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The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

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Prem
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Prem » 16 Mar 2014 22:32

AbhiJ wrote:X Post from Malaysia Airliner thread:

. I don't know what it is: Hinduism, the so-called fatalism of Indians. But the way the passengers stayed so calm throughout, even the children, was exemplary. I told myself, if the plane had been full of Italians or French, it would have been very different.[/b]


A perfect weapon to take care of Islamist Jihadi morale. No doubt , their ship capsized in India and Children of Ganga made them go Nanga by preparing very subtle Fandha for these Gandhas and put them in liquid O.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 23 Mar 2014 15:58

Published on Mar 23 2014
By Shubhanshu Sharma
Lord Meghnad Desai finds 2014 LS polls more important than 1977 elections

Desai called India a nation of many nations and said the elections gave it one identity.

"What kind of a nation is India? It is a multinational polity, not a single country. It was created as a single country in the 19th century and became one thanks to elections."


Lard MegaNut blessing us with his wisdom! :roll:

People putting out such nonsense narratives, at least their banning from Indian media and academics, would hopefully be one of the important changes of these elections.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 23 Mar 2014 16:06

Agnimitra ji,

Since I don't visit the Strategic Forum these days (so planned till May 16, 2014), did not see your post addressed to me. I would have to give some thought to it, perhaps deeper than I feel I am yet capable of. :)

Would get back to you on it after studying it.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 27 Mar 2014 11:52

Will 2014 elections see the goalposts of Indian politics make a quantum shift rightwards?

The rise of the right liberal Indian

------------
RajeshA ji, sorry just saw your post. No problemo.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby harbans » 27 Mar 2014 14:22

Will 2014 elections see the goalposts of Indian politics make a quantum shift rightwards?


Wrote on this theme last month.

http://vicharprachar.wordpress.com/2014 ... discourse/

I disagree with Meghnad Desai that these elections are the most important since 77. These elections in reality are the most important since independence where we got saddled with Nehruvian left pseudo liberal socialism and pseudo secularism. Modi changes all the equations including with numerous institutions set up in the Nehruvian mould. That is what bugs Rajdeep Sardesai when he asks MJA "Will Nehru approve?". The MSM is facing massive cognitive dissonance, never imagined before. They've in the process made a star of a candidate that is likely to get 1 seat and trying their hardest to ignore Modi that is going to sweep their decades old mental makeups in the garbage of history. It's not easy to swallow once one is so far down the path of Nehruvian Left Pseudo liberal thinking. That's what i put up in the blog too.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 28 Mar 2014 21:47

Religion & Conversion

SwamyG wrote:I do think conversion is a birthright, an individual should have the Right to convert to another religion. All one can demand is have a level playing field and justice.


The problem is one does not look more closely at what religion is and what conversion entails.

RSS's faith is simply Bharat Mata. Conversion means plain and simple, associating with the interests of another civilizational interest.

It is in the interest of Western world not to differentiate between faith/belief and religion. But there is a huge difference which gets buried under a large carpet of political correctness and media silence.

Religion is nothing but a certain civilizational establishment using claims of truth of a certain transcendental model in order to control society and propagate itself into various native cultures.

Allowing conversion is allowing one's people to be harvested to serve the interests of other civilizational establishments.

Perhaps one wants to say, people should be allowed to believe whatever they want and appreciate some transcendental model of their choice. Nothing against it. But that is not conversion, that is just freedom of belief. For that there is no need to adopt social systems having birth in non-Dharmic lands. For that there is no need for reciting say the Shahada or the Nicene Creed or associating oneself with a Church, or calling oneself Muslim or Christian, and thus adopting a different group identity.

So if treason is not a birthright, how can conversion be a birthright? I may or may not be equating the both, but regardless of that, even considering them as two different things altogether, one cannot deny that there are certain structural parallels. Right?

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby SwamyG » 29 Mar 2014 04:24

RajeshA: We can split hairs and discuss the definitions for 1000 years. My point is simple, I should have every right to change my worship from Muruga (or Koti Hindu devas/devis) to Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster. Similarly a Muslim should have the right to worship Ayyappa. So on, so forth.

This is a classic blog, though talking on Agile practices vs culture, has relevance to the discussion of traditions, culture and religion.

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2014 ... Agile.html

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Prem » 29 Mar 2014 05:33

What if a conversion results in being becoming enemy of mother cvilisation and soil? There should be a freedom for its children to prevent such happening lest any leniency cause the destruction and obliviousness like that to Misr, Persia,Rome and Yunan. Individual conversion is ok but society at large need not carry the extra burden which comes with Conversion to dogma which calls for elimination of "others".

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Mar 2014 06:07

What is the hope of ensuring
(a) a better turnout of "yindoos" than what was achieved in 2004 and 2009
and
(b) a better percentage of even those who are informed enough to vote in an informed manner
and
(c) at least one decent candidate in each constituency?

I think effort may be better spent on the above 3 than in grand discombobulations of all the miracles that will occur "when Namo comes to power".
1. First of all, anyone who remembers the competence and cluefulness of the EnDeeAy in 1999-2004, has little reason to hold out any hope for the vast majority of the Mantris
2. The Babucracy has this crowd totally figured out, so they will blow them off, and totally twist them around their little crooked fingers.

I feel like a TeeEssJay pouring cold water on inspired discussions, but this is what I see..

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby svenkat » 29 Mar 2014 06:56

Reality checks from Grand Ayotullahs/yak herders is good.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby devesh » 29 Mar 2014 10:00

brihaspati wrote:The swing or accumulation of votes in favour of a candidate in Indian elections does not necessarily reflect the motivations ascribed by urban intellectuals - who conveniently decide that the same population gives super-importance to selected "civilizational issues" over "economic development" which they also favour, but then the very same population also hate "civilizational issues" which they hate, and vote for "economic development" onlee.


What I see happening, is something that is not new for India - genuine popular discontent against a regime is cleverly harnessed by a political conmen, probably with a core of genuine leadership - but with ever increasing circles of opportunists surrounding them, when they smell that popular discontent might indeed change the very regime to which they have hitherto sucked on to like leeches and served as mosahibs against these very same people.

