Whither Indian Diplomacy?

[Philip]

So Sarabjit Singh was eventually betrayed by his own govt.Dr. Singh,Sonia,Salman-the-Cursed FM can now raise a toast to their combined treachery .How demeaning for an Indian PM to "plead" with Pak on Sarabjit's behalf! Never in India's history have we had such an impotent,venal and corrupt regime and such an impotent and incompetent Foreign Ministry,that is the object of so much ridicule.We will shortly see Salman-the-Cursed fleeing to Beijing to "plead" with the Chinese to remove their tents?

Our great leaders are now in the running for Pak's top national awards.Salman is now eligible for the "Coward's Cross turd class".Dr.Singh,the "Shitara-e-Pak" and Soniaji the "Firang-Coward-e-Azam".Well done you great zeros of India (and Italy) ,your names will go down in history in infamy!

[RajeshA]

Philip ji,

the question is why is an Ashraf (or Semi-Ashraf) like Salman Khurshid been given the Foreign Minister job, especially as among Ashrafs there is zero identification with India, Indians or Indian interests!

It is like asking a goat to look after the flowers in the garden!

[Philip]

...and invite neighbouring "goats' and sundry animals,pigs,bandicoots,etc., to feast in one own's hime!

[shiv]

Let me make a prediction. Call me out on here if I am wrong. Sarabjit Singh's body will not be returned to India.

[Austin]

RIP Martyr Sarabjit ! You have done India proud.

I think after Sarabjit brutal murder in Pakistani Jail , its high time we rethink on our Spying operation in Pakistan , Its now certain that any Ground Spies or for that matter even innocent citizen caught in Pakistan would be jailed , beaten and treated mercilessly and perhaps even killed.

Considering GOI has shown little inclination to get our spies out from Pakistan and have just disowned them in past too ... and Pakistan equally unwilling to let them away. We need to just put Inidan spies on ground who have diplomatic immunity

If there are any spies in Pakistan we better buy out their freedom since Pakistan may not be willing to exchange spies as they would not care for its citizen.

The Sad Death of Sarabjit should let RAW/IB/MI take a hard look at how to conduct Special Ops inside pakistan , even if its means scaling back our deep cover operations in Pakistan and keep it limited to professional spies who have dilpomatic immunity.

[RajeshA]

RIP Martyr Sarabjit ! You have done India proud.

I think after Sarabjit brutal murder in Pakistani Jail , its high time we rethink on our Spying operation in Pakistan , Its now certain that any Ground Spies or for that matter even innocent citizen caught in Pakistan would be jailed , beaten and treated mercilessly and perhaps even killed.

Considering GOI has shown little inclination to get our spies out from Pakistan and have just disowned them in past too ... and Pakistan equally unwilling to let them away. We need to just put Inidan spies on ground who have diplomatic immunity

If there are any spies in Pakistan we better buy out their freedom since Pakistan may not be willing to exchange spies as they would not care for its citizen.

The Sad Death of Sarabjit should let RAW/IB/MI take a hard look at how to conduct Special Ops inside pakistan , even if its means scaling back our deep cover operations in Pakistan and keep it limited to professional spies who have dilpomatic immunity.

Austin ji,

this is nonsense! Sorry!

Also it is only Pakistani propaganda that Sarabjit was an Indian spy!

[Austin]

Austin ji,

this is nonsense! Sorry!

Also it is only Pakistani propaganda that Sarabjit was an Indian spy!

Its its not really about Sarabjit is a spy or not but about Safety of Indians in Pakistani Jail. If spies are caught who dont have diplomatic immunity they would perhaps be given a worst treatment.

So its better to scale all Special Ops inside pakistan that does not involve inidan who have diplomatic immunity , for the good of our own people .....we cant expect Pakistan to show mercy to spies or even ordinary indians but we can do our bit by not putting them in harms way.

I think they only people who would still be caught would be Indian Fisherman by Pakistani coast guard who cross in their terroritry or vice verse but in this case we still have enough Pakistani fishermen caught in our side to negotiate their handover to each other.

Added later:

BTW yesterday I saw Times Now Panel disscussion involving G Parthasathi who mentioend when he was Indian Commisioner in pakistan he saw sarabjits file and pushed his case along with other , he said he was routine and not specific to Sarabjit , From his discussion i got the impression that he was hinting that Sarabjit was indeed a spy for India.

[RajeshA]

BTW yesterday I saw Times Now Panel disscussion involving G Parthasathi who mentioend when he was Indian Commisioner in pakistan he saw sarabjits file and pushed his case along with other , he said he was routine and not specific to Sarabjit , From his discussion i got the impression that he was hinting that Sarabjit was indeed a spy for India.

There was a file on Sarabjit, because he was an Indian and had been apprehended by the Pakistanis, and not because he was a spy.

[RajeshA]

Its its not really about Sarabjit is a spy or not but about Safety of Indians in Pakistani Jail. If spies are caught who dont have diplomatic immunity they would perhaps be given a worst treatment.

So its better to scale all Special Ops inside pakistan that does not involve inidan who have diplomatic immunity , for the good of our own people .....we cant expect Pakistan to show mercy to spies or even ordinary indians but we can do our bit by not putting them in harms way.

I think they only people who would still be caught would be Indian Fisherman by Pakistani coast guard who cross in their terroritry or vice verse but in this case we still have enough Pakistani fishermen caught in our side to negotiate their handover to each other.

Nowhere do spies have it easy if caught red-handed. Their bad treatment is not something specific to Pakistan.

An Indian spy in Pakistan would not out himself as an Indian but try to act as a Pakistani. It is dangerous work and they know it.

That is not to say that Sarabjit was an Indian spy! It also does not mean that India should wind down our operations in Pakistan, IF we have any because of these considerations.

[Austin]

In most countries they have a mechanism to exchange spies if they are caught.

