Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 08 Jan 2013 09:20

Since this is a thread primarily to discuss solutions (and the Outrage Thread got rightly locked for the OT stuff that got thrown in), I just wanted to compile a list of initiatives that have been put in the news in the last few weeks.

These, at best, can be seen as solutions that the govt. is trying to put in place. At the worst, they can be seen as govt. attempts to placate an angry populace to buy time, distract them and keep status quo. The reality can be anywhere between these two extremes. The aim of the post is: (i) to mention new initiatives from the govt, (ii) and to see if there is a timeframe to the new initiative. People can feel free to add new items as the find it.

1. Justice Verma Commission created. Report to be out in 30 days.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... punishment

2. PM office asks HRD ministry to initiate a class in morals. Link from Daily pioneer.
http://dailypioneer.com/sunday-edition/ ... later.html
No timeframe mentioned.

3. CM of TN Jayalalita Jayaram initiating changes to court procedure;
(has any other CM done this?).

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... epage=true
In a 13-point plan, Chief Minister Jayalalithaa on Tuesday mooted severe punishments like death penalty and chemical castration for sexual offenders through amendments in Central Acts.

IGs would submit a report in 15 days on the number of cases of sexual crime under investigation and pending in courts to the Additional Director General of Police (Law and Order).
Could not find specifics on timeframe of implementation, but she's proactively taken steps.

4. Govt. to publicise convicted rapists names:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... prevention
The project deadline is January 10. Details of molesters and those convicted in sexual harassment cases, dowry deaths and domestic violence would also figure on the website of the bureau. Present status of cases and criminals like whether they are in jail or missing would also be mentioned. The bureau would ensure the identities of victims are hidden.

Notes: It is only the Haryana goverment (not GOI, though I thought I saw a GOI article too). The good news is that a timeframe has been posted: January 10th. All convicted rapists' names will be online.

5. Some fast track courts:
(a)One opened in Ranchi.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... sy-grounds
(b) One Five courts opened in Delhi (are there more in the pipeline or is this it?):
http://zeenews.india.com/news/delhi/del ... 20200.html
(c) CJ Kabir asks all high courts to 'fast track ' cases of crimes against women:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 930852.cms
Timeframe: Nothing mentioned. It is anyone's guess what 'fast-track' means in this case. Could be 3 months or 3 years. Article mentions a Chief Justice's conference on April 5 to 7th and that this will be discussed on the agenda. Will a timeframe come out of it? Is it unreasonable to expect one?

6. Hiring of police: Delhi to hire 2500 women police: THe article says: 'A proposal has been sent to finance ministry...'. Next question: how long will the babus there sit on the files? Timeframe looks dubious. People will have to follow this and keep the pressure.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... women-cops
The Centre also asked all the states and union territories (UTs) to suspend police personnel if s/he fails to register a complaint, reminding them that "not registering any complaint is violation of law".

How would this be enforced? Will the station police chief actually fire his subordinate?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With a list like this we get some idea about any programs being initiated, and if so, whether any timeframe has been declared. It is up to the commons to track this and follow up.
Last edited by SriKumar on 08 Jan 2013 10:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 08 Jan 2013 10:22

Posting this article from Tribune (Chandigarh): It talks about the accountability of judiciary and police in the current situation and community monitoring of police probes.
Anand Grover of the Lawyers’ Initiative, which worked on the Criminal Law Amendment Bill 2012 to amend the IPC, the CrPC and the Evidence Act in sexual assault cases, says, “An FIR must be registered immediately. A police officer must be suspended for not doing so. We want community review of police investigations into sex offences. There have to community panels right up to the block level to track investigations independently and see that the police is doing its job. This must be part of the statute.”

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 08 Jan 2013 11:56

Sri, thanks for posting the initiatives updates. The pressure on the representatives is being felt. How some of these initiatives work out also deserves monitoring over time. 2 things have gotten through. First the need for more sensitivity from Cops on sexual assault cases, the second the need for faster track courts/ convictions. The former needs training modules for cops at all levels. Still to hear about how they intend to sensitivise cops in dealing with such cases. Maybe hiring female cops is part of the solution they have come up with. Yet even hiring women does not take away the need for training sessions on sensitivity for both male and female police.

