Delhi Case Follow-up thread

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Arjun » 16 Mar 2015 19:22

CRamS wrote:Guys, if you thought that the German professor who refused an internship to an Indian kid because of "India's rape problem" is alone, think again. The rot is within. Please watch this brief clip on an elite Indian student whining to an IMF chief of all people, about religious (meaning Hindu) chauvinism and patriarchy under ModiJi

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/w ... dget_cat_5

Important that these morons be named and shamed....do we have a name yet for this Libtard ?

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby CRamS » 16 Mar 2015 19:34

More than the libtard, wasn't the host Roy clapping to her question? A responsible host would have cut her off saying, this is an irrelevant question to this particular debate, and moved on to the next question. Just as one small example, watch US TV/radio hosts take questions from callers. For e.g., talking about Iraq gang bang by Bush & Co, or NuttinYahoo's paranoia, if any caller takes the contrarian view, for e.g., questions US policies, or Israel's, the host will immediately cut them citing the narrow focus of the debate, and why this question is irrelevant. Some will be condescending and say while its a good question, thats not the topic of discussion. End result, its the nationalist narrative that previals.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Arjun » 16 Mar 2015 19:47

CRamS wrote:More than the libtard, wasn't the host Roy clapping to her question? A responsible host would have cut her off saying, this is an irrelevant question to this particular debate, and moved on to the next question. Just as one small example, watch US TV/radio hosts take questions from callers. For e.g., talking about Iraq gang bang by Bush & Co, or NuttinYahoo's paranoia, if any caller takes the contrarian view, for e.g., questions US policies, or Israel's, the host will immediately cut them citing the narrow focus of the debate, and why this question is irrelevant. Some will be condescending and say while its a good question, thats not the topic of discussion. End result, its the nationalist narrative that previals.

Prannoy Roy doesn't surprise me....the fact that his channel agreed to the BBC program broadcast was enough indication, leave alone his previous track record. I think as far as NDTV goes - its only a matter of time before the government 'facilitates' a change of management.

This student on the other hand ( Paroma ?) can look forward to fame & fortune in a political career as India's answer to Sarah Palin.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby pankajs » 16 Mar 2015 19:48

I think this discussion should have been in the NGO/media thread. My next post there.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 16 Mar 2015 19:56

She is Paroma Ray from LSR college.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby SSundar » 16 Mar 2015 20:14

She is a political science student. Enough said. Probably has her head filled with Lefty rhetoric.

I thought the IMF Chief's responses was quite tactful though.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 16 Mar 2015 20:21

The IMF chief is a diplomat..Is not there a protocol or something in place for interviews etc? Why did the IV have to happen at NDTV of all places?

This question was certainly planted ...Ms Parochial Ray is one of the many necessary fool...

in the last few weeks there is abnormally large creation of atrocity literature..Modi better act fast..

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 16 Mar 2015 20:28

Well it was nothing surprising about that political science student. During my first month at Hindu College, the number of times Manu was invoked by my Political Theory professor Mr Chandrachur as the very image of typical hindu male was nauseating. There was this guy from rural bihar who became the target of his and fellow girl students ire because he was not in consonance with their viewpoint.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 16 Mar 2015 20:34

OT ..out of curiosity ,do they teach anything worth learning?

I mean if I ran a political science course , I would include (besides 1 year compulsory course work in Physics, calculus and gen chem and gen biol) ,extensive statistics and its application to social and biological problems , statistical packages like SPSS , economic theory and business theory , history from an India perspective , religion from a political perspective , 2 languages of choice , constitution and fundamentals of law etc...

what do they teach here ?

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby csaurabh » 16 Mar 2015 20:45

None of the 'arts' and 'humanities' departments teach anything worthwhile. They only repeat westernized gibberish.

It is better to go for engineering and then transition into an 'arts' career. Many people have done that successfully.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 16 Mar 2015 20:46

Well during my 1st year, we had 3 honors papers - Political Theory, Colonization and Nationalism in India and Indian Political Thought. Apart from that there was an interdisciplinary paper every year. We had to choose from a list which consisted of Gandhian studies, Environmental Studies, Citizenship in Globalizing World and so on. Then there was the language paper. Also we had to 'pass' the hindi paper once during the 3 years. Apart from that there were the 'add-on' courses which mainly consisted of foreign languages. And no semesters.