I very well understand that Spying is a dangerous task but operating in Pakistan for Indian spies is as good as hell and if caught should be considered as a case of gone for ever.

Indian government is not keen to get them back and just disown them atleast nothing officially said about them or acknowledged. Most people spy because they are poor and live around border and have not much a choice of they have to earn.

But for the good of our own citizen we should close this and rely only on people with Diplomatic Immunity let RAW/IB see how they can get the best within these constrains ....atleast if they are caught they would be left alive to come back to India.

[RajeshA]

But for the good of our own citizen we should close this and rely only on people with Diplomatic Immunity let RAW/IB see how they can get the best within these constrains ....at least if they are caught they would be left alive to come back to India.

Austin ji,

those with diplomatic immunity working in embassies and consulates have very little leeway, because they are always monitored. They have a role, but their work is limited.

India needs to have a huge intelligence network in Pakistan, and most of these intelligence assets may have to be Pakistanis themselves, but there would also be Indians.

What you are asking is for us throw away our weapons because they cause pain to humans! Intelligence gathering is a necessary tool and weapon.

Our border security have also been killed. Lately one of our jawans was decapitated. Should that mean that we pull back our border security forces as well!

Intelligence gathering is our first line of defense!

[kish]

Let me make a prediction. Call me out on here if I am wrong. Sarabjit Singh's body will not be returned to India.

Shiv ji,

IMO, paki plan was to make Sarabjit == Afzal Guru and to negotiate exchange of bodies. But their plan back fired. There is too much international media attention.

International media:
India outraged by death of convicted spy in Pakistani jail
Indians angry at convicted spy's death in Pakistan
Indian Prisoner Sarabjit Singh Dies in Pakistan
India demands justice over 'spy'
Convicted Indian spy dies from Pakistani jail blow

I sensed this prison attack and later deliberate medical negligence was to kill Sarabjit. So, I on my part tweeted @amnesty @unhrc and encouraged my friends to tweet on Sarabjit to these org' in vain.

According to some reports, pakis may have agreed to send Sarabjit's body.

Live: India tells Pak to speed up the process of handing over Sarabjit's body

[RajeshA]

Let me make a prediction. Call me out on here if I am wrong. Sarabjit Singh's body will not be returned to India.

Actually I had been thinking on these lines as well!

[Manish_Sharma]

Sarabjit was not involved at all in spying , the witness confesses to lying in court:

[CRamS]

Guys, first a BP watch. Please don't read BBC reports on Sarabjit. The equal equal might make you just explode. The insensitivity, the entertainment value they derive by making Paki barbarity look like a routine India TSP spat; makes them just that; colonial b@stards.

On this Salman Kurshid mofo, the other day I heard Meenakshi Rekhi on Arnab show saying that he wrote some book or article that exposes how "Indian" he really is. Does anybody knows of Salman Kurshid's past anti-India writing masquerading as usual as secularism etc.

Now coming to criticism of MMSJi & Co in handling Sarabjit, nothing better can be expected. But, I am not sure what he could have done. TSP wanted to get rid of Sarabjit, no doubt about it, especially after Afzal. This brutality for sure has raised the moral of the Kashmiri Muslim scum, and of course all the Paki barbarians arrayed against India, not to mention as I said earlier, the colonial racist madar*chods in the west who have an axe to grind against India. But it is MMSJi's behavior after such barbaric acts by TSP is what disgusts me. I mean, give it a few days, and MMSJi and Salman will come back with need for pee pee contact and crap like that.

[vinod]

What do you expect?

You have a weak PM controlled by madam who doesn't care anything about India other than her (italian)family and wealth.
Ministers so corrupt that there is so much dirt on them, they can be made to do anything.
A set of govt officers promoted to do the willing of these corrupt masters. The policies being set on how to prolong the corrupt rule and not act in the interests of India.


Now, in the eyes of the anti-india agents, this is best time to act. They can literally get away with "murder".
So, I expect before the UPA govt goes there will be lot more activities in this regard. I wouldn't be even surprised even if one of the events are made to look UPA strong, so that they can be elected again!

So, in conclusion, over 100 anti-india activities next few months, with one event that strongly demonstrates UPA as a wonderful India champion just in time for election!

Ah! What a state!!!!

[ramana]

The good news is Sarabjit Singh will get a State funeral in Punjab;

Sarabjit Singh's body handed over to Indian officials



MMS did say some kind words for the late Sri Sarabjit Singh.

CRS, I told many times TSP is now reduced to the level of a neighborhood bully whose whole intent is to hurt India. It doesn't care if it progresses or not but hurt India it must. So killing of Sarabjit Singh in jail should be seen from that angle as state sponsored killing.
The only thing India could do was to do tit for tat and arrest a high ranking ISI spy. But they are cowards and send low level gullible Indians to spy on Indians.

[Manish_Sharma]

On this Salman Kurshid mofo, the other day I heard Meenakshi Rekhi on Arnab show saying that he wrote some book or article that exposes how "Indian" he really is.

REALLY! She did that? Because I had written to her about this book by salman and we exchanged a few emails on that, she seemed very eager to know about it.
CRamS ji, I would be grateful if you can point the youtube link in case you know of this arnab show........

http://dharmanext.blogspot.in/2013/02/h ... -sins.html

Hindus and Sikhs paid for their 'sins' during 1984 riots - Salman Khurshid


Above: Screenshot from Salman Khurshid's book "At Home In India: A restatement of Indian Muslims"

Salman Khurshid states, "there was also a terrible satisfaction amongst Muslims, who had not completely forgotten the Partition’s unpleasant aftermath. Hindus and Sikhs were alike paying for their ‘sins’. They were paying for the blood they had drawn in 1947."

[Austin]

those with diplomatic immunity working in embassies and consulates have very little leeway, because they are always monitored. They have a role, but their work is limited.