Time and again I see this argument that "now the need of the hour is to encourage and not do anything that psyches out the new entrants - swingers - switchers of support from the older regime". Inevitably each genuine change aspirant movement ultimately fails because it allows these two level opportunist voices to gain limelight. One level justifies the induction of the opportunists by similar arguments, (the external voices) and the other one acts from within the new movement. Typically they will seek to displace the "old-guard", because the older-guard would have developed within the more struggling phase and hence less corruptible and an obstacle for the leech-class to stay on in a beneficial arrangement with the state under change of regime.

There is a recent study on social-psychopathology of the US population. By an extension, typically there is likely to be a much higher proportion of these in the political and financial industry. The most notable feature of this psychopathology is their charismatic nature.

I think BJP is headed that way. The leech class is so widely entrenched, that it will reinvent itself within the "Modification" drive. Modi himself could be the epitome of incorruptibility, but already we see the signs of avatarification phenomena - a typical sign that the leech-class has actually leeched on to the "new".

I see that the demand for BJP/Modi dropping civilizational issues as not vote-worthy, vote-damaging, highlighting and pressurizing that onlee economic "development" be stressed with complete erasure of "civilizational concerns" - is a demand of the leech class. The vacuum ideology section that sustained a Jawaharlal Nehru in the first place, and what they want is a new Nehru. Modi can serve the purpose of getting a Nehru since he can sustain the illusion among the civilizational aspiration thread within the current discontent, and thereby manage the "saffron assertion" that would otherwise cost external and internal religious interests - while the cozy financial interests that benefit onlee a small proportion of Indian populations can be maintained in exclusive networks.

Jawaharlal nehru did not become what he became - a cynical manipulator, personal responsibility shirker, with a maniacal obsession with maintaining personal image and personal power even at the cost of not being truthful to the nation, entirely out of his own character. He was shaped up in interaction with an immensely corrupting and totally-devoid-of-humanity colonial regime as well as the leech-class that had already shaped up in India in the north surviving in collaboration with and a vacuum ideology under Islamic rule.

The leech class and the Brits saw potential in him being the substitute who could be used to assure the increasingly restless anti-colonial sentiments of Indians, and contain them, while managing a smooth transfer of power bypassing these "chaotic/fundamentalist/Hindu" masses so that the financial and elite interests and networks that had developed in collaboration under the Brits could continue in a cozy beneficial relationship with the new regime.

The same method is being applied on Modi. And he is really alone. He will be eventually even more isolated - as a new coterie will form, who will do their best to eliminate and sideline anyone seen to be connected to the "older" guard. There will be many a old political battle scar that cane be used to drive the wedges further - for onlee in greater isolation of Modi from the older subnetworks that fueled the BJP, with a steady replacement of potential stubborn pieces by more "flexible" newer functionaries - being actually a facilitator for the leech class reinventing itself in state power after swinging from the Congress.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 01 Apr 2014 03:59

SwamyG wrote:RajeshA: We can split hairs and discuss the definitions for 1000 years. My point is simple, I should have every right to change my worship from Muruga (or Koti Hindu devas/devis) to Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster. Similarly a Muslim should have the right to worship Ayyappa. So on, so forth.

This is a classic blog, though talking on Agile practices vs culture, has relevance to the discussion of traditions, culture and religion.

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2014 ... Agile.html


SwamyG ji,

It's a very fundamental difference and hence I am trying to highlight it.

There is no issue with choosing a target and form of worship of one's choice and liking: Muruga or Allah, Jesus or Buddha!

However often this is called freedom of religion, whereas it is only freedom of belief/worship/faith.

Religion on the other hand goes much further and binds one to a group identity whose social codex and political agenda is overseen by the ideological and power establishment in control of that group, and this agenda may very well be at variance with both Dharma and Bharatiyata, our sense of Rashtriya identity to which we owe our loyalty as Bharatiyas.

A Mandir is not a Church or a Mosque. A Mandir is an optimal place/facility to direct one's worship to the deity. A Church or a Mosque is a place to renew one's pledge to the group and the agenda, with worship thrown in only as a tool to strengthen that commitment.

So the difference between an Allah-bhakt and a Muslim is much much more than a spliced hair!

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby SwamyG » 01 Apr 2014 04:56

And an individual should have the right to move from institution/group to another. If it means severance of relationship so be it.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Gus » 01 Apr 2014 05:24

so you would tell somebody like abdul kalam that he is not a "bharatiya" and what would that leave him as? "anti-bharatiya"?

indic, dharmic, bharatiya are all very conphoosing for me...

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 01 Apr 2014 12:48

Religion & Conversion

SwamyG wrote:And an individual should have the right to move from institution/group to another. If it means severance of relationship so be it.


Two aspects are being ignored here.

1) Re: Right to move from one institution/group to another: These institutions/groups can be some pensioners welfare association or it can be a terrorist organization. One is beneficial, other is harmful to society. So nature of institution/group one moves to is relevant.

Ignoring nature of a group/institution within a country is akin to an organism ignoring the nature of an agent within it, not differentiating between organism's own tissue and possibly harmful pathogens. It is akin to shutting down the immune subsystem of a system.

I hardly think one would claim that cells within a body have the right to be either own tissue or external pathogens! Otherwise one might as well go ahead and inject oneself with HIV.

Unless one advocates such a policy, it should be considered not only acceptable but necessary that the nature of the institution/group within the Rashtra be open to scrutiny, especially if it is a religious institution/group.

The institution/group needs to be adequately qualified before speaking of rights to move to it.

2) Re: Severance of relationship: If we are talking about moving to a different religious institution/group and severing relationship to the former or host, then it is worth asking what exactly are we severing our relationship to. By adopting a different social codex and political agenda which comes as part of the package, one would be severing one's identification with native social codex and native rashtriya interests. Native social codex is based upon Dharma and our Rashtriya interests revolve around Bharatiyata, which can be understood as

Dharma is the Ārya system of Meta-Ethics.


Bharatiyata is the identification with the Bharatiya Sabhyata, the culturally diverse civilization that organically evolved in Bharat under the guidance of Dharma.


The question arises why should the native order based on Dharma and Bharatiyata give institutions and groups to rise within Bharat, which have the intention of and interests in undermining this order.

Gus wrote:so you would tell somebody like abdul kalam that he is not a "bharatiya" and what would that leave him as? "anti-bharatiya"?

indic, dharmic, bharatiya are all very conphoosing for me...


