. The chini propensity to eat weird sh1t carries over to Western chains there too.


So it's not just the wet markets with all the animal viruses.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Jun 2020 23:43

^^^I’ve had alligator meat in south Florida northwest of Miami at a roadside BBQ stand. Fried of course. It’s tough meat and chewy, but resembles chicken breast in color and texture. Nothing to write home about. Crocodile meat would probably be the same.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Vivasvat » 27 Jun 2020 03:15

Deleted
Last edited by Suraj on 27 Jun 2020 03:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: This is NOT a general China news/threat tracking thread.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Rishirishi » 27 Jun 2020 05:03

Suraj wrote:That most likely came from a westerner - probably a white American male. Such views are problematic for the fact that they are not first order impressions but second order ones. If we want to learn something, learn from them directly, not someone else's view of them. The Chinese have a view for middle aged westerners who think they know all about China from their time there - wise old uncles. When I see posts like the above, I see a continuous emission of a narrator's own biases more than any useful understanding of the entities in question. Not a criticism of the BRF poster himself of course, since he didn't write that.

We need to cultivate our understanding independently, with first order contact with them, building an understanding devoid of our own emotions or any efforts to portray them through a prism of how we think they should behave. The explanation of Taiwanese in the previous page for example, focuses on interaction with them directly and their own expressions about the topic in question. It doesn't seek to editorialize or make a judgment of them one way or the other. Such things can follow later, but first, an unemotional narration of the basic details is necessary.


I have been to China at least a dozen times and conversed with many in China. What i can tell about them.

1
They are lead to believe of the superiority of the Chinease. They have seen how China has advanced and are very impressed by their own results AND government. They believe their advancements are due to hard work and smart brain.


2
They talk of a great future of China. In most democracies it would mean wealth to the individual. That also is true for the Chinese. But in addition they believe China will one day be the deciding factor and control the world.

3
Their media regularly show slums and problems in India. This is possibly to justify the authoritarian rules superiority to the democracy.

4
Unlike our western neighbours, the Chinease are VERY practical. In reality they just want a good life. They are kind people, who believe in hard work. Far more trustworthy in Business then for example Indians. Please do not hate me for saying this. I am just trying to give an honest account.

5
The people in power are very corrupt and want to hold on to power. They do this by growth. No growth and the government will fall.

6
THE CHINEASE DO NOT HAVE ANY INTENTION OF PEACEFUL CO-EXISTANCE WITH INDIA. INDIA IS A RIVAL AND STANDS IN THE WAY FOR THEIR DREAM OF GLOBAL SUPREMACY. PARTICULARLY THEY FEAR BEING OVERTAKEN AS THE FACTORY OF THE WORLD.

7
Just like it is not acceptable for Indians to loose against Pakistan, Chinese will not tolerate loss from India. Any loss will shatter their self image of them being superior.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Mollick.R » 27 Jun 2020 13:19

Lil bit old, but still though.

Jokes apart, it may be the effect of 50 million unmarried men in their country.

Excessive masturbation is hurting China’s military
By Lia Eustachewich, August 25, 2017 | 10:17am

The Chinese military says excessive masturbation and too many video games are among the reasons its physical-test failure rates have reached an “alarming high.”

The People’s Liberation Army is now dishing out advice after one city saw more than half its candidates — 56.9 percent — fail their physicals, according to the BBC.

PLA found that 8 percent of candidates failed because of abnormalities found in their scrotum from sitting too much. Another 25 percent flunked because of blood and urine tests.

It recommended that candidates follow 10 basic principles, including exercising more, cutting out fizzy drinks and booze, limiting computer games and masturbation, not getting a tattoo and drinking clean water.
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New York Post Article Link

https://nypost.com/2017/08/25/excessive-masturbation-is-hurting-chinas-military/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3NUJQMSpBwcDT5NjbL25hUcHLlaHCh_Qlxq6wlIsFgdVS0Nko6wfPbmZ8

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby chola » 27 Jun 2020 16:08

Mort Walker wrote:^^^I’ve had alligator meat in south Florida northwest of Miami at a roadside BBQ stand. Fried of course. It’s tough meat and chewy, but resembles chicken breast in color and texture. Nothing to write home about. Crocodile meat would probably be the same.