I dont disagree that diplomats under cover are monitored and it is not unique to Pakistan but happens all over the world but the ability to gather quality intelligence is an art , that is what makes one intel better over the other.

India needs to have a huge intelligence network in Pakistan, and most of these intelligence assets may have to be Pakistanis themselves, but there would also be Indians.

We dont need huge intelligence network but quality intelligence network , having 10 asset who can give you good actionable intelligence is far better then employing 1000 people who gather no real useful intelligence

That is where I think we take hit , we lack quality intelligence on Pakistan and actionable one too is missing

What you are asking is for us throw away our weapons because they cause pain to humans! Intelligence gathering is a necessary tool and weapon.

Our border security have also been killed. Lately one of our jawans was decapitated. Should that mean that we pull back our border security forces as well!

Exactly Pakistani are worse than animals so expect brutality from them ... letting Indian die in pakistani jail and disown our own people caught spying is something we tend to do most often because most of these people are poor and work for money and disowing them is easy then fighting for them to get them back.

Intelligence gathering is our first line of defense!

Yes and getting quality intelligence is most important , Its no secret that only MI manages to get Quality and Actionable intelligence Pakistan , RAW/IB track record have been poor.

To me Sarabjit murder looks like a planned revenge Attack by ISI for Kasab and Afzal Guru with the clear intention to pass the message that we will hit you back , since Sarabjit was a high profile Indian in Pakistani Jail.

[vinod]

An obvious thought - the Pakistani's have already arrested the ones responsible for Sri Sarabjit's killers, Can't we take them out?

[chaanakya]

Let me make a prediction. Call me out on here if I am wrong. Sarabjit Singh's body will not be returned to India.

He is coming home. No doubt about that.

[shiv]

I feel sorry for Sarabjit Singh's family.

But not a lot has been done after 26/11.

Let me also post a name that will ring some bells in old timers' minds. Rupin Katiyal.

I can argue that 26/11 was Hindu terrorism or MMS weakness. What did India do about Rupin Katiyal?

The bottom line is that no matter what political dispensation we have action against Pakistan is not going to result merely from Pakistani provocations. We need a change of national mindset where Pakistutti actions have to smash through into the consciousness of enough Indians for them to be aroused into anger if their local MLA or MP is seen as supportive of Pakistan.

Our weak polity is definitely representative of lack of national anger at Pakistan from a population that is more concerned about onion prices and other local issues. I know enough Indians who will say "Why is the minister so concerned about one dead man in Pakistan. Why is he not talking about dying farmers/people dying of thirst. We are not getting water. We will be dead. Will the PM talk to us?"

It is true. This actually does happen in India and nations like Pakistan. western NGOs etc take full advantage of that.

Pakistani provocations have to reach even bigger heights and have to be seen and recognized by the home help/maid who comes to my house as a problem. Only then will India take any action because only then will the elected representatives be convinced that their voters want to see action against Pakistan.

[Prem]

[quote"Manish_Sharma"="CRamS"]
http://dharmanext.blogspot.in/2013/02/h ... -sins.html

Hindus and Sikhs paid for their 'sins' during 1984 riots - Salman Khurshid
Above: Screenshot from Salman Khurshid's book "At Home In India: A restatement of Indian Muslims"
Salman Khurshid states, "there was also a terrible satisfaction amongst Muslims, who had not completely forgotten the Partition’s unpleasant aftermath. Hindus and Sikhs were alike paying for their ‘sins’. They were paying for the blood they had drawn in 1947."

Salmon's remark a good reward for GV Dhimmis. This is how PSers see majority Indian sons of soil. Salman is just echoing the prevalent truth among our leaders. And these BDY wanted religion based Quota in Armed forces. Salman is Foreigner's Minister appointed to India for watching over their subjects. The stench coming from the dead bodies of CDI=Congi Dhongi Indians now becoming unbearable.

[Philip]

Shiv,there is more to the issue.There are vested interests in both India and Pak who want the current situ to remain.There are political,economic and financial benefits to be garnered from the so-called "backdoor channel" byzantine goings on,that have brought neither peace nor at least a cold war between India and Pak. We have seen that in Afghanistan,vast amounts of money has changed hands ,money that was given to the Afghan regime by Uncle Sam.Uncle Sam has for a very long time been advocating openly and behind the scenes,"a peace in our time" with Pak,for its own selfish interests in the region,where Pak does its dirty work as its favoured "rent-boy".We have the equivalent of Neville Chamberlain in the persona of Dr.Maun Mohan Singh,as the fascist Paki pigs rape India time and time again.Every court must have its clown,therefore can anyone expect anything tough coming out of any orifice of Salman-the-Cursed? He has been specifically chosen by our Quisling Singh and Roman empress to send a clear message to Pak that India will never go to war or resort to military counters to Paki terror.This is because the Congress is desperate that it will lose its votebank amongst the minority community if it is tough on Pak. The GOI/UPA is also apologetic and ultra-sensitive to Chinese aggression for fear of losing the Left vote!

Therefore,Indian diplomutts and their myopia has resulted in what is happening today,the proxy war by Pak and the creeping invasion by China,which goes on unabated and without fear.The greater enemy lies not in Islamabad,Pindi or Beijing,but right here in our country,in our capital,at Race Course Rd. and Janpath.

[RajeshA]

Cross-posting from "Hero Sarabjit Singh" Thread

I think it is difficult for us to contemplate all that Sarabjit went through. Imprisoned in prison full of mad dogs and madder jailers. We don't know how he was humiliated day in and day out! We don't know whether he was fed well or at all. We don't know whether he used to be beaten day in and day out! We don't know what he went through when the mad dogs fell upon him!

He faced all of that - Alone! His countrymen were not with him! His government was not with him!

At any time, all we needed to do was to capture some influential Paki and exchange him for Sarabjit. We did not do it! All we had to do was to start bombarding the hell out of Pakistan positions on the LoC until they had returned Sarabjit. We did not do it! All we had to do was to capture some Pakistani Naval Ship, saying it intruded into Indian waters, and exchange it for Sarabjit. We did not do it!

