Delhi Case Follow-up thread

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ravip »

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:First get those lawyers debarred by Bar Council for repugnant remarks unbecoming of profession. Next go through the chain of approvals in MHA and jail system including politicians.
Those lawyers have been paid to speak like that. No legal moron would take such a position publicly knowing the speech to be against morality and laws. Both are ugly, ill spoken and disreputable. This is the impression that they (BBC) have deliberately exploited

The two scum lawyers may not have fully gamed the (hopefully) disbarring by the Bar Council. This will hit their livelihood right in the testimonials.
Why spread lies, they both have publicly stated exactly the same statements even before BBC thought of doing the documentary. Check this video. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl6FgIMd68I[/youtube]

It is just our shameless Bar council wakes up from its slumber and realizes after the same statements were made to a foreign channel.

It is a good documentary, at least i learnt from the documentary that Nirbhaya was raped and assaulted to teach her a lesson for roaming around with boy friend at night and no matter how good the police patrolling is this can happen to any girl on the street. It is only the change of mind set which can improve the situation.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

ramana wrote:First get those lawyers debarred by Bar Council for repugnant remarks unbecoming of profession.
The bar council should have taken action against him right at the first time when that "lawyer" had made such comments which IIRC was made by him after the trial court gave it's judgement but the thing is that the bar council is itself a big mafia, they including the judiciary form the most corrupt organizations in India. The corruption in any other institution(s) will look chillar exchanging hands in front of the corruption in our judiciary.

Off course all of this is kept under wraps in the name of protecting "independence" of judiciary which is basically a Nehru-Gandhi secular argument to protect their backsides.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32431
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chetak »

pankajs wrote:Just get permission to telecast in India on DD. Shouldn't be an issue in US in the name of spreading the message on this worldwide issue. I am not being sarcastic here.

While you are at it get the docu abt "rape is one of the perks of the job" from ABC too. Telecast it in full without any edits and then put the "rape is one of the perks of the job" in loop and add some mirch masala about 10+x rapes in US, lower conviction rates, the girl lugging her bed around as a mark of protest, etc. Throw in a book thumper or two like Todd "Legitimate rape" Akin who can talk about god, the book and rape in a single sentence.

Invite a bunch of morons and have them vent for days together. That's what the BBC has planned so follow their script except for the content.
One would have to pay good money to get the damn thing
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

ravip wrote:It is only the change of mind set which can improve the situation.
I have seen this statement made by a lot of Caucasians as well as Indians about "change of mindset". What I don't understand is whose mindset is being asked to change ??? The criminal or the society ???

If it is of the criminals then I would like to know how the mindset of a criminal can be changed before the crime has been done ??? What practical solutions are being proposed by this "change of mindset" group ???

If the statement is directed towards the entire Indian society then how is the mindset of the entire Indian society being judged by the mindset of few criminals ??? Why is the Indian society being stereotyped for the crimes of few ??? How can the crimes of few describe the mindset of the entire Indian society ???

I expect answers to the above questions from the "Change of mindset" group.
ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ravip »

Sagar G wrote:
ravip wrote:It is only the change of mind set which can improve the situation.
I have seen this statement made by a lot of Caucasians as well as Indians about "change of mindset". What I don't understand is whose mindset is being asked to change ??? The criminal or the society ???

If it is of the criminals then I would like to know how the mindset of a criminal can be changed before the crime has been done ??? What practical solutions are being proposed by this "change of mindset" group ???

If the statement is directed towards the entire Indian society then how is the mindset of the entire Indian society being judged by the mindset of few criminals ??? Why is the Indian society being stereotyped for the crimes of few ??? How can the crimes of few describe the mindset of the entire Indian society ???

I expect answers to the above questions from the "Change of mindset" group.
As you have seen Caucasians making statement about mindset, did they make such statements only with respect to Indian society or in general applicable to the whole world. But however I stated with keeping in mind the patriarchal system in place around the world. When i speak about mind set i refer to people who believe in patriarchal system and practice it, irrespective of men or women.

I agree with you when you say that mindset of criminal is not known before he commits crime, but i find the change of mindset and sensitization about women and her rights would go a long way in reducing such crimes. Yes I know it takes a time to do so, but it is a step in the right direction and the emphasis to change the mind set should be part of our daily life, something like national anthem is part of our life at schools or in the prayer before food.

The person who looks down upon women or harasses just because she is a women should be made to realize by the good society (who doesn't believe in patriarchal system) that he is being wrong morally then and there. Situation should be created where a person committing such crime should think of consequence before doing it. If moral science doesn't work with them then the society has to keep them away, there are many ways to do it. I consider something to be wrong mindset when a person stares at women on the streets with bad intention, men when in groups make derogatory remarks about women even when they know they are false, assaulting women when she is physically weak than him etc. I believe in giving 50% reservation to women in every sphere of the society for the crime committed by the society(including me) in allowing patriarchal system to be in practice for 1000's of years and continue even today.

Never in my statements above or any time before this i have referred only to Indian Society, i am making the statements referring to society which believes in patriarchal system. Whether it is the CEO Microsoft or any western icon or society that has such mindset, i refer to them. Why should we always make it the West vs Indian society, our society is far ahead in protecting the women rights, in our society we don't change our wife like clothes, in our society marriage last longer than in the western society. We do disservice to our society and conscious if we don't accept the problem and try to find solutions to solve it. There is no point in playing this victim card of we are being targeted, Pakistan does it every time when there is a criticism they are a sic society with regressive mindset, and if we indulge in the same then what is the difference between being a Paki or SDRE.

It's not that western world has not made documentaries or films showing their own regressive mindset, there are award winning movies about whites discriminatory practices against blacks, harassment against women at work place or martial relations etc...

You might find my reply a lecture, but that is what i think is right.

Check this out:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A[/youtube]
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Arjun »

Ravip, the flaw in your argument is this.

India is a massive subcontinent - it is the nation with the second largest population in the world and soon to be the largest. Finding a handful of extreme fruitcakes who subscribe to the most horrendous beliefs has frankly, never been and would never be a challenge - just given our vast population and immense diversity.

You want me to make a hard-hitting documentary on cannibalism in India - you bet I can find a handful of Aghoris to sign up. You want me to make a tell-all on sex and religion - I can find a handful of Trantric gurus who would be more than happy to spout outrageous (by normal family standards) beliefs on air.

