Understanding Islamic Society

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ramana
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 04 Feb 2015 19:54

I was reading a book on "Islam and Slavery in South Asia" by Indranil Bhattacharya and Richard Eaton. The latter is a well known apologist for Islam in Deccan and Bengal.

The key fact I got was Islam extirpated a large number of Ethiopians as slaves and inducted them into Indian sub-continent. They are called habshis.

So the West extirpated natives from west coast of Africa and Islam did the same to North East coast of Africa.

Need to study the twin de-populations that Africa suffered.

While the West has done mea culpa, Islam has been hiding under the poverty tag.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby KLNMurthy » 04 Feb 2015 20:03

ramana wrote:I was reading a book on "Islam and Slavery in South Asia" by Indranil Bhattacharya and Richard Eaton. The latter is a well known apologist for Islam in Deccan and Bengal.

The key fact I got was Islam extirpated a large number of Ethiopians as slaves and inducted them into Indian sub-continent. They are called habshis.

So the West extirpated natives from west coast of Africa and Islam did the same to North East coast of Africa.

Need to study the twin de-populations that Africa suffered.

While the West has done mea culpa, Islam has been hiding under the poverty tag.

"Habshi" is a common Hindi/Urdu word for Africans. It is cognate with the English "Abyssinian."

There is a well-known locality in Hyderabad called Habssiguda near Osmania U area.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 04 Feb 2015 20:14

True that. My point was the role of Islam in inducting Africans as slaves into India.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Paul » 04 Feb 2015 21:02

Malik Kafur, the redoubtable Habshi from Ahmednagar played a yeomen in developing guerilla strategies and trained Marathas under him is using them against Mughal armies.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 04 Feb 2015 23:38

You mean Malik Amber of Bijapur.

Malik Kafur was a Hindu convert who was a general during Allauddin Khilji.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby A_Gupta » 05 Feb 2015 00:03

^^^
Some excerpts from the Cambridge history of India:
(Volume III,published 1928 )

( around 1481, about Bengal )
... Fath Shah was a wise and beneficient ruler, but incurred the hostility of the African slaves who thronged the court by curbing their insolence and punishing their excesses...

( In 1486 the malcontents )
..took advantage of the absence from court,..., of Indil Khan, who, though an African,was a loyal subject of Fath Shah and an able military commander to compass the king's death.

( around 1493, Bengal)
Among Husain's earliest reforms was the expulsion from the kingdom of all Africans, ... whose presence was a danger to the throne. During the 17 years preceding Husain's accession three kings of this race had occupied the throne ... The exiles in vain sought an asylum in Delhi and Jaunpur, where they were too well known to be welcome, and most of them ultimately drifted to the Deccan and Gujarat, where men of their race had for many years been largely employed.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 05 Feb 2015 00:09

So the thing to understand is Africans were to Indian sultans what Turks were to Arab-Persio Sultans. A real pain in the butt. Literally and figuratively.

A_Gupta note the racist undertones of the Cambridge History. The Brits are truly racist and don't bother to hide it.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Feb 2015 01:04

ramana wrote:True that. My point was the role of Islam in inducting Africans as slaves into India.

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but Arabian Nights--reflecting the golden age of Islam blah blah is full of stomach-turning epithets of hatred and loathing for black Africans. I would guess that Europeans picked up at least some of their racism from Arabs during the knowledge transfer that occurred during Europe's Dark Ages.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 05 Feb 2015 02:42

ramana wrote:I was reading a book on "Islam and Slavery in South Asia" by Indranil Bhattacharya and Richard Eaton. The latter is a well known apologist for Islam in Deccan and Bengal.

The key fact I got was Islam extirpated a large number of Ethiopians as slaves and inducted them into Indian sub-continent. They are called habshis.

So the West extirpated natives from west coast of Africa and Islam did the same to North East coast of Africa.

Need to study the twin de-populations that Africa suffered.

While the West has done mea culpa, Islam has been hiding under the poverty tag.

Islam pioneered slave trade, in Africa and elsewhere. Plenty of African slaves found in Iran also.
In Africa, the slaves were taken not just from East Africa, but from far West also.
In Islam, enslavement and Islamization go hand-in-hand -- as per the scriptures itself, non-Arabs are brought towards Allah in chains. It was enumerated as one of the mercies of Allah towards the Arabs who accept Allah and his Prophet. The slaves, who then become mawalis.
Thus, just like guns-and-Bibles, swords-and-sufis went hand in hand as part of Islamist colonization policy.

Here's an example of an Afro-Iranian - descendent of black slaves in Iran. Today, they are a discriminated minority whose work is mainly to play a certain set of wind instruments and dance at wedding parties, or act like clowns to entertain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_iiHVN7x5k



Racism in Middle Eastern countries against blacks can be far worse than Europe. An Iranian-American friend of mine told me that when he was a young boy in Iran in the 60's, an Afro-American was once jogging down a bylane in Tehran, and he and his friends promptly began hurling racist epithets - and stones.

Iranian literature, such as the Abu Moslem Nameh, are full of racist abuse and ridicule against dark skinned peoples. I had written about this on BRF:
viewtopic.php?p=1245941#p1245941

Such literature has its own genre in Iran. In the above epic, the Iranian 'good' Muslim hero needs to build a warchest to fight off the Arab 'bad' Muslim villians. So he goes to a place of dark-skinned people - some scholars say Malabar coast of India, others say Ethiopia. There, the chief's daughter immediately falls for his good looks and says, "daddy! daddy! I want to marry him." So the chief sets a simple test for the hero, who no doubt passes it with flying colours. Then he collects the booty and more, and makes off with it - leaving behind a crying and brokenhearted girl and her father. This is supposed to be comedy - because it then goes into a description of her ugliness - her dark skin, her non-silky hair, her misshapen breasts, etc., and so our hero is naturally disgusted by them and in an extra-hurry to get the hell out of there - with all their wealth, of course. And so on.

Throughout the ages, Arabs, Iranians and Turks also competed with one another to procure wives from the Caucasus or Eastern Europe.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Prem » 06 Feb 2015 07:25


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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby deejay » 06 Feb 2015 09:02

^^^ Jhujar saab this video throws new light to my understanding. Great catch. An EJ going full blast against Islam.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2015 10:44

X-Post...
Theo_Fidel wrote:The great khan had something to do with China as well.