Faster track courts and convictions need better forensic testing capabilities. The institutions for that will require some time to come up and can be speeded up. The capabilities possibly in each district must be able to follow laid procedures for sample collection, testing and production in courts of law. Methods to verify testing in 2 independent locations for confirmation can speed up convictions in critical cases.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 08 Jan 2013 12:13

Bade Ji, i think the law dealing with juveniles is a little too slack for extreme cases like this one. What i suggested is a 2 track flexible-inflexible approach within the 15-19 group. Increasing the juvenile age to 19. Yet decreasing the age for using a hard track approach to violent sexual crime to 15. So for low level lewdness, molestation we can be flexible not to treat even till a 19 year old as an adult, yet for any violent crime and assault, we treat even a 15 year old as an adult. Repeat offenses must be made clear will result in naming and shaming. Compounding of punishments. Focus s on the 15-19 year age groups must be sustained. Measures to keep focus need to be tabled. Things like respectful interaction at school and not segregation encouraged in all schools for example under watch.

The bottom line approach i consider and this should be the case is 'a girl walking nude and drunk at 3 am must be safe on an Indian street'. She doesn't deserve to get raped. It does not help this ideal if people think T Shirts, Jeans, skirts, watching a movie at 10 pm, having a drink at strikers, going to a night club, disco with friends means the victim is asking for it. If we convince every Indian male of that bottomline, i am certain a mental block will have been removed.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 08 Jan 2013 12:41

Now this is exactly the kind of thing i had in mind for harder punishments for juveniles in line with adults..

MUMBAI: The 16-year-old schoolboy who last week savagely knifed a 28-year-old woman and slit her two-year-old son's throat in Belapur has been released on bail, said police officers.

The attack victim, Smita Singh, is still in the ICU of MGM Hospital in Belapur CBD, while the son has been shifted to general ward, said Smita's husband Kuldeep. He has sought protection for his family from NRI police, following "threatening gestures" by the mother of the accused juvenile.


Teenage Slasher gets Bail

It's only then a matter of time when criminals will hire teens to accompany them on murder and rape. Blame the teen, he will get bailed out. And they too can walk scot free. It's imperative that violent teen crime be got under the adult ambit. Yet at the same time increase the juvenile age to 19, make the punishments for low level lewdness, molestation attempt more reform oriented. But hit hard, very hard at violent teens that commit these types of crime.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Anand K » 08 Jan 2013 12:47

I think the educational/awareness programs, monitoring, reporting, self-policing, citizens initiatives, punishments and other facets of the solution will tread into Michael Foucault's territory soon. How else would this closed loop control work?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sanku » 08 Jan 2013 14:17

MurthyB wrote:There is a huge class difference in India. The rapists are slum dwellers. The couple were coming out of an upscale mall having watched "life of Pi', which even in the US is a movie of high culture. .


With all due respect this class candard must be buried right now, the unfortunate vicitim was from a very lower middle class back ground, and Delhi slums are not Dharavi, they are merely unregularized colonies.

Both the rapists and vicitim are from the same strate of society in every which way
.

The bus drivers in Delhi make enough to more than watch a movie in upscale malls btw, its a fairly well paid and lucrative profession (in Indian context)

Kindly let us not spread more FUD and make matters worse than gaining a understanding.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Theo_Fidel » 09 Jan 2013 00:32

They most definitely came from two different world views. Within that definition they most definitely were from 2 different classes. The conflict in India is now between these two world views. The situation is fluid but the 'arc of history' bends towards Jyothi not towards the status quo.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Sanku » 09 Jan 2013 00:44

Theo_Fidel wrote:They most definitely came from two different world views. Within that definition they most definitely were from 2 different classes. The conflict in India is now between these two world views. The situation is fluid but the 'arc of history' bends towards Jyothi not towards the status quo.


So when the class nonsense does not stick make up more arcane stuff to defend it?

Obviously they come from two different world view, rapists are not normal people, normal people dont have rapist world view. That is tautological.

However the current status quo is not rapist pasand, it will be, somewhat like US of A, if many of the hair brained schemes are put forward, but right now they are not.

The conflict is between those who seek sad events to subvert the idea of India and impose artificial constructs which are destructive, and those who will weed out the evil while keeping the garden free from turning into a concrete block by those who would burn everything up and pour concrete over it in the name of removing the weeds.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 09 Jan 2013 06:01

Some details on the fast-track courts: Old article (prior to the demise of the rape victim).