Individuals may personally reject the social codex and political agenda of the institutions/groups they may formally be a part of,associated with, but that does not change the fact that these institutions/groups institutionally do follow policies which may not be congruent to Dharma and Bharatiyata.

One example of such institutional thinking is the "Stop Modi" campaign among various Muslim communities around India during the upcoming General Elections.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Abhi_G » 01 Apr 2014 20:59

Individuals may personally reject the social codex and political agenda of the institutions/groups they may formally be a part of,associated with, but that does not change the fact that these institutions/groups institutionally do follow policies which may not be congruent to Dharma and Bharatiyata.


There are no better words to explain. Numerous examples of perfectly fine gentlemen/ladies belonging to a religious denomination other than the native tradition but respectful to the indigenous tradition, do not change the basic DNA of Abrahamic religions. Uprooting the native traditions through conversions, outbreeding or outright conquest remains an objective that should be strived for. One can just look at the current condition of Bengali Hindus in Bangladesh or the Hindus in Pakistan. They are victims of a continuous process of conquest and physical and psychological subjugation.

Conversions represent the insidious process to reach the objective of world domination through subterfuge and allurement. It prepares the ground for a future takeover. Anybody would realize the threat. Just think how the general gora janata in US will react if the demography changes in a way that is happening in Europe?

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 08 Apr 2014 14:43

Bharat: Natural Home for Persecuted Hindus [Blog] [Tweet]

Perhaps for the first time in our history, a national political party has included a special provision for Hindus. In the BJP Manifesto 2014 it says:

India shall remain a natural home for persecuted Hindus and they shall be welcome to seek refuge here.


Some Seculars have objected to making a special reference only to persecuted Hindus outside India. They are willing to overlook both reality and logic that for other persecuted minorities like Muslims and Christians there are a host of other possibilities for refuge, but for Hindus, only option is Bharat.

The Seculars are adamant that in Indian Laws there cannot be a special provision for Hindus, regardless of how the world treats them and regardless of what their situation is. They are of the opinion that "Idea of India" forbids such differentiation, though they just as well ignore special provisions for Muslims, citing the premise that as a minority, Muslims are automatically oppressed, and thus need special protections and privileges.

So we have to revisit the concept of Secularism in India as well as the "Idea of India".

Why did Partition of India happen? - It happened because Muslim leadership in India was of the opinion that they were a different Qaum, a different people, than the rest of Indians - the Hindus. All thisat is borne out by Islam, its social codices, its memes, it political behavior the world over. Nothing surprising there. So if Partition took place based on religious division, one should ask what are Muslims doing in India? The Partition should have meant all Muslims of British India go to Pakistan and all Hindus remain in Republic of India. This did not happen!

Indian National Congress under the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi and Jawarlal Nehru proposed that India would not make any distinction between Hindus and Muslims and treat both equally under the ideologically umbrella of "Secularism" and the Flag of India. Any Muslim who agreed with this can remain in India while all who saw Islam as a separate Qaum can go to Pakistan.

Not going into whether JLN was authorized to take such a decision in the name of Hindus, let's for the time accept Nehru's proposal.

So what did the "Secularism" pact mean for India?

  1. Derived Rights: One thing one should not forget is that if Pakistan was made for Subcontinental Muslims, then the automatic corollary to that is that Republic of India was made for Hindus. Muslims of India lost the natural right to secularist treatment due to Partition on basis of religion. The rights given to Muslims under Secularism in India have to be seen as a gift, as a concession to Indian Muslims by Hindus. It was Hindus' prerogative to give these rights. This prerogative was won by Hindus simply by the fact that the demand for a separate nation arose among the Muslims, and they received their wish of Pakistan. This cannot be denied. It was Hindu prerogative to allow or not allow equal treatment of Muslims under a Secularist polity. So Secularism is an attained right for Muslims. One could say it is a derived right rather than a fundamental right as far as birth of India in 1947 is concerned, even though it has been written down as a fundamental right as far as birth of Indian Constitution in 1950 is concerned. Without the secularist concession of 1947 establishing the basis for a derived right, there would not have been the fundamental right either in the Constitution.

    In fact, there is ample proof that it is a Hindu concession to the Muslims. The provision of Reservations for SC/ST in Constitution is there only for Hindu SC/STs, and not for those converted to Islam or Christianity. This supersedes the principle of Secularism. If India was truly Secular, the Constitution would not have differentiated SC/ST on the basis of religion, but it does.

    It does so because "Reservations for SC/ST" was the second major social pact that the Hindus entered into besides the "Secularist Pact".

    It was not just Indians making these social pacts. It was Hindus making these pacts. It was their prerogative to decide what pacts to make, what concessions to make.

    The "Reservations for SC/ST" underlines that "Secularism" is not a fundamental right, but a social pact offered by the Hindus to the Muslims.

  2. What does "Secularism Pact" entail for Muslims? This is an aspect of polity in India that is completely overlooked. Wasn't there some condition on Muslims who decided to stay back in India post-Partition? YES, there was a condition. The condition was those Muslims who stay back in India would be those who don't believe in the Two-Nation Theory. They would be those who would consider Islam not as a Qaum but only as a Deen. The segregationist, secessionist, separatist element of Islam which nurtures Qaumi thinking, was to be rejected and suppressed. There should be no Pakistaniyat among Indian Muslims. Also the contempt and hatred for Hindu beliefs was to be rejected if the Muslims desired to live with Hindus together in Republic of India. Provided this happened, the Muslims were free to practice, preach and propagate their faith.

    This is the criterion to which Indian Muslims are to be held. One can call this criterion Hindustaniyat! And there can be no leeway on that.

    The state on the other hand needs to work actively to promote integration of Muslims into Hindu mainstream, and to actively undermine all social and cultural traits which lead to Muslims considering themselves as a different Qaum, separate from Hindus. Most importantly the state cannot divide its citizens into majorities and minorities. That would be promoting Qaumi thinking.

  3. Limits to Secularism. All Secularism means is that individual citizens would not be differentiated on the basis of their faith, and they would be given the same fundamental rights and protections. There would be no discrimination based on spiritual beliefs of the people. Also one could say the state agrees not to advocate some particular truth claim or model of transcendental reality. In other words there would be no state "religion".

    So secularism is on the one hand a state-citizen relationship, and on the other state's ambivalence to matters of faith.

