AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 13 Mar 2013 06:07

How long does the current Italian ambassador have here in India, if he were to complete his term? Does he have many years, a few months?
This whole episode appears to have been well gamed out. If there is a "strong" response from GoI, a reduction in diplomatic, intelligence, political and defense exchanges, it would certainly serve the GoI well in claiming Italian obduracy and stonewalling of the Augusta-Westland investigation. A slow down in relations of any sort with Italy for a year or two will be exactly what the doctor ordered for UPA2 to get back on its feet. Got to give it to the evil genius of UPA. IF only they used it towards productive ends....

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Mar 2013 06:53

RajeshA wrote:Chief Justice of India: Altamas Kabir

Pranav wrote:Delhi gangrape case not unique: CJI Altamas Kabir

No proof juvenile most violent, CJI Altamas Kabir says

Actually if you look at the first link the CJI is bringing up caste angle and seemingly insinuating that the outrage over the gang rape case is only because the caste of the victim.

I believe the first person to push such a theory was Arundhati Roy. At that time the identity of the victim was not known to the public so she was alleging caste discrimination against the accused.

Rajput · Post by **Rajput** » 13 Mar 2013 06:58

harbans wrote:Ajatshatru ji, what happened yesterday at Tihar was a major blunder. Specially so as far as this case goes. It happened early morning. . . . .

Please tell me you're joking. No, really, I'm serious here: in no rational universe do I see these two linked.

By your logic, from now on Europeans are free to smuggle drugs, kill, rape, etc. in India, because hey! That guy in Tihar died, so Europeans (read: white folks) do not belong in Indian prisons! They must be let go immediately!!!

Indian justice system got bumf***ed yesterday. This case, and the servile attitude of the Indian government, shows that India doesn't belong in the big leagues like China, Russia and even Brazil; but with nations like Haiti and Somalia.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 07:51

Did any Congress ministers from Kerala spoke on this?

What about Sashi Tharoor? Apparently he is an expert on international relations, right?

What about Mr. Klinn, PM in waiting, the saint AK Antony? He is from Kerala, a Christian, defense minister. If he is not the right person to talk about it, what is the point of his life?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Mar 2013 08:10

harbans wrote:
Apprehension of Harbans ji is quite right though Italians have not yet raised that ground but nothing prevents them from doing so and our poor records would not come to mour rescue nor their own pathetic record would help us as the accused are nopw not in our custody.

There is no point in shying away from the facts.
Of course Chanakyaa Ji i am correct here a 100 percent. .

One may apprehend such things Harbans ji and may be correct but there is no connection between the two incident. If Italy tries to base their argument on this incident it would cut a sorry figure. The moment Italy raises such issues , we would accuse them of trying to take advantage of a tragic incident which happens in all jails at one point of time or other including Italy .

23 Americans were tried in absentia by Italy and found them guilty but they could not bring them to italy to serve the sentence.

Likewise India could not get Quatrochhi extradited from several countries where he was found traveling. Bhopal Accused CEO fled India after SC granted Bail by a Secular Judge . He could not be extradited to India from US. That Judge went on to head the hospital/trust created from the funds deposited by UCC and only recently forced to resign . The current sikular judge would also get the same royal treatment.

The problem is not with Italy. They are merely trying to take advantage of the cracks in our armour. Kongis are the biggest weakness that India has . It does not hesitate to compromise on national interest. Sequence of events leading to this escape seems to have been facilitated by the same mafia. Kongis would not want them to be extradited for reasons/speculations mentioned here in this thread. I have seen that most of the time members are bang on target.

Unfortunately I can even say that India would give a befitting reply to Italians. We are too compromised. But this is certainly not the place to discuss Ram Singh.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Mar 2013 08:19

Sanku wrote:
chaanakya wrote: Apprehension of Harbans ji is quite right .
Chaanakya ji; unfortunately what harbans offered was a justification and not a apprehension, one he stuck to despite the incongruity being pointed out (which you agree) -- only much later did he climb down to trying to show that as apprehension.

Actually we should have waited for Italians to raise the issue. There may not be anything wrong in discussing the various possibilities and arguments that might be raised by Italians. But this incident can offer no basis for Italians to evade trial Italians have not raised it so far and I doubt that they would. But there could be no justification of reneging on an assurance by a Nation. International relations can not be conducted on that basis. But kongis lack the b@lls to conduct diplomacy. I was hering Abhisex and Chuko of jay pee cee fame. And I think this is all arranged by kongis making SPP and CeeJayEye as partner in misdeed.

