Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

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shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2014 06:03

Ramu wrote:Both giving and receiving MFN are beneficial to pakistan.

But what is benefical to india? Neither in my opinion.

If you look at Pakistan as one united entity, then MFN may be beneficial to that one united entity called Pakistan. But Pakistan is not one united entity. It is a collection of vested interests that has been given the label "nation state". Giving India MFN benefits certain vested interests and makes it worse for others. As regards receiving MFN there is nothing they can do because it is up to India to do that or suspend it.

Why does India give Pakistan MFN? Because India loses nothing. Pakistan has little to export to India. But getting MFN from Pakistan could benefit border trade and people in Punjab. A person who produces exportable goods in Punjab (not Pakjab) now has to ship the goods to a seaport and the goods make a 1000 mile journey to reach a place that is 50 miles across the border. That is patently unfair to that businessman and he is Indian and deserves to make a profit out of shitlanders rather than allowing a middleman profit to be taken from his goods by Dawood or Paki army office sitting in Dubai. More expensive goods from Malaysia, Thailand and Europe then become competitive compared to Indian goods because all are shipped 1000s of km.

Besides, goods are smuggled out of India at Indian prices and sold at high prices in Pakistan after shipping via a Paki profiteering smuggler based in Dubai, so the Indian producer is the loser while a Paki gets rich and funds Riyaz Bhtakal and other assholes. Paki LOL "lawmakers" as usual are brainless twits. They do not care that essential stuff is too expensive for their 180 million bhookanangas while profits are swallowed by the 44 rich families with offices in Dubai.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby SSridhar » 27 Mar 2014 06:14


It would be difficult to find a more shameless country than this scumbag which purely survives *only* on begging, whoring, threats of implosive self-destruction and fraud.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2014 06:26

SSridhar wrote:

It would be difficult to find a more shameless country than this scumbag which purely survives *only* on begging, whoring, threats of implosive self-destruction and fraud.

You know Sridhar - I think Indian diplomats and lawmakers have to mature a great deal before they can deal with Pakistan with confidence. Pakistan is called a single united country only because the west wants it so. We need to call out Pakistan and point out that the government of Pakistan represents only Pakjab and parts of Sindh. Problem is we don't seem to have the gumption and chutzpah to tell Pakis to bugger off when they make similar counter accusations.

For example we allow people to call Kashmir "disputed" but hey Texas, Quebec, Northern Ireland , the Falklands and Scotland can be called disputed territory using the same rhetoric. Too many Indians suffer from a colonized mindset and lack of confidence so that we automatically agree with a description or accusation that comes from the west, but we are incapable of coming up with and pushing our view of the world.

For example, look at this news
http://idrw.org/?p=35480

How difficult would it be for India to say that "US, Iran ties are promising but fragile". Truly we are slaves - but more later in the media thread

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Joseph » 27 Mar 2014 13:23

shiv,

Are you expecting a change of behavior - attitude to happen on the Pakistani side after being called out by India?

After seeing how Pakistan rubbished the Mumbai dossiers, I doubt that India chastising the Pakis will suddenly give them an Aha moment and transform them into much better people.

To me, the Pakis are no different today than Bhutto was decades ago when he insulted the people of East Pakistan - Bangladesh.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2014 13:36

Joseph wrote:shiv,

Are you expecting a change of behavior - attitude to happen on the Pakistani side after being called out by India?

After seeing how Pakistan rubbished the Mumbai dossiers, I doubt that India chastising the Pakis will suddenly give them an Aha moment and transform them into much better people.

To me, the Pakis are no different today than Bhutto was decades ago when he insulted the people of East Pakistan - Bangladesh.

Not at all. To that extent my post was off topic. I am calling for a change of behaviour of Indians. But more about that elsewhere - I was reminded of that because most Indian commentators on Pakistan (many on BRF, in the media, and the government) tend to speak of Pakistan the nation - as if it is one whole united entity heading in one mutually agreed direction.