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fast- ... y-2-309195
The Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court, D Murugesan, has confirmed to NDTV that five fast-track courts will start functioning in the first week of January 2013.......These courts will be notified as soon as the Delhi High Court opens after vacation on January 2. There will be day-to-day hearings of all rape cases, including the gang-rape incident, and there will be no adjournments.
Initiatives on Community involvement:
Community involvement (IMHO) is a very major aspect of any solution that has to be applied in a city (large or small), or town, or even a colony. Simple things like getting involved with the local police station or doing some minor but public activities as a group e.g. a group of students, or lawyers, or retired citizens in a mohalla/colony/pettai. More serious stuff like keeping tabs on registered cases at police station etc. (as in the Tribune- Chandigarh article I posted above) would be the next step, if indeed if any such provision gets passed (if it does, it will only under public pressure).

1. DGP replies to questions (Hyderabad): "You can kill attacker if your life is in danger". This is the first time I've seen this in print, and coming from a ranking police official. http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 283942.ece
The Police Department has no wherewithal to provide unarmed combative training to all women in the State but a person can kill the attacker if she or he feels a threat to life, said DGP V. Dinesh Reddy on Monday. He was replying to a question posed by a woman employee as to what she can do if someone attacks her, at an interactive session with IT sector employees organised by the Cyberabad police. “Self defence is a right,” he said explaining that the law had that provision.
2. 'Parivartan' program from Delhi police: A non-confrontational approach by police to increase awareness. (Never heard of this program before, it was the idea of a police officer). Killed due to budget issues. http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... lhi-police
Parivartan made a promising start, using pantomimes and workshops to create awareness in schools, localities and police stations, sending women cops to patrol neighbourhoods and encouraging women to form a monitoring system in their locality. The cop who started Parivartan, Sagar Preet Hooda, says the number of rape cases in the districts covered by the programme fell every year between 2006 and 2010.
There is a notion, says Hooda, that rape, like murder, cannot be prevented. "That is not correct," he adds. "Rape is a learnt behaviour. It can be unlearnt. Parivartan was built on this belief that rape can be unlearnt."
3. Another instance of a local community doing something in their area: A group of women/school girls write their experiences on a wall in their area Bawana (where in Delhi is Bawana). Atleast they are publicly raising their voice.
Uma Devi, a collective coordinator, who is part of Delhi government's Awaz Uthao project, said, "We hold regular meetings with women and found that most of them face harassment of some kind while they go to school, work or even to the market. We decided to write down those experiences and paste them on walls, so that men who are generally found sitting or chatting there will think twice before harassing any woman."
This 'wall magazine' was put up in Bawana last month and following the gang rape incident, the Delhi government's social welfare department had asked all women collectives to put up such walls in every area.
No mention on how effective this has been in reducing eve teasing. But I have to believe it helped somewhat. Perhaps next time the HT reporter goes there, he might have a comment on its effectiveness.

Last, but not the least, parliamentary Affairs minister M.V.Kamal Nath called for fast-track courts for politicians convicted of heinous crimes. Found no support from any side. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 946731.cms
ADR has pointed out that MPs with criminal records had increased from 128 in 2004 to 162 in 2009. Their criminal offences had become more heinous too, including murder, rape and dacoity.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby krisna » 09 Jan 2013 07:11

harbans wrote:< snip>. Maybe hiring female cops is part of the solution they have come up with. Yet even hiring women does not take away the need for training sessions on sensitivity for both male and female police.
<snip>.

harbans wrote:<snip> So for low level lewdness, molestation we can be flexible not to treat even till a 19 year old as an adult, yet for any violent crime and assault, we treat even a 15 year old as an adult. Repeat offenses must be made clear will result in naming and shaming. Compounding of punishments. Focus s on the 15-19 year age groups must be sustained. Measures to keep focus need to be tabled. Things like respectful interaction at school and not segregation encouraged in all schools for example under watch.
<snip>.

