Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 15 Aug 2013 14:43

After the Commander-in-Chief's stern warning yesterday about Indian patience, it is now the turn of the Prime Minister. Mr. Man Mohan Singh has for the hundredth time vowed to "take all possible steps to prevent such incidents in the future".

Now, take that you PA Generals and jihadist leaders. What are you going to do after this ? Doesn't it send a chill down your spine, I ask you.

PS: Mr. Man Mohan Singh, by proposing to take action only in the future, has already pardoned the long-lost prodigal younger brothers of their over enthusiasm in Poonch on Aug 5-6 night. This means that he *shall* meet Nawaz Sharif in New York next month. The hedging and hawing by arrogant Kurshid on this issue with Arnab yesterday is another pointer.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Comer » 15 Aug 2013 15:03

SSridhar wrote:PS: Mr. Man Mohan Singh, by proposing to take action only in the future, has already pardoned the long-lost prodigal younger brothers

SSridhar, I think you are being too charitable to MMS. He didnt say he will take action. He will only try his best to prevent something in the future. It some accidents happen, he will try again in the future. :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby jagga » 15 Aug 2013 15:55

Three Indian Army jawans injured in fresh Pak firing at LoC
JAMMU: Three Army jawans were injured on Thursday in Pakistani firing on forward posts along the LoC in Balakote area of Poonch district in J&K, an Army official said.


This after MMS speech form Red Fort!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Patni » 15 Aug 2013 16:06

IMHO, NaMo's very public pointing out of spineless response, to paki perfidy, by our PM, has made it very difficult for current GoI, to pretend its business as usual with pakis. At least all the news channels are now starting to openly question current paki policy and will make it that much harder for PMO to do repeat of Sharm el - sheikh or so one hopes.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 15 Aug 2013 16:11

jagga wrote:This after MMS speech form Red Fort!

So, Saravana's iterative process will be applied by MMS. MMS has an opportunity to keep his promise of doing something only the 'next time'. None thought it would come so soon. Anyway, Salman Kurshid, the Oxford Blue, will score debating points (and smile smugly at his intellectual superiority to ordinary mortals) if asked, and claim that PM's promise of action was only if there were some unfortunate fatalities.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 15 Aug 2013 16:50

They just opened fire in Mehndar sector of Poonch. Firing still on. Indian response with "Heavy Caliber weapons"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_22872 » 15 Aug 2013 18:11

Heavy Caliber Weapons

Anything less than 2m diameter is waste of time.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SBajwa » 15 Aug 2013 19:47

line up the pinaka and bofors along the Kashmir-Punjab-Rajasthan-Gujarat border and start lobbing shells into Pindi, Muzaffrabad, Lahore, Sialkote, kasur, multan and karachi.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby SSridhar » 15 Aug 2013 19:56

Bajwa saheb, our Masters would be pi**ed off, won't they ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 15 Aug 2013 21:50

vishvak wrote:^^About "world political situation", how fair is it for US, EU and many other countries to link trade deals with na-pak peace process? What are details here and what are guarantees offered in this arbitrary linking? If it is unfair at its base then who enforces any such guarantees and what happens if purvayers of arbitrary links themselves won't make pakis go wild for blackmailing Indians indirectly??

These countries themselves go to war so have we linked our food exports to world peace yet - can't Indians "impose things" on others in the name of peace even when others do?

How long will these arbitrary deals last in the first place when linked arbitrarily with na-pak peace process? Or are those instrument to blackmail more than trade deals because of its artificial links that our FM could have readily agreed to? Who would benefit from these unfair conditions?

That's just the way it goes - for India they link Indo Pak peace process for our trade deals, with others it's human rights, financial reforms etc. before serious negotiations took place EU sent a fact finding mission to Kashmir. The report was in our favour and they criticised pak role. Mushy was upset.