That is a misleading and blinkered picture of Pakistan. The only area in which Pakistan is united is in being anti-India and with that being the only side that we Indians see, it appears that we simply believe that just because Pakistanis are united against India they are united about everything else. Add to this our tendency to believe what the Americans want us to believe. If the Americans are to be believed Pakistan is a democracy with a moderate secular army that is fighting Islamic extremism and the bad bad Taliban who are to be opposed at all costs.

The percentage of Indians who believe this rubbish seems to be extremely large to me and I see it all over the media - on blogs, forums and newsmedia and in the government.

As long as we Indians (in general) tend to view Pakistan through a make believe lens, with ideas that are plain wrong, we are not going to be able to speak up and refer to Pakistan the way it actually is. This thought process was sparked off by a post that suggested that "Pakistan the nation" is somehow united in opposing MFN for India. It is not. Pakistan has lobbies and vested interests that can be gamed and played to India's advantage - as long as we are able to understand, speak of and deal with Pakistan the way it is. We need a change of mindset.

My personal views on why we seem unable to think straight will appear on another thread soon.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Joseph » 27 Mar 2014 15:30

Some parts of what you said I slightly disagree with and other parts I agree with.

Over the years, Pakistanis thought their actions in Afghanistan and East Pakistan were right and justified.
My POV is that the Pakistanis (Pakjabis) are united in thinking they are superior to the rest of people in the region while you have it as just being anti-India.


I do agree that many in India are too soft on the Pakjabis especially compared to what the citizens of Afghanistan and Bangladesh think of the Pakistanis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2014 17:11

Joseph wrote:
Over the years, Pakistanis thought their actions in Afghanistan and East Pakistan were right and justified.
My POV is that the Pakistanis (Pakjabis) are united in thinking they are superior to the rest of people in the region while you have it as just being anti-India.

.


Not sure how you reached this conclusion from what I wrote. Pakjabis do feel superior but that does not mean any of the others like India or Indians. If you believe there is such a group that like or do not hate India please point them out to me. Pakistanis by and large are united only in hating India. Even the fact that Pakjabis feel superior to others is consistent with that fact.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Joseph » 27 Mar 2014 22:25

The people that I have met from Bangladesh weren't that positive about India, but their dislike of Pakistanis was very intense.

I guess that I am lumping Pakistani actions against East Pakistan, Afghanistan and India into a collective category of Pakjabis feeling superior while you are breaking it into distinct subsets with the anti-India subset different from the Afghanistan and East Pakistan subsets.

Edit:

Likely a failure on my part to lump everything together.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2014 00:05

Malsi Mercy layya , Malsi Mercy layya: Death Ka Paigam Leke,Retardness Saath Layya
Christian man awarded death penalty in Joseph Colony case

LAHORE: A court in Pakistan sentenced a Christian man to death for blasphemy Thursday, his lawyer said, over an incident that triggered a riot in the country's second-largest city.Sawan Masih was convicted of insulting the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) during the course of a conversation with a Muslim friend in the Joseph Colony neighbourhood of Lahore in March last year.More than 3,000 Muslims rampaged through Joseph Colony, torching some 100 Christian homes, after the allegations against Masih emerged.Naeem Shakir, one of Masih's lawyers, told AFP: “The judge has announced the death sentence for Sawan Masih.“We will appeal the sentence in the Lahore High Court.”Verdict and sentence were announced inside the jail where Masih was held, Shakir said.The country has had a de facto moratorium on civilian hangings since 2008. Only one person has been executed since then, a soldier convicted by court martial.Pakistan has extremely strict laws against defaming Islam, including the death penalty for insulting the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), and rights campaigners say they are often used to settle personal disputes.Masih has maintained his innocence and argued the real reason for the blasphemy allegation was a property dispute between him and his friend.No one was killed in the rampage through Joseph Colony last year but the incident highlighted the sensitivity of blasphemy in Pakistan.Some 97 per cent of the 180 million population are Muslim, and even unproven allegations can trigger a violent public response.Earlier this month an angry mob set fire to a Hindu temple in the southern city of Larkana over the alleged desecration of a Quran.A recent report from a US government advisory panel said Pakistan used blasphemy laws more than any other country in the world, listing 14 people on death row and 19 others serving life sentences for insulting Islam.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Agnimitra » 28 Mar 2014 00:17

Credit where its due - I am impressed by the bold and progressive streak in Pakistani society. Underneath the machismo of the Iqbalian Ubermensch "mard-e-momin" lies a tenderness the faithless can scarcely comprehend.

