Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2012

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2012 18:10

Last page of previous thread.

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The following links are background material on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:

Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

Whither Pakistan ? Growing Instability and Implications for India: an IDSA e-Book, July 2010
http://idsa.in/book/WhitherPakistan

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://www.sdpi.org/publications/public ... 86-34.html#

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

Prof. Walter Russell Mead, "Pakistan's Failed National Strategy"
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -strategy/

"Pakistan Is", by Barry Bearak in New York Times Magazine, December 7, 2003.
Brings out succinctly various facets of Pakistani perfidy, obsession, fundamentalism etc.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... nted=print

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects, Stephen Tankel, April 2011
New America Foundation
http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica. ... _LeT_0.pdf

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

BEYOND MADRASAS: ASSESSING THE LINKS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND MILITANCY IN PAKISTAN
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... nthrop.pdf

Pakistani Military Officers' Links with Jihadist Organizations
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5587.htm

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

The Battle for Pakistan: Militancy and Conflict in Pakistan's Tribal Regions
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/ ... r_pakistan

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)

MISCELLANEOUS

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup
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Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

A perceptive blog on Pakistan: http://pak-watch.blogspot.com/

Declassified documents from US National Archives on Pakistan:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/pakistan.htm
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Admission of state sponsored terrorism by Pakistani authorities

see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

On 7th Nov in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.

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A Venn diagram, by Shiv, to illustrate the commonality and difference between "bad Taliban" and Jinnah's Pakistan.

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Why Did Pakistan's Spy Chief Make a Secret Trip to China?
Quote:

Pasha's China trip has been interpreted by some as a tacit act of defiance—a reminder to his American counterparts that the Pakistanis can always look east to their “all-weather” friend across the Himalayas rather than bend the knee to the will of the U.S.

But it also may be a sign of China's growing disquiet with Pakistan. Another top-ranking Pakistani military officer, Lt. Gen Wahid Arshad, had already conducted a considerable tour of China just weeks ago in a bid to improve ties. A few analysts have suggested that Pasha's trip — couched in vague terms about building a “broad-based strategic dialogue” — may have been less a visit and more of a summons.

Quote:

Chinese officials claimed the attacks in Kashgar were authored by the shadowy East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a jihadist organization of mostly ethnic Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority that comprises the majority in the far-western Chinese region of Xinjiang. China routinely invokes the specter of the terrorist threat when cracking down on dissent in the restive region. Yet disturbances there tend to be triggered more often by social discontent — many Uighurs chafe at state policies they deem discriminatory and marginalizing — than militant connivance. Pasha's presence in Beijing may mark Beijing's continued efforts to root out Uighur dissidents and sympathizers beyond China's borders, as it has already done in Kazakhstan.

Youtube video: Bilatakalluf with Tahif Gora: Tarek Fateh dissects with Pakjabi society and shows how its war-impotent Army loots the common Pakistani (Jan 13, 2012)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2012 18:11

Please post away.

Prasanna · Post by **Prasanna** » 24 Jul 2012 18:33

Bullet-proof cars became death traps in May 2012 operation

ISLAMABAD: A horrifying case of gross negligence and corruption has come to light, which not only cost at least 13 lives of Karachi policemen in the infamous Lyari operation, but also grievously damaged the government strategy to combat militancy in the troubled Karachi neighbourhood.

It has now been confirmed that the May 2012 Lyari Operation had to be suspended with an unnecessary loss of police blood, exposing a mega fraud which was hushed up at the highest level. This fraud relates to the substandard armoured and tracking cars, the tyre-mounted and chain-mounted APCs that were provided to the police to enter the troubled areas with confidence and guaranteed protection and safety. But these APCs proved to be death traps for those inside.

Several policemen were killed inside these vehicles by low-calibre bullets though these APCs were supposed to be bullet- and bomb-proof.

At least 18 vehicles launched in the operation were hit by ordinary bullets which pierced them, making holes and killing or injuring the policemen inside. One type of APC cost Rs20 million each while the other was Rs54 million per piece approximately.

The APCs were provided by a Pakistani company, Heavy Industries, Taxila (HIT), and were demanded by the Sindh government to fight the heavily-armed terrorists and urban gangs of criminals.