We should try those marines in absentia and sentence them.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 08:57

Salmon Kurshid Uvacha..

"Sending the Italians home for Christmas and Elections is a collective decision of India"

Italian termite queen and it's India slave Termites

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 13 Mar 2013 09:27

bhai log,

Hum Italians ki muzammat karte hein.
Hum affidavit ki bhi muzammat karte hein.
CJI, EJs etc. ki bhi.

But for the future I had some concerns.

The proposition is - Italians justifying their stance of not sending back the accused, because we could not save a poor accused in another unrelated case.

My apprehension is - Cannot this logic get misused by some fundamentalist organisation in India, to harass some random Italian in anticipation of the crime that he may commit. And since Italians are mostly whites, does it not put to risk our International relations with say all whites and honorary whites.

My humble suggestion is - we should take the 'high moral ground', that of protecting the innocent white tourists from the clutches of fundamentalists in India by asking all Italians to stop coming to India. That way the fundamentalist organisations in India will get preempted in their misdeeds.

Or am I being Chunkian.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 13 Mar 2013 09:38

The CPM also wanted the Supreme Court to explain the rationale behind allowing the marines to travel to Italy to cast their vote in national elections.

BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar alleged that Italy's refusal to send back the two marines was an instance of "diplomatic collusion" between the UPA government and the government in Italy.

When I was younger, I used to think that the root cause of India's problem was its regional parties. But based on the remarks of CPM and other regional parties, it is clear that the UPA and more specifically, Congress I is the root cause of the problem. UPA has to go in the next election. Journalists should start preparing public opinions against these clowns.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2013 09:57

Nikhil T wrote:
RajeshA wrote:1) No country allows people who have killed their citizens to go and live in the Embassy! The possession of the criminal is something agencies fight over, and here we have Indian Government allowing the Marines to go live in their Embassy! Whoever came up with this has to answer this! This is NOT Normal! They are not to be treated as guests, but are detainees awaiting trial.

2) There is no question of giving bail to anybody whose guilt in killing Indians has already been settled, the only question remaining about the circumstances. Even the questions about circumstances are immaterial because Indian blood has been spilled and the Indian state would have to make them pay! If the Italians had snatched away an Indian kid's ice-cream even for that he would have to pay!

3) There is no question of letting culprits leave the country and go beyond the country's jurisdiction. Who came up with the corny idea that they needed to go home for Christmas? How the hell does it matter if it is Christmas, Diwali or Eid? These Marines are guilty of killing Indians! There is no question of showing even 0.0001 % deference to such wishes! This is not even a question of human rights?

4) There is no question of letting culprits leave the country for voting! I mean this is so funny one feels like crying! Is this a question of human rights? Who gives a damn about the rights they enjoy in Italy as Italian citizens. Here they were to be dealt with according to Indian Law! Where does it say that detainees have such rights?

5) Even if one thought that they ought to be allowed to vote, they could have done that in the Italian Embassy. In fact voting is allowed through Diplomatic missions. Thousands of Italians living abroad would have availed of that facility. Why could these Italian Marines not have done that in their Embassy?

The only right these Italian Marines had was that of diplomatic counsel, where somebody from the Italian Embassy could visit them in an Indian jail! Absolutely no more privileges are foreseen in international law!

All Indians who are responsible for providing these Italian Marines, butchers of Indians, any more rights than those foreseen in international treaties, e.g. anything over and above diplomatic counsel before and during trial, should be arrested, declared traitors and shot in the head, and it should not matter if they are leaders of ruling parties, India's foreign minister, Supreme Court judges, or anybody else!

Traitors need to be shot!

Excellent post.

All day, I've been having *wet dreams* of Op Geronimo type extraction of both the Marines from their rural Italian homes....BUT on more serious note - Let's get back from rhetoric of rabid retribution and focus more on factors that let the Italian go away with murder (literally). Let's also keep aside any possible quid-pro-quo with the choppers case, to examine facts.

1) It was the INC and GOI who WILLFULLY did not set up a Special Court as ordered by the SC to try the two marines. I talked to a family friend who is a High Court lawyer and he said that setting up a court is as easy as finding a spare room in Vigyan Bhawan in Delhi and nominating a judge in consultation with the CJI. He said there have been umpteen past precedents of doing this, so its inconceivable that the GoI could have a genuine reason for not moving its feet for ~50 days now (Jan 18 to March 10).