The islamic armies caught the world at a very vulnerable moment. The great persian empires were no more, the romans were no more, carthage was gone, the egyptians were squabbling, India was vulnerable. In Martin Weirs "History of Warfare", he says 2 major battles were all it took for the muslim armies to conquer lands from Morrocco To Krgyzstan. Yarmuk in 636, where they beat the remanant Roman army through some luck and Kadisiya in 637 where they beat the Persian army through moving skirmishes. That's it, and they found the land from Morocco to Persia open to their soldiers. He says the conquest of civilized Persia was a bad mistake as it immediately set muslims on a civil war it still has not recovered from.


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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Prem » 07 Feb 2015 03:14

Punjabi is the best language to preach Izlam
From Daddy to Darling, from Bahu Beti to Begum ,Abba to Bubba
Baap Baap Naa Raha, Baap Rakib Bann Gya .. Man , he can sing

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby JE Menon » 07 Feb 2015 17:59

Tarik Fatah is a really courageous man... I'm proud to say he is in some way associated with India.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrCbWbnW954

This takes serious balls. As usual, he pulls NO punches.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Tuvaluan » 07 Feb 2015 22:24

For speaking out and calling out islamic fascism on the rise, Tarek Fatah is uniformly despised by the pakis and "liberal" Indian muslims with a special ache for pakistan...and as he says in the video, the white-guilt-ridden "liberal" crowd in Canada calls him a "racist" and "islamophome" much like the jihad supporting "moderate muslims" -- just like the american "liberal" types like Christine fair. His point about educated muslim women being willing slaves of the men in their family is a point that is not easily seen from the outside -- women's freedom movements won't be touching that crowd any time soon.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 18 Feb 2015 09:47

X-post from STFU-P thread:

Gus wrote:stumbled on this podcast. quite interesting..lots of details
http://www.globaldispatchespodcast.com/ ... tine-fair/

the ISI got a hold of her book prospectus before it was even published, did not like what she wrote in there and tried to bully/intimidate. cfair did not back off and she gets threatened with gang rape by an entire regiment.

her response? - will it be infantry or cavalry? as there will be a qualitative and a quantitative effect on her gang rape experience. :lol:

reg pak - it is a turd, i won't coat chocolate on it and call it a donut. they are turd. they take our money and kill our troops.

oh and sherry is her drink buddy. :D


Interesting point - Fair says that, although a lot of the material in her book is an "open secret", what got the ISI mad at her was the fact that she conducted interviews in Urdu and published them. Apparently the ISI is very sensitive about Urdu language propaganda - it is OK with anti-Pakistani propaganda in English...but not Urdu... (ramana ji)

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby sunnyP » 10 Mar 2015 23:14

Wasn't sure where to put this - hope it's okay here.

Why a Saudi award for televangelist Zakir Naik is bad news for India’s Muslims
Zakir Naik’s popularity amongst India’s middle-class Muslims points to a debilitating Salafi conservatism taking root.


Of the thousands of videos featuring superstar Muslim televangelist, Zakir Naik, a particularly interesting one is where he talks about another superstar, Shah Rukh Khan. On a set which looks like a cross between that off a late-night talk show and a 1980s discotheque, Naik speaks rather admiringly of his fellow Mumbaikar. But, a questioner asks him, isn’t Khan a non-believer? Naik, benignly says he doesn’t know: you see, he doesn’t go by hearsay; however, Khan’s views, he maintains, are more in consonance with the “true” teachings of Islam than many so-called believers.

To hold up Shah Rukh Khan – who openly claims he does not read the namaaz five times a day, has married a non-Muslim and entertains people on screen for a living – as a model Muslim, seems a rather liberal thing to do. Another video shows Naik warn against using public disorder and killing of innocents to protest blasphemy. “Is there death in Islam for apostasy?” asks another person from the Maldives (Naik’s reach is truly global). “No,” answers Naik, even if you can see him getting a bit flustered. Naik’s views on triple talaaq are more liberal than the Indian state’s: he discourages it. Naik encourages inter-faith dialogue: he frequently quotes from non-Islamic scripture and debates with evangelists from other faiths.

Cracks begin to show

It is easy to get mesmerised by Naik and his elephantine memory – he quotes from religious texts almost at will. He’s preaching not in a kurta-pajaama but a suit and uses machine gun English, not Urdu. It’s all very impressive, frankly and he puts on quite a show. But then showmanship is part of the core skill-set of a televangelist. Peer closer and you'll begin to see the cracks.

Yes, blasphemy doesn’t warrant public disorder but Naik is quite clear that in an Islamic state, the “blasphemer” needs to be punished as per the Sharia. There is no death penalty for apostates in Islam, Naik claims, until, the apostate starts to preach his new religion: then he can be put to death. Shah Rukh Khan might be a good chap, but it is quite clear that his singing and dancing, Naik pronounces, is “haraam”. And almost every non-Islamic religious scripture he quotes is either to disprove it or prove it to be in consonance with his view of what Islam says in the first place. In fact, in an Islamic state run as per Naik’s rules, the preaching of any religion other than Islam will be banned. And he doesn’t leave Muslims alone either, taking great care to disparage Shia and Ahmadi beliefs.

More gems: Americans swap wives at will because they eat pigs which also swap their wives (Naik, I presume, only eats animals who’ve been faithful to their partners). Islam allows a man to marry multiple women because "in the USA, there are more women than men". He was factually wrong here because the US has a sex ratio of more than 1; however, what was maybe most confounding was why he chose the US as Islam’s ideal testing ground, especially since, he claims, it’s the Jews who control it.

A pukka Salafi conservative

His views on Osama bin Laden are worth quoting: "If Osama bin Laden is terrorizing the enemies of Islam, I am with him. If he is terrorizing America, the biggest terrorist, then I am with him.”
The attacks of 9/11, Naik says, were executed by George Bush and was such a hatchet job that “even a fool would know this”. This view caused his visa to the UK and, later, Canada to be rejected. Muslim women should be covered with an all-enveloping burqa: only their face and wrists should be seen. This is Naik’s solution to sexual assault.

The list goes go on and on, but it’s quite clear that beneath that ill-fitting suit, beats the heart of a pukka Salafi conservative. Not surprisingly, the Salafi mothership, Saudi Arabia recently acknowledged Naik’s “services to Islam”, awarding him with the King Faisal International Prize.

This prize to Naik should ring the alarm bells as to how deep Salafism has spread its roots. Zakir Naik is not a preacher from South Punjab in Pakistan or an Afghan who grew up under the Taliban or even a Saudi citizen. He’s from Mumbai. Not only geography but his socioeconomic background serves to surprise: he’s a qualified doctor. Yet, he is the world’s leading Salafi evangelist.