The basic weakness of these APCs, also supplied to the Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa police, was that its protective shield was too thin and fragile and could not even stop low-calibre bullets as experienced during the Lyari Operation.

Named “Muhafiz,” the APCs proved a deadly embarrassment for the police and after more than seven were destroyed by the armed gangs, an urgent joint investigation was launched.

The report of this JIT, obtained by The News, reveals that hundreds of millions of rupees had been wasted as the manufacturer of the APCs received the payments for much better quality APCs.

“Talha”, the chain-mounted tracker vehicle, had its own problems – again indicating how public money close to Rs04 billion allocated for such purchases was brutally misappropriated, while exposing the police to the dangers of death and injuries and endangering the entire counter-terrorism effort in urban centres.

One senior police official told The News: “With such vehicles carrying the counter-terrorist staffs, the entire security of the country is at risk. This scandal has also put the standard of tanks being produced to fight the peripheral counter-terrorism war into doubt.”

The embarrassment was displayed in Lyari when one of the APCs was not only snatched by gangs, but, after killing and injuring the policemen inside it, was hung up from a tall structure for all to see.

The JIT report revealed two blatant admissions, apart from others, by the Sindh Police as well as the manufacturer of these vehicles: (a) The standard of these vehicles was criminally poor; (b) unused vehicles were returned to the manufacturer for upgrading at government cost, which runs into tens of millions of rupees.

The JIT further points out that 40 (Talha) trackers and 60 Muhafiz APCs were built by use of chassis acquired through an Islamabad-based company, the principal partner of which is a Dubai based company, both traders and not manufacturer.

Muhafiz’s supplied version was designed in 2004-05 with aluminium body, which was bullet-resistant with 110 engine horse power for 2.5 ton load and shield of 7.62 calibre, which is the Nato standard. All eventual orders met the substandard additions which were introduced with steel (not aluminium) body and the low-calibre bullets fired at them in Lyari operation exposed their worth.

Ironically, the JIT suggests that the producer promised to repair the damaged APCs, again at additional cost, but experts say such APCs cannot be repaired because if they are originally vulnerable, welding makes them more vulnerable.

The News contacted Brig Rehmat Khan, Managing Director, APC Factory, HIT, Taxila, for his comments on the quality of the APCs and the JIT report findings, but he refused to talk in detail and just said: “I won’t talk on this issue.”

But Sindh Home Secretary Sohail Akber, however, gave his views on the issue. “We shall take action on the official JIT report produced by experts and the relevant sides to determine the causes of police casualties in the APCs,” he said.

When asked if it would only be the Sindh government taking such action against whoever was found at fault, or if the federal government too would do its part, the Home Secretary said: “Whichever authority is relevant has to play its part in taking action”.

An international expert on APCs, Dr Jan Stegmann, Vice President Composhield A/S, USA, who is also a Professor at Aalborg University, USA, told the News that the Muhafiz cannot do its job even after repairs as it would stay as vulnerable as it already is.

“If you plan to make it secure for the personnel, then you have to upgrade it. You cannot do that too. The B-6 version cannot be upgraded as it cannot carry the weight the B-7 version has to carry.”

Asked if he meant that the Muhafiz needs to be trashed and the billions spent on this version had gone waste, he said: “I am afraid the situation has proved your fear.”

When asked if Pakistan can produce B-7 APCs by importing all the kit-plus material, Dr Stegmann said some of the components can be built within Pakistan but the rest would have to be imported for assembly purposes.

The JIT report reveals that the APCs’ shields were produced applying B-6 protection level, which is used for luxury cars; whereas, the international standard for APCs is 9mm sheet level but in Muhafiz the thickness level was just 6mm.

Furthermore, the manufacturer of Muhafiz and Talha vehicles did not submit with the supplies the manufacturer’s guarantee, warranty and mill-test certificates, and the recipient, mysteriously, did not object

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... -operation

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 Jul 2012 18:39

A new (and yet old) demand surfaces again. Pay us for an event that never happened
India must compensate PCB for cancelled tour of 2009: Butt

"It is a good thing that finally the Board of Control for Cricket in India has invited Pakistan to play a short series this year in India. But my concern is, the PCB needs to gain something more out of the series than the resumption of ties"

The way we estimated things we had lost around 45 to 50 million dollars

Yeah sure. When pigs fly! (and, I am not referring to the PIA)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2012 19:00

^BCCI needs this slap on the face.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Jul 2012 20:12

It would be good to draw the Pakistani Army into Karachi. May be some urban warfare can be practiced there with the Pakistani security forces having only substandard maal!