A second instance to nail GoI in its coffin is the Prisoner Exchange treaty with Italy. While we did sign the treaty before the Marines case, we DID NOT have to RATIFY it in Dec 2012. If GoI was really looking after Indian interests, why the hurry to ratify this treaty when there is a case of national pride involved?

Finally, if what other posters have said is true, that Italy allows postal votes - then isn't it GOI's lawyer or prosecutor's job to bring this fact to court? Isn't this Step number #1, when you put yourself in the GoI's lawyer's shoes? But again, a treachery.

2) Now, when Indians are ready to sell the nation (through special treatments, allowances for home visits and dragging feet on setting up courts), why blame the Italians for what they did? After all, if we don't respect our own SC's orders when asked to set up a court, why the hell would a rich, ex-colonial power care?

3) Finally, onto question of retribution. Any real retribution has to come from the GoI - economically, diplomatically etc. But here's the irony. It is the GoI who botched this case willfully. So why are we expecting any retribution on this?

This is typical INC tamasha. Everything is a game to stay in power. Everything.

The hidden hand of the vatican and kerala church also needs to be probed.

Their public position was that eyetalian xtians are more valuable than kerala xtians.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 13 Mar 2013 09:57

quipped a friend "encourage pakistani migration to Italy"...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 10:28

Anindya wrote:quipped a friend "encourage pakistani migration to Italy"...

Both being leading members of the Coffee Club, they should drink some coffee together!

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 13 Mar 2013 10:45

More tamasha in the offing - FIR against retired ACM Tyagi

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 Mar 2013 10:53

ManjaM wrote:How long does the current Italian ambassador have here in India, if he were to complete his term? Does he have many years, a few months?
This whole episode appears to have been well gamed out. If there is a "strong" response from GoI, a reduction in diplomatic, intelligence, political and defense exchanges, it would certainly serve the GoI well in claiming Italian obduracy and stonewalling of the Augusta-Westland investigation. A slow down in relations of any sort with Italy for a year or two will be exactly what the doctor ordered for UPA2 to get back on its feet. Got to give it to the evil genius of UPA. IF only they used it towards productive ends....

You have a good point. Post-event coverup was pre-planned and is being unfolded. Italians then need not issue visas to Indian journalists and other pesky pests and special interests investigation augusta-westland scams and other such Italian scams saying staff recalled as Italian response to expulsion of ambassador.

lakshmikanth wrote:The white murderers were let go the first time, and they were promptly returned, making mango admi believe that Italy stands by its words. The second time they wanted to "vote", the court had no trouble to let them go because they were returned before and EyeTaly stands by its words.

EyeTully according to the deal, said no way we are going to return the white murderers. Now everyone is happy. The empress can make her stand as follows: "Oh, GOI took Italy for its word, because they have returned them before." . The Marines are happy: "We are home and we murdered a few brown mofos". EyeTully is happy: "We rescued our white sons, from those savage brown people and their savage laws". Ofcourse, the least powerless of all (Indian Aam Admi) has been as usual made chh**tiyas in the game.

Nothing that is not obvious, nothing more to see here either, I guess. It is indeed a very hopeless (but sophisticated) Banana Empire (not republic).

You display very good tactical sense. First time they were released on personal bonds of 1 crore each as surety. A lot of reputations were on the line. So they had to return. Once they returned, the next time they were left (for voting) on flimsy grounds of Italian govts surety. So thereby no financial damage to any parties and thus the liability for not returning was also thus taken away. CJI is a congress tool and has wilfully colluded in whatever is/was party agenda.

This is typical of Indian apex political system and bureaucracy in that the laws have not been broken, they have simply been distorted and subverted with ease. This is how corruption takes place in this country with such proficient ease.

Just like all the bribery/scam accused of 2G, Commonwealth games, telecom scam are now out on bail. People's memory is short and all these characters have been bought back slowly into circulation.

You are now watching the master subversionists (aka Congress-INC) at their best.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 13 Mar 2013 10:58

I would like to understand if raising questions about CJI can cause problems to those owning the board or those living in India? You can accuse me of being a darpok, but I do not trust the current dispensation ruling India.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 11:02

Something seems to have gone wrong with Bahukutumbi Raman, how did he walk into the BRF camp?