Popularity amongst English-speaking Muslims

Not only that, Naik enjoys massive popularity amongst India’s English-speaking Muslims. Having left the Urdu-chhaap (Urdu speaking) mullah, railing against the evils of not keeping a beard, behind, the middle-class Muslim switches on his television set and allows Naik’s Salafism to stream into his living room.

It is one of the conundrums of the modern age: prosperity and education have not led automatically to liberalism. On the other hand, using the tools modernity has provided it, religion, in its most conservative form, has redoubled its efforts to take control of hearts and minds. Naik uses his television channel, Peace TV, to reach a massive 100 million viewers. His language, English, gives him access to people across India and indeed the planet: people from Malaysia, Bangladesh and Pakistan and, of course, the Maldives can all tune into his Salafism.

This phenomenon is, of course, not limited to Islam. Hindutva’s core support base is amongst the educated middle classes and evangelical Christianity originates from the world’s only superpower. Modernity, rather than ending the worst forms of religious conservatism, has become a megaphone for it. The Zakir Naik brand of “modern” conservatism strikes a particularly harsh blow to Indian Muslims, who have anyway been the victims of their own inwardness for close to 150 years now.





http://scroll.in/article/712341/Why-a-S ... 9s-Muslims

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 22 Mar 2015 21:09

WSJ:



http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-reformati ... ding_now_1



THE WALL STREET JOURNAL



THE SATURDAY ESSAY
Why Islam Needs a Reformation
To defeat the extremists for good, Muslims must reject those aspects of their tradition that prompt some believers to resort to oppression and holy war



By

AYAAN HIRSI ALI



Updated March 20, 2015 10:00 a.m. ET



“Islam’s borders are bloody,” wrote the late political scientist Samuel Huntington in 1996, “and so are its innards.” Nearly 20 years later, Huntington looks more right than ever before. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, at least 70% of all the fatalities in armed conflicts around the world last year were in wars involving Muslims. In 2013, there were nearly 12,000 terrorist attacks world-wide. The lion’s share were in Muslim-majority countries, and many of the others were carried out by Muslims. By far the most numerous victims of Muslim violence—including executions and lynchings not captured in these statistics—are Muslims themselves.

Not all of this violence is explicitly motivated by religion, but a great deal of it is. I believe that it is foolish to insist, as Western leaders habitually do, that the violent acts committed in the name of Islam can somehow be divorced from the religion itself. For more than a decade, my message has been simple: Islam is not a religion of peace.



When I assert this, I do not mean that Islamic belief makes all Muslims violent. This is manifestly not the case: There are many millions of peaceful Muslims in the world. What I do say is that the call to violence and the justification for it are explicitly stated in the sacred texts of Islam. Moreover, this theologically sanctioned violence is there to be activated by any number of offenses, including but not limited to apostasy, adultery, blasphemy and even something as vague as threats to family honor or to the honor of Islam itself.



It is not just al Qaeda and Islamic State that show the violent face of Islamic faith and practice. It is Pakistan, where any statement critical of the Prophet or Islam is labeled as blasphemy and punishable by death. It is Saudi Arabia, where churches and synagogues are outlawed and where beheadings are a legitimate form of punishment. It is Iran, where stoning is an acceptable punishment and homosexuals are hanged for their “crime.”

As I see it, the fundamental problem is that the majority of otherwise peaceful and law-abiding Muslims are unwilling to acknowledge, much less to repudiate, the theological warrant for intolerance and violence embedded in their own religious texts. It simply will not do for Muslims to claim that their religion has been “hijacked” by extremists. The killers of Islamic State and Nigeria’s Boko Haram cite the same religious texts that every other Muslim in the world considers sacrosanct.

Instead of letting Islam off the hook with bland clichés about the religion of peace, we in the West need to challenge and debate the very substance of Islamic thought and practice. We need to hold Islam accountable for the acts of its most violent adherents and to demand that it reform or disavow the key beliefs that are used to justify those acts.

As it turns out, the West has some experience with this sort of reformist project. It is precisely what took place in Judaism and Christianity over the centuries, as both traditions gradually consigned the violent passages of their own sacred texts to the past. Many parts of the Bible and the Talmud reflect patriarchal norms, and both also contain many stories of harsh human and divine retribution. As President Barack Obama said in remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last month, “Remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.”



Yet today, because their faiths went through a long, meaningful process of Reformation and Enlightenment, the vast majority of Jews and Christians have come to dismiss religious scripture that urges intolerance or violence. There are literalist fringes in both religions, but they are true fringes. Regrettably, in Islam, it is the other way around: It is those seeking religious reform who are the fringe element.

Any serious discussion of Islam must begin with its core creed, which is based on the Quran (the words said to have been revealed by the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad) and the hadith (the accompanying works that detail Muhammad’s life and words). Despite some sectarian differences, this creed unites all Muslims. All, without exception, know by heart these words: “I bear witness that there is no God but Allah; and Muhammad is His messenger.” This is the Shahada, the Muslim profession of faith.

The Shahada might seem to be a declaration of belief no different from any other. But the reality is that the Shahada is both a religious and a political symbol.



In the early days of Islam, when Muhammad was going from door to door in Mecca trying to persuade the polytheists to abandon their idols of worship, he was inviting them to accept that there was no god but Allah and that he was Allah’s messenger.



After 10 years of trying this kind of persuasion, however, he and his small band of believers went to Medina, and from that moment, Muhammad’s mission took on a political dimension. Unbelievers were still invited to submit to Allah, but after Medina, they were attacked if they refused. If defeated, they were given the option to convert or to die. (Jews and Christians could retain their faith if they submitted to paying a special tax.)

No symbol represents the soul of Islam more than the Shahada. But today there is a contest within Islam for the ownership of that symbol. Who owns the Shahada? Is it those Muslims who want to emphasize Muhammad’s years in Mecca or those who are inspired by his conquests after Medina? On this basis, I believe that we can distinguish three different groups of Muslims.

The first group is the most problematic. These are the fundamentalists who, when they say the Shahada, mean: “We must live by the strict letter of our creed.” They envision a regime based on Shariah, Islamic religious law. They argue for an Islam largely or completely unchanged from its original seventh-century version. What is more, they take it as a requirement of their faith that they impose it on everyone else.

I shall call them Medina Muslims, in that they see the forcible imposition of Shariah as their religious duty. They aim not just to obey Muhammad’s teaching but also to emulate his warlike conduct after his move to Medina. Even if they do not themselves engage in violence, they do not hesitate to condone it.