Fact of the matter is India has zero leverage. So it's easy for us to blame the govt but this is the reality. Who will benefit? People like accountants and doctors who will be able to practice with less restrictions, exporters. They'll get a one up over PRC, who don't have this agreement.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_22872 » 15 Aug 2013 22:05

'Pakistan, a gift from Allah'
Pakistan is a gift from Allah, a Jamaat-e-Islami leader has said adding that the country would mark real freedom when Islamic Shariah (law) was enforced, Daily Times reported Thursday.

Speaking during a flag-hoisting ceremony on Pakistan's Independence Day (Aug 14) in the port city of Karachi, Mumtaz Sahto said the country would mark real freedom when Islamic Shariah (law) would be enforced and that his party -- Jamaat-e-Islami -- was carrying on a struggle for the same.

He also said that the country came into being after countless sacrifices rendered by Muslims of the sub-continent and everyone has to play their role for the country's bright future.

But the sacrifices were made for Indian Independence struggle not TSP's. You guys got your moth eaten country after diving India.
Last edited by member_22872 on 15 Aug 2013 22:08, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby harbans » 15 Aug 2013 22:05

Shyam ji, for some reason many Indians and the whole lot of our leadership with the exception of NM has somehow bought the lie that there is some form of virtue in consensus. The whole approach is building and working on it/ a LCD of contrasting opinions. This helps in avoiding the nitty gritty of being decisive and visionary. Thus when we deal with nations we don't put up our stand strongly. We assume we can cope with say not claiming POK or Aksai China and lets assume it would be too hard on Paki's and Chinese if we put it across the table. They nibble away and we try and reach and build some goody goody kind of consensus around that. NM changes that equation. He has a vision, he puts that forward and builds on it by convincing the opposition that this stance makes sense. If at all there would be some compromise, it will not be one that he would be agreeable to. India meanwhile tries and builds a consensus around compromised frontlines (Not a blade of grass grows, why stoke trouble claiming POK or Aksai etc). And when we try and build that consensus we are agreeable to it's outcomes. That's why JLN, ABV just agreed to Chinese aggression of Tibet and now we are struggling why Chinese don't seem agreeable to our consensus approach. This must be understood properly to know why we have been going wrong. If one does not have a vision then the consensus approach seems easy for administrative purposes. If one has a vision then it's a bane.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 15 Aug 2013 22:26

Harbans ji, can I clarify what you are saying with regards to consensus and how NM is different?
Thanks

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby svenkat » 15 Aug 2013 22:34

shyamdji,
you deserve appreciation for giving informed view of the official line.More importantly,its a snap shot of Indian reality.I do not know how on earth one man is going to change human nature,history etc.The only hope lies in NM building on the socialcoalitions by Congress,by carefully weeding out the chaff,the diseased elements and the goods which are beyond the sell by date,while replenishing it with vigorous and healthy elements.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby harbans » 15 Aug 2013 22:51

Harbans ji, can I clarify what you are saying with regards to consensus and how NM is different?


I assume you want me to clarify. Our top governing people have developed a sort of over reliance on a consensus approach. At times it is nothing but finding the LCD (lowest Common Denominator) of assorted groups' opinions and forming some kind of agreement for all based on that. That does not satisfy anyone's palate really. Yet it provides an escape for the coordinator (leaders in this instance) to escape having a vision and by logic/ reason/ rationale/ persuasion convincing assorted opinions that this is the better option without the necessary dilutions that consensus brings about. We do that a lot in our national politics and we have done that in our dealings with other nations too.

An Indo-Pak example: We (our leaders) reject those that want to claim POK in talks with Pakistan as hardliners and say we will be agreeable to start our negotiating points with Pak on internationalizing the LOC. We in the same breath say hardliners must be kept out. At the same instance the Paks also say the same thing over Kebabs and track 2 biryani's yet beat about India making compromises in the Valley and more. So while this is a hot potato not easily to even develop a consensus, we have been seen to be soft to be willing to compromise. The only thing coming in the way to consensus is some 'hardliners' in India. So the GoI institutional setup is inclined against those that want to disturb India's first step consensus approach in not asking for POK. Pakistan meanwhile is free and it is acceptable to us for them to making claims on our territory.

