Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2012

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skaranam
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by skaranam »

Anujan wrote:
The theory of Martial races was complete BS spread by the British, it was more of "theory of races and castes where we have our people to influence so that they stay loyal"

For example, Marathas were no longer classified as martial after the 1857 rebellion :mrgreen: Sure why not? They only had people like Shivaji. 8)

Same with the SDRE southies, whose history and literature abounds with warriors and peans sung to bravery and courage. Rajendra Chola had conquered half of Indonesia and everything in between. Remember that LTTE was fullout southie SDRE and southie SDREs also have contributed to Army chiefs like Sundarji and Padmanabhan. But they werent classified as "martial" because the hierarchical structures like landowning classes did not dominate fully in south and it was hard to exert control.

The Punjabi Mussalman on the other hand, was loyal and could be controlled and fought for the British. So they rewarded them with "Martial" tag and recruited them liberally in Indian Army (pre Independence) Ofcourse this got interpreted as "One Pakistani = 8 Hindoos" and the "Martial Pakistanis" got their musharraf repeatedly kicked by the Indian army who employes SDREs onlee.

interesting thing is, they got their musharraf kicked in the desert, in the plains, in marshes, on top of mountains, in glaciers, on the sea, under the sea, on air. There is not one place where the Pakistani martial races didnt get their musharraf kicked by non-martial SDREs. :rotfl:
Shiv has addressed this topic in his book 'Pakistan failed state'
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (news article - posted in full)
After presidential snub: Russia sends out top diplomat to placate Pakistan
By Kamran Yousaf - Published: October 2, 2012

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Viktorovich Lavrov. PHOTO: FILE
ISLAMABAD: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Viktorovich Lavrov will travel to Pakistan this week in what appears to be a ‘damage control’ exercise after President Vladimir Putin postponed his scheduled trip to Islamabad recently.

Foreign ministry spokesperson Moazzam Ali Khan told The Express Tribune that the Russian foreign minister will be visiting Islamabad for “bilateral consultations” from October 3-4.

“He is visiting Pakistan on the invitation of Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar, extended during her last visit to Moscow in February this year,” the spokesman said.

Official sources said this visit by the top Russian diplomat was aimed at dispelling impressions that efforts by the two sides to reset their otherwise troubled ties might get stalled after President Putin put off his maiden trip to Pakistan.

While the Russian foreign minister will be holding broad-based discussions with the Pakistani leadership in Islamabad, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani would be in Moscow at the same time for discussions with his counterpart.

Gen Kayani is due to leave for Russia on October 3 for a three-day trip as part of the new efforts launched by the former cold war rivals to open a new chapter in their ties.

The Afghan endgame is believed to be a major factor behind the apparent rapprochement between Islamabad and Moscow.

“Pakistan and Russia are increasingly concerned about the future of Afghanistan. And that is why they intend to expand their cooperation,” commented Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed, a Jinnah fellow at the Oxford University.

According to Ishtiaq, Islamabad appears to be reaching out to countries like Russia in an effort to seek a regional solution to the Afghan conflict instead of the one the US is trying to impose.

A statement issued by the foreign ministry also hinted at this assessment by suggesting that Pakistan and Russia “share the common objective of peace and stability” in the region.

“We attach importance to regional connectivity both in terms of trade and energy cooperation,” the statement added.

Recently, the two countries also held their second Inter-Governmental Commission (IGC) on Trade, Economic, Scientific and Technical Cooperation in Islamabad and discussed concrete proposals on various areas of cooperation including energy, industries and production, bilateral trade and investment, scientific and technical cooperation, agriculture, etc.

The foreign ministry spokesperson said that the forthcoming visit of Foreign Minister Lavrov would provide an opportunity to further expand and intensify the existing mutually-beneficial bilateral ties.

During his stay in Islamabad, besides holding bilateral consultations, Foreign Minister Lavrov is also scheduled to call on President Asif Ali Zardari and the prime minister.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 2nd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (opinion piece also a book review- posted in full)
Is class still destiny in Pakistan?
By Khaled Ahmed - Published: September 29, 2012

The writer is Director South Asian Media School, Lahore khaled.ahmed@tribune.com.pk

Somewhere along the way, Pakistan has forgotten about its classes and how they are created, especially how certain classes are supposed to be permanently disadvantaged because of their identity. The buzz today is poverty alleviation without much thought to the class structure in which poverty is meant to be alleviated. The general comprehension of how things will sort out economically is restricted to the state’s facilitation of the private sector’s ‘capitalist class’.

That does not mean that there are no classes. In Pakistan, there are identity groups created by the historical process in the rural economy and the relatively recent categories of the working class in the urban economy. A teacher at the Lahore University of Management Sciences, Taimur Rahman, has written an impressively learned book on the subject The Class Structure of Pakistan (OUP 2012),which is worth reading for its insights.

His thesis is derived from Hegel’s formulation that ‘the development of history is the result of internal contradictions’, which when applied to society means that these internal contradictions are actually class contradictions as they arise on the basis of the modes of production and class structure. The aim of his book is to examine the dominant mode of production and class structure of Pakistan.

There are insights on the way to the central thesis. He tells us how French social philosopher Montesquieu (1689-1755), who belongs in my intellectual pantheon of European minds as someone who posited ‘relativism’ as a vehicle of tolerance, got it wrong with his term ‘oriental despot’. He thought that “whereas the power of the European monarchs was constrained by the Despotic (absolute) power over their courtiers”, the oriental despot ruled without constraints because people living in warm countries were “hot-tempered”. And that France was more suitable for “the development of republican governments”.