Here's a link to my syllabus when i joined in 2009. It is the first one and not the revised one which was introduced with FYUP.

http://polscience.du.ac.in/Syllabus.htm

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 16 Mar 2015 20:59

what kind of syllabus is this?

No economics in a political science course ? and No history , no geography ..no statistics ? and no science in political science ...and whats with courses on individual personalities ?

o boy...this is the source of the rot...

PS-No offense meant to anyone...

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Rahul M » 16 Mar 2015 21:07

social science is rarely social and never a science.

- Rahul M

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 16 Mar 2015 21:09

Yeah doing normal BA is better than this. I had shifted from the science stream in school to this. I regret it now. The only worthwhile humanities subjects these days are Economics or Geography.

Though this type of syllabus is not followed everywhere. Before joining Hindu, I had taken admission with Scottish Church College in Kolkata as backup since I was not sure of admission in DU. There the 1st year syllabus consisted of 1 major subject - Pol Sci and 2 minor subjects which were to be taught for 1st 2 years alone, the final year for major subject alone. For minors we could choose from Economics, History, Sociology, Philosophy and so on. But I was told that POL Sci faculty with hindu college was the best in India. Now i know the truth.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 16 Mar 2015 21:11

you can do another undergrad...no harm done..

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 16 Mar 2015 21:36

Yeah, i left during my 2nd year.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Prem » 17 Mar 2015 00:16

http://qz.com/363090/students-in-new-de ... y-napkins/
(Check The photos of Locos in the Link-oto)

protest against sexism in Germany has travelled half way around the world to India’s universities.This past week, a young female artist in Karlsruhe, Germany, went around her city placing messages against sexism on sanitary napkins. The trigger for artist Elone Kastratia’s project was a tweet that she saw in September last year:
Kastratia unveiled her street art on International Women’s Day this year, on March 8, using the hashtag: #PadsAgainstSexism.
Now, Indian students in at least two prominent universities in New Delhi—University of Delhi and Jamia Millia Islamia—have also taken to writing against gender inequality on sanitary napkins. These pads are then displayed on notice boards, canteens and even trees around the campuses. Students in Delhi are using the same hashtag Kastratia created to spread awareness about feminism and periods.
In India, menstruation is still taboo. Menstruating women are considered impure and often separated from the rest of their family members during periods. The disgust around this natural body function in the country is so strong that even university officials are unhappy about the campaign unfolding on the campuses right now.

Pads against sexism
In Delhi’s Jamia Millia Islamia, a group of student-activists—who want to remain anonymous—started out by putting sanitary napkins all over their university area.These students then went out of their campus and campaigned in posh south Delhi neighbourhoods, like Hauz Khas Village, and asked bystanders to pose for pictures holding pads.We are trying to help people realise that the natural phenomena such as a period should not have a stigma attached to it while rape and other instances of violence against women go seemingly unchecked,” a campaigner from Delhi’s Jamia Millia Islamia told the university’s news website, Jamia Journal.The Delhi University campaign was on a much smaller scale. Students wanted to show solidarity with their counterparts at Jamia Millia Islamia—and of course, Kastratia.“We simply want people to understand that menstruation is not a crime and a girl should not be victimised for something so natural,” Rafiul Alom Rahman, who brought the campaign to the university, said.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby MurthyB » 17 Mar 2015 00:32

^^^^ Oh boy. "Kastratia"!? Is this some transgender that is confusing "period" and "blood" for the 'nirvan' operation he went through recently...

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby member_22733 » 17 Mar 2015 00:46

nawabs wrote:Well during my 1st year, we had 3 honors papers - Political Theory, Colonization and Nationalism in India and Indian Political Thought. Apart from that there was an interdisciplinary paper every year. We had to choose from a list which consisted of Gandhian studies, Environmental Studies, Citizenship in Globalizing World and so on. Then there was the language paper. Also we had to 'pass' the hindi paper once during the 3 years. Apart from that there were the 'add-on' courses which mainly consisted of foreign languages. And no semesters.

Here's a link to my syllabus when i joined in 2009. It is the first one and not the revised one which was introduced with FYUP.

http://polscience.du.ac.in/Syllabus.htm


I went through part of that syllabus that described post colonial studies since I myself am a student of sorts on post-colonialism.

