Boston Bombing Followup Thread

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Amber G.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Amber G. »

Sorry if it is already discussed. (Have not seen all the posts)
Anujanji , wrt to miranda --The types of questions - Are there other explosives? Are there other people with bombs? --Do not require Miranda.

Even in worst case scenario, the answers you get may not be used for convicting the accused (there is plenty other evidence,so his particular answers may not even be needed for the case.. Besides the statements can be used to gather further intelligence, AND trial of others.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by harbans »

ramana, give anmol a chance to come back. i am sure, everyone makes mistakes and corrects. i think he will too.
+1
Last edited by harbans on 21 Apr 2013 03:34, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SwamyG »

Theo_Fidel wrote:The Miranda warning is only for self incrimination. It is very limited unlike what the TV shows proclaim. The police will be careful not to use that evidence against him. That is all.
You are correct - at least as per the 'experts'. It is related to confessions, and they already think there are plenty of evidences to prosecute him. All it takes is an ambulance chaser type lawyer to seize the opportunity, and like Anujan fears it will go on and on for crazy. It boils down to how the case is made in the public.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ArmenT »

Amber G. wrote:Sorry if it is already discussed. (Have not seen all the posts)
Anujanji , wrt to miranda --The types of questions - Are there other explosives? Are there other people with bombs? --Do not require Miranda.

Even in worst case scenario, the answers you get may not be used for convicting the accused (there is plenty other evidence,so his particular answers may not even be needed for the case.. Besides the statements can be used to gather further intelligence, AND trial of others.
Miranda rights only need to be read out when the suspect is subject to interrogation. They need not be read out when arresting someone for probable cause. So, they can take him to the hospital and when he's somewhat recovered, inform him of his right to have a lawyer and right to remain silent and then start questioning him. Any statements he made or replies to questions they asked him, before they read him his rights are inadmissible in court as evidence (though I highly doubt Boston PD said anything to him besides "Surprise mo-fo!")

The whole reason the Miranda rights came out was because the 5th amendment of the US constitution guarantees the right to not self-incriminate oneself (i.e. you have the right to remain silent, if asked a question that could incriminate you.) Also, the accused has the right to ask for a lawyer to be present during interrogation. The whole thing came up because one Ernesto Miranda was arrested in a rape case and at the police station, when he saw the evidence the police had against him, he wrote a detailed signed confession. The defence lawyer argued that since he was a relatively uneducated fella, he didn't know that he could have refused to write out the confession and asked for a lawyer to be present to represent him. Therefore, the evidence of the written confession in the original trial was thrown out for improper questioning procedure. It didn't stop Miranda from getting convicted from other evidence presented in a second trial though.
Last edited by ArmenT on 21 Apr 2013 04:14, edited 2 times in total.
Anujan
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

Have interacted with anmol mian in phunwa dhaaga. I am reaslnably sure that he doesn't have malice in him, just is a prolific copy - paster. Probably didn't realize his copy pasting was lending credence to the rumors.

Admins probably know better who to ban, not trying to do their job for them.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

On that note, there seems to be a cabal of Pakis and leftists who are fervently wishing for any proof for so called "Hindu terrorism". What better validation than an attack on massa? Unfortunately they have been disappointed so far. I still remember the emails circulated after train burning as to how it was self inflicted. Was a pile of nandi droppings. Need to be careful about such folks and not inadvertantly become a facilitator for their worldview.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Amber G. »

ramana wrote:Atlantic Monthly:

Falsely accused in Boston 3 Examples

As usual doesn't include the Reddit case.
Atlantic Monthly does have an article about Sunil Tripathi case
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... er/275155/
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

ramana-ji
Reasonably sure that random attacks are not blamed on Islam. It is a worldview that seeds such poisonous plants. Take Faisal Shahzad for example was son of an air vice marshal. So probably there was plenty of "Hindustani kutta" while he was growing up. Same for headley and Rana who went to paki military schools. The poisonous seed gets sown and the sprouts later in life even after years of living in a western country. Rember the British pakis who bombed London?
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

my point was, to ensure we have the right enablers for corrections. that is all. if ramana ban him, and that should be done and ramana has valid reasons. but, then, my request was to consider that punishment to be short term as we could have him changing after a realization that should set him up soon or already realized.

