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Vayutuvan
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Vayutuvan »

the blurring is to obscure the injuries.
shiv
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

matrimc wrote:Something wrong with this picture - in the second picture the yellow part of the top of the bag is visible. That is not the device otherwise the bag should have disintegrated plus the dustbin (is it a dustbin? looks more like a utility box of some kind) should have been peppered with holes. Shaped charge is ruled out since it is not plastic explosive. FWIW
The debris spread pattern has helpfully drawn radial lines pointing to where the bomb went off and its definitely not that bag/object
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Rangudu »

Shiv

Good points.

The 'bin' actually looks like a post box, which is typically n-times sturdier and anchored to the ground with lots of concrete. The fence is a temporary structure, typically not anchored into the concrete but just weighed down. I've seen (and personally been in) cars hitting post boxes at 40+ mph and come out worse for the wear.

Regardless, the post box should have been dented at the least. Also, this does not jive with the videos of the blast, which seemed to suggest that the bomb was behind the crowd or at least in between the spectators. That would be consistent with the postbox being undamaged, because lots of people's legs would have taken the brunt of the shrapnel. Also, many reports were saying that the bombs were in black bags, not yellow.

I used to stay in that very neighborhood during my travels to Boston and with all the ATMs and CCTVs, I'm sure something will turn up soon, if it hasn't already.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Vayutuvan »

One more thing - if that were the device then at least a few runners would have got injured with shrapnel.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Muppalla »

Inspite of Clinton's bravado statement and even if there is clinching evidence about LeT, US will do nothing about it. It has to spend more to on education in Pakistan to keep the population away from wrong paths. The money that is being spent are too little and meager. Probably there is a need for special tax on US to help South Asian to not fall into trap of becoming terrorists. Wars on Terror will really not work.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Rangudu, on enlargement the windows in the building at the back are broken. There is a child in pink on the left of the tree. I see a rescue worker attending to something pink that has fallen forward on to the street. There is a man in a black jacket behind and to the right of the child in pink. He has fallen back on the pavement radially away from the child. The bomb was probably in the crowd, unseen.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Vayutuvan »

The second pic is taken a few minutes (at least > 3 minutes) after the bomb went off, looks like.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by SaiK »

Normally, between the legs kind of packages are not normally taken light by massan crowd. Some one would have raised alarm.. and informed cops about suspiciously placed bag in the crowd. Now, it could be possible that the person just left the crowd less than a minute or so perhaps before the blast., where in there is not enough time some one to think a bit more. there is no sign of suicide bombing going by the type of people dead.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

SaiK wrote:Normally, between the legs kind of packages are not normally taken light by massan crowd. Some one would have raised alarm.. and informed cops .
SaiK. Let us get out of stereotypes. There were two bombs. Both were placed unnoticed. Both went unreported. US intelligence had no clue that anything was amiss. There was no heightened security for a public event.

It is not just failure of massan crowd to behave in the way you claim they behave, but an intelligence failure and a sense that "Al iz vel" in Amrika
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Anujan »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 6T20130417

Boston Marathon bombs believed packed in pressure cookers
Authorities suspect whoever perpetrated the Boston Marathon attacks carried heavy bombs made from pressure cookers in nylon bags or backpacks to launch the worst bombings on U.S. soil since security was stepped up following the September 11, 2001, hijacked plane attacks.
PigLet fingerprint folks.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by saip »

BTW, doc that is not a dustbin. It is mail storage. There used to be a mail box next to it. It is probably removed because of budget cuts
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by CRamS »

Guys,, just speculating of course, but my best guess is that this was by one home grown nut case pissed off about gun control or some such thing. I would also not rule some sicko, and there are many in US, who just wanted to kill. I doubt there is any Al Queda angle, as much as bloviating morons on TV here speculate, much less any Paki angle.

R-man/DocJi, good analyses. R-man, I am glad my trade mark usage pigLeTs is on the rise :-).

Finally, this clown Praveen Swami is indeed turning out to just that, a moron. He should stick to grandmother fiction and get on the payroll of ISI/CIA.