More than the Italians, the government shamed India

The half-heartedness of the Indian government in prosecuting the Italian Marines is likely to be interpreted by detractors as an indicator of the influence exercised by Italy over the government's actions in this case, says B Raman.

An over-anxiety on the part of the Indian government to oblige their Italian counterparts on the issue of the two Italian Marines, who have been charged with killing two Kerala fishermen wrongly mistaking them for pirates on February 15, 2012, has created suspicions in public mind on the bonafides of the Manmohan Singh government. The Italian Marines were posted as sentries on board a private Italian tanker.

There was a delay in constituting the special court, which led the Supreme Court to observe as follows: "Why is the Centre dragging its feet over the matter? Nobody has initiated any consultation process till now."

The government did not vigorously oppose the applications on the ground that the Marines could exercise their postal ballot or vote in the Italian Embassy.

Nobody in Delhi appeared to have noticed this delay till the Italian foreign office informed the government on March 11 that the Marines would not return since the latter had no jurisdiction to try them.

The credibility of the Indian government in the eyes of its citizens has taken a beating as a result of the seeming over-anxiety of the government to oblige Italy instead of asserting on its right to have them tried before a special court as ordered by the Supreme Court.

Apart from the usual drama of diplomatic protests, the government has placed the country in a position of having very few options to uphold the country's self-respect and honour.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 13 Mar 2013 11:54

RamaY wrote:Did any Congress ministers from Kerala spoke on this?

Oh..nothing. But the usual gimmicks and sweet talks
Marines issue: Chandy seeks legal advise (Oomen Chandy who is the CM)
Shashi Tharoor and AK Antony are all maintaining strict radio silence. It looks like all this was part of a well written screen play (really can be sent for Oscars).

Ajatshatru wrote:From what I have read so far, these marines were staying at their embassy during the earlier trial

If I get it right the only time the Marines actually spent time in an Indian jail's lockup it was in 100% literate state. This was during the initial days of the trial. They were housed in the same cell which was used to lock up Balakrishna Pillai (a minister convicted of corruption). They also spent some time in a jail cell in Kochi as well. But then they were given bail, and could have even stayed in a hotel.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:25

As expected, the BJP view is finally filtering out through media, after suitable delay and on the last page

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/itali ... 130313.htm

Italian marines row: BJP accuses government of collusion

"The government is involved in this case, as without their involvement, nothing can be done. This matter should be taken very seriously," Naidu said.

"This issue of Italian marines is very shocking because this would not have been possible without the collusion of government. Granting bail to persons for four weeks just to take part in voting is questionable. We don't have any such system in India [ Images ] to give bail just to take part in voting. Earlier, they were given bail for Christiana vacations," he added. He said the BJP would raise the issue in both houses of Parliament on Wednesday.

BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy had earlier said that the Italian government's decision not to send back two of its marines has made both the ruling UPA and India look like a ''banana republic''. "It's a betrayal and a bluff by the Italian government. It is also a bluff to the highest court of land, which is the Supreme Court, which was generous enough to allow them (the marines) to go back to their land for the Italian elections," he added

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Mar 2013 12:35

Sachin wrote:
RamaY wrote:Did any Congress ministers from Kerala spoke on this?
Oh..nothing. But the usual gimmicks and sweet talks
Marines issue: Chandy seeks legal advise (Oomen Chandy who is the CM)
Shashi Tharoor and AK Antony are all maintaining strict radio silence. It looks like all this was part of a well written screen play (really can be sent for Oscars).

Ajatshatru wrote:From what I have read so far, these marines were staying at their embassy during the earlier trial
If I get it right the only time the Marines actually spent time in an Indian jail's lockup it was in 100% literate state. This was during the initial days of the trial. They were housed in the same cell which was used to lock up Balakrishna Pillai (a minister convicted of corruption). They also spent some time in a jail cell in Kochi as well. But then they were given bail, and could have even stayed in a hotel.

They stayed in a government guest house. From wiki ( The arrested Italian marines were first remanded to police custody in a CISF guest-house and thereafter to judicial custody at the Kochi Police Club)

We continue to be gora arse lickers.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:40

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/en ... 35016.html

Ensure Italian marines’ return: Modi to UPA govt

New Delhi: Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday asked the Congress-led UPA government to explain to the nation what actions it plans to take to ensure the return of the Italian marines to face trial in India.