An Indo China example: India starts off without claiming Aksai. We say lets develop a consensus approach to our Indo-China borders. Let us agree on something. Let us not be ridden by 'hardline' positions, we must develop a consensus both of us agree on. We are sincere and friendly. Thus our CBM is we don't rake Tibet at all. We keep the DL at bay or other strategists who ask to claim Tibet or call Chinese presence there of the aggressor. We are eager to get some agreeable consensus, rather than put uncomfortable claims to the other party objectively across the table. While we do this, we reject those amongst us who want Aksai Chin or even KM and certainly Tibet as an independent identity of China as 'hardliners', precisely because we want some magic consensus we can agree on and sign some dotted line. JLN and ABV did exactly that. And as CBMs to the Chinese signed Tibet away, signed KM and Shiva away, signed off the source of all major water systems to India away. Just to try and appease an agreeable consensus with the Chinese.

Our penchant for trying and building up an agreeable consensus is opposed to making a stance even if it looks 'hardline' and putting that objectively across the table. IN our eagerness to develop an agreeable consensus we cut down our own legitimate aspirations as a hardliner position. The Chinese and Paki's don't operate that way.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 15 Aug 2013 23:24

svenkat wrote:shyamdji,
you deserve appreciation for giving informed view of the official line.More importantly,its a snap shot of Indian reality.I do not know how on earth one man is going to change human nature,history etc.The only hope lies in NM building on the socialcoalitions by Congress,by carefully weeding out the chaff,the diseased elements and the goods which are beyond the sell by date,while replenishing it with vigorous and healthy elements.

Thank you for your interest. Something I keep saying before is GoI won't discuss everything in public on strategy with Pak/PRC or any other country. If you saw both Khurshid's interview with Thapar and Arnab - Khurshid's reply was exactly the same on the subject.

I hope NM comes to power - I have faith that he will sort out the domestic politics and economy out. He will win if he stands for PM position without much doubt.

But I'm afraid when it comes to TSP and foreign policy a lot of people will be disappointed.
Last edited by shyamd on 15 Aug 2013 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 15 Aug 2013 23:31

harbans wrote:I assume you want me to clarify. Our top governing people have developed a sort of over reliance on a consensus approach. At times it is nothing but finding the LCD (lowest Common Denominator) of assorted groups' opinions and forming some kind of agreement for all based on that. That does not satisfy anyone's palate really. Yet it provides an escape for the coordinator (leaders in this instance) to escape having a vision and by logic/ reason/ rationale/ persuasion convincing assorted opinions that this is the better option without the necessary dilutions that consensus brings about. We do that a lot in our national politics and we have done that in our dealings with other nations too.

An Indo-Pak example: We (our leaders) reject those that want to claim POK in talks with Pakistan as hardliners and say we will be agreeable to start our negotiating points with Pak on internationalizing the LOC. We in the same breath say hardliners must be kept out. At the same instance the Paks also say the same thing over Kebabs and track 2 biryani's yet beat about India making compromises in the Valley and more. So while this is a hot potato not easily to even develop a consensus, we have been seen to be soft to be willing to compromise. The only thing coming in the way to consensus is some 'hardliners' in India. So the GoI institutional setup is inclined against those that want to disturb India's first step consensus approach in not asking for POK. Pakistan meanwhile is free and it is acceptable to us for them to making claims on our territory.

An Indo China example: India starts off without claiming Aksai. We say lets develop a consensus approach to our Indo-China borders. Let us agree on something. Let us not be ridden by 'hardline' positions, we must develop a consensus both of us agree on. We are sincere and friendly. Thus our CBM is we don't rake Tibet at all. We keep the DL at bay or other strategists who ask to claim Tibet or call Chinese presence there of the aggressor. We are eager to get some agreeable consensus, rather than put uncomfortable claims to the other party objectively across the table. While we do this, we reject those amongst us who want Aksai Chin or even KM and certainly Tibet as an independent identity of China as 'hardliners', precisely because we want some magic consensus we can agree on and sign some dotted line. JLN and ABV did exactly that. And as CBMs to the Chinese signed Tibet away, signed KM and Shiva away, signed off the source of all major water systems to India away. Just to try and appease an agreeable consensus with the Chinese.