regarding, social media, heck yeah! they have no authoritativeness to present cases or prove and disprove criminals. the problem started with FBI actually. FBI effed this up royally, by asking for public support to send pictures and videos.. not sure, how the social media reacted to this.. and the missing case happens. poor family is still missing him, has he been found? no one knows.

lessons are, please don't heed to social networking advice.. especially on such matters where official confirmation is required. it is a matter of national shame.. shame on THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!~ to blindly believe in protected setups like illiterates.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Folks forget there were two not just one requests from your truly. And those whom you are calling self appointed 'police'(a whole gamut from Shiv to Sanku) saw the unfairness in the SM characterization and repeatedly suggested him to chillax. Just because someone is calling out doesnt mean you take leave of your senses. Once or twice is understandable.

Anyway he can reflect whether what he did was right. And others too!
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

The Miranda rights abeyance is for 48 hours after custody. After that the judge will read them.
Looks more like a political decision after the underwear bomber. And on cue the Republicans(Presidential candidates down) want even more reduction of civil rights!

Lets see how it unfolds.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"Hindu terrorism" is so bogus, contrived and dishonest. Surely, if there were really such a thing, it would have surfaced by now( actually, a long time ago) in countries where Hindus are a minority, and where there is some discrimination and/or persecution against Hindus. And these putative Hindu terrorists would be constantly citing Hindu scriptural works as a justification for their violence. Social scientists and journalists would be examining the phenomenon and commenting extensively on it, particularly with regard to the link between the persecution and the violence. There would need to be some goal at the end of this terror as well, such as the formation of a Hindu theocratic state run on ancient laws, or at least a pure Hindu state, where only worship of Hindu symbols and imagery would be permitted, any criticism of which is met with severe or lethal punishment.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Are you in the right thread?
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

dunno how that pic on page three posted by singha happened. current shots/cnn tells that after some fire exchange from the boat, he was lying down injured.. a thermal imager(FLIR) confirmed that he is down injured. so, the question is when did that photo happened? so, was he able to walk and jump out with injury? was he shot? was that photo take earlier?
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"On that note, there seems to be a cabal of Pakis and leftists who are fervently wishing for any proof for so called "Hindu terrorism". What better validation than an attack on massa? Unfortunately they have been disappointed so far."

Hi Ramana, I was responding to this message specifically, by Anujan, 4 above mine.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by svinayak »

A single tweet references Mulugeta at the time his name was said on the scanner. A Twitter user named Carcel Mousineau simply said, "Just read the name Mike Mulugeta on the scanner." It was retweeted exactly once. In the unofficial transcript of the scanner on Reddit, at least as it stands now, the reading of the name was recorded simply: "Police listed a name, unclear if related."

The next step in this information flow is the trickiest one. Here's what I know. At 2:42am, Greg Hughes, who had been following the Tripathi speculation, tweeted, "This is the Internet's test of 'be right, not first' with the reporting of this story. So far, people are doing a great job. #Watertown" Then, at 2:43am, he tweeted, "BPD has identified the names: Suspect 1: Mike Mulugeta. Suspect 2: Sunil Tripathi."

The only problem is that there is no mention of Sunil Tripathi in the audio preceding Hughes' tweet. I've listened to it a dozen times and there's nothing there even remotely resembling Tripathi's name. I've embedded the audio from 2:35 to 2:45 am for your own inspection. Multiple groups of people have been crowdsourcing logs of the police scanner chatter and none of them have found a reference to Tripathi, either. It's just not there.


Could some people have heard the name, but somehow that did not make it into the canonical recording at Broadcastify? I don't think one can rule anything out with this story, but it seems, at least, unlikely. (No other recordings have turned up from this time period in which Tripathi's name is mentioned.)