With Pakis there is only one way one can negotiate! You cut off Paki's prick and then negotiate what he needs to do so as to get it back in time! Maybe there is a chance one can sew it back on!

From TOI live blog:

Live Blog: Pak activist Burney demanded Rs 25 crore for Sarabjit's release, sister says
Sarabjit's sister Dalbir Kaur said that if she had paid Rs 25 crore to Pak activist Ansar Burney, Sarabjit would have returned to India.

Instead of giving Burney 25 crores Rupees, all one needed to do was to cut off his prick and offer it back to him for a price - the return of Sarabjit!

Sarabjit,
Rest in Peace! We failed you!

[pentaiah]

Rupin Katyal honeymoon couple from Khatmandu

Saurab Kalia

SqLdr Ahuja



now watch this trend

PRC occupies Ladakh territory

TV Pundits: Oh this has been happening for a longtime nothing new

TSP slits throats of our Jawans

TV pundits: Oh well both sides have been doing it for a while

Terrorists are attacking citizens

TV pundits : Oh well Hindu terrorism is on the rise

Navy Scandal
Ex IAF Chief corrupt
EX IA chief evicted by Saint Antony
but cant evict the enemy
actually he is away on vacation not a statement from him

MOD says cant fight with PRC as westland copters not procured

DRDO discussing is Trishul better or Nirbhay or Brahmos

All agree that Himalays are abode to Shiv ji, hence Trishul is logical
so lets design it

Italian marines kill our civilians in our territory
not in Italy
we negotiatetheir arrest for a crime
Gabbar singh

Jo dhar gaya woh margaya

Makkan Singh

Jo bhag gaya woh batch gaya,

PC should be DM say some Cong
because he just like that evicted Baba Ramdev
Chinese is like eating a cake for him says fortune cookie

[ramana]

Indian Express and many other news outlets

GOI plane lands in Amritsar with Sarbijit Singh's body

"Home they brought the warrior dead"

[ramana]

We need to keep in mind who said what so they don't retract. Looks like INC is taking big hit and is rushing Rahulbaba to his village.

Firstpost:

From Dalbir Kaur to Cursed:Who said what

From Dalbir to Khurshid, who said what on Sarabjit Singh’s death
by May 2, 2013


Indian prisoner in Pakistan Sarabjit Singh died early on Thursday morning in Pakistan's Jinnah Hospital where he was admitted after he was brutally assaulted by fellow prisoners on 26 April.

Sarabjit had slipped into a coma, and breathed his last this morning. India woke up to the news that has certainly stirred the hornet's nest, with the BJP demanding strict action by the government and the prime minister gravely condemning the incident.

PTIHere are some reactions:

Sarabjit Singh's sister Dalbir Kaur: God knows how many people tortured Sarabjit. Whether we are BJP or Congress we have to support Shinde ji and Manmohan ji. Earlier Pakistan stabbed Vajpayee's back and today they have stabbed Manmohan Singh. Pakistani activist Ansar Burney cheated us. Had I paid Rs 25 crore to Burney, Sarabjit would have returned to India.

Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde: We are speaking to Pakistan authorities to send Sarabjit's body as soon as possible. The family can conduct last rites where they please. We requested Pakistan to pardon Sarabjit till the last moment. We had told Pakistan that his was a case of mistaken identity.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh: The criminals responsible for the barbaric and murderous attack on Sarabjit Singh must be brought to justice. I regret that Pakistan did not heed pleas of India and Sarabjit's family for taking a humanitarian view in this case. The government will make arrangements to bring home remains of Sarabjit and conduct his last rites. May his soul be granted the peace that he could not enjoy in life. The nation shares his family's profound grief with them.

{He sounds like Obama!}

Minister of Externel Affairs Salman Khurshid: We are extremely distressed. Details of what has happened we would like to share with Parliament. Sustainable and long lasting relationship between two countries has to be between people. That relation between the two countries has been hurt by what has happened today. My heart goes out to the family and I pray God gives them strength.

Union Minister of State Manish Tewari: An Indian citizen has been murdered in cold blood in the custody of the Pakistani state. The Pakistani establishment must account for it. Our hearts and minds are with the family. BJP wants to politicise every issue. Even in a moment of grief the only thing these people can think about is politics.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi: Both, the Government of India & Government of Pakistan have misled people on Sarabjit Singh issue. The truth on this issue must come out. Sarabjit Singh's demise is very sad. May his soul rest in peace. May God give strength to his family to bear this loss.

BJP leader Syed Shahnawaz Hussain: Sarabjit Singh's death has unmasked the Pakistani government. Sarabjit was India's son and he should be declared a martyr. The incident has soured Indo-Pak ties.

BJP spokesperson Ravi Shankar Prasad: This is a cold blooded murder. I am very pained about the gross indifference of the government of India.

Leader of Opposition Sushma Swaraj: It is a cold blooded murder. This is not the way civilized nations behave.

Aam Aadmi Party leader Arvind Kejriwal: Sarabjit dies. Leaves behind many questions.

Sarabjit Singh's lawyer Awais Sheikh: One can never expect in a country in a civilised world that a prisoner could be brutally murdered like this. I have been associated with Sarabjit for the last 4 years. And I can tell you what a nice man he was. I informed the jail authorities that he was under threat, but still they failed to protect him. I blame jail authorities for his death. This happened because of their negligence.

Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal: Government of India too dithered and dilly-dallied in reacting to the attack on him (Sarabjit). Was enough done to save him? Steps by government of India to secure his release earlier were weak and totally inadequate.

Sarabjit's family friend Raj Kumar Verka: The Pakistan government was doing drama by putting Sarabjit on ventilator. Pakistan fooled his family. Pakistan did not allow family to meet Sarabjit because they did not want them to realise that he is dead.

