Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 04 Mar 2015 14:16

I think the video should be shown all across India. We need to spark the outrage and disgust and a deep thorough self examination in ourselves and question how did we let such attitudes prevail across society. I am not saying that most people share the same disgusting abhorrent attitude as displayed by the lowest of the lowest scum to breath air but to say that we have to be vigilant ever against such attitude and nip it in the bud.

Maybe the video will spur meaningful reforms of the laws and attitudes and say "Enough!" and do something about it.

One more thing, I am glad of this video because it demonstrates the faith and belief in the Indian justice system and the police. For a time, I thought we may have gotten the wrong people in the climate of overwhelming anger and calls for justice and perps to be brought to justice as so often happens in our history only to find out that we let the real bad guys get away. This time, we did not let the bad guys get away and the justice system worked exactly as it was supposed to do.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 04 Mar 2015 20:19

What about making a documentory about thousends of girls abused by pakis in uk with the help of police and other agencies. It would have been easier to do so for British director?

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 04 Mar 2015 21:50

BBC advances telecast of the controversial documentary on the December 16 gangrape. It will be telecast tonight at 10 pm (local time). @PTI on Twitter

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Mar 2015 00:16

Hitesh wrote:I think the video should be shown all across India. We need to spark the outrage and disgust and a deep thorough self examination in ourselves and question how did we let such attitudes prevail across society. I am not saying that most people share the same disgusting abhorrent attitude as displayed by the lowest of the lowest scum to breath air but to say that we have to be vigilant ever against such attitude and nip it in the bud.

Maybe the video will spur meaningful reforms of the laws and attitudes and say "Enough!" and do something about it.

One more thing, I am glad of this video because it demonstrates the faith and belief in the Indian justice system and the police. For a time, I thought we may have gotten the wrong people in the climate of overwhelming anger and calls for justice and perps to be brought to justice as so often happens in our history only to find out that we let the real bad guys get away. This time, we did not let the bad guys get away and the justice system worked exactly as it was supposed to do.

The video will do no such thing. You and I and maybe some elites in India speak this alien tongue called Brishit English. That is not the native tongue of those involved in the horrible event, neither can it be assumed that they would care for a documentary made in Brishit English. That is the case with a large majority of Indians. We are the outliers in India, and we are disconnected from the larger India precisely due to this language apartheid.

I have not seen the video, but let me make the prediction that this video will propagate every known stereotype about India, adding to it the new stereotype of the "Rapist Indian Male". This is the obsession of the white-skinned society these days, and it is bound to attract drain inspecting types like flies to a sweet.

After watching a couple of shows on BBC, anyone with a couple of functional neurons in his or her brain would realize that BBC (Brishit Bc Chorporation) is upto no good when it comes to India. Neither is any white-skinned person who is in India for "social" reasons. Out of the millions that do come to India for "social" reasons maybe 1 or 2 are truly good souls, the rest are nothing but carriers of pathological western ideals drawing heavily on racial studies. The kind of thought that, if expressed, may result in a call for a psychological evaluation instead of acceptance.

That said, I am all for awareness. However the way to do it is not having some Brishit moron do a documentary and set the narrative for us. We dont have to run the race that is setup by outsiders. We have to set up our own races and run them. This is nothing but an example of agenda setting by mofos in Brishitland and BBC.

The arrogance in advancing the broadcast shows just that. At some point or the other, squeezing Brishit nuts and destroying their agenda setting capability would become imperative for India's development. It is required for true freedom from colonization.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Mar 2015 00:25

I do hope that the book is thrown at everyone involved in giving "permission" to that Brishit drain-inspector and also that she is declared PNG in India. It is a harsh step, but a much needed one.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2015 00:33

LokeshC Have you seen the film version of EM Forster's "Passage to India"? It has the same stereotypes which you mention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Passage_to_India

And this for good measure!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype ... uth_Asians

....The stereotype of the Indian "dark-skinned rapist" occurred frequently in English literature of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The idea of protecting English "female chastity" from the "lustful Indian male" had a significant influence on the policies of the British Raj to prevent racial miscegenation between the British elite and the native Indian population. While most of these discriminatory policies were directed against native Indians, some restrictive policies were also imposed on British females to "protect" them from miscegenation.[49][50][51]

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Mar 2015 00:47

Exactly. THere was this "great" scientist or author in Brishitland who said that the darker the skin of the race was, the more sexually active they are and thus the more rapes there will be in such a society.