Are you going to jump up and down each time somebody attempts a hit job and claim that the above PROVES rampant cannibalism in India or that Indian culture explicitly encourages the mixing of sex and religion ?

No - what we need first is data, authentic data. This data needs to come from a PEW-like survey that systematically and scientifically tabulates Indian attitudes (whether towards women or religion or caste or whatever attribute) and makes these public on a regular basis. These surveys need to particularly focus on analyzing the difference in attitudes across regions, religions and communities in India - just given the vast differences across the subcontinent.

Once this is done - THEN, and only THEN, do we have any base data to come to conclusions about where, if any, the problem lies. Solutions (ie change of mindset in the affected regions / communities) would depend crucially on getting the analysis right.

I would suggest that the do-gooders rein in their natural impulse to vent - and focus on pushing the government / nationalist NGOs for getting these surveys initiated.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59810
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

Is the attitude of the men towards rape conditioned by long exposure since 1192 to Islamic marauders? Many social customs were changed: ghungat, marriage muhurat times zenana culture of segregation so on and so forth.

Former President Prathiba Patil had spoken against the veil culture and how its not a time immemorial custom.

So these fellows are crypto Islamic marauders in mind set.
I think ravip is alluding to this.
ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ravip »

Arjun wrote:Ravip, the flaw in your argument is this.

India is a massive subcontinent - it is the nation with the second largest population in the world and soon to be the largest. Finding a handful of extreme fruitcakes who subscribe to the most horrendous beliefs has frankly, never been and would never be a challenge - just given our vast population and immense diversity.

You want me to make a hard-hitting documentary on cannibalism in India - you bet I can find a handful of Aghoris to sign up. You want me to make a tell-all on sex and religion - I can find a handful of Trantric gurus who would be more than happy to spout outrageous (by normal family standards) beliefs on air.

Are you going to jump up and down each time somebody attempts a hit job and claim that the above PROVES rampant cannibalism in India or that Indian culture explicitly encourages the mixing of sex and religion ?

No - what we need first is data, authentic data. This data needs to come from a PEW-like survey that systematically and scientifically tabulates Indian attitudes (whether towards women or religion or caste or whatever attribute) and makes these public on a regular basis. These surveys need to particularly focus on analyzing the difference in attitudes across regions, religions and communities in India - just given the vast differences across the subcontinent.

Once this is done - THEN, and only THEN, do we have any base data to come to conclusions about where, if any, the problem lies. Solutions (ie change of mindset in the affected regions / communities) would depend crucially on getting the analysis right.

I would suggest that the do-gooders rein in their natural impulse to vent - and focus on pushing the government / nationalist NGOs for getting these surveys initiated.
Yes i agree that people committing these crimes may be handful but that should not stop us from correcting them or stopping such crimes. It is not only about India or some other country but society at large. It is irrelevant whether some people agree with our cause or not because there are countries like Saudi who justify harassment of women but this should not stop the movement. Our resilience to accept mistakes and find solutions what makes India a great country and not by banning the documentary.

Your reply under tones that the documentary is a hit job, i disagree with you on this. To question the motive behind the documentary, even after knowing what is said in the documentary is true will be like being false to oneself. The documentaries will help people understand the problem and keep them alive and fresh in peoples mind. Jumping up and down is very much necessary or else progressive movements will die down with out any effect on anyone.

You can equate Rape with cannibalism etc....and come to conclusion that such crimes happen very rarely and only handful of people commit it but that should not stop us from finding solutions to both problems.

With reference to hit job: Banning the documentary makes you to stand in conflict with solving rape or assault on women, and GOI is not a small kid to not to know this. Yesterday was listening to Sambit Batra of BJP on NDTV stating that it is the court which has ordered ban, with these kind of statements emerging it seems the GOI has started to wash their hands off from the episode. The GOI will have to face embarrassment if tomorrow some higher court revokes the ban (which is most likely) and it is screened on all prime time television channels. The present Govt has and is taking decisions in haste, i don't know is it because of lack of experience or ego.

Yes i agree with you on the need to collect data of crimes extensively to effectively fight the evil.
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8264
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by disha »

ravip wrote: It is a good documentary, at least i learnt from the documentary that Nirbhaya was raped and assaulted to teach her a lesson for roaming around with boy friend at night and no matter how good the police patrolling is this can happen to any girl on the street. It is only the change of mind set which can improve the situation.
Wow! So the criminal justifies after the crime and blames the victim and for you that is a lesson learnt!!! So what and whose mindset you are trying to change?

Have you read the Justice Verma report? Instead of watching the documentary and then justifying your need to watch the documentary by stating that "lessons" were "learnt" and the rest of the society "has to only change the mind set"? I think that is a stretch.

When parents advice their kids (mostly girls) to not go out "roaming around at night"., that is somehow a societal failure? Maybe you have not stepped out at night in US or Aus or European campuses - where the advice from the Dean/VC/Security/Profs is if you plan to step out - call in a security beat. Yes even to go to the parking lot! That is no different from parents advising their kids to not go out "roaming around at night". Further, Delhi is a metropolis - not some tribal area. This was a failure of Sheila Dixit's Government and Governance.

I you have any doubt., read up Madhu Kishwars articles on her stay in Gujarat and what women empowerment can do.

The criminals were just that, criminals. They committed a crime and they needed a justification to themselves to commit the crime. Basically they went, raped and killed and then blamed the victim and you learnt the lesson that the "criminal here has blamed the victim" and hence "future criminals" have to change the mindset?!

Here is my accusation to any and all BR Forumites who have watched the video (mostly illegal now)., all who has watched the video were to a great degree satisfying their internal voyeurism. Defend that! :)
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8264
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by disha »

ravip wrote:Your reply under tones that the documentary is a hit job, i disagree with you on this.
Documentary *was indeed* a hit job. I disagree with you on that the documentary was "not a hit job". It was illegal to begin with and it was telecasted illegally and watching it is also illegal. Better lessons are learnt by reading Justice Verma report than watching a sick illegal documentary meant for commercial purposes under the guise of societal do-goodness.
With reference to hit job: Banning the documentary makes you to stand in conflict with solving rape or assault on women...
Needless and unnecessary & useless extrapolation. The above is an ad-hominem attack.