Yes, I know about gator meat down South. But croc, shark, frog and turtle (among others) is not a thing at Amreeki Walmarts!

All I'm saying is even if they go first-world affluence and no longer have the wet markets, they will still eat all kinds of bizarre potentially virus-infested animals supplied from modern supermarkets.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Mollick.R » 02 Jul 2020 21:16

China's biggest gold fraud, 4% of its reserves may be fake: Report
IANS|Last Updated: Jul 02, 2020, 04.33 PM IST

China is at the centre of the discovery of what may be one of the biggest gold counterfeiting scandal in recent history.

According to a report in Zero Hedge, not only does it involve China, but it emerges from a city that has become synonymous for all that is scandalous about China: Wuhan.

The 83 tons of purportedly pure gold stored in creditors' coffers by Kingold as of June, backing the 16 billion yuan of loans, would be equivalent to 22 per cent of China's annual gold production and 4.2 per cent of the state gold reserve as of 2019.

In short, more than 4 per cent of China's official gold reserves may be fake. And this assume that no other Chinese gold producers and jewelry makers are engaging in similar fraud, the report said
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As for the gold, several billion in gold bars never existed and yet resulted in a cascade of subsequent cash flow events allowing tens of billions in funds to be released, "benefiting" not only founder Jia, but China's broader economy.

Which is terrifying because whereas just after the financial crisis China was engaged in building ghost cities, everyone knew these were a symbol of demand that would never materialize, even if the cities themselves did exist. However, it now appears that a major part of China's subsequent economic boom has been predicated on tens of billions in hard assets -- such as gold -- which simply do not exist, the report said.

Kingold is certainly not the only Chinese company engaging in such blatant fraud, and the consequences are clear: once Chinese creditors or insurance companies start testing the "collateral" they have received in exchange for tens of billions in loans and discover, to their "amazement", that instead of gold they are proud owners of tungsten or copper,
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more than a dozen Chinese financial institutions, mainly trust companies (i.e., shadow banks) loaned 20 billion yuan ($2.8 billion) over the past five years to Wuhan Kingold Jewelry with pure gold as collateral and insurance policies to cover any losses. There was just one problem: the "gold" turned out to be gold-plated copper.


Full Report Here//Times of India Link.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/chinas-biggest-gold-fraud-4-of-its-reserves-may-be-fake-report/articleshow/76707339.cms

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby vimal » 06 Jul 2020 21:49

Why I left China for Good!

12 minute summary of the ground situation in China. As many posters have said on this forum China's image is essentially a lipstick on Pig.
Pathetic healthcare, no basic human rights and crumbling economic system that benefits only the cream of the society (read CCP lackeys).


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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby RaviB » 07 Jul 2020 17:57

--moved to the Understanding New China after 19th Congress thread because it doesn't fit here very well--
Last edited by RaviB on 08 Jul 2020 03:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 08 Jul 2020 02:24

For me, that data doesn't say much in the context of this thread. The first thought is 'so what ? financial jugglery is nothing new'.

What is of more interest is the very topic of this thread - understanding them. Given the debt situation they face, how would they be inclined to respond ? With complete honesty, acceptance of failings and willingness to swallow their pride and reconsider a different approach ? Or have a few scapegoats shot, bury all other details and stonewall further conversation until they think the problems no longer in focus ?

Of course the answer would be intuitive, but greater detail would like in what exactly they are inclined to do when faced with a major economic roadblock in the past ? Is there a pattern of behavior in that ? They're predictable in the manner in which they make a mess of things.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby RaviB » 08 Jul 2020 02:51

Suraj wrote:For me, that data doesn't say much in the context of this thread. The first thought is 'so what ? financial jugglery is nothing new'.