The do-gooders who come to India in order to "fix" India are the worst bunch of filth that ever walked planet earth.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 05 Mar 2015 04:13

Banning it is futile because once it has been released in one country it will be on youtube, dailymotion etc in no time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2015 04:53

From twitter comments looks like the BBC 'docu' aka p0rn has interviews with Sheila Dixit and Soniaji.

A whole of lot Delhi billis gave audience to a BBC reporter who wants to glorify a rapist mindset.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2015 05:13

Jhujar wrote:http://www.niticentral.com/2014/12/23/r ... 92683.html
Rape in India – Why it becomes a worldwide story

Rape is a terrible crime, a case where the victims are overwhelmingly women and the perpetrators overwhelmingly men. Every rape carries with it a personal story of trauma. To use statistics to speak about rape appears to dehumanize it into a number. Yet, when the mainstream news media is branding India into a “rape capital”, it is worth a pause. Maria Wirth, a German émigré to India wrote on how she found German TV disproportionately reporting a rape incident in far-away India, while a local rape was a small inside item. Similarly, a rape in a Cab in New Delhi made it all the way into the New York Times while an estimated 700 rapes on that day in the US merited no mention. This begs the question—is disproportionate coverage of rape in India justified? Or is it driven by an agenda?First, a look at the numbers. If we go by reported rape statistics, India has one of the lowest rates of rape in the world, sensationalist coverage notwithstanding. Here are the top 15 countries of the world by rapes per 100,000 people. We find that South Africa tops the chart in per capita rapes and Australia and the United States are in the top fifteen. (Note some of this data is from different years, based on available statistics. )If we just use the year 2010, the United States in the top 10 countries in the number of rapes. So is Sweden, right up there with Suriname. In Islamic countries under-reporting is a severe problem because of the difficulty of getting rape convictions in Islamic law. While the US is among the top countries in reported rape, still a majority (60%) of sexual assaults go unreported. Based on data collected by the US organization RAINN, factoring in unreported rapes, only 3% of rapists in the US would spend even one day in prison.
While low conviction rates and the difficulty of getting justice is given as one reason for low reporting of rapes in India, convictions rates are fairly low worldwide. The rate of rape conviction in the UK is only 6.5 percent in England and Wales, with a shocking low of 2.9% in Scotland. With such a low chance of conviction, women would be increasingly reluctant to go through the trauma of a rape trial and reporting rates would be depressed. India, by contrast, has a significantly higher rape conviction rate. While many countries, including UK and France, have shown a decline in rape conviction rate, India’s rate, despite a decline, is still several times higher than the UK at 26.4% with Delhi having a whopping 41.5% rape conviction rate, despite India’s notoriously inefficient justice system. A high chance of conviction would also have a positive affect on higher reporting. Thus the comparison of reported rape statistics cannot be dismissed out of hand, even though there are likely differences in reporting rates across countries. Given that caveat, let us see where India stand in reported rapes per capita in the table where the US is in the top 15.If not, we have to accept that the rank in this table, at least to some extent, reflects the actual rape rate. Along with India, Buddhist Japan and Hindu Nepal also find themselves near the bottom of the list.Why then this huge preoccupation with rapes in India in Western media and the Indian media echo box. A clue is found on this website a eiloftearsmovie.com. This is a Christian evangelical site, releasing a major film on “A Veil of Tears,” the plight of Indian women. The movie starts by dramatic accounts of the Delhi gangrape and starts to list a litany of ills in the “persecution” of India women and how it was important to save them. The agenda? The website is clear. They are explicitly marketing the movie to Church groups to collect funds and their partner is “Gospel for Asia.”“While the film, “Veil of Tears”, brings into focus the truth behind a dark reality existing in the world today, we are excited to highlight the hope being given to countless millions of women each day through the work and ministry of Gospel for Asia…We invite you to take a moment to learn more about the mission of Gospel for Asia and how you can be a part of our movement to rescue generations of women from persecution and rejection and into the hope of Jesus Christ.”The plight of Indian women is a marketing tool for the Global evangelical movement, that are shown explicitly using this to ask for money.Indian itself is the biggest target country in the Joshua Project, aimed at converting people between the 10-40 parallels. The missionary work is done on a war footing with detailed statistics about “unreached people,” every city and village with tribe and caste affiliations. India is the biggest and softest target. Most Islamic countries limit Christian missionaries, as does China. India is a unique place with the highest number of people to convert, the easiest access and the most naivete about the conversion war.Can this influence news reporting? As I point out in my research into the Conversion War, we have to remember the size of the money involved. The one-year revenue of institutionalized Christianity is estimated to be $260 billion dollars (2001) figures. iAbout a fifth of this, $47 billion, are allocated to global mission work every year.
A $250 billion corporate force with the support of the most powerful countries on the planet can create a lot of influence. People in India are especially susceptible to regarding Christianity as a benign force and the Christian narrative dominates the media. The demonization of India for rapes is part of this propaganda war. US missionaries are the biggest funders of evangelical activities in India and are pushing the narrative that Christianization is necessary to “save” Indian women from the “oppressive native culture.” Unfortunately Indian media is complicit in this global campaign. This when the US has 16 times the rape rate of India. Even if we consider that the actual Indian rape rate is 4 times what is reported, and the US reports every rape (research indicates it barely reports half), women in the US would still be 4 times more likely to be raped that in India. Whose culture needs saving? Why is the rape rate in Christian US so high? These are questions worth exploring. It is the Indian media and television channels that are part of the exploitation of this issue for sensationalist coverage. They have not been part of the solution. Rather the media’s own role in commoditization of women’s bodies for selling products, newspapers and channels should be under the scanner.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Mar 2015 19:42

