French military action in Mali

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 14 Jan 2013 10:00

Like the libyan one need a thread to post all links detailing the military ops -

clip of M2ks getting ready

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1y1_QGqnc#!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTpCa9vSc4Q




if it goes multi national - can change subject

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Raja Bose » 14 Jan 2013 10:16

Which is the French SF unit which attempted the hostage rescue? Is it Commando Hubert?

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Brando » 14 Jan 2013 10:54

The most interesting thing so far, IMO, has been the sheer speed at which the French have acted. I would expect such willingness towards military action from the Right-wing Sarkozy but Francois Hollande seemed far meeker and his government's readiness to jump into this militarily before any serious diplomatic or political process has taken place is quite puzzling especially since Mali is a desolate, impoverished nation with little to offer the French. In fact I suspect, the speed at which the French have acted has surprised quite a few people in Africa and they and the African Union and they are scrambling to react to this crisis lest it seem that only the ex-imperialists seem to care.

It is hard to imagine India opting for military action so rapidly on ANY issue, even in our own backyard.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9965
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby sum » 14 Jan 2013 11:19


It is hard to imagine India opting for military action so rapidly on ANY issue, even in our own backyard.

We will just keep shifting our "redlines" after every previous redline is violated. :|

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1752
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby wig » 14 Jan 2013 12:07

rakshaks might want to read how the americans trained mail soldiers only to find them defect to the islamists
excerpts
For years, the United States tried to stem the spread of Islamic militancy in the region by conducting its most ambitious counterterrorism program ever across these vast, turbulent stretches of the Sahara.

But as insurgents swept through the desert last year, commanders of this nation’s elite army units, the fruit of years of careful American training, defected when they were needed most — taking troops, guns, trucks and their newfound skills to the enemy in the heat of battle, according to senior Malian military officials


mali captain amadou sanogo trained by the US Special forces did this, (presumably what he was trained to) one is amazed at what american training does to soldiers. as a general rule of thumb they take over their country (read Bakistan)

Then an American-trained officer overthrew Mali’s elected government, setting the stage for more than half of the country to fall into the hands of Islamic extremists. American spy planes and surveillance drones have tried to make sense of the mess, but American officials and their allies are still scrambling even to get a detailed picture of who they are up against


of course the americans trained them for four years but the coup progressed very rapidly for them to keep tabs and during the four years
Over the last four years, the United States has spent between $520 million and $600 million in a sweeping effort to combat Islamist militancy in the region without fighting the kind of wars it has waged in the Middle East. The program stretched from Morocco to Nigeria, and American officials heralded the Malian military as an exemplary partner. American Special Forces trained its troops in marksmanship, border patrol, ambush drills and other counterterrorism skills.

But all that deliberate planning collapsed swiftly when heavily armed, battle-hardened Islamist fighters returned from combat in Libya. They teamed up with jihadists like Ansar Dine, routed poorly equipped Malian forces and demoralized them so thoroughly that it set off a mutiny against the government in the capital, Bamako.

A confidential internal review completed last July by the Pentagon’s Africa Command concluded that the coup had unfolded too quickly for American commanders or intelligence analysts to detect any clear warning signs.


and the americans now are left with one very disappointed general and perumably some astounded and embarrassed top American military commanders.
“I was sorely disappointed that a military with whom we had a training relationship participated in the military overthrow of an elected government,” Gen. Carter F. Ham, the head of the Africa Command, said in a speech at Brown University last month . “There is no way to characterize that other than wholly unacceptable

and now
But even that backup plan failed, as Islamists pushed south toward the capital last week. With thousands of French citizens in Mali, its former colony, France decided it could not wait any longer, striking the militants at the front line and deep within their haven. p

we can expect similar outcomes in all these areas also as the troops are all trained by americans
The program stretched from Morocco to Nigeria, and American officials heralded the Malian military as an exemplary partner. American Special Forces trained its troops in marksmanship, border patrol, ambush drills and other counterterrorism skills.



you may read the whole article in the new york times here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/world ... =1&_r=0&hp

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Jan 2013 12:55

there was footage of rafales moving 'into theatre' last night. interesting how many 2 seaters are in the mix
raf is providing 2 C17's for logistics support
hollande is claiming it will be a 'matter of a few weeks' - but if the islamists are as entrenched as some fear, then it might just be the start of a new front in the GWT

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Brando » 14 Jan 2013 15:48

Al-Qaeda's New Homeland : Mali
http://youtu.be/Sj6e0fZqG-k

wig wrote:rakshaks might want to read how the americans trained mail soldiers only to find them defect to the islamists

As usual the Americans went heavy on guns and light on politics - just like Afghanistan and Iraq where they completely ignored the politics and ethnic identities on the ground.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Jan 2013 16:11

situation in mali seems quite serious

Indrajit
BRFite
Posts: 166
Joined: 19 Feb 2004 12:31
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Indrajit » 14 Jan 2013 16:21

