Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

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SriKumar
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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby SriKumar » 06 Jan 2013 09:09

Anantha wrote:Sri
I never implied you said such a thing, if so apologies. I am only in agreement with what you said . A big chunk of media and people have wanted to keep the name of the victim hidden and that is why I am saying in general that there is no shame in attaching a name and face to the victim. We are already weakened by these acts there is no room for me to make a well meaning person like you look bad.

Thanks for clarifying. Am deleting my earlier post as promised.
There are cases where a rape victim wants to keep her name hidden, while the trial is on etc. etc. It happen all the time in the US. But this case is vastly different....and has national implications. While I would agree that her family has every right to keep her name private if this is what they wanted; in my very humble opinion, her father (perhaps instinctively) did the right thing by releasing her name.
Last edited by SriKumar on 06 Jan 2013 09:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2013 09:10

Before some folks come and say they might be in name only, let me say I believe all Hindus are Brahmins by birth.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby suryag » 06 Jan 2013 09:11

none of the MSMs are picking up the identity that has been revealed ...

Anantha
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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Anantha » 06 Jan 2013 09:20

Notice, the name of the victim is all over the web and reputed international newspapers. But not in desi TOIlet, congressi times and other assorted DDM outlets. The Maino-congi power is in full flow.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby vasu raya » 06 Jan 2013 09:21

Ramanaji, the school records from rural areas aren't reliable, and that shouldn't be the technical issue in this case since the crime is committed willfully which is to mean even if the culprit is biologically under-aged, he knows exactly what he was doing and he was in the company of adults, and did worse stuff than them.

While biological age from ossification records might trap him in this case, in a general sense Juveniles have to be evaluated based on mental maturity than biological age, the latter could be a legal loop hole and the police at this point may not be sure of a conviction which is why they will not want to add a communal angle by revealing names, just a guess.

The ref to Gen VK Singh was the courts argued that since he availed many benefits of his military career based on the DOB at entry of service, it will be binding on him. So, in the same breadth this crime has to be treated on the gravity of it than technicalities or unreliable certificates.
Last edited by vasu raya on 06 Jan 2013 09:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Pranav » 06 Jan 2013 09:23

sum wrote:
Am confident there is no escaping the advanced dementia that India is slipping into...

^^ +1.

Somehow have this feeling that even worse days are to come and we are going in reverse direction, despite the optimism in BRF that things will turn around.

2014 will see UPA-3 in action and things will keep going downwards


He who controls the EVMs has every right to rule.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Gus » 06 Jan 2013 09:23

We can spread the name in our personal channels - blogs, twitter and FB.

If the establishment deliberately made him a juve so they dont have to release his muz name - that is a new low.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Bade » 06 Jan 2013 09:27

The friend who tried to defend her will know for sure if the so called minor is truly one. Lot of the facts related to this case cannot be hidden forever.

The girls father did the right thing by revealing her name, but we had to give him the time to get over his grief of her passing to do so.

My outrage is reserved for all the passersby who did not stop to give her and the friend the help. The Delhi Police too turned out to be short on common sense, arguing about jurisdiction when faced with a profusely bleeding victim. This happened in the capital city and we do not have speedy first responders in this age of mobile phones ? Thirty minutes is a long time to arrive at the scene as per police claims. Fixing this should be part of the solutions.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby SaiK » 06 Jan 2013 09:29

I can't believe this billion planet is taking religions turn, instead of going by the rules, or change of rules in this case to charge all the men, and hang them. This is the rape of democracy (if it still exists in any form).

Can we have MUG SHOTS and FULL SHOTS of these b@$turds online?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2013 09:43


SaiK
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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby SaiK » 06 Jan 2013 09:45

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Of-all-juvenile-crimes-64-by-16-18-yr-olds/articleshow/17907886.cms Across the country, Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra , Chhattisgarh, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan and Gujarat accounted for close to 70% of all juvenile crimes registered in 2011. Madhya Pradesh led the pack in rape cases with 271 cases, followed UP (146) and Maharshtra (125). Delhi recorded 47 cases of rapes by juveniles. All together make for over 50% of all rape cases by juveniles.

60-70% of juvenile criminals are aged 16-18.

Enough data to consider them as adults.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Prasad » 06 Jan 2013 09:47

ramana sir,
while the political trickery in this case might be due to the religious angle, I believe that when the case details get blown open, it'll stare everyone in the face as to why there was this much suppression. let us also not forget that only one of the rapists appears to be a muslim. the rest seem to be hindu. the last thing this the positives that have come out of the outrage need is to be sidetracked into a communal angle. I can bet my bottom dollar that this is what the media would like to turn the discussion to, forgetting all about accountability of an elected government at both centre and state and also about reforms needed in the society other than on religious lines. We will get sidetracked. Focus on what is easier to focus on to achieve larger goals sir (wrt to getting more backing to hit the same target but a different portion ofit).