Despite all this outrage in public over the Documentary , one thing has skipped notice. Supreme Crooks have been sitting on the appeal for last one year where as Sessions court delivered judgement within 7 months and HC delhi decided appeal in four months. I wonder why they axt with alacrity on Seetalwad telephonic arguments by Zero Minister of UPA2 for something as trivial as granting bail. While such a heinous crime is given pass. Supreme Crooks go about pontificating NaMo how he should speed up the things.

However , one thing seems to be sure SC would have no option but to reject the appeal and these four are going down fast. Well I hope so. And set a public example of quick execution and send message.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 05 Mar 2015 20:33

Even Indian women think that India is horrible for women's safety but the US/UK etc are safe havens. Of course, they don't consider that in the US, they always tend to be upper middle class and live in good neighborhoods with security. If they go to East (?) LA or South side of Chicago or some seedy areas of NYC, it will be different. I think childhood experiences have scarred a lot of Indian women, but they refuse to be balanced about their judgment and start extrapolating to Indian men in general vis a vis the honorable gentlemanly gora.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 05 Mar 2015 20:38

Irrespective of what anyone thinks of the documentary, lets not forget that there is also an underlying 'class struggle' of some kind. Many people dont find anything wrong when the rapist says the girl deserved to be punished in some way or the other, for watching movie with a boy at night. There are a lot of such people, lets not kid ourselves.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Mar 2015 20:50

Care to explain your "underlying 'class struggle' " comment in this context??

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 05 Mar 2015 21:02

Chandragupta wrote:Irrespective of what anyone thinks of the documentary, lets not forget that there is also an underlying 'class struggle' of some kind. Many people dont find anything wrong when the rapist says the girl deserved to be punished in some way or the other, for watching movie with a boy at night. There are a lot of such people, lets not kid ourselves.

Has that kind of view been at all expressed on any social media platform or TV / radio show or is this a sampling from the circles you move in ? That's quite a strong statement you are making...

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 05 Mar 2015 21:59

Chandragupta wrote:Irrespective of what anyone thinks of the documentary, lets not forget that there is also an underlying 'class struggle' of some kind. Many people dont find anything wrong when the rapist says the girl deserved to be punished in some way or the other, for watching movie with a boy at night. There are a lot of such people, lets not kid ourselves.

I don't know where you live but all people I have met found that statement offensive. You must be really living in some centuries old thinking place.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 05 Mar 2015 22:15

This doesn't look right, given the money involved is not that large.

PMO sees rape centres as 'waste of money'

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 05 Mar 2015 22:26

Arjun wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Irrespective of what anyone thinks of the documentary, lets not forget that there is also an underlying 'class struggle' of some kind. Many people dont find anything wrong when the rapist says the girl deserved to be punished in some way or the other, for watching movie with a boy at night. There are a lot of such people, lets not kid ourselves.
Has that kind of view been at all expressed on any social media platform or TV / radio show or is this a sampling from the circles you move in ? That's quite a strong statement you are making...

I believe he is referring to this kind of statement by the defense lawyers for this Mukesh Singh.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 451407.cms

In the interview said lawyer also goes on to say that he would (essentially) kill his daughter if she went around like the victim. Many politicians have also said the same (Google). Moron lawyer also volunteers this priceless bit of medieval mores :"In our culture, there is no place for a woman,"

Whose culture is talking about? He is not in a miniscule minority either. There are many other oiseaules like him in India (and elsewhere).

