Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Sushupti » 01 Nov 2013 18:03


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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby fanne » 01 Nov 2013 18:16

Boss there is lots of FUD. I don't see any news of of Hyder Ali escaping. Why Shri VikramS is saying so. If this is really happening, then NAMO should cancel his visit to Patna. With almost all of the culprits escaping, his advanced Bomb squad bumped off today, its obvious as day and night what is going on!!

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby rgsrini » 01 Nov 2013 20:01

^^http://www.rediff.com/news/report/2-officers-of-modis-bomb-squad-killed-in-road-mishap/20131101.htm

2 officers of Modi's bomb squad killed in road mishap.
Two security personnel of Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi were killed and five others injured when a speeding truck rammed into their vehicle on Friday, police said.


The team of security personnel was on their way to Patna.


The timing certainly makes one wonder if it is actually an accident, or if they have been bumped off as fanne mentions above. The media has gone silent on this and is out of the front page now. All the "investigative journalists" will bury their head and pretend that this never happened.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Philip » 01 Nov 2013 21:37

This is too much of a coincidence.It only reinforces the grave suspicions that the so-called IM assassination attempt on Mr.Modi had an Indian godfather.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Prem » 01 Nov 2013 21:38

rgsrini wrote:^^http://www.rediff.com/news/report/2-officers-of-modis-bomb-squad-killed-in-road-mishap/20131101.htm

2 officers of Modi's bomb squad killed in road mishap.
Two security personnel of Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi were killed and five others injured when a speeding truck rammed into their vehicle on Friday, police said.


This "Speedig Truck" have killed few defence scientists as well defence personnel too in last couple of years.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Cosmo_R » 02 Nov 2013 02:15

Jhujar wrote:
This "Speedig Truck" have killed few defence scientists as well defence personnel too in last couple of years.


That is exactly I have been worrying about WRT to IGMP people who get too much pubilcity

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Cosmo_R » 02 Nov 2013 02:21

syele wrote:The first bomb to go off was at the Railway Station that injured and eventually killed the suicide bomber. It could have scared some of the other planters to walk away leaving the bombs un-triggered and not exploded. That also explains the other explosions going off without waiting for Modi.

If that suicide bomber did not have premature explosion, they had enough time to reach the venue in time for Modi.


Explodo Praecox ? (paging Shiv)

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Cosmo_R » 02 Nov 2013 02:47

Karan M wrote:...

This is merely the tip of the iceberg, by a publicity hungry security apparatus and news hungry media. In the past they have mentioned exactly how IM folks communicated and how police was tracking them via emails (guess what, they stopped doing that) and also go into all the stuff that these guys failed at (so they can learn from their mistakes apparently). Truly bizarre state of affairs.


Bollywoodization of everything. Here's one example:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 46361.aspx

OK, so next time, they'll use some other brand. Memo: Don't tip them off.

On not tipping them off:

1. One 'Tunda' gets arrested. Major publicity (he's naming names etc). Memo to accomplices: "Flee you fools".

2. One Yasin Bhatkal is arrested. Major publicity (memo to all). He's taken on a grand tour across India for 'interrogation' by local police. Winds up in Bihar where local cops refuse to jail him because they have no cause. Typical Detective Moochwala stuff.

3. 26/11 watched in astonishment as reporter Rajus fell all over themselves to broadcast sensitive details to ISI handlers in real time.

4. Akshardham. Crowd outside Temple cheers when NSG finally arrive after 8 hours, thereby alerting terroristas who paused from offering namaaz.

Does every incident have to be a B-grade Bollywood production? A few Israelis (I can only take these guys in small doses) tell me (again and again) "You people are children".

Seriously, we need to rethink this 'States are responsible for law and order' concept of federalism. Indian states are engineered for vote bank optimization and they are responsible for the lack of law and order.

That of course, assumes you have a NIA that does not double as a comedy act.

The media is hopeless and far from being the fourth estate has become a fifth column.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby brihaspati » 02 Nov 2013 02:58

Or if say an advanced thinking NIA had moles in IM who came to alert the admin with information after the partially botched blast who then walks away because he was not under arrest and who is found in a train and brought back for further questioning.

It would have fit if the NIA had really an operative inside, who either got rogue, or was instructed from somewhere to create controlled-mayhem, and who is then sought to be silenced or who fears so and tries to escape - bit is caught up and put in safe cookie jar where he cannot sing damagingly.

Speculation onlee and a model.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Karan M » 02 Nov 2013 03:57

Cosmo_R wrote:
Karan M wrote:...

This is merely the tip of the iceberg, by a publicity hungry security apparatus and news hungry media. In the past they have mentioned exactly how IM folks communicated and how police was tracking them via emails (guess what, they stopped doing that) and also go into all the stuff that these guys failed at (so they can learn from their mistakes apparently). Truly bizarre state of affairs.