Modi tweeted: “On the issue of Italian marines, nothing short of their return to India must be the acceptable outcome.”

Faced with severe criticism after Italy refused to send back two marines accused of killing Indian fishermen, the Congress-led UPA government may take a hard stand and expel Rome’s envoy in New Delhi, Daniele Mancini.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 13:55

Sanku wrote:
Ensure Italian marines’ return: Modi to UPA govt
New Delhi: Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday asked the Congress-led UPA government to explain to the nation what actions it plans to take to ensure the return of the Italian marines to face trial in India.

Modi tweeted: “On the issue of Italian marines, nothing short of their return to India must be the acceptable outcome.”

Faced with severe criticism after Italy refused to send back two marines accused of killing Indian fishermen, the Congress-led UPA government may take a hard stand and expel Rome’s envoy in New Delhi, Daniele Mancini.

This is no "hard stand". Let's not start using "hard stand" inflationary. "Hard stand" is when India declares that any Italian Navy ship passing through Indian Ocean would be blown to 72 pieces unless Italy returns the 2 Italian Marines!

"Sending back diplomats", "pushing dossiers" and "refusing to talk" is all wimpy talk! Nobody is interested in it!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 13:59

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 13 Mar 2013 14:01

This is what I wrote in Dec when the two marines left for their Christmas break
"These guys aren't going to return (see my post above), and with both the EU and the USA harbouring criminals sought by India, a reasonable response would be to downgrade or completely halt diplomatic relations with both Italy and the Vatican, given its role in this matter and the ongoing anti-nuclear protests. India gains nothing from having relations with these two who are joined at the hip."

I don't expect anything to be done, but it gives India a good opportunity to clear out a lot of the NGOs who have attched themselves to this matter at the behest of the Europeans and the Vatican.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 13 Mar 2013 14:20

kish wrote:
venug wrote:India to act to bring back Italian Marines: PM
This is the joke of this century. I never knew PM of India can crack jokes.

He probably said `Theek Hai ?' after that

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 13 Mar 2013 14:59

chetak wrote:They stayed in a government guest house.

Italian naval guards in Poojapura Central Jail

Subsequently when the case moved to Kerala HC, at Kochi they were housed in a Borstal school campus and then they were bailed out (but had to stay within Kochi Police Commissionarate limits).

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 15:18

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 0313.htm#3

This is enemy action, arrest Italy envoy: BJP

Earlier, raising the issue during Zero Hour, Leader of Opposition Arun Jaitley said the two marines "absconded" as a result of "deception and outright fraud", due to which India stands "deceived".

Noting that Italian laws did not require the Marines to be physically present to cast their votes, as they could have exercised their franchise even through mail, Jaitley said their act of approaching the Indian government for sending the Italian marines back to that country appears "pre-scripted".

Terming this as the "first such case of state-sponsored abduction and state-sponsored deception", he said, "When you deal with Romans, deal as Romans do."

Jaitley said he seriously doubted whether the Italian ambassador, who had submitted before the Supreme Court in this matter, should continue to enjoy diplomatic privileges.

Alluding to Bofors scam accused Ottavio Quattrocchi, without naming him, and the recent AgustaWestland deal in which the Italian government refused to accept India's request for more information, he said, "It is time for the government of India to act, when they have broken every norm".

"The time has come since we have seen such a thing happening for the third consecutive time. You should forget diplomatic niceties, this should be treated as enemy action. The government of India must respond," he said.

All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam leader V Maitreyan said the government of India should arrest the Italian ambassador.

CPI-M leader P Rajeeve also wanted to know whether the government was ready to take action against the Italian ambassador.

PM has assured that there can be comprehensive dialogue with opposition on this issue.

More Italian than Italians running the show in India and their cronies running amok everywhere.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 16:28

Sanku wrote:This is enemy action, arrest Italy envoy: BJP

The Italian Envoy acts at the instance of Italy. If this is enemy action, then war needs to be declared directly against Italy.

Why hold the Italian Ambassador personally responsible?

So it is okay the opposition is taking this one step at a time, and giving the regime a long rope, but in the end it is all about treason by the leadership of this regime, treason against India and our Justice.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 16:55

RajeshA wrote:
harbans wrote:If people had struck to this simple advice, and not some clever by half chanakya niti we would not have faced what we are facing today.