Our penchant for trying and building up an agreeable consensus is opposed to making a stance even if it looks 'hardline' and putting that objectively across the table. IN our eagerness to develop an agreeable consensus we cut down our own legitimate aspirations as a hardliner position. The Chinese and Paki's don't operate that way.

Thanks for explaining. So correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying we are not pushing hard enough - i.e. Saying PoK is ours (loud enough) but okay we'll settle at calling LoC the IB?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby harbans » 15 Aug 2013 23:47

Thanks for explaining. So correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying we are not pushing hard enough - i.e. Saying PoK is ours (loud enough) but okay we'll settle at calling LoC the IB?


Yes Shyam Ji, that is one aspect that is the result of people that somehow assume consensus agreement is a great liberal thing to ride on. A lot of deal makers in various parties do exactly that. They possess no vision, no strategy but just go about trying as amicably to arrive at some apparently agreeable settlements. They can compromise every kind of value we all might hold sacrosanct as long as those objectives are achieved. MMS is also one of those as the SeS episode and many others show. Somehow even our Institutions have been churning such devoid of vision deal broker types right to the top. No wonder we don;t have anyone in the establishment to clamor for POK, Aksai Chin, Tibet or KM. The consensus approach makes us want to agree and say yes. It helps those that don;t have strategic visions, emotional investments in the land etc.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby pralay » 16 Aug 2013 00:06

shyamd wrote:Fact of the matter is India has zero leverage.

Why do you think we don't have leverage when all the pakistan's water goes from india?
we can:
1. Fluctuate flow of water for every cease-fire violation or terrorist attack
2. build chemical plants and release the chemical waste in the rivers which go to pakistan.

For every N violations of Cease Fire we can violate Indus Water Treaty N+1 times.

But of-course GOI need balls for this.

MMS is so much disillusioned by PISS, that he wont act unless 20-30 Congress party members or heads get killed in terrorist attack.
I always wish that the 2001 Parliament attack should have been successful and 100-150 members of parliament should have got killed. :rotfl:
Indians always need a big bang to wake up :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Harish » 16 Aug 2013 00:14

What has been the media response to this outrage so far? Have the pinkos come out in full measure? Has the RSS been mentioned in the same breath as the LeT yet? Has Saffron terror been adequately condemned?

In a way, this is a taste of things to come. The ONLY reason the pakis kept (relatively) quiet for the last 12 years was the amreeki presence. Now that they are leaving, expect more and more savagery and a return to the late-80s situation. Anyone who ever claimed the amreeki presence was a disadvantage to India need to ponder why things are happening now the way they are.

I hope the IA has added sufficient steel in the intervening years to kick some serious ass.

Added later: Far away in amrikhan and following events elsewhere in the solar system, dont have my finger on India's pulse right now.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 16 Aug 2013 00:21

Sameer The comment was a specific reply to conditions in EU/US Trade deals. Desist from picking comments out of context.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby shyamd » 16 Aug 2013 00:29

harbans wrote:Yes Shyam Ji, that is one aspect that is the result of people that somehow assume consensus agreement is a great liberal thing to ride on. A lot of deal makers in various parties do exactly that. They possess no vision, no strategy but just go about trying as amicably to arrive at some apparently agreeable settlements. They can compromise every kind of value we all might hold sacrosanct as long as those objectives are achieved. MMS is also one of those as the SeS episode and many others show. Somehow even our Institutions have been churning such devoid of vision deal broker types right to the top. No wonder we don;t have anyone in the establishment to clamor for POK, Aksai Chin, Tibet or KM. The consensus approach makes us want to agree and say yes. It helps those that don;t have strategic visions, emotional investments in the land etc.