What is of more interest is the very topic of this thread - understanding them. Given the debt situation they face, how would they be inclined to respond ? With complete honesty, acceptance of failings and willingness to swallow their pride and reconsider a different approach ? Or have a few scapegoats shot, bury all other details and stonewall further conversation until they think the problems no longer in focus ?

Of course the answer would be intuitive, but greater detail would like in what exactly they are inclined to do when faced with a major economic roadblock in the past ? Is there a pattern of behavior in that ? They're predictable in the manner in which they make a mess of things.


It's well known that they're fudging their numbers but here it turns out that even they might not know what the real number are. Everyone is fudging their numbers upwards, the provinces lie to the central government which then lies to the IMF. But that very opacity means that they probably don't know how badly off they are. The debt to gdp ratio is a very serious sign. And this was 2016. They haven't stopped lying, they've been borrowing and spending like crazy so the "ghost economy" has also kept growing. It might be another USSR like overnight bankruptcy in the making

In the context of this thread, the sheer dishonesty from top to bottom means that lies will be chosen over accountability by everyone, so no one is actually going to act to rectify the situation until it's too late. There's nobody to say the emperor has no clothes. The emperor isn't going to admit it either.

During the Great Leap Forward, every commune kept exceeding their quotas of metal production. But of course they were making up some numbers and melting agricultural tools to increase their production. That kind of lying takes on a life of its own. And when people started dying, nobody wanted to admit it.

Edit Suraj ji, I see your point, that post doesn't fit here. I moved it to a different thread.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Suraj » 08 Jul 2020 03:25

Thanks for getting the point. There's a China economy thread for such posts. It doesn't 'tell us much'. It's more useful to understand the manner in which they react given prior precent of such things. It makes their behavior more easier to predict . They are good at organizing and marshalling resources. But they're also very poor at maintaining a societal mechanism of structural accountability, which makes them prone to repeatedly make the same mistakes that cause problems to grow out of control instead of being honestly apprised and handled earlier .

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby M_Joshi » 22 Jul 2020 16:25

Posting from Reddit's Geopolitics thread

The URL links to a news article in Korean about a speech given by top Chinese military strategist Dai Xu. He is like the Chinese version of Bolton (was it John?.. anyways..).

This is the original article : https://news.joins.com/article/23828567

I have taken the liberty to translate it to English


China has been under unprecedented levels of attack on all sides by the US, giving rise to a sense of poignant regret that China has been misunderstanding the US. A speech regarding this issue given by Professor Dai Xu from China’s National Defense University has recently been gaining much attention from Chinese media.

Dai Xu is one of China’s most representative military hawk’s; he was chosen as one of the most influential figures in 2010 and is also widely known for being“one of Henan’s (Xu’s hometown) top three brains”.

While the United States is reviewing a travel ban on all CCP members and their family members to the US, Dai Xu’s speech on “four things that China overlooked and ten new perceptions about the United States” has been a popular topic among the Chinese.

The first thing Dai Xu claims that China has overlooked about the US is that China didn’t realize that America had so much resentment against them. According to Xu, President Donald Trump has not even a speck of goodwill for China and although he has been calling them a series of names including “trade terrorist”, “invader of the global economy”, “cheaters”, “thieves”, “rule breakers”, to the Chinese, America’s grudge feels like a punch out of the blue. While America says it will not idly stand by and ignore all of China’s evildoings, Xu adds that America is using all its resources to “demonize” China.

The second is that China did not know America’s tactics would be so ‘brutal’. Dai Xu said that China’s top government officials and professionals, himself included, did not expect an all-out attack from the US, without any wiggle room to even take a breath. US-China relations have been woven tightly over a long period of time which is why China thought that unless the US was out of their mind, it would not impose 20 billion tariffs on Chinese goods. However, America’s strong measures have taken China by surprise, highly exceeding its expectations.

The third is that while China is being beaten down by the US, not a single country has neither stood up at their defense nor even expressed a drop of sympathy. While numerous countries are against America’s trade measures, none of them have spoken out against the US or stood next to China, the greatest victim of the trade war. Xu said that although China has been assisting many countries around the world and these countries have benefited much from China, none of them have stood up for them when most needed.