Such comments remind me of the paki rapists in OZ who used the same justifications ("raw meat").

I do hope Mukesh Singh gets the peach bottom treatment in the communal showers—with a broomstick.

In the US, or UK or most places, this lawyer would be disbarred.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 05 Mar 2015 23:14

ramana wrote:LokeshC Have you seen the film version of EM Forster's "Passage to India"? It has the same stereotypes which you mention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Passage_to_India

Ramana the sad part is that this book is supposed to be one I found the best books ever written liter ture wise and em Forrester is supposed to be a great writer.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 05 Mar 2015 23:20

I am conflicted about the docu. CNN is now going to town with it on the front page of the website with stereotypes about how in india "boys are of higher standing than girls" etc etc. The problem is that these guys don't know and don't care about the nuances and subtleties. It's like saying in the US brother and sister sleep together and have hex just because it happens in some communities in the deep south. They pick one example and extrapolate it to everyone. They dare not do that to Islam though, they will go out of their way to say how Islam means peace and how terrorism is only by "a few" muslims.

Anyway, I think that the prisoner should not be giving interviews. The previous administration slipped up there. But banning the docu does not work in today's world. It's now given it more publicity. The director was on NDTV claiming that she did India a favor by making the docu.

Oh thank you! What would we browns do without you gora/goris civilizing us!

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 05 Mar 2015 23:31

Actually the Lawyer is going to face disbarment proceedings in the bar council which is meeting tomorrow.His statements ahve been viewed very seriously by the Bar association of India

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 06 Mar 2015 00:04

The idea of 'banning' the documentary in this day and age, is stupid. It is only going to publicize the film and everyone will watch it on YouTube. I would have thought Rajnath Singh et al would had more sense.

If you want to pay the Beeb (and the producer) back, use the naming of the victim to file a case in Indian courts and exact a monetary on behalf of the family.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Mar 2015 00:26

Any link with Berkeley Haas Gora Daas Group yet ? Con-incidental release of Documentary when Eye Twicher Seetalvad is about 2b exposed in Adalat ?

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 06 Mar 2015 00:31

Dont shoot the messenger, I'm just saying that some people dont find any fault with the rapist's statement about the girl moving around with a boyfriend watching movies at night. And i dont live in a century old place, I live in the capital. Lets not kid ourselves, there is a large number of men that finds it offending if women move around freely and dare to demand equality. This happens in cities and villages alike. You are lucky if you have never ran into such men but I have.

SSundar · Post by **SSundar** » 06 Mar 2015 00:39

The documentary is now doing the rounds all around social media and is becoming the new "The Interview". It will soon become the patriotic duty of every American, European, Brit, Canadian and Aussie to watch it and share it with friends. Not one of my own friends - Indians included - on social media agrees with the ban.

It is a coordinated Denial of Service attack. The Modi sarkar cannot win this one. Even going after BBC, YouTube, Tihar officials, NDTV or Congees will be termed a witch hunt.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 00:40

vera_k wrote:This doesn't look right, given the money involved is not that large.

PMO sees rape centres as 'waste of money'

And saar., why do you put so much store in #mediapimps? The word "rape center" itself is a give away.

And yes, PMO stopped another NGO_ChorGiri. That is why the manufactured outrage. Can you check out what the "rape center" (sic) does?

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 00:41

SSundar wrote:The documentary is now doing the rounds all around social media and is becoming the new "The Interview". It will soon become the patriotic duty of every American, European, Brit, Canadian and Aussie to watch it and share it with friends. Not one of my own friends - Indians included - on social media agrees with the ban.

It is a coordinated Denial of Service attack. The Modi sarkar cannot win this one. Even going after BBC, YouTube, Tihar officials, NDTV or Congees will be termed a witch hunt.

If Modi Sarkar can take BBC and its cronies like rNDTV out of India., it has won big.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 00:44

Chandragupta wrote:Dont shoot the messenger, I'm just saying that some people dont find any fault with the rapist's statement about the girl moving around with a boyfriend watching movies at night. And i dont live in a century old place, I live in the capital. Lets not kid ourselves, there is a large number of men that finds it offending if women move around freely and dare to demand equality. This happens in cities and villages alike. You are lucky if you have never ran into such men but I have.