The answer needs to be split up.

TSP: Heres the problem, TSPA is not interested in peace and don't think they ever will be. They don't pay for anything, every time TSPA creates a problem with India and then runs to 3 and a half and says hey look i need to fight a war, help me out give us your weapons and money. PRC says well I dont really want you to lose I want to keep you alive so heres a few billion $ and some JF 17s. GCC says we need TSP because of Iran, here have some free oil on the house, and a few billion $. And so the story goes on and on. Unforunately for us, we don't really have many friends to bail us out in such a manner.

TSP survives from creating trouble with us. So the question is do you want to carry on keeping TSP alive? So India going an extra mile to make them accept peace.

As for PRC - I don't know enough on the negotiations to comment.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Prem » 16 Aug 2013 00:57

As US Role in Afghanistan Winds Down, Kashmir Winds Up

Naqalchi Pro

As the Western military role in Afghanistan winds down, Pakistani militant groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba are turning their focus to India. The border between India and Pakistan in Kashmir has been unusually violent in the past few weeks, and an attempted attack on the Indian consulate in Jalalabad last week was a “message from the ISI” of more to come, an Indian security official told Reuters. These signs, Reuters says, suggest that the recently cordial relationship between the two nuclear-armed countries could turn frigid:At the core of that uncertainty is the pullback of militants from Afghanistan as U.S. forces head home. Hafiz Sayeed, founder of the LeT, has left no doubt that India’s side of Kashmir will become a target, telling an Indian weekly recently: ‘Full-scale armed Jihad (holy war) will begin soon in Kashmir after American forces withdraw from Afghanistan’.In Afghanistan, too, India and Pakistan are waging a proxy war. Pakistan “sees India’s expansive diplomacy in Afghanistan as a ploy to disrupt it from the rear as it battles its own deadly Islamist militancy and separatist forces. Vying for influence in a post-2014 Afghanistan, it worries about India’s assistance to the Afghan army, heightening a sense of encirclement.” India fears that Pakistani militants will turn their attention on Kashmir and Indian targets in Afghanistan (like the Jalalabad consulate) as soon as international troops withdraw.
All this is happening at a tense time in Kashmir, where India and Pakistan have fought several wars, and which Pakistani militants are hell-bent on liberating from Indian rule. Last Friday, soldiers on both sides of the heavily militarized border traded 7,000 rounds of mortar and gunfire. Security is tight. Both countries are in the midst of a military and naval buildup. “What should worry people in South Asia and beyond,” warns former South Asia correspondent Maya MacDonald, “is that the relative calm in India-Pakistan relations during the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan may turn out to have been the exception rather than the rule…. [T]here is almost no contingency planning for a crisis, either within South Asia or outside.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby KLNMurthy » 16 Aug 2013 01:20

VikasRaina wrote:Why is UPA political class in such a hurry to forget 26/11 and move on with this mythical peace process.
As a political party they should know that 26/11 has left deep scars in Indian psyche and any effort to sweep it under the carpet or making light of martyred soldiers in Poonch can harm them politically. Why then this desire to achieve political suicide ?
If nothing else, put this peace process in cold box.

Peace with Pakistan is not even going to fetch them any dividend nationally other than self patting of backs by RAPE Class which anyways never votes or swings votes.

OT but the DIE live in an echo chamber. They will take seemingly irrational decisions because of what is called hubris and known to us as vinasha kaale viparita buddhi.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Prem » 16 Aug 2013 04:43