The fourth is that to fight China, America has built a unified front. Republicans and Democrats disagree over any and every issue except on that of measures and policies on China; on these they are completely united. What is most surprising, Xu says, is that no member of the US Congress has spoken in favor of China and because of these four issues, it is time for China to see the US from a different perspective.

    10 new perspectives about the US according to Dai Xu
    The US is a ‘real tiger’ not a ‘paper tiger’
    Must not assume that the US will continue making mistakes
    The US puts profit before ideology and value
    Never say “We are number one”, “we are better” before the US
    The US is indifferent about committing crimes against others
    Must admit that the US is the world’s “big boss”
    Do not mention “sharing information” before the US
    The US is a master strategist: Do not become their enemy
    Must not hope that the US elections will change the US’ national strategy
    Must not naively think about fighting the US until the end

First, China must realize that the US is a ‘real tiger’ that devours, not a ‘paper tiger’. American politicians are neither gentlemen nor philanthropists but workers who are devoted and prepared to do anything for their nation and its voters.

Second, China must not assume that the US will continue making mistakes. The US is a country that will turn its national strategy around 180 degrees if it deems its strategy to be wrong. The US can change masks quicker than you turn a page in a book.

Third, The US puts profit before ideology and value. When making money from the Americans, China must be careful and quickly catch onto changes to their facial expressions. Make sure that the money is flowing both ways and not unilaterally toward China.

Fourth, never say “we are number one”, “we are better” before the US. Even if the thought crosses your mind, take it as a sign to take a step down and be more modest. :rotfl:

Fifth, the US is indifferent about committing crimes against others. Although the US has many allies, it will not go as far as to sacrifice its core interests just to maintain the alliance friendly.

Sixth, must admit that the US is the world’s “big boss”. Although it is difficult to accept, it is the reality. The US controls vast amounts of resources, much greater than those China does. The best possible scenario for China is to digest and absorb US technology. And even after absorbing American technology, China must not go around blabbering that it is their “innovation”.

Seventh, do not mention “sharing information” in front of the US. Intellectual property is very important in the US. If you ask to share this technology you will be stamped as a “thief”.

Eighth, the US is a master strategist. Things will become very difficult once you become an enemy of the US. America’s war against terrorism shows us that the US can and will pool all its resources together, follow you to the very end of the earth and then kill you.

Ninth, do not hope that the US elections will change the US’ national strategy. The “Make America Great Again” strategy will not change even if the president does.

Tenth, do not be naïve and think you will be able to fight the US until the end. Every action made by the US has a butterfly effect. The US has many allies and many partnerships around the globe. If the US imposes a 30 billion dollar tariff on China, this will have a ripple effect and blow up into 60 billion, even 90 billion dollars’ worth of effects.

This is the reason why the US is so strong. Dai Xu says, if China wants to take on the US, it must approach with reason and not rage, wisely and courageously.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby Mollick.R » 03 Aug 2020 19:36

X-Post

'Clean up this mess': The Chinese thinkers behind Xi Jinping’s increasingly hardening line
New York Times Last Updated: Aug 03, 2020, 11:08 AM IST

HONG KONG: When Tian Feilong first arrived in Hong Kong as demands for free elections were on the rise, he said he felt sympathetic toward a society that seemed to reflect the liberal political ideas he had studied as a graduate student in Beijing.
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He became an ardent critic of the demonstrations, and six years later he is a staunch defender of the sweeping national security law that China has imposed on the former British colony.

Tian has joined a tide of Chinese scholars who have turned against Western-inspired ideas that once flowed in China’s universities, instead promoting the proudly authoritarian worldview ascendant under Xi Jinping, the Communist Party leader. This cadre of Chinese intellectuals serve as champions, even official advisers, defending and honing the party’s hardening policies, including the rollout of the security law in Hong Kong.
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“Back when I was weak, I had to totally play by your rules. Now I’m strong and have confidence, so why can’t I lay down my own rules and values and ideas?” Tian, 37, said in an interview, explaining the prevailing outlook in China. Witnessing the tumult as a visiting scholar in Hong Kong in 2014, Tian said, he “rethought the relationship between individual freedom and state authority.”