FYI., the victim was from the same class as the perpetrator. The balloon of "class struggle" was floated the moment this incident happened., but when it was found out that the victim was in the same "class" but an higher "caste" all this discussion about class struggle was shelved.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 00:46

Cosmo_R wrote:The idea of 'banning' the documentary in this day and age, is stupid. It is only going to publicize the film and everyone will watch it on YouTube. I would have thought Rajnath Singh et al would had more sense.

If you want to pay the Beeb (and the producer) back, use the naming of the victim to file a case in Indian courts and exact a monetary on behalf of the family.

Nobody has banned it. The court has requested that the broadcast be stopped till it disposes off Delhi Police FIR. Several laws were broken (now with publishing of victims photo and name - even the privacy laws) so the court has to take the case and deliver its judgement.

Or are you saying BBC, NDTV and Google are above Indian law?

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 00:50

KJo wrote: But banning the docu does not work in today's world. It's now given it more publicity. The director was on NDTV claiming that she did India a favor by making the docu.

Oh thank you! What would we browns do without you gora/goris civilizing us!

The director clearly proclaimed that Indian Society is a sick society. So congratulations., you and me as members of the sick society are sickos as certified by the British.

Now regarding "banning of documentary" - see various posts. Including one in the paid media thread. Several laws were broken. Let the court decide the next course of judgement.

BBC AND NDTV ARE NOT ABOVE INDIAN LAWS.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 06 Mar 2015 01:27

Doordarshan should make a documentary in English for these issues and distribute them all over the world (South, north america, etc) Sell them to NDTV or other Indian channels in USA/Canada/Australia and they will then show them. Also give tax break to the bollywood movies who depicts these issues.

1. Teenage rapes in England.
2. Date rapes in USA.
3. Disparity of Income between women and men in USA.
4. Violence due to guns in USA.
5. Obesity issues.
6. Family breakdown issues.
7. Blacks in Jails.
8. Drugs., etc.

There are million issues that should be counter on a case by case basis.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 06 Mar 2015 02:18

one can also add a news column or feature film called 'this day during British India' and present all the noble deeds they have done during that time on a day to day basis

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Mar 2015 02:28

posting in full.. this issue is very critical to India's representation of its values vs. How the western culture impedes that with its own agenda. 'll cross post it another appropriate thread as well.

India's Daughter: We need to go beyond BBC's nauseating moralising
http://www.firstpost.com/living/indias- ... 37593.html

The government's attempts to restrain the BBC from airing a documentary on rape, built around the story of the December 2012 Delhi gangrape victim (a.k.a. Nirbhaya), are pointless. It has effectively given BBC the opportunity to get higher viewership for their film, titled "India's Daughter", whose selling point is obviously the misogynist statements of the rapists (and their lawyers) who were interviewed for it.

The government’s response allows the BBC to adopt a high moral tone on how it is holding a mirror to Indian men's mindsets. Its tone is superior and nauseating: “This harrowing documentary, made with the full support and cooperation of the victim’s parents, provides a revealing insight into the horrific crime that sent shock waves around the world and led to protests across India demanding changes in attitudes towards women.”

As Indians, we should certainly not fight shy of acknowledging our own failings as a society, much less ban such films. The restraint order by a Delhi court on the screening of the film, however valid legally, demonstrates the impotence of the Indian state, and its inability to uphold its own laws, despite legislating so many of them.

A screengrab from the documentaryA screengrab from the documentary
The reason why the BBC documentary offends us is not its essential truth, but the ignominy of an outsider pointing it out to us. I am sure enough Muslims in India would be equally offended if we made a documentary showing how Indian Islam treats its women. The outsider's critiques are always unpalatable.

At another level, the documentary also illustrates the inability of the Indian state, and its ruling elite, to understand the workings of global power manipulators using money, media and the technology of power and influence to undermine us. The western world knows how to use India's own umpteen faultlines – of caste, gender and economic inequities - to undermine the emergence of a strong state which can implement the rule of law fearlessly. The west does not want a strong state to develop in India or else its own geopolitical agenda cannot be pursued.

Before one discusses these points, let me make my stand clear on two counts: I am against any kind of ban on media documentaries or artistic work, whatever the motives of its authors or their financial backers. Also, I hold no brief whatsoever for “sick male mindsets” that are a product of centuries of misogyny and patriarchy. Our first job as a society is to speed up the process of ending patriarchy and making boys and men develop genuine respect for women on the basis of equality and a shared partnership for the benefit of society.