Asifa Lahore, British Pakistani drag queen whose work is banned, releases her biggest single so far, "tum hi ho":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4GgQNCbbYA


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby chetak » 28 Mar 2014 00:20

shiv wrote:
Joseph wrote:
Over the years, Pakistanis thought their actions in Afghanistan and East Pakistan were right and justified.
My POV is that the Pakistanis (Pakjabis) are united in thinking they are superior to the rest of people in the region while you have it as just being anti-India.

.


Not sure how you reached this conclusion from what I wrote. Pakjabis do feel superior but that does not mean any of the others like India or Indians. If you believe there is such a group that like or do not hate India please point them out to me. Pakistanis by and large are united only in hating India. Even the fact that Pakjabis feel superior to others is consistent with that fact.


The contemptuous behavior towards India is also strongly evident in educated and professional nepalese.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2014 02:46

Taliban's foreign Policy 93k time Better Than India's
Taliban refuse to release abducted sons of Gilani, Taseer

MALSIABAD: The Taliban have refused to release the abducted sons of Late Punjab Governor Salman Taseer and former Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani.However, the Taliban told the government’s committee that they are ready to release Professor Ajmal with a condition that the government would release their two men.The Taliban claimed the Sindh government is committing atrocities against their prisoners.Over release of two Taliban men, the government committee told the Taliban Shura that it would respond to the offer after talking to the Sindh government.The government committee further said that issues relating to the release of non-combatants prisoners should be dealt separately.Taliban peace committee member Professor Ibrahim has said that negotiations between the government and the Taliban are progressing in a positive way.Exclusively talking to Geo News, Professor Ibrahim said the process of confidence building has begun, adding that they wanted to settle all issues amicably.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2014 02:55

US scholar urges nuclear deal with Pakistan, similar to the one with India
$$$ Kya Uska Baap Layegga

Washington- Western powers should negotiate a nuclear deal with Pakistan similar to its accord with India as a way to reduce dangers from Islamabad, a prominent expert said Wednesday.Mark Fitzpatrick, a longtime US diplomat who is now a scholar at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, voiced alarm about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, the world's fastest growing, which he said would likely expand until at least 2020.Fitzpatrick said no solution was ideal, but he called for Western nations to offer Pakistan a deal along the lines of a 2005 accord with India, which allowed normal access to commercial nuclear markets despite its refusal to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty."The time has come to offer Pakistan a nuclear cooperation deal akin to India's," Fitzpatrick said as he launched a new book, "Overcoming Pakistan's Nuclear Dangers," in Washington."Providing a formula for nuclear normalization is the most powerful tool that Western countries can wield in positively shaping Pakistan's nuclear posture," Fitzpatrick said.Fitzpatrick said that Pakistan faced a "heavier burden of proof" than India to demonstrate it is a responsible power, after the father of Islamabad's bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, spread the technology widely, and due to the presence of Islamic extremist groups.Among conditions for a nuclear deal, Pakistan should stop blocking a new international agreement banning the production of fissile material and join the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, he said.In the book, Fitzpatrick said the risk of a much-discussed scenario in which Islamic extremists seize nuclear weapons was exaggerated, and that the larger danger was that Pakistan-linked militants would launch a new attack inside India and trigger a devastating nuclear war.Fitzpatrick, while voicing concern over an arms race, said Pakistan was constrained by its lack of uranium ore. Quoting anonymous sources, Fitzpatrick said Pakistan's production may end in 2020, by which time it would have some 200 nuclear weapons, about double the current estimate.Fitzpatrick also doubted reports that Pakistan would share nuclear weapons with Saudi Arabia in response to the kingdom's concerns on Iran, saying Islamabad would not want to open potential conflict with another neighbor.Many experts believe Saudi Arabia funded Pakistan's nuclear program. The South Asian nation went nuclear in 1998 days after a test by arch-rival India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2014 02:59

