Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_20292 » 08 Aug 2013 00:13

ramana wrote:
- MEA and their bag holders in media should shut up. They have no bone in this fight. Afghanistan etc are secondary red herrings.



-


Afghanistan is primary to this business.

I believe that India should step in wholly into Afghanistan and train them to do bamboo for TSPA .

Two can play at the two front war game

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby ramana » 08 Aug 2013 01:06

Shisir Gupta in HT gives an account and deduces the TSP goals are to takeover Kabul and plunge Kashmir into crisis.

Capture Kabul, Cripple Kashmir is Pak strategy


It was around 4.30 am on July 1 when a Pakistani suicide bomber crossed the Line of Control and blew himself up about 25 meters from an Indian Army picket at Saujiyan in the Poonch sector of Jammu and Kashmir. Other than the bomber, there were no casualties. A week later, in the same area, a Pakistani improvised explosive device – a roadside bomb – proved more lethal and killed an Indian Army porter.


India believes these attacks, and other such activity along the de facto border and inside Jammu and Kashmir, are part of a deliberate Pakistani game plan to push in as many militants as possible across the LoC. The goal of all this: escalate violence in the run-up to and possibly disrupt the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly elections next year.


On the other side of Pakistan, though this may not seem obvious to people in India, is a related attempt by Rawalpindi to use the same terrorists to drive India out of Afghanistan. US intelligence had confirmed to India that Lashkar e Taiba cadre were being moved into the provinces of Kunar and Nuristan in expectation of the US troop withdrawal from Afghanistan next year. The recent suicide bomb attack on the Indian consulate in Jalalabad which killed a dozen people was part and parcel of this larger strategy. “Pakistan is using Lashkar to target Indian interests in Kabul,” said a senior Indian official. “The Jalalabad attack was orchestrated by Lashkar.” :((

Pakistan is similarly transferring militant cadre recruited from its Khyber Paktunkhwa province to boost militant ranks in the Kashmir Valley.

The broad Indian assessment is that the LoC and Kashmir in general have seen relatively low levels of Pakistani action because Rawalpindi was forced to divert as many as 150,000 troops to the Pakistan-Afghan border. With the US troop withdrawal approaching and Pakistan sensing that it may soon have a friendly regime ensconced in Kabul, the Pakistani army and Lashkar are once more concentrating on destabilizing Kashmir.

Lashkar chief Hafiz Sayeed declared this in a recent India Today interview saying, “Full-scale armed jihad will begin soon in Kashmir after American forces withdraw from Afghanistan.”

Kashmir is starting to simmer again. Attempts by Lashkar’s border action teams, :eek: groups that are backed by the Pakistani Army, to ambush Indian Army patrols have gone up this year. The decapitation of two soldiers in Krishnaghati area of Poonch sector on January 8, 2013, and the recent killing of five Indian soldiers in the same sector on Tuesday morning are just two of the more bloody examples.

“The escalation is evident from the fact that till July 2012 only 13 infiltrators had been killed but during the same period this year more than 23 infiltrators have been killed on the LoC,” said a source. “There have been no less than 10 border actions undertaken by Pakistan Army backed terrorists on the Jammu LoC ,” said a senior official. He warned that the infiltration figures are expected to rise this month.

{Instead of whining what is he going to do about it? Wear bangles and complain to select Indian press?}


That is along the border. The situation inside the Valley has become equally violent. There have been two definitive suicide attacks by Lashkar cadres this year inside Jammu and Kashmir – the first in three years. A fidayeen attack on Central Reserve Police Force camp at Bemina in Srinagar on March 14 and an attack on Indian Army jawans at Hyderpora bypass a day before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s June 25 visit to Kashmir.

Indian intelligence conducted a security review in Kabul days before the Jalalabad attack. The then home secretary RK Singh flew down to Srinagar on June 20 to brief army and police about a threat against a police station on the eve of Singh’s June 25 visit.

“The Poonch action shows that Pakistan Army is opposed to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif normalizing ties with India and is also connected to the appointment of General Parvez Kiyani’s successor in November,” said a senior official. :rotfl:

The Pakistani gameplan is quite clear: infiltrate militants eastward and westward, across the Durand and Radcliffe lines. Rawalpindi’s men in khaki want to turn the clock back to the 1980s when Afghanistan was a Pakistani colony and Kashmir was in flames.



I think those senior Indian offcials dont deserve to be called senior,. Their analysis is almost junior like.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 08 Aug 2013 02:04

^^ Gen KT Patnaik - the army has already announced preparations for over a year for the Lashkar offensive that is coming. Shishir sounds like he is quoting a civvie who isn't well versed on such matters.
--------------------
Very similar position to an article posted in March 2013 and my position I said in 2011!

Why J&K attacks show India needs a strong Afghanistan policy
by Praveen Swami Aug 6, 2013

For over an hour, the mangled body of one of the men who’d tried to blow up the Indian consulate in Jalalabad lay on the street, surrounded by a sullen crowd of local residents. Nine small children had died in the explosion, which took place while they were walking down the street on their way to religious studies classes in the local mosque. “Everyone was staring”, a witness recalls, “as if they wanted to will the dead man back to life, so they could beat him to death again”. Then, a little boy in a a light-blue shalwar-kameez emerged from the crowd, and calmly walked up to the dead body. He undid the drawstrings on his trousers, and urinated on the corpse. The crowd cheered.