Yet the information was spreading like crazy. Seven minutes after Hughes' tweet, Kevin Michael (@KallMeG), a cameraman for the Hartford, Connecticut CBS affiliate, tweeted, "BPD scanner has identified the names : Suspect 1: Mike Mulugeta Suspect 2: Sunil Tripathi. #Boston #MIT." More media people started to pick things up around then, BuzzFeed's Andrew Kaczynski most quickly. His original tweet has since been deleted but retweets of it began before midnight and reached far and wide. Other media people including Digg's Ross Newman, Politico's Dylan Byers, and Newsweek's Brian Ries also tweeted about the scanner ID as midnight approached. Then, at 3am Eastern*, @YourAnonNews, Anonymous' main Twitter account tweeted, "Police on scanner identify the names of #BostonMarathon suspects in gunfight, Suspect 1: Mike Mulugeta. Suspect 2: Sunil Tripathi."

The informational cascade was fully on. @YourAnonNews' tweet was retweeted more than 3,000 times. We don't know how far Hughes's, Kaczynski's, or Michael's tweets went because they've been deleted. Hundreds of references to their tweets remain on Twitter.

By this time, there was a full-on frenzy as thousand upon thousands of tweets poured out, many celebrating new media's victory in trouncing old media. It was all so shockingly new and the pitch was so high and it was so late at night on one of the craziest days in memory. That Redditors might have identified the bomber hours before anyone but law enforcement seemed like amazing redemption for people who'd supported Reddit's crowdsourcing efforts.

Hughes himself, the primary source of the information on Twitter, tweeted, "If Sunil Tripathi did indeed commit this #BostonBombing, Reddit has scored a significant, game-changing victory." And then later, he continued, "Journalism students take note: tonight, the best reporting was crowdsourced, digital and done by bystanders. #Watertown."

Within a few hours, however, NBC's Williams had confirmed with his sources that two Chechnyan brothers were the primary suspects in the case. Their names and stories came out quickly. This horrible deed of misidentification ended mercifully quickly. Apologies were made.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

NYT blog:

Meanwhile Sunil is still missing

Folks there is a need to get some accountability for runaway social media as it can be abused to spread lies.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shiv »

Rajiv Lather wrote:
They are recruited not to help agencies like FBI to infiltrate the jihadi groups, but to help agencies like CIA to create and train terrorists to destabilize countries and regimes.
.
True. I know at least 2 Indians (friends/acquaintances) who have been approached by CIA ( more than a decade ago) when they were students. CIA types would hang around University campuses for the purpose. One of them declined. Not sure about the other but the fact that he revealed the story seems like he probably did decline. IIRC the CIA were open and did not do anything hush hush. they said they were from CIA.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shaardula »

there was a media outlet that was definititvely declared that tripathi was of marxist bent, all because the guy wore a che t-shirt. anyone remember who that media house was?
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

it is unfortunate that sunil is not carrying any gadget to be traced and located. no gps? he is missing since 16th..

ramana, valid points and reasonable actions.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

Today in a few hours is the london marathon....with even more urban areas and more participants than boston since people mostly get in via lottery.

London btw is claimed to have 1 million cctv camera, one for every 14 residents....and i sure huge police will be deployed. Hope it passes off peacefully.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shaardula »

on the fall out on immigration, that is just xenophobia in a garb.
if guns dont kill people, people do, how does immigration kill people?

there've been p-number of skin-heads who've indulged in mass terrorism mowing down vast numbers of citizen-minorities including sikhs, random son-of-the-soil retards who have mowed down random other son-of-soils. if these guys are not talking about rescending on auto-citizenship of these people, then ...

to paraphrase a samskrita saying in english, more stink than shit, is what this is.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

I think every city in the world should do a marathon in support of boston marathoners.
shaardula wrote:random son-of-the-soil retards ..
all forgotten! and perhaps forgiven too.
Last edited by SaiK on 21 Apr 2013 06:43, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

CNN reports;

Official: Suspect has throat injuries and may no be able to talk
(CNN) -- The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings suffered an injury to his throat and may not be able to talk, a federal official told CNN on Saturday, possibly hindering attempts by authorities to question him about a motive in the attack.

With one suspect dead, authorities believe answers to a motive and whether the brothers had help rest with Dzhokar Tsarnaev, who was captured Friday night just minutes after authorities had indicated that a massive manhunt for the suspect appeared to come up empty.

The official, who was briefed on Tsarnaev's condition, spoke on condition of anonymity.

Tsarnaev was in "serious but stable condition" and "not yet able to communicate yet," Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick told reporters during an impromptu briefing on Saturday.