Bollywoodization of everything. Here's one example:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 46361.aspx

OK, so next time, they'll use some other brand. Memo: Don't tip them off.

On not tipping them off:

1. One 'Tunda' gets arrested. Major publicity (he's naming names etc). Memo to accomplices: "Flee you fools".

2. One Yasin Bhatkal is arrested. Major publicity (memo to all). He's taken on a grand tour across India for 'interrogation' by local police. Winds up in Bihar where local cops refuse to jail him because they have no cause. Typical Detective Moochwala stuff.

3. 26/11 watched in astonishment as reporter Rajus fell all over themselves to broadcast sensitive details to ISI handlers in real time.

4. Akshardham. Crowd outside Temple cheers when NSG finally arrive after 8 hours, thereby alerting terroristas who paused from offering namaaz.

Does every incident have to be a B-grade Bollywood production? A few Israelis (I can only take these guys in small doses) tell me (again and again) "You people are children".

Seriously, we need to rethink this 'States are responsible for law and order' concept of federalism. Indian states are engineered for vote bank optimization and they are responsible for the lack of law and order.

That of course, assumes you have a NIA that does not double as a comedy act.

The media is hopeless and far from being the fourth estate has become a fifth column.


Well said sir.. the central option re:NIA is also a farce now because its basically an extension of current govt and less said the better.

About the Israelis - well, they have a much higher educated populace & a govt that is aware of the holocaust to say never again (in India we have indulged in negationism about our own history, so the common educated Indian has been a lamb to the slaughter, and rural folks are anyways struggling hand to mouth). Having said that, they too do a lot of keystone kop-giri, luckily for them, they face bigger keystone kops.. in India, we face far worse. Even the bumblers keep experimenting, and thanks to our helpful insights on how not to do things, they end up succeeding.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Pranav » 02 Nov 2013 19:33

Meenakshi Lekhi has written a good article on the domestic & foreign nexuses out to stop NaMo - http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.c ... eader-away

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Rahul M » 02 Nov 2013 22:28

brihaspati wrote:Or if say an advanced thinking NIA had moles in IM who came to alert the admin with information after the partially botched blast who then walks away because he was not under arrest and who is found in a train and brought back for further questioning.

It would have fit if the NIA had really an operative inside, who either got rogue, or was instructed from somewhere to create controlled-mayhem, and who is then sought to be silenced or who fears so and tries to escape - bit is caught up and put in safe cookie jar where he cannot sing damagingly.

Speculation onlee and a model.

NIA is an investigative agency, not an operational one. it can't and doesn't run agents or moles.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby brihaspati » 02 Nov 2013 22:49

^^^I thought it was mostly run by rotation and deputation from operational agencies. So overlaps and interfaces to use existing operational streams would be natural to expect. At least in several other countries thats how things run in reality even if there are formal posturings of separation of operational and investigative. NIA claims to be aiming for international standards.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Rahul M » 02 Nov 2013 23:02

useful operational people don't usually move to an investigative unit. if they do they have to hand over the assets first.

if any international standard organisation is staffed by investigators who are running agents on the side, they would surely not do a very good job of either and also come in the way of the real operational people. which organisations might these be, btw ?

NIA is purely a post incident investigating agency, it was created because IB doesn't have arresting powers and can't support prosecution directly (can't appear as witnesses f.e). there are enough agencies in India to do the 'other' thing without needing NIA to try its hand at it.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Pranav » 02 Nov 2013 23:19

Patna serial blasts: Bihar government officer's son detained for providing shelter to IM terrorist Tabish
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/patn ... 21388.html

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby brihaspati » 02 Nov 2013 23:38

RahulM
they are not entirely devoid of "operational" capabilities. Such capabilities develop or are developed as part of even someone trying to professionalize investigations onlee. NIA itself gives an indication [press release on NIA site]

A source information developed by the National Investigation Agency (NIA), Mumbai Branch regarding illegal transport of huge consignment of cash of suspicious origin was passed on to the Income Tax Department.

During a follow-up operation on July 1, 2013 at Mumbai Central Railway Station by the Income Tax Department with assistance provided by NIA, huge amount of Cash and Jewellery has been seized. The inventory of the same is being prepared by the IT department and further investigation is by the Income Tax Department is in progress.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Rahul M » 02 Nov 2013 23:47

this type of info is more of the form of nuggets discovered during investigation and passed on rather than an active op. they have neither the manpower nor the org ethos to do that.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby vishvak » 02 Nov 2013 23:58

Pranav wrote:Patna serial blasts: Bihar government officer's son detained for providing shelter to IM terrorist Tabish
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/patn ... 21388.html

Shouldn't pseudo secular brigade follow the serial terror blasts at political rally and such information?

Shouldn't pseudo secular NGOs sue perpetrators till the Supreme Court?