Three hours flight-time away from Jalalabad, United States diplomats are trying to hammer out a peace deal with Taliban negotiators at the plush Four Seasons Hotel on Doha’s upmarket Corniche. Last month, the Taliban shut down their new political office in Doha, following furious Afghan protests. But the talks have quietly continued. India’s government, following the western lead, has been betting they’ll lead to a peace deal before the United States draws-down its forces in Afghanistan next year.

Last night’s murderous ambush in Poonch, where Pakistan army irregulars are thought to have organised the ambush which claimed the lives of five Indian soldiers, shows that hope is self-delusion. The Poonch attack is among the first gusts of the storm brewing across the Hindu Kush to touch home.. The attack on the Indian consulate served notice to New Delhi that Afghanistan’s future is more likely to resemble the Jalalabad street than the Doha Corniche. For India, the choices it now makes in Afghanistan will have critical consequences, especially in Kashmir— but the government is shutting its eyes, and hoping it all turns out to be a bad dream.

AFP Afghanistan policemen walk at the site of a suicide attack in front of the Indian consulate in Jalalabad. AFP
For the first time since the near-war of 2001-2002, as Firstpost recently reported, losses of Indian security force personnel have risen relative to the precious year. The underlying reason is simple: as the United States prepares to pull out of Afghanistan, it is less less able to push Pakistan to rein-in jihadist groups operating against India. For its part, the Pakistan army has good reason to resume low-grade hostilities against India, hoping to regain some legitimacy with elements of the jihadist movement who have turned against it in recent years. It hopes to install a client government in Kabul, evict India from the picture and resume its efforts to use covert warfare as a tool to tie down its increasingly powerful neighbour.

In December, Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed told members of the secessionist All-Parties Hurriyat Conference that he intended to revive operations once the United States was out of Afghanistan. He publicly warned, in February, that “just as America had to run away, then India, you will have to leave Kashmir”.

For weeks before the Jalalabad attack, government sources have told Firstpost, there had been multiple intelligence warnings on Indian diplomatic facilities in Kabul, Kandhahar and Jalalabad. Earlier this year, India Today‘s Saurabh Shukla has reported, a high-level Indian delegation led by Deputy National Security Advisor Nehchal Sandhu suggested enhanced security measures for new ambassador Amar Sinha.

Indian and Afghan investigators believe the attack on the consulate only failed because of poor planning and reconnaissance. The three suicide bombers, driving an explosives-laden Toyota Corolla car, were stopped at an Afghan police checkpoint some 30 metres from the consulate gate. Two of the men emerged from the car, and began to walk towards the checkpoint. Even as they moved forward, though, the suicide-bomber inside the car detonated the vehicle —setting off the suicide vest on a second attacker. Police at the checkpoint opened fire, killing the third.

In several recent strikes, jihadist assault teams stormed their targets taking advantage of the shock and confusion caused by the initial attack— among them, the July attack on a DynCorp-run guest house which claimed the lives of Indian nationals John Martis, Sandeep Jilaji, Naveen Kumar Gurudi and Kaushik Chakraborty. Near-identical tactics were used to strike Central Intelligence Agency offices and the Presidential palace in June— even as President Hamid Karzai was holding a press conference. For reasons we don’t know yet, the Jalalabad attackers didn’t get it right.

Like the two past attacks on India’s embassy in Kabul, there are even odds that Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence was involved: a murderous attack in 2008, the New York Times’ Mark Mazetti and Eric Schmitt reported, was directly facilitated by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, while Afghan authorities blamed the 2010 strike on it.

In each of those past instances, India itself remained quiet, choosing not to make Prime Minister Manmohan Singh‘s pursuit of a grand peace bargain with Pakistan contingent on terrorism.

The strategy has failed— but there are things New Delhi can do to exert pressure. First as Firstpost revealed recently, President Karzai has given New Delhi a lethal-weapons shopping list, calling in Afghanistan’s entitlements under the Strategic Partnership Agreement the two countries have signed. Afghanistan wants 105 millimetre artillery, as well as helicopters and transport aircraft— all second-hand equipment India can supply at a relatively low cost. India has so far denied the requests, fearing it will complicate the relationship with Pakistan and the United States. Instead, it has granted $100 million in economic aid to Afghanistan, in addition to $2 billion already committed. The aid has won friends— ordinary Afghans often tell visitors that while Pakistan gives them suicide bombers, India is giving them hospitals. Yet, beefing up Afghanistan’s armed forces will send Pakistan an important signal of intent.

Then, India needs to make clear it won’t tolerate a peace deal with the Taliban that undermines Afghanistan’s constitution and democracy. In 2014′s presidential elections, the likely candidates of the major opposition blocs, the National Front and National Coalition, will likely be figures friendly to India— ranging from former foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah to Hanif Atmar. Karzai-linked candidates are more sympathetic to Pakistan —but more Indian military aid will lock them into the relationship.

Finally, India can adopt a more muscular posture on the Line of Control. Estimates suggest about a third of Pakistan’s 500,000-strong army is committed to counter-terrorist operations in its North-West. Indian troops have given at least as good as they’ve got on the Line of Control, staging several eye-for-an-eye raids across the Line of Control to punish Pakistani attacks. The government’s been loath, though, to up the stakes, for fear for the ceasefire falling apart. If India reconsiders that strategy, though, it can threaten to make Pakistan more vulnerable to domestic terrorism by forcing it to pull troops eastwards.

The one option India doesn’t have is to do nothing. For a decade now, India has ridden on the back of historically-anomalous geo-strategic springtime: the restraining presence of the United States, a war between Pakistan and the jihadists it long patronised, and a favourable international climate, driven by record economic growth. Now, events suggest, a harsh winter could again be descending.