Voltaire was, of course, more of a ‘relativist’ when he debunked Montesquieu and opined that although China’s empire was despotic, it was not tyrannical.

In newly-created Pakistan, classes were born out of the pattern of ownership of land. Landlords were few and humanity dependent on land and working for the landlords were myriad. Three per cent owned 30 per cent of the arable land, most of them Rajput and Jat.

In the 1950s, the evolution of class-based communist mind among the rural population was averted by the Harvard Advisory Group positing a high-growth Green Revolution. Land reform failed and the big owners of land were able to duck it, thus keeping intact the pattern of ownership of land that perpetuated the class structure (p 162).

In the countryside, class system is another name for caste system and it changes at a glacial pace: “In a word, the very existence of the caste system is the best proof of Asiatic stagnation” (p 238). One can understand why Pakistani society reacts maniacally to couples marrying by free choice after reading that the rural class system survived by endogamy and Pakistan’s cities are too recent of birth to overcome it: “Caste is nothing but a division of labour that is hereditary” (p 238).

More insights are offered when analysing the lasting angst of Pakistani society: “On the one hand, slavish worship of capitalist modernity; on the other, a search for non-Western identity that inexorably leads to reactionary ideologies. On the one hand, sections of society that are completely Westernised and more at home in London or New York than in Lahore or Karachi; on the other, sections of society opposed to Westernisation and aspiring to re-create an Islamic Khilafat.”

P.S.: The index is not so good.

Published in The Express Tribune, September 30th, 2012.
Last edited by BijuShet on 03 Oct 2012 06:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Comer »

This Xerox Khan is awesome on twitter. Am not sure whether if it is a real account or parody account:

https://twitter.com/DrAQ_Khan
‏@DrAQ_Khan: @noumansajawal It's no different then duality of western superpowers who make Einstein living legend for same and another one proliferator
@DrAQ_Khan: Our youth must rise up to stop such trend in #Pakistan . A person who doesn't even stay in Pakistan can never finish our problems.

‏@shakirhusain : @DrAQ_Khan But Dac Sb, every "youth's" aspiration is to leave tha #Pakistan and steal blueprints as per their role model. :rotfl:

@DrAQ_Khan: @shakirhusain I've answered such sarcasm many times but I won't reply this time! Youth should go to any limits to save this nation!
JE Menon
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by JE Menon »

>>It is also interesting that all Hina-related news items come from BD.

There may be some elements of truth to it...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by ramana »

SSridhar, After 1965 war the FSU courted the TSP and started suppying weapons. Soon after Nixon got elected and the TSP was used as the conduit to reach out to China.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

Author argues that America is not violating Pakistan's sovirginity because Pakistan has no sovirginity to violate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/20 ... vereignty/
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (opinion piece - posted in full) QEA being redefined
Jinnah and Pythagoras
By Khaled Ahmed - Published: October 2, 2012

The writer is Director South Asian Media School, Lahore khaled.ahmed@tribune.com.pk

The Quaid-e-Azam was named Muhammad Ali (new spelling) but he added the name Jinnah to it. What is the meaning of Jinnah? Will it be too shocking to relate his name to Greek philosopher Pythagoras who is said to have travelled to India and met the hermits of Jina-dharm, or more familiarly Jainism?

Jinnah was a part of his father’s name: Jinabhai Poonja, who named him Mohamed Ali, which could also be written in the Ismaili style: Mohamedali. (Fatima Jinnah fondly called him Mamed.) In The Shaping of Gujarat: Plurality, Hindutva and Beyond (Penguin, 2005), it is noted that Jina was a common name among Gujaratis and also among Muslims who started settling in Gujarat in the 12th century. Many Muslims (Bohra, Khoja, Memon) included local converts, all claiming to be from the Lohana Rajput tribe.

The book also records the rise of Jainism in Gujarat under the Rajput dynasty of the Chalukiya (AD 942-1299), many of this faith rising to high ranks and counted among the tradesmen shaped by the only port, Surat, on the western coast of India. Ismaili-Bohra scholar Asghar Ali Engineer once told me that Ismaili-Musta’ali Muslims called themselves Bohra after they were well treated by a local Gujarati ruler named Vohra.

Jinnah’s Poonja family had its origin in Gujarat and could have grown to admire the non-violent Jains also called Jinas. In Maneka Gandhi’s book of Hindu names, a dozen names starting with Jina are all identified as of Jain origin, meaning victorious. Jinnah’s father was named Jinabhai.

Pythagoras (570–495 BC) is a pre-Socratic Ionian (today’s Turkey) thinker who betrayed strong ascetic influence only known in India. Legend has it that he travelled from Ionia to Egypt, then to Babylon, before going to India where he met the living Jina saint — naked because he was Digambara (sky-clad) rather than Svetambara (white-clad). He was converted to the ahimsa faith. Alexander, too, met the same Jina naked philosophers when he came to India. (Junagadh, which is now in Gujarat, means Greek City.) Gandhi, the great Gujarati leader, too, embraced ahimsa as his political creed.