    But nowhere does Secularism say that Bharat would abdicate its responsibility towards upholding Dharma, our system of meta-ethics, or identifying itself with Bharatiya Sabhyata and Bharatiya Sanskriti.

    This is a state-nation relationship. And Republic of India, that is Bharat, derives its national consciousness from Bharatiya Sabhyata and Bharatiya Sanskriti, not from Islam, not from Western Civilization and not from Chinese Empires!

    Proponents of "Idea of India" have tried to package whole of Bharatiya Sabhyata and Bharatiya Sanskriti into a religion called "Hinduism" and try to ban it from India citing Secularism. That is going far beyond the provisions of the "Secularism Pact" that was offered by Hindus to the Muslims.

    It was not part of the pact that Hindus would commit civilizational suicide for the sake of Muslims and Christians!

to be continued ...

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Murugan » 11 Apr 2014 10:37

How Bharatiya identity was affected by forces in colonial era

1) Close association of the Romantic Movement in early 19th century Germany with the comparative study of languages and the reconstruction, on that basis, of a MASTER, UNSULLIED race

Contemporary German nationalism often imagined such a master race at the roots of the Germanic identity. AROUND THIS TIME THE MASTER RACE WAS GIVEN A NAME TOO - THE ARYANS. (now you know, the non-sense of Aryan Invasion started)

2) Concept of race and amalgamation with both language and culture (This is the root of so called PIE - the Proto-Indo-European BS)

3) This had a built-in belief in a superior/inferior hierarchy of races (and mythical aryan-dravidian faultline created in the minds of Indians)

4) Some tentative ideas of Indian 'races' were aired in the 2nd half of the 19th century, but towards the end of the century a systematic racial classification of Indian people was in place, with the Aryans at the top of the postulated hierarchy. Virtually all the major groups, including Aryans, were interpreted as having come from outside. (And all the non-sense has prevailed till date, thanks to Germany and obsession with superior unsullied race)

5) The early corpus of Sanskrit literature was also the earliest extant record of the 'Aryan' literature.

6) Major ingredient of Indology of this period was a carefully constructed dichotomy between ancient India and modern Indian and Indians. According to this, by the time British entered India, the aryan race and aryan civilization of India was degraded, and its rejuvenation could take place only under the British rule which in fact was a MODERN ARYAN RULE, because, linguistically and racially the Anglo-Saxons were placed within the pristine Aryan fold. This premise led to 'satisfy' the upper castes because they had ancient Aryan affiliation and establish cousinship with the new rulers, the British. Everybody were dubbed as mere passive recipients of various impulses coming from outside their geographical domain (this BS is still accepted by many de-racinated Indians)

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 14 Apr 2014 22:43

Now Mrs Antonia Maino Gandhi, alias Sonia ji, has decided to chip in and contribute to this thread and explain her ideas on "Bharatiyata"!



I wonder, I wonder ....

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Shankas » 15 Apr 2014 02:53

RajeshA wrote:Now Mrs Antonia Maino Gandhi, alias Sonia ji, has decided to chip in and contribute to this thread and explain her ideas on "Bharatiyata"!



I wonder, I wonder ....


Why is the Aaj Tak Clock not working?

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2014 06:17

Gentlemen,we are on the cup of history.This election is as important to India as the success of the Freedom Struggle,for it is India's very freedom that is at stake. Independence,won by the blood,sweat,toil and tears of an entire generation of Indians-who as far back as Mangal Pandey and all who rebelled against European colonialism and imperialism in the sub-continent,has over he last 60 years steadily been diluted.The last decade in particular has seen the very same forces who conquered India centuries ago,reconquer us through the 21st century Mir Jafars like quisling Surrender Singh and his Italian empress ,who conspired with the neo-colonialists to once again rule India by proxy,using policies which hurt ordinary Indians and reward their friang masters.Aided by an utterly unscrupulous gang of greedy Indian politicos ,the coffers have been looted in the hundreds of billions.All that we represent to the MNCs is a marketplace of 1+billion Indians who have to be exploited economically in every way,as was the policies of the UPA.

But "cometh the hour,cometh the man",sayeth the old adage ,and verily such a man has emerged from the humblest background to save Mother India,Bharat,yet again.A century ago a man of peace,Mahatma Gandhi used his non-violent mantra to oust the British,well-knowing that those were the tactics that would expose their brutal colonialism to the world,lose face,and retreat eventually.They could not hold back the tide of millions of Indians willing to brave batons and bullets with their bare hands!
But history has an uncanny knack of deja vu.Yet again from Gujarat,the home of the Mahatma, comes Narendra Modi,to rescue India from the snares of the firangis and their puppets who have raped India economically and have attempted to sow the seeds of discord through divisive vote-bank policies and who have now embarked upon a blatant communal campaign of hate to scare Indian Muslims into voting for the corrupt clique of the Congress and their partners in crime.

But what do the poll show us? The amazing fact that this time round,the Muslim community in large numbers have rejected the campaign of hate and calumny against Mr.Modi,a campaign which has spectacularly backfired! There is a universal swing towards the BJP and Mr.Modi of around 15%-17% in the entire northern belt,the so-called "cow belt" as some of our western oriented pundits like to describe it. And the "cows" are indeed coming in to vote for the humble chaiwallah of yore who has promised in no uncertain terms to restore to India its national identity and pride and to stride the globe as a great power befitting its ancient hoary history that has influenced billions of people worldwide through its culture,religions in peaceful manner and which will do so again under his leadership.

Already the alarm bells in Washington,London,etc.,are ringing.Every devious trick in the book is being used to derail the BJP and Mr.Modi.Even such scurrilous personal attacks against him by that impious clown Rahul G,who did not even spare his wife! The desperate attempts to derail the Modi Shatabdi is because of the foll:

1.India reviews NFU. This absurdity of policy when both Pak and China our mortal enemies refuse to adhere to leaves India completely open to a surprise nuclear attack. The go-slow in developing further our nuclear deterrent by the quisling regime ,has seen OPak leap ahead of us both in numbers of N-warheads and tactical N-missiles-both provided by a willing Chinese,and funded by the Saudis.
The US is most comfortable with this arrangement,as the Paki-Saudi axis of evils suits their policies in deterring Iran and keeping India at heel.It also diverts Chinese attention in other parts of Asia. Thus a drummed up campaign to create a huge fear complex amongst Indians for China,no dubt genuine fears are very valid,hopefully would see India rush into Uncle Sam's bosom. That was in short the foreign policy of Man Mohan Singh!