Tell me which "Chanakyan Niti" assured that we let the Italian Marines go?

Tell me which "Dharmic" moral values you have been singing about would have prevented that?

Also tell me, which simple advice of yours (i.e. of concrete action) did India not abide by?

harbans wrote:I have already answered all 3 of your questions. So it's useless to phrase them again and again. I did not rubbish Chanakya. I clearly said i rubbish those that think the judgement should be passed before the due process. That is your shame Rajesh. You said that not me. Anyways i think i have wasted quite some time on you. Possibly you are not worth that effort. Good day.

You have answered none of those questions.

How could one have prevented the Italian Marines absconding to Italy by following your advice?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 13 Mar 2013 17:12

Sanku wrote: PM has assured that there can be comprehensive dialogue with opposition on this issue.

More Italian than Italians running the show in India and their cronies running amok everywhere.

Yup including this forum.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 13 Mar 2013 17:20

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Sanku wrote: PM has assured that there can be comprehensive dialogue with opposition on this issue.

More Italian than Italians running the show in India and their cronies running amok everywhere.
Yup including this forum.

Waiting for the next STFU...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 17:42

India Warns Italy on Marines: WSJ

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday said that there will be "consequences" if Rome does not return two marines accused of killing two Indian fishermen to face trial in India.

MMS is now going to cut all the forests of the world and process them into dossiers and postage stamps, and then it will be an all out attack!

Or is it going to be ...

MMS: Chalo Jaao, Quutti! Nahin Bolta Main Tumse!
Italy: Parli un poco piu forte. No te posso sentire!

The open question is only how much MMS knew of this treason by Sonia Gandhi and people in his government.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 17:53

harbans wrote:
how can a judgment be passed in India without due process? If a court has to pass judgment, there would of course be a due process.
But then this is what you demand:

There should be only one judgment that the courts should pass on those Italians - Guilty! And the sentence should be capital punishment for those Italians - death by hanging!
So without asking for the due process you want them hanged, you have clearly already decided in the above have you not. You have already negated the fundamental principle under which the constitutional justice system works.

Can't you read? Didn't I say the court should pass a judgment! Did I say anywhere we should lynch the two Italians without a court process?

Yes, I am certain that the two Italian Marines killed the Indian fishermen, and for that the punishment should be death! So what is wrong in having an opinion on their guilt in the crime and on the punishment for such a crime?

That doesn't mean there wouldn't be due process in the court!

Everything is written in black and white and still you fail to grasp!

harbans wrote: If it's just the random hyper nationalist wish list then why not also accept the equation with those hyper nationalist Paki yahoos that burn houses etc and rage on the streets demanding death at the drop of the hat.

As for time, yes i don't have the whole day sitting and making random wishlists and hyperventilating at the drop of a hat. But anyways Good day.

Well you have the right to consider the death of two Indian fishermen as "drop of the hat"!

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 13 Mar 2013 18:11

Many here insist belonging to the 'My friend Strobe', terrorist escorting camp right. It's also the fav party that gave Musharat a platform to speak in Agra and embarrass the hosts. I am not an INC person, that is just a childlike straw man created for lack of substance. But then we do establish that escorting criminals outside is not the prerogative of one party..So does that not make some here more Paki than the Paki?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 13 Mar 2013 18:13

If this is enemy action, then war needs to be declared directly against Italy.

This passes of as rational analysis here..

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 18:17

harbans wrote:Many here insist belonging to the 'My friend Strobe', terrorist escorting camp right. It's also the fav party that gave Musharat a platform to speak in Agra and embarrass the hosts. I am not an INC person, that is just a childlike straw man created for lack of substance. But then we do establish that escorting criminals outside is not the prerogative of one party..So does that not make some here more Paki than the Paki?

Yawn! Here we go with Kandahar again!

You're making a stupid assumption! That for some reason Bharatiyas all have to follow the lead of some BJP riff-raff, and can't have an opinion of their own! That Bharatiyas need to answer for everything some BJP twit did in place X at time Y!

Where did this "common sense" come from?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 18:19

harbans wrote:
If this is enemy action, then war needs to be declared directly against Italy.
This passes of as rational analysis here..

This passes off as grasp of language!

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 13 Mar 2013 18:57

What does Kandahar or Ram Singh's death have to do with this?