Similar to below article
Mission Afghanistan
ANANTH DURAI 15 March 2013 Subjects:Afghanistan India Security in South and Central Asia Peacebuilding Policing Bordering on Peace?
India must take on a global leadership role, providing both economic and military aid together with regional/global partners, in support of the Afghan government.

The recent visit of Afghan president Hamid Karzai to India has highlighted the strong and growing cooperation between the two countries. Since the toppling of the Taliban regime in 2001, India has offered close to $2 billion in mostly economic and humanitarian aid. The signing of a strategic partnership agreement in 2011 paved the way for deepening bilateral relations. The Indian government's Public Sector Units (PSU) consortium won a large mining concession in Hajigak, an investment that will lead to the construction of a steel mill – and that some estimate in the region of $8 billion. India has also paid in blood for the stability and support of Afghanistan, most recently in an attack on Indian Army doctors.

But what exactly is India’s game plan in Afghanistan? To answer this, we need to understand the regional picture.

All quiet on the northern front

India has had tremendous success in eliminating terrorists inside Jammu and Kashmir state (J&K) over the last five years with intelligence reports appearing to indicate frustration among the ranks of the terrorists at the lack of support by the Pakistani authorities for their war in Kashmir. Terror attacks are at an all time low and have been low in the last three years in J&K. Tourism to the state has reached record levels (9 million visitors as of October 2012) and progress is being made economically in the lives of ordinary citizens in the region.

During 2012, Indian police received over 1000 amnesty applications from youths who had crossed over to Pakistan at the height of the insurgency from J&K for arms training, wishing to return to India and rebuild their lives. This has been encouraged by cutbacks in Pakistani funding for Kashmiri organisations, as well as the futility of terrorist activity.

Unfortunately all this success cannot be attributed to Indian diplomacy, so much as to the regional geopolitical situation. Evidence arising from the interrogation of terrorists under arrest supported by intelligence reports suggest that the Pakistani establishment appears to be encouraging Kashmiri groups to turn their gaze towards fighting US/ISAF troops in Afghanistan. This is supported further by numerous arrests and intelligence reports from the ISAF in Afghanistan. It is no secret that Pakistan continues to provide support/sanctuary to the Taliban and its allies such as the Haqqani network.

We can conclude as a result that Pakistani efforts and priorities appear to be lie in securing its ‘backyard’ and ensuring that the ISAF/US forces vacate Afghanistan, paving the way for the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, post 2014.

But why? The main reason appears to be to put a stop to Pashtun nationalism thereby also ensuring that the current Afghan security establishments don’t become a further tool to be used against Pakistan, forcing them to deploy their armies in the defence of two borders.

So what is India doing to prevent a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan?

India is following a three-fold approach:

- Training Afghan National Security Forces to fight the Taliban.
- Encouraging economic investment in the Afghan government to enable them to raise tax revenue to fund the fight against the Taliban.
- Helping support the functioning of the Afghan government in a variety of ways – training officials, building the National Parliament building and many other programmes designed to deliver effective governance to the people of Afghanistan.

India has already trained hundreds of mid-level Afghan military officers according to analysts, and this now appears to be escalating. India has agreed to train 600 officers every year since the visit of President Karzai, and in addition will also help train companies (100 men) of ANA soldiers in order to develop the cohesion of ANA units.

In addition to this, Indian Air Force pilots will help train their counterparts in the ANSF to support operations. Efforts will only increase over the next few years to ensure that a viable and sustainable government stays put in Kabul. But India can and needs to do more in Afghanistan.

Solutions for a global problem

A return of the Taliban after 2014 will mean that jihadis battling US/ISAF troops will now look around for a new focus and this is likely to be regional hotspots – J&K, Chechnya, Iran, Xinjiang amongst others. Of most concern to India is obviously J&K. Thankfully our security establishment is preparing for such a flare up post 2014. However, an escalation in J&K or at the Indian Line of Control will mean all the hard work of improving the economy and weaning away jihadists over the last ten years could go to waste. Perhaps another Kargil could be planned by Pakistan, in which thousands of lives and billions of dollars are spent on fighting each other which could be devoted to improving the lives of citizens.

However, India at the moment has chosen a bilateral approach together with Russia and Iran to discuss Afghanistan at a National Security Council level. But it is important to remind security establishments worldwide that a Taliban return is a problem for everyone. India has an opportunity to lead a regional and even global partnership effort to support the Afghan government. This will have to involve economic and military aid.

Rawalpindi fears

The Pakistani position is that India’s close relations with Afghanistan stems from India’s ambition to encircle Pakistan. But it’s never too late to remind the Pakistani’s that they continue to support terrorist acts in India and have used Afghanistan as a base for attacks against India. Nations have two choices – cooperation or conflict. Despite the continued acts of terrorism supported by the Pakistani military – India has made every attempt to seek cooperation –as is proved by the Sharm El Sheikh agreement delinking terror from bilateral relations (despite lack of support for this from the Indian public). Despite these efforts, we look across the border and we see the terror infrastructure largely intact. To date, the Pakistani Army has not revised its doctrine of ‘strategic depth’ in Afghanistan – a view we share with the US and its allies.

During the Taliban-controlled Afghanistan years, Pakistan left their northern borders largely undefended while a major proportion of Pakistani military resources were used to support their military on the borders with India.