Comparing US with India is like comparing night and day. I mean, as DoCJi pointed out, as much as this was a horrible attack, lets get some scale and order of magnitude here: 3 dead and 100 or so injured (counting scratches), while in India, if a pigLeT/ISI terror attack consumed only 3, it wouldn't even be news. This is another cowardly way of saying, jee even US gets hit, so we can't expect any less. Give me a break. Finally, look at the amount of resources US has marshaled; its mind boggling.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

One of the reasons why I get irritated with India USA comparisons is that I had my own cousin who grew up with me (no not that one CRamS) coming and cursing airport security in India before 9-11. Now, amusingly, he is the first to be ready to leave home 4 hours before a return flight to America. 9-11 changed American behaviour

On BRF and on other fora we have been reminded of how the US has been safe - with no attacks after 9-11. Boston will change American behavior. What these acts do is to force a change in behaviour. In India we go through security checks entering hotels, malls, sports stadia and theaters. The sense of freedom in the US was because airports were considered safe before 9-11 by lax security and a non alert public. That will change.

Some of these wars are not "won". A price is paid beyond immediate casualties. It rankles to see idiotic comparisons of one with the other where one is invariably stationed as better/superior than the other. That is asking to be laughed at when things change.
Last edited by shiv on 17 Apr 2013 07:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 6T20130417

Boston Marathon bombs believed packed in pressure cookers
Authorities suspect whoever perpetrated the Boston Marathon attacks carried heavy bombs made from pressure cookers in nylon bags or backpacks to launch the worst bombings on U.S. soil since security was stepped up following the September 11, 2001, hijacked plane attacks.
PigLet fingerprint folks.
I thought mainly desis buy pressure cookers in Amrika? But, I guess, Pakis and Chinese too.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by SaiK »

No place on the Earth is secure with terrorism and pakistan. I agree on the fact that Intelligence failure can be seen, and they are scrambling like hell.. and heck, they even kept going and pleading to send pics and videos, to say, this is the most complex thing Boston has ever faced. [well, on the background I was weeping for so many lives lost due to paki terrorism in India than any nation on the planet, what else could be more complex than desh problems?].. so, it is a fishbone pointer there.

shiv ji, regarding the between the legs bomb scenario, that I was just saying out of possibilities that could alarm anyone.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Rangudu »

Lots of different ethnicities use pressure cookers. I just realized that yesterday was tax day... which is a red flag for the anti-govt sickos here. This might very well be a jihadi thing but the low intensity, semi-crude nature of the blasts, as well as the significance of the day now makes me believe that the 'local right winger' angle is still a possibility.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

SaiK wrote:No place on the Earth is secure with terrorism and pakistan.
<snip>
shiv ji, regarding the between the legs bomb scenario, that I was just saying out of possibilities that could alarm anyone.
Therefore safety of one place over another being touted as inefficiency or incompetence in the other place is an act that has nothing to do with security and everything to do with a sense of "Mine is bigger/greater"

Last time I passed through Heathrow (maybe 5 years ago) they had removed all the waste bins and people where asked to discard anything on the floor - to be cleaned up in minutes by ever present janitors, This was to forestall dustbin bombs. Do security agencies in America regularly ask citizens to be wary of unattended baggage like they do in India?
Last edited by shiv on 17 Apr 2013 07:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Rangudu wrote:Lots of different ethnicities use pressure cookers. I just realized that yesterday was tax day... which is a red flag for the anti-govt sickos here. This might very well be a jihadi thing but the low intensity, semi-crude nature of the blasts, as well as the significance of the day now makes me believe that the 'local right winger' angle is still a possibility.
This is the American alternative explanation - the Indian equivalent being "Could be Saffron terror".
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by ramana »

First pic of the device:
http://news.yahoo.com/bomb-fragment-pic ... --spt.html

Looks like pzr cooker lid. Note the vent valve

Not Hawkins style. Its Prestige style
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by SaiK »

shiv wrote:Do security agencies in America regularly ask citizens to be wary of unattended baggage like they do in India?
if you are referring to airports, my answer would be yes. in fact, every airport i have visited, at periodic interval (say 5 minutes interval) they keep announcing.. is this what you are referring too?
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Rangudu, exactly what was low intensity and semi crude about bombs that were made out of materials that do not arouse suspicion when obtained, timed immaculately to go off simultaneously, no device failed to explode and they killed/injured nearly 150 people?

I would not be able to fashion such a bomb without training in materials and subterfuge. Would you?
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

SaiK wrote:
shiv wrote:Do security agencies in America regularly ask citizens to be wary of unattended baggage like they do in India?
if you are referring to airports, my answer would be yes. in fact, every airport i have visited, at periodic interval (say 5 minutes interval) they keep announcing.. is this what you are referring too?
Malls and bus and railway terminals as well
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by ramana »

Canadian report:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... -bomb.html

shiv, Low and high refer to velocity of detonation of explosives. Some thing like >3km/sec is high. What that does is have more shattering effect aka brisiance.