0. Prove that the documentary was banned. Documentary is not "banned". Till all legal disputes are settled, it cannot be broadcasted.
1. The documentary is illegal. It has been proved beyond doubt.
2. Asking for an illegal documentary to be taken out of circulation is the right thing to do - it has nothing to do with "society should allow FOE"
Yesterday was listening to Sambit Batra of BJP on NDTV stating that it is the court which has ordered ban, with these kind of statements emerging it seems the GOI has started to wash their hands off from the episode.
Again unnecessary extrapolation on the bolded part. The court has indeed ordered that "the documentary cannot be broadcasted since there is legal truth in the Delhi Police FIR and until the legal case is settled". BJP or GOI or you or me cannot do anything on that. And yes, Delhi Police is correct - laid rules were broken with impunity. Including the privacy laws of the victim.
The GOI will have to face embarrassment if tomorrow some higher court revokes the ban (which is most likely) and it is screened on all prime time television channels. The present Govt has and is taking decisions in haste, i don't know is it because of lack of experience or ego.
For the bolded part: Explain How? If you are embarrassed, why is your embarrassment - GOIs embarrassment? Or are you the GOI?

For the underlined part: Prove it if it was a decision in haste! The GOI did the best thing.
Yes i agree with you on the need to collect data of crimes extensively to effectively fight the evil.
Please read Justice Verma report.
eklavya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2162
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 23:57

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by eklavya »

I watched the documentary (BBC iPlayer). Its a good documentary and I don't think it is anti-India. Yes, it is about a horrible sexual crime committed in India. The sad truth is that horrible sexual crimes are committed in every country. More importantly, the documentary shows a lot of Indian voices that are strong advocates of women rights. Focussing on the sick comments of the convicted criminal and his idiotic lawyers is a waste of time. These sickos represent no one but themselves. Its more important to focus on the reaction of civil society to this crime.

The comments made by Justice Leila Seth (Vikram Seth's mother) were very interesting. She said that if young people want change, the change will come. That is an important message.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

ravip wrote:As you have seen Caucasians making statement about mindset, did they make such statements only with respect to Indian society or in general applicable to the whole world. But however I stated with keeping in mind the patriarchal system in place around the world. When i speak about mind set i refer to people who believe in patriarchal system and practice it, irrespective of men or women.
Regarding caucasians making statements about mindset in Indian society I would like to point out the just released document by a caucasian women posing as a well wisher of Indian women has made a lot of statement regarding the mindset of Indian men where she has not only stereotyped the entire Indian society but has also brought in her christian bias towards followers of other religions and tried to paint the matter as a fault of Hinduism. A lot has been posted about the same on this board itself so help yourself. As far as the caucasian view regarding rapes in India, one simply needs to put in the required parameters in a search engine and one will see the "burden" white men and women are carrying.
ravip wrote:I agree with you when you say that mindset of criminal is not known before he commits crime, but i find the change of mindset and sensitization about women and her rights would go a long way in reducing such crimes. Yes I know it takes a time to do so, but it is a step in the right direction and the emphasis to change the mind set should be part of our daily life, something like national anthem is part of our life at schools or in the prayer before food.


What you say about changing mindset is all fine and would surely make up for a good lecture in some tea party but you have skirted the most important question that I asked,
What practical solutions are being proposed by this "change of mindset" group ???
Your reply doesn't have any practical solution proposed but some fancy la la land talk about "emphasis to change the mind set should be part of our daily life, something like national anthem is part of our life at schools or in the prayer before food". Is this the solution that you are proposing ??? Are you proposing a "Change mindset" prayer sort of thing ??? If yes then please explain your solution in a more detailed fashion.
ravip wrote:The person who looks down upon women or harasses just because she is a women should be made to realize by the good society (who doesn't believe in patriarchal system) that he is being wrong morally then and there. Situation should be created where a person committing such crime should think of consequence before doing it. If moral science doesn't work with them then the society has to keep them away, there are many ways to do it.
I think your remark about "creating situation" means that we need to have a more robust law and order machinery which I agree that we lack. But what about western world who supposedly have a slick law and order machinery but still the data regarding the no. of rapes happening there puts the data from India into shame. Western world with all there "honest", "not racist", "everybody is equal in front of the law" machinery hasn't been able to do shit about bringing down the no. of rapes infact they are the ones who top the rape chart so I think I am won't be wrong if I say that even a slick law and order machinery isn't good enough to stop rapes from happening. When law and order isn't good enough to stop rapes then we are again back to square one. So what options do you propose for the society to keep such elements away ???
ravip wrote:I consider something to be wrong mindset when a person stares at women on the streets with bad intention, men when in groups make derogatory remarks about women even when they know they are false, assaulting women when she is physically weak than him etc. I believe in giving 50% reservation to women in every sphere of the society for the crime committed by the society(including me) in allowing patriarchal system to be in practice for 1000's of years and continue even today.
Will you consider it wrong mindset if womens stare at men on the streets with "bad intention", women in group make derogatory remarks about men even when they know they are false, assaulting men when he is physically weak (or something like that).

If not patriarchal system then it is a matriarchal system which takes it place. So what will you propose then, 50% of reservation for men ??? The society will have always a system in place since there cannot be a power vacuum at the top, one way or the other one gender will dominate the society and no amount of wishful thinking about creating a power balanced society is going to change this. Reservations as a tool to create equality has been a total failure as can be seen by the reservation given based on caste which has totally failed to remove caste bias in the Indian society. The only reason why it has come down is because of the rising education level which makes an individual capable of independent thinking and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why caste bias is bad and inhuman. So if lessons are to be learned then reservation as a tool to empower women is a poor strategy and we have had reservation for womens in education for a long time.
ravip wrote:Never in my statements above or any time before this i have referred only to Indian Society, i am making the statements referring to society which believes in patriarchal system. Whether it is the CEO Microsoft or any western icon or society that has such mindset, i refer to them. Why should we always make it the West vs Indian society, our society is far ahead in protecting the women rights, in our society we don't change our wife like clothes, in our society marriage last longer than in the western society. We do disservice to our society and conscious if we don't accept the problem and try to find solutions to solve it. There is no point in playing this victim card of we are being targeted, Pakistan does it every time when there is a criticism they are a sic society with regressive mindset, and if we indulge in the same then what is the difference between being a Paki or SDRE.
If it's not west vs. Indian society then why are you showing your anger regarding the rape situation in India only when an illegal documentary about rapists view on womens is aired by western press ??? Aren't you capable enough to put forth your views irrespective of whether there is a western documentary or not ??? Why these long lectures post the airing of an illegal documentary by western press ??? Where was your anger till now ??? Is your anger only flamed when caucasians want them to be flamed ??? If you trust the Indian society in protecting womens rights then why are you defending and praising a documentary which not only stereotypes Indian society but also subtly follows the christian agenda of showing Hindus in poor light ???