In some states recently lady police in disguise are patrolling the streets esp looking for college going ones.
The police catch these road romeos making lewd remarks or groping-- make them do sit ups etc in public and shame them. they also report it to parents so that they can watch their son's activities.
So far many romeos/parents are compiling with it. Not sure how effective it will be and how long will it run.
But some baby steps towards this menace.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Anantha » 09 Jan 2013 07:40

Regarding the other thread that was locked.
Being a high profile and a fast moving subject, could Bradmins make that thread at least= a post articles/url's only thread with out any discusssions. It is very difficult keeping up with the different media reports. Thanks.. Ananth

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2013 10:10

Ananth, Please see this thread....
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6508

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Lilo » 09 Jan 2013 17:15

ramana wrote:Lilo, How does your data compare with this map from IBN?

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rape-map-of- ... 62-53.html


Ramana ji,
Great find. One thing for sure is that rape as a crime is very under reported in English news media.
On a average only ~7-8 unique rape incidents are being reported each day in the past 10 days of this period of heightened focus on crime against women in National media, as per the twitter feed. That translates to max of 3000 cases reported per year in News. Basically agencies like ANI,PTI etc and their vernacular equivalents track the crime on the ground level and file reports (after substantial filtering at this level too) and these filed reports are in turn purchased by the MSM selected based on the "saleability" of the news item. So more gruesome or perverted the crime more chances of that report being purchased and published in the print section.Rest all are dumped and never published.

Above fact is reflected in data from IBN site, ~25000 rape crimes reported to police in 2011, which is roughly 10 times the number rate reported as news in english media since the Delhi gangrape.

IMHO If we again multiply this 25000 reported to police by a factor of ten (=2.5 Lakh) to account for the cases where victims remain quiet and don't report to police, we will be in the actual extent of this crime per year.

Comparing the geographical distribution itself in both maps , nothing much can be said at this point - apart from both seem to show a greater reportage of rape in N.India than South. But it would have been better if CNN-IBN map was normalized and presented in percapita terms.
Last edited by Lilo on 09 Jan 2013 17:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Lilo » 09 Jan 2013 17:33

Theo_Fidel wrote:Ramana, I know what you are trying to do and I will not play this game.
Don't politic with this issue or you will find it going the AH way.... ..same applies to LILO... ..wise to keep all of India on your side.

Theo ji,
What do you mean by the bolded part ?
This is not the first time i saw this argument in one of your posts (the last time was in context of NAMO victory IIRC) since it has been repeated again here, it has definitely piqued my curiosity.
If you respond please do so in the OT dhaga. TIA

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 09 Jan 2013 20:24

The police catch these road romeos making lewd remarks or groping-- make them do sit ups etc in public and shame them.


The reality is different. In most cases cops, even women cops harass couples. Moral policing is a step backward. Cops must be trained and sensitivized too on these issues for effective reduction of public harassment of women and not legitimate couples that want to meet up in public spaces. Without adequate training cops will try and segregate rather than curb hooliganism against women.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SaiK » 09 Jan 2013 20:36

Basic safety begins at home and schools, and at the same time safety needs coordination from administrative setup. Police setup to social administration and public infrastructure has to jointly think about facilities, utilities, policies, rules and procedures in a whole process correction agenda for the nation as a whole.

This is like a culture, way of life education and can even think about various organizations like NGOs, and including political ones like RSS and VHPs, etc to indoctrinate a big change. Any deviation is really felt by the deviating force/men.

Now criminal prevention and how it may be handled requires, a real jump start to all these. We need to delink certain aspects of holistic corrections and the corrections needed for police-babu setup. Reorganization of police structure, how they report to chief of staff etc, and all the way down to beat cops. Think about even privatizing the police force, but still under the control of GoI, but administered on the lines of CBI, autonomous body, with least control from babudom.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 09 Jan 2013 23:30

HT:
School buses will be allowed to ply in Delhi only after police verification and all discotheques have been ordered to close by 1am by the Government in a bid to beef up security in the capital.


From a clueless babudom set up, i had previously anticipated increased segregation and measures that will increase regression in society. Why not close clubs at 9 pm? The last thing India also needs are men whose only chance to talk and approach a woman is his neighbors kids or extended or immediate family. The GoI has to understand it's a fundamental right for people to be able to spend time after hours responsibly. The cops don't want extra work. They are paid by people to help keep peace. I can suggest the best possible way to increase safety..impose curfew. After 6 pm license only those that are required to work. Keep a licensed army to ferry home food from restaurants that will be open till 9pM. Very little cops will be required. No women will come out. All rape will be confined within homes and neighborhoods. While we tackle ways to solve the problem, we must also fight the state that will attempt to take away fundamental freedoms and rights from people.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby darshhan » 09 Jan 2013 23:57

harbans wrote:HT:
School buses will be allowed to ply in Delhi only after police verification and all discotheques have been ordered to close by 1am by the Government in a bid to beef up security in the capital.