Shouldn't there be information campaigns by pseudo secular brigade about this?

But then why would these people be pseudo secular. The silence and ignorance is a pseudo secular miracle!

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby brihaspati » 03 Nov 2013 00:03

Rahul M,
but that is not what they mention. "Source developed" is a slip but a common term that indicates cultivation/grooming of operatives. Typically that has always been the way in which majority of sources/agents have been recruited - through an initial investigation/pursuit, and then exploiting weaknesses/temptations. NIA has been transferred many state cases on suspected IM activists, and NIA has been exposed to this stuff for a couple of years now - enough time for them to "develop sources".

Also one of the mission items appears to "Build a data base on all terrorist related information and share the data base available with the States and other agencies". This is not just post-incident exercise and would require ongoing surveillance and operational interfaces.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Rahul M » 03 Nov 2013 00:11

b'ji, I am not basing my posts on what 'they' mention.

and no, they do not get info about ongoing ops. that would be a grave breach of opsec. creating DB doesn't require info about ongoing ops.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Sushupti » 03 Nov 2013 00:40

vishvak wrote:
Pranav wrote:Patna serial blasts: Bihar government officer's son detained for providing shelter to IM terrorist Tabish
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/patn ... 21388.html

Shouldn't pseudo secular brigade follow the serial terror blasts at political rally and such information?

Shouldn't pseudo secular NGOs sue perpetrators till the Supreme Court?

Shouldn't there be information campaigns by pseudo secular brigade about this?

But then why would these people be pseudo secular. The silence and ignorance is a pseudo secular miracle!


From the link:

"National Investigation Agency has detained Saddam Hussain, son of Bihar government employee"

During first Gulf war, Saddam Husssain was very popular name for newly born among "peacefuls". Looks like this guy lived up to the expectation of his Daddy.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Sushupti » 03 Nov 2013 02:57

90 bombs on hand- What was the IM planning?

http://vickynanjapa.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -planning/

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Sushupti » 03 Nov 2013 03:01

deleted

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby VikramS » 03 Nov 2013 05:50

fanne wrote:Boss there is lots of FUD. I don't see any news of of Hyder Ali escaping. Why Shri VikramS is saying so. If this is really happening, then NAMO should cancel his visit to Patna. With almost all of the culprits escaping, his advanced Bomb squad bumped off today, its obvious as day and night what is going on!!


Did you read the link? What I wrote was the headline of the link.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Pranav » 03 Nov 2013 11:40

Patna bombers belong to the Ahle Hadees sect - http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/pat ... dline-ways

This is a Wahhabi sect to which the LeT belongs.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby vivek.rao » 03 Nov 2013 18:05

Sushupti wrote:90 bombs on hand- What was the IM planning?

http://vickynanjapa.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -planning/


The planning for the Patna blasts commenced just a month before the attack. In fact it was planned immediately on hearing that Narendra Modi would hold a rally in Patna. The accused persons kept a tab of everything that was happening and also realized that the friction between Modi and Nitish Kumar would only ensure that the security by the Bihar police would be lax or lackluster. Imtiaz says during his questioning that not once were stopped or questioned by anyone. We visited the railways station and also the Gandhi Maidan more than 20 times during the planning stages and none got a wind of what we were up to.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby CRamS » 03 Nov 2013 20:56

SwapanDa has a gentleman's take on the Patna blasts

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... na-bombers

He also refers to that gratuitous NYT editorial.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby ramana » 03 Nov 2013 21:13

Its very possible that IM is sarkari outfit to channel recalcitrant elements and thus has free rein from the NIA which seems very hard pressed to come to conclusions on any of the cases assigned to it. Mysterious are the ways of Sarkar raj.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby ramana » 03 Nov 2013 21:17

CRamS wrote:SwapanDa has a gentleman's take on the Patna blasts

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... na-bombers

He also refers to that gratuitous NYT editorial.



In these times its not helpful to write long winded articles as they will be treated as those beginning with "f".

Significant point in the article buried in the last para

Nominally, the Indian Mujahedeen was responsible but those who chose to look the other way and pretended nothing happened must bear some moral blame.


Again the moral compass bane which drove away our pseculars!!!!

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby brihaspati » 03 Nov 2013 22:20

If there was a psec party in power or admin, would it not be to its advantage to place agents in the IM - even if it was not entirely ideologically supportive of formal IM agenda? The agents could further be provocateurs, or sleepers. They can be used politically to bump off political thorns - without ever getting the blame. If IM bumps off Modi or BJP brains, then they can shed croc tears about how they decry violence - but will also immediately demand the need to understand righteous anger among Muslims for what supposedly uniquely occurred in Gujarat.