Under Mr.Modi and the NDA,India should embark upon an accelerated plan of expanding our strategic deterrent to develop ICBMs capable of reaching the continental US and large TN warheads which may require testing.This is how China gained respect from the US.It only respects the size of the stick that you carry and the number of sticks that you possess. Unless we possess a thousand +N warheads,we will never be acknowledged by the US as an N-weapon state.Pak and China together possess about that number.

2.The appeasement of Pak ends.A key component of the above firang policy of MMS was the appeasement of Pak.The issue is too well known on BRF to go into details.It will meet a swift end when Mr.Modi takes over. No sentimentality that Singh oozed,wanting to visit his gaon in Pak as PM,and who would go to any length for that to happen,even sacrificing Siachen for that to happen!

3.A robust defence policy.Here too the issues are too well known to enumerate.Swift decision making,expansion of the services and increase in the % of the GDP for the armed forces,massive indigenisation bringing in pvt. industry to compete with pampered DPSUs and integrating the armed forces into the MOD/MEA in determining or defence and foreign policies.

4."India first " economic policies ,that restore the wealth of rural areas through creation of work that first ensures that the "green revolution" by which India can feed itself is preserved and releasing Indian industry through elimination of red-tapism and the stranglehold of babudom perfected by the Congress/UPA bosses. Bans or heavy duties to be imposed upon the dumping of cheap goods from China,etc., which are destroying our local industry,esp. small-scale industries.

5. A sound energy policy,where we invest hugely in alternative energy sources with incentives,increase the search for hydrocarbons in our EEZ,plus sign up deals abroad with Iran,Russia etc,where we have stakes in on-going oil and gas ventures,plus long-term supplies of cheap energy wherever we can find it.Along with this a priority given to indigenous N-power R&D FBRs,thorium fuels,etc.,plus new reactors from abroad from nations willing to adhere to our N-Liability laws. Power projects to be given top priority ,esp. "green" sustainable ones.

6.A continuation of the NDA's infrastructure plans,but accelerated further with foreign help.Trans-national high speed rail links,expressways,mass transportation systems for metros and tier-2 cities,better public transportation systems to reduce individuals requiring to possess vehicles-as seen in developed nations,reducing pollution,etc.

7.A national water policy.Linking of rivers,etc, to see that every part of the country has enough water .Setting up of desalination plants along the coast,esp. next to N-plants/power plants, to ensure drinking water supply for towns and cities.

8.Conservation and reforestation.Absolutely essential if we are to leave to future generations what we inherited.This will also preserve the rights of tribals and ensure our survival,as global warming and destruction of our natural heritage is causing chaotis weather conditions globally and threatening the very survival of mankind.

9.Patronage of Indian culture,music,dance,all the arts and crafts of every region,which has declined in the last few decades,replaced by shallow Bollywood/Hollywood style entertainment that is eroding our rich ancient heritage .

10.Less state interference in education.The RTE act is a travesty if you go into the details. Unless we educate our children,we will wallow in poverty and ignorance. the state schools must be improved drastically while allowing pvt. schools to also flourish.We cannot punish pvt. schools for the incompetence of state schools.Future Kalams and Kuriens will emerge from where?

These are just a few points that come to mind.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Apr 2014 06:46

There is a concerted effort by the pseudo-secular "Sepoys" to paint Hindutva as being "anti-West". These sepoys include Indian "scholars" and professors ensconced in think-tanks and universities in the UK and US. They will use anything to prove that Hindutva is "anti-West", such as Rajiv Malhotra ji's writings, etc.

So there is a need to put the message out there loud and clear, that there is nothing fundamentally anti-West about Hindutva. In fact, Hindutva envisages a very significant synergy with the West - but only after a certain re-orientation occurs in Western mindsets about the global context. Hindutva is against India jumping into the Western orbit, but that does not mean Hindutva is anti-West at all.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Apr 2014 07:13

Yesterday was Ambedkar Jayanti. Shri MJ Akbar speaks on current BJP's manifesto and its Ambedkarite elements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho0tnzgomCY


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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 15 Apr 2014 15:35

Agnimitra wrote:There is a concerted effort by the pseudo-secular "Sepoys" to paint Hindutva as being "anti-West". These sepoys include Indian "scholars" and professors ensconced in think-tanks and universities in the UK and US. They will use anything to prove that Hindutva is "anti-West", such as Rajiv Malhotra ji's writings, etc.

So there is a need to put the message out there loud and clear, that there is nothing fundamentally anti-West about Hindutva. In fact, Hindutva envisages a very significant synergy with the West - but only after a certain re-orientation occurs in Western mindsets about the global context. Hindutva is against India jumping into the Western orbit, but that does not mean Hindutva is anti-West at all.


Agnimitra ji,

I liked very much your concise definition of Hindutva that it is not anti-West or anti-XYZ, but is foremost a anti-anti-Bharat ideology!

It is a fight-back of Native Traditions against Imperialist Predatory Ideology and Power-based Control Structures.

We will be seeing a lot of vitriol against Hindutva in Anglo-American press and the wider world media influenced by Western and Gulf controls. It is extremely important that they not be able to tarnish Hindutva.

So one would really need concise and logical ways to respond.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2014 16:45

This is the essence of the conflict.What is Hindutva? If Hindutva in simplistic terms means pro-India-in every sense of the word,then the relentless war against it being carried out in the Western media ("right-wing Hindu BJP,etc.) strikes at the very heart of Indian interests. So what therefore must replace Hindutva,according to its critics? In whatever terminology it is defined,it would run contrary to the India/Bharat that has existed for millennia. The "secualrism" practised by the Congress is nothing more than a "divide and rule" strategy used by our colonial masters. Self-sufficiency must be replaced by dependence upon global suppliers-as Quisling did by attempting to destroy India's self-sufficiency in N-tech through the N-deal with the US,s revealed in the recent books .
Its end result is the return of neo-colonialism through the destruction of the Indian ethos and the worship of "false gods",the global economic system and global culturisation.

Though I am no Commie,one must read the words of Marx to understand the devious nature of the "global agenda",which by its very nature is anti-HIndutva.There is much truth in what he said.very relevant today.