Eventually, India will be forced to take the view that the continued support of terror by Pakistan will have to be met with a longterm response. That response is likely to involve supporting the Afghan government with military supplies (thus far India has refrained from doing so despite Afghan requests in the hope that Pakistan will maybe opt for cooperation instead of conflict) and even a military presence that ensures that Pakistan will have to guard their northern borders. Guarding their northern borders will mean deploying their meagre resources towards developing new infrastructure, more weapons and leaving the southern borders much less defended. This will make Pakistan vulnerable. This weakness is likely to result in Pakistan having to stop their terror support activities due to lack of resources and also to the absence of resources enabling their defence against any Indian military retaliation.

To conclude, India is likely to revisit their decision not to supply the ANSF with offensive weapons in 2014, if Pakistan continues to support terrorism on Indian soil. In the coming year, the PM of India, Manmohan Singh should also consider having a serious dialogue with the military leaders of Pakistan offering a no-war agreement in exchange for total cessation of support for terror.

This can only be secured with the support of Pakistan’s close allies – the GCC, China and the USA. This is precisely the reason why Indian strategists have done well to open a good line of communication between these three parties. Whether Pakistan will agree to such a proposal remains to be seen. The ball is in Pakistan’s court: will Pakistan decide between cooperation or conflict?

India must also take on a global leadership role, providing both economic and military aid together with regional/global partners in support of the Afghan government. A failure to do this could cost citizens in the region very dearly.
Last edited by shyamd on 08 Aug 2013 02:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Anindya » 08 Aug 2013 02:09

I'm not sure why its so hard to point out, that with very little investments and country specific concessions, India can easily cripple the textile industry in Pakistan, for example.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Peregrine » 08 Aug 2013 02:36

Eleven killed in Lyari blast targeting MPA Javed Nagori
KARACHI : At least 11 people killed, including children, and 26 people were injured when a bomb went off outside a packed football ground in the densely populated area of Lyari in Karachi early on Wednesday morning, Express News reported.

The majority of the dead and injured included children between the ages of six and 16. Some were even still in their football kits.

“The bomb was planted on a motorbike that was parked outside the stadium, killing seven, many of them teenage boys,” police official Tariq Dharejo told AFP. He confirmed that the bomb was a remote controlled device.

Cheers Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Philip » 08 Aug 2013 03:27

The security in J&K should be further ramped up,with large scale infrastructure development which will have both eco and mil. benefits.The railway extension is a plus point.What should further be done is to set up a string of heavily defended large "forts/cantonements" in J&K,manned by the forces,designed with features to deter and defeat terror attacks and which could also house a large number of civilians supporting the mil. forces,encouraging a return of the Kashmiri Pandits.These walled settlements,like Roman encampments could encompass hillsides,have underground bunkers,caverns for mil.ware and provide safe shelters for command centres and the population in the event of a larger conflict.The beautiful gardens of the Valley surrounding Dal Lake,Shalimar,Nishat,Chasma Shahi,could be inspirations for the same.Just look at the aesthetics of the Red Fort and Agra Fort! We are a nation of great fort builders,from Rajput,Moghul and Mahratta times.The country is strewn with forts wherever one travels. Linked to each other by roads,perhaps rail and by helicopters,strategically located,heavily defended,they could further defeat Pak's perfidious plans to destabilise J&K.

The only thing stopping India from increasing mil. aid to the Afghan regime is the utter fear in the dhotis of Singh,Salman and AKA of angering the Paki military and establishment and upsetting the heavily loaded "apple cart" ,the "p*ss offering" ,that they hope will win them the forthcoming elections.Agreements on Sir Creek and other goodies for Pak have been meticulously planned in advance of the elections,a great signing ceremony,plus the ig-Nobel prize for Dr.Snake-oil,as promised by Uncle Sam for his ignominious display of servilitude and lackey-loyalty ,in his decade long efforts at promoting US interests in India and the region.

There is certainly a long list of hardware that we can offer the Afghans,from old artillery,tanks,mortars,small arms and ammo,to newer items like missiles and helos.The Russians and Northern Alliance could also chip in with their ex-Soviet hardware which the Afghans are familiar with,plus force-multiplying MBRLs which can be devastating against geurilla forces of the Taliban,as the LTTE found out the hard way in Sri Lanka.Aviation assets like Dhruvs,Chetaks,etc. will be of great value,as well as Russian supplied MI-8/17s,which all nations found to be the best helo in the Af-Pak conflict.Training of afghan forces is already on,larger numbers need to be trained to operate any weaponry that we might deliver.

But we must be most careful not to get sucked into the Afghan imbroglio on the ground as the Brits,Russians and Yanquis have been victims of.If the US wants to exit with honour,they should pay India "strategic partner" for all supplies of weaponry,support,etc.,to the Karzai regime.Pak though,has to be encircled with anti-Pak forces like Iran,Afghanistan and the Northern nations,so that it is kept off-balance in its attempt to wrest J&K from us.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2013 03:57