It is Medina Muslims who call Jews and Christians “pigs and monkeys.” It is Medina Muslims who prescribe death for the crime of apostasy, death by stoning for adultery and hanging for homosexuality. It is Medina Muslims who put women in burqas and beat them if they leave their homes alone or if they are improperly veiled

The second group—and the clear majority throughout the Muslim world—consists of Muslims who are loyal to the core creed and worship devoutly but are not inclined to practice violence. I call them Mecca Muslims. Like devout Christians or Jews who attend religious services every day and abide by religious rules in what they eat and wear, Mecca Muslims focus on religious observance. I was born in Somalia and raised as a Mecca Muslim. So were the majority of Muslims from Casablanca to Jakarta.

Yet the Mecca Muslims have a problem: Their religious beliefs exist in an uneasy tension with modernity—the complex of economic, cultural and political innovations that not only reshaped the Western world but also dramatically transformed the developing world as the West exported it. The rational, secular and individualistic values of modernity are fundamentally corrosive of traditional societies, especially hierarchies based on gender, age and inherited status.

Trapped between two worlds of belief and experience, these Muslims are engaged in a daily struggle to adhere to Islam in the context of a society that challenges their values and beliefs at every turn. Many are able to resolve this tension only by withdrawing into self-enclosed (and increasingly self-governing) enclaves. This is called cocooning, a practice whereby Muslim immigrants attempt to wall off outside influences, permitting only an Islamic education for their children and disengaging from the wider non-Muslim community.

It is my hope to engage this second group of Muslims—those closer to Mecca than to Medina—in a dialogue about the meaning and practice of their faith. I recognize that these Muslims are not likely to heed a call for doctrinal reformation from someone they regard as an apostate and infidel. But they may reconsider if I can persuade them to think of me not as an apostate but as a heretic: one of a growing number of people born into Islam who have sought to think critically about the faith we were raised in. It is with this third group—only a few of whom have left Islam altogether—that I would now identify myself.

These are the Muslim dissidents. A few of us have been forced by experience to conclude that we could not continue to be believers; yet we remain deeply engaged in the debate about Islam’s future. The majority of dissidents are reforming believers—among them clerics who have come to realize that their religion must change if its followers are not to be condemned to an interminable cycle of political violence.

How many Muslims belong to each group? Ed Husain of the Council on Foreign Relations estimates that only 3% of the world’s Muslims understand Islam in the militant terms I associate with Muhammad’s time in Medina. But out of well over 1.6 billion believers, or 23% of the globe’s population, that 48 million seems to be more than enough. (I would put the number significantly higher, based on survey data on attitudes toward Shariah in Muslim countries.)

In any case, regardless of the numbers, it is the Medina Muslims who have captured the world’s attention on the airwaves, over social media, in far too many mosques and, of course, on the battlefield.

The Medina Muslims pose a threat not just to non-Muslims. They also undermine the position of those Mecca Muslims attempting to lead a quiet life in their cultural cocoons throughout the Western world. But those under the greatest threat are the dissidents and reformers within Islam, who face ostracism and rejection, who must brave all manner of insults, who must deal with the death threats—or face death itself.

For the world at large, the only viable strategy for containing the threat posed by the Medina Muslims is to side with the dissidents and reformers and to help them to do two things: first, identify and repudiate those parts of Muhammad’s legacy that summon Muslims to intolerance and war, and second, persuade the great majority of believers—the Mecca Muslims—to accept this change.

Islam is at a crossroads. Muslims need to make a conscious decision to confront, debate and ultimately reject the violent elements within their religion. To some extent—not least because of widespread revulsion at the atrocities of Islamic State, al Qaeda and the rest—this process has already begun. But it needs leadership from the dissidents, and they in turn stand no chance without support from the West.

What needs to happen for us to defeat the extremists for good? Economic, political, judicial and military tools have been proposed and some of them deployed. But I believe that these will have little effect unless Islam itself is reformed.

Such a reformation has been called for repeatedly at least since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent abolition of the caliphate. But I would like to specify precisely what needs to be reformed.

I have identified five precepts central to Islam that have made it resistant to historical change and adaptation. Only when the harmfulness of these ideas are recognized and they are repudiated will a true Muslim Reformation have been achieved.

Here are the five areas that require amendment:

1. Muhammad’s semi-divine status, along with the literalist reading of the Quran.
Muhammad should not be seen as infallible, let alone as a source of divine writ. He should be seen as a historical figure who united the Arab tribes in a premodern context that cannot be replicated in the 21st century. And although Islam maintains that the Quran is the literal word of Allah, it is, in historical reality, a book that was shaped by human hands. Large parts of the Quran simply reflect the tribal values of the 7th-century Arabian context from which it emerged. The Quran’s eternal spiritual values must be separated from the cultural accidents of the place and time of its birth.



2. The supremacy of life after death.
The appeal of martyrdom will fade only when Muslims assign a greater value to the rewards of this life than to those promised in the hereafter.



3. Shariah, the vast body of religious legislation.
Muslims should learn to put the dynamic, evolving laws made by human beings above those aspects of Shariah that are violent, intolerant or anachronistic.



4. The right of individual Muslims to enforce Islamic law.
There is no room in the modern world for religious police, vigilantes and politically empowered clerics.



5. The imperative to wage jihad, or holy war.
Islam must become a true religion of peace, which means rejecting the imposition of religion by the sword.



I know that this argument will make many Muslims uncomfortable. Some are bound to be offended by my proposed amendments. Others will contend that I am not qualified to discuss these complex issues of theology and law. I am also afraid—genuinely afraid—that it will make a few Muslims even more eager to silence me.

But this is not a work of theology. It is more in the nature of a public intervention in the debate about the future of Islam. The biggest obstacle to change within the Muslim world is precisely its suppression of the sort of critical thinking I am attempting here. If my proposal for reform helps to spark a serious discussion of these issues among Muslims themselves, I will consider it a success.

Let me make two things clear. I do not seek to inspire another war on terror or extremism—violence in the name of Islam cannot be ended by military means alone. Nor am I any sort of “Islamophobe.” At various times, I myself have been all three kinds of Muslim: a fundamentalist, a cocooned believer and a dissident. My journey has gone from Mecca to Medina to Manhattan.

For me, there seemed no way to reconcile my faith with the freedoms I came to the West to embrace. I left the faith, despite the threat of the death penalty prescribed by Shariah for apostates. Future generations of Muslims deserve better, safer options. Muslims should be able to welcome modernity, not be forced to wall themselves off, or live in a state of cognitive dissonance, or lash out in violent rejection.