TTP Issue Guidelines For Foreign Policy: Disown One Big Fat Ghourfather

TTP want Pakistan to disassociate itself from the US war: Imran Khan

ISLAMABAD- Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan said that Taliban did not want to enforce Shariah in the country at gunpoint. Khan was speaking to journalists today before leaving for the Supreme Court in the federal capital. Khan said TTP want Pakistan to disassociate itself from the US war and this has also been a demand of PTI for the past ten years. Khan was optimistic about the positive outcomes from the dialogue process. Khan underscored that the government's negotiators should have given priority to tribal areas for peace talks, adding that tribal people held the key to dialogue. Imran further said that ceasefire should continue and the non-combatants (women, children and the elderly) should be released.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby arun » 28 Mar 2014 06:45

X Posted from the "Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan" thread.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, more grist to the mill of the Mohammadden penchant for oppressing the “Kaafir” “Dhimmis” of other religions, in this particular case a follower of Christism:

Pakistan court sentences Christian man to death for blasphemy

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2014 08:34

Paki pigs kill one injure 3 in J&K used army uniforms to hijack a Bolero near an army camp,in Dayalchok in J&K. heavy firing going on right now,pigs trying to break the army cordon,watch on TV channels live.This is the expected onslaught by the Paki pigs trying to disrupt the elections.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2014 09:07

Talks deadlocked; TTP rigidity blamed
No Peace Treaty Between Gaspassingstan & Sovereign Islamic Emirate Of Waziristan

PESHAWAR: According to an insider, the militants have set two conditions for continuation of the peace talks. One, the creation of a demilitarised peace zone in mountainous Shaktoi, South Waziristan, to allow freedom of movement and two, the release of non-combatants. The insider said the five-member militants’ committee sought written guarantees before they could commit to an extension in the month-long ceasefire. “For nearly seven hours, we talked to them about the destruction wrought by over a decade of violence, the loss of lives and property and displacement of people. “We said ‘let bygones be bygones, let’s bury the hatchet and make a new beginning’,” the insider said. “Nothing seemed to appeal to them. I have come back really disappointed. The chances of success and continuation are not terribly bright. This is a non-starter,” he said. He described the situation as a stalemate, adding it was now for the federal government to reply. The militants insisted the ceasefire was unilateral and accused the government of not respecting the “They said that our people were being picked up and tortured. We responded by pointing out the execution of 23 militiamen. But the argument didn’t work,” the insider said.
Asked how soon the talks could resume, the insider said it depended on how soon the government replied to the demands. This could happen before the expiry of the ceasefire, possibly in Bakkakhel in Frontier Region (FR) Bannu, on the boundary with North Waziristan. The area could be converted into a peace zone, he suggested. ( Line Of Control)“The first meeting was more about confidence-building measures and we couldn’t make any progress there. What will happen when we talk about more substantive issues,” the insider wondered. There were some tense moments. When one member of the committee, who represented the state, tried to explain in his opening remarks why the Taliban campaign in this country cannot be called a ‘Jihad’, Qari Shakeel, a key member of the Taliban committee, advised him not to lecture them about “Jihad”. Another member of the government committee had to intervene to cool down the atmosphere. But amid the serious talk, there were some lighter moments as well, recalled the insider. What he found most amusing was the journey to and from the venue of the negotiations. A paramilitary unit escorted them and turned them over to the militants for onward journey to an unknown place and when the militants escorted them on their way back, they handed them over to the unit for onward journey. “It was simply a handing over, taking over ceremony. They even shook hands with each other. This brought a smile to my lips, ” the insider said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby ramana » 28 Mar 2014 10:01