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Theo_Fidel » 06 Jan 2013 11:02

I agree with the release of the name but unfortunately I'm of the view that it may have compromised aspects of the case. The courts in India are very finicky about these things. Already the friend has compromised himself by going public. So the best witness can no longer be used. We still have to get these animals convicted and get them all the death penalty. This is not over by far.

Chanakya can you comment.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Bade » 06 Jan 2013 11:13

Yes he should speak in the presence of a lawyer, perhaps as his reliability will matter in the case.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby disha » 06 Jan 2013 11:21

It is funny that conviction in India still depends upon "witness'es" instead of forensic evidence, which is still considered "circumstantial" instead of other way around. It was Jessica lal case that turned it around and achieved the conviction on forensic evidence, when all the High Society witnesses turned away.

Witnesses can be used circumstantially to place the accused and the victim in the same place and same time and the rest can be based on forensic evidence. The motive of pre-plan is already established. The case is now not about whether the accussed are guilty or not - as some people say - open and shut case., the question is how will a conviction result them in death sentence? Particularly after what Pratibha Patil did, this guys can actually get a walk thru on death penalty.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby SaiK » 06 Jan 2013 11:29

I think we need both, one compounding the other, and sometimes eyewitness can be confusing, as human brain can think entirely different (like how magician cover up our eyes with their tricks). We need forensic evidence as well.. do our police force engage them effectively?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2013 12:35

BTW Delhi Police claims typo error in the five accused chargesheet. Sec 302 was not invoked.

Jagran reports.

DP has no shame.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Sushupti » 06 Jan 2013 13:50

Rapists of Delhi braveheart are all Biharis: Raj Thackeray

Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) chief Raj Thackeray has once again sparked a controversy, this time by blaming 'Bihari' migrants for the ghastly Delhi gang-rape incident that claimed the life of a promising paramedic student, shaking the country's conscience and spilling protests on the streets across.

"All are talking about the Delhi gangrape, but nobody is asking from where these men came. No one is asking who did it. So many cases are slapped against me (for speaking against Biharis) but no one is talking about the fact that all these rapists are from Bihar," he said, addressing a public function in suburban Goregaon on Saturday night.

"The system has collapsed," Raj said.

The gangrape of a 23-year-old paramedical student in the national capital has led to thousands of protesters taking to the streets demanding stricter anti-rape laws. A Delhi court on Saturday took cognisance of the charge sheet filed by the Delhi Police and summoned the five accused named in it on January 7.

Blaming migrants for the horrific crime, the MNS chief, at a public speech on Saturday evening said, "People are just raising slogans, but nobody is pointing out the fact that persons who committed the heinous crime were all from Bihar."

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_r ... um=twitter

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Philip » 06 Jan 2013 14:06

Is this true? If so ,an even more malevolent act than the rape and murder itself,the "silencing" of the victim".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -them.html

Delhi police file criminal case after rape victim's friend criticises them
Delhi police file criminal case against rape victim's friend, after he goes on television to criticise officers who failed to give help after the attack.

By Rob Crilly, and Rahul Bedi in New Delhi

05 Jan 2013

Indian police say they have filed a case against a news channel for broadcasting an interview with the boyfriend of a woman who died after a gang rape, in which he criticised officers for squabbling as the couple lay injured in the road.

The 28-year-old said officers refused to lift his bleeding girlfriend into a police van and claimed delays meant it took two hours to reach hospital.

A criminal case was registered late on Friday against the Hindi language TV channel Zee News over the interview, which police said could lead to the identification of the victim in breach of a law entitling her to anonymity.

"Investigations will begin shortly and anyone guilty of this violation will be similar charged," said Rajan Bhagat, police spokesman.

The death of the 23-year-old woman last weekend has shocked India and forced it to face up to the routine sexual harassment faced by women as well as its poor record on prosecuting rape cases.
Related Articles

Rape victim's friend recalls attack
04 Jan 2013

Indian rape victim row draws pledge to hire more female police
04 Jan 2013

Indian politician accused of rape beaten
03 Jan 2013

Protesters have demanded the death penalty for six suspects and an end to a culture where victims are frequently ignored by the police.

Five men have been charged with rape, murder and a string of other offences.

Police have asked for a bone test on the sixth to ascertain whether he is 17 or old enough to stand trial as an adult.

Meanwhile, a fast track court on Saturday asked police to produce all five of the adult defendants on Monday.

"We have filed all the evidence," Rajiv Mohan, additional public prosecutor, told the court in Saket in the south of the city.

"The blood of the victim tallied with the stains found on the clothes of the accused," he added, saying that a DNA test had been conducted by the police.