Gunman demanding Sherriraat keeps capital on toes for hours
Malsi Cometh Soon

ISLAMABAD: The drama involving an armed lunatic and the apparently untrained police – staged in the high-security Red Zone of Islamabad – ended after almost six hours with the arrest of the man, who had been demanding implementation of an Islamic system in Pakistan.The episode began with the man, identified as Sikandar, waded into the Red Zone in a car at around 5pm on Thursday and opened fire, putting a question mark on the capability of police and other law enforcement agencies to control the situation.Hit by surprise following the panic created by the ‘dangerous’ man dressed in black, police and Rangers cordoned off the area and barred enter for everyone. The police also rushed towards him and tried to convince him to lay down the arms. Sikandar, in no mood of negotiating with ‘junior cops’, asked for police high-ups to come in for talks. When they did, he made a demand that stunned all those around –establishment of Shariah in Pakistan.Many senior police officials, including SSP (Operations) Dr Rizwan, and renowned politician Nabeel Gabool were also present at the scene to control the situation and persuade the man to surrender peacefully, but he refused to give up. Dr Rizwan said that the man was carrying two automatic weapons – a Kalashnikov rifle and an SMG. “I want safe passage and Islamic rule in the country,” the man demanded. “As our country is an Islamic republic, we want Shariah imposed in Pakistan,” he said in a telephonic call to a private news channel. “I am against vulgarity and immorality. My associates have taken up positions in the whole of Pakistan,” he said“Police said they were trying to tackle the situation with utmost care, as the gunman was apparently using the woman and two children as shields. But we succeeded in arresting him alive,” said Dr Rizawan while talking to the media at the climax. “The woman named Kanwal, who claims that the armed man was her husband, said she had no idea what he was up to.”There were reports that Sikandar’s first wife lives in the UAE and has a son, who is in the custody of the Emirates police on murder charges. ( Perfect Share a raat candidate)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Dipanker » 16 Aug 2013 05:21

Sixty seven years on and still no Sharia in Pakistan? This is truly a massive betrayal of Islam by Pakistan and the Paki rulers. What are they afraid of ? Sharia law?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Anujan » 16 Aug 2013 06:40

SBajwa wrote:line up the pinaka and bofors along the Kashmir-Punjab-Rajasthan-Gujarat border and start lobbing shells into Pindi, Muzaffrabad, Lahore, Sialkote, kasur, multan and karachi.


15 years after Kargil, we still dont have decent Arty. If we had quadrupled our arty, we could have flattened their border posts. After going nuclear, the only deterrence that is likely to work with the Pakis are conventional weapons which are effective without crossing the border. Recall that 2003 "ceasefire" was because of IA who pretty much flattened the Neelum valley every week.

I have come to believe that not upgrading our Arty is a tacit CBM given by GOI to the Pakis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Aug 2013 06:48

Then how did India decimate Neelum valley?

Somehow I don't think India is just letting of steam when it shells Pak-Pok.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Kakkaji » 16 Aug 2013 06:49

Anujan wrote:I have come to believe that not upgrading our Arty is a tacit CBM given by GOI to the Pakis.


ramanaji said so on BRF years ago.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby vishvak » 16 Aug 2013 08:02

shyamd wrote:
vishvak wrote:^^About "world political situation", how fair is it for US, EU and many other countries to link trade deals with na-pak peace process? What are details here and what are guarantees offered in this arbitrary linking? If it is unfair at its base then who enforces any such guarantees and what happens if purvayers of arbitrary links themselves won't make pakis go wild for blackmailing Indians indirectly??

These countries themselves go to war so have we linked our food exports to world peace yet - can't Indians "impose things" on others in the name of peace even when others do?

How long will these arbitrary deals last in the first place when linked arbitrarily with na-pak peace process? Or are those instrument to blackmail more than trade deals because of its artificial links that our FM could have readily agreed to? Who would benefit from these unfair conditions?

That's just the way it goes - for India they link Indo Pak peace process for our trade deals, with others it's human rights, financial reforms etc. before serious negotiations took place EU sent a fact finding mission to Kashmir. The report was in our favour and they criticised pak role. Mushy was upset.

Fact of the matter is India has zero leverage. So it's easy for us to blame the govt but this is the reality. Who will benefit? People like accountants and doctors who will be able to practice with less restrictions, exporters. They'll get a one up over PRC, who don't have this agreement.