Federal prosecutors are at the heavily guarded Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where Tsarnaev is being treated for wounds. Authorities have not publicly detailed the injuries sustained by the teen.

"I, and I think all of the law enforcement professionals, are hoping for a host of reasons that the suspect survives, because we have a million questions, and those questions need to be answered. There are parts of the investigation, in terms of information and evidence, that still needs to be run to ground," Patrick said.

Authorities have not said whether they have questioned Tsarnaev, nor have they publicly said what charges will be filed against the teen. But a Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told CNN the teen will face federal terrorism charges and possibly state murder charges.

The government has invoked the public safety exception, a designation that allows investigators to question the teen without reading him his Miranda rights and without a lawyer present, another Justice Department official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, told CNN.

Tsarnaev, 19, and his older brother, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, are accused of setting off two bombs near the finish line of the Boston Marathon on Monday, killing three people and leaving more than 170 wounded.

The arrest of Tsarnaev brought to an end a manhunt that paralyzed Cambridge, Watertown and Boston as authorities searched door to door for a suspect not only believed to be behind the bombings, but who they feared also could unleash more explosives.

Acting alone?

So far, evidence suggests that the two brothers acted alone in the bombings and subsequent shootout, Watertown Police Chief Edward Deveau said.

"From what I know right now, these two acted together and alone," Deveau told CNN on Saturday. "I think we have to be ever vigilant, and we're learning as we go along, but as far as this little cell -- this little group -- I think we got our guys."

Even so, questions remain.

"Why did these young men who grew up and studied here as part of our communities and our country resort to such violence? How did they plan and carry out these attacks? And did they receive any help? The families of those killed so senselessly deserve answers," President Barack Obama said Friday in a televised address.

24 hours of chaos

Shortly after the FBI released photos of the suspects Thursday night, Tsarnaev and his older brother led authorities on a wild car chase and shootout.

Officials say the brothers, for no obvious reason, killed Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer Sean Collier while he was sitting in his car. The Tsarnaevs then hijacked a Mercedes, telling the driver they were the marathon bombers, and hurled explosives at the pursuing officers, authorities said.

"There was an exchange of over 200 rounds of gunfire, there were improvised explosive devices, and handmade hand grenades thrown at the officers at the scene," Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said.
......
Makes it moot or mute point about Miranda rights
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shiv »

ramana wrote:Some psychological analysis is needed as to why disgruntled/disaffected Muslim individuals resort to violence and claim to be doing it for Islamic glory. Note I did not include unsuccessful for even successful ones suddenly doff their veneer and jump into the fray.
ramana we know why. We have discussed this so many times. It is the Islamic upbringing that leaves a sense of dissatisfaction that the world is wrong because it is unislamic and that violence/war is necessary. There is a desensitization to slaughter and flowing blood by a combination of Quranic stories -(the one on which Bakrid is based) and by the daily ritual of slitting an animal throat and allowing the blood, which is impure to flow out. You will never see these guys faint at the sight of blood or empathize with silly Hindu/animal rights pansies who speak of animal suffering.

The only point is governments don't believe all this shit. It is left in the realm of personal opinion. University psychology depts do not deal wit the psychology of Islam.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

SaiK wrote:I think every city in the world should do a marathon in support of boston marathoners.
shaardula wrote:random son-of-the-soil retards ..
all forgotten! and perhaps forgiven too.
Everyone from adidas to ny street sellers have jumped on this microtrend offering t shirts from boston strong theme :D
Some like adidas claim all proceeds will go to the 1 fund to help victims.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

that would be a boost in Adidas sale!
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Rangudu »

What's with the constant CT mode here friends?

This guy can't talk and they have enough evidence to convict him without needing to even interview him. The Obama admin made a political call to use the legally allowed exception to DELAY reading him his Miranda rights.

When this simple, Occam's razor explanation is for all to see, we have everyone and his Uncle talk about Unkil deliberately plotting to let this guy go or that he's a Headley clone. Sure, he might turn out to be an informer, but as of now there is not an iota of evidence to support that.