One should note that Jina is from the root ‘jai’, which means ‘victory’ in Hindi. ‘Jina’, therefore, means ‘victor’. It is interesting that the concept of victory in Sanskrit is linked to survival of the winner rather than the death of his enemy. Jina also means ‘to live’. The greatest scholar of Indo-European word roots, Joseph Shipley, linked the English word victory to survival through victuals (food), which sustains life.

Pythagoras means Apollo’s court. But thereby hangs a tale. The Oracle of Delphi — Apollo’s oracle — was built around a process of divination on the rotten bones of a snake by a prostitute. One must remember that the Greek ‘y’ is actually the English ‘u’. The ‘pyth’ in Pythagoras is actually ‘puth’.

It comes from the Greek puthein (to rot). This Greek word has given us many derivatives, some of them quite strange. Jospeh Shipley comes up with the Indo-European root ‘pu’, which is close to ‘bu’ of Persian, meaning rotten smell, and French ‘pue’ means to smell badly. Greek puon and Latin word pus (also English) gives rise to putrid and pyorrhea, the bad smell that comes from rotten teeth.

The divining prostitute was called pythia. (One snake is today named python.) She symbolised nature’s fertility. Robert Graves thought the cult had come from India. Today, Italian for prostitute is putta and the French word for it is putain. (The French are careful not to write the name of the Russian president, Putin as it is, because of its phonetic similarity with putain; they write it Poutine.)

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (opinion piece - posted in full)
Dangers of holding a Pakistani ID card
By Zahrah Nasir - Published: October 2, 2012

The writer is author of The Gun Tree: One Woman’s War (Oxford University Press, 2001) and lives in Bhurban

“Afghanistan is now far more dangerous than it was during mujahideen days,” an old friend, a former mujahid himself, tells me as we sit cross-legged on a handwoven Hertai carpet in a sun-spattered Kabul room sipping green tea and nibbling almonds. “It is highly dangerous for us all but especially so for anyone holding Pakistani identification of any kind,” he warns. “Just two days ago, in a mountainous area near Sarobi, three young children, of whom the eldest was a boy of 12, were brutally murdered. Their throats were cut by the Taliban. Their parents had gone out somewhere and the children were alone. The reason given for this atrocity was that their parents had Pakistani identification cards.”

He shivers while relating this incident. It was widely reported and he, like so many others in Afghanistan, holds a Pakistani ID card himself, as do all older members of his family, who spent many years in and around Peshawar refugee camps.

This gruesome twist in an already complicated situation, fraught with danger from so many sides at once, certainly should be of major concern in light of the Pakistan government’s recent decision to repatriate — forcibly, if need be — a large percentage of Afghan refugee families who either arrived in the country after the Soviet invasion of 1979 or fled to ‘safety’ during the days of the Taliban rule.

The majority of such people, save for the illegal refugees, hold Pakistani identification of some kind. It is also a clear indication of how the ‘rules’ are changing and changing fast. Up until now, most people were of the opinion that all Taliban were of Pakistani origin and yet, as this incident highlights, this no longer holds true as the attackers went after those possessing Pakistani identification.

“The Taliban are inhuman,” my friend continues. “And, now that some foreign forces — the French, for example — have or are pulling out of some areas of Afghanistan, these monsters are encouraged to move in, and in the Sarobi area at least, they are being joined by Chechens whose cruelty knows no bounds. Even I, as the fighter that I was and still am, though now in the Afghan National Army, dare not set foot in my own village as the Taliban have sworn to kill all, including their families, who are connected with our government in anyway. To now be in the Afghan National Army or the police is extremely dangerous as not only do you face death in the line of duty on a daily basis, but your family can also be murdered in your absence.”

Over the last few years, it has been customary for serving members of the Afghan National Army and the police force to leave their families safe and secure in Pakistan — if at all possible — whilst they themselves fight for freedom and attempt to uphold law and order at home. However, it appears that this scenario could soon change.

“The murder of these children serves as a warning to us all,” he explains. “If our families are here, they could be killed at any time as a way of terrorising us. There is pressure on us. It is not easy being in the army or the police here and everyone, including you, holding Pakistani identification, will need to tread very, very carefully, indeed or … die!”

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

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From Tribune (opinion piece - posted in full)
Echoes of the past
By Tariq Fatemi - Published: October 2, 2012

The writer was Pakistan’s ambassador to the EU from 2002-2004 and to the US in 1999 tariq.fatemi@tribune.com.pk

The cancellation of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s much-anticipated visit to Islamabad was deeply disappointing, as Pakistan was convinced that it could add an important new dimension to the country’s foreign policy.

Whatever the reasons — whether it was Moscow’s unhappiness with our responses to its economic cooperation proposals, or the continuing misgivings about our commitment to anti-terrorism efforts, or whether a neighbour of ours played a role in it — the truth will remain a mystery.

Putin’s aborted visit did, however, recall another similar episode that has become part of folklore. This relates to the widely held perception that Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan failed to respond to an invitation to visit the Soviet Union, instead opting to travel to Washington. This allegedly brought Pakistan into the US camp in the on-going Cold War and initiated decades of mistrust between Pakistan and the Soviet Union.

My postings in Moscow and long association with the Soviet desk in Islamabad, led me to explore the genesis of this widely-held belief. I was encouraged to do so by Foreign Minister Agha Shahi. Briefly, the records revealed that the Soviet Union’s first intimation of an invitation was made orally on June 2, 1949, by the Soviet charge d’affaires (CDA) in Tehran to Ambassador Ghazanfar Ali Khan, who conveyed it to the prime minister, while pointing out that “it came after the US president’s invitation to Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru”. The invitation was accepted within a week and its announcement created quite a stir in London and Washington.

