Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

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harbans
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Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 17:13

When 50% of our population feels threatened, it's a strategic Issue that involves security of the core of the Nation itself. What needs to be done to make our Homes, Streets, Offices safer for Women. What do we need to do to increase respect for Women. There are too many glaring inadequacies visible. Let people both express outrage and hurt and offer solutions that can ease or mitigate the problem.

One article from Rediff:

Why we need to move beyond Protest

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 17:18

Sagar G Wrote:

I am not diluting the outrage but only questioning where will this outrage lead to ???


Theo Ji Wrote:

I did not say anything for the first 4 pages, but the time for talk has passed. In the time of this 4 pages another 100 or so women have been raped in India. A dozen or so died or killed themselves. We need to get over our sense of hurt and start influencing changes on the ground.


What kind of logic is this boss. It is easy to stand on the sidewalk, wave a cheap placard and proclaim how 'outraged' one is. But now what you gonna do about it. Other than blame the government for everything and start a Aam Janata no-rape party..

What are you going to do personally in your life that will change the status of women? Not a tough question.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 17:22

From the Rediff Article:

Sexual violence is a phenomenon that is multifaceted in its etiology with a wide range of triggers that can be biological, psychological, cultural, social or political. The World Health Organisation's World Report on Violence and Health (Dahlberg and Krug, 2002) postulates an ecological approach that factors in these various etiologies to come up with a comprehensive plan to counter sexual violence, and is a blueprint used by several countries.

This approach recommends intervention at four levels to decrease the incidence of sexual violence. Below is a limited overview of this approach:

Individual Level: Factors like alcohol and drug abuse known to be catalysts for sexual violence need to be addressed, especially their abuse in public places. The fact that the perpetrators of the current tragedy were drunk at the time of its occurrence highlights this necessity.

Interpersonal Relationships
: Based on the assumption that close personal relationships shape an individual's behaviour, intervention at this level includes facilitation of greater interaction between the sexes in their formative years and counselling of young boys and young men to eradicate traditionally held concepts of machismo. Union Women and Child Development Minister Krishna Tirath's [ Images ] proposal to launch a new scheme, the Rajiv Gandhi [ Images ] Scheme for Empowerment of Adolescent Boys, aimed at building character of adolescent boys and changing their mindset towards women is an example of this.

Community Level: Strict sexual harassment policies in workplaces will send out a message of zero tolerance for such infractions.

Society Level: Indian society is fortunate to have a civilisational tradition that celebrates a women's honour but appears to have lost it somewhere along the way. Our great epic the Mahabharata [ Images ] centres on a battle to salvage the honour of a woman disrobed in a royal court. And in the Ramayana [ Images ], Sri Lanka [ Images ] had to suffer total devastation because its king dared to sully the purity of the divine maiden, Sita. These instances should be repeatedly emphasised to effect a change in behaviour. Mass media can be used to promote societal norms that prevent such acts.

But plans and government diktats are only good as the paper they are printed on sans effective implementation. Transient demonstration of public outrage including the current protest that is more prolonged than most merely serve to highlight an issue. Government promises extracted in the heat of the moment tend to fizzle out with time. Public protest is the first salvo. We need to move beyond public protest to the next phase to achieve results, namely the practical translation of preventive measures and monitoring of the effectiveness of new and existing measures.

That is where civil society comes into play. Constant vigil is the name of the game: continuous oversight to keep delinquent governments in check and security personnel on the alert; and constant monitoring to gauge the effectiveness of interventions. A rape meter with rape statistics conspicuously printed on the front page of newspapers on a monthly basis will go a long way to sustain public awareness and efforts -- the key drivers for lasting success. Only then will rape become a rarity.
Now that the 23 year-old-girl is no more, we must be doubly determined to carry out this task to fruition to prove that her life was not lost in vain.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 17:29

Protesting against atrocities is all fine and dandy but they are worthless if they are not done with an objective in mind, objective which must be achieved no matter what. Lets the cops come burst open your head with there lathis, let the government impose section 144 call in paramilitary forces turn the place into a fortress but you must be resolute to carry out your protests. Unless and until such resolute will isn't shown by society/individual no amount of protests or abusing the system is going to change the present scenario.

Resolute as shown by Potti Sreeramulu

Potti Sreeramulu (16 March 1901 – 16 December 1952), was an Indian revolutionary. He became famous for undertaking a hunger strike in support of the formation of an Indian state for the Telugu-speaking population of Madras Presidency; he lost his life in the process. His death sparked public rioting, and Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru declared the intent to form Andhra State three days following.