At the end you defend your stance by bringing in Pakistan and doing an == with India. You think this argument of yours is rational and will pass muster ???
ravip wrote:It's not that western world has not made documentaries or films showing their own regressive mindset, there are award winning movies about whites discriminatory practices against blacks, harassment against women at work place or martial relations etc...
And caucasians should stick to that only, they haven't been appointed as global cops to lecture everybody regarding what they should do or not. Criticism is welcome but propaganda is not and caucasians indulge in a lot of propaganda, this recent "documentary" being a good example of one.

Indian society is capable enough of handling it's own problems it doesn't require caucasians to come and play unasked for saviours. So thanks but no thanks !!!
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Arjun »

ravip wrote:Yes i agree that people committing these crimes may be handful but that should not stop us from correcting them or stopping such crimes. It is not only about India or some other country but society at large. It is irrelevant whether some people agree with our cause or not because there are countries like Saudi who justify harassment of women but this should not stop the movement. Our resilience to accept mistakes and find solutions what makes India a great country and not by banning the documentary.

Your reply under tones that the documentary is a hit job, i disagree with you on this. To question the motive behind the documentary, even after knowing what is said in the documentary is true will be like being false to oneself. The documentaries will help people understand the problem and keep them alive and fresh in peoples mind. Jumping up and down is very much necessary or else progressive movements will die down with out any effect on anyone.

You can equate Rape with cannibalism etc....and come to conclusion that such crimes happen very rarely and only handful of people commit it but that should not stop us from finding solutions to both problems.

With reference to hit job: Banning the documentary makes you to stand in conflict with solving rape or assault on women, and GOI is not a small kid to not to know this. Yesterday was listening to Sambit Batra of BJP on NDTV stating that it is the court which has ordered ban, with these kind of statements emerging it seems the GOI has started to wash their hands off from the episode. The GOI will have to face embarrassment if tomorrow some higher court revokes the ban (which is most likely) and it is screened on all prime time television channels. The present Govt has and is taking decisions in haste, i don't know is it because of lack of experience or ego.

Yes i agree with you on the need to collect data of crimes extensively to effectively fight the evil.
Ravip, you essentially make three points in your post above -
  • 1) That GOI made a mistake by "banning" the documentary
    2) That the video was not really a 'hit job'
    &3) That showing the video will have a salutary effect on governance (wrt crimes against women)
I disagree with you on each of the three points. Let me explain why
GOI made a mistake by "banning" the documentary
Most important point to understand - some folks, especially in the West, believe that India wants to avoid a debate on the issue of rape and crime against women. I seriously doubt that to be the case. Firstly, Modi's statements over the past few months strongly indicate that his government is FOR initiating a societal debate on crime against women. Secondly, the RSS, as you probably know, has some very definite and strongly held views as to why there has been a increase in crime against women approaching the levels seen only in the West. It would actually appreciate any opportunity to publicize these views - so I really think the Western press has got it wrong on this. Modi and the RSS WANT a debate on the topic of crime against women.

So, why then "ban" the video - because (leaving aside the undeniable SC ruling that they had to obey) - this move enables them to kill two birds with one stone. They DO manage to initiate the debate that they want (their action of 'banning' actually helps to increase the quantum of debate in the country) and secondly - they hold on to their principle of NOT providing a mass media platform both to this horrendous rapist as also to the known racist media organization sponsoring the hit-job. In sum, I believe that the GOI move has actually HELPED it to achieve its aims of both initiating debate as well as not providing platform to these elements.
The video was not racist
The broad who made the film has publicly stated that she "regards India as a sick society" and that she felt better returning to the UK. The "us versus them" & 'holier than thou' stance throughout the firm is not even subtle.

Would it be OK for right-wing organizations to come up with a documentary that stereotypes either the Indian Muslim or Christian community (lets say on the matter of crimes against women) and presents a broad-brush solely on the basis of 2 or 3 Muslims or Christians whose extreme views are used to stereotype the entire community ? What if that particular documentary then ended with the voice-over that "today's Muslim / Christian community in India is morbidly sick and perverted. I am personally glad that we (as in the majority community) don't belong to any community as backward." Would you be OK with such a depiction and push for this program to be shown on primetime - or would you term such a documentary as "blatantly communal" ?

I am OK whatever your stance is. We just need to understand the playing field and ensure that the same rules apply to all such situations.
Showing the video will have a salutary effect on governance (wrt crimes against women)
I am concerned that the do-gooders in India, with their typical low-IQ, will succeed in pressuring the government to "take some action", rather than go through the more sane process of collecting PEW-type data that I mentioned.

Once that happens, the government will forced to "look for solutions". Leaving aside the issue of Law enforcement, there are broadly 3 stances in India, as you are probably aware, as regards the 'Culture' that is responsible for crime against women
  • 1. Traditional Indian Culture (as in Hindu) is primarily responsible
    2. Islamic invaders have introduced the backward Saudi mentality into certain castes in Norther India
    3. Westernization, that seems to preach against 'control of the senses' traditionally taught by Hinduism - is the root cause
If the GOI is forced into a hasty decision - it will go with the 'solution' that it is most comfortable with of the ones above. Your guess as to which ones it will be most comfortable with, is as good as mine.
Last edited by Arjun on 08 Mar 2015 00:46, edited 2 times in total.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

It's funny to see Caucasians and their sepoys bringing in RSS and talking about "free speech" to justify their breaking of pre set conditions for the documentary. For the retards who think that GoI has no legal backing to what it is doing,

Delhi high court upholds ban on telecast of Nirbhaya documentary
A Delhi court on Wednesday upheld the stay on telecast of a documentary based on an interview with a convict in the December 16 Delhi gang-rape case.

The court also banned the telecast of the documentary on the internet too.

"Cops can act if the film is aired," the Delhi high court said on Wednesday.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

X post from NGO thread
chaanakya wrote:
Sonugn wrote:following item removed from HT site -

Image
Here is the cached version

Is she ready to give evidence against Udwin. HT is a known congi mouthpiece.