Rafales are also put into action,saw the clip in BBC.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2013 16:38

without boots on ground, at best the french can stem the tide and keep the islamic armies from staging a major breakthrough to the south, but for this someone has to take charge of the remnants of the malian national army, train them into shape and atleast make them hold a defensive line while more units get trained to retake the north and supplies can be built up.

while the first airstriles may have caught them concentrated and napping in camp, they will quickly disperse and become hard to find targets now.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Jan 2013 16:43

the plan is for the french forces to hold the main base areas - i guess the pivot points - and then the malians to do the actual fighting. i suspect that means the french provide the defensive line and operating bases plus special forces and air strike coordination and recee/intel
unkil has outsourced this to the service provider with local connections

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 14 Jan 2013 18:49

guys

please leave political comparisons out of this - else the admins will come calling

Lalmohan - is there a link for the Rafaele clips?

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Jan 2013 18:58

don't know, saw it on bbc earlier

wilson_th
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 14:16

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby wilson_th » 14 Jan 2013 20:24

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ja ... rison-town


Lost a soldier..

How else to justify the loss of a soldier so quickly, and the knocking out of a Mirage 2000 fighter jet against people with only Kalashnikovs."

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 14 Jan 2013 20:31

sum wrote:

It is hard to imagine India opting for military action so rapidly on ANY issue, even in our own backyard.

We will just keep shifting our "redlines" after every previous redline is violated. :|


I know.. but I guess the bombing across the ocean desolated Mali and doing the same to a nuclear armed crazy neighbor is not the same thing. We have performed military intrusion with smaller neighbors like Srilanka, Maldives, Bhutan and Bangladesh. So the comparison is not exactly valid... Remember North Korean sinking South Korean frigate couple of years back? What South has done in reply to that?


Francois Hollande seemed far meeker and his government's readiness to jump into this militarily before any serious diplomatic or political process has taken place is quite puzzling especially since Mali is a desolate, impoverished nation with little to offer the French.


Mali geographically is very close to France and Italy. They cant let a militant radical Islamic govt. so close to their shore.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 14 Jan 2013 20:37

sigh

once again - can you please take your comparisons to India to hot air forum

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2013 20:44

I posted a few clips of M2K in international aviation thread yesterday. france already has a airbase in Chad with M2k.

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 14 Jan 2013 20:50

There is one epic display of low level flying of Mirage 2000 in Chad


Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 14 Jan 2013 21:06

prithwiraj

I dont think that has anything to do with this conflict

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Brando » 14 Jan 2013 21:07

^^ Also they are Mirage F1s not Mirage 2000s.


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2013 21:28

among other reasons they likely maintain these african bases for wide open flying ranges and a2g test ranges compared to restricted airspaces in europe.

also seems to be a total lack of adult supervision going by the lo lo lo stuff :)

btw I know indians work in ghana, we have a family friend there. if burkina faso falls, ghana is next and the indians will need to return for sure.

member_19969
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 28
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_19969 » 14 Jan 2013 21:47


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20147
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Philip » 14 Jan 2013 23:27

The French Foreign Ministry and Defence Ministry are like two sides of the same coin,unlike the situ in India! The French have their strategic interests clearly spelt out ,especially in Africa and the former French colonies.Yet again unlike our MEA,they act rather than make profound speeches-signifying nothing,as the bard said.France well understands that diplomacy is useless unless accompanied by strong military force when neccessary,and the French action in Mali is in direct contrast to India's inaction against Paki perfidy.It is shameful that only Mr.Modi (BJP)and the shiv Sena have done their patriotic duty by asking Pakis to leave.Where are the rest of the political parties of India?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53474
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby ramana » 14 Jan 2013 23:57

Good job Surya.

Nightwatch on Mali action:
http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/Ni ... 00010.aspx

Mali-France: Last Friday, France began its direct intervention in the Malian civil war, at the request of the Bamako government after Islamists, terrorist and jihadis captured a key town on the road from the north to Bamako. The immediate French objective was to stop the jihadis at Konna and to deter them from moving farther south to capture Bamako. Konna had been the boundary between the Islamist and government held regions.

French Rafale fighter jets bombed Islamist rebel targets in central Mali for three days. With French Air Force support, Malian forces - almost certainly with French ground forces --recaptured Konna on Saturday, a day after it was seized by Islamist rebels.

A Malian rebel spokesman said the French also bombed targets in the towns of Gao, Lere and Douentz, over the weekend.

France's Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said French intervention on Friday had prevented rebels from seizing Bamako itself. He said air raids would continue in the coming days. He also said that France has deployed about 550 soldiers to Mali, split between Bamako and the town of Mopti, 500 km northeast, as part of "Operation Serval" - named after an African wildcat.

The French foreign minister made it clear that France was now targeting Islamist bases in the north of Mali and said Algeria, which shares a long border with Mali, had given permission for its air space to be used for bombing raids "without limit".

Islamist rebels reportedly were abandoning Timbuktu and other northern towns to try to escape the French air attacks for which they have no defense
.