But we also need to understand how power equations work globally, and if we do not understand this, we are forever going to be pushed around on the basis of foreign agendas masquerading as concern for human rights. Indians often do not understand when we are fighting injustices in our own society and when we may be furthering someone else's covert agenda to undermine us.

Take the rule of law and how little we understand it. We should also understand how it will be used against us to show up our weaknesses, while the west will commit the same crimes under the veneer of their rule of law.

Here’s one illustration: Fake encounters to eliminate troublesome criminals or terrorists are illegal both in the Indian and US context. In India, fake encounters are the result of a weak state. The police resort to it in order to overcome the failings of a corrupt and excruciatingly slow legal system and inadequate resources to gather foolproof evidence against criminals and terrorists. Whether it is Punjab, Gujarat or UP, fake encounters have been the short-cuts used to eliminate people against whom we can’t find enough legal evidence to arrest and convict.

The west will use this endlessly against us, helped, in turn, by human rights activists here. But do we know that the US also conducts many such extra-legal assassinations? Do we know that President Obama has himself signed scores of death warrants of people he thinks are terrorists, including American citizens? He has converted the CIA, a spy agency, into an assassination squad, which uses snipers and drones to kill enemies of the US state (read here).

The difference is this: while we will call our killings fake encounters, the US assassinations will be couched in legalities and presidential findings. This is what I call the effective use of the technology of power, where a patently illegal act can be sanctified by using verbal and technological techniques to paint it differently in India and the US.

Take another example. The Indian media and its western counterparts have talked endlessly about the Sangh’s “ghar wapsi” programme – making us cringe with shame. But what is ghar wapsi? A religious reconversion programme that’s been badly handled in front of the media. Can a liberal state ban ghar wapsi when it cannot ban religious propaganda or conversions away from Hinduism? The media painted ghar wapsi as some kind of unmitigated evil, but did not produce even one documentary on what the evangelical organisations are upto. Did the BBC produce any such programme showing the “missionary mindset” and the harm it is doing to societal cohesion in India?

Once again, the point to underscore is this: the west knows how to use media and technology to pursue its own agendas, overt or covert. But we are unable to separate the issues in our own minds. We are poor players in the technology of power, media management and soft influence.

Now, let’s come to the BBC documentary. Consider how the author protects her own country’s laws, but how we are unable to protect ours.

First, we give a foreign reporter access to rapists - an access we would not give to our own journalists. What does this say about our kowtowing to goras? We will subvert our own laws to curry favour with them.

Second, the journalist involved, Leslee Udwin, gets signed consent letters from the rapists before filming their statements on rape. This shows that Udwin knows she has to respect the laws under which the BBC operates. But did she show equal concern for Indian laws beyond obtaining permissions from the home ministry? Did our own government get her to sign a legally valid document specifying what she can do or cannot do with the interview? There may be a general letter somewhere intended to protect a babu’s backside, but it will probably be legally unenforceable against the BBC.

The facts are that Udwin sought the home ministry's permission to interview the convicts and understand their psyche. The Times of India says Udwin promised to use the footage solely for "social purposes" and give the footage to the authorities for vetting. Apparently only the edited version was shown. But the "social purpose" documentary was then sold to the Beeb. How come the babus in the home ministry did not understand that practically anything can be done in the name of “social purpose.”

Why did the authorities let the crew circumvent procedures? APWhy did the authorities let the crew circumvent procedures? AP

The question is: When Udwin did everything to follow the law back home in the UK, why did our home ministry not do anything to protect our laws and the rights of the convicts interviewed, when the appeal process is far from over? Such damaging releases of convicts' statements can work against their appeals, still pending in the Supreme Court, as the judiciary may now feel compelled to uphold the death sentences on these "sick minds". Would the legal system in the US or UK have allowed such a prejudicial airing of a convict's views before a verdict? Would defence lawyers not be screaming mistrial and attempts to bias the judge or jury? But we happily do this without regard to the law.

The Times of India quotes feminist lawyer Indira Jaising as claiming that the broadcast of the film “would amount to violation of Article 19(2) of the Constitution, Section 153A of IPC and Section 2(c) of the Contempt of Courts Act, 1971. ‘At present, the defendant's appeal against conviction and death sentence is pending before the Supreme Court; therefore, airing the documentary would amount to gross contempt of court,’” Jaising wrote to NDTV, which aired promos of the documentary containing the rapist’s statements.

Did the Indian home ministry not know the law before giving Udwin the right to interview convicted rapists? Now, by ham-handedly trying to prevent the BBC from airing it, it will even be accused of trying to curb freedom of speech, and shielding society from the plain unvarnished truth of “men with misogynist mindsets.” Two self-goals in one.