From a clueless babudom set up, i had previously anticipated increased segregation and measures that will increase regression in society. Why not close clubs at 9 pm? The last thing India also needs are men whose only chance to talk and approach a woman is his neighbors kids or extended or immediate family. The GoI has to understand it's a fundamental right for people to be able to spend time after hours responsibly. The cops don't want extra work. They are paid by people to help keep peace. I can suggest the best possible way to increase safety..impose curfew. After 6 pm license only those that are required to work. Keep a licensed army to ferry home food from restaurants that will be open till 9pM. Very little cops will be required. No women will come out. All rape will be confined within homes and neighborhoods. While we tackle ways to solve the problem, we must also fight the state that will attempt to take away fundamental freedoms and rights from people.


Harbans ji, This is what I earlier said. India and in particular Delhi is well on its way to becoming a Police state. Ofcourse it is another thing that crime rate will still be high. 'cause cops are more interested in using the laws and regulations to generate cash. The cure is much worse than disease.

But still people think that answer to rising crime is more cops and more regulations. I just pray to god that they get what they wish for and get all the experience living in a Police state.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 09 Jan 2013 23:59

Harbans

The amendment proposed.

In Evidence Act, defence lawyer is precluded from asking questions about character of the Victim and any such information can not be used as evidence against the victim to mitigate the crime of the accused.

Consent has to be demonstrated by the Accused once the fact of penetration is established.

Hows that for amendment. I see some chance of misuse for second point.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby darshhan » 10 Jan 2013 00:03

School buses will be allowed to ply in Delhi only after police verification and all discotheques have been ordered to close by 1am by the Government in a bid to beef up security in the capital.


No prizes for guessing what this "Police verification" is going to involve.

And even a retard can safely predict that many discotheques will continue to operate well after the closing time. Again no prizes for guessing how they will manage it.

But I really do admire our cops(along with politicians and Babus). They are champions when it comes to making money.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby chaanakya » 10 Jan 2013 00:11

Juvenile Act

Just some idea.

Age of Juvenile need not be lowered. It can be kept at 18 yrs ( the voting age and age for consensual sex)

The Juveniles who commit heinous crimes in the age group of 15-18 shall be tried as adult when involved in rape and murder or gangrape and murder or other crimes where penalty of life or death is prescribed. This clause be inserted as provisio to the Juvenile act section which deal with three years confinement in Juvenile Home.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2013 00:19

Darshan Ji, absolutely. During prohibition the Cop-Politician-Mafia nexus only rises. That's the group that makes the most money. For that nexus on which the GOI set up thrives, it's killing 2 birds with one stone, crating a police state and making money at the same time. Sad..

Consent has to be demonstrated by the Accused once the fact of penetration is established.


Chaanakya Ji, very hard the 2nd one. Bound to be abused a lot. But that is a tough one in many many cases. In many cases even consensual sex can be treated as rape. The 'Promise to marry' and have sex being called Rape is a disturbing trend. This is not an easy thing to solve. On one hand initiatives to make safety of women are paramount. On another we must not curb freedoms and endanger innocent men to abuse.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 10 Jan 2013 08:17

darshhan wrote: This is what I earlier said. India and in particular Delhi is well on its way to becoming a Police state. Ofcourse it is another thing that crime rate will still be high. 'cause cops are more interested in using the laws and regulations to generate cash. The cure is much worse than disease.