“Hong Kong is, after all, China’s Hong Kong,” he said. “It’s up to the Communist Party to clean up this mess.”

Read Full Article Here//
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/clean-up-this-mess-the-chinese-thinkers-behind-xi-jinpings-increasingly-hardening-line/articleshow/77326164.cms

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby RaviB » 04 Aug 2020 21:40

Cross posted from Neutering China thread

Some views from Chinese media

I hope this is useful and relevant to this thread. I have been looking through Chini internet because it is important to understand what they are thinking about India right now. I have translated some excerpts and added links to the relevant posts. Generally, the views here are from Chinis who are close to or sympathetic to SHA. This website is like a mix of quora and msn, some articles are reproduced from elsewhere and others are answers from "selected experts". Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere or if this exercise is useless, as this takes quite some time.

I am an ordinary Chinese. In my eyes, what kind of country is India? Think of the introduction in the geography textbook of the middle school. India is one of the four ancient civilizations. It is a multi-ethnic country with a strict caste system. It likes to eat curry. The train is full of people. Although the Ganges is floating with dead bodies, Indians still use holy water for bathing. I have a special respect for cows. When I was in school, I thought Indian cows are the happiest cows in the world. They are regarded as sacred cows and can eat anything in the market. How cool! Indian Bollywood movies are famous, singing and dancing whenever they disagree. Indian software programming is particularly good. Many top programmers work in Silicon Valley. At the same time, the top executives of top technology companies in the United States are mostly of Indian descent. This is very similar to India being the most populous democratic country and the Indian elite being educated by British elites.

India was first ruled by the East India Company, and later taken over by the British government, as a colony. Later, the British opened many British schools in India. The Indians received higher education and enlightened their thinking, which became the main force against British rule. Mahatma Gandhi is one of them. Due to this constant resistance, India became a nation.

Recently, India was involved on the Sino-Indian border. Fierce physical clashes broke out between China and India. It is said that 3 people were killed or injured in India, 17 people died of freezing, and China also suffered casualties. But some people say that we
already fought in the past, why are we now going back to the negotiating table? Because peace negotiations are best for us. India is a multi-ethnic religious country, and it is difficult to unite internally. If there is a force that can promote internal unity, it is nationalism. It is extremely detrimental to us.

India’s population is second only to China and is a rapidly rising country. Indians look at China from Asia, just like Chinese look at the United States from the world. For the rise of China, we must establish a good relationship with India. If we do not do well in neighboring relations, friction will easily arise and we will not be able to settle for major events. India is still an agricultural society, its degree of openness is not high, and its connection with the world is not as good as that of China. Economic sanctions on India will not have much effect, and they will also lead to competition between between the two and only a third party [USA is meant here] will benefit

Chairman Mao once stood up to India. Therefore, India is hostile to China. If we fight India now, although we have an absolute advantage in military strength, it is easy to push India towards the United States. The US-Japan-India alliance is very bad for China. But in that way, India is dependent on the United States and loses its independent power. That is also what India does not want. Therefore, it is the best policy to stop at the fierce physical conflict and return to the negotiating table.

Chairman Mao said that it is the best option in international politics to have many people who support oneself and few people who oppose oneself.
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/149063978


Another view, which is more of a warmongering one

We must never look at India by Chinese standards. In fact, from the eyes of ordinary Chinese people, India cannot be called a country.

Modi is unable to control the frontline military leaders, something which is unimaginable in China. In fact, before the new China, the old China was the same as India. There were even warlords who challenged the Soviet Union, causing the Soviet Union and China to sever diplomatic relations. This is the general state of the third world countries. It is not because we say that China is a third world country, so we cannot assume that the third world countries are not the same as us.

Therefore, India does not have a mature and unified strategy for dealing with China. The Indian army provoked China. It is not that India wants to divert attention from its problems. Who will divert attention by opposing a powerful country? But now the United States is in a state of desperation and urgently needs to shift attention from its internal problems to elsewhere.