We are not looking at US appeasement of TSP this week and sending of terrorists to India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby SSridhar » 28 Mar 2014 10:55

Jhujar wrote:TTP Issue Guidelines For Foreign Policy: Disown One Big Fat Ghourfather
TTP want Pakistan to disassociate itself from the US war: Imran Khan

As a neighbouring country of Pakistan, the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan has every right to demand Pakistan not to let the US use it to fight wars with it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2014 11:48

The Murder-cenaries of Pakistan.It also exposes how the gallant Saudis always love to shoot at their enemies from the shoulders of their friends! Two fine pieces on the New Ind.Exp.from a former Paki diplomat.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... zUbn6KpNig
Pakistan's Saudi Riddle

By Karamatullah K Ghori
Published: 26th March 2014 06:00 AM

Conventional wisdom in the West says there are no free lunches. The eastern world, arguably more hospitable, has yet to make up its mind, for or against this western maxim.

The people of Pakistan are trying to sort out this riddle in their own inimitable way. They have the riddle staring them in the face since last week when the Nawaz government came up with glad tidings, out of the blue, and stunned the Pakistanis with the news that a “friendly” country had “gifted” Pakistan $ 1. 5 billion to replenish its hard currency coffers. The “gift” had an immediate impact on the health of Pakistan’s battered rupee; its par value, vis-à-vis the dollar, came down to `100 to a dollar from `105-plus.

But while the rupee basked in the glow of amazing recovery, it set off a train of speculation. Which friend of Pakistan had come up with such largesse, the layman asked? The government hedged its bets, skirting the issue. However, eager beavers of an inquisitive news media soon blew the lid of secrecy and spilled the beans: the friend-in-need was none other than Saudi Arabia, Pakistan’s regular benefactor. In 1998—when Pakistan was faced with sanctions because of its nuclear explosion—the Saudis had given it virtually cost-free oil for three long years.

But this time around it was a different ball game. Compared to the national apathy of 16 years ago, the Pakistanis are much more informed of the political dynamics today, thanks to a live-wire media that isn’t prepared to digest government’s press briefings without questioning or demur. Besides, as previously reported, the Saudis have been on Pakistan’s back for some time, cajoling and coaxing it, to become an arms supplier to their fanatical jihadi warriors locked in a gruelling tussle with the Assad regime in Syria.

Let alone the pundit, even the layman couldn’t miss seeing the gift had strings attached. The Saudis—sensing Pakistan’s hard currency crunch—were trying to take advantage of this vulnerability by bribing it with a dollop from tons of their petro-dollars. The Nawaz government was put on the defensive explaining the “gift” from Pakistan’s traditional mentor. The government felt so beleaguered that even the non-descript and laconic president Mamnoon Hussain—Nawaz’ handpicked crony for the largely-ceremonial post—waded into the controversy, though he ended up only muddying the waters further with a curious comment that international relations couldn’t be conducted without some input of “hypocrisy”.

It wasn’t hard for pundits to plumb that Nawaz government had a hold on hypocrisy in this case. And, then, the plot thickened further with the arrival in Islamabad, within days of the Saudi largesse, of the Amir (King) of Bahrain, perhaps the most trusted votary of the Saudis among the Gulf rulers. He landed with a large retinue of courtiers, including the chiefs of his army and internal security.

Bahrain has been plagued, the past three years, with a low-intensity insurgency with its Shiite majority demanding its democratic rights from the minority Sunni ruling elite.

Nothing epitomises the Saudi hypocrisy more than their stance on Bahrain. They are tilting at all windmills to topple the minority Shiite regime in Syria, but in Bahrain they have been standing four squares behind a repressive minority Sunni clan against an oppressed Shiite majority demanding its democratic rights.

Pakistan has been indirectly guilty of becoming a party to the persecution of Bahraini Shiites. In 2011, at the height of their insurgency when the Bahraini rulers had their backs to the wall under the people’s backlash, Pakistan allowed thousands of its ex-servicemen recruited as security personnel for the beleaguered Bahraini regime. The injection of trained Pakistani manpower turned the fortunes in favour of the tyrannical regime. The revolt was put down with force.