Since Moscow had suggested the prime minister’s arrival on August 15, it was pointed out that his absence on the nation’s Independence Day would not be appropriate. His preference, therefore, would be to leave Karachi the next day and, transiting through Tehran, arrive in Moscow on August 17. The Soviets responded only on July 28, but suggested that the visit be postponed to end of October or early November, as August was a holiday season in the country. Pakistan conveyed its acceptance of the new dates and proposed November 5. However, on August 14, our ambassador in Tehran was informed by the Soviet CDA that Moscow was now of the opinion that the visit be organised after establishment of formal diplomatic relations and posting of diplomatic representatives. Moscow was told that Pakistan was already in the process of identifying a suitable candidate to head our mission in Moscow. Mr Shuaib Qureshi was thereafter designated to be our first ambassador to Moscow.

Correspondence between the two capitals indicate diminishing interest by the Soviets in the prime minister’s visit, as they not only took a long time in according agre’ment to Mr Qureshi, but showed no interest in posting their own ambassador to Pakistan. Soon thereafter, the Soviet ambassador in New Delhi suggested another postponement.

In the meantime, the Indian press carried a number of stories indicating Moscow’s declining interest in Liaquat’s visit, while in Pakistan, a lobby led by Ghulam Mohammad openly began questioning the wisdom of good ties with the Soviet Union. Even after the US extended an official invitation to Liaquat, the latter instructed that the Moscow visit be pursued and in April, 1950, Ghazanfar Ali raised this issue again with the Soviet CDA. Liaquat’s seriousness about the Moscow visit is evident from the fact that even the official entourage was finalised. Incidentally, it included a Major Yaqub Khan, who was to later become ambassador to Moscow and also a most distinguished foreign minister.

This was a time when Cold War considerations were paramount in identifying potential friends and foes, with invitations used to extend influence in critical areas of the globe. Did the US and the Soviet Union engage in invitation diplomacy primarily to woo India? We may never know till Moscow opens up its archives. In any case, as Sir Winston Churchill stated as far back as 1939, Russia “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by parsuram »

September 28th, 2012(Duniyanews on youtube, if someone can, please post link here):

Mengal puts forward Mujibur Rehman's six point demands (for east pakistan, 1971) for Balochistan at Supreme Court of Paki Stan . As he states, "there is no difference between Balochistan's six point demands and what Mujib demanded for Bengal. In joint appearance with Nawaz Sharif outside the Court, he warned that Pakis should not make the same mistake with the Baloch as they did with the Bengalis. According to him, better to say "khuda hafiz" with civility so they can meet in a civil way with " aslam aleokum" in the future. X posted on Baluchistan forum.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Lilo »

Image

:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by parsuram »

Folks, it is important to closely follow the rapid developments in Balochistan. The situation is fluid and fast moving. There is a lot of information on Youtube reposts from paki tv talking heads, as well as numerous docu-news items covering the balochistan conflict. Listen to fringe idiots like ex ISI & army types - you all know who they are. their paranoia has increased a few notches. The sense I get from listening to all those folks & their balochistan chatter on paki tv is that constitutional Balochistan secession is a done deal by Zardari and the US- if zardari wins upcoming elections. Otherwise, secession will be bloody. Detailed documentaries from swiss, danish, german, french tv channels are also there on youtube. Thing is, the baloch feudals have finally got on board the secession band wagon. According to more than one reporter, the paki flag is hard to find in balochistan, which has become a very dangerous place for non baloch , particularly pakjabis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by RajeshA »

Georgia has moved into the Russia column, so the Northern Distribution Route has become tentative. That either means the Americans try to forge a new way through Baluchistan or they would cave in to Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by ranjbe »

Even UberRape Zafar Hilaly has finally thrown in his towel. A lot of Rona Dhona From The News:
therefore, disappointing to see the song and dance being made about the impending arrival of Putin and the dejection its cancellation caused. As if Putin’s mere presence would have sufficed to show that we had a clever response up our sleeve to the falling out with Washington.

Whether or not Putin eventually comes won’t make the slightest difference to our current strategic isolation, as Russia does not count for all that much, either economically or militarily. Domestic capital is fleeing; and Russia’s outmoded industrial infrastructure produces nothing of real significance. If Russia is thriving it is not because of the high value of its products or its industrial skills or even armaments’ technology but exports of its natural resources, chiefly oil and gas to Europe.

However, with America now self-sufficient in (shale) gas, world gas prices are headed for a steep fall. Militarily, too, Russia is not a shadow of the super power the Soviet Union was. Even the hugely out gunned Chechens are giving Moscow a hard time and about the only foe the Russians can realistically threaten is puny Georgia. In other words, Russia is not a military or economic power even remotely on a par with the US and therefore hardly a replacement of America as a strategic partner for Pakistan even if, by some miracle, that were to happen.

Similarly, it’s foolish to give the impression that China can replace the strategic prop we had hoped the Americans would provide. China has changed strikingly in many ways and so too how it views her relationship with Pakistan; and it’s a pity that we have not told our people that rather than go on and on about how ‘deep’ and ‘high’ is our friendship.