Therefore, this incident is not to help India to divert attention from domestic problems, but to help the United States divert attention from its domestic problems.
...

That is to say, some people in the Indian military took advantage of the Chinese and used the lives of lower class [subaltern / oppressed] officers and soldiers to create conflicts. Therefore, China demanded severe punishment for the perpetrators. Although Modi was extremely dissatisfied with the perpetrators, because it was an act of betraying India's national interests, he was unable to punish him, and he could not even name them.

This [fighting each other] is the sorrow of the post-colonial countries. This is the state of the world.

If we want to live happily, we must unite and fight these bad boys [colonisers] to the end.

Update on June 27

The elites of India are all cultivated by the Anglos, and they must be full of the thinking of looters. Their world view is not in support of colonialism, but it is diseased by colonialism.

As far as I know, the small land grabs of the Indian army on the Sino-Indian border have never stopped. It's like a few flies, if you don't pay attention, they buzz up. So we must always be prepared to prevent them from taking advantage. If it doesn't work, hit them hard.
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/148785294


The standard tropes are all here, India is always seen from the perspective of US-China or West-East rivalry, also a country split along class lines. There are some other articles like this one, which I'll summarise:

Why can't China go to war with India? https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/159410594
- Compares the current situation of India facing China to 1969 situation of China facing USSR
- There is great asymmetry in CNP between China and India (economy size, production, locally produced advanced weapons vs. imported ones, etc.) similar to the asymmetry between China and USSR back in 1969
Since India was crushed by China in 1962, it has suffered from severe "inferiority complex". They have nightmares about the PLA diving down from the southern foot of the Himalayas. From the perspective of India, the capital New Delhi is only 600 Km from the Sino-Indian border, and the nearest tens of millions of core city (Chengdu) from the Indian border that wants to threaten China is 2500 kilometers away (not true). With a population of 1.4 billion in India, nearly half of the population is located in Uttar Pradesh on the border between China and India. In terms of location and overall strength, China is like a giant dragon entwining the north. This sense of deterrence makes Indians feel nervous every day. Due to the above factors, India has long been trapped in "victimization delusion". Never mind that China is commited to peaceful coexistence and common development, India does not believe in their hearts. When China does not regard them as opponents, they feel that China despises them and does not respect India. When a conflict occurs and China sends troops to the border, they think that China is threatening their national security.

why can’t China teach India another lesson like in 1962, and let them be honest for decades?
- 1962 offered a special window during the Cuban missile crisis, this is missing now. [I think they thought of US elections as a window]
- In 1962, China was surrounded by enemies on all sides, and a victory inspite of that ensured that China became a leader of the third world. [I think this is the situation for India now, much more than territory, it is our reputation that we win or lose. Which is why even a restoration of territorial status quo ante by tortuous negotiation will still be a loss for us

- If China wins, it will suffer from Indian refugees streaming into southwest China and if it loses it will be a big loss in front of international public opinion. China would have started a fight without any benefits accruing from it.


India is full of domestic conflicts. In order to win over Hindus, Modi’s suppression of domestic Muslims has almost reached a critical point. In addition, the eastern and northern states have been clamoring for independence, and the different languages ​​between the northern and southern states make them unable to communicate to each other. The problem, combined with India’s gradual uncontrolled population growth, long-standing class conflicts, unfavorable epidemic prevention and control, and many other factors, it is easy to see that India is now a powder keg. [The author implies that since India will collapse on its own, China doesn't need to do anything]

Of course, as long as China can hold on to its broad development direction and does not appear to be aggressive, U.S. policies [of alliance building] will only annoy China, but they cannot fundamentally shake China’s policies. As an ancient civilization with the largest population in the world, China's road to rise does not necessarily have to be colonial and blood-sucking like the United States. As long as we work hard to adhere to the policy of self-development and do not make major mistakes, recovery [of world supremacy] is only a matter of time. India’s actions are indeed very annoying, but our goal has never been to defeat India or even the United States. Our goal is to achieve the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation!