Udwin's interview to the Hindustan Times shows how well the foreign media establishment will use our own follies against us. Asked why she called the film "India's Daughter" when the title itself sounds patriarchal, she says: "Yes, but the victim was called India's Daughter by the press here and we are not allowed to name her in India."

Fair enough. But the media in India did not call Nirbhaya “India's Daughter" for the reason she cites. We called her India's Daughter because the idea evokes a strong cultural sense of protectiveness towards daughters in society, even though in actual practice we don't protect our vulnerable girls and women. When played abroad, India's Daughter will sound like an indictment of India and its society. The meaning of the title is subtly different in the Indian and western context. The west will use such documentaries to put us on the backfoot, questioning our intentions and undermining our national resolve to grow our defence or global clout, saying why not spend that money to protect your daughters?

Udwin also suggests that her efforts are unquestionable because "I am a rape victim myself." The assumption that a victim is best-placed to tell an objective story is questionable. Her own sense of anger might well have made her biased, but we can't say this without watching the film.

The BBC also says the film was done with the permission of Nirbhaya’s parents. Once again, such permissions mean little. Why would parents seeking justice for their child’s rape and murder not use any forum to air their views? How are they likely to know how the BBC will use their statements in the documentary? The BBC is a product of colonial attitude and funded by the British taxpayer. It loyalties will be to its audience, not India’s interests.

And is the problem our unwillingness to face “male mindsets” or something else? Do we not know what male mindsets are in India? Did we not create an entire commission under Justice JS Verma to look at gender justice? We even legislated a tough law that includes hanging for particularly vicious rape cases. (Read the Verma report here) We don't need to know what male attitudes are, we need to do something about them.

One reason why we have not acted against injustice as strongly as we should is the weak state, where the state finds it impossible to implement its own laws, given the pushes and pulls of a society with multiple kinds of injustice. A simple law to prescribe reservations for women in parliament is held hostage to OBC and Dalit concerns over their own dis-empowerment: attempts to tackle one injustice come up against another group’s sense of injustice.

Politicians use these faultlines to avoid implementing something that can only have a beneficial impact over the very long term. Our netas see more electoral returns in offering voters private freebies (laptops, tariff cuts) than in providing public goods (law and order, women's safety). A society split on caste or religious lines is unable to differentiate between action against criminals and actions against “our people, our caste, our religious group.” This is why a Lalu Prasad and J Jayalalithaa or Jagan Reddy, two of them convicted for corruption, continue to win elections.

Sex education, gender sensitisation and cleaning up the justice system are long-term solutions with no immediate political benefits for anybody. Effective policing and sensitive handling of rape and sexual harassment cases may possibly be the only actions that can have visible results in the short term - and these need to get first priority. But in all the anger over “male mindsets”, the inability of a weak state to take long-term corrective action is not seen as central to the issue of gender justice.

The real danger in all this breast-beating over “male mindsets” is that we won't do the important things that we need to do ensure gender justice. It is only a strong state (which is different from an authoritarian state) that can apply the rule of law and make things work. This needs a state to protect human rights, and not specific community rights, whether based on caste or gender or religion.

In the UK, for years teen girls in Rotherham were subjected to sexual abuse by Pakistani Muslim gangs, but the British police failed to act for fear of being branded “racist.” In other words, even in a society where the rule of law supposedly operates, the law could not prevent injustices to women and vulnerable girls. Udwin could well have written about these "male mindsets", but India is obviously a more enticing prospect.

The lessons we should draw from the BBC’s documentary on India’s Daughter are these: one, we have to develop a thick skin to their media machinations; two, we should focus on what we have to do to correct the injustices in our system and not be distracted by western moralising; and three, we have to develop our own sophisticated systems of giving it back to them in their own coin by developing long-term studies and capabilities to show up the west’s own hypocrisies.

Right now, they can hold a mirror to us, but we cannot do the same to them. They thus have moral power over us. We have not mastered the technology of power and media to achieve a balance.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 06 Mar 2015 02:33

vera_k wrote:This doesn't look right, given the money involved is not that large.

PMO sees rape centres as 'waste of money'

He is absolutely right. "Rape Center" itself perpetuates the myth that rape is rampant in India. Secondly there are enough NGO's and shelters that do step in now for assistance. Thirdly, why just rape, other type of violence also requires these centers if a precedence is set. Fourthly, what about male rape.