The aim of the Bahraini king’s unannounced visit to Pakistan—on the heels of the Saudi “bribe” and the first by a Bahraini monarch in 40 years—became crystal clear when on his first day in Islamabad he showed up at the Headquarters of the Joint Services Chiefs to confab with the heads of Pakistan army, navy and air force. A visiting ruler—that too from a tiny Gulf Sheikhdom—descending upon services chiefs is unheard of in Pakistan; it doesn’t happen ordinarily. But the Bahraini ruler wasn’t an ordinary visitor; the Saudi bag of goodies had preceded him to Islamabad giving him leverage to muscle his way into the sanctum of power in Pakistan.

The Bahraini foreign minister—a clansman of the rulers—spilled more beans than he tried to hide in his press briefing in Islamabad. They, the Bahrainis, were seeking more security personnel from Pakistan. That shouldn’t be a problem; there are, already, more than ten thousand Pakistanis beefing up the burgeoning Bahraini security ranks. And Pakistan has plenty more waiting in the wings to take care of the Bahraini needs. They bring in more cash for the cash-strapped Pakistani coffers.

The tradition of Pakistan ratcheting the security of Gulf Sheikhdoms is old. Pakistan has trained the navies and air forces of nearly all of the Gulf States, including Saudi Arabia. Almost 20 per cent of the Bahraini navy is made up of Pakistanis. So more the merrier may well be the motto for Pakistan in response to the Amir’s mission for help. But, the Pakistani people can’t help seeing powerful shades of hypocrisy their president inadvertently made a clean breast of in the exercise. They fault their own government for falling for a petty bribe to cater to outrageous demands of the Saudis and Bahrainis. They understand the seriousness of the stakes involved: the Saudis are twisting the Pakistani arm to salvage the fortunes of their fanatical mercenaries in Syria to topple a tyrannical regime; but are leaning hard on Pakistan to bail out the tyrannical Bahraini rulers. Could there be a more ironic case of blatant hypocrisy?

What incenses the Pakistani people is their sense of sectarian polarisation that a bad move by their government would induce, without fail. Sectarianism is already a serious issue in Pakistan, which would be accentuated by moves to corner Iran and sideline the Shiites who look up to it for leadership. The Pakistani Shiite minority—20 to 25 per cent of the population—will not look kindly to the anti-Iran agenda indirectly furthered by their unthoughtful government.

Is Nawaz conscious of what liability he may be taking on in catering to the excessive demands of his Saudi mentors may be hard to answer now. The jury will be out for some time. That only leaves the Pakistanis bemused. Their benighted rulers are only piling avoidable woes on them.

Karamatullah K Ghori is a former Pakistani diplomat.
Email:k_k_ghori@yahoo.com



Pakistan Pressured to Go out on a Limb on Syria?
By Karamatullah K. Ghori
Toronto, Canada

Nothing can be put past the leaders of Pakistan when it comes to obliging their foreign mentors and patrons.

There was, for one, our very First Bonaparte, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, who didn’t bat an eye-lid before handing over Badaber , outside Peshawar, to his American ‘Friends, not Masters,’ as per his claim, and the ‘friends’ quickly converted it into an airbase to spy on the then Soviet Union. That was whence the American spy-pilot, Garry Power, took off in his U-2 aircraft, in May 1960, and was shot down by the Russians over their soil. That one incident of voluntarily going out on a limb for ‘friends-that-never-were-in-need’ incurred us the abiding wrath and hostility of the Russians. It may not be out of place to note that the First PM of Pakistan, Liaquat Ali Khan, had firmly declined to be browbeaten by this outrageous demand from the same ‘friends’ on his watch.

Need anyone be reminded of our last (hopefully the very-last) Bonaparte, the upstart commando, General Pervez Musharraf, and his shameful pawning of Pakistan to his American mentors-and-minders?