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby chanakyaa » 13 Aug 2020 08:16

SMIC: Everything you need to know about China's answer to TSMC
China is planning on becoming self-reliant with its homegrown semiconductor fab.

It's an interesting time in the semiconductor industry. Intel announced that it is pushing its 7nm plans to 2022 or 2023 (losing further ground to AMD), Qualcomm just posted massive profits for Q2 2020, and NVIDA may end up buying Arm, the company that designs the core instruction set that's used in every phone.

There's another thread playing out on the other side of the world. In just over a month's time, Huawei will lose access to TSMC, the largest semiconductor foundry in the world. That's a big deal, because without TSMC, Huawei will not be able to manufacture chipsets for its phones. The Chinese phone manufacturer is now turning to Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) — a Shanghai-based foundry — as an alternative to TSMC, so let's take a closer look at SMIC and see where it fits in.
...

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby sum » 13 Aug 2020 11:49

Really admire the way the Chinese are marching on in the semiconductor domain despite all the denials.

Have no doubt that they will crack the puzzle sooner than later given all the means they employ to ensure their needs are met ( self reliance for thir own products). The Koreans are $*** scared about the Chinese currently and many of biggies in Korean cos are being actively poached by multiple Chinese co with outrageous salaries.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby hanumadu » 13 Aug 2020 11:56

What the Koreans, the Taiwanese, the Japanese and all other foundries do seems to be built on top of what the American, European and Japanese companies provide. China is probably at least 20 years away from catching up with the latest semi conductor manufacturing technology.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby sum » 13 Aug 2020 13:51

Absolutely. But they are showing a will and are slowly getting building blocks in place. The bulk of activity is still in older nodes and having mastery on that should suffice for national goals.

When a favourable regime comes in US, taps will open and the ramp up will be amazing at that time (.since everything was ready)

I would rather be on their position than India currently which has ~ 0 in terms of national IP or activity on large scale except giving our best brains away to American designs through their Indian ODCs

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby m_saini » 13 Aug 2020 15:20

^ And I wouldn't dismiss their efforts anyway. Time and again the chinese have shown themselves capable of innovating by hook or by crook. I still remember how surprised everyone, including CIA, were when they showed off their j20s.

The speed by which they churn out ships, their meteoric rise, their industrial base etc everything about them screams extraordinary. I wouldn't count their semi-conductor push dead just yet. They're trying, which is much more than anything that can be said for us.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese - II

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Aug 2020 12:12

https://www.ft.com/content/9000d2b0-460 ... 7fdb9416c8
Opinion US-China trade dispute
The decoupling of the US and China has only just begun

Business logic has been displaced by strategic rivalry
GIDEON RACHMAN, 08/17/2020

When a familiar and comfortable situation changes dramatically, the human instinct is to believe that things will soon get back to normal. The idea that life may have changed permanently is too unsettling to deal with. We are seeing this mentality with Covid-19. We are also witnessing it as business responds to the downward spiral in US-Chinese relations.
After 40 years of ever deeper economic integration between the US and China, it is hard to imagine a real severance of ties. Many executives believe that politicians in Washington and Beijing will patch up their differences when they realise the true implications of “decoupling” the world’s two largest economies. The hope is that a trade deal will stabilise things, even if it has to wait until after the US presidential election.
But that is too complacent. The reality is that decoupling has much further to go. It is already spreading beyond technology and into finance. In time, it will affect every large industry, from manufacturing to consumer goods. And all multinationals — even those based in Europe — will be affected, as they navigate disrupted supply chains and changes in American and Chinese law.
This process is being driven by a fundamental shift in the way both the US and China see their relationship. For the past four decades, business logic has prevailed over strategic rivalry. But we are in a new world in which political rivalry overrides economic incentives — even for a US president who prides himself on being a dealmaker. When Donald Trump was informed that his new order — forcing US companies to cut ties with WeChat, a Chinese messaging app — would hurt American sales in China, his response was, “whatever”.
......
Gautam


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