Indian allegations can harm peace process, says Nisar

Kutte Ki Poonch and Pakistani Dimag

ISLAM BAD: Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan Wednesday said unnecessary blame game unleashed by India would harm peace initiatives and efforts of improving bilateral relations between the two countries.
In a statement, he said Pakistan wants peace which could only be achieved by promoting bilateral relations. Such propaganda tactics and unnecessary allegations can harm peace process, which is not in favour of both the countries.The minister Pakistan must not be blamed for India’s internal weaknesses. The unnecessary hue and cry of India and its media against Pakistan is incomprehensible, he added.India had lodged a diplomatic protest with Pakistan over an attack on an army post in the disputed Kashmir region in which five of its soldiers were killed on Tuesday.According to Indian spokesman the killing incident occurred five kilometers inside Line of Control. The question is how Pakistan Army reached five kilometer inside LoC, in a high security zone and vigilance of Indian Army, he inquired.An attack at such a sensitive place was nearly impossible, he said and added, it is mere propaganda of the Indians that Pakistan Army has intruded inside the LoC.“Even if a cracker goes off in India, Pakistan is blamed for it,” the minister said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2013 04:05

Damaged Hoors

Flaring tempers: Pakistan protests mob attack on its mission in India
The opposition Bharatiya Janata Party filed a privilege motion against Antony and demanded that talks with Pakistan be called off.“I had issued a breach of privilege notice against the defence minister for misleading the house and altering the statement of Indian Army. According to this, he was not behaving like the defence minister of India, but rather as that of Pakistan and I brought this up in parliament. The statement was changed after the approval of the prime minster,” said senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha.Sinha said there was a massive inconsistency in the account of Antony and the defence ministry. While Antony’s said persons ‘dressed in Pakistan Army uniforms’ were involved in the ambush, the defence ministry said “a patrol of Indian Army comprising of one non-commissioned officer and five other ranks was ambushed by a Pak Border Action Team close to the LoC in Poonch Sector of Jammu and Kashmir early morning”.In his defence in the upper house, Antony said: “When as defence minister I make a statement in parliament, I have to clarify on whatever information I have. Today, the Indian army chief has gone to the area, let him come back. If there are some other details, I will convey to you.”On the other hand, Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid sought to downplay the implications of the incident. “We don’t want to create a situation that is detrimental and destructive for India’s security and peace,” he said.But he added it was ‘too early’ to say now whether the planned meeting between Premiers Nawaz Sharif and Manmohan Singh on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in September would still take place.He insisted Islamabad must take responsibility for the attack. “Pakistan is accountable whatever happens, the distinction between state and non-state actors is not a distinction that we accept,” he told India’s NDTV network.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2013 04:12

Foreign Speach

India, Pak can't treat each other as untouchables: Khur shi

Khurshid said the UPA had not fallen asleep at the foreign policy wheel.
Khurshid said that the rise in the number of incursions along the LoC had not gone unnoticed and reiterated that the government would act in the national interest. According to him, all the diplomatic processes that can be used in such a situation have been put in motion and Pakistan has been made aware of India's concerns. The next step, he said, was to wait for Pakistan's response and then evaluate the situation at that time."We have a categorical commitment from Pakistan that they will not allow their territory to be used for attacks on India," Khurshid said. "We expect them to deliver on this commitment."Refusing to be drawn into specifics because of the current session of Parliament, the minister completely rejected the opposition's stand that AK Anthony's statement in Parliament left Pakistan with an escape route."He made what was in the circumstances the most prudent and careful and sensible statement based on facts that were available to him at that time,"He reiterated that the government is taking the situation seriously though it would not be deciding on a course of action in one night. "We can't just shut our eyes to it," Khursheed said. "We can't proceed as if nothing has happened. We have taken some steps. Let's see what the response to those are."
Following Khurshid's comments, former Army chief General VP Malik told CNN-IBN during a panel discussion on the issue that it was unbelievable that Pakistan could have no knowledge of the attack because of the proximity of the two forces in that part of the Line of Control."This ambush took place in an area where there are Pakistan and Indian troops facing each other at a distance of 200 or 250 yards," Malik said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby RamaY » 08 Aug 2013 04:25

^ True. Only Pakistan is untouchable Mr KHar Shit.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby RamaY » 08 Aug 2013 05:17

AK Antony did a chanikian move on Pakis... With on TSUchiyapanti comment he made entire TSPA a terrorist group in army uniform.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2013 05:51

Bottom Line: It is clear to me that the defence of India now lies in Afghanistan, Balochistan, K'rachi and Iran. Then there are these burning Free Gilgit/Baltistan and Sindhudesh opportunities that will require another look.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby vishvak » 08 Aug 2013 07:07

If you look at our Foreign minister's and paki minister's statement, we have to be doing a guilt trip after our soldiers are killed within our own borders by a bunch of terrorists invading the country. No one is explaining, least of all paki minister or FM from UPA that paki army allowed the terrorists to cross over and kill. On the top we also have to worry more ie about future safe withdrawal of US forces that too through puki lands and so on and so forth.

Since USA can't do anything other than putting pressure on Indians post-terror attack, we may as well directly demand monies for families of jawans killed from USA in $$ terms, "per head". We don't have to ask if the guns used by the puki army were made in USA or if the terrorists were trained by CIA. Why should we make USA uncomfortable for their troubles tomorrow if we can swallow a terrorist attack today?