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 24 Jul 2012 20:21

Funny thing is the One who was behind the Heavy Industries in Pakistan was Soviet Union when the Unkil and Eurabians had blatantly refused to establish a Steel Plant in Pakistan for more than 4 Decades.

Pakistani Steel Mills

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2012 20:33

AbhiJ wrote:Funny thing is the One who was behind the Heavy Industries in Pakistan was Soviet Union when the Unkil and Eurabians had blatantly refused to establish a Steel Plant in Pakistan for more than 4 Decades.
Pakistani Steel Mills

And, the only one who can rescue the moribund PSM is an Indian.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jul 2012 20:37

What in the hell is Extragalactic Astrophysics? Why there are no PhDs in Jinn Technology in Pakistan? I protest.

Pakistan's Mariam brings home EA Ph.D

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jul 2012 20:47

TSP's Supreme Court throws out Rental Raja's submission on writing to Swiss Govt.

The Supreme Court on Tuesday declared inadmissible the government’s reply in the NRO implementation case, DawnNews reported.

The reply, submitted by Attorney General Irfan Qadir, was subsequently returned with objections.

Now, what ?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 Jul 2012 20:49

saip wrote:What in the hell is Extragalactic Astrophysics? Why there are no PhDs in Jinn Technology in Pakistan? I protest.

Pakistan's Mariam brings home EA Ph.D

Kufr! How dare you question our motives. While you and your short, dark, rice eating, dhoti wearing bespectacled scientists with funny accents are only working on sending your miserable spacecrafts to Mars and the moon, our ummah loving scientists (and that too, tall and lithesome ladies) are concentrating on what's going on outside our galaxy. Space has no barrier in our way of life. Allah the most benevolent is also the most far seeing. You can take that to the bank.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 Jul 2012 20:50

SSridhar wrote:TSP's Supreme Court throws out Rental Raja's submission on writing to Swiss Govt.
The Supreme Court on Tuesday declared inadmissible the government’s reply in the NRO implementation case, DawnNews reported.

The reply, submitted by Attorney General Irfan Qadir, was subsequently returned with objections.
Now, what ?

Mayhem, confusion, and slapstick comedy. In other words, another typical day in the lifecycle of a failed nation. Watch this space.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 24 Jul 2012 20:55

http://www.firstpost.com/world/pak-visa ... 89419.html

Lahore: Nine people, including five women, were arrested today by Pakistani authorities for their alleged involvement in a visa scam that could have allowed terrorists to sneak into Britain along with the country’s Olympic team.

Among those arrested by the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) were Lahore-based officials of the passport office and the National Database and Registration Authority (NADRA) and employees of a private travel agency.

At least five women were among those arrested.

The arrested persons allegedly helped an undercover reporter of the British tabloid The Sun acquire a Computerised National Identity Card and a Pakistani passport.

After the tabloid exposed the scam yesterday, the Interior Ministry took action and suspended 12 officials of the passport office and NADRA in Lahore.

They were only arrested by Paki scums because thins was a sting operation. If it was real, ISI/army/liberals/conservative Pakis would have all helped in the plot.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 Jul 2012 20:59

vijayk wrote:http://www.firstpost.com/world/pak-visa ... 89419.html
At least five women were among those arrested. The arrested persons allegedly helped an undercover reporter of the British tabloid The Sun acquire a Computerised National Identity Card and a Pakistani passport
....ISI/army/liberals/conservative Pakis would have all helped in the plot.

These women were arrested solely because they helped in unearthing this scam. Dr. Afridi, phase II. I bet the ISI and its country cousins (the hillbillies) are involved.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jul 2012 21:34

Five women? Interesting. Could it be that the strategically brilliant tactically stupid ISI set a honey trap and it has gone awry and so to cover their tracks they arrested them?