Anjali Bhushan, co-producer of Indias' Daughter, speaks out: Full statement
Make no mistake. Rape is a heinous crime. When public anger over the Nirbhaya incident boiled over, the question which confronted our society was how a human being could be driven to commit acts of such depravity. Although, it is said that the moral compass of all criminals is skewed the brutality of this incident made it necessary from a social viewpoint to examine the question of where such behaviour stems from.

The documentary "India's Daughter" was therefore conceived to serve a social cause which was unfortunately overshadowed by the self-promoting agenda of my collaborator, Ms. Leslee Udwin. I had fallen out with her by the time that the principle photography of the film was completed and was conveniently excluded from the final edits. Subsequently, her attempt to exploit the subject matter of the documentary in a self-advancing attempt to sensationalize the content has not only brought disrepute to my profession and the country but also resulted in hurting the sentiments of the victims of rape who would invariably be exposed to the film. Granted editorial and journalistic privilege, there is also a particular sensibility that should be a guiding factor as an ethical standard. This is the same sensibility because of which the international media decides against telecasting the brutal immolation of a Jordanian pilot by terrorists. The social message which is the very essence of the film I wanted to make is now lost in the unfortunate controversy which has followed. When one edits several hours of footage, it is this sensibility, suitably deployed, which comes into play. It was this 'sensibility' which I was not able to exercise having been prevented by Ms. Leslee Udwin from participating in the post-assembly review of the film. And it was the lack of exercise of this 'sensibility' on her part, (having denied herself of my input as an Indian woman), in a cynical attempt to capture eyeballs and headlines which has led to the unfortunate controversy which will continue to cast a shadow on her career as a film maker.

The story does not end here. Regardless of her lack of sensibilities and judgment, Ms. Udwin knowingly and cynically breached the conditions and undertakings under which the permissions were granted. It was clear right at the outset that the permission to shoot the documentary was conditional upon the viewing of the unedited footage and the final cut by the authorities. Having completed the shooting, Ms. Udwin arrogantly refused to comply. On being shown snippets of the film, the authorities at Tihar Prisons had categorically stated that the comments of the convict were objectionable. The authorities further asked for the full i.e. unedited film to be able to review the same in the proper context. It was reiterated that the film should not be released till it is approved by the prison authorities and the Ministry.

When Ms. Udwin categorically refuted this demand by Tihar Prisons, I was horrified especially since I had repeatedly pleaded with her to comply with all conditions and formalities. Ultimately, in September 2014, I received a letter from Ms. Udwin's lawyers terminating our agreements. One of the grounds of termination was that my warnings had in fact led to the DG (Prisons) sending a legal notice to her company on the grounds of breach of permissions granted by the jail authorities!

Subsequently, when I accidently stumbled upon the fact that plans to release the documentary were afoot, I was both angry and surprised, since I had been informed that the BBC will not air the documentary until the Supreme Court hearings were over. I immediately proceeded to warn the media houses planning to telecast the film, both about the fact that permission to do so had not been received and also the fact that the matter was still sub judice.

That despite my warnings the documentary, which includes an abominable portrayal of the issue, was still aired is a sad reflection of the triumph of the personal ambition of a producer who valued publicity and international recognition over the social agenda of the entire production.

(This is the full statement of co-producer of controversial documentary "India's Daughter". Views expressed are personal
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59810
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

Well if one collaborates with agenda driven foreigner hen one has to pay the consequences.

How is it that the co-producer's statements did not get the airing that they deserved and Ms Udwin given solo press conference privileges?
ajay_hk
BRFite
Posts: 165
Joined: 06 Jan 2006 09:11

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ajay_hk »

Dishaji, Arjunji, Sagarji and others... I agree on this - that this specific BBC documentary is a hit job and nefarious in nature to begin with and this documentary had absolutely no intention of creating awareness of the serious issue at hand.

I was having a similar discussion with friend(s) (sounded more like DIE's) here and pretty much in the same speak of how BBC did a wonderful thing and how Indian govt is all messed up in how it is handling the situation and by banning the documentary. Can I please seek your help in providing analysis from your side on why your thoughts of this being a hit-job & links that would support the argument/opinion that this is indeed a hit job by BBC? I've been doing that on my end as well, trying to give counterpoints to some of their arguments. Only intention is to make people (like my friends) aware that just by reading or watching documentaries from mainstream media does not mean that there is doing out of some sort of public responsibility or something. I don't have anything against the premise of the documentary, my issue is with BBC doing this ... when we all know of BBC's agenda.
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Arjun »

ramana wrote:Is the attitude of the men towards rape conditioned by long exposure since 1192 to Islamic marauders? Many social customs were changed: ghungat, marriage muhurat times zenana culture of segregation so on and so forth.

Former President Prathiba Patil had spoken against the veil culture and how its not a time immemorial custom.

So these fellows are crypto Islamic marauders in mind set.
I think ravip is alluding to this.
I think Ravip may have a point, if he is indeed referring to the crypto Islamic marauder mind-set.

Both crimes against women as well as patriarchal attitudes towards the female sex seem to be strongest in the the same regions where the 'Ganga Jamuni' tehzeeb of Muslim influence on local castes is the highest.

The "solution", if this hypothesis is correct, would be to try and bring this part of the world more into the social mainstream through a focused campaign. I am personally strongly for the burkha to be banned in India, as possibly the single most repulsive and visible manifestation of the patriarchal mindset.
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Arjun »

ajay_hk wrote: Can I please seek your help in providing analysis from your side on why your thoughts of this being a hit-job & links that would support the argument/opinion that this is indeed a hit job by BBC?
I would ask them the same question I asked of Ravip:
Would it be OK for right-wing organizations to come up with a documentary that stereotypes either the Indian Muslim or Christian community (lets say on the matter of crimes against women) and presents a broad-brush solely on the basis of 2 or 3 Muslims or Christians whose extreme views are used to stereotype the entire community ? What if that particular documentary then ended with the voice-over that "today's Muslim / Christian community in India is morbidly sick and perverted. I am personally glad that we (as in the majority community) don't belong to any community as backward." Would you be OK with such a depiction and push for this program to be shown on primetime - or would you term such a documentary as "blatantly communal" ?
SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by SanjayC »

eklavya wrote:I watched the documentary (BBC iPlayer). Its a good documentary and I don't think it is anti-India
Looks like you cannot recognize psyops when you see one. The objective is to tarnish all Indian males as potential rapists because of the pernicious influence of Hindu society in which they grow up. Their idea is to throw so much shit on Hindu males that to escape the stereotyping, they begin saying: "I am a Hindu but I don't believe in Hinduism, so I am not a potential rapist."