Yeah until and unless this type of strong will isn't shown nothing will be achieved by these dhimmi protests.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Lilo » 29 Dec 2012 17:33

Ok guys please keep track of this twitter account @Violenceonwomen

https://twitter.com/Violenceonwomen

It will be exclusively populated by the news items from the RSS feed from earlier.

The tweets get automatically posted on to twitter when ever a new incident gets reported in the feed.
In effect we can track violence against women in India in real time.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 17:37

Some Solutions i can list are:

1. Avoid Ban type solutions. Discourage people who talk them. Banning Skirts, Jeans, Alcohol will not make society more sensitive. They will lead to the 'Blame the Victim' syndrome being more prevalent. She asked for it.

2. Make Justice for Rape harsher, faster and (a Non Bailable Offense.?)

3. Reducing repression in Society. Increased interaction between opposite genders in a healthy and respectful way from a younger age.

4. Internalizing understanding that interaction between sex's is natural, but it must be respectful.

5. Making people understand that Sharia kind of justice and segregation of sex's results in searching the net for Donkey sex, Rape Sex, Dog Sex. Lets leave that for our Paki brethren.

6. Making conscious efforts to make less cool the MC, BC lingo prevalent in much of India.

7. Ridicule Bollywood culture that propagates : 'Ajja Meri Gaadi mein Beth Ja', 'Chal Chamak Chalo" culture that many see as legitimate expressions to passersby.

8. Ridicule and shame Bollywood Icons that spread the culture that harassing, embarrassing,
shaming, stalking girls is the way to win them.

There are loads of points, the purpose is to crystallize solutions so that these may be visible in public domain for some time.
Last edited by harbans on 29 Dec 2012 18:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 17:43

Also stop blaming others for your shitty thinking and Rape is already a non bailable offence.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 17:57

Also stop blaming others for your shitty thinking


Sagar G, instead of being disrespectful to all and sundry around. Why don't you pen up solutions of your own?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 18:04

harbans wrote:Sagar G, instead of being disrespectful to all and sundry around. Why don't you pen up solutions of your own?


Aree my post wasn't pointed towards you or anyone in particular but yeah I corrected one thing in your post but if you feel that I disrespected you then accept my apologies.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Comer » 29 Dec 2012 18:07

Good points harbans, except the second. What if there is a false allegation of rape?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Arjun » 29 Dec 2012 18:07

1. Sexual harrassment in any form (including what's called 'eve teasing' in India) should be an offence. Not sure if that is already the case.

2. Any woman who has suffered from sexual harassment or rape needs to be actively encouraged by society to register a case.

3. Only if (2) happens would we have real data on the extent of the problem and would be able to come up with more realistic solutions.
At the moment, for number of rapes per year per 100,000 population - India stands at around 2, US stands at 27 and Sweden at 63

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 18:08

Sagar G, my apologies too. And thanks for the correction. I put non bailable because in some cases in the news reports i have read, alleged offenders have been put out on bail after some time in Prison.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 18:18

Good points harbans, except the second. What if there is a false allegation of rape?


That happens quite often too in our society. That is why when we think solutions we have to keep problems that some solutions create. There are battered Men societies in India too, where men too have suffered tremendously at the hands of some women. But the need of the hour is making women feel safer. Before i had opposed mandatory death for rape for this reason too, apart from the fact that mandatory death for rape alone will lead to more rapists trying to cover their tracks by snuffing the victims life out.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2012 18:19

remove privileges of the ruling class that they have appropriated for themselves.

If you remove those red light cars and traffic bandobust for politicians and make them travel amongst the regular people - maybe they will to something about the fcuking traffic mess.

If you remove the police posted for them and their family members who go out shopping etc, maybe they will do something about the law and order situation. Maybe they will put more cops on streets...because maybe it is their family member at risk too.

right now, they are completely insulated from the India that general public lives.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby vishvak » 29 Dec 2012 18:20

Public areas should be lit up well, guarded by police including lady police, should have broad hallways as well.

Public safety should be made a concern for shopkeepers and owners. Shopkeepers in an area should pool resources for guards in the area.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 18:20

harbans wrote:I put non bailable because in some cases in the news reports i have read, alleged offenders have been put out on bail after some time in Prison.