Ayub may’ve given only one air base to the distant ‘friend’ but Musharraf opened up the country, from one end to the other, to his pay-masters. And the commando didn’t stop there; for good measure, and to earn more brownie points, he also threw in as a bonus a blank check to pummel the hapless Pakistanis in the north with dreaded drones.

Of course, the Bonapartes alone shouldn’t be picked on for being susceptible to bullying or blandishments. Our civilian ‘heroes’ aren’t immune, either, to this dreadful malaise of buckling under pressure from heir puppeteers.

Nawaz Sharif, who suffered humiliation and exile under Musharraf, isn’t a Bonaparte but seems to have been smitten by the same bug that incapacitated his tormentor-Bonaparte. His forced banishment to Saudi Arabia threw him into the lap of the Saudis like a ripened fruit falling off a tree. He prospered enormously in that exile, thanks to his Saudi patrons who took fancy to him and, in the process, also acquired a hefty leverage over him.

It seems that the Saudis are now well poised to cash in their investment in Nawaz Sharif. So they’re leaning on him to become their arms supplier to the murderers fighting a bloody war against Bashar Al-Assad in Syria.

The world has known it for quite some time that the Salafi hordes, ignited by their congenital hatred of the Alawi Bashr regime in Syria, have been generously bank-rolled by the Saudis royals, who have their own axe to grind with Assad. Initially Saudi Arabia’s Western allies, led by the US, were four-square behind the Saudi-inspired insurgency to topple Assad. The strategy was supposed to serve a dual target: get rid of the pesky Baathist regime in Syria and, as a bonus to it, cripple the Iranian influence in that part of the Levant. The strategy had silent blessings of Israel, too, which has been anxious for a long time to give a bloody nose to Iran because of its mentoring of Hizbollah in Lebanon.

However, the blood-thirsty Salafi hordes, resembling the 21 st century version of the vandals and the Mongols, have come up with their own side-agenda. They wouldn’t just stop at the gates of a vanquished Damascus to oblige their pay-masters but carry on to conquer Iraq, too. Their agenda is larger than their mentors’: they are seeking to establish an Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) to become a launching pad for their avowed world-wide jihad for a world transformed in their skewed perception of an Islam perpetually at war.

The Salafi agenda and blue-print of ISIS—with Al Qaeda imprints festooned on it-- sends shudders down the western spines, if not yet down the spines of the deep-pocketed Qatar and Saudi Arabia catering to their every whim in the bloody confrontation with the Damascus regime.

But the Salafi agenda understandably puts a damper on any expectations of their pay-masters that the western countries would agree to give them the kind of weapons that would match what the Assad regime has, with the Russians readily replenishing its armoury. The Salafis have no weapons to match, for instance, the fire-power of the Syrian air force and the rockets fired by its jets. That must make the pay-masters very unhappy to see their protégés stifled and handicapped by the lack of matching arsenal.

That’s where our businessman-PM Nawaz Sharif and the years-old Saudi investment in him come into play. The Saudis expect Pakistan to give their Salafi hordes what they currently lack, vis-à-vis the Assad regime’s fire-power. They know the Pakistanis have what they want.

Pakistan has developed its own version of the American, shoulder-fired, Stinger missile. The Pakistani manufacture is actually the Chinese version of Stinger, christened as Anza, which is said to be as effective as Stinger ever was. The Saudis know what havoc the Stinger missile had played on the Soviet gunships and blasted them from the skies over their-occupied Afghanistan. It proved to be the decisive weapon that bolstered the Afghan resistance immensely and broke the back of the Russians, triggering an ignominious retreat from Afghanistan.

The Saudis may be excused if they’re salivating over what magical transformation the Pakistani missiles—anti-aircraft and anti-tank—could bring to the fortunes of their Salafi wards on the battle-field Syria, where they’re currently stymied in a deadlock.

Nawaz Sharif couldn’t be confronted with a more unnerving challenge than this, with his Saudi mentors breathing down his neck. Just look at the grand procession of Saudi royals to Pakistan. Foreign Minister Prince Saud-