At least we are ready to talk peace with barbarians, which is criteria to qualify us as civilized enough.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 07:10

anupmisra wrote:Bottom Line: It is clear to me that the defence of India now lies in Afghanistan, Balochistan, K'rachi and Iran. Then there are these burning Free Gilgit/Baltistan and Sindhudesh opportunities that will require another look.

anupmisra, for this type of determination to be made, India must at last admit that all its efforts with Pakistan have failed, there is no way we can establish a normal state-to-state relationship even if differences persist, Pakistan is irretrievably lost to jihadists and their supporters, a nuclear-armed Pakistan derives support from rogue nations and that such support is aimed at India through Pakistan, that such a support will not diminish in any foreseeable future, that India has suffered much more with its benign attitude towards Pakistan than by making an all-out effort to deal effectively with it in all spheres, that Indian interests are paramount than those of anybody else and no other factors (such as vote-bank politics, religious appeasement, interference by the US) would be allowed to play any part in GoI's Indian stance vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Until there is a firm determination on the above lines, there is no redemption for us. If our response to 1993, Kargil, Kandahar hijacking, Parliament attack, various coordinated multi-city bomb blasts, Mumbai commuter train attack, 26/11 etc is anything to go by, we can be certain that the loss of the five bravehearts would be definitely in vain.

What is this excuse profferred by Salman Kurshid and Man Mohan Singh, that we should talk to Nawaz Sharif and strengthen his democratic hand ? His PML-N is a closet (even an open) jihadi organization by openly having an alliance with the SSP. His party allocated through the budget funds for LeT and even justifies it. His brother, the Punjab CM, asks the Punjabi Taliban not to target the Punjab because they have identical views with them. Whom are the GoI kidding ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby abhishek_sharma » 08 Aug 2013 08:05

Govt almost ambushed

Image
The grieving family of slain Army jawan Vijay Kumar Rai in Bihta, Bihar, Wednesday.

The decision to change the Army inputs on the involvement of Pakistan army regulars in Tuesday's attack on the Line of Control that killed five Indian soldiers was taken at the highest level in a bid to insulate the first meeting of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh with just elected Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on the margins of the UN General Assembly at New York in late September at this delicate juncture in the relationship.

Given the ambiguity over the identity of the attackers in the dead of night on LoC, sources said, it was felt that pointing fingers at the Pakistan Army should be avoided without any direct evidence. It's learnt that this was decided after consultations at senior bureaucratic levels in South Block including the National Security Adviser and the defence secretary.

While some officials said that the stock line on violence along LoC always blames the Pak army, sources said, caution was advised in the absence of any clear proof.

However, sources said, the government was caught in a bind after the BJP stepped up pressure and called for stopping the dialogue with Pakistan. This was reaffirmed forcefully by the BJP top brass at today's meeting with the Prime Minister.

The problem for the government, sources said, is that it stalled the dialogue process over the beheading of an Indian soldier in January when the government went on record to blame Pakistan Army regulars. A similar admission this time would have strengthened the BJP's demand to withhold talks, a "strategically undesirable" objective for the government as it does not want to accentuate acrimony with Pakistan's new government.

Moreover, sources said, blaming the Pakistan Army would force Sharif to take a hard stand against India, which would virtually derail the peace process at this crucial juncture.

But with the BJP drawing a red line on its demand for a clarification by Defence Minister A K Antony, the government is now looking to make the point that it's not absolving the Pak Army but is awaiting more evidence. In this context, Army Chief Bikram Singh's feedback would be crucial as it would indicate the nature of evidence available to level charges against Pakistan.

Meanwhile, the BJP top brass — Rajnath Singh, LK Advani, Sushma Swaraj and Arun Jaitley — raised their strong objection to what they called was Antony's alleged "dilution" of the statement to provide an "escape route" to Pakistan. They reiterated their demands of an apology from Antony and a suspension of talks with Pakistan at their meeting with PM.

"It was made plain and clear (at the meeting) that Defence Minister will have to withdraw his earlier statement and present a correct statement before both the Houses regarding the LoC incident," said a BJP source. "This is not time to hold a dialogue. Certainly not at the level of Prime Minister."

The Government side, led by the Prime Minister, was learnt to have said that "greater clarity" was expected after the Army Chief returns from the front.

The Prime Minister was learnt to have sought the BJP's cooperation on the issue of the land boundary agreement with Bangladesh but BJP leaders were learnt to have refrained from committing their support and instead suggested that the government should get all stakeholders (West Bengal, North-East) on board before considering a Constitution amendment.

"The government should first make it (agreement) palatable to the people," the BJP leaders were learnt to have told the government in response to the PM's appeal for cooperation. "Otherwise, a Telangana-like situation may erupt there as well."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Vikas » 08 Aug 2013 09:16

Is Land boundary agreement another under the table way of donating more land to BD ?
Why cooperate with a PM whose whole sole agenda is to just goto NY and meet NS, dead soldiers be damned.

Moreover, sources said, blaming the Pakistan Army would force Sharif to take a hard stand against India, which would virtually derail the peace process at this crucial juncture.

How pathetic that the GoI is more concerned about NS who is surely going to stab us in the back once again than the dead soldiers who gave their lives to our thankless nation.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Philip » 08 Aug 2013 09:32

AS many have said on national TV,the "Silence from the PM is deafening!" Despite this being such an emotive issue,coming just months after the beheading of Indian soldiers and continued cross-border terroism,the silence of the PM speaks volumes.

Evidence being shown on one channel indicates an astonishing fact,that the original Army report and first MOD report,which was almost identical was altered after the visit of the Paki Dy.HC! The report was sent to the NSA allegedly and the watered down version which was given to AKA came afterwards.There is no evidence to show that AKA was aware of the earlier report,while he read out the altered one,but such an important communication from the front surely would've been sent to the DM first.The shameful fact is that it was altered after ,the Paki envoy saw it.Does that mean that he suggested alterations to it,agreed by the NSA/PMO? Incredible if true!

Evidence is slowly coming out of the woodwork of the covert cosy deals between the Sherrif of Teroristan and the snake-oil fakir of India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 09:56

Philip wrote:Incredible if true!