These jokers are using books published by Oxford, Cambridge by pearly white Brishiters on post-colonial thought. That is outrageously unjust and if it was some Baki university that did this, it would have made my day/week/year for the time I would have spent laughing at this sorry spectacle.

Race and racial othering/stereotyping plays a large role in Brishit colonial discourse. Because of white privilege a pearly white privileged Brishiter would be blind to racial othering by his own caucasian brethen, and therefore evidently will be only able to present a biased and distorted version of reality, much like the Brishit documentary on the "rape problem" among brown Indians.

Do these morons even understand what colonialism was really about? Do they understand that freeing yourself from the narratives that are formed in racist organizations such as the Ox-bridges is a large and inseparable part of liberating oneself from the chains of colonialism?

The level of discourse is despicable and disgusting, to say the least.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby shyamal » 17 Mar 2015 01:07

SSundar wrote:
shyamal wrote:The feedback that I have about the documentary(I have not watched it and have no intention to watch it) is that it has a lot of sensational statements(which have already appeared in media before) and broadbased maligning of Indian society as a whole. So who will attack whom?


Shyamal-ji, from a fellow noobie: I watched a number of my friends attacking themselves on FB and declaring shame about India. We are probably the only ethnicity in the entire human race that do this so well - self-flagellation. The ban on this abomination ensured that the frenzy died down in less than a day. Without this ban, "activists" would have screened it in every Indian village and created a perfect environment for the next Godhra.


Sundarji, I purposely waited for three days before responding.
I too had hope(hope against hope) that the self flagellation frenzy would die down in 2-3 days. But it has not done so.
This topic will be kept alive with a new rape surfacing everyday and the media and social media frenzy will only grow about it till India becomes firmly entrenched as the rape capital of the world. The maximum resistance that I face when countering such propaganda is from Indians themselves.

It has actually been fun in a very sad way. The first 1-2 days of the docu-fiesta - the libtards were all over the place declaring how evil Modi is for banning it and how the documentary is a must view.
After that - once the fall out from the documentary came out and "all" Indian men started being painted with the same brush(including libturds) they changed their tune to how the documentary is actually harmful to the cause of Indian fight against rapes. While still blaming Modi for everything in the universe.
Morons.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Amber G. » 17 Mar 2015 02:59

Wow! I am speechless seeing scores of posts, addressed to me.

Some are vile, rude, if not outright personal attacks..

One starts with... the very first sentience "......bitch"
There was no decency to retract the statement of apology..

And there are more similar statements... ad hominem attacks...rants..

And all started with my first message - quoted below for the record ..

Amber G. wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:Now there is some old nun is raped in WB and media is runing it. This was captured in CC tv. How CC tvs are there in a convent no one knows.


I think safety of every person (even an "old nun") is more important than to "wonder" how CC tv came in a convent?

- simply disgusted to see such kind of comments.


I did not comment on BBC movie, or NY times. I just said that "Safety of every person (even an "old nun") is importatnat. This ought not to be controversial. Yet dozens of posts. addressing me.. .people are attacking using absurd logic, points which have absolutely NO relation to what I said, using straw man arguments and crude language. Only thing I can see is the ugly side of brf .

I am with brf for a long time. I think it became a habit so I am still here.

I wish brf was more than a social club... which did not make atmosphere so hostile to anyone outside a narrow clique.

Time permitting, I may respond to some sane posts... but people please ought to READ what I write, if they want to have a meaningful conversation.

Peace.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby member_28533 » 17 Mar 2015 03:40

Amber G. wrote:Wow! I am speechless seeing scores of posts, addressed to me.

Some are vile, rude, if not outright personal attacks..

One starts with... the very first sentience "......bitch"
There was no decency to retract the statement of apology..

And there are more similar statements... ad hominem attacks...rants..

And all started with my first message - quoted below for the record ..

I think safety of every person (even an "old nun") is more important than to "wonder" how CC tv came in a convent?

- simply disgusted to see such kind of comments.



Amber,

If someone abused you personally its of course deplorable.

But you cannot start a dharna here, pervert the discourse to your victimhood and continue to take potshots at everyone who disagrees with your sweeping generalizations either.