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 24 Jul 2012 21:35

It appears that the PA controls Heavy Industries Taxila and it will be interesting to see how much public criticism the PA will take about the defective APC scandal.

Education City’s role lauded

Earlier, on his arrival, Chairman Heavy Industries Taxila Lt General Ayaz Saleem Rana and administrator HITEC Brig (retired) Taj Iqbal received him and gave him a detailed presentation on various sections of the Education City. Later, the girls’ section students presented different tableaus.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Jul 2012 21:53

We are the pariahs of the world — Yasser Latif Hamdani

From the link Anupmisra ji posted in the last page of previous thread that was 72-ed comes this quote,

Had we heeded Jinnah’s words on August 11, 1947, and had we not created arbitrary bars against various communities and had we treated religion as a matter between man and God, Pakistan may well have excelled and become one of the greatest nations on earth.

Now with many Pakistanis realized that "More Islam" is actually the panacea for more trouble, this falling back on "Had we listened to Jinnah" seems to be the only way out with losing much H&D. Problem is, AIR has said such a tape of Jinnah espousing secularism to Pakistan's people is not in their possession. Doubts are pretty much valid on the existence of such a tape after all. If that comes to light what else will the Pakistanis fall back upon?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Jul 2012 22:06

SSridhar wrote:^BCCI needs this slap on the face.

Paki thinking pattern: you give them something, and they reason that you are so desperate to give them something, so now is the time to press their advantage and demand even more.

If they do this enough times and with enough panache, it has the effect of the Big Lie: pretty soon you start believing that you have a desperate need to give to the pakis.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jul 2012 22:27

But this so called demand is not made by the PCB but a disgraced Ex chief of PCB. How is he relevant and how can he make any demands?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2012 22:44

saip wrote:But this so called demand is not made by the PCB but a disgraced Ex chief of PCB. How is he relevant and how can he make any demands?

This is how it starts.

They are simply testing the waters hoping that some stupid rundeeTV like channel will run with it.

It it takes, then all the other vermin will come crawling out the woodwork.

The trusted ally the burkha brigade is always and ever ready at their service onlee.

ps how can any paki be "disgraced"? It goes without saying.......

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 24 Jul 2012 22:45

^^^ butt, he is just like a non-state actor onlee! Majority of pakistanis are moderate, peace loving people. By not playing or compensating PCB is only leading to disgracing of PCB officials!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jul 2012 01:24

US backs Pakistan-India cricket diplomacy

http://dawn.com/2012/07/24/us-backs-pak ... diplomacy/

WASHINGTON: The United States has expressed its support for Pakistan-India cricket diplomacy and desires that in addition to progress on trade relations, the two South Asian nations now also move forward on trust building, counter-terrorism cooperation and tackling political issues.According to the State Department, Americans generally don’t know much about cricket but they like it, when Pakistan and India play their popular sport. “We’re for cricket. We don’t understand it, but we like it,” State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland said amid laughter during the daily briefing.She was commenting on Pakistan and India, the two Asian powerhouses, resuming their cricketing ties later this year, in a diplomatic move that is part of broader efforts to normalize bilateral relations.Cricket is the most popular sport in both Pakistan and India, and contests between the countries are played in a spirit of intense competition and rivalry. In recent months, both countries have shown willingness to improve their bilateral ties in trade and some other areas. But, Islamabad and New Delhi are still to make progress on addressing some longstanding contentious security and political issues including Kashmir dispute.In the larger context of Pakistani-Indian relations, the State Department spokesperson said, Washington shares the “interest of people in India, people in Pakistan – - – in seeing these two countries continuing to improve their relationship.”“We have been supportive in all of our diplomatic encounters at every level with the e]Indian side, with the Pakistani side in some of the progress that they’ve made,” Nuland noted.She was appreciative that Islamabad and New Delhi have made “considerable progress” on the economic side. “We are encouraging them to do better on issues like sharing counter-terrorism information, dealing with threats to both countries, moving forward to work on trust (building) and political issues, so we will continue (to) support dialogue between them at every level, but it’s obviously up to Indians and Pakistanis to continue to work on this.”Regarding dealing with the aftermath of the 2008 Mumbai bombings – that came as a setback for a five-year old South Asian peace process – and bringing people to justice, the spokesperson said, that issue “comes up in all of our discussions with Indians and with Pakistanis.”