Hmmm I have read about this recently as well, it must have got to do with some other law. Will dig and try to get some info on it.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 18:26

Xposting Anujan's post from GDF:

I agree with the attitude of the society etc. But I think that the first order reasons are three fold.

1. General lawlessness. This allows things like transport mafia which is directly responsible for the current rape. Taxi drivers and criminals using accomplices in transport etc were responsible for previous rapes.
2. Police are used for serving VIPs and not for protecting people. It is not wholly the fault of the police. That is what politicians task them to do.
3. Rape complaints are not lodged in a sensitive way.

At a minimum if the above three are taken care of, we would go a considerable distance towards making it safer for women.

The vague society based reasons can be address later in due time.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Comer » 29 Dec 2012 18:27

To extend the first point of Harbans, there should not be mandatory early closing of movie halls/restaurants/pubs. It should be "normal" for people to move about even after midnight if they want to. More legitimate business activities at night, more chances of policing.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 18:33

Arjun wrote:At the moment, for number of rapes per year per 100,000 population - India stands at around 2, US stands at 27 and Sweden at 63


Wrong stats UN rape statistics paint an altogether different picture US registers 80,000+ rape cases every year compared to 20,000+ cases in India. Per 1 lakh population US registers 27.3 rape cases and India registers 1.8 (all 2010 data).

Link

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 18:34

To extend the first point of Harbans, there should not be mandatory early closing of movie halls/restaurants/pubs. It should be "normal" for people to move about even after midnight if they want to.


Saravanan Ji, absolutely. The streets should be safe at all hours. Safety is not a 9-5 job. The Police try to absolve their duty by forcing politicians to make rules whereby establishments close early. The calls for earlier closure are escapism from responsibilities.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Arjun » 29 Dec 2012 18:38

Sagar G wrote:Wrong stats UN rape statistics paint an altogether different picture US registers 80,000+ rape cases every year compared to 20,000+ cases in India. Per 1 lakh population US registers 27.3 rape cases and India registers 1.8 (all 2010 data).

Link

isn't that pretty much the same as what I had said ?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 18:42

Arjun wrote:Link
isn't that pretty much the same as what I had said ?


Oh sorry tube light moment I thought you were giving the rankings.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 19:00

Let us remember that this particular Rape case happened in Delhi. It is our National capital. It has all the resources at its command, man power, best training, full funding, enlightened citizens, employment opportunities, economic prosperity, best education facilities, good transport services, best in class medical facilities ( all not necessarily in that order).
Yet one girl walks with her friend at 9.25 PM ( not a very late hour if I dare say) , takes a Bus at a very well lit public place Munirka Bus stand. Within ten minutes she undergoes the experience of hell while bus is running slowly on the roads making turns in the same area three or four times. The same bus commits crime few hours before ( minutes may be) and the victim tries to contact Police and fails. Another victim succeeds in contacting police and as usual police is taking time for investigation. Meanwhile the Bus solicits passengers at Munirka Bus Stand and take the ill fated girl ( that too quite accidentally as they just happened there) and her friend. It could have been any one there... your daughter or my daughter. It was just ill luck that she was at the receiving end of a system that failed to work collectively and individually.

The Bus is said to be a charter bus . chartered to a School. After duty hours not parked at appropriate place and taking passengers, going around the route soliciting passengers. No one , not a single authority stopped the bus ( transport department/Traffic police) ans asked what it is doing at the place and time where it has no business to be.
The Bus has been booked for MV violations, was not fit to be on the road and a repeat offender. Yet let off with minor pecuniary penalties. His psychological state of mind was not tested before giving driving license . Whether he is a fit person or not for doing a public job is never assessed.

The driver was also booked for traffic violations several times yet continued to drive the bus. He is alcoholic and has criminal bent of mind. He takes the bus and cleans it thoroughly to erase the evidence. This happens and he goes on to park the Bus in RK Puram area.

There is an order by SC not to use black films on glasses etc. Everyone concentrated on Passenger Cars. This and hundreds of other buses continued to use black films while traffic police looked on.

Irony of the whole thing is that once Gudgaon police get a call and inform Delhi Police and in a speediest investigation they manage to track bus owner and later the bus and its driver. The thing which is said to facilitate this is Hafta System where a constable or some police official keeps tab on unauthorised movement of buses. trucks etc and collects money. These buggers dont know that it could have been their daughters as well and if they think their daughters are safe then they are more criminal than the criminals.