But still people think that answer to rising crime is more cops and more regulations. I just pray to god that they get what they wish for and get all the experience living in a Police state.
As far as I know, no person (common man) or group proposed these regulations i.e. closing discotheques at 1:00 a.m. If you are aware of it, please mention it. It is certainly not from a Lok Sabha bill as far as I know. One cannot blame people for this arbitrary regulation that has come up from somewhere in the bowels of the govt. These arbitrary regulations probably came from the police themselves. I dont know if there is a way to fight these random things that the police come up with...definitely agree this is not the right way to do. I dont know if it is even legal. Most of the proposed changes in law deal with punishment of convicted rapists; some of them deal with forcing police to register cases and not ignore them (see chaanakya's post).
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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby lakshmikanth » 10 Jan 2013 08:26

More retarded nandi-dropping from Sagarika Ghose:

https://twitter.com/sagarikaghose/statu ... 4851495936

On @face_the_nation #agendaforchange. Jamaat opposes co-education. But are co -ed schools essential to promote gender equality.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby RoyG » 10 Jan 2013 09:04

lakshmikanth wrote:More retarded nandi-dropping from Sagarika Ghose:

https://twitter.com/sagarikaghose/statu ... 4851495936

On @face_the_nation #agendaforchange. Jamaat opposes co-education. But are co -ed schools essential to promote gender equality.


Let it go Lakshmikanth. :lol:

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2013 21:56

Again abdication of responsibility clearly evident. I can imagine school authorities saying this, parents telling their children this. But DP telling this is a shame. It's the same telling all of us, go directly home after work. Don't go to a restaurant, club, don't drink. A comment in ToI sums it up well:

Police passes over the responsibility of protecting girls herself and to the parents, why dont you give them your guns and also your salary.


DP: Girls go home directly after School

In another case, Bollywood enforced wooing or harassment has caused another girl struggling in pain for her life with more than 80% burns..

Setting Girls on Fire for resisting latest UP trend

In addition to all these solutions we forgot one. The need to keep shaming those that think Jeans, T Shirts, watching a movie, talking on mobiles and enjoying the liberty of a free live is an invitation to rape.

SaiK
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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SaiK » 10 Jan 2013 22:04

Pre-adult law is what it should be called. Not juvenile law. So, the word adult is important there.

15-18 cases.

--

Prevention and Suppression of Crimes should go hand in hand with Judicial Law enforcements, and Well being of citizens. If there is little imbalance, one feeds into the other, and as a society we sink. It is again the time, will sure repeat this (or expect others to catch on), that we need to reorganize our police force and break this police-babu-goonda setup.

Go Pre-Adult Laws!
Go Break PBG setup!

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 10 Jan 2013 23:21

Not too happy with the HT writers choice. But the theme of the article should have been Big stars wooing girls over the decades has bordered on harassment, stalking, threats. This is the single biggest cause of acid being poured, burnt, slashed, killed by stalkers who can't take a NO from a girl.

Dabangg
Salman Khan starrer Dabangg (2010) shows Salman Khan as a chauvinist cop, who tries to woo his love interest Sonakshi Sinha. Despite her disinterest, Chulbul Pandey keeps talking to her and in one of the conversations where he gives her money for the pots, when she refuses, he replies: "pyar se de rahe hai, rakh lo, varna thappad maarke bhi de sakte hai”.

Biased Bollywood

And these Bollywood screwballs still think why they don't make it to the oscars?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SaiK » 11 Jan 2013 01:55


www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/when-ind ... epage=true

While the Chief Justice of India inaugurated a Fast Track Court (FTC) at Delhi and exhorted the High Courts to act likewise, a Bench of the Supreme Court, in Brij Mohan Lal vs Union of India and Others, 2005, allowed the Central and State governments to close down over 1,500 FTCs on the ground that funds were not available.

The winding up of these courts despite their fair performance and the huge arrears that needed to be tackled was justified by the central government on the incredible argument that the 13th Finance Commission had recommended a grant of Rs.5,000 crore for improving the justice delivery system and that out of this Rs.2500 crore was to be spent on courts working in shifts, Lok Adalats, the Legal Services Authorities, Alternate Disputes Resolution and the judicial academies for trainings. Thus due to the shift in perspective, money could no longer be spent on FTCs.

The mere fact that the FTCs have been discontinued should not deter the Chief Justice of India from reviewing this judgment on a Constitutional Bench and directing the Central and State governments to increase the budgets for the judiciary five times and appoint thousands of judges and establish thousands of courts. The judiciary has for many years taken the blame for delay in the dispensation of justice and the arrears in the courts. The time has come for the blame to be placed correctly — at the door of the Prime Minister of India.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby ramana » 11 Jan 2013 03:22

But same CJI headed bench sat on appeal on a rape case from Kerala for 8 long years!
And Chindu expects that CJI will move for fast track courts?