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jul 2012 01:30

Lining Up Ramadan Khairat

US Asked to release Coalition Support Fund within days

ASSLAMABAD: Pakistan is likely to receive $ 1.10b coalition support fund from by the US in three days. Finance ministry sources told Dunya News that the Master US has agreed to release coalition support fund to Pakistan within next 48 hours. According to Finance Ministry, the national reservoir would reach to $ 15.89 after release of funds by the Master US

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2012 06:46

KLNMurthy wrote:Paki thinking pattern: you give them something, and they reason that you are so desperate to give them something, so now is the time to press their advantage and demand even more.

If they do this enough times and with enough panache, it has the effect of the Big Lie: pretty soon you start believing that you have a desperate need to give to the pakis.

Substitute Muslim League in this instead of 'Paki', that would explain their behaviour all through. The ML carried this trait into the newly created state of Pakistan (of course along with paranoia for Hindu India, and aggression)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2012 07:15

Today is 25th, probably the last day for Rental Raja in office. He will not enjoy the distinction of being the shortest-serving PM of TSP. That record is held by Nur-ul-Amin.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Jul 2012 07:58

Yogi_G wrote:We are the pariahs of the world — Yasser Latif Hamdani

From the link Anupmisra ji posted in the last page of previous thread that was 72-ed comes this quote,

Had we heeded Jinnah’s words on August 11, 1947, and had we not created arbitrary bars against various communities and had we treated religion as a matter between man and God, Pakistan may well have excelled and become one of the greatest nations on earth.
Now with many Pakistanis realized that "More Islam" is actually the panacea for more trouble, this falling back on "Had we listened to Jinnah" seems to be the only way out with losing much H&D. Problem is, AIR has said such a tape of Jinnah espousing secularism to Pakistan's people is not in their possession. Doubts are pretty much valid on the existence of such a tape after all. If that comes to light what else will the Pakistanis fall back upon?

That "famous Jinnah" speech that Paki liberals never tire of quoting may not exist at all.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/393625/no-c ... ech-india/

Following the Pakistan Broadcast Corporation’s (PBC) request for a recording of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s secular state speech, the state-run All India Radio (AIR) told the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) that it does not have any recordings of it.

Also I know this nincompoop quite well (dont ask me how) and have a pisko theory about him and other people like him. Will post about that later.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Jul 2012 08:02

From CNN. Pakis have been demanding drone technology (and if that is not possible, money and arms & ammo for their F16s) to bomb the terrorist hideouts themselves. You know what it means, the drones/planes will be used in Balochistan and against India. You have to admire pakis for the persistence in begging. Despite repeated denials and refusals, they keep on nagging.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/world/asi ... index.html
Pakistan spy agency chief to tell CIA: End drone strikes; ID targets for us to attack

The new chief of Pakistan's spy agency will urge the United States to end drone strikes on Pakistani soil and identify targets that the country's security forces can then attack, a senior intelligence official said.

"You (the U.S.) develop a target and let us hit it," Islam will tell CIA Director David Petraeus, the official said. "It would be ideal if the U.S. provides drone technology to Pakistan."

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Jul 2012 08:17

Anujan wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/world/asi ... index.html
Pakistan spy agency chief to tell CIA: End drone strikes; ID targets for us to attack

Here's a comment to the news link above by someone named Frank Duval in Afghanistan:

I am a surveillance operator in southern Afghanistan, not far from the Pakistan border. I watch dozens of vehicals take Afghan poppy/opium to Pak daily to be turned into heroin and sold on the streets of the U.S.

I also watch dozens of trucks come back daily, filled with fertilizer and Taliban-trained fighters. The fertilizer is to make IED bombs and the fighters are to try to drive the U.S. out of Afghanistan, so that the Taliban can resume abusing it's population and take over the drug trade to fund and spread its sick twisted version of Islam throughout Asia and Africa.

We have given the Pakistanis intel about the locations and identities of these people. They only harbor and protect them more (often among the Pak military and civilians). We have given them PLENTY of opportunities to kick the Taliban out of Pak.

Now, we do it our way. And our way is proving to be very effective.