The accomplices in the crime were all taking turns to brutalise one hapless victim in a dark glassed bus unauthorisedly plying on the streets of the capital .. and see their profession... one is a gym instructor , others are fruit sellers, cleaners . All of them are caught later , either from Delhi or from Rajasthan, UP and Bihar.

The Girl is also from poor or lower middle class background doing her education in professional course and hoping to make things better in the Capital and for once forgetting the drudgery of present life that his father would be undergoing to make his children better educated and employed to make things better for next generation. Arent we all do this at all levels of society.

The Girl is given best of the treatment which the Government Of the Day could afford, due to high publicity and public outrage and protestations. Not all are so fortunate. When Govt thought it better they shifted out of India despite medical cost to the Girl ostensibly to giver even better treatment. The machinery, mind you it is the same machinery which moves at snails pace, moved with alacrity and arranges documents passports everything. I believe it was done to save its own skin but that is apart.


Now the case will move to the Judiciary. Where its would take four years or so to decide finally the fate of those criminals. May be after some time they would ask for bail due to delay in trial and would be granted and then it is back to normal business till they are sentenced.

Four years is a long time and there are thousand of cases of rape pending. Every 40 minutes one rape happens in India. As theo said by the time first four pages of this thread re written 100 rapes would have occurred.Even during the protest in the current case three more cases were reported.

The Judicial process have failed to instill fear in the criminals. The sentence has failed to have its deterrent value.
While judges would be sincere and fast track the case, the process itself would be cumbersome.


This is not only a collective failure but failure of individuals manning the system and the system itself.

So members please summarise what are the points of failure and what remedial action in short term, long term needed.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby ManjaM » 29 Dec 2012 19:15

There is a person by name Prakruthi Banvasi who lives around the Jayanagar area in Bangalore. Over the last decade he has become someone of a small legend by chasing and nabbing eve teasers around the Jayanagar area and handing them over to the police. He has even published a small ebook with his experiences in dealing with the issue. He was somewhat of an idol for me during my college days and remains to this day.
http://www.banwasi.com/html/ete1.html

I can only hope that among the thousands of protestors and candlelighters, there will be atleast 10 who take up direct action like Banwasi and clean up their respective localities.
Last edited by ManjaM on 29 Dec 2012 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 19:18

The perpetrators had no fear of punishment as they were paying bribes to Delhi police and Delhi Govt Transport Dept. They though if they could erase the evidence they would be safe and perhaps rely upon DP to bail them out.

In majority of cases perpetrators enjoy patronage of the Govt. The institutions within the system itself takes a lenient view of those who perpetrates these crimes.

See how many legislators are charged with rape and murder. Would they ever consent to make harsher punishment. Death for Murder has been included by Britishers hence stays on the statue book. But such crimes which are called Social crimes or crime of passion are not dealt with severely.

In majority of rape cases , known persons are involved... neighbors, relatives or near ones. This cases falls in the remaining ten percent.

In this case the Girl had no chance to go to police and report it , file FIR and face the same DP ( could be any police) where the same hafta taking officer would ask lewd questions, deal with it insensitively and in the most sloppiest way just in order to protect his golden ( criminal) goose. Why should he cut down on his income. he has no stake in victims well being . The police will not file FIR in many cases and delay till evidences are gone cold.

No wonder conviction rate is only 23 %.

Our system does not allow once innocent to go to jail or punish them and therefore sets free all criminals as well till they are proved guilty. The Police, the Lawyers the judiciary all take advantage of this to perpetrate their criminal enterprise.

In sum , our criminal justice system has failed the citizens in its totality.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 19:18

Rape also has to be defined and categorized more clearly.

Cat 1. Rape, mutilation and Murder of victim.