But it is not only Muslims who would benefit from a reformation of Islam. We in the West have an enormous stake in how the struggle over Islam plays out. We cannot remain on the sidelines, as though the outcome has nothing to do with us. For if the Medina Muslims win and the hope for a Muslim Reformation dies, the rest of the world too will pay an enormous price—not only in blood spilled but also in freedom lost.

This essay is adapted from Ms. Hirsi Ali’s new book, “Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now,” to be published Tuesday by HarperCollins (which, like The Wall Street Journal, is owned by News Corp). Her previous books include “Infidel” and “Nomad: From Islam to America, A Personal Journey Through the Clash of Civilizations.”



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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 24 Mar 2015 07:10

In Islam, the hardcore is the active component dispersed among the general populace. The 'moderates' are the passive component dispersed among the general populace. The 'pragmatists' form the bleeding edge of pragmatic politics at any given time in history. In that pursuit, they make compromises one way or another (swinging to extreme or moderate) based on internal and external considerations.

This is based on the Qur'anic principle of Istislah, which also gives the word Maslahah (maslahat) - which means 'strategic compromise' based on circumstances - "haalaat se samjhauta karna". Here are some basics of the shari'ah of Islamic "compromise" politics:

Maslahah - the fiqh of Islamic "compromise" politics

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby KJo » 24 Mar 2015 16:53

Putin has the guts to say this openly.

Image

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 02 Apr 2015 02:51

Old post in nukkad....
lakshmikanth wrote:SaiK garu,

I have been studying a few books on Jihadi Islam. I have come to realize that Kuran/Ahadith/Sharia is a guidebook for rapid, constant and complete revolution where a neo-elite replaces an established elite. Then they become the established elite, who are then hunted down by another set of neo-elites. Anyone can be a neo-elite in Islam, as long as you have the money for propaganda and a set of spin masters aka mullahs with you (this way it does not differ much from the west).

Islamic victimization can be engaged by any neo-elite looking for revolution at any time. Hence, the ideology can lie dormant like a volcano and wait for the right time to errupt.

This animal is alien to India. It is so alien, that Indian Hindus to this day do not understand the danger posed by Islam. On top of this the Indian Hindus are drunk on a distorted version of the western idea of "sekoolarism", an idea that has a working versio already inbuilt in Indian culture.

If Indians really understood Islam, then they would have gladly chopped down the 90,000 war criminals into mince meat. for that is the only solution for tackling an Islamic adversary. They only understand a credible/proven threat of complete, swift and heinous violence that will turn their limbs and appendages into organic paste.

Medieval ideologies need Medieval punishments.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby lakshmikanth » 02 Apr 2015 22:41

:mrgreen: This forum is like an elephant.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 03 Apr 2015 00:17

what's the point of hiding treasure in Nukkad?

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby RamaY » 03 Apr 2015 00:25

ramana wrote:Old post in nukkad....
lakshmikanth wrote:SaiK garu,

I have been studying a few books on Jihadi Islam. I have come to realize that Kuran/Ahadith/Sharia is a guidebook for rapid, constant and complete revolution where a neo-elite replaces an established elite. Then they become the established elite, who are then hunted down by another set of neo-elites. Anyone can be a neo-elite in Islam, as long as you have the money for propaganda and a set of spin masters aka mullahs with you (this way it does not differ much from the west).

Islamic victimization can be engaged by any neo-elite looking for revolution at any time. Hence, the ideology can lie dormant like a volcano and wait for the right time to errupt.

This animal is alien to India. It is so alien, that Indian Hindus to this day do not understand the danger posed by Islam. On top of this the Indian Hindus are drunk on a distorted version of the western idea of "sekoolarism", an idea that has a working versio already inbuilt in Indian culture.

If Indians really understood Islam, then they would have gladly chopped down the 90,000 war criminals into mince meat. for that is the only solution for tackling an Islamic adversary. They only understand a credible/proven threat of complete, swift and heinous violence that will turn their limbs and appendages into organic paste.

Medieval ideologies need Medieval punishments.


I agree with the definition of Jihadi Islam.

But this animal is not alien to India/Bharat. Bharat has seen million heads of this animal and they used to be called Asuras/Rakshasas. And they were dealt accordingly resulting in the 33 million Gods (ways to defeat that animal).

The problem is that it has become "wrong" to understand appreciate the Bharatiya way to approach the new animals in the block. This problem is some how made into our Constitution in the name of Secularism. Now even calling the animal an animal is non-Secular and the Secularised Hindus start self-flaggalation.

You remove Secularism from Indian social-consciousness and you will find 33 million ways to cull these animals.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby member_28638 » 03 Apr 2015 03:03

147 killed in Al-Shabaab attack on Kenya university

April 02, 2015 05:08

he death toll has risen to at least 147 people after the siege of Garissa University College in Kenya. The attack on the institution by masked Al-Shabaab gunmen, an Al-Qaeda splinter group, has ended, according to the government’s disaster agency.

The siege lasted nearly 15 hours. When it concluded, according to Reuters Interior Minister Joseph Nkaissery told Kenyan media: "The operation has ended successfully. Four terrorists have been killed."

In the early morning, about five gunmen from the Islamist militant group Al Shabaab stormed a Kenyan university campus during morning prayers, killing a number students and staff, and taking others hostage. Police and soldiers surrounded the college, and exchanges of gunfire have been going on all day.

....

http://rt.com/news/246121-kenya-attack- ... niversity/

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby member_28638 » 04 Apr 2015 18:44

Backward, uncivilized, barbaric, uncultured and savage thugs! But, of course, that is what these subhumans did to India centuries ago.

==========================

Video shows ISIL razing historic site in Iraq’s Hatra

Apr 4, 2015

The ISIL has posted a video online purportedly showing the terrorists destroying a major world heritage site in Iraq's ancient city of Hatra.

The footage posted online late Friday shows the ISIL members smashing the walls and shooting with assault rifles at invaluable statues at an archaeological site in the city of Hatra in Iraq’s Nineveh Province.

The video, published on a website frequently used by ISIL, shows Takfiri terrorists using sledgehammers and pickaxes to reduce ancient statutes to crumbles. Other militants use Kalashnikov rifles to shoot at the priceless objects at the archaeological site, which is recognized as a World Heritage by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).

The site was attacked last month by ISIL militants, according to residents and local officials. No clear estimate has been made on the extent of damage on the historic place as the city is located in the territory which is under the control of ISIL.