Comment: Understandably, French leaders have provided limited details about the size of the land and air forces committed to Operation Serval and the bases from which the air forces are operating. France has multiple staging options, from Senegal to Chad. At least one squadron each of Rafale and Mirage fighters and probably a regiment of French ground forces have been committed to defend Bamako and drive the Islamists from northern Mali.

The speed and apparent accuracy of the French Air Force attacks indicate French military intelligence has been following the situation closely and provided French Air Force targeteers with sufficiently detailed intelligence about Islamist activities to support a week of air attacks.

The French obviously also performed detailed contingency planning and were ready when the orders came from the President.

Another point is that President Hollande, a socialist, is not like ex-President Sarkozy who was reluctant to intervene in security problems in Franco-phone Africa. Hollande has ordered timely and strong military action to prevent the capture of Bamako. In this, he has received swift support from multiple former French colonial states, much faster than the UN or the African regional organizations were able to manage on their own.

The French government has ordered a general increase in vigilance by French citizens, including those in Africa, against a Muslim backlash.

Mali-France-UK: The first Royal Air Force C17 cargo aircraft arrived at a Paris today to help French military logistics in support of the effort to defeat the Islamist rebels in Mali.

The first of two C17s will load French armored vehicles and other equipment for delivery to Mali on Monday. A second C17 will be used to establish a logistics shuttle between Paris and Bamako to support French troops. No UK troops would be deployed in a combat role, A UK spokesperson said.

The US, Denmark and other NATO states also are supporting the French and Malians.

Comment: The BBC reported this help for France is part of the "pooling and sharing" arrangement for increasingly scarce military resources pursuant to a defense agreement signed by both countries. The French Air Force lacks the heavy lift and long range capability of the RAF's C17s.


Mali-African states: The following states have committed a battalion of ground troops to the effort to recapture northern Mali. Others may follow.


Niger

Senegal

Burkina Faso

Togo

Nigeria


member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 00:29

First footage of the aftermath.....

warning...graphic

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86f_1358186225

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 00:32

French must be using Eurocopter one of which went down sadly killing the pilot...this stock image is from Luftwaffe

Image

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Brando » 15 Jan 2013 02:19

^^ Nope.

The French are using the Aérospatiale Gazelle mounted with 20mm guns and/or HOT Missiles with Viviane sights as they are cheaper to fly and are adequate for the job.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx? ... 6a58c0dce0

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2013 02:24

thanks Brando

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 02:41

Brando wrote:^^ Nope.

The French are using the Aérospatiale Gazelle mounted with 20mm guns and/or HOT Missiles with Viviane sights as they are cheaper to fly and are adequate for the job.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx? ... 6a58c0dce0


yes... this is the image of the killed commander of the helicopter unit.. RIP

Image


member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 02:48

Mali's Rebels: A Look At A Mosaic Of Armed Groups

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1 ... lp00000003

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 02:51

Nice piece of multimedia depicting the action

http://api.dmcloud.net/player/pubpage/4 ... autoplay=1

Image

Image

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2013 02:59

darn - the French Gazelle guys are pretty good but unfortunately helos are vulnerable and it looks like the jehadis have 23 mm truck mounted guns.


http://lemamouth.blogspot.fr/2013/01/se ... suite.html


this seems to suggest some F1 CRs are on their way

other reports mention a few Tigers on the C 17s from UK

another report with some details of deployment

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... li-380993/

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 05:07

More footage coming out








RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby RoyG » 15 Jan 2013 05:42

The west is trying to contain the leakage of their policy of using islamists to counter shia-sino-russian axis. The sunni's are emboldened after arab spring and US withdrawal from Afghanistan and know that it's only a matter of time before western economies collapse like a row of dominoes.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2013 07:05

Royg

please clear your post - this thread is only for links and info on the military operations

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21089
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Prem » 15 Jan 2013 07:10

Mali has lot of U as we know Al Qaida Khan of Pakistan have a small motel set up there for this purpose. It will do ggod to the world if French really cream the Islamists terrorists for good.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Singha » 15 Jan 2013 07:31

In timbuktu various historical relics have apparently been destroyed by the islamists as they pre date islam and hence haram.

Such priceless relics are used to erase and control the culture as in bamiyan. Future afghans will never know what bamiyan was as its erased now.

Hellfire armed drones are a must have in this kind of war..cheap too vs manned platforms...us should depute a couple sqdns from their africa command.

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby Raja Bose » 15 Jan 2013 07:42

Warning: NSFW and Graphic
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ba_1358192705
Body of the French soldier who was MIA. Going by the wide array of kit and level of equipment, he is definitely SF.

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: French military action in Mali

Postby member_20067 » 15 Jan 2013 08:21

Raja Bose wrote:Warning: NSFW and Graphic
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ba_1358192705
Body of the French soldier who was MIA. Going by the wide array of kit and level of equipment, he is definitely SF.


Subtle things like the christ cross that the soldier was wearing is deliberately displayed to stoke the jihadis mentality..


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lekhraj, nandakumar and 58 guests