Cat 2: Rape and Murder of victim

Cat 3: Rape and Mutilation of victim, victim survives but barely

Cat 4: Rape of Victim (underage)

Cat 5: Rape of Victim (Adult)

Cat 6: Attempted Rape (Underage)

Cat 7: Attempted Rape (Adult)

Cat 8: Date Rape (Underage)

Cat 9: Date Rape (Adult)

Cat 10: Deception 'Rape' (Promise to Marry for Sexual Relations and going back)

Below these a category for Molestation, lewd uninvited comments must be categorized. To reduce each category, the differences lie in (a) Deterrent in Law (b) Different sociological approach to deal with them. Many cases may be more predominant in an urban set up such as Cat 8 and 9, many in a rural repressed and gender segregated category. Tackling them long term will require fundamentally different approaches. For example as stats show 90% cases of rape are carried out within close family. Reporting the same to authorities through helplines must be advertized. The report must not be to insensitive Police stations but special Police cells with hotlines for the same. When a report comes in through such a hotline, special personal assigned and bring the perpetrator to judicial custody till the case is cleared. In such cases the cell should also have responsibility in monitoring the
victim much after the report is made and taking her or him under shelter if the persons life is in danger. This happens to mostly to children and there must be dedicated hotlines advertized so they can receive help.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Arjun » 29 Dec 2012 19:27

A quote from Banwasi's document on characteristics of an 'eve teaser'....

He also huddles with other men and discusses women in a cheap manner.

Hate to say this, but many who study at even the supposedly elitest institutes in India, would be party to such behaviour.

I hope this is one aspect that publicity from the Delhi case will completely root out. Our campuses also need new thinking on what kind of language and behaviour is acceptable in civilized society.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Comer » 29 Dec 2012 19:29

Harbans, please drop the ji.
ManjaM, thanks for the information about Mr. Banwasi.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 19:34

Sagar G on the Non Bailable part (Posted by Gus in the Outrage thread):

Summing up the situation, a former Mahila Court prosecutor said: "With all these delays, the accused cannot be kept in jail for the entire period of trial, so he is granted bail. Once the accused is out, the chances of him threatening or influencing the victim to withdraw the case or opt for settlement is high. Over a period, the victim turns hostile leaving the case remains in a limbo. This explains why conviction rate in rape cases, just as other cases, too has dipped alarmingly. Ideally, we should be able to complete rape trials in 3-4 sittings on a fast track court mode, with no bail and no adjournments."


Huge Overload of Pending Cases

So that implies that Rape cases must be speedily disposed for the Non Bailable part to be effective. A very important point here. Fast track courts representing a lower court. Appeals on Fast track Court 2. All over in maximum 2 months. That's the kind of system we require to put in place with good forensics, investigation techniques.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 19:35

Did some reading on bail aspect and it seems that an accused can ask for Anticipatory Bail (Section 438 of Criminal Procedure Code) in anticipation of his arrest and for him/her to get such an order passed by the court he/she has to convince the court why he/she deserves to be given bail. Once an arrest takes place and if the accused has been able to get the anticipatory bail order from the court then he/she can be given bail soon after the arrest has taken place. But if the arrest takes place and the accused has failed to get an anticipatory bail then to get bail he has to apply for the same under section 437 or 43 of CrPC.

Here are the nine guidelines laid down by SC for bail

i) Though the power conferred under Section 438 of the Code can be described as of an extraordinary character, but this does not justify the conclusion that the power must be exercised in exceptional cases only because it is of an extraordinary character. Nonetheless, the discretion under the Section has to be exercised with due care and circumspection depending on circumstances justifying its exercise.

ii) Before power under sub-section (1) of Section 438 of the Code is exercised, the Court must be satisfied that the applicant invoking the provision has reason to believe that he is likely to be arrested for a non-bailable offence and that belief must be founded on reasonable grounds. Mere “fear” is not belief, for which reason, it is not enough for the applicant to show that he has some sort of vague apprehension that some one is going to make an accusation against him, in pursuance of which he may be arrested. The grounds on which the belief of the applicant is based that he may be arrested for a non-bailable offence, must be capable of being examined by the Court objectively. Specific events and facts must be disclosed by the applicant in order to enable the Court to judge of the reasonableness of his belief, the existence of which is the sine qua non of the exercise of power conferred by the Section.

iii) The observations made in Balchand Jain’s case (supra), regarding the nature of the power conferred by Section 438 and regarding the question whether the conditions mentioned in Section 437 should be read into Section 438 cannot be treated as conclusive on the point. There is no warrant for reading into Section 438, the conditions subject to which bail can be granted under Section 437(1) of the Code and therefore, anticipatory bail cannot be refused in respect of offences like criminal breach of trust for the mere reason that the punishment provided for is imprisonment for life. Circumstances may broadly justify the grant of bail in such cases too, though of course, the Court is free to refuse anticipatory bail in any case if there is material before it justifying such refusal.