Is the media that siloed that they dont see the track record?

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Prem Kumar » 11 Jan 2013 05:00

Slightly good news in these distressing times. S. Varadarajan from Chindu apologizes for that drivel of an Op-Ed about Swami Vivekananda, masculinity & rape.

Social media works & public protest works (even if it was only 100 odd people protesting in Mount Road, Chennai - who also courted arrest by the way)

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a-note-to-readers/article4291269.ece

Also, read this parody by Aravindan Neelakandan. We need to go viral with the #Chindu hashtag

LAL SALAAM COMRADE EDITOR

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Theo_Fidel » 11 Jan 2013 06:48

Meanwhile....

http://www.ibtimes.com/delhi-gang-rape- ... ai-1005660

The Safest Indian City For A Single Woman Is Chennai

But not all of southern India was like that. When I moved to Chennai, in the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu, the city presented me with a pleasant surprise. Aside from the occasional staring, which now I know is a part of the Indian reality for women, men were remarkably well-behaved in Chennai when compared with those in Kerala.

After graduating from a college in Chennai, I went on to live in Hyderabad in the state of Andhra Pradesh, Mumbai in Maharashtra and Bangalore in Karnataka for study and work. Living alone in these metro cities all over India cemented my belief that Chennai was indeed the best and the safest to be a single woman.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Anantha » 11 Jan 2013 07:09


Bade
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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Bade » 11 Jan 2013 07:46

http://newindianexpress.com/nation/article1415963.ece
"Girls under the age of 18 years, who are forced to work in brothels, at present, are rescued and rehabilitated under the Juvenile Justice Act, but once the age is reduced to 16, police will arrest them and charge them with prostitution for no fault of theirs," Gupta told IANS.

"The reduction of age would certainly help the police as homeless juveniles are easy targets for them and can be easily implicated in false cases," he added.

According to the lawyers and activists, the government urgently needs to uniformly define a juvenile and an adult.

"Different laws have different definitions of adult; a person can have consensual sex at 16 but can marry only at 18 and consume alcohol only when he/she turns 25. we should not rush into a decision under pressure," Ranjana Kumari, Director of Centre for Social Research, told IANS.

"... even if you reduce the age to 16 and then a 15 year-old commits a similar crime, would you again reduce the age to 14?" she asked.

So, should such juveniles who commit heinous crimes be let off just because of their age? The group's opinions were divided.

Ranjana Kumari said that the punishment should be given according to the severity of the crime and not the age.

"In an exceptional case like the Delhi gang-rape, the juvenile may be given harsh punishment," she said.

Agreed lawyer H.S. Phoolka, who said that if a juvenile between the age of 16 to 18 years commits a heinous crime, the court can award a severe sentence irrespective of the age.

But as the debate cotinues, a public suit was filed in the Delhi High Court Wednesday on lowering the age of a juvenile.

Taking note of the petition, the Delhi High Court issued notice to the central government seeking to exclude from the purview of the Juvenile Justice Act those above 16 years committing serious crimes like rape and murder.

A division bench consisting of Chief Justice D. Murugesan and Justice V.K. Jain issued the notice through the ministries of parliamentary affairs and law and justice, and asked them to file their response by Feb 14.

Advocate R.K. Kapoor, who had filed the petion, said if juveniles above 16 years were involved in "heinous crime" like rape and murder, they should not be treated as juveniles and be given harsher punishment like adults.


The current three years is definitely too small a punishment. Imprisonment for life for heinous crimes in case of real minors should be the minimum. If above puberty age then treat the case as an adult, depending on severity of each case.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby Bade » 11 Jan 2013 08:27

A day in the life of a young New Delhi woman
Her favorite slogan from the protest, she recalled, was “No silence about violence.”

“It was as if my built-up anger and frustration at suffering sexual harassment silently over the years just boiled over,” Shukla said. “But after all the outpouring of anger in Delhi, the men have not improved, even now.”

As she reaches her women-only college, she points to a police jeep.