Where are details of the negotiations of trade deals for peace with barbarians? We are not even making this conditional and arbitrary linkages public - why is it so?

Have Russians or Africans made such blackmailing linkages for deals? This is abnormal. Not only we are paying hard cash - and no Transfer of Technology by the way - we are also under this blackmail to deal rabid dogs of 3.5 fourfathers for decades.

Over that Indians are not even in the know of price of development and are prone to be lectured on modern world and progress it brings as ideal when the fact is we are paying for it and then also being blackmailed in the name of progress.

The least one can do is to make people know that this is not normal and we have been blackmailed for decades for conditional deals and arbitrary linkages for peace with rabid dogs who are not even interested in peace.

We must make this arbitrary linkages and blackmail model public - this is necessary.

About zero leverage - difficult to accept that. We are dealing with Russians and Africans and we don't need leverage for friends and strategic partners.

EU and USA are not our friends as these blackmailing deals and arbitrary linkages show. Indians don't have to play into blackmailing deals for decades, unless of course our planning falters and efforts are not piled up efficiently.

But what more we have to do for we are doing quite a lot already - as EU observations show clearly. We don't have to do much at all to show perfidious and blackmailing nature of "world political situation". At least we can be honest and open about it.

vishvak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby vishvak » 16 Aug 2013 08:16

Kakkaji wrote:
Anujan wrote:I have come to believe that not upgrading our Arty is a tacit CBM given by GOI to the Pakis.


ramanaji said so on BRF years ago.

For any such off hand deals with pukis the jawaans and families of jawaans have to pay for this, not 5-star circuit chattering mobs.

Philip
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Philip » 16 Aug 2013 09:06

This a legitimate Q.Why is it that some key defence issues like Arty,subs,etc., languish for over a decade,while suddenly with indecent haste FMS purchases at exorbitant cost of Uncle Sam's weaponry happens miraculously,saving Boeing's C-17 line from shutting down,etc.,while otherd eals are put through the quagmire of babudom? Is there an insidious effort by quislings within our system to keep the preparedness of the Indian armed forces low so that the servile foreign policy doctrine of the MMS regime can serve thier firang masters vested interests first? If you look at the spineless wonders who have been put in charge of the MEA like Krishna and Kursed,allowing the PMO to dominate foreign policy,appearing as ever to have been drawn up in Washiington,so that Paki interets can be accommodated by making India "pay the price",it all fits in.is

The revelation by a scribe posted earlier that MMS is hellbent upon visiting Pak-at any cost before his term ends,as he is most unlikely to remain as PM as the Congress' hopes are diminishing by the day,must be taken seriously.His hope that he can "turn a trick",a "peace in our time" like Chamberlain,was hinted at in Kursed's interview with Arnab Goswami.I don't know how many caught it,even Arnab didn't,as he repeated himself twice when cornered,to "wait and see what we have.." or words to that effect.It was as if there is a secret
"package deal" already worked out between the Sherrif and the Doctor,which will be dramatically unveiled just before the elections ,along with all the usual sub-continental tamasha and glowing approval from the firang puppeteers.MMS has failed disastrously with the Indian economy.Like Humpty Dumpty,none of the Queen's asses or none of the Queen's men,can put together the Indian economy again!
Therefore his only hope of salvaging his tattered reputation is to bring home a "P*ss in our time".If so,truly he will be ever remembered as India's Chamberlain returning from Munich ,waving a scrap of paper in his hand,not even worth the price of a toilet roll!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby wig » 16 Aug 2013 09:09

White flags of surrender
Senior officers amongst Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa's brave policemen had a private meeting the other day. They resolved to ask the government what its real policy is towards the Taliban and if need be, "should they have the white flags of surrender" on the ready? Similarly, during the Dera Ismail Khan jail break, sources say the khaki station commander ordered his officers to go in hot pursuit of the terrorists who raided the prison to release their comrades. "No sir" the officers said and flatly refused. Apparently, they were ready for a court martial for disobeying orders but they were not prepared to go after the terrorists.