The description of capitalist expansion by Marx and Engels in The Communist Manifesto captures the driven nature of the bourgeois project and its global implications:

The need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the whole surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connections everywhere...
The bourgeoisie has through its exploitation of the world market given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country... All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are being destroyed. They are dislodged by new industries, whose introduction becomes a life and death question for all civilised nations, by industries that no longer work up indigenous raw material but raw material drawn from the remotest zones; industries whose products are consumed, not only at home, but in every quarter of the globe. In place of the old wants, satisfied by the productions of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes. In place of the old local and national seclusion and self sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal interdependence of nations.49

Marx, Engels and their co-thinkers anticipated that the expansion of capitalism from Europe would produce steady progress towards capitalist relations across what they called the 'colonial world'. Initially they expected that the immense economic and political weight of capitalism in the West would stimulate the growth of local capitalist classes, overwhelming rulers whose privilege rested upon pre-capitalist relations. As they wrote in The Communist Manifesto, 'The cheap prices of its commodities are the heavy artillery with which [capitalism] batters down all Chinese walls'.50 In India, where British rule was bringing rapid change, Marx commented that England had 'a double mission...one destructive, the other regenerating--the annihilation of the old Asiatic society, and the laying of the foundations of Western society in Asia'.51 The colonialists' were wholly self serving and, according to Marx, their methods were 'vile',52 but in India he observed that they were transforming a largely rural society in ways that eventually would have positive outcomes. Atomised, self contained village communities were being brought together by railways, the telegraph and the centralising impact of a British army and administration. In the course of time, social forces capable of revolutionising Indian society would emerge, producing 'the only social revolution ever heard of in Asia'.53

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 17 Apr 2014 03:00

BJP will make army training compulsory: VK Singh
Former Indian Army chief General VK Singh (retd) on Wednesday, while lauding the role of jawans belonging to Himachal Pradesh, said that the BJP would make army training in educational institutes compulsory if it came to power.

While talking to Hindustan Times here on Wednesday, he said there was a need to give more representation to the youth brigade of Himachal Pradesh in Indian forces to strengthen their morale.

He talked about the shortage of forces at the officers' and jawans' level and said that all vacant posts should be filled up on priority basis. He said that he had sent a proposal to the central government to introduce courses in schools and colleges to prepare youngsters for the Indian forces.

"However, that proposal has been dumped by a section of bureaucracy not interested in the welfare of Indian people and jawans. We will try to make army training compulsory in educational institutions once the BJP comes to power," said Singh.

The former Army General said that though personally he was not in favor of creation of more regiments on regional basis, yet there was a need for the restructuring of the regiments and to "bid good bye to the present system of recruitment in Indian forces".

"The present system had harmed the cause of many states including Himachal Pradesh," he added.
The former Army chief said that the reports of military coups by the Indian army as reported in a section of media was not based on facts and was purely on basis of hearsay.

"I had sent my reply and report to the Union government, but without any result. Now I'm planning to file a criminal case against the paper once the election process is over," he added.

He said that his aim to join the BJP was to end corruption from the Indian polity and provide a viable alternative to the Congress party that had "harmed the cause of India too much".

"India had suffered much under the Congress rule and this party should be ousted from the Indian polity forever," said Singh.

Talking about the announcement of 'one rank, one pension' by the central government, he said, "The reported announcement was made in haste and without any budget. Rahul Gandhi had done nothing but lied to the people," added the former general.

He said that the Aam Aadmi party had done no service to the family of Param Vir Chakra winner Vikram Batra by fielding his mother Kamla Kanta Batra in the Lok sabha election from Hamirpur.

"Instead, such families deserve emotional support and respect rather than dragging them into politics," said Singh.


Even if military training and service is not made "compulsory", optional military training and service for 1-2 years must be linked to eligibility for reservation quotas or certain educational subsidies.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Philip » 17 Apr 2014 07:18

It's what many feel,that at least 6 months of mil. training or some other form of community service for those medically unfit,should be compulsory for all students passing out of college.Some Western countries enforce it,so does "beseiged" Israel. This will make them more disciplined and learn to serve the nation.Since the state invests so much into subsidising education,students must return the compliment. As for the "braindrain" esp. to the US,with the majority never returning to India,a huge bond,equivalent to the cost of the course must be deposited with the GOI by every student planning to study in the US.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Prem » 17 Apr 2014 08:19

Agnimitra wrote:BJP will make army training compulsory: VK Singh
Former Indian Army chief General VK Singh (retd) on Wednesday, while lauding the role of jawans belonging to Himachal Pradesh, said that the BJP would make army training in educational institutes compulsory if it came to power.

While talking to Hindustan Times here on Wednesday, he said there was a need to give more representation to the youth brigade of Himachal Pradesh in Indian forces to strengthen their morale.
He talked about the shortage of forces at the officers' and jawans' level and said that all vacant posts should be filled up on priority basis. He said that he had sent a proposal to the central government to introduce courses in schools and colleges to prepare youngsters for the Indian forces."However, that proposal has been dumped by a section of bureaucracy not interested in the welfare of Indian people and jawans. We will try to make army training compulsory in educational institutions once the BJP comes to power," said Singh.Even if military training and service is not made "compulsory", optional military training and service for 1-2 years must be linked to eligibility for reservation quotas or certain educational subsidies.


Praise the lord, Let the 200 Millions of Indian Sons of Soil hold the Shastars and Sing the glory of Motherland.\ The Bharat Mata Ki Jai shout of 20 Crore armed youth wearing Kesri &facing Westward will make Many Mushes Moan, Groan,Torn and Blown in the Wind .

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby johneeG » 17 Apr 2014 08:25

I think making anything mandatory or compulsory is not the right way. In Bhaarath, it doesn't seem to work in the long run even if it is enforced in the short run. I think a better method is to create favourable environment by encouraging people to take up things voluntorily.

Its important that no idea is pushed too far because no idea is always good. Military training for all is not necessarily a good or bad idea in itself. I think it can go wrong as well.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby harbans » 18 Apr 2014 14:52

The skull debate being pushed by the MSM is a dangerous attack being launched on the freedom to follow one's parampara. I posted these points on twitter. Do add inputs and clarifications.