Some of these policemen stare at the students all day,” she said. “It made us uncomfortable. So the college principal had to request the police to park farther away from the gate.”
That summarizes the problem if law enforcement itself has deep issues a reflection on the society. :x

How to come up with solutions to such a widespread menace, and this is not about Delhi alone. Families have for ages come up with their own practical solutions as described in the article. Cell phones have helped enormously.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby devesh » 11 Jan 2013 21:45

there is a lot of truth to that article on Chennai. at least, there was, even up until 10 years ago.
my parents lived there for 5 years and I used to visit them during holidays and summer, and I must say, it's true, very rarely did you see any news of rape or sexual abuse.

there is a direct correlation to a historical aspect, but saying it out loud would make us communal.

for that matter, even Bangalore is pretty safe, IMVHO. Hyderabad used to be pretty safe until the late 90's, but situation has been going down over the past 10 years. it's probably still much better than Delhi, IMO.

Delhi always was the paragon and continues to remain so. pun intended onlee.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 11 Jan 2013 22:58

Seems true, i did too read a recent report that Chennai or TN had just 2 rapes that fall in the drag into cave/ car/ bus by stranger kind of rapes in a year. Rest were friends, uncles, brother kind of rape incidents. Whatever, it is clear that maximum rapes in India (~90% plus) are indeed not committed by strangers but by known people to the victim. So apart from the good policing, faster track courts and stuff, we clearly see that mindsets have to change, folks must get a chance to learn and interact with the opposite gender in a respectful manner at an earlier age. So it requires more avenues of interaction, not less while the state and families show more responsibility in training and educating young men on how to interact and respect the opposite gender.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby harbans » 11 Jan 2013 23:03

Another thing that i have observed for good or bad, this incident has garnered a lot of attention in other countries too. Some of the comments have been introspective of their own nation. One i remember from a middle aged US man, that he remembered in high school they had a scoring system. We tried to score with girls, it was not about sex, but keeping a score..and he regretted it. Said one must teach youngsters to interact with respect, it takes input and effort from society to do so. While we must discourage segregation type models, we must doubly stress on respect for the opposite gender too.

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Re: Solutions to Making India a Safer Place

Postby SriKumar » 12 Jan 2013 09:41

Some news on efforts to push the issue:

1. There's a Justice Usha Mehra panel taking suggestions from people. She's going to get an interim report out based on all the suggestions received so far. There seems to some sense of urgency given that an interim report is being released. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 986913.cms
While the panel will also give its full report in a few weeks from now, it wants to give an interim-report. "The panel wants to give interim report concerning the issue of women's safety in Delhi and other cities," Kumar told reporters here

2. A public meeting in Hyderabad (at some college) chaired by Siddharath 'Sid' Varadarajan of the Chindu fame. All the usual phrases of outrage are thrown around. I suppose this is better than not having a meeting at all. http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 300819.ece

3. More fast-tracking in Punjab& Haryana: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 300480.ece
Punjab & Haryana High Court Chief Justice A. K. Sikri on Friday issued directions to all courts in Punjab and Haryana as well as the Union Territory of Chandigarh to ensure day-to-day proceedings in cases of heinous crimes against women. According to a spokesman of the High Court, Justice Sikri had ordered that at least eight courts in Punjab and 11 in Haryana would be designated as “fast track courts” for trials in such cases. The High Court has also written to all District and Sessions Courts within its jurisdiction to organise meetings of different stakeholders including judicial officers, public prosecutors, police and representatives from the Bar to sensitise them about gravity of such cases where justice has to be speeded up.

4. ' Safety has to come back to the capital'- Two justices on the Supreme Court in response to a petition. All would agree. Now, what next?
A Bench of Justices K.S. Radhakrishnan and Dipak Misra made this observation while issuing notice on Friday to the Centre and the National Commission for Women on a public interest litigation petition seeking a direction to them to establish a Criminal Injuries Compensation Board
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 300580.ece

5. Election commission V.S. Sampath calls for an immediate ban on people with criminal records and pendings cases from contesting elections.
The Election Commission on Friday sought that convicted persons as well as those against whom charges of heinous crime have been framed by a court of law be immediately debarred from contesting elections. The EC call comes a day after the Supreme Court questioned the preferential treatment accorded to convicted MPs and MLAs as against an ordinary citizen held guilty on a similar count. We want it immediately, chief election commissioner VS Sampath said when asked whether the EC would like the new norms for curbing criminalization of politics to be enforced ahead of the next general elections.......
The proposals for de-criminalization of politics were reiterated by the EC in November 1999, July 2004 and October 2006 but electoral reforms have not yet come about.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 990169.cms


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