Yes experts used to seeing high funda devices are calling them crude but in end all such are improvised or built up. No one has factory made stuff.
i think the guy had training and has setoff some to proof them.
Also most such devices in India had fertilizer. This one no one is sure.
Such things need to be fine tuned.
See the dished top of the device shows the low shattering effect.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Rangudu »

shiv wrote:Rangudu, exactly what was low intensity and semi crude about bombs that were made out of materials that do not arouse suspicion when obtained, timed immaculately to go off simultaneously, no device failed to explode and they killed/injured nearly 150 people?

I would not be able to fashion such a bomb without training in materials and subterfuge. Would you?
No, but there are numerous US citizens affiliated with militia groups who teach even kids how to handle heavy firearms and explosives. The balance of probabilities still says jihadi but I'm saying that don't rule the local angle out.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by symontk »

If you notice the photos closer, there is rail near the mail box and after the explosion it is bent towards the road. If the bag had explosive it should have bent or blown towards the crowd. Also there is a rail that came out and I believe it was kept in that position by emergency crew. But it would have blown to the road

The bomb should have been with the crowds standing there
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Rahul M »

shiv wrote:
Rangudu that is very, VERY unlikely. 144 injured - OK the US will count even scratches on people - but we are talking 2 dead, 25 seriously injured and at least another 25 with severe injuries. Some have "degloving injuries" where skin and muscle is stripped off bone. Those are powerful bombs. I find that photo fascinating. Why was the fence blown in? Why not the dustbin? Maybe something shielded the bin and took the force of the blast? Or the device exploded or was designed to explode asymmetrically? Or the device was in the crowd and not seen
the IED might simply have been on its side, with the lid towards the spectators. that might explain why the fence was blown in but the post office letter box unharmed.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by svinayak »

matrimc wrote:Something wrong with this picture - in the second picture the yellow part of the top of the bag is visible. That is not the device otherwise the bag should have disintegrated plus the dustbin (is it a dustbin? looks more like a utility box of some kind) should have been peppered with holes. Shaped charge is ruled out since it is not plastic explosive. FWIW
The US post BOX is still standing near the vicinity of the 'blast' How can it not be affected by the blast,
Can anybody explain
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by ramana »

CNN had a better picture of the mangled pzr cooker lid. The bottom had markings of the mfg some Electro.... So definitely US bought.


also guys that picture is of the later explosion and is the metal container and not definitive pzr cooker one. So it could be less intensity hence the mail box still standing.
Hurray for US Postal service still stands even if Sat delivery is cut.

BTW CNN has scrolling headline"Tracking Suspects"

Most likely we will hear better news soon
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Acharya wrote: The US post BOX is still standing near the vicinity of the 'blast' How can it not be affected by the blast,
Can anybody explain
It has been shielded by something (multiple legs?)- besides as Rangudu said - it is made of shrapnel proof material.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Vayutuvan »

Rahul M wrote:
shiv wrote:
Rangudu that is very, VERY unlikely. 144 injured - OK the US will count even scratches on people - but we are talking 2 dead, 25 seriously injured and at least another 25 with severe injuries. Some have "degloving injuries" where skin and muscle is stripped off bone. Those are powerful bombs. I find that photo fascinating. Why was the fence blown in? Why not the dustbin? Maybe something shielded the bin and took the force of the blast? Or the device exploded or was designed to explode asymmetrically? Or the device was in the crowd and not seen
the IED might simply have been on its side, with the lid towards the spectators. that might explain why the fence was blown in but the post office letter box unharmed.
After looking at the pictures of the cooker on CNN that is my guess also. By the way the lid may not be present at all or loosely tied with the cooker tightly packed with gun powder and shrapnel. That would be very similar to a shaped charge and explain the mail storage box not getting damaged. This almost like a canon. Could there be a shell of some kind inside?
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by SaiK »

may be the crude bomb did not pack in so much explosive punch to destroy the mail box, but enough to dispatch 1000s of nails and pellets around to injure. note, the number of killed is less, while injured is quite a huge list. Also, there are lot of amputation cases. So, perhaps many survived by better and in time hospital/medic services.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by svinayak »

Image
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by deepan gill »

Shiv, with all due respect, let members speak their mind and express their opinions. I can assure you the assholegiri that you are tired of is currently being practiced by all intelligence agencies in English speaking world. I can also assure you, the Indian pundits are studying every aspect of this investigation. And its the same pundits whose negligence has not been questioned so far. If you do not like the comparisons between US and India, then please start with India first.