Image

Modi is being relentlessly attacked for following his Parampara by being asked why not a Middle East origin one. They are cloaking the fact that that is a ME one by saying it is Indian too because Islam has been around for 1000 years. Hence i made that list above. Help spread the truth. Many BJP spokespersons are not high on analytical or debating points. These could provide a template.

Actually it does not end with a skull cap, it goes to doing namaaz, then eating offerings on Bakr Id even if meat, and next level is slaughtering a goat or better a cow. on Bakr Id and so on. There is a point where the MSM should be told to get off.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby johneeG » 18 Apr 2014 15:03

Demand for wearing topi seems like just a start. What next? Eat halal meat?(Already, there seem to be iftaar parties) Then, what? Go to mosque or church to prove one is secular?(some politicians seem to be doing this also) What after that? Convert? Will even that suffice? Will there be demands similar to 'nagaland for christ'? Where will this end?

I am reminded of a famous movie scene:


Secularism means that religion should be kept separate and everyone has a right to follow their own religion. It does not mean forcing one religion on another. Modi should not be forced to convert to Islam for muslims to vote for him. People who talk of secularism, should not bring religion at all into discussion. If they raise the debate of 'what was done for so-and-so community?', then its not secularism anymore. And then every community will start thinking on same lines. One cannot have one's cake and eat it too. If one community expects to be appeased in most blatant manner, then it is not secularism, but appeasement. One should not confuse appeasement with fairness.

PS: Will there be demands that female politicians wear burqa/hijaab to appease muslims i.e. prove their 'secular credentials'?

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby member_20317 » 18 Apr 2014 15:54

johneeG wrote:I think making anything mandatory or compulsory is not the right way. In Bhaarath, it doesn't seem to work in the long run even if it is enforced in the short run. I think a better method is to create favourable environment by encouraging people to take up things voluntorily.

Its important that no idea is pushed too far because no idea is always good. Military training for all is not necessarily a good or bad idea in itself. I think it can go wrong as well.


johneeG Garu,

That would depend on what is accepted as 'education'. After all even now people make their kids go to school and have them forced into some really lousy schooling for 12 years at extortion level fees, all done compulsorily. Including having to sell some School Fete tickets to oneself (WT_). The advanced type people always vote yes on compulsory education type of ideas so it is just only that they are now made to accept the new education that the possible minister is advocating.

I personally consider only Maths+Science+Dharmashastras+PT+Hindi/Sanskrit/Vernaculars+Music (delivered in old marking system), as education fit enough for my kids. Things like SST+History+Civics+SUPW+English+Dramatics+Debates (delivered on a CCE backbone) are only a conspiracy, to rob me of my money, overburden my kid and turn them into WKKs - at least that is how I feel. I would not at all mind having my son into the compulsory education of my kind and then send off into the Himalayas to dig trenches/tunnels for an year (daughter is different :P). If I can be forced into a system then so can others be forced into one. They can rationalize it all, the way I am forced to do :D.

The options that you suggest should either not be there or should be there to the maximum extent. Not a mere after thought whenever the city dwellers feel like their kids will be have to do some hard work. They don't want it, let them have their wards call in sick (with medical certificate purchased from open market).

Universities (non engineering non medicine) seek 'best of 4' for admissions, then why not have only 4 subjects of any combination. The certifications require a course of study that is invariably schooling-blind for example you can take up CA so long as you can pass their foundation exam. Everybody equal there with full freedom of pursuit. Even the Engineering and Medicine requires only PCM/PCB marking+entrance exams. - at least they used to earlier. Equal again and minimal.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby svinayak » 18 Apr 2014 19:23

RajeshA wrote:There is a concerted effort by the pseudo-secular "Sepoys" to paint Hindutva as being "anti-West". These sepoys include Indian "scholars" and professors ensconced in think-tanks and universities in the UK and US. They will use anything to prove that Hindutva is "anti-West", such as Rajiv Malhotra ji's writings, etc.

Agnimitra ji,

I liked very much your concise definition of Hindutva that it is not anti-West or anti-XYZ, but is foremost a anti-anti-Bharat ideology!

It is a fight-back of Native Traditions against Imperialist Predatory Ideology and Power-based Control Structures.

We will be seeing a lot of vitriol against Hindutva in Anglo-American press and the wider world media influenced by Western and Gulf controls. It is extremely important that they not be able to tarnish Hindutva.

So one would really need concise and logical ways to respond.


The image of India as a secular India was a transformation they did over 30 years with the help of Indian leftist and Indian marxist. The attempt was made to remove Indian traditions from the education, media and the political sphere. This is still going on. The secular in the Indian media denotes this attempt.
This is the greatest psy ops ever done on any nation with a large population. This is similar to communist revolution in China.

Now the resurgence of India and its Indian traditions is going to wipe out all the things they have done.

But the most important to watch is what the west supports in its relations with India. US has been changing its support based on the govt in India. But the EJ and conservatives made campaign againstt BJP NDA govt and it was in sync with Indian media at that time.

In 2004 election we saw the western media again against BJP/Hindutva in sync with Indian media. This cooperation between the western media and Indian media is very interesting. The anti Hindutva stance and support to secular is thinking that it is support to EJ/C is fascinating.

In 2009 the western media had similar stance and even question why should there be a BJP party.
Also the media showed it face against Hinduism as if party politics determines religion.

In 2014 the Indian media is trying to now connect Hindutva as anti-west.

False images are being built and they are running out of Ideas.
Now this image is to make the new govt looking for confrontation on trade and other matters with the west. Indian leftist want to create negative image of Hindutva and BJP by conneting with negative image of confrontation, anti-west, anti-neighbor, anti-muslim, anti-outsiders, anti-<> etc.

This political movements are being used to change the society inside India and do social engineering. Only in India they can do it since Indian elite is helping them do it.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 22 Apr 2014 00:20

This report was posted last year, but posting it again due to possible change of governmental policy and cultural currents in the nation...

Gandhi ji dreamed of a #CommonScript across India.

July 2013 - IIT prof writes one script to unify 22 languages


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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Philip » 23 Apr 2014 08:35

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 75522.html
What the British really feared.Indian troops mutinying.After the first war of Independence launched by the sepoys,the nightmare that never allowed the British to have good night's sleep was the fear of Indian troops upon whom they depended to do their dirty work around the world,mutinying.It was Netaji and the INA which was the final straw that saw the British decide to abandon India,and leave a cancer,Kashmir to be a fratricidal war between India and Pakistan after they dismembered the India of millennia.Gandhiji they could simply lock up along with the Congress leaders and other freedom fighters,
and anyway,Gandhiji proved that he was once a loyal lackey of the empire in his own word quoted below!