Add to the TSP beheading Indian soldiers this puts a nail in the coffin of MMS plans to revive Shameless sellout.

[Austin]

If 25 cr is what that guy needed to cut the deal then we should have gone for it ....its a small price to pay the kind of money an MLC in Mumbai makes in 5 years.

We still have many prisoners in Pakistan jail since Pakistan is a corrupt society if money can buy them out lets pay and get our people back , if quid pro quo does does not work. Paying 1000-2000 cr to get our men is a small price .....most top politician would have many times over that money in some secret bank.

Ofcourse in front of camera they can always say they were left for good will gesture for improving ties yada yada.

I am afraid Sarabjit wont be the last we would hear.

[Prem Kumar]

Pakistani provocations have to reach even bigger heights and have to be seen and recognized by the home help/maid who comes to my house as a problem. Only then will India take any action because only then will the elected representatives be convinced that their voters want to see action against Pakistan.

Shiv: while I dont disagree, the truth is also that the media is to be blamed for being a handmaiden for the Congress, Commies, Pakis and sundry. The media gets to decide the narrative. They get to define what is brought into public awareness, to what degree and for how long.

If the media pounds the Sarabjit issue or 26/11 or Saurabh Kalia repeatedly, they can quite easily shape public opinion. The mainstream media will never do it. The only hope is social media. We need Twitter in Hindi, Tamil etc

[shiv]

Shiv: while I dont disagree, the truth is also that the media is to be blamed for being a handmaiden for the Congress, Commies, Pakis and sundry. The media gets to decide the narrative. They get to define what is brought into public awareness, to what degree and for how long.

The one second attention span of the media in India has actually been mentioned by Naipaul in one of his early books.

They recall nothing from the past and learn no lessons.

Even Times Now - that seems to be hollering the loudest about Sarabjit has forgotten that the channel is saying and doing the same things that they did after 9-11, Kargil, German Bakery, you name it, its the same things.

They say "Is it time to get tough with Pakistan?" and they invite some asshole from Pakistan to fart in my living room.

Surely the media should be able answer the question "Is it time to get tough with Pakistan?"

They have been asking that question for over a decade.

[Prem]

If 25 cr is what that guy needed to cut the deal then we should have gone for it ....its a small price to pay the kind of money an MLC in Mumbai makes in 5 years.We still have many prisoners in Pakistan jail since Pakistan is a corrupt society if money can buy them out lets pay and get our people back , if quid pro quo does does not work. Paying 1000-2000 cr to get our men is a small price .....most top politician would have many times over that money in some secret bank.
Ofcourse in front of camera they can always say they were left for good will gesture for improving ties yada yada.I am afraid Sarabjit wont be the last we would hear.

GOI wrote big check when Poaqstan was under water few years ago. Hardeep Puri delivered that to Poku Mottu in Nyc. They should have asked Sarbjit and others in exchange for this money.

[Philip]

It looks like the Cursed is going to eat dim-sum after all,as the Chinkos have confirmed his visit.He must remember that the road to Beijing runs through Indian territory and in this particular moment in history through Ladakh.A visit to Ladakh either by him or the Army Chief,before his trip might appear to be symbolic ,but it would send a message to the SEYFM (slit-eyed-yellow-faced-monkeys) of Zhongnanhai,who are in a bullfrog mood right now,croaking in their little well.

[RamaY]

Let me make a prediction. Call me out on here if I am wrong. Sarabjit Singh's body will not be returned to India.

You are wrong sir!

[RamaY]

Pakistani provocations have to reach even bigger heights and have to be seen and recognized by the home help/maid who comes to my house as a problem. Only then will India take any action because only then will the elected representatives be convinced that their voters want to see action against Pakistan.

+108.

I hope Pakis send a stray nuke on to Delhi and wake up Bharat from its slumber.

[Philip]

Here is a superb report on the malaise,nay,"pox" that afflicts the FM under the UPA.

http://newindianexpress.com/nation/UPA- ... 576855.ece

UPA sweats over foreign policy

By Santwana Bhattacharya & Devirupa Mitra - NEW DELHI

06th May 2013 08:16 AM

Foreign policy is a battle of perception and India isn’t on a winning streak.

After the Chinese occupation of parts of Depsang valley on April 15 followed by Sarabjit Singh’s murder in a Pakistani jail, questions are being raised on who is running Indian foreign policy.

Is it the Prime Minister, with his conciliatory attitude towards India’s belligerent neighbours?

According to reports, Sarabjit’s release was not even on the agenda of talks between Manmohan Singh and Pakistan president Asif Zardari last April, though an ailing Pakistani scientist Chisty was released by India on humanitarian grounds. Zardari had campaigned for his release while India kept mum on Sarabjit.

Does the dithering Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid -- whose China visit slated for May 9 is being met with China’s apparent indifference -- have a say in formulating Indian foreign policy?

Is it India’s ineffective foreign secretary Ranjan Mathai, who retires in June and has been unable to take decisions within his own ministry like appointing key envoys who takes the call on India’s international stance?

Or is it the National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, the advocate of a soft policy towards China and other neighbours who decided Indian foreign policy?

The divergent dynamics, or the lack of it, has brought Indian diplomacy to its lowest nadir since the Indo-China War in 1962.

Defence Minister A K Antony -- known for his peacenik image -- toed the PMO line on the Chinese intrusion by advocating diplomatic resolution.

However, the Army and the Foreign Ministry were at loggerheads over China and Pakistan.

Defence sources claimed that the Army had told the China Study Group headed by the NSA that, “the first 48 hours after the intrusion was detected were crucial”.

It would have been “easier to evict the Chinese camps in that period, but there was no green light from the top”. But the South Block repeated a single chant -- the Army should stand down and there should be no confrontation on the border.