All that's certain is the older brother got infected by the jihad virus at some point in the last couple of years and as with many others, that's all it takes to get a start.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Bade »

I know the jihadi virus theory is a favorite one and is very likely true in this case considering their background, but it took no jihadi virus for the Newtown nut to go shooting little kids and then shoot himself. It is the same personality type with different sets of grievances. In one case, we know even less about the trigger point, unlike in this case with its many possible trigger points, now that the family history is out in the open. That is why I said this is a pure domestic internal matter of the US and its society, rather than any possible direct infiltration from the outside. Just as the Newtown kid was surfing and getting his mind twisted, the duo here did the same with the islamic preachers being their source. Both are equally poison to impressionable loser kids with no direction in life.

The only thing which will contradict the above is if one of the duo was in an informant role and something went sour.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shaardula »

Bade wrote:I know the jihadi virus theory is a favorite one and is very likely true in this case considering their background, but it took no jihadi virus for the Newtown nut to go shooting little kids and then shoot himself. It is the same personality type with different sets of grievances.
precisely.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Rangudu »

A nutbag going off using his mother's guns in a nursery school cannot be compared with an organized bombing effort. Too much organization for a lone madman theory to be true.

The older brother went to Chechnya and by most accounts it was AFTER that visit that he started showing his dingbat-ness. It's extremely unlikely that he picked up bomb making skills just through internet videos and manuals. At the very least, I'd expect a few others in the US were part of this cell, with the more senior members still to be found. Time will tell.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by shaardula »

rangudu how do you square stealing 800$ enroute to escape. this was a phata chappal project.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

still, for him it was critical that it does not explode on his face nor half way somewhere, and done precisely by remote. so, there is a learning curve. straight from the internet, would not have lead to precision in the first try itself. perhaps, he had done some practice bombing then, if that is the case.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by ramana »

Anujan
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Anujan »

WaPo describing the escape
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html

Apparently the bigger jihadi was run over by mistake by the younger jihadi
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Singha »

Rangudu wrote:A nutbag going off using his mother's guns in a nursery school cannot be compared with an organized bombing effort. Too much organization for a lone madman theory to be true.

The older brother went to Chechnya and by most accounts it was AFTER that visit that he started showing his dingbat-ness. It's extremely unlikely that he picked up bomb making skills just through internet videos and manuals. At the very least, I'd expect a few others in the US were part of this cell, with the more senior members still to be found. Time will tell.
Birth pangs of the american mujahideen.

America and canada and uk now have good number of naturalized mujahids from all over, all with their sets of triggers from libya, egypt, tsp, afghanistan, iran, iraq, saudi, chechnya...every failed islamic nation has contributed set of emigres.
Born american kids are now making extended trips back home to rediscover their um roots.

Internet makes it possible for preachers and thinkers to have a wide and cheaply reached audience. Just upload on some site and let it spread.

9/11 type elaborate ops no longer needed. Far easier to turn a few of these youngsters into small splinter cells and let them run with the ball. Makes it hard to track due to no central plotter or node.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Rangudu »

shaardula wrote:rangudu how do you square stealing 800$ enroute to escape. this was a phata chappal project.
They were't taught to kill but not the escape plan, so they ad-libbed it.They were confident enough to build IEDs and lob them successfully in the middle of a firefight, leave alone the fact that they had 100% success with their main bombs.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by SaiK »

..and what made them think they can escape a well gizmo-ed society and cctvs? did they not thinkwere taught how to obfuscate themselves?
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Bade »

There is no escape plan for a jihadi, except suicide vests usually. Even the Mumbai attack jihadis had no escape plan from the looks of it. They came prepared to die after maximum damage is done. These duo here did not want to die, one even went back to college to a regular routine for a few days. And the impact of getting run over did not explode the elder one's vest if he had one. The other engaged in a firefight and all that still did not trigger his vest if he had one. Looks like he had no plan to get his 72 raisins in heaven. WTF were they thinking, like one of his neighbors asked a reporter in a TV interview.

The only thing the younger one will get is the electric chair. The elder one had the easy way out in a way. Don't be a loser and a follower too, a deadly combo. Lessons for future disgruntled teenage adults.
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Re: Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Post by Prem »

Talking about rough Nut , Screwballs.

There was a movie with De Niro playing the NYC cop tracking 2 Russian or CAR immigrants who go on on real violent, killing spree under the impression they could become famous and sell their story to TV or Newspaper.
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