Parts of the video are dedicated to statements in Arabic by ISIL members who apparently say they destroyed the site because people worshiped it instead of God. The terrorist group has always tried to use religion as a cover for its murderous, inhuman activities in Iraq and Syria, where it has killed thousands of civilians and security forces over the past four years.

ISIL has already destroyed other notable sites in the territory north of Iraq. Back in March, the terrorists bulldozed the 3,000-year-old city of Nimrud, one of the world's most important historical sites. The destruction triggered worldwide condemnation, with the United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon calling it a “war crime.”

Another video in late February showed ISIL terrorists destroying the ancient artifacts at a major museum in the northern city of Mosul, the capital of Nineveh and one of the group’s major strongholds in Iraq. The terrorists also burned hundreds of priceless books and manuscripts in Mosul Library and Mosul University in January.

Mosul and the surrounding areas were once occupied by the ancient Mesopotamians, who established a great civilization in the lands between Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The artifacts in the Nineveh museum, which were mostly from the archaeological site in Hatra, were supposed to have great cultural and historic significance.

The Takfiri terrorists have already razed to the ground a number of mosques in Syria and Iraq, many of them belonging to the early years of the Islamic civilization. They have also destroyed tombs belonging to revered Shia and Sunni figures.

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/04/0 ... raqs-Hatra

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2015 07:42

Agnimitra, Read this and make sense out of itt.

Mohammad Hashim Kamali and Tariq Ramadan, "The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam: The Qur'anic Principle of Wasatiyyah"

English | ISBN: 0190226838 | 2015 | 320 pages |


In The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam, leading Islamic law expert Mohammad Hashim Kamali examines the concept of wasatiyyah, or moderation, arguing that scholars, religious communities, and policy circles alike must have access to this governing principle that drives the silent majority of Muslims, rather than focusing on the extremist fringe. Kamali explores wasatiyyah in both historical/conceptual terms and in contemporary/practical terms. Tracing the definition and scope of the concept from the foundational sources of Islam, the Qu'ran and Hadith, he demonstrates that wasatiyyah has a long and well-developed history in Islamic law and applies the concept to contemporary issues of global policy, such as justice, women's rights, environmental and financial balance, and globalization. Framing his work as an open dialogue against a now-decades long formulation of the arguably destructive Huntingtonian "clash of civilizations" thesis as well as the public rhetoric of fear of Muslim extremism since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Kamali connects historical conceptions of wasatiyyah to the themes of state and international law, governance, and cultural maladies in the Muslim world and beyond. Both a descriptive and prescriptive meditation on a key but often neglected principle of Islam, The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam provides insight into an idea that is in the strategic interest of the West both to show and practice for themselves and to recognize in Muslim countries.


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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby RajeshA » 16 Apr 2015 17:07

From Wikipedia

Mohammed bin Laden divorced Hamida soon after Osama bin Laden was born. Mohammed recommended Hamida to Mohammed al-Attas, an associate. Al-Attas married Hamida in the late 1950s or early 1960s, and they are still together. The couple had four children, and bin Laden lived in the new household with three half-brothers and one half-sister.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2015 23:41

Is Mohammad Atta related in a tribal way to Mohammed-al-Attas?

I know former is Egyptian but is it the al-Attas tribe?

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 17 Apr 2015 03:54

ramana wrote:Agnimitra, Read this and make sense out of itt.

Mohammad Hashim Kamali and Tariq Ramadan, "The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam: The Qur'anic Principle of Wasatiyyah"

In The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam, leading Islamic law expert Mohammad Hashim Kamali examines the concept of wasatiyyah, or moderation, arguing that scholars, religious communities, and policy circles alike must have access to this governing principle that drives the silent majority of Muslims, rather than focusing on the extremist fringe. Kamali explores wasatiyyah in both historical/conceptual terms and in contemporary/practical terms. Tracing the definition and scope of the concept from the foundational sources of Islam, the Qu'ran and Hadith, he demonstrates that wasatiyyah has a long and well-developed history in Islamic law and applies the concept to contemporary issues of global policy, such as justice, women's rights, environmental and financial balance, and globalization. Framing his work as an open dialogue against a now-decades long formulation of the arguably destructive Huntingtonian "clash of civilizations" thesis as well as the public rhetoric of fear of Muslim extremism since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Kamali connects historical conceptions of wasatiyyah to the themes of state and international law, governance, and cultural maladies in the Muslim world and beyond. Both a descriptive and prescriptive meditation on a key but often neglected principle of Islam, The Middle Path of Moderation in Islam provides insight into an idea that is in the strategic interest of the West both to show and practice for themselves and to recognize in Muslim countries.


ramana ji, this is related to a post I made above on this page:
Agnimitra wrote:In Islam, the hardcore is the active component dispersed among the general populace. The 'moderates' are the passive component dispersed among the general populace. The 'pragmatists' form the bleeding edge of pragmatic politics at any given time in history. In that pursuit, they make compromises one way or another (swinging to extreme or moderate) based on internal and external considerations.

This is based on the Qur'anic principle of Istislah, which also gives the word Maslahah (maslahat) - which means 'strategic compromise' based on circumstances - "haalaat se samjhauta karna". Here are some basics of the shari'ah of Islamic "compromise" politics:

Maslahah - the fiqh of Islamic "compromise" politics

In Sufism, this golden rule is supposed to lead to 'balance' at the "nuqtah-i-'atf", "point of favour", wherein one achieves the grace of Allah which raises one's 'maqaam' (spiritual status). This point of balance is supposedly at the 'center' of every ontological plane, through which the 'axis' of the Deen (qutb-ud-deen) passes. At a communal level, this happens via a dialectic process. It was using such parallel concepts that 'Ali Shari'ati also blended Marxist-Hegelian ideology with Islamism in Iran.

In terms of Islamic law and relations with non-Muslims, a soft and 'moderate' stance has been brought in at times like after the Mongol invasion, and at other times of prosperity to facilitate trade and expansion via soft power.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2015 08:49

So its snake oil in short!

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2015 08:52

After fall of Soviet Union and defection of PRC to capitalism the disaffected people everywhere have found Islam as a vehicle to channel their disaffection. Hence you see well oaf youth joining ISIS.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 18 Apr 2015 06:26

Agnimitra wrote:
ramana wrote:I was reading a book on "Islam and Slavery in South Asia" by Indranil Bhattacharya and Richard Eaton. The latter is a well known apologist for Islam in Deccan and Bengal.

The key fact I got was Islam extirpated a large number of Ethiopians as slaves and inducted them into Indian sub-continent. They are called habshis.