Attaboy Frank. Go get'em.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Jul 2012 08:40

Londonistan going to the dogs
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 8700.story

It is there in leaflets distributed quietly in London declaring that Ahmadis are "wajib ul qatl"

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 25 Jul 2012 08:58

-
Bill Roggio on dealing with pakistan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-kb-l286fE

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2012 09:05

TSPA is itself full on drones. Why do they need drone technology? So more of them can be lazy?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2012 09:36

On the August 11, 1947 speech, I quote from the archives of The Hindu,

Addressing the minorities in particular, Mr. Jinnah said: "If you work in a spirit of co-operation, forgetting the past and burying the hatchet, I will say that every one of you, no matter to what community you belong, no matter what colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges and obligations."

He has put the onus for equal citizenship right on the good behaviour of the minorities. Their plight later on is simply due to their bad behaviour. Full stop.

BTW, The Hindu also reports that Jinnah had indeed said those ringing words about Hindus ceasing to be Hindus (which in fact has happened incidentally) etc. The fact remains however that neither before that speech nor after that speech he had ever spoken of or done anything about minority rights and protection. So, August 11, 1947 speech was a one-off to hoodwink the powerful friends, probably done even at their prodding.

OTOH, Jinnah readily agreed with the ulema to impose Shariah in a free Pakistan to win their support. The letter that Jinnah wrote to the Pir of Manki Sharif, in Naushera of NWFP, in which he said that Shariah will be imposed in Pakistan to manage the affairs of the Muslim Community, was produced in the Constituent Assembly in 1949 to support the Objectives Resolution. It was this Pir's support, based on the promise of Shariah in Pakistan, that helped the Muslim League to turn the situation favourable to itself in NWFP which was otherwise under the Congress Rule. It was this Pir who let loose violence when Nehru visited that region. He also helped in procuring manpower for jihad in J&K in October 1947. As a result of Jinnah's promise, the Pir of Manki Sharif declared jihad to achieve Pakistan and ordered the members of his anjuman to support the League in the 1946 elections

While addressing the Karachi Bar Association on 25 January 1948 on the occasion of the Holy Prophet’s birthday, Jinnah said: “Some are misled by propaganda. Islamic principles are as applicable to life as they were 1,300 years ago. The Constitution of Pakistan will be made on the basis of the shariah”.

In the 14 August, 1947 speech in which, in answer to Mountbatten’s reference to Akbar the Great, as the model for the new Muslim state, he pointed to the greater example of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, thereby indicating where Pakistan's Constitution was headed to.

One of Pakistan’s renowned political scientists, Prof. (Late) Khalid bin Sayeed narrates in his book, ‘Pakistan: The Formative Phase 1957-1948’ Jinnah’s assurances to a group of visiting Islamists thus: “…Constituent Assembly…will be predominantly Muslim…and would be able to enact laws for the Muslims not inconsistence with Shariah Laws and the Muslims will no longer be obliged by un-Islamic laws…” While portraying himself as a secularist and a Constitutionalist, Jinnah nevertheless asked only an Islamic clergy, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani who had apostatised Shias, to raise the flag of Pakistan on Aug. 14, 1947. Later, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, who had apostatized Ahmedis and calling for them to be stoned to death, was made Sheikh-ul-Islam-i-Pakistan. It was Shabbir Usmani who later drafted the Objectives Resolution.

In passionate speeches that Jinnah delivered to masses of the new state of Pakistan, he addressed them as ‘Mussalmans’ instead of as ‘Pakistanis’ and used terms like ‘mujahid’, ‘tenets of the Holy Quran’, and referred to Pakistan as a ‘bulwark of Islam’.