iv) No blanket order of bail should be passed and the Court which grants anticipatory bail must take care to specify the offence or the offences in respect of which alone the order will be effective. While granting relief under Section 438(1) of the Code, appropriate conditions can be imposed under Section 438(2) so as to ensure an uninterrupted investigation. One such condition can even be that in the event of the police making out a case of a likely discovery under Section 27 of the Evidence Act, the person released on bail shall be liable to be taken in police custody for facilitating the recovery. Otherwise, such an order can become a charter of lawlessness and a weapon to stifle prompt investigation into offences which could not possibly be predicated when the order was passed.

v) The filing of First Information Report (FIR) is not a condition precedent to the exercise of power under Section 438. The imminence of a likely arrest founded on a reasonable belief can be shown to exist even if an FIR is not yet filed.

vi) An anticipatory bail can be granted even after an FIR is filed so long as the applicant has not been arrested.

vii) The provisions of Section 438 cannot be invoked after the arrest of the accused. After arrest, the accused must seek his remedy under Section 437 or Section 439 of the Code, if he wants to be released on bail in respect of the offence or offences for which he is arrested.

viii) An interim bail order can be passed under Section 438 of the Code without notice to the Public Prosecutor but notice should be issued to the Public Prosecutor or to the Government advocate forthwith and the question of bail should be re-examined in the light of respective contentions of the parties. The ad-interim order too must conform to the requirements of the Section and suitable conditions should be imposed on the applicant even at that stage.

ix) Though it is not necessary that the operation of an order passed under Section 438(1) of the Code be limited in point of time but the Court may, if there are reasons for doing so, limit the operation of the order to a short period until after the filing of FIR in respect of the matter covered by the order. The applicant may, in such cases, be directed to obtain an order of bail under Section 437 or 439 of the Code within a reasonable short period after the filing of the FIR.


To study more about it click

Baikul
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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Baikul » 29 Dec 2012 19:36

Harbans ji, great thread.

In terms of your solutions in your earlier post, I feel that we can split them in terms of the areas they address, and their impact.

For example points 3, 4 and 5 address the core, and are IMO systemic, long term solutions. 2 is proscriptive. I feel that we need both kinds of solutions. In the short to medium term proscriptive solutions are possibly an are area we need to examine in detail.

I do feel that 6,7, 8 may not be practicable to target directly as they are likely to emerge as end results of deeper changes.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sagar G » 29 Dec 2012 19:39

harbans wrote:So that implies that Rape cases must be speedily disposed for the Non Bailable part to be effective. A very important point here. Fast track courts representing a lower court. Appeals on Fast track Court 2. All over in maximum 2 months. That's the kind of system we require to put in place with good forensics, investigation techniques.


Garu was reading about it only (saala truckload of theory dimaag baith gaya) and what you want is also the thing demanded by lawyers.

Need dedicated courts for rape: Lawyers

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 20:06

Baikul Ji, thanks. It's important here though to keep perspective. Take Chanakyaas post in the other thread for example:

There is a Bravery Awards given to 24 ( below 16 years) children in the memory of these Brave Hearts which shook the conscience of The Nation in late seventies. Ranga and Billa were the perps and hanged in 1982. TV channels dont remember this and that was the age when only printed materials were available no TV to have 24 hrs coverage. yet response was tremendous.

But since then what has changed??


So despite the exemplary noise, protest, punishment meted out to Billa and Ranga and instituting a Bravery award nothing really has happened. Watch out for politicians that will try and wriggle out of this by extracting vengeance and instituting some award after Nirbhaya, Amanat. Solutions are not rooted in them alone. From the postings through these days one thing emerges clear:

The need for fast track courts (lower) in every District in India and higher (every n number of districts) to deal with Sexual violence against Women/ Children.

The need to have forensic capabilities, sensitive trained people handling these cases for the above to succeed.

People must not be made to feel justice is being delivered, people must be able to see Justice is being delivered.

Once we start to address this, we need to work on the core aspects. Expand on them and develop strategies to address them in society.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Dec 2012 20:20

I question the title of this thread itself. It is not men who feel unsafe in India. It is women. Make the country safe for them and it will be safe for everyone. Why are we so incapable of focusing on this.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 20:21

Law commission recommended that number of Judges be increased five times the current strength. The Govt has not yet taken a decision on this recommendation. Even if it is done and numbers are increased they would have to handle the same slow judicial process.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 20:22

Theo_Fidel wrote:I question the title of this thread itself. It is not men who feel unsafe in India. It is women. Make the country safe for them and it will be safe for everyone. Why are we so incapable of focusing on this.