In the interview, the victim's boyfriend said officers arrived 45 minutes after the attack in New Delhi but then argued about which police station was responsible.

"My friend was bleeding profusely. But instead of taking us to a nearby hospital, they took us to a hospital that was far away," he said.

Indian law prohibits the naming of rape victims. However, their identity may be revealed after death with the permission of their families.

The family of the woman have said they would be happy for her identity to be published but the government and police have threatened action against anyone revealing her name, leading to speculation that authorities want the case to disappear.

This week a junior minister used Twitter to question the rationale behind maintaining the victim's anonymity but was promptly slapped down by his party leadership.

Shashi Tharoor wrote: "Wondering what interest is served by continuing anonymity. Why not name&honour her as a real person w/own identity?"

The case against Zee News was also condemned by the Committee to Protect Journalists.

Bob Diet, the organisation's Asia director, said: "This is an instance of greatly misplaced priorities. Authorities are hardly protecting the victim's rights by retaliating against news media that are bringing to light details of the horrific crime that claimed her life.

"Police should immediately drop their misguided plan to file charges.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby IndraD » 06 Jan 2013 14:55

Now when the father himself has revealed identity of victim and it is all over the world, can Delhi police file FIR against him as well?

BTW wasn't it decided that case will be heard on day to day basis, then why this tareekh pe tareekh again?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby member_20317 » 06 Jan 2013 15:21

The outrage against the commuters not stopping is an anger directed in general, a shot in the dark in the same bracket as the Suzzane Roy level of observation.

The stretch where the whole crime happened is a fast moving traffic zone with traffic of Gurgaon and Airport coming into Delhi. Also the area is near to a 5-6 colleges/universities of which all except IITs have build up a reputation for a libertine behaviour. Late at night moving fast from an area that is not exactly crime free and seeing two youths without clothes would not register in the way some would want it to. Even so it is understandable that at least say 10% of the people would have stopped which is actually more then the number of people needed to address the situation. Again yes ~10% would also have just been inconsiderate and the remaining would remain afraid of moving out of comfort zones without some form of leadership from somebody else.

So the chance to help would have been there had circumstances been somewhat different. But then had it been a little favourable time then the criminals probably would not have committed the crime.

Coincidently Kumar Biswas whom most would be hard put to match w.r.t. sensibilities/outrage has expressed the same understanding of circumstances and more actually which has consistently been avoided by a few people here.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Gus » 06 Jan 2013 16:14

huh what???

My personal observation has been those on a car would just keep on driving. You can make whatever of it by bringing in arundhati etc. Pedestrians and people who stand in bus stops help the fallen on the road. People in cars seldom bother to even get down. They just block it out.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Arjun » 06 Jan 2013 16:24

Does anybody have the actual transcript of Bhagwat's latest or the unedited video ?

Kinda fun seeing the usual Dork media and NRI suspects getting their panties in a twist 8)

Will be good to check what the actual truth is...

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby nawabs » 06 Jan 2013 16:32

^^ Sushupti ji posted it in Elections Thread.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby IndraD » 06 Jan 2013 16:37

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 912272.cms
:twisted:
two accused want to become witness.


who is giving the accused dimag in Tihar jail? Whom are they connected with?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby sanjeevpunj » 06 Jan 2013 16:48

^^^Very Important point, who is guiding these ba****ds?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Sanjay » 06 Jan 2013 16:51

Theo_Fidel wrote:I agree with the release of the name but unfortunately I'm of the view that it may have compromised aspects of the case. The courts in India are very finicky about these things. Already the friend has compromised himself by going public. So the best witness can no longer be used. We still have to get these animals convicted and get them all the death penalty. This is not over by far.

Chanakya can you comment.


Theo, legally it should not be an issue. Whether the name is publicly known or not, the witness can be used. The law was introduced to protect witnesses and victims from intimidation once the case started. Not to exclude evidence.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby member_20317 » 06 Jan 2013 16:52

Arjun wrote:Does anybody have the actual transcript of Bhagwat's latest or the unedited video ?

Kinda fun seeing the usual Dork media and NRI suspects getting their panties in a twist 8)

Will be good to check what the actual truth is...



Arjun ji I was hoping some 'raping society' budhijeevi would come along to highlight his win. :twisted:

But now you have let the cat out of the bag. :)


Budhijeevi bhailog I will provide one more clue. Seems like the leader of the chandigarh Mahila morcha of BJP has said something that can be used. Hope I get in your good books now. :lol:

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby IndraD » 06 Jan 2013 16:54

^^ A cunning thing would be to turn 2 into witness, make case water tight and then hang all 6 of them. Jaise ko taisa

On the other hand why people like RSS chief can't keep quiet??