Again, on Oct. 30, 1947, with the plan of his Kashmir invasion to grab it floundering badly, Jinnah resorted to appealing to Islamic fervour. He asked Pakistanis to make sacrifices for ‘the honour of Pakistan and Islam’. He exhorted his countrymen to ‘lay the foundations of democracy on the bases of truly Islamic ideals and principles’. His muddled thinking but his unequivocal support for an Islamic governance was amply demonstrated in his Feb. 1948 public address over Radio Pakistan when he said that Pakistan’s to-be-drafted Constitution should be based on Islam but he hoped that Pakistan would not be a theocratic state. Even as far back as c. 1941, Jinnah had assured a representative of the influential founder of Jama'at-e-Islami, Mawdudi that he saw no incompatibility between their two approaches. He said that as the events were unfolding yet, he was constrained from openly asserting the Islamist nature of Pakistan !! His further words to Mawdudi's representative really betrayed what he was up to. "I will continue to strive for the cause of a separate Muslim state, and you do your services in this regard; our efforts need not be mutually exclusive. I seek to secure the land for the mosque; once that land belongs to us, then we can decide on how to build the mosque.” The noted Pakistani analyst, Khaled Ahmed interprets this as follows: What this meant for the Jama‘at was that a continuum existed between the activities of the Muslim League and those of the Jama‘at; where one ended at partition the other began: the Jama‘at-i Islami was to inherit Pakistan. Thus Mawdudi reconciled with the Quaid-e-Azam whom he once referred to as Kafir-e-Azam (the Great Infidel).

It is a different matter though that in circa 2007, clerics belonging to the same Ulema community denounced the Quaid as not a hero of Pakistan because by that time Islam had become more distilled in the mosque for which the Quaid acquired land.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 10:25

Did he leave out the word 'religion' deliberately or was 'creed' supposed to cover that? I doubt it..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jul 2012 10:26

Muslim world in crisis
Shame shaad Ahmak
The writer is a Rotton Onion.
Khanne Kheere, Kutta Kassetna tei Galla Karnia Asmana diya

What is even more disturbing is that two of the world’s largest regions, Africa and South Asia, both rich in natural and human resources, are the biggest victims of poverty and violence. Both continue to be scenes of endemic instability as a result of conflicts and hostilities, unresolved disputes, unaddressed historical grievances, and deep-rooted communal and religious estrangement. And the Muslim world is in no better shape.They have no bone, no muscle and whatever wealth they possess is being exploited by the West. The rulers in today’s Muslim world, without exception, are at the mercy of the US for their political strength and survival, and are responsible for the current political, economic and military subservience of their countries to the West. Their lands and resources remain under “protective” military control of their masters, who are also the direct beneficiaries of their oil proceeds and investments. Every ingredient of political life in these so-called sovereign states has been faked; sovereignty is not sovereignty, parliament is not parliament, law is not law, and the opposition parties are as corrupt and wasted as the ruling parties. Even the independence following the colonial powers’ handing over of the reins of government to local rulers was not true independence. Other than being members of the United Nations, they have no semblance of sovereignty, independence or freedom. Peace is the essence of Islam and yet the Muslim nations have seen very little of it, especially after the Second World War. Conflict and violence are pervasive in the Muslim world ( So the Khaliffas were assasinated by Americanos in 7th century)

( Solution is more and pure Islam)

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 Jul 2012 10:35

^^^

was reading with interest until I saw THIS...so yet another gimme dollah article..gimme dollah because you worship same god as me..

Though some of them are sitting on the world’s largest oil and gas reserves, the majority of Muslim countries are among the poorest and most backward in the world

He still cannot see beyond Muslims and Muslim world. And this is supposed to be a moderate, progressive elite..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2012 12:59

Rental Raja's occupation of office extended by 2 more weeks by the SC

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 25 Jul 2012 15:36

Olympics passport scam: Federal cabinet to file lawsuit against The Sun | Tribune

TSP's Senate to file lawsuit against the British tabloid for infringing on Pakistan's sovereignty even if that means giving British Visas to anyone willing to pay for it while their FIA arrests 11 folks in the same case.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2012 16:17

^I do not understand. TSP investigated and arrested some people based on the report. Why is it now turning around to file a law suit ?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Jul 2012 16:52

SSridhar wrote:^I do not understand. TSP investigated and arrested some people based on the report. Why is it now turning around to file a law suit ?

Baksheesh?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 25 Jul 2012 17:24

Roperia wrote:Olympics passport scam: Federal cabinet to file lawsuit against The Sun | Tribune

TSP's Senate to file lawsuit against the British tabloid for infringing on Pakistan's sovereignty even if that means giving British Visas to anyone willing to pay for it while their FIA arrests 11 folks in the same case.

Just like they sued ECB over the fixing scandal.

This whole country is a bloody bunch of scums.