As I had mentioned before, a very important question has been left unanswered from 26/11 in post reports, white papers and intelligence services. Why didn't we turn off the cell phone services and save many lives, especially of the first commando who went in first to breach the Narmina House in Mumbai? This question needs to be answered for tax paying Indians.

As for Boston bombings, no one will claim responsibility, there will be no arrests in coming weeks, it clearly points to South Asian region, but, who knows it may be non state actors or their henchmen on payroll, example Indian Mujhadeen.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

deepan gill wrote:Shiv, with all due respect, let members speak their mind and express their opinions.
Well then there should be no takleef to anyone if I do exactly the same thing. You want to compare two bombs in Boston with ten gunmen shooting people then I will do that as well and ask why cellphone services are not cut off every time some American patriot goes about shooting schoolchildren. And what the hell was the point in stopping all flights for a week after 9-11?

So kindly stop comparisons which I believe are idiotic.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by JE Menon »

>>it may be non state actors or their henchmen on payroll, example Indian Mujhadeen.

Pls let's get the nomenclature right, and not get the word "Indian" into this. This is the opening salvo of the LeT North American chapter, which will gradually come to be known as American Mujahideen.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Kati »

My first instinct tells me that it is some US homegrown nutcase's handiwork.
(i) April 15th is the IRS' deadline for tax return which rankles many anti-federal lunatics.
(ii) In Boston marathon there were several newtown parents (whose kids were killed
earlier) as participants campaigning for stricter gun control. It's likely that some pro-gun lunatics wanted to send a symbolic message.
(iii) Now that the mail poison sent to a senator (not sure whether this senator from
Mississippi is pro/anti gun lobby).

By the way, the pressure-cooker bombs were extensively used by the Nepali Maoists with
knowhow from Pakistani elements. Please post some old news and shed some light on this.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

Kati wrote:My first instinct tells me that it is some US homegrown nutcase's handiwork.
(i) April 15th is the IRS' deadline for tax return which rankles many anti-federal lunatics.
(ii) In Boston marathon there were several newtown parents (whose kids were killed
earlier) as participants campaigning for stricter gun control. It's likely that some pro-gun lunatics wanted to send a symbolic message.
(iii) Now that the mail poison sent to a senator (not sure whether this senator from
Mississippi is pro/anti gun lobby).

By the way, the pressure-cooker bombs were extensively used by the Nepali Maoists with
knowhow from Pakistani elements. Please post some old news and shed some light on this.
You are bang on target when you ask about where the knowhow comes from. This would mean that American right wingers are now getting inputs from the Lashkar e Toiba whose handiwork is the pressure cooker with nails bomb. Many people have already posted the links you have requested.

IRA terrorists in the UK used to collaborate with Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers and as Rudradev pointed out India is used as a testing ground. Rajiv Gandhi soosai vest became the prototype for all soosais. The US won't learn from India so it makes little difference. The US has to get kicked before it learns. When it comes to issues like Vietnam, the US does not learn even after getting kicked - a Paki like tendency. No wonder they are allies. It won't be long before someone pipes up and says that life is so much better than India in the US despite Vietnam and Afghanistan.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Vayutuvan »

It is not a question of not learning. The people who have learnt are not at the helm and a new set of people are learning the same old lesson.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by shiv »

matrimc wrote:It is not a question of not learning. The people who have learnt are not at the helm and a new set of people are learning the same old lesson.
In fact I think that in the US there is a general belief that things don't/won't change. Particularly, America and Americans are blind to changes outside of America. The US has got used to covering up reverses and highlighting victories, just like Pakistan. Afghanistan is a shameful episode considering that the head of Al Qaeda was caught in Pakistan, an ally. After two countries were attacked.

There is a deep sense of belief in the American way - which is not such a bad thing in itself, but it is a fossilized mindset that is unable to respond to the outside world other than reacting to external entities as something inferior or a fearsome adversary to be vanquished by force. Force will gradually get applied on America.
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Re: Bomb explosion in Boston

Post by Sanku »

This report says FBI is clueless, is it really? Or just hiding?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/bosto ... y/1103734/

Boston Marathon blasts: FBI clueless about who did it and why
President Barack Obama branded the attack an act of terrorism but said officials don't know "whether it was planned and executed by a terrorist organization, foreign or domestic, or was the act of a malevolent individual.''

Richard DesLauriers, FBI agent in charge in Boston, said at a news conference that the "range of suspects and motives remains wide open.'' He vowed to "go to the ends of the Earth to identify the subject or subjects who are responsible for this despicable crime." :roll:
'
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