So the West extirpated natives from west coast of Africa and Islam did the same to North East coast of Africa.

Need to study the twin de-populations that Africa suffered.

While the West has done mea culpa, Islam has been hiding under the poverty tag.

Islam pioneered slave trade, in Africa and elsewhere. Plenty of African slaves found in Iran also.
In Africa, the slaves were taken not just from East Africa, but from far West also.
In Islam, enslavement and Islamization go hand-in-hand -- as per the scriptures itself, non-Arabs are brought towards Allah in chains. It was enumerated as one of the mercies of Allah towards the Arabs who accept Allah and his Prophet. The slaves, who then become mawalis.
Thus, just like guns-and-Bibles, swords-and-sufis went hand in hand as part of Islamist colonization policy.

Here's an example of an Afro-Iranian - descendent of black slaves in Iran. Today, they are a discriminated minority whose work is mainly to play a certain set of wind instruments and dance at wedding parties, or act like clowns to entertain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_iiHVN7x5k



Racism in Middle Eastern countries against blacks can be far worse than Europe. An Iranian-American friend of mine told me that when he was a young boy in Iran in the 60's, an Afro-American was once jogging down a bylane in Tehran, and he and his friends promptly began hurling racist epithets - and stones.

Iranian literature, such as the Abu Moslem Nameh, are full of racist abuse and ridicule against dark skinned peoples. I had written about this on BRF:
viewtopic.php?p=1245941#p1245941

Such literature has its own genre in Iran. In the above epic, the Iranian 'good' Muslim hero needs to build a warchest to fight off the Arab 'bad' Muslim villians. So he goes to a place of dark-skinned people - some scholars say Malabar coast of India, others say Ethiopia. There, the chief's daughter immediately falls for his good looks and says, "daddy! daddy! I want to marry him." So the chief sets a simple test for the hero, who no doubt passes it with flying colours. Then he collects the booty and more, and makes off with it - leaving behind a crying and brokenhearted girl and her father. This is supposed to be comedy - because it then goes into a description of her ugliness - her dark skin, her non-silky hair, her misshapen breasts, etc., and so our hero is naturally disgusted by them and in an extra-hurry to get the hell out of there - with all their wealth, of course. And so on.

Throughout the ages, Arabs, Iranians and Turks also competed with one another to procure wives from the Caucasus or Eastern Europe.

Afro-Iran - the unknown minority
A trip to a place which is inhabited and dominated by the descendants of slaves and traders from Africa.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Paul » 23 Apr 2015 22:48

Image

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 28 Apr 2015 06:35

X-post from STFU-P thread:

RajeshA wrote:
Atri wrote:@nomaankhan111

@fispahani @bilalfqi A quick lesson to learn for @husainhaqqani , Insaan ban jao ya Goli khao

I have a poochh regarding this phrase that I have emboldened. Insaan ban jao (become a human being) - is this phrase used as "submit to allah"?

I had few Sulla trolls on twitter bugging me with this phrase - insaan ban jao ya khuda ka maar khao something like that.

Now I know Islam considers non-muslim as sub-human and worthy of being killed. But is this phrase now mainstreamed? This is second time I have come across this phrase.

What group of people use this? Which firqa? Is this tablighi jamaat speaking or what?


Actually insaan refers to more like "being humane" rather than just being human, which is aadmi! Though it is interesting that the phrase is being used like this. In this sense, Insaan is meant to mean "being intelligent" or "one in his senses"!
"Insaan ban jao" i.e. "Coming to one's senses" here means "to know what is good for oneself"! So it is a threat!

No, I have posted on this before [link]. In the Qur'an, the word "naas" ("people") and its derivative 'insaan' refers only to those who have imaan, i.e., the muttaqeen/momineen. This is confirmed by all including the earliest commentaries.

For instance, an aayat #14 in the 2nd surah itself:
wa idhaa qeela lahum amanoo qamaa aman an-naas...
"And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not."

Here's "people" refers to Muslims, and the bad guys here ("they") refer to the munafiqeen.

As per fiqh, non-Muslims are less than human - or at least lesser humans. Now within Islam, a human is a lesser station than, say, a muttaqeen, etc...so that is what is understood when one says "pehle insaan bano", etc. It is the first grade of Islam. Non-Muslims haven't yet reached that stage.

This is also why during the freedom struggle, an Islamic scholar and leader (I forget his name) said of Gandhi ji - he is a saintly kind of man, but by the Qur'an and Hadith I have to say that he is still lower than a Muslim criminal and rapist because he has not taken the shahadah (oath of allegiance to Allah and Muhammad).

So while different people may use the phrase "pehle insaan bano" in different ways, its theological origins should be clear.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 28 Apr 2015 08:37

+108

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby RajeshA » 28 Apr 2015 12:31

Agnimitra ji,

If one goes by that requirement for "Insaan", that one needs Imaan, then most Muslims would not qualify either for "Insaan", as Islam (submission) is considered by some as only the first step, the second being Imaan (faith), and the third being Ihsan (perfection)!

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby Agnimitra » 28 Apr 2015 18:20

RajeshA ji you are now talking at a sufi level! :mrgreen:
Yes the Quran uses the alternate term "bashar" also for a lower grade of humanity, also believers.

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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby ramana » 18 May 2015 20:57

From TSP thread....

{quote="wig"}

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/tragedy-d ... -ismailis/

some sidelights on ismailis
On Wednesday, a bus carrying about 60 people was on its way from Safoora Chowk in Karachi to Ayesha Manzil Ismaili centre. Six gunmen, dressed in police uniform and riding motor bicycles stopped the bus. They climbed on the bus and one of them yelled “kill them all”. Hell was let loose on innocent people of Ismaili faith. Forty-five were left dead and 13 injured in the attack. The driver was also shot dead, and an injured and bleeding passenger drove the ill-fated bus to the nearest hospital where the injured were admitted for treatment.
In the history of terrorism and communal/sectarian violence in Pakistan, this is the first time that gunmen have made the Ismailis target of their bullets. The dastardly act stands in diametrical opposition to the peaceful and non-violent community that the Ismailis are. The tragic incident brings to my mind six massacres perpetrated by Kashmir terrorists on innocent Kashmiri Pandits during the early phases of terrorism.