Dither and Slither

The NSA-led Ministry of External Affairs is hawking peace even as Chinese soldiers are sitting within Indian orders and Indian soldiers were beheaded on the LoC. Manmohan Singh, desperately but ineffectually trying to save his image, is abstaining from opening any other front.

The US pressure to maintain military stability in the region has weakened a pliant India, which has been told to refrain from military action against an election-bound Pakistan. Even symbolic actions like suspending group visas and restricting business visits of Pakistani citizens are not being done in order to prevent Manmohan’s ill-fated peace process from failing.

On Wednesday, the Army chief briefed the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and given various options to remove the Chinese, including the use of military aggression. But he was vetoed. This paralysis is seriously worrying the Congress, which faces elections in 2014, having sensed the popular mood against the government after Sarabjit’s killing and the Chinese incursion.

South Block sources say that the abject political failure owes a lot to Menon’s ‘ivory tower’ style. He was India’s Foreign Secretary during the controversial Sharm el-Sheikh talks where India was humiliated by Pakistan. As the opposition BJP and even supporting partner Mulayam Singh opened fire on the UPA for its failure to counter Chinese aggression, or save the lives Sarabjit and Chamel Singh in Pakistan’s jails, the Congress’ war-team at Rakabganj Gurdwara Road had to step in.

It was not the government, but they who uploaded the UPA’s foreign policy initiatives on an unofficial Face-book page on the PM as a last ditch attempt to contain the damage. The dithering government, out of sync with the national outrage on China and Pakistan’s transgressions, and the political backlash they anticipate has not able to promptly cancel Khurshid’s proposed Beijing trip in face of the Chinese aggression.

Pakistan Quicksand

In certain quarters in Islamabad, the message has filtered through that New Delhi will not take any strong step, however big the provocation, as the talks -- lavish lunches to Pakistan Minister -- as per the US blueprint. The PMO directly handles Pakistan policy, thereby ensuring only pliant Foreign Ministers like S M Krishna handled India’s image abroad.

“On Pakistan, Menon is on the same page as Manmohan Singh. They are both inclined to give a degree of leeway to Islamabad, despite its various transgressions, and at the cost of underestimating an enraged public opinion,” informs a foreign policy wonk.

Dove in South Block

The PMO’s captaincy of Indian foreign policy has weakened the Foreign Minister’s authority and given extra muscle to the NSA. Described as “intellectually arrogant” by a South Block colleague.

Sources say that Ranjan Mathai has been so ineffectual that he has been able to appoint only one joint secretary in the MEA. He has chosen to keep quiet on both Sarabjit and the Chinese incursion. Meanwhile, being a China watcher is part of Menon’s family heritage -- his grandfather KPS Menon was the first Indian ambassador to China, so was his uncle. Menon himself has served thrice in Beijing -- and his imprint is writ large on India’s response, which was characterised by the government’s ally Mulayam Singh Yadav as the “biggest humiliation since 1962”.

...and another:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130505/c ... t-doctrine

Milquetoast Doctrine
Ashok Malik | 05th May 2013

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Salman Khurshid.
Salman Khurshid.

In its essence, the craft of politics is about winning space for manoeuvre. Sometimes the space for manoeuvre arises organically. For instance, a war-time leader who leads his country to a military victory has the political capital to then negotiate a lasting peace. Sometimes the space for manoeuvre is manufactured by artifice. If the finance minister wants to raise taxes by 10 per cent, he announces a hike of 15 per cent and then — following public protests — agrees to a concession.

These are crude examples but realistic ones, seen in everyday life across political cultures and democracies. Given this, it is worth analysing the response of the Indian government and, particularly, Salman Khurshid, the minister of external affairs, to the Chinese incursions in Ladakh. India was taken by surprise by the movement of Chinese troops 19 km into Indian territory — or territory in the control of India as per the Line of Actual Control (LoAC). As it assessed the situation, the UPA government had (or should have had) two motivations.

The first was to prevent an undue escalation and rush headlong into an armed conflict. The second was to assuage public opinion. It would stand to reason — any textbook political practitioner would recommend this — that Indian ministers would begin with making loud, angry noises. They would assure the people that the interests of India and its territory would be safeguarded and the Chinese would not be allowed to get away. There would be consequences, including cancellation of visits and the odd bilateral trade commission talks or perhaps even a cultural show, if China did not move back 19 km.

What would this achieve? It would calm public opinion to some degree and, much more important, win the government space and time to embark on a well-thought-out rather than impulsive course. Do recall that as foreign minister in 2008, Pranab Mukherjee was making harsh and cutting remarks against Pakistan, and practically threatening it, every day after the 26/11 attacks. This is not to compare the Chinese incursions to the Mumbai terror assault — the two are very different transgressions. It is merely to point out that Mukherjee recognised the public wanted its government to “do something”. Since war was not feasible, he did the next best thing and articulated Indian impatience and anger.

How did Khurshid react to the China crisis? At the commencement, both he and his Prime Minister sought to describe it as a “localised” problem and were at pains to sequester it from the larger India-China equation. Khurshid stressed India would not jeopardise other aspects of the Beijing-New Delhi relationship by focusing on the Ladakh incursion, which he rather bizarrely described as “acne”. Next he insisted he was “not here to satisfy people’s jingoism”. Finally, of course, he came up with the astounding formulation that India was like Mohammed Ali and its foreign policy borrowed from the great boxer’s “rope-a-dope” tactics, which involved tiring an opponent before knocking him out.

At various points in the past week, it has been unclear whether Khurshid was add­ressing the United Nations, the St. Ste­phen’s College Debating Society, or reaching out to the people of India. It would appear he has learnt nothing from experience. In January 2013, when the bodies of two Indian soldiers, beheaded by Pakistani troops, came home,
Khurshid’s first statement was to insist he wouldn’t be “pressurised by wild calls for revenge”. In the next few days, his government swung to a ridiculous extreme and threw out the Pakistani women’s hockey team.