This very proposal is rife with problems. Good for PM

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Mar 2015 02:45

vera_k, rape centre is another of those poorly thought out but eye grabbing measures to counter a visible problem. much like hiving out CBI's terror investigation wing and calling it NIA.

as it stands now, it will be a waste of money. what we need is holistic improvement of L&O apparatus along with sustained efforts to improve social attitudes towards women.

would the rape centres catch rapists ? no.
can they deter rapists ? no.
can they educate rapists ? unlikely, but they can try if they get a lot of funding and manpower.
can they help rehabilitate rape victims ? see above.

whatever rape centres are supposed to do, women's commission is already supposed to do. at best, that apparatus can be extended to each district for a more prompt response.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 06 Mar 2015 02:59

A mature response would have been to say "We acknowledge that there is an underbelly of society both in India and in other countries that engages in depraved sexual violence. All open and tolerant societies with the problem of sexual violence need to do some soul searching and find solutions to this problem. We appreciate the BBC in playing a role to help with this worldwide epidemic"
Instead they ban, give more publicity and look like a bunch of morons trying to hide something and have turned this even more into an India-specific problem. Not impressed with the tact taken by the government.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Mar 2015 03:29

Banning was the stupidest most ham fisted thing GoI could do. The film is worth watching - I just finished watching it. But what needs to be also taken carefully into account that it is a drain inspector's report. BBC and that British director have ZERO interest in the plight of rape victims. All they care for is a further tom-tom'ing of gora superiority and a neo modern version of White Man's Burden.

GoI should have allowed the movie to be shown and made a statement like: "India stands together with the rest of the Free World in fighting this epidemic of rape whether in Delhi, India or Steubenville, USA". Instead the GoI has succeeded in further reinforcing the stereotype of Indian males as a bunch of female hating uncivilized natives whose sole motive in life is to rape the fair skinned daughter of the civilized west.

Once just after the Delhi rape protests, one gora colleague/friend in faux concern asked me "Rape is a huge problem in India, isn't it?". I answered, "Yes it is. In fact if we keep going down that trajectory, we will catch up to the United States in 5-10 years." That caused him to STFU pronto.

We SDREs need to start being pragmatic and thinking with our heads instead of trying to be a Mahatma in the eyes of the world. The only time someone gets universally proclaimed as a Mahatma by the world is when that person is a napunsak who can be kicked around to do everybody's bidding.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 06 Mar 2015 03:50

@Madhusudhan
@RajaBose

Excellent points! The film makers should never have been given access to film in India in the first place however once the horse had bolted the reaction by Delhi Police and Rajnath Singh has been really ill thought out and counterproductive.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Mar 2015 05:03

prasannasimha wrote:Actually the Lawyer is going to face disbarment proceedings in the bar council which is meeting tomorrow.His statements ahve been viewed very seriously by the Bar association of India

Excellent. Very positive news indeed.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Mar 2015 05:08

Raja Bose wrote:
Once just after the Delhi rape protests, one gora colleague/friend in faux concern asked me "Rape is a huge problem in India, isn't it?". I answered, "Yes it is. In fact if we keep going down that trajectory, we will catch up to the United States in 5-10 years." That caused him to STFU pronto.

We SDREs need to start being pragmatic and thinking with our heads instead of trying to be a Mahatma in the eyes of the world. The only time someone gets universally proclaimed as a Mahatma by the world is when that person is a napunsak who can be kicked around to do everybody's bidding.

Sir, before you advocate pragmatism on the count of GOI., just note that the case is still sub-judice and the perpetrator can ask for a mis-trial since he can say he was misquoted or led to a misquotation and now the world is prejudiced against him. In fact as proof, even his own lawyer is facing suspension for utterances beyond his control.

So given the above line - should GOI advocate that the documentary should be watched?

This was a well laid mine field by the previous government. The mine has started ticking, it has not blown up yet. It will blow up when the SC will

a. Decide to hang the perpetrator., all the assorted NGOChors will come out against capital punishment.
b. Decide not to hang the perpetrator., all the assorted NGOChors will come out for capital punishment.

Not all are pragmatic like you. Several just watched to see the victims face and get her name. If that is not atrocity *****, do tell me what it is. So victim's privacy can be trampled for "pragmatic" purposes?

The only option for GOI is to pursue due legal process (which is not the same as a pragmatic process) and get rid of NDTV and BBC from India. This should be used to send a legal bamboo of the Mamta kind to the assorted #mediapimps.