Two Pakistan-based terrorist groups, the Pakistan splinter group called Jundullah, and Islamic State (IS), both said they had carried out the attack. However, a little later, Tehreek-i-Taliban-i-Pakistan, that is fighting Pakistan army in Waziristan also claimed responsibility of the attack. This shows that in liquidating Shia community in Pakistan, the main terrorist groups are in complete unison.
Jundullah (literally meaning the “Legions of Allah”) is a splinter group of Pakistani Taliban specifically assigned the duty of carrying Sunni Jihadi fire and brimstone across the western border of Pakistani province of Baluchistan into Iranian part of Baluchistan in the Iranian border town of Zahedan.


On 14 February 2007, Jundullah terrorists had sneaked into Iranian border town of Zahedan and gunned down 18 Shia Iranian Revolutionary Guards almost in identical manner in which they killed 41 Ismaili Shias. Five days later, Iranian authorities announced the execution of one Nasrollah Shanbezehi. He was hanged in public at the site of the bombing. He was said to have been tried and sentenced by a branch of the Revolutionary Committee.
A day later, on 15 February, Jundullah claimed responsibility for the attack. The Iranian government then arrested five suspects, two of whom were carrying camcorders and grenades when they were arrested, while the police killed the main “agent” of the attack. Among the arrestees was Said Qanbarzehi, a Balochi, who was hanged in Zahedan prison three months later. He had been sentenced to death at the age of 17 along with six other Balochi men. In all 68 persons were indicted and given capital punishment by the Iranian government. Ever since, Jundullah has not had the guts to embark on another killing spree inside Iranian territory.
Who are the Ismailis? Students of Islamic studies have to know the history of Ismailis because it is one of the most important Shia sects that initiated the great intellectual movement of reason and rationality in Islamic society in the 10-11th century A.D.
Ismaili Shias, in common with other Shia Muslims, revere Ali, son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad, but they also revere the Imam Ismail who died in 765 AD. They consider the house of Aga Khan descending from Imam Ismaili after whom they are called Ismailis. They interpret the Koran symbolically and allegorically.
They live in more than 25 different countries
Spiritual leader Prince Karim Aga Khan is a philanthropist and business magnate. He gives his name to bodies including a university, a foundation, and the Aga Khan Program for Islamic Architecture at Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He has encouraged Ismailis settled in the industrialized world to contribute to those communities
Ismailis consider the Aga Khan their hereditary spiritual guide. They mostly inhabit the Himalayan region of northern Pakistan, but also have a significant presence in Karachi where they run businesses and charities, and tend to use community-built accommodation and transport.

A decade ago, I had the opportunity of visiting Badakhshan Mountain ranges in Southern Tajikistan in connection with a seminar organized by the Aga Khan Foundation in the southern town of Khorog with a sizeable population of Ismailis holding steadfast to their traditional culture. It was during this seminar that I had the opportunity of meeting and talking to Prince Aga Khan for a while.

Contribution of Ismailis to rational sciences in Islamic civilization has not been surpassed so far despite the fact that this contribution began as early as the 10th-11th century A.D. Central Asian and Iranian thinkers of those times had drunk deep from the fountain of Greek philosophers, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, Hippocrates, Plotinus and others whose renowned works in Greek were translated by the polyglots of the day into Arabic. These Arabic texts of Greek masters generated the urge for logic and reason among the Muslim scholars of Central Asia and Iran. Thus began the age of reason in Islamic history, and a host of Ismaili scholars led by great philosophers like Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Al-Farabi, al-Kindi, Abul Haitham and others laid great stress after Greek philosophers, on logic as the key to all knowledge. They went to the extent of saying that delicate and sensitive theosophical matters like prophet-hood, scriptures, mythological lore, miracles etc. all could be debated through the instrument of logic.

Obviously, when Ismailis dragged logic to that extent, the orthodoxy retaliated and it was with the emergence of Al-Ghazali in 12th century A.D that opposition to logic and the process of reason began and blind faith attained dominance with the Muslims. Supported by the muscle of feudal structure of Muslim society of Iran, Khurasan and Central Asia of those days, the era of reason receded but the struggle for supremacy of reason was carried surreptitiously by the Ismailis for a long time.


In fact the turmoil and conflict that we find within the Islamic fold today is the spill-over of the conflict that began in 12th century. Modern times being the age of advanced science and technology, have exacerbated the conflict and the orthodoxy feels that it can survive through the unleashing of violence only.


This is why the Jundullah and TTP bear a grudge against the Ismailis. They targeted a large number of Ismailis in Karachi. But given the international influence and reach of Prince Aga Khan and the great humanitarian works that his Foundation is doing in many parts of the world including Karachi, the massacre is bound to cause ripples in Pakistan politics. This is the reason why the Prime Minister of Pakistan and the Army chief both lost no time in flying into Karachi to take stock of things.

Interesting to note is that it was the Aga Khan Foundation unit in the University of Karachi that had deputed a team of surveyors to examine the possibility of establishing overland connection between Pakistan and Tajikistan. Even behind the contemplated project of supply of Rogan electricity in Tajikistan to Pakistan is the hand of Aga Khan.

It is a travesty that a people and their organizations committed to rendering support for the development of Pakistan and other societies are made the target of bullets by the terrorists.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan


During the latter stages of the First Anglo-Afghan War (in 1841 and 1842), Hasan Ali Shah and his cavalry officers provided assistance to General Nott in Kandahar Province and also to General England in his advance from Sindh to join Nott.[citation needed] He was awarded the status of "Prince" by the British government's representatives in India and became the only religious or community leader in British India granted a personal gun salute[citation needed]; When Hasan Ali Shah, the first Aga Khan, came to Sindh, which is now in Pakistan, from Afghanistan, he and his army were welcomed by Mir Nasir Khan of Baluchistan.[citation needed] In 1861, the Aga Khan won a court victory in the High Court of Bombay in what popularly became known as the Aga Khan Case, securing his recognition by the British government as the head of the Khoja community. In 1887, the Secretary of State for India acting through the Viceroy of India, formally recognized the title Aga Khan


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imamate_(N ... i_Doctrine)

With respect to their spiritual nature, the Imams are considered incarnations of the divine word as well as conduits between God and the Ummah. Based on this belief, the Nizari Ismaili concept of Imamate differs from that of the Twelver's concept in that the Nizari Imams possess the authority to interpret the Quran according to the times and change or even abrogate any aspect of "The Way/The Path" (Sharia) of Islam.

The 49th and presently living Nizari Imam is Prince Shah Karim Al Hussaini Aga Khan (IV



The English hoped to have a Islamic leader under their control.

Same as Blunt (Pakjabi) and Lawrence(Sunni Arabs) projects.

A_Gupta
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Jun 2015 20:48

Not sure what thread to post this on:
http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/repor ... th-2095270
Islam and Apostasy in India.


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