There is an ugly side to interstate relations that the public never gets to know and which involves giving the impression that the two friends can count on each other, come what may. Actually, when the chips are down, not many countries are prepared to support you, if you are in the wrong, not even China, which understandably did nothing when we landed ourselves in the self created mess in East Pakistan

Of course, that’s not to say that we should unreservedly pursue American goals for the region because that would be folly. America’s security interests and ours are not only divergent but, in some cases, like towards China and India, antagonistic. But even if we could paper that over, a new and potentially explosive difference about which we can do nothing is the antagonism Washington and, even more, the American public has developed for Muslims and which predictably is fully reciprocated in the Muslim world
In fact, the only historical experiences that the West shares with the Islamic world are crusades, colonialism, imperialism and military intervention. Nor could the two faiths be more dissimilar. Christianity in the West is a once a week duty and nothing worth fighting for. Islam, on the other hand, infuses all of life and is lived daily, treasured and dutifully even joyfully defended to the death.

With this lack of positive cultural, historical and religious commonalities and the palpable mistrust and suspicions which exist as a result of the American interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan, augmented by anti-Muslim hate incidents, and the defence of these despicable acts under the rubric of ‘Freedom of Speech’, the denigration of Islam and the Muslim society as medieval, barbarous and assigning a far higher worth to non-Muslim lives than Muslim, all ensure that the hostility will take generations to overcome.


Meanwhile, we should reconcile ourselves to the fact that America prefers to go its own way without caring about what we feel. The two erstwhile friends have grown apart and really don’t like being around each other any longer, and that’s becoming obvious almost by the day.

Hence, when Obama said he had no time in New York to meet with Zardari, no one here was really surprised. Obama had acted in an identical manner during the Nato conference in Chicago, when he made it clear that all that Zardari merited from him (for proving uncooperative over the GLOC standoff) was a fleeting handshake.


What happened in New York must have grated a mite more when the Pakistani delegation discovered that Obama had nevertheless found the time to spend half an hour with, of all people, the Yemeni head of state notwithstanding his ‘busy’ schedule. Obama could not have possibly made his scant regard for Zardari and the country he leads more obvious. But it’s not only Zardari towards whom Obama has an aversion it’s also Pakistan – ‘the ally from hell’ as those around him refer to us.

Given the ills that confront Pakistan, our strategic isolation, the terrorism that has engulfed the nation, an economy in meltdown and a government at sixes and sevens when it comes to tackling bad governance and corruption, active and intensified American hostility could prove the proverbial last straw that breaks the camel’s back.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... -isolation
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

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From Tribune (news article - posted in full) MFN will not happen anytime soon so why are we making concessions in Trade to TSP.
Liberalised trade: for better or for worse?
By Farhan Zaheer - Published: October 3, 2012

The manufacturing sector has more concerns over liberalised trade with Pakistan’s neighbours, compared to the trading sector.

KARACHI: Which sector of Pakistan is more insecure about liberalising trade policy with India and Afghanistan: manufacturing or trading?

According to the results of a recent survey, analysts and private sector officials believe that the manufacturing sector has more concerns over liberalised trade with Pakistan’s neighbours, if compared to the trading sector (importers, retailers, wholesalers etc).

Surprisingly, however, a very high proportion of retail business entities (48%) consider that granting the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India will have a negative impact on their business, while a mere 7% feel that the result on business will be positive.

These revelations come in the results of the bi-annual ‘Business Confidence Index’ (BCI) survey, conducted recently by the Overseas Investors Chambers of Commerce and Industry (OICCI). OICCI conducts this study every six months through an independent research company, in order to gauge sentiments of key stakeholders regarding different business-related matters. The survey takes responses from businesspersons from varied backgrounds: from the heads of multinationals, to owners of small businesses in busy city districts.

Such strong opposition from the retail sector to liberalised trade comes as a surprise to some analysts, as it has widely been perceived that traders would have been more interested in opening up trade with India. The OICCI Secretary General M Abdul Aleem is one such analyst.

“The result is surprising, because one can understand the concerns of the manufacturing sector – which may feel the heat once trade is eased with India,” he said, “but the concerns of the retail sector have caught us unawares.”

Since the survey includes many small retailers, one can assume that a majority of them have concerns about India’s MFN status and/or the Afghan Transit Trade Agreement, he added.

In response to a question, Aleem said that it is true that the organised sector of Pakistan is more likely to support the MFN status to India than the unorganised sector. However, there are some organised sectors – like the auto industry – which may not be partial to free trade with India. Some sectors also have concerns about non-tariff barriers, which may affect Pakistani exports to India, he added.

The respondents were given five options for possible effects the MFN status to India and Afghan transit trade agreement will have on their businesses. The options were ‘very positive’, ‘positive’, ‘neutral’, ‘negative’ or ‘very negative’. Almost half of all retailers surveyed said the results will be negative or very negative.

Furthermore, “The majority of all business sector entities believe that the MFN status to India and the Afghan Transit Trade Agreement will have an adverse effect on businesses,” the survey said.


Muzammil Aslam, managing director of Emerging Economics Research, said that traders are nonetheless more in favour of liberal trade with neighbours, especially with India, if compared to manufacturers – who have repeatedly expressed concerns on the MFN status being given to India.

“We should open up our economy for regional trade,” said Aslam. “We are already competing with China, which is much more competitive than India. Therefore, we must not look at short-term problems, but focus on long-term economic growth.”