How this works in practice is this:
What should an Indian male student do if he is denied an internship opportunity on the basis of India being projected as an unsafe country for women?
http://www.quora.com/What-should-an-Ind ... uF&share=1

Essentially, this is an evangelical campaign to target heathens, and is fully supported by racist bigots and Xian fundamentalists in media, academia and government power structures in Europe. They first arrange for rabidly biased, hateful reports in their own media, and then pretend to believe those reports -- it is like a theater where each actor plays a role. They won't stop till the heathens accept supremacy of White Man's God and culture.

Indian government is perceived by them as weak, so they are sure no action will be taken against Whites and their collaborators in India who participate in such campaigns. And they are right. The white lady and her local NDTV collaborator are still running around in India giving interviews with impunity and mocking the Government. If they had done the same for Chinese society, the ending would have been different -- the lady banned for life from entering China and the collaborator in jail. As long as Hindus are perceived to be weak, they will get no respect. Gandhi has done permanent damage to Hindu pscyhe and feminized the Hindu males.

Modi needs to do less foreign travel and non-stop talk on economy, and do something to defend Hindus and Hindu culture from these racist and xian fundamentalist White Europeans. Otherwise, he will be considered as a fake, or the Hindus will think that while he may have good qualities, those qualities are not the most urgent ones needed by Hindus at the moment whose honour and culture are under constant attack by monotheistic hostiles.
Last edited by SanjayC on 08 Mar 2015 20:18, edited 7 times in total.
SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by SanjayC »

Self deleted -- double post
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59810
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

X-Post

{quote="chetak"}Leslee’s Liasons: the Inside Story

By Yatish Yadav

08th Mar 2015



A rapist in a brown and white check shirt staring impassively at the camera, speaking soto voce that Nirbhaya, the victim of the December 16, 2012 gangrape, had asked for it. A 57-year-old British film producer and actress Leslee Udwin who shot him inside Delhi’s infamous Tihar Jail is crying that the Indian government has banned her documentary India’s Daughter and muzzled freedom of expression. A missing film producer named Anjali Bhushan. A newborn film company named Tathagath under whose banner Udwin produced the documentary and has left no traces of its existence. The funder of India’s Daughter, Tribeca Film Institute which is financed by the Ford Foundation, a body under the scanner of Indian agencies for funding PRS’s Lamp Scheme in India. A carefully constructed web of film companies whose presence fade in and out as if through the lens of a camera. Behind the outrage on the social media and the anger of columnists and editorial writers over the ban of the documentary lies a story of deception, circumvention of rules and a host of missing links that suggest that Leslee Udwin’s story is not just what it seems to be—a gift to India.

The storm broke after February 27, when the BBC magazine carried an item about the worldwide release of the film, announcing the contents, including an exclusive interview by one of the rapists, Mukesh Singh. A crew numbering four to five people shot interviews of the gang-rape convicts inside Tihar Jail in October 2013 after being granted unhindered access for six to seven days by jail authorities. Mysteriously, the arrangements were fixed by an unknown Gurgaon-based photographer who “happened to know” some jail officials.

THE LADY VANISHES: “Dig deep and you will find a scoop behind the making of India’s Daughter”, claims an intelligence officer involved in the probe into the making of the documentary. Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh on March 4 had assured Parliament that the government will inquire into the matter. He also clarified that the Tihar Jail authorities gave permissions for the shoot to Udwin and Anjali Bhushan. While Udwin, owner of Assassin Films, last week appeared on all major TV channels crying foul over the ban and hogging the international limelight, Bhushan through whom Udwin got permission to shoot inside Tihar is missing from the film’s credit roll.

Indian government rules state that a foreign filmmaker is not allowed entry inside an Indian prison. An MHA official, probing any violation of contract in the filming of India’s Daughter, claims Leslee partnered with an Indian co-producer to circumvent the rule and gain access to the jail premises.

A tale of tricks of the trade

■ The producers didn’t take requisite approval before telecast

■ Filmmakers were asked not to release/screen the documentary till it is approved by the authorities but premier date was fixed without getting the necessary permission.

■ Did Leslee apply for documentary filmmaker visa under Passport (Entry into India) Act 1920, and the Registration of Foreigners Rules, 1992?

■ She used only Mukesh Singh’s byte and not of other convicts.

■ Investigators claim the film was made for commercial benefit rather for social study as originally claimed by the filmmaker while seeking permission for interview.

■ Investigators probing the role of ‘Tathagat films’, the Indian partner of Leslee Udwin’s Assassin Films.

India’s Daughter: Frame by Frame

July 24, 2013: Home ministry grants permission to Leslee Udwin and Anjali Bhushan to shoot a documentary inside Tihar Jail
Oct 7, 2013: Consent letter of December 12 gang-rape convict taken
Jan 9, 2014: Udwin receives funding from Worldview. The grant is announced jointly for Udwin’s Assassin Films Ltd (UK) and Bhushan’s Apricot Sky Entertainment (India).
April 7, 2014: Tihar Jail authorities detect violation in permission conditions for shoot and a legal notice is served. The notice to Leslee asks her to return the unedited footage within 15 days and also not to show the film as it violates the permission conditions.
May-June 2014: Documentary is shown to jail authorities where it is noticed that the film depicts the comments of the convict which are highly derogatory. The filmmaker is requested to provide full copy of the unedited film for further review by the authorities and that they are asked not to release/screen the documentary till it is approved by the authorities.
June 10, 2014: Gucci Tribeca Documentary Fund is awarded to Udwin for India’s Daughter.
Feb 27 , 2015: BBC Magazine publishes curtain-raiser on India’s Daughter highlighting rape convict Mukesh Singh’s interview and schedule of world premiere on March 8
March 3, 2015: Uproar in Parliament, Delhi Police registers FIR under Section 509 (outraging the modesty of women) and Section 504 (intentional insult to provoke breach of trust) of the IPC.
March 4, 2015 : Protest by lawmakers in Parliament forces government to ban the film. Google and YouTube are asked to remove the links.
March 4, 2015: BBC and some other channels in Europe advance telecast of the documentary by four days.
{/quote}

Past is past. Now work on cleaning up MHA downwards

Who in his right mind passed the file tot allow the Rapist/Murderer interview?
Finally how really owns the bus that rape took place?
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chaanakya »