Judging by the quality of your posts, you seem to lack the intellectual depth or holistic understanding of issues and yet you want to deliver sweeping generalizations and want everyone to acknowledge your conclusions. This may cause people not to respect you as much as you want to be as this is a nationalist forum. Its not because you are a woman, man, gay, straight, white, black, northie, southie, etc - its just that you are trying to debate people who have a better grip over issues.

If I may advise, please take a break - educate yourself with facts and then join back in fact-based discussions with a sole focus on issues.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Amber G. » 17 Mar 2015 03:56

Here is a view point from an ex IPS officer, ex - secretary in the Union home ministry, ex - Mumbai police commissioner, ex - DGP Gujarat and ex DGP Punjab, a former Indian ambassador

Some excerpts.. please read in full..

As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro

There was a time, not very long ago — one year short of 30, to be precise — when only a Christian was chosen to go to Punjab to fight what then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi termed “the nation’s battle” against separatists. I had accepted a “demotion” from secretary in the Union home ministry to DGP of the state of Punjab at the personal request of the prime minister.

Then home secretary, Ram Pradhan, and my dear friend, B.G. Deshmukh, then chief secretary to the government of Maharashtra, were flabbergasted. “Why did you accept this assignment?” they asked. The same question was put to me over the phone by then President Zail Singh. But Arjun Singh, the cabinet minister who personally escorted me by special aircraft from Delhi to Chandigarh, remarked that when my appointment was announced the next morning, the Hindus of Punjab would breathe more freely and rejoice. I presume Hindus would include RSS cadres who had been pinned into a corner by the separatists.

When 25 RSS men on parade were shot dead in cold blood one morning, then Punjab Governor S.S. Ray and I rushed to the spot to console the stricken families. The governor visited 12 homes, I visited the rest. The governor’s experience was different from mine. He was heckled and abused. I was welcomed.

Today, in my 86th year, I feel threatened, not wanted, reduced to a stranger in my own country. The same category of citizens who had put their trust in me to rescue them from a force they could not comprehend have now come out of the woodwork to condemn me for practising a religion that is different from theirs. I am not an Indian anymore, at least in the eyes of the proponents of the Hindu Rashtra.

.....



... Many schools, colleges, related establishments that teach skills for jobs have been set up and run by Christians. They are much in demand. Even diehard Hindus have sought admission in such centres of learning and benefited from the commitment and sincerity of Christian teachers. Incidentally, no one seems to have been converted to Christianity, though many, many have imbibed Christian values and turned “pseudo-secularist”.

Hospitals, nursing homes, hospices for dying cancer patients needing palliative care — many of these are run by Christian religious orders or Christian laymen devoted to the service of humanity. Should they desist from doing such humanitarian work for fear of being so admired and loved that a stray beneficiary converts of his or her own accord? Should only Hindus be permitted to do work that could sway the sentiments of stricken people in need of human love and care?

The Indian army was headed by a Christian general, the navy more than once, and same with the air force. The country’s defence forces have countless men and women in uniform who are Christians. How can they be declared non-Indians by Parivar hotheads out to create a pure Hindu Rashtra?

It is tragic that these extremists have been emboldened beyond permissible limits by an atmosphere of hate and distrust. The Christian population, a mere 2 per cent of the total populace, has been subjected to a series of well-directed body blows.
....

I was somewhat relieved when our prime minister finally spoke up at a Christian function in Delhi a few days ago. But the outburst of Mohan Bhagwat against Mother Teresa, an acknowledged saint — acknowledged by all communities and peoples — has put me back on the hit list. Even more so because BJP leaders, like Meenakshi Lekhi, chose to justify their chief’s remarks.

What should I do? What can I do to restore my confidence? I was born in this country. So were my ancestors, some 5,000 or more years ago. If my DNA is tested, it will not differ markedly from Bhagwat’s. It will certainly be the same as the country’s defence minister’s as our ancestors arrived in Goa with the sage Parshuram at the same time. Perhaps we share a common ancestor somewhere down the line. It is an accident of history that my forefathers converted and his did not. I do not and never shall know the circumstances that made it so.