http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta3/tft ... 16&page=32

Philip
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Philip » 16 Aug 2013 09:40

In reality,they're both on the same side! The rise of the ungodlies in Pak has been relentlessly increasing.It is only a matter of time before the old Sandhurst tribe and traditions of Blighty recede into the past.Already the "Talibanisation" of the Paki forces has begun-just see the increase of "beardies" in their forces.There is a tussle for power between cronies and supporters of the feudal "ancien regime" and the supporters of the Shariaa,who want to turn Pak into another Saudi clone,or like the MB in Egypt,want to usher in a fundamentalist revolution.This war within the Muslim world is tearing their countries apart,with the moderates on the backfoot,unable to stem the tide of the fanatics who are queuing up in the thousands for their "72s"!

So this spat is just a fratricidal one between "birthers".What was it that Uris wrote in his book? "Brother against brother,brothers against the father,the family against the clan,the clan against the tribe,the tribe against the nation,the nation against the infidel, and so on and so forth! As my Lebanese friend said,"It has also been the policy of the West in the Middle East to see that war between the Sunnis and Shiites exists...."

Who knows,perhaps it is the parting gift of elements in the house of Uncle Sam to see that Pak is also riven within itself,so that the goal of the ungodlies to once again capture Afghanistan and use it as the HQ for the Talibs and AlQ never happens.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby anupmisra » 16 Aug 2013 16:00

Love fest continues. Nawaz, Singh likely to meet in September: FO

Pakistan had already apprised India of its concern over the situation on the Line of Control
all communication channels between the two countries were open
The FO spokesman added that Pakistan would not allow the use of its territory for terrorism


So, don't worry. Be happy. First define "terrorism" in Islamic terms. After that "All is well".

member_23252
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_23252 » 16 Aug 2013 16:03

TTP will open a front against India if its army did not stop ‘unprovoked attacks’ on POK.

The Taliban leader said on Wednesday, that the TTP will open a front against India if its army did not stop ‘unprovoked attacks’ on Pakistani territory in Kashmir.
“If Indian does not stop firing along the LoC in Azad Kashmir, we will also target Indians and will defend Pakistani borders,” the TTP leader said. Asked about the logic of attacking Pakistani forces defending the country’s geographical frontiers, the Taliban leader said, “we are fighting the Pakistani government for the sake of Islam, but it does not mean that we will allow the enemies of the country to attack our homeland.”


What TTP needs to be reminded is, that indian soldiers don't hide in gutters when attacked.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby anupmisra » 16 Aug 2013 16:06

Jhujar wrote:Gunman demanding Sherriraat keeps capital on toes for hours
Malsi Cometh Soon


A true hero, nonetheless. See below. While his "barkha-clad wife" kept sexting on her mobile, this momeen kept the paki police pinned down with his AK47s. When sharia finally comes to the land of the pure, they should rename the avenue after him in recognition of his yeoman service to the cause.

Image

member_22872
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby member_22872 » 16 Aug 2013 16:11

Now TTP is still non-state actors? we should have considered cross LOC soldier killings as act of war, not terrorism and MMS should have said so in state address. On the other hand our incompetent leaders are non-state actors.

Comer
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Comer » 16 Aug 2013 16:34

^^ GTA 72: Is loo Edition


*Ghazi Tight Ass

Lilo
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 13, 2013

Postby Lilo » 16 Aug 2013 16:51

anupmisra wrote:
Jhujar wrote:Gunman demanding Sherriraat keeps capital on toes for hours
Malsi Cometh Soon


A true hero, nonetheless. See below. While his "barkha-clad wife" kept sexting on her mobile, this momeen kept the paki police pinned down with his AK47s. When sharia finally comes to the land of the pure, they should rename the avenue after him in recognition of his yeoman service to the cause.

[ig]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2307/d4nu.jpg[/mg]


Are those real guns at least ?
Looks more like a "propah replica"s


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