Khurram Schehzad, analyst at AlHoqani Securities, said that the manufacturing and trading concerns may persists for a few years on the MFN and Afghan Transit Trade Agreement, “Just as we saw strong opposition when World Trade Organization (WTO) laws were being implemented in Pakistan.”

“Regional trade is always crucial for economic growth,” he continued. “Liberal trade with our neighbours will help our economy the most, because we have India and China –the two fastest growing economies of the world.”

“Liberal trade helps competition and improves efficiency in industries, which will eventually strengthen our economy in a growingly competitive world,” he concluded.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (news article - posted in full)
Lending a helping hand: Russia to help Pakistan revive sick units
By Zafar Bhutta - Published: October 3, 2012

MoUs signed for rehabi­litati­ng Pak Steel, railwa­ys.
$300m to $500m may be provided by Russia for expanding production capacity of the steel mill.


ISLAMABAD: Though Russian President Vladimir Putin has put off a planned visit, Pakistan and Russia have signed three memoranda of understanding (MoUs) for rehabilitating sick units – Pakistan Steel Mills, Pakistan Railways and thermal power plants, a signal to the world that cooperation between the two countries is going on.

Formal contracts in this regard will be signed by governments of the two countries.

However, there was no progress on constructing the pipeline for the Iran-Pakistan gas import project during talks held with a visiting Russian delegation.

The delegation, comprising heads of prominent Russian companies, has been on a visit to Pakistan since September 30 and the trip will end on October 3. The two countries have held discussions about the prospects of cooperation in the fields of railways, water and power and the framework cooperation agreement with Genco Holding Company and Pakistan Steel Mills.

Addressing a press conference here on Tuesday along with Chief Trade Representative of Russia in Pakistan Yuri M Kozlov, Board of Investment (BOI) Chairman Saleem H Mandviwalla said Pakistan was also going to revise the Bilateral Investment Treaty (BIT) with Russia in an effort to enhance trade and promote cooperation in expansion of the steel mill, improvement of railways and conversion of thermal power plants from oil to coal.

The Russian ambassador was also scheduled to join Mandviwalla at the press conference, but he did not turn up.


Mandviwalla acknowledged that Pakistan and Russia had been negotiating deals on defence and Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline, but these subjects were not touched during the current visit of the Russian delegation. However, he stressed that the signing of MoUs suggested that planned cooperation between the two countries was continuing.

“Russia will provide assistance amounting to $300 to $500 million for expanding production capacity of the steel mill to 1.5 million tons,” Mandviwalla said. A formal agreement will be signed in two months.

“It will deal mainly with cooperation in modernisation, reconstruction and expansion of production capacity of Pakistan Steel Mills,” he said, recalling Russian firm Tyazhpromexport had helped Pakistan establish the mill.

After signing the MoU, a Russian company will conduct a technical audit of the mill, he added. Calling the mill a symbol of Pakistan-Russia bilateral relations, he said the expansion and rehabilitation project would surely lead to economic development in the country.

In order to upgrade Pakistan Railways, a delegation of Russian firm Transmashholding has already visited Pakistan and conducted meetings with the railway secretary in April. During the talks, they were informed about tenders for supply of passenger coaches for the railways and the need for exploring opportunities to cooperate with Pakistani manufacturers in the production of coaches. The Russian firm also invited officers of Pakistan Railways to visit their facilities in Russia.

In the water and power sector, Russia has expressed interest in investing in many projects keeping in view the power shortage in Pakistan.


The MoU between Russia’s Technopromexport and Pakistan’s Genco Holding Company will help convert Muzaffargarh plants into ones based on imported coal and help construct New Jamshoro Power Plant having planned capacity of 500 to 600 megawatts. Russia is also interested in Tarbela-4 and Keyal Khwar projects.

Speaking on the occasion, the chief trade representative of Russia stressed that Pakistan and Russia had conducted successful discussions and the signing of MoUs would help enhance mutual cooperation.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by RamaY »

I have a sekunian twist to above news item...

Perhaps it is MMS idea that Russia instead of India that will make Pakistan open north-south corridor.

It is to satisfy the secular silent majority of Pakistan only as the guru of WANA says. Pakistan's terrorism as state policy and Islamic jihad are for external farce projection only.

Soon GCC and west to join hands with Syrian National (Rebel) Army to sign a pipeline project from Tussia (yes, Turky is going to occupy Russia soon with its best in the world air farce) to India thru Pakistan. This will be called King-Bin-Noballi pipeline in the honor of KSA's clown prince as KSA is going to invest $72b in this infrastructure project.

The 5 million strong Indian expat community to work on this project as slaves ooops volunteers in this secular project.

This is all the vision and strat-agy of MMS and UPA3 under Rahul Bhutto.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by sanjaykumar »

With this lack of positive cultural, historical and religious commonalities and the palpable mistrust and suspicions which exist as a result of the American interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan, augmented by anti-Muslim hate incidents, and the defence of these despicable acts under the rubric of ‘Freedom of Speech’, the denigration of Islam and the Muslim society as medieval, barbarous and assigning a far higher worth to non-Muslim lives than Muslim, all ensure that the hostility will take generations to overcome.


Some perceptive comments from Hilaly, very unusual for their realism, from a Pakistani. The bolded part is no hyperbole, I have come to the same conclusion. Politics, especially when mixed with non-white countries, peoples and ideologies are not fit for polite conversation in the West.