But Netaji? He was simply too hot to handle,a true revolutionary and patriot.His disappearance still remains a mystery.One day the truth will out,that perhaps the British and their allies decided that a Netaji leading India post-Independence would be massive trouble for their plans of global dominance and that they "arranged" for him to permanently leave the scene.

Here are details of a famous mutiny seldom recounted ,but very important mutiny by Indian troops which was the forerunner for the emergence of the INA and Netaji who launched a military campaign with Japanese allies to free India from British rule.

A History of the First World War in 100 moments: The mutiny that sent a ripple of fear through the Empire

A revolt by a regiment of Indian troops in Singapore was nearly disastrous for Britain


When war broke out, Mohandas Karamchand “Mahatma” Gandhi, who a few years later would galvanise India’s struggle for independence, had exhorted his fellow countrymen to fight on the Allied side. “We are, above all, British citizens of the Great British Empire,” he told them. “Fighting as the British are… in a righteous cause for the good and glory of human dignity and civilisation… our duty is clear: to do our best to support the British.”

Hundreds of thousands of Indians flocked to volunteer for service.
“We shall never get another chance to exalt the name of race, country… and to prove our loyalty to the government,” one of them wrote home to his brother from the Western Front. “We go singing as we march, and care nothing that we are going to die.” By the end of the war, more than one million Indians would have served overseas.

But others felt very differently. The Indian Mutiny of 1857, known in India as the First War of Independence, was only the most violent of hundreds of eruptions of resistance to British rule which punctuated the Empire’s history. And for Britain’s military strategists the Singapore Mutiny of February 1915 – six months after Britain’s declaration of war – was, in both its timing and its motivation, one of the most ominous.

The 5th Light Infantry Regiment of the Indian Army, which had been sent from Madras to Singapore in October 1914 to replace the Yorkshire Light Infantry (bound for the Western Front), was an entirely Muslim unit, made up of Rajputs and Pathans, two of the Indian ethnic groups which the British approvingly termed “martial races”. One month after its arrival it was announced that the regiment would be sent to Hong Kong. The same month, however, Turkey – responding to the prompting of its ally, Germany – declared jihad on Britain and its allies. Muslims around the world regarded the Sultan, Mehmed V, as their leader; and the Germans, aware that nearly half of the world’s 270 million Muslims lived under British, French or Russian rule, calculated that if they could foment rebellion among the Allies’ Muslim subjects, this huge fifth column could be devastating.

The Singapore Mutiny was an early sign that this strategy might bear fruit. As the day of embarkation approached, the rumour took hold among the sepoys that their actual destination was not Hong Kong but Turkey, where they would be thrown into battle against Turkish Muslims. At 3.30pm on 15 February, they mutinied, killing British officers who tried to restore order, seizing ammunition and exhorting German prisoners to join them.

With most of the Singapore Volunteer Corps on leave because of the Chinese New Year holiday, Singapore was practically defenceless. The mutineers surged through civilian areas, killing Europeans and locals at random, and laid siege to the bungalow of the regiment’s commanding officer.

Responding to British pleas for help, French, Russian and Japanese warships docked in Singapore on 17 February and their marines fought a fierce battle with the rebels. Many of the mutineers died, many surrendered, and the remainder fled into the jungle. By 22 February the mutiny was over.

Forty-seven mutineers were later executed by firing squad; 73 more were given long prison sentences. But no amount of retribution could mask the weakness that the mutiny had exposed. Indians hostile to the Empire began cultivating friendships with the Japanese, laying long-term plots for the overthrow of British rule. When war returned with the Japanese invasion in 1942, the Battle of Singapore culminated in the largest surrender of British-led troops in history.


I salute all those gallant "mutineers",true patriots whose memory shall never fade in our hearts.

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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 25 Apr 2014 01:42

X-post from Sanskrit nukkad:

Sheldon Pollock: Crisis in the Classics

How neglect of Sanskrit and derogation of Prakrits in India is creating a crisis for India's classical heritage and substrate of its pan-India civilization...
At the time of independence in 1947, India was home to scholars
whose historical and philological expertise made them the peer of any
in the world. They were the heirs of the longest continuous multicultural
literary tradition in the world, and produced editions and literary
and historical studies of texts in Apabhramsha, Assamese, Bangla,
Brajbhasha, Gujarati, Kannada, Malayalam, Marathi, Oriya, Persian,
Prakrit, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu—the list could go on because the
list of Indian languages goes on—that are still used today. Two generations
later their works have not been replaced not because they are
irreplaceable—it is in the nature of scholarship that later knowledge
should supersede earlier—but because there is no one capable of replacing
them. And this is a sign of what people should be worrying about:
if Indian education and scholarship continue along their current trajectory,
the number of citizens capable of reading and understanding the
texts and documents of the classical era—or precolonial or premodern
or pre-1800 era, all equivalent terms for my purposes here—will very
soon approach a statistical zero. India is about to become the only major
world culture whose literary patrimony, and indeed history, are in the
custodianship of scholars outside the country: in Berkeley, Chicago,
and New York; Oxford, Paris, and Vienna.
This would not be healthy
either for India or for the rest of the world that cares about India.

Agnimitra
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Agnimitra » 26 Apr 2014 06:19

X-post from NaMo thread in GDF:

Modi, media and the theology of apology
The Indian media narrative has followed the Christian script of the West on the apology-redemption track while Modi is responding from an Indian cultural lens.

Western Secularism is essentially Christianity without the Church. It grew out of the Protestant Reformation and then beyond, so its philosophical and behavioral parameters are defined by that historical experience. In the Indian context, that easily devolves into pseudo-secularism, because our historical experience is very different. Indic Secularism ought to be fashioned on different philosophical fundamentals and behavioral etiquette.

RajeshA
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby RajeshA » 29 Apr 2014 14:06

Those who made the Matrix triology, modeled the Matrix on Indian Secularism. Social Media is red pill. Guess who is Neo! :wink: [Tweet]

Added Later: It seems Rajiv Malhotra has been playing the role of Morpheus!

Prem
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Postby Prem » 29 Apr 2014 22:35

Feel The Pain


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