This can be a common method regardless of whether it is Maoists, or IM. Its killing two birds with the same stone. First use the org to bump off rivals, and then use the public outrage to clean off the org's more disobedient or showing-signs-of-independence minds. The crucial point is however the need for much higher level resources usually at the hands of national level governments, to pull such things off. That degree of coercive power is also needed to keep the surviving members mouth shut after the cleanup of disobedients.

This however does not rule out substantial role of Paki-ISI, or related other Islamic country's or even western intel's hands behind IM. The same model will hold - for, for many of them, NM represents a threat as yet. Thats a different topic discussion. However, a certain degree of tacit allowance from local politics and admin is also needed foe externals to function that way.

NIA appears to suppress information that may jeopardize the way it wants to or perhaps have been instructed to represent a case [a ref being the dropping of a supposed internal note about Ishrat from its press release and chargesheet].

ramana ji, a majority of the chargesheets so far submitted by the NIA [40 onlee out of the 73 ist supposedly investigating] accuses persons from Muslim background and with alleged IM connection. With the so-called network around Purohit being the second most prominent. A few Maoist and NE. But convictions secured record is abject. Some are trying to say it is out of resource constraint and possible incompetence. But I would urge reading the charge sheets. There should be some very interesting patterns.

In the Bihar case, they will end up blaming the already known IM leadership, and possibly an external connection with ISI backing. The twist will be if they feel the urge to also do Purohitization - since they have already started mumbling about investigating "political conspiracies".

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby IndraD » 04 Nov 2013 13:22

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 206558.cms

layers of protection around modi after IB alert

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Ashok Sarraff » 04 Nov 2013 17:15

Multiple security layers are fine in the public sphere, but I fear that anti-Modi forces (whether Indian or from abroad), may try something more sophisticated like a plane/helicopter crash or poisoning. Do NSG or other agencies guard against that and other forms of sabotage?

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Nov 2013 17:37

I have to weep:

"Spotters in disguise will mingle in the crowds while an advance team will "sanitise" sites six times, the last time an hour before Modi's arrival, a security official said."

Give them few days and they'll even spell out where they are 'sanitizing', who the spotters are and the time of the 'all clear' to terrorists that the last scan is over.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 46915.aspx

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby IndraD » 04 Nov 2013 18:53

either indian media is irresponsible or hand in glove with terrorists

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby vishvak » 04 Nov 2013 19:28

And so is international media which is silent on serial blasts at Patna rally for no excuse.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby CRamS » 04 Nov 2013 19:41

Ashok Sarraff wrote:Multiple security layers are fine in the public sphere, but I fear that anti-Modi forces (whether Indian or from abroad), may try something more sophisticated like a plane/helicopter crash or poisoning. Do NSG or other agencies guard against that and other forms of sabotage?


Absolutely. This is a challenge that TSP ISI loves and I am sure GHQ and other ISI hideouts, along with their Indian cohorts are working overtime on a plan.

I hate to say this guys, but the more I see this election campaign, the more I see the desperation and the obsession and the sheer hatred of anti-Modi forces, both domestic & foreign, but I see a less than 50% chance that Modi will survive to even fight the election. I hope I am wrong, and I want to be wrong, but I say this because he is up against a determined enemy of forces, and I am not sure that in a country like India, where everything can be compromised, how trustworthy these multiple layers of security are, not to mention their competence. Remember the security cover is only as effective as the weakest link.

Just take one example. Here is the pure pervert speculating in a TSP newsaper that BJP did the Patna bombings. Can it get any lower

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... the-blasts

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2013 20:49

Intifada types, pakiban and ira have demonstrated competence with mortar attacks sometimes remotely started but prelaid on target co ordinate. Even 10 downing street had one drop on the back lawn.

That apart the rpg has a straight run range of around 700m and more ballistically.

both can be launched from well outside the sanitized zone on known targets like a stage.

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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby ramana » 04 Nov 2013 21:47

IndraD wrote:either indian media is irresponsible or hand in glove with terrorists



Excuse me its the 'security' officials giving out details to show they are on the job. The medai reports what it is told. There is nothing that made those officials say "no comment!"

OTH it could be the security guys giving out their half measures.

in the end they will wring their hands before some feku commission to whitewahs their mea culpas.


No one paid for the death of Mrs G or Rajiv Gandhi.


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Re: Patna Blasts : 27 Oct 2013 (News and Discussion)

Postby Karan M » 04 Nov 2013 22:18

Cosmo_R wrote:I have to weep:

"Spotters in disguise will mingle in the crowds while an advance team will "sanitise" sites six times, the last time an hour before Modi's arrival, a security official said."

Give them few days and they'll even spell out where they are 'sanitizing', who the spotters are and the time of the 'all clear' to terrorists that the last scan is over.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 46915.aspx


I protest. They haven't told the public about their dress, the uniforms they will be wearing, and where they will be coming from, and when they will leave. More details are required. :x :roll:

The 3 stooges would be proud of these guys.


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