What does reassure me in these twilight years, though, is that there are those of the predominant Hindu faith who still remember my small contribution to the welfare of the country of our birth. During a recent trip to Rajgurunagar in the Khed taluka of Pune district to visit schools that my NGO, The Bombay Mothers and Children Welfare Society, had adopted, I stopped at Lonavla for idli and tea. A group of middle-aged Maharashtrians sitting on the next table recognised me and stopped to greet and talk. A Brahmin couple returning from Kuwait (as I later learnt) also came up to inquire if I was who I was and then took a photograph with me.
It warmed the cockles of my heart that ordinary Hindus, not known to me, still thought well of me and would like to be friends 25 years after my retirement, when I could not directly serve them. It makes me hope that ordinary Hindu men and women will not be swayed by an ideology that seeks to spread distrust and hate with consequences that must be avoided at all cost.


I do agree that ordinary Hindu men and women will not be swayed by an ideology that seeks to spead hate.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby disha » 17 Mar 2015 04:10

Amber G., I respected and had Julio Riberio on a pedestal. A person who could do no wrong until he brought up the above fart!

I am just disgusted that, Mr. Riberio says this:

It is tragic that these extremists have been emboldened beyond permissible limits by an atmosphere of hate and distrust. The Christian population, a mere 2 per cent of the total populace, has been subjected to a series of well-directed body blows.


and in the same article says this

I stopped at Lonavla for idli and tea. A group of middle-aged Maharashtrians sitting on the next table recognised me and stopped to greet and talk. A Brahmin couple returning from Kuwait (as I later learnt) also came up to inquire if I was who I was and then took a photograph with me.
It warmed the cockles of my heart that ordinary Hindus, not known to me, still thought well of me and would like to be friends 25 years after my retirement, when I could not directly serve them


So if his is not an anti-Hindu rant., is it an anti-RSS rant?

Or suddenly I feel that Sri Riberio does want some more 15 mins. of fame at 86 years of age.

Added later: And AmberG'ji - this is the additional layering on the cake - the cake is called #Blow2Modi.


Is it coincidence or a well-thought-out plan that the systematic targeting of a small and peaceful community should begin only after the BJP government of Narendra Modi came to power last May? “Ghar wapsi”, the declaration of Christmas as “Good Governance Day”, the attack on Christian churches and schools in Delhi, all added to a sense of siege that now afflicts these peaceful people.

Christians have consistently punched above their weight — not as much as the tiny Parsi community, but just as noticeably. Education, in particular, has been their forte. Many schools, colleges, related establishments that teach skills for jobs have been set up and run by Christians. They are much in demand. Even diehard Hindus have sought admission in such centres of learning and benefited from the commitment and sincerity of Christian teachers. Incidentally, no one seems to have been converted to Christianity, though many, many have imbibed Christian values and turned “pseudo-secularist”.


I think I know what Mr. Riberio suffers from now., in his world view Hindus are sub-altern. I will let my Hindu spouse know that they (Hindus) cannot ever in Hindustan try to set a narrative of their own.
Last edited by disha on 17 Mar 2015 04:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Shreeman » 17 Mar 2015 04:11

^^^ I hate to put it this way. Murder of 25 people is far worse than any perceived "insecurity" the dignitary feels. Dont bring absurd comparisons into the debate. It belittles your status. You werent some messiah bent on saving the poor RSS men. You were doing your job.

It is the media propaganda that has made you feel this way. And now it is using you to propagate the fear to others.

ps -- not my cup of tea, this hate fest. I wish the indian sane folks who dont have harmones, visa aspirations, or religious poison shot up their veins luck. changes will need to be made on the ground banning bbc, and other documentary organizers for 6 months and fines double all possible earnings would be a start, protests be damned) brain and sanity demands lighter pursuits. toodloo, dear thread, i hardly ever read you for this reason.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby disha » 17 Mar 2015 04:21

^ +100 Shreemanji.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby SSundar » 17 Mar 2015 04:37

The same category of citizens who had put their trust in me to rescue them from a force they could not comprehend have now come out of the woodwork to condemn me for practising a religion that is different from theirs.


Please see the bolded part. He says he has already been condemned by someone (before he wrote this article). Is that true?

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby member_28533 » 17 Mar 2015 05:25

SSundar wrote: Please see the bolded part. He says he has already been condemned by someone (before he wrote this article). Is that true?



There will be always some bad apples in some societies, but to use them to justify a hate-filled ideology (even the mildest assertion of Hindu religion & nationalism is same as minority persectuion) is simply put - fallacious psy-ops propaganda.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby disha » 17 Mar 2015 05:38

SSundar wrote:
The same category of citizens who had put their trust in me to rescue them from a force they could not comprehend have now come out of the woodwork to condemn me for practising a religion that is different from theirs.