Are there no prison deaths of a suspicious nature in Italy or the USA or the rest of the West?

It's well known that prisoners convicted of rape and child sexual abuse tend to be special targets of other prisoners on the inside all over the world.

Second Kandahar as bad as it was happened in a situation with many hostages involved, hardly compares with what happened here.

Can we stick to discussing this case instead of bringing up Kandahar, Ram Singh etc.

So the conclusion of certain people is that India has to achieve some abstract moral perfection before we can take any action against foreigners accused of criminal offenses...

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 13 Mar 2013 20:14

For Harbans ji everything is connected, it's just a matter of 6 degrees of separation no?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Mar 2013 20:28

I heard MMS speaking in parliament today. I had to turn up the volume and use the grahic equalizer to augment the bass tones and suppress the squeaky ones. He said: "This is totally unacceptable. We will take strict action"

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 20:37

Italy: General Election 24-25 February 2013

03 January 2013
GENERAL ELECTION 24-25 FEBRUARY 2013

With Presidential Decree no. 226 of 22 December 2012, published in Official Journal no. 229 of 24 December 2012, the elections for the renewal of the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate of the Republic were called. The election will take place in Italy on 24 and 25 February 2012.

Voters living abroad and certain specific categories of Italian nationals temporarily abroad for reasons of service or international missions can vote by post in these elections.

POSTAL VOTING FOR ITALIAN CITIZENS LIVING ABROAD

Voting is a right enshrined in the Italian Constitution. Under Law 459 of 27 December 2001, Italian citizens living abroad and enrolled in the voting register of the foreign constituency are entitled to vote by post. To this end, we recommend that citizens check their details, including their address, at their consulate, and make any amendments that may be necessary.
Alternatively, citizens living abroad may opt to vote in Italy, in their own municipality (village, town or city). To do so, they must inform their consulate in writing of their choice (option), within the timescale envisaged by law. The choice (option) to vote in Italy applies only for one election.

Italian citizens wishing to vote in Italy must inform their consulate in writing. The notification MUST REACH THE CONSULATE no later than 3 JANUARY 2013 (10th day following the day the election was called).

The notification may be written on plain paper [i.e. without revenue stamps] and – to be valid – must contain the voter’s first name, surname, date and place of birth, place of residence and signature. To submit their notification, voters may also use the form available from consulates, “patronati”, associations, or COMITES. The form can also be downloaded from the Foreign Ministry’s website (http://www.esteri.it) or from the website of the voter’s consulate.

If the declaration is not delivered in person, it must be accompanied by a copy of the declarer’s identity document.

As envisaged by law, it is the voter’s responsibility to ensure and check that the notification of their option, if sent by post, reaches their consulate in good time.

Voters who have chosen to vote in Italy in the forthcoming General Election will receive from their municipal council a card-notification to vote – in polling stations in Italy – for the candidates in the national constituencies, and not the candidates of the Foreign Constituency.

For voters who decide to return to Italy to vote, the law does not envisage any type of reimbursement of travelling expenses. Reduced fares are, however, envisaged for travel within Italy.

Voters may revoke their decision to vote in Italy. To do so they must inform their consulate in writing – sending the notification by post or delivering it in person – under the same conditions and within the same timescale as envisaged for exercising the option, i.e. no later than 3 JANUARY 2013.

Voters living abroad and registered with the Register of Italians Living Abroad (Anagrafe degli italiani residenti all'estero – AIRE) who have not exercised the option to vote in Italy will receive their voting pack, from their consulate, at their home address. The pack contains their ballot paper and instructions on how to exercise their vote. Voters should follow the instructions carefully and make sure they send their pre-stamped envelope – containing the anonymised enveloped which in turn contains their completed ballot paper – to their Consulate by the date indicated.

Any voter who does not receive their voting pack by 10 February 2013 should go in person to their Consulate to check on their voting status. If their name is already included in the list of voters held by the Consulate, they can obtain a duplicate voting pack. If their name is not included in the list, they can ask the Consulate to begin the procedure to add their name to the list of voters.

Any requests for clarification of the provisions of the law governing voting abroad should be sent to politiche2013@esteri.it
Information concerning individual voters’ position on the Register of Italians Living Abroad, or concerning their voting position, may only be provided by their consulates.

Information on postal voting for Italian nationals temporarily abroad for reasons of service or international missions (in Italian only)