There are strict rules regarding jail visits. People not concerned with visitors ( friends, relatives and lawyers, investigation officials) aren't allowed as a general rule. Press and outsiders are strict no even in Model Jail manual. MHA issues several advisories on not allowing press etc inside jails. This type of drama in Tihar jail (mainly) was started by KB in the name of reforms. upto Yoga it was fine but then later she allowed all types of people including actors, media and allowed interaction with prisoners. Now this has gone to the extent of interviews and documentary. She got Magsaysay award for this.
svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by svenkat »

Hattip to Sighbaboo

http://www.vitalvoices.org/get-involved/events/indias-daughter
Friedo Pinto,Associate Producer,Indias daughter
https://tribecafilminstitute.org/blog/detail/2014_gucci_tribeca_documentary_fund_grantees_announced
As usual, the jury was comprised from a diverse spectrum of the arts, and they were Claire Aguilar (executive content advisor for Independent Television Service - ITVS); actor and producer Alec Baldwin; producer & director Ross Kauffman (E-TEAM, Born Into Brothels); multiple Grammy winning singer/songwriter and partner in Get Lifted Film Co. John Legend and Alyse Nelson (president and CEO of Vital Voices).
The projects that will collectively receive $100,000 total in funding for the 2014 Gucci Tribeca Documentary Fund are:

INDIA’S DAUGHTER, Directed and Produced by Leslee Udwin. This documentary pays tribute to the remarkable and inspiring short life of Jyoti Singh and documents the brutality of her gang-rape and murder in Delhi in 2012. It also examines the mindset of the perpetrators, and it sets these specifics against a wider in-depth exploration of why rape happens.
http://www.vitalvoices.org/get-involved/partner
Ever since then-First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton founded Vital Voices 16 years ago, and through its transition to a nonprofit, non-governmental organization, we have thrived with strong financial support and partnerships with both Republican and Democratic administrations.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

@ ajay_hk

Regarding info about the illegal documentary a lot has been posted by BRFites in the NGO thread which I think is suited more for this thread. You can yourself watch the "documentary" and come up with counter points as well.

Regarding info about rape stats in Britshit land google is your BFF and don't forget to search for the paedophilia rings/grooming rings which include Britshit M.P.s, there ******** child a.k.a. Pakistan and as well as a Britshit Prince. All this has also been very well documented by BRFites in Indo-Britshit thread. Almost forgot about the Bachha Balaatkari Channel's own participation in paedophilia, look up for that as well.

Ask your friend why does he need a caucasian to lecture him for him to realise problems faced by Indian society ??? Isn't he capable to recognise them on his own ??? Isn't he capable of independent thinking or is he still a mental slave to caucasians ???
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Rahul M »

the massive public protests against rape, possibly the ONLY time such an issue led to a mass protest anywhere in the world, didn't need bbc to tell us did it ?

the bbc's own country OTOH seems quite accepting and accommodative of rape and child abuse, given that their per capita figures are magnitude greater than ours.

should we take tolerance lessons from ISIS next ?
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6117
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by sanjaykumar »

I am amazed, shocked, flabbergasted, and appalled all at the same time, as well as being a little bemused on the side, that Indians would expect impartiality from a foreign propaganda organ.


Please follow the handling of the US DOJ report on Ferguson in the BBC, NYT, WP etc. A most significant release from any US administration (kudos to them) raising issues of white privilege, blaxploitation (not in the good sense, apologies to Pam Grier), implicit Christian values, systemic racism, civic corruption, conspiracy to commit human rights violations and it barely merits comment. Thus BBC (Big British Cock-up) deflects attention to a sordid Hindu rapist 's comments.

And you fell for it.
Last edited by sanjaykumar on 09 Mar 2015 00:57, edited 2 times in total.
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6117
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by sanjaykumar »

Oh...and when is the GOI going to issue an advisory to Indian travelers to be especially vigilant over their children when travelling in Britain?

But nothing like the fabled Indian hand-wringing, eh? Playing the perpetually aggrieved perhaps has its own incomparable delights.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59810
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

I think GOI should first clean in house and then take on others. Allowing the in house to escape scot-free is not helpful. next time they will stab deeper.

First start with MHA
- Who gave permission and why? What were the file notings?
- Who enabled the filming? What were they thinking?
- Tihar and other jail manuals what were the deficiencies?


Next start with BBC
- Why as the preconditions not followed?
- Throw them out if possible.

BBC obviously has not given up its colonial gaze.
by self flagellating we are suffering from fractal recursivity.

The whole exercise is to burden a rising India with stigma.
And they have many desi gungadins to help hem.

One thing that irks me is who owned the bus that gang rape happened in?
Somehow that was covered up.
Jarita
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2649
Joined: 30 Oct 2009 22:27
Location: Andromeda

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Jarita »

Freida Pinto had nothing to do with the documentary. They are adding her name in to replace the other lady and providing some brown female credibility to the rubbish.
chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1724
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chanakyaa »

when is the GOI going to issue an advisory to Indian travelers to be especially vigilant over their children when travelling in Britain?..
How likely is it for Indian govts, or any part of it, regardless of who is in power to issue such advisories or take actions, against such countries? It is high time to set up expert organization(s) whose primary job is to be on PR offensive in the field of economy, social issues etc. Communication with the world will be done using digital medium. Keep the politics out, so BJP can fund it in the interest of public policy. Give this organization a wyestern name, so it sounds legit (World Heritage Organization, so whatever who gives a f*$k). Then start issuing advisories, question conversions by adharmics, give expert opinions on wars, uncover hypocrasies of BeeBeeShe and SheEnnEnn, and most importantly penetrate desi news organizations.
Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Raja Bose »

Jarita wrote:Freida Pinto had nothing to do with the documentary. They are adding her name in to replace the other lady and providing some brown female credibility to the rubbish.
Hardly surprising. Freida Pinto will p1mp herself to anybody willing to pay the $.
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by gakakkad »

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/B ... 702538.ece

BBC Banned Investigative Programme that Threw Light on Sexual Assault by Its Own Employee



NEW YORK: BBC canceled the investigative report exposing its popular presenter Jimmy Savile's predatory sexual attacks on scores of children that was scheduled to have been broadcast in December 2011 in the Newsnight programme.

Just last week a report by a panel investigating Savile's sexual crimes at one of the hospitals where he volunteered reported that he had attacked 60 people there, about half of them under 16 years, some as young as eight.