Just as before the Muslim problem, white people would call blacks the N word when they were comfortable with me, now they are questioning Islamic culture openly. It was initially Jewish people, then perhaps what will surprise Indians, self identified Christians. Anybody with a religious identity in the west can be assumed to be hostile to the Muslim perspective.

In fact much before the present willingness to share this opinion, I remember a stunning, lovely woman, elegant and charming, ascribe violence in the Muslim lands as due to 'their culture'.

And I fully agree that this dialectic will take at least two possibly three generations to reach its logical conclusion.


Of course it is all India's doing. If Indian had been more susceptible to Pakistani threats, the latter would not have needed to cultivate Islamic freedom fighters either in Afghanistan or later in Kashmir, nor to seek lebensraum in Taliban Afghania.

In a very real sense India has managed to outsource its Pakistan problem to the world at large and more specifically outsource it as the Islamic problem to the West.

Of course I remember reading Bharat Verma predict as much 12 or more years ago in Indian Defence Review.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

FWIW

The situation is Balochistan is not particularly dire. What has been happening though is that the resistance is proving surprisingly resilient. This is partly due to lack of political solution: the civvies are weak to push a Balochistan policy forward against the army's wishes. In any case, they are pre-occupied with numerous threats to their power from various quarters, ISI, army, Judiciary, ISI-pasand political parties ityadi.

The other reasons are the level of discontent and partly due to people like Afghanistan willing to shelter the leadership (Karma is a *****. Pakis shelter yahoos for attacks on Kabul and Kandahar, Afghans have every right of self defence, creating leverage if necessary).

This resilience has caused much bloodshedding and increased brutality from both sides. With increasing brutality comes increasing scrutiny. Paki supreme court is asking questions about missing people, Nawab Bughti's killing (by musharraf, who first claimed it was air attack and bombing, later claimed he committed suicide) is being rehashed in the media. Increasing scrutiny means increasing scrutiny internationally (by concerned people, rabble rousers, people looking for leverage against Pakistan ityadi) and Pakistan is out of friends internationally.

The big Paki miscalculation is that they can threaten, beg and squeeze out baksheesh, but they cannot make friends this way. If India or someone else succeeds in taking up the Baloch matter at the UN, the number of friends Pakis can gather is dwindling by the day. Afghans are pissed, Unkil is pissed, Russies are looking for payback. Only friends who would turn up are the Cheenis and the Saudis, each of whom would want their pound of flesh (Pakis have charged them a pretty penny already).

Hence the desperation, reaching out to India, reaching out to Russies ityadi.

There is a long way to Balochistan seceding, but if regional and non-regional powers play their cards right, they can keep the problem on the boil to teach Pakis a lesson and squeeze their testimonials.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by shiv »

BijuShet wrote:From Tribune (news article - posted in full)
Lending a helping hand: Russia to help Pakistan revive sick units
I am happy to hear this news.

Could someone please remind me when the 50 JF-17s that China was to deliver were delivered? A Pakistani news portal had released this news about 18 months ago IIRC pakisarefukinliars
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

^^^
Pakis have correctly concluded that future arms from Unkil are in peril. Arms under munna treaty will flow freely only if Pakis continue to be a munna, and the munna has been behaving badly of late.

They can negotiate all they want with the Russians. Even after decades of arms procurements, treaties at the highest level and support at the UN etc, Russies still squeeze India's testimonials for money when it comes to arms. PVN singlehandedly saved Sukhoi to make sure that Yeltsin won the elections, but still the russies are charging us an arm and a leg for Sukhoi upgrades and T90, Vikramaditya ityadi.

Pakis have no hard cash. So they have to pledge hours of GUBO* to the Russians to get anything in return.

I wish Pakistan well in this new path of friendship and hopefully Pakistan and Russia build a strong bond.

We can then have popcorn and see the bear ravishing the proxitute in return for a few scraps. Hopefully we all will get to enjoy the sight of Russian drones over FATA dispatching Chechen "non-state actors"

*Russians could start with demands for turning over Chechen "non-state actors" who have become "guest mujahideen" in Paki no go areas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Shaashtanga »

Citadel of I-slam.

Image
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

The screenshot and video is graphic, consider yourself warned

http://www.crisisbalochistan.com/second ... istan.html
This video was submitted to the UN Working Group on Missing Persons that recently visited Pakistan to investigate enforced disappearances and extrajudicial killings in Pakistan (See links below for news related to the UN visit).

Source says uniforms appear to be those worn by Pakistan's Frontier Corps (FC).

The road is said to be similar to one located in the town of Mastung, but the source is unsure. A NATO supply route runs through Mastung.

The trucks in the background appear to be Pakistani trailers--the kind stockpiled by the Pakistani army and used to transport NATO supplies. The manufacturer appears to be Hino--a big manufacturer in Pakistan. The brown Toyota pickup also appears to be Pakistani stock.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Prem »

sanjaykumar wrote:
In a very real sense India has managed to outsource its Pakistan problem to the world at large and more specifically outsource it as the Islamic problem to the West. Of course I remember reading Bharat Verma predict as much 12 or more years ago in Indian Defence Review.