Please see the bolded part. He says he has already been condemned by someone (before he wrote this article). Is that true?


Really? Can you please dig out an article in last 12 months where RSS officially condemns Sri Riberio stating that he is a practicing xtian and hence it is wrong?

Sri Riberio just had a moment where he realized that now the nation is in the hands of the non-convent, non-English speaking, non-suit-boot-tie, shivering in dhoti sub-altern short, dark, rice eating Komunal Yindoos.

Or SSundar'ji are you saying that murdering 25 people in Punjab if they belong to RSS is okay as long as Sri Riberio does not feel besieged? Isn't it the same thing as that rNDTV plant which went and said "is the growth in India to benefit only Hindu males?"

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby SSundar » 17 Mar 2015 05:58

Disha-ji,

I am not saying anything :-). Just pointed out something that stood out in that article as an "Aha" moment. Something woke up a man who has pretty much been asleep for a lot of years.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 17 Mar 2015 07:20

@AmberG , I hold you in high regard for your Physics and Math posts..Funny, you have decided to post the lifafa article by Ribeiro , which is a blatant defamation of Modi government . Herr Rebiero says that there has been an increase in attack on churches since Modi came to power..Now , Math is your strong suite.. Did you check his data before posting ? Because Senor Ribeiro did not bother checking the data..

if the (church attack:temple attack ) increased during Modi rule and the increase in ratio was statistically significant (P<0.05) , than the article would have had some merit ..else it is usual left wing hot-air..

BTW the real hero of 1984 was KPS Gill ..This chap was just in to take credit..like a typical Babu...

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby shyamal » 17 Mar 2015 07:21

The church attack stories have been going round for more than 2 months now. Why hasnt the govt come out with the correct picture?
if they are just mischief mongering then the culprits should be caught and shamed so thst their masterminds understand that this will not work.
just wishing it away will not make it go away.
if I was a 2 Or 3% minority and was bombarded dveryday with news of some attacks on my place of worship on the media then I too would start feeling insecure after some Time. Its a given that the govts political opponents will try to make hay of the sitisituation, if if I assume that they are not directly involved. That is why it is so important yo make some progress in at least 3 or 4 incidents and showcase that repeatedly.
Last edited by shyamal on 17 Mar 2015 07:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Arjun » 17 Mar 2015 07:25

Amber G. wrote:I do agree that ordinary Hindu men and women will not be swayed by an ideology that seeks to spead hate.

Julio Robeiro provides 4 instances of this "ideology that seeks to spread hate" in his article: Ghar Wapsi, instances of vandalism on some churches, imputing motives to Mother Teresa, "Good Governance Day" on Christmas.

Which ones of these do you agree with as being in line with a "hate ideology", Amberji ? I can see only one there that I would agree with as deserving further study based on data. Do you disagree ? And what is the data that one needs to look for even in that instance before rushing to claim victimhood on behalf of an entire community ?

Your views as a mathematician and JEE Topper have always been of considerable interest to me. :wink:

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby gakakkad » 17 Mar 2015 07:31

data from delhi

Image


(source http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... last-year/)

Why is there a huge spike in temple attacks in 2014?

Why is MSM labeling instances of petty theft as crimes against religion? Now there was a discussion above about syllabus of "social sciences".. Those guys (MSM) can still be given a benefit of doubt ,because they are uneducated...Numbers and statistics are beyond their comprehension...But that is not the case with most people here..

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby shyamal » 17 Mar 2015 07:50

Gakakkad ji,
if inspite of the data the mainstream media is still able to raise a furore about the issue then it is a failure of communication from govt.
The church attack issue should have been investigated and shown as a red herring right at the time when the furore started - around 2 months back.

Perception is just as important as facts. Not everyone who is upset at the relentless stream of bad news created by the media is antiindian. In br it maybe ok to dismiss them as uninformed but the GOI has to be more patient And proactive in dispeling the misinformation.

Till now I do not see much effort there.
Last edited by shyamal on 17 Mar 2015 07:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby CRamS » 17 Mar 2015 07:54

Arjun wrote:Which ones of these do you agree with as being in line with a "hate ideology", Amberji ? I can see only one there that I would agree with as deserving further study based on data. Do you disagree ? And what is the data that one needs to look for even in that instance before rushing to claim victimhood on behalf of an entire community ?