Utterly despicable & shameful, if true.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby chetak » 08 Aug 2013 10:03

How saintly is St Antony??

Overnight genius

By any reckoning, AK Antony’s sole claim to fame is that he is financially clean in a party which is teeming with the corrupt. That is why eyebrows are raised in the political circles at the overnight rise of his wife as a painter of great acclaim. So much so, the Army Welfare Fund has paid a pretty penny to acquire some of her artworks. One is reminded of a Finance Minister in the 1980s, whose wife had overnight emerged as a great singer, with an up-and-coming industrial group and even organising a European concert for her. Similar stories abound about someone closely linked to the Delhi Chief Minister. But, truly, we are surprised about Saint Antony. Reportedly, several public undertakings too seemed to have purchased Mrs Antony ’ paintings.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Sushupti » 08 Aug 2013 10:44

Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby habal » 08 Aug 2013 10:48

Once the UP chief secretary's wife held a painting exhibition (her works) in IHC. Was visited and keenly attended by all the UP civil contractors, their wives, business houses, diplomats, military attaches and so on. There was like a stampede outside to view her at-best mediocre painting effort. Her paintings were all sold-out in an hour flat. Satish Gujral who was having an exhibition nearby also visited the exhibition and showed 'keen interest'. In a nearby building a few struggling arts students (ex-Sahitya Kala or Lalit Kala academy) were also holding an exhibition and somehow knew Gujral requested him, nay begged him, to pay them a visit but he shrugged and refused to entertain their overtures and walked away to the already 'fully sold-out' UP Chief Secretary's wife's exhibition.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby chetak » 08 Aug 2013 11:30

habal wrote:Once the UP chief secretary's wife held a painting exhibition (her works) in IHC. Was visited and keenly attended by all the UP civil contractors, their wives, business houses, diplomats, military attaches and so on. There was like a stampede outside to view her at-best mediocre painting effort. Her paintings were all sold-out in an hour flat. Satish Gujral who was having an exhibition nearby also visited the exhibition and showed 'keen interest'. In a nearby building a few struggling arts students (ex-Sahitya Kala or Lalit Kala academy) were also holding an exhibition and somehow knew Gujral requested him, nay begged him, to pay them a visit but he shrugged and refused to entertain their overtures and walked away to the already 'fully sold-out' UP Chief Secretary's wife's exhibition.


There's always more that one way to skin the cat, no??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Agnimitra » 08 Aug 2013 12:30

What is behind this "Great Afghanistan Movement" (GAM) and PakhtunTV?

"GAM: Birth and Death of Pakistan"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoELwPhnal0

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Patni » 08 Aug 2013 12:33

Pakistan army involved in killing of Indian soldiers: Defence Minister AK Antony

After being attacked by the Opposition for letting Pakistan off the hook for the deadly ambush on five Indian soldiers in Kashmir this week, Defence Minister AK Antony today issued a new statement on the attack in Parliament, and indicted the Pakistani Army.

The minister said that "specialist troops" of the Pakistani Army were responsible for the killings.

"We all know nothing happens along the Line of Control without the support...direct involvement of the Pak Army," he said. Leader of the Opposition Sushma Swaraj said she welcomes his new statement, suggesting a possible end to the huge stand-off between her party and the government over Mr Antony's original assessment of how the Indians were killed.

The opposition demanded first an apology and then a revised statement from Mr Antony, who on Wednesday, stopped short of blaming the Pakistani army and attributed the assault to "men in Pakistani army uniforms."

The Defence Minister was contradicted by his own ministry, whose statement directly attributed the attack to the Pakistani Army. That press release was later withdrawn, and the Defence Ministry and army said that the minister's account was correct.

The opposition said that the minister had "given Pakistan a clean chit" and had forced the army to censor the facts. Today's account by the minister is based, he said, on inputs from Army Chief General Bikram Singh who visited Kashmir yesterday.

The government has been keen to prevent the crisis from derailing attempts to revive peace talks with Pakistan. The BJP's senior leaders warned the Prime Minister at a meeting on Wednesday evening that "the country is not in the mood to see him embrace Nawaz Sharif," the newly-elected Prime Minister of Pakistan.

The two leaders were expected to meet on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in New York next month.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Aug 2013 13:12

so this is kiyani sending a shot across the bows of sharief to not make too many peacenik noises with india or else...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Anujan » 08 Aug 2013 13:28

Nobody is sending a shot across anyone's bow.

Pakistan estabilishment has always been clear about its goals. Send terrorists into Afghanistan, send terrorists into India. It is the Indian government who wants to talk peace. With whom, I have no idea. The civilian setup of Pakistan is essentially a powerless independently functioning entity that is totally irrelevant to India-Pakistan peace or otherwise.
Last edited by Anujan on 08 Aug 2013 13:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Narad » 08 Aug 2013 13:30

Pak army involved in LoC attack, Antony says

NEW DELHI: The resumption of the composite dialogue process with Pakistan could now be put on hold after defence minister A K Antony told Parliament on Thursday that the killing of five Indian soldiers "will have consequences on our behaviour on the line of control and for our relations with Pakistan".

Faced with a blistering attack by opposition MPs for giving an escape route to Pakistan by the earlier contradictory statements on the well-planned ambush in Poonch sector of J&K on Tuesday, Antony made a clear-cut strong statement in Lok Sabha. "The brutal and unprovoked attack on an Indian patrol on our side of LoC on August 6, 2013 outraged us all.