This was one the main objectives of ABV Sarkar and they did accomplish this task very efficently. We took few hits in the process but Poaq went downhill while simultanously going down on Unkil and Chinkil many times. Paki now trying to provide similar services to Putin but he is not ready to open his zipper yet.Russia wants Poaqers to observe Idda period before enjoying the bliss and hear Poaqwish.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Suppiah »

ranjbe wrote:and about the only foe the Russians can realistically threaten is puny Georgia. In other words, Russia is not a military or economic power even remotely on a par with the US
That is not a fair statement...Putin-pot managed to convince Nauru and Tuvalu to recognize South Ossetia.. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Suppiah »

ranjbe wrote:Christianity in the West is a once a week duty and nothing worth fighting for. Islam, on the other hand, infuses all of life and is lived daily, treasured and dutifully even joyfully defended to the death. [preferably of kufrs]

... the denigration of Islam and the Muslim society as medieval, barbarous
doesn't his own earlier para provide the answer and the reasons?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Nandu »

I don't know which faction this Shamshad Ahmad belongs to. Ayesha Siddiqa says establishment. But it is clear they have the knives drawn for Hina.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... ublic-life
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by SSridhar »

IMO, the Balochistan issue is not too threatening for Pakistan's comfort. There are two reasons, again IMO. One is that the Balochis, fearless and determined as they are against an overwhelming Pakistani Army, lack charismatic political and military leaders. After the assassination of Akbar Bugti, they do not have a leader of his stature. Sir Ataullah Khan mengal is quite old and inactive in politics these days. His son, Sardar Akhtar Mengal recently did talk of 'separation' in the Supreme Court. But, he was exiled and though it has since been revoked in recent years, he still prefers to stay in the UK. The Balochi resistance forces also suffer from a lack of military advisors, unlike the Taliban who are over-supplied in this department and are freely helped by retired (and even serving) army officers. The lack of representation by the Balochis in the PA could be the major reason. The second reason is that there is a significant Pashtun population in Balochistan who are being used by the PA to keep the Balochi resistance force in check.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by SSridhar »

Nandu wrote:I don't know which faction this Shamshad Ahmad belongs to. Ayesha Siddiqa says establishment.
He is the ex-Foreign Secretary. He once said, "Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a ´ breeding ground ´ for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. "

Added later: Just read the article. He seems to follow BRf.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

Also according to GP he flat out denied that there was an organization called LeT in Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Suppiah »

^^ which is why the powers that be, including the Sun god, should handle the Pashtun + Baloch issue together..if promised help in uniting Pashtun provinces of TSP with Afghan side, it will ensure both get what they want..actually everyone will get what they want - Americans, India, Afghan, Balochistan..

Rump Pakjab+Sind can be easily destroyed over time..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan wrote:Also according to GP he flat out denied that there was an organization called LeT in Pakistan.
Many Pakistanis say one thing in power and the opposite when out of it. Nobody can beat Ms. BB in that.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Suppiah »

From the article..
ancestrally privileged and heavily painted females with designer outfits
Krishna! Is this what the old man fell for?! :D
State Madeline Albright on her visit to Pakistan chose to wear an inappropriately short skirt
The most cruel punishment for Pakistanis I can think of...looking at not-too-bright in short skirts..
Last edited by Suppiah on 03 Oct 2012 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by partha »

Shamshad Ahmad was involved in several rounds of talks just like Jaswant Singh with Strobe Tabott post nuke tests. In his book Engaging India, Talbott compares Indian and Pakistani diplomats. He praises Indian diplomats for their civility in negotiations and says that Pakistanis were very undiplomatic in their behavior but does not mention the names of Pakis. Probably this guy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Baikul »

BijuShet wrote:From Tribune (opinion piece - posted in full)
............In any case, as Sir Winston Churchill stated as far back as 1939, Russia “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.
And as Mohammad Ali Jinnah, 400% not be outdone, so astutely stated as far back as in 1947, Pakistan "is a piddle wrapped by a mistry inside an enema".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Suppiah »

Pakbaric animalistan is a bigger market for American and Israeli flags than America itself!!

http://dawn.com/2012/10/03/us-film-prot ... ag-makers/
Jamaat-ud-Dawa, blacklisted by the United Nations and the United States as a front for terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, says it has a “special team” dedicated to making US and Israeli flags for demonstrations
Tallel would now have to invest in TSP and open a flag making factory..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by parsuram »

When (not if) the Baloch Leave the pakis, pakis & their stan become irrelevant. Baloch will provide access to Afghanistan. The Baloch I have seen and heard on youtube posts have actually evolved to a very credible force (military, political) in a fairly short time period (I started drawing attention to the "BLA" about 7-8 years ago on this forum). They have come a long way from attacks on gas pipelines. The world & its trade & commerce will bypass this stinking mass of subhumans called the paki, leaving it to perish by numerous exotic epidemics, diseases and disasters. For civilized humanity, it cannot happen soon enough. Sad that India has no people of any vision to reach out to the Baloch with innovative proposals that will be mutually beneficial. American presence in the region will not really lower the threat level for the Indian Republic.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by rajanb »

@parsuram

i think the jury is out on this. Post 2014, I think the opression by the terror arm of the ISI will increase. So the Balochis will find it difficult to separate. Unless they build up the momentum and break before then.

International opinion will not help, because NATO is practically raising its arms in defeat.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by SSridhar »

parsuram wrote:Sad that India has no people of any vision to reach out to the Baloch with innovative proposals that will be mutually beneficial.
We shouldn't be surprised if we hear, a decade later, that a neo-Gujral doctrine for Balochistan was enacted after July 16, 2009.
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