What is the broader lesson that follows? In dealing with such egregious acts by an external actor — or at least acts that most Indians consider egregious, whether correctly or incorrectly —
Khurshid and his colleagues would have done well to start with clear-cut and hard-hitting remarks. The nuance could have come later.

The government’s advocates have emphasised it didn’t want to be rushed into a bigger mess, and point to the war-mongering among sections of the press that preceded the War of 1962. India moved into some forward positions — taking a maximalist view of a disputed border — and provoked a Chinese response, goes this line of thinking. Such concerns are legitimate. However, a dexterous, mature government embraces as well as moderates public emotions — it cannot afford to entirely snub them.

If 1962 was a disaster it was not because of bellicose Indian newspapers. It was because the political leadership pushed — or allowed itself to be pressured into pushing — unprepared and under-equipped Indian soldiers into a conflict they couldn’t possibly win.
Neither are India’s military choices limited to the binary of the all-out war of 1962 and the do-nothing-at-all of 2013. It is not as if Indian and Chinese troops have not seen eyeball to eyeball in the intervening period or even fired at each other. Two precedents bear recalling.

In September-October 1967, Indian and Chinese soldiers fought each other in skirmishes in Nathu La and Cho La on the Sikkim-Tibet frontier. The Indians got the better of their opponents and continue to hold Cho La to this day. The strategising was left to the Army and not to busybody politicians. Sam Manekshaw was at that time head of the Eastern Command and this episode established him as a special military commander. Twenty years later, in 1986-87, Chinese soldiers placed themselves in the Sumdorong Chu Valley, near Tawang. The Indian Army used recently-acquired helicopters to move troops behind the Chinese advance party and thereby isolate it.

Variations of such an approach — of course taking into account the topography and geographical specificities of Ladakh — could have been tried. The Army could have been given political cover to respond to the Chinese foray with a similar move and eventually restore both sides to positions they were at till a few weeks ago. It was not to be. New Delhi’s grand strategists often argue for an Indian Monroe Doctrine. Today, they are left with a Motormouth Doctrine and its logical corollary, a Milquetoast Doctrine.

[Philip]

The price of inaction
Bharat Karnad

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130509/c ... e-inaction

The little Chinese misadventure is over but only because India agreed to raze the fortified observation post at Chumar well inside its territory. The restoration of status quo based on such surrender provides China with a ready excuse to march into Indian territory again, with an undefined Line of Actual Control (LAC) legitimating armed intrusions.

Peace bought by concessions cannot last. Even so, the Indian Army is lucky because, like in 1962, it was being set up as scapegoat. Last week, a former “media adviser to the Prime Minister”, Sanjaya Baru, blamed the Army for “intelligence failure” resulting, he implied, in the Manmohan Singh government being caught unawares by the Chinese People’s Li­beration Army’s (PLA) advance 19 kms inside India. Every kilometre deep intrusion means potential loss on average of some 75 square kilometre of territory.

The former Army Chief, Gen. Ved Malik, also on the same TV programme, was so flabbergasted by Baru’s charge that he couldn’t collect his wits in time to explain that the management of the border with China is policed by the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) under the supervision of the benighted home ministry. Later, on another TV show, he described this border management system as “laughable”.

While the Army conducts its own field intelligence, it is the ITBP’s responsibility to keep the government apprised of developments on the border as well as the denizens of North Block in charge. How Sardar Patel, the first and last great home minister, who early apprehended the threat posed by the Chinese occupation of Tibet must be, proverbially speaking, turning in his grave!

Of course, the anomaly of why a paramilitary force is tasked with protection of a live border with China, when the Border Security Force on the side with Pakistan — an adversary of lesser consequence — is entirely under Army command, has to be explained by the Indian government, especially since there is evidence that this fundamentally flawed arrangement isn’t working.

Such a system of border control is apparently in place because it fits in with the thinking of the China Study Group (CSG) and its Mandarin-speaking members, mostly former diplomats, who are convinced that the paramilitary forces headed by police officers, even though sub-professional and boasting of no fighting qualities worth the name, are controllable, take dictation better than the Army, and hence can be relied on in situations on the LAC, where inertness and lack of initiative are prized.

Between the CSG and the ministry for external affairs combine and its inapt tool, the ITBP, the country’s interests are in peril. The fear of escalation has become a psychosis, leading New Delhi to raise non-reaction to Chinese provocation to high principle. Situations are allowed to drift in the hope that by not responding and, therefore, not offering the Chinese “provocation” in return, Beijing will eventually pull out its troops.

This is what happened in the Rokah Nullah area this time around — it was a bigger probing action than anything the PLA has mounted recently. More such incidents can be expected, any of which, in the face of predictably meagre response, may lead to permanent realignment of LAC and cutting off of access to the Siachen Glacier.

This leaves the Army up a creek because without accessible roads it is left with no sustainable proactive strategy at all in the face of the Chinese allowing themselves the leeway to intrude at will anywhere along the LAC.

Remarkably, it is the Indian government itself that is the villain — delaying the building of an extensive network of metalled, all-weather roads up to the LAC, especially in the extended area designated “sub-sector North” radiating northwest-wards and northeast-wards from Daulat Beg Oldi that the Third Infantry Division of the Leh-based 14 Corps is responsible for. It is a sobering thought that where road connectivity is concerned the conditions have not much improved from 1958 when Jawaharlal Nehru’s “forward strategy” began to be implemented.

There may be no border roads but a number of advanced landing grounds have been spruced up in the last decade at Daulat Beg Oldi, Fukche and Nyoma in the Ladakh sector to operate frontline combat aircraft.

This is all very well except that the availability of airborne ground attack capability in no way helps 14 Corps to respond fast and in kind to Chinese actions, which requires a quick marshalling of units whenever and wherever the LAC is breached.