When I reported the incident to the House (earlier), it was the government's obligation to report the facts as we knew them at that point of time, and my statement was based on the available information,"he said. Since then Army chief General Bikram Singh has visited the area and gone into the details of the matter, said the minister, adding, "It is now clear that the specialist troops of Pakistan army were involved in this attack when a group from the Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir crossed the LoC and killed our brave jawans. We all know that nothing happens from Pakistan side of the LoC without support, assistance, facilitation and often, direct involvement of the Pakistan Army."

"Those in Pakistan who are responsible for this tragedy and the brutal killing of two soldiers earlier this year should not go unpunished. Pakistan should also show determined action to dismantle the terrorist networks, organizations and infrastructure and show tangible movement on bringing those responsible for the Mumbai terrorist attack in November 2008 to justice quickly," said Antony. "Naturally, this incident will have consequences on our behaviour on the line of control and for our relations with Pakistan. Our restraint should not be taken for granted; nor should the capacity of our armed forces and resolve of the government to uphold the sanctity of the LoC ever be doubted," he added.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 14:10

One should expect an arrogant warning from the PA now. Their tail is up because of the US.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Anujan » 08 Aug 2013 14:17

^^^
They are known to count their chicken before they hatch.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby anandsgh » 08 Aug 2013 16:12

Karma Catching up but not quite yet.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1034975/blast- ... r-official
24 get their 72 but I want to add a wishful factor of 100.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby harbans » 08 Aug 2013 17:17

Suicide Bomber targets Policemans funderal: 29 Dead

The Iraqi style of blood letting is catching up in Shitistan. Kill a score or 2 then when the funeral is going on..target that too.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Comer » 08 Aug 2013 17:18

Apparently the deadline for Nobel Peace prize is February each year. If the Ambition is thwarted for the next six or months, the ship of the state is in safer territory.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 17:32

US Calls for India-Pak Dialogue
“We understand that the governments of India and Pakistan are in contact over the issue, and we continue to encourage, of course, further dialogue, and we think that’s the best step to resolve,” State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki told reporters at her daily news conference.


We are equally concerned about Pres. Obama's calling off meeting with Putin over the Snowden affair. We encourage further dialogue between Obama & Putin as we think that's the best step to resolve.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 17:34

saravana wrote:Apparently the deadline for Nobel Peace prize is February each year. If the Ambition is thwarted for the next six or months, the ship of the state is in safer territory.

saravana, I am not too sure that it is only the next six months that we need to worry about. But, certainly, we need to thwart for the next six months. May Allah be on our side.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby manjgu » 08 Aug 2013 17:35

so was this a attack on a post or an ambush of a patrol party??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Comer » 08 Aug 2013 17:36

Especially between two nuclear armed countries. We should open our good offices to them to broker peace.
Spoken like a true Psaki.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby CRamS » 08 Aug 2013 17:45

For all this despicable cretins in India, from DDM, to MSA to JM who advocate this cowardly rubbish that talks with TSP abomination must go on, or else there will be war, here is a hard-hitting piece by my man Minhaz Merchant on how to deal with TSP short of war

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... an-to-heel

Only disagreement I have with his excellent piece is that the so called US-led international community is not going to back India. They will constantly push us to give legitimacy and equivalence to TSP

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_26255 » 08 Aug 2013 18:33

India halts dialogue process with Pakistan: Indian media

http://www.geo.tv/article-112874-India- ... dian-media

NEW DELHI: Indian media claimed on Thursday that the country has halted dialogue process with Pakistan while Indian Minister of External Affairs Salman Khurshid told that it is before time to say anything yet, Geo News reported.

According to the India media reports, Pakistan-India talks over several issues including the controversial Sir Creek have been discontinued.

It is pertinent to mention here that Indian government alleged today that specialist troops from Pakistan's army were involved in a deadly attack on its troops in Kashmir, in its first direct accusation of Pakistani military complicity.

Defence Minister A. K. Antony also hinted at stronger military action along the Line of Control (LoC) in the disputed Himalayan region where an ambush overnight on Monday saw five Indian soldiers killed.

"Nothing happens from Pakistan's side of the LoC without the support, assistance, facilitation and often direct involvement of the Pakistan army," he said.

Antony's strongly worded statement comes after the opposition angrily accused the minister of deliberately choosing not to blame the Pakistani army for the attack, amid attempts to revive peace talks with Pakistan.

Analysts have said the attack had complicated efforts to arrange a meeting between India's veteran Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his new Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif.

"Naturally, this incident will have consequences on our behaviour on the LoC and for our relationship with Pakistan," Antony said.

"Our restraint should not be taken for granted nor the capacity of our armed forces and resolve of the government to afford the sanctity of the LoC ever be doubted."

While Indian military sources said Tuesday Pakistani troops were behind the attack, Antony would only say in a statement the same day that it was carried out by men wearing Pakistani uniforms.

Pakistan has denied any part in the incident, but India has lodged an official protest with Islamabad for what is one of the worst losses of life for the Indian army since a 2003 truce agreement.

Antony made his statement after receiving the latest briefing Thursday from Army Chief General Bikram Singh over the attack.


Seems too good to be true.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2013 18:44

manjgu wrote:so was this a attack on a post or an ambush of a patrol party??

Weren't the five martyred Indian soldiers on a patrol ? What is your doubt ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby sum » 08 Aug 2013 20:06

^^ Initial reports had mentioned a post being stormed. Seems that was false info since a area domination team was ambushed on a routine patrol


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