A report by the Metropolitan Police and the Britain's National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children said in 2013 that 214 criminal offences have been formally recorded in which Savile is a suspect and these took place from 1955 to 2009. Many of the abuses took place in 14 medical establishments.

British Members of Parliament have expressed concern over the BBC ignoring sexual abuses by its own employees.

The Guardian reported in 2012 that Labour MP Harriet Harman had asked what it was about the BBC and the hospitals where the abuses took place that had prevented people coming forward when Savile was alive.

And after the newspaper exposed allegations against BBC employees in 2013, Conservative politician Rob Wilson said, "For years the BBC's management allowed a culture to develop of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse and allowing powerful bullies to prosper.”

“The internal culture of the BBC was rotten and it remains to be seen whether it still is,” he added according to the newspaper. Wilson, an MP at that time, is now the Minister for Civil Society.

Later in 2013, Wilson accused the BBC Trust's chairman, Lord Patten, of displaying “chilling behaviour” when he tried to prevent Wilson from publishing the contents of an audio recording that brought into question a key aspect of an inquiry into the cancellation of the Newsnight programme, according to The Telegraph. The recording was of the inquiry head, Nick Pollard, which “reportedly undermines his own findings,” the newspaper said.

“Lord Patten’s threat to a democratically-elected Member of Parliament is almost reminiscent of something from the Soviet-era,” the Telegraph quoted Wilson. “It is chilling behaviour from the so-called public 'guardian' of this country’s dominant state broadcaster.”

BBC is funded by a government-imposed levy on all British households that watch broadcasts on television, regardless of whether they view BBC programmes or not.

In 2012 when his inquiry report was released, Pollard, a former Sky News head, said "The efforts to get to the truth behind the Savile story proved beyond the combined efforts of the senior management, legal department, corporate communications team and anyone else for well over a month."

The Guardian had obtained the information about the sex abuse of children and teens by BBC employees through a Freedom of Information request. It said that in the six months since October 2012, 20 BBC employees had faced 36 allegations of sex abuse of “an unknown number of victims under the age of 18.”

Citing the FoI request report, the Guardian said, “The complaints were among a total of 152 recent and historic allegations of sexual abuse against 81 BBC employees and freelancers, including 48 about Savile. Each of the complaints, involving adults and children, have been made to the BBC since October.”

The Guardian said that half the number of the accused were current members of BBC staff or contributors, as of May 30, 2013.

Reports of sex abuse by several BBC employees began to come out in the open after the accusations against the network star Savile became public even though BBC blacked out the Newsnight report. In 2012, ITV ran a report of its own investigations into Savile's decades-long history of sexual attacks.

When the report of the review into Savile's attacks at the Stoke Mandeville Hospital in Aylesbury, about 65 kilometres from London, was released last week, Dr Androulla Johnstone, who led the inquiry, said, “The Investigation found that none of the informal complaints were either taken seriously or escalated to senior management.”

“Savile’s victims ranged in age from eight (to) 40 and almost half were under 16, with ten being under the age of 12,” Johnstone said in a press statement. “Around one-third of his attacks were against patients. Just over ninety per cent of the victims were female.” Her statement added, “The sexual abuse ranged from inappropriate touching to rape.”

Calling Savile an “opportunistic predator,” her statement said, “Between 1972 and 1985, nine informal verbal reports were made about the abuse by his victims and in addition one formal complaint was made. ”

Another broader review of Savile's conduct and into “whether the culture and practices within the BBC during the years of Jimmy Savile’s employment enabled inappropriate sexual conduct to continue unchecked” is dragging on. It is headed by a Janet Smith, a former Court of Appeal judge .

On its web site the review, set up in 2012, said it had been in contact approximately 740 people till last September and more people were contacting it as of December. It expected to have a report ready early this year.

Pollard's inquiry report on the cancellation of the Newsnight expose of Savile said that BBC's top leadership was not involved in the decision.

The Telegraph reported, “However, it did not include testimony from Helen Boaden, the BBC's former Head of News. She alleged that Mark Thompson, the corporation's former director general, was aware of the content of the Newsnight investigation.”

“Despite her testimony Pollard's inquiry found that there was 'no evidence to doubt' Mr Thompson's version of events,” the newspaper said.

In Wilson's recording that BBC tried to suppress, the Telegraph said, “Pollard reportedly privately admits that he was wrong to overlook Miss Boaden's evidence” that Thompson knew about what the Newsnight investigation found.

Thompson is now the Chief Executive Officer of The New York Times.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Shreeman »

Yada, yada, yada, and then this happens: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/germ ... 22825.html
uddu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2092
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by uddu »

There is a propoganda war unleashed against India and Indians by the west. What's the result of that. The above example of a professor who himself falling prey to BBC and other propoganda machinery unleashed against India. Media plays a major role in creating opinion among the world populace about a country or people. There are propaganda unleashed on India on two lines. One is environment and the other is related to rape.
The attempt is to slow down the growth as much as possible by using such propaganda which runs counter to India's campaign of Make in India, development etc.
Even Modi was seen saying in Parliament that the tourism industry has succeeded because of the efforts of the government even when there is an effort which portrayed India as negative for tourism.
I am sure we must have lost four times the tourists because of the propaganda and still losing on revenue.
The counter need to be launched and the counter must not just state the facts but also take it back to their doorsteps. It could be using the same Media machinery we can launch counter on climate change and the issues of pollution caused by developed countries who are the largest polluter in the world, Issues of rights violation of blacks to woman and gypsies. The west Supporting countries which has the least human rights record etc etc. It's time to expose them. Some of the names that keep coming on top are the likes of Hillary, Ford foundation etc.
Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sagar G »

uddu wrote:I am sure we must have lost four times the tourists because of the propaganda and still losing on revenue.
I am sure that you can produce a link to verify the same, so go ahead and post one.
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4294
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by fanne »

Cannot PPC be sued by the said individual in Bharat and claim damages?
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by gakakkad »

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annette_Beck-Sickinger


this is a wikipedia entry of the idiotic prof .it is in German...if someone is comfortable with german , kindly edit the above german wikipedia article to include this incidence of racism...hopefully this sicko lady will become synonymous with racism...
chilarai
BRFite
Posts: 580
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31

Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chilarai »

btw it seems this may not be the first such case by this prof , did the same to another applicant in 2014

http://www.thenewsminute.com/news_sections/3191
Post Reply