Yes, May be it could be Solutions to making India a safer place for Women and children (and vulnerable groups?).

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 20:24

No Political party should field candidates who have charges of rape and sexual assault against women.
Let us resolve not to vote for them. Let it be a new year resolution.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 29 Dec 2012 20:24

Most of us will agree that fast track Judicial and legal procedures are the need of the hour. The next step is more difficult as it involves social mores, whether influenced by Honey Singhs, Bollywood culture, Repression, Alcohol. But what is clear that before a major case like this happens, there have been many warnings which society, police, family have ignored. Herein comes a similar analogy that i will try to invoke regarding accidents and safety. NASA employs that too in their missions. I will refer to the Normal Accident Theory. The Link is below:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/acc ... cident.pdf

Please do go through the link, if you can. Page 14 of the link shows how 300 near misses (but no injury) correspond to 29 (Minor Injuries) and the same to 1 Major Injury. If we translate that system to violence against women, i am sure that statistics would show similar trends. For a person who makes probably 300 lewd comments maybe he makes 29 minor molestation type advances on a woman, and for every 29 minor molestation type advance maybe 1 gets translated into a rape or worse rape and murder. Over tens of millions of people these would translate to many Rapes and a lot of Rapes and Murders.

So tackling these 'near miss' no Injury type lewdness in society in a scientific manner, should give us results in reducing the upper part of the triangle. Many Industries, including NASA (for their space missions included) adopt these simple safety principles and approaches with zero or close to zero safety incidents. If proper monitoring and reporting has helped industry, certainly looking at the same model and approach should help us in reducing violence against women and children.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 29 Dec 2012 20:29

X-Posted

SriKumar wrote:I agree with Anujan's point that 'vague society-based reasons' can be addressed next, first order of business is to address (i) changes in law, (ii) changes to policing procedure, and (iii) increasing police force to help the people. These can be done immediately.

These have to be done while the outrage is still there. Even now, the leadership in the government (either directly or through their surrogates in the media) are stone-walling the issue, or saying it is OK 'chalta hai' (painted, dented etc). What are these people going to do/say 1 year from now when things settle down and the news stories change to something else (e.g. a multi-state power black-out, a new corruption scandal, something coming out of Pakistan, or an election- all these stories will push out this story- Note that on the day of Gujarat elections, the rape story barely received any coverage).

Without doubt, there is an aspect of societal attitude that encourages violence against women and this needs to change , but those are long-term issues requiring long-term implementation of solutions. Focus on long-term solutions will drain the momentum for what can be accomplished in the short term.....and even short-term goals are not assured given the way things are going.

At a minimum, ALL rape cases should be fast-tracked (if the alleged rapists are caught, the case must be tried to completion in 2 or 3 months (say)). Clearly there are not enough resources to that today- not enough police to work the cases, catch the rapists and not enough courts to try the criminals. This needs, among other things, a massive increase of funding and personnel to support the activities. If people dont get that infusion of funds, personnel and procedure at this stage, I doubt that it will ever happen.

The more that this issue gets delayed via commissions of inquiry, panel of august judges etc., the less likely that real changes will happen. We will always have a Commission report to study, 5-10 years from now, and it will have loads of hard data, loads of intelligent reasoning and brilliance. Action, even if imperfect, is the need of the day. Time is of the essence.



Good points. brfites Please suggest specific changes that is required. PM is meeting on 4th Jan to discuss these issues with heads of Civil and Police administration to discuss this issue.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 29 Dec 2012 20:29

chaanakya wrote:Law commission recommended that number of Judges be increased five times the current strength. The Govt has not yet taken a decision on this recommendation. Even if it is done and numbers are increased they would have to handle the same slow judicial process.


Yes, this is a good point. About 10-12 years ago, PM Vajpayee made a speech in the presence of the then Chief Justice about the slowness of the judicial process and how the people were being done a dis-service (I heard it myself). He mentioned that he had a responsibility to the people to address this. The CJ was on the same platform. That was over a decade ago. I am sure there have been tons of studies done by very intelligent scholars and smart people on how to better the status of women in India, attacking the cultural causes etc..etc. Where are we since then? At square one.

I am not sure how to ensure that any good solutions that come out of a national discussion will get *implemented* in any meaningful manner. Does anyone have any thoughts?


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