Your views as a mathematician and JEE Topper have always been of considerable interest to me. :wink:


Excellent points. All the points the ex police commissioner quotes are a red herring. His main gripe is somewhat colonial. I am referring to his comment on Christians punching above their weight, and he cites cites the schools, colleges, hospitals etc that are run by Christians and Christian orgs. So his point is, how dare you bloody Hindus cast any aspersion on our activities, shouldn't you be thankful for the yeomen service we are rendering? Exactly the same logic supporters of Brit colonialism like former Indian PM MMS use, namely, Brits gave India so much including democracy, cricket, and railways, and so we should not whine about all the loot they took from India.

I did not know AmberJi is an IIT topper. I of course know of A_GuptaJi as an IIT topper stalwart, being a year or so senior to me from the same IIT :-).

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby Arjun » 17 Mar 2015 10:01

CRamS wrote:All the points the ex police commissioner quotes are a red herring. His main gripe is somewhat colonial. I am referring to his comment on Christians punching above their weight, and he cites cites the schools, colleges, hospitals etc that are run by Christians and Christian orgs. So his point is, how dare you bloody Hindus cast any aspersion on our activities, shouldn't you be thankful for the yeomen service we are rendering?

I think he's trying to position the Christian community as being akin to a "model minority" in India - and therefore his argument is that as a "model minority" the rest of the country needs to actively support them rather than running them down.

I would agree with his argument if indeed the community qualified as a "model minority" - similar to the position achieved by Indian Americans in the US. But statistics don't bear him out. Morover, Parsis in India qualify as a "model minority" not only due to their attainment in education and business - but also due to their conscious effort to integrate with the Indian population - famously exemplified by the "sugar in the milk" story of Parsis landing in India and seeking to integrate. This is exactly the same approach that Indian Americans take in the US. They beat all other communities in education, in income AND in not being confrontational about actively trying to run down American culture and propagate their own religion.

Some Indian Christian castes - like the Syrian Christians, also do not proselytize and show attainment stats that may qualify them to be termed a "model minority" but that would certainly not be an appropriate term for the broader Indian Christian community.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby nawabs » 17 Mar 2015 11:04

Paromaa Ray's defense

Image

She is not the only one. There's a whole batch created on yearly basis. For Eg. take this lady Aparajitha Raja who was my batchmate. She is daughter of D. Raja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Raja). She had contested twice in DU elections but lost both the times.

https://twitter.com/nishapahuja/status/ ... 0031249408

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby uddu » 17 Mar 2015 16:37

There is a psychological warfare being waged to scare the population of the Hindus
A copy of what was done during Delhi elections
This was the same tactics employed all the times when there was BJP was in power.
In Karnataka that was how Congress came to power.
The first thing is to create communal violence. Then send in the media to showcase the attack and blame it on Modi.
Scare the population into believing that electing a Modi govt or BJP govt will cause issues and even make the Hindus vote for the Congress or the Pseudo secularist.
I strongly believe that the attacks are carried out the Pseudo Secularists to make Modi look like the culprit.
The BJP must counter this strongly with evidence of what's being done and by whom to the media.
Let them use the same media to counter the Pseudos.
And above all arrest them and hang all the culprits involved in planning and conducting such crimes.
Openly expose and hang them. Let a strong message be send out forever.

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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Postby CRamS » 17 Mar 2015 18:26

nawabsJi,

Paromaa Ray is being duplicitous and being too clever by half in justifying her self-loathing question (I am of course assuming she is a Hindu). Her stats are probably correct, no doubt Dalits, many sections of Muslims, and for sure women live in dire poverty. My heart also bleeds for them. But her question, rather self righteous angst was to take this out on ModiJi. If she had just stuck to stats, and in fact asked the IMF chief in an objective way if free-market policies can help alleviate poverty or exacerbate them, and in the process cited these kinds of stats, no problem. It would have signified a young thinking woman with a passion to understand these kinds of deep issues. No, she didn't exhibit any intelligence, and specifically targeted ModiJi and blaming him and BJP govt for patriarchy. No point piling on her, she is a just brainwashed, colonial-minded victim of a larger malaise. She was trying to impress and be self-righteous: aka argumentative Indian.


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