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby sanjeevpunj » 06 Jan 2013 16:57

Why not. As the witnesses open their mouths, the hidden links will come out and the picture will be clear.Then, the four accused are also likely to point out the complicity of the two witnesses, and that will ensure conviction for all six.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Sanjay » 06 Jan 2013 17:06

Because you turn state witness does not mean you are acquitted. It affects sentencing though.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Sanku » 06 Jan 2013 17:15

IndraD wrote:On the other hand why people like RSS chief can't keep quiet??


Why should they? What RSS chief said was right and honorable. Should all of us should shut up since we will be attacked by Nehruivan institutions for speaking up?

http://www.ibtl.in/video/6652/what-actu ... ting-woman

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby IndraD » 06 Jan 2013 17:21

Sanku wrote:
IndraD wrote:On the other hand why people like RSS chief can't keep quiet??


Why should they? What RSS chief said was right and honorable. Should all of us should shut up since we will be attacked by Nehruivan institutions for speaking up?

http://www.ibtl.in/video/6652/what-actu ... ting-woman

well, how is this an OK comment?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 911402.cms

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby member_20317 » 06 Jan 2013 17:22

Yo motorwada gaave raagini hip-hop mein ji.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Arjun » 06 Jan 2013 17:27

IndraD wrote:well, how is this an OK comment?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 911402.cms

When you can't trust Indian dork media to report straight on even noncontroversial business or technical matters - what is the chance they will report straight on anything to do with the RSS?

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby IndraD » 06 Jan 2013 17:32

^^ Exactly. That is why it is even more important to play right. In such cases the less said the better it is. Finally what is reported on bika hua media does affect electoral prospect and candle walah' psyche.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Sanku » 06 Jan 2013 17:38

IndraD wrote:
Sanku wrote:Why should they? What RSS chief said was right and honorable. Should all of us should shut up since we will be attacked by Nehruivan institutions for speaking up?

http://www.ibtl.in/video/6652/what-actu ... ting-woman

well, how is this an OK comment?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 911402.cms


I am sure you would not take ToI as gospel, and believe in it blindly without understanding the past background of RSS, their current chief, and of ToI.

Even if the RSS Chief said "I will have cows milk" --> the head line would be "RSS chief displays a anti black racist stand against buffalos"

Should we just not say anything at all, and let them win by default

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby Pratyush » 06 Jan 2013 20:05

^^^

Guys, this is an outrage thread. Not defend RSS thread. The RSS can take care of it self. If it is not doing so. That is its business.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby RamaY » 06 Jan 2013 20:44

IndraD,

You rise interesting questions.

Firstly MB's Comments about Bharat and India. Please read this viewtopic.php?p=1353820#p1353820

Secondly his definition of Marriage. In Christianity and Islam the marriage is a contract. The husband (and rarely wife) can come out of the contract at their will after paying pre-negotiated monetary commitments. Since (sic) secularism is nothing but Christianity without church, in India too marriage is defined so. On the other hand, marriage in Hindu dharma is a sacred institution. Here wife and husband are meant to live together for entire life, helping each other in their pursuit of purusharthas. In the process they are required to help each other in times of failures, instead of breaking the relationship.

Thirdly, why can't RSS chief sit quite. If everyone sat quite, we wouldnt be having this thread. After all lakhs of women (Theoji says every Hindu women is raped by their family members) are raped every year in India. Why speaking about this case?

It is a sad reality that so-called self-declared educated, liberal and secular Indians who question RSS comments instead of contemplating why cannot government act proactively, why cannot Delhi Police act efficiently and why cannot media report honestly. Instead they tell us these are facts of life and we must live with them and focus our energies toward fighting non-existent saffron-terror.

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Re: Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Postby SriKumar » 06 Jan 2013 20:48

Is dnaindia website served from inside India or outside? I found this article about the rape victim's name from dnaindia. Her name is mentioned here. Another article (NDTV) talked about the release of the name but did not mention the name itself.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_wa ... er_1786106
The last para cut-and-paste from the above article mentions the rules that govern the release of the name of a rape victim. I am not sure how accurate this is, or whether there are other laws in addition to what's written below:
What IPC says on revealing rape victim's name:
According to the Indian Penal Code, the disclosure of identity of the victim of certain offences etc. can be made
a) by or under the order in writing of the officer-in-charge of the police station or the police officer making the investigation into such offence acting in good faith for the purposes of such investigation; or
b) by, or with the authorisation in writing of, the victim; or
c) where the victim is dead or minor or of unsound mind, by, or with the authorisation in writing of, the next of kin of the victim (This is the provision under which the revelation has been made)

If line item (c) is to be believed, and there are no other laws that additionally qualify the above, then the name has been released legally.


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