The Indian Air Force is unlikely, in any case, to be ordered into action short of a fairly major conflict as its use is inherently escalatory. In the event, air power cannot substitute or compensate for the lack of land power options, and can no more deter aggressive Chinese moves across the LAC than the appeasement-laced diplomatic fidgeting that passes for India’s China policy.

Even as the PLA is able to muster a rapidly deployable, airborne, Division-sized force at any point on the LAC within a couple of days, amassing a similar formation on the Indian side is beyond the Indian Army’s ken mainly because of the absence of motorable roads.

The Indian government’s lack of will to put national security ahead of lesser concerns is incomprehensible. Letters from Army headquarters to the Prime Minister and other pooh-bahs in government pleading for roads and other infrastructure are routinely ignored.

Such criminal negligence by the Indian government has led to border projects worth some `30,000 crore hanging fire because of environmental clearances and land acquisition problems. That has allowed China to whittle away Indian territory. Such laxness and complacency on the part of the government can no longer be tolerated because it permits brazen land-grabs and aggressive acts by China.

It is imperative that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh takes two immediate decisions — of handing over the charge of the China border to the Army and getting the Cabinet Committee on Security to override all objections from ministries and departments of government obstructing infrastructure development, and order construction of border roads on a war-footing.

The writer is a professor at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi

[Philip]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130508/c ... china-wall

In Asia-Pacific lies India’s China wall
K.C. Singh | 08th May 2013

The withdrawal of Chinese troops from the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector of Leh on May 5 is a welcome development, although its suddenness raises questions. Firstly, did the Chinese extract any concessions on Indian patrolling, future infrastructure development or even force structures along the Line of Actual Control? If not, was the Chinese force projection in Leh a foolhardy gambit by hawks in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) without political clearance or did the Chinese political bosses realise that their actions were only pushing India into a closer alliance with others in the Asia-Pacific having their own territorial and freedom of navigation issues with China?

The UPA government, not known for its transparency in sensitive national security and foreign policy areas, needs to take a call on the trajectory of Sino-Indian relations. It can revert to trusting China, treating the DBO episode as an aberration. Alternatively, it can learn from the experience of the US in 1945 when its leadership wondered whether to trust Stalin’s Soviet Union, an ally that had helped the Allied powers defeat Germany and Japan, or contain it having determined that its ideological orientation foreordained its seeking supremacy in Europe. The US wasted two years, 1945-47, attempting accommodation before finally succumbing to the logic of American diplomat George F. Kennan that the Soviet Union had to be contained, letting its internal contradictions corrode its functioning and causing its ultimate collapse.

China appears invincible now, its economy billed to outstrip America’s in under a decade, as it builds its military strength at breakneck speed. While no nation can stymie the rise of China, a combination of nations can ensure that the rise remains within the bounds of globally understood principles of international comity and laws. China today confronts the challenge of an ageing population, environmental chaos, excessive dependence on an export-led economic model and a burgeoning property bubble. Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China and a long-time prognosticator of Chinese doom, continues to maintain that the recent transfer of power in China to the fifth generation of leaders has allowed the PLA to position itself for greater influence. Was the DBO fracas a consequence of this power shift, particularly because President Xi Jinping has had old links with the PLA, having been secretary to Geng Biao from 1979 to 1982, who was the secretary-general of the Central Military Commission?

The visit of Taro Aso, deputy prime minister and finance minister of Japan, to India holds significance that goes beyond the meeting of the Asian Development Bank that he ostensibly came to attend. As the foreign minister of Japan (2005-07), in Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s Cabinet, under whom he again serves, he was the strongest proponent of closer convergence between the principal democracies of the Asia-Pacific region. As the then additional secretary in the ministry of external affairs, I attended in May 2007 the first and only meeting of the Quad — a grouping of Australia, Japan, India and the US. It was strongly advocated by Japan and Australia, the latter under the Liberal Party, who may be regaining power in the September elections. Prime Minister Man-mohan Singh was reluctantly on board, as was President George Bush at that stage, still hoping that China would help with disarming DPRK (North Korea).

Aso chose a FICCI function on May 4 to revive the old thought — a hand-holding amongst the democracies of Asia-Pacific. In 2007, China had reacted negatively to the Quad meeting, calling it discriminatory. The 2013 context is entirely different. Japan has an active confrontation with China over Senkaku islands, India had PLA troops in Leh eye-balling Indian soldiers and China is asserting maximalist maritime claims along its Pacific periphery.

Aso talked of Japan building its Navy, the need for the Quad to have closer security links and the shared concerns of “maritime democracies” of the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean. He explained that “what happens in the Western Pacific should affect your interests and what happens in the Indian Ocean rim should affect the interests of my country”. He concluded with a message as much for India as for his own nation saying that Japan needed to enlarge its “mental map to fully embrace India’s role and presence as a global player”.

To emphasise this, Aso, during his meeting with Dr Singh, focused on the need to finalise the nuclear cooperation agreement between the two countries. The delay has been partly due to the nuclear accident in Japan in March 2011, as indeed the residual Japanese concern about India’s nuclear weapons programme. Japan has been a strategic investor in China, with its cumulative investment in China in 2008 totalling $64.83 billion. In October last year, its flow dropped, indicating Japanese concerns after the September rioting against Japanese companies.

A convergence of strategic interests between India and Japan would include the latter’s investment and technology being directed towards India. Already it is underwriting the critical high-speed transit corridor between Mumbai and Delhi/Ludhiana. Dr Singh heads to Japan on May 27, resuming a postponed visit. Under siege at home, his favourite ministers perhaps fatally injured, can he show that his government understands that Chinese friendship will come not by appeasement but by a bold linking of shoulders with like-minded democracies of Asia-Pacific, espousing the mental map that Aso articulated? Others can help India become a global player, but not until the Indian leadership shows the resolve.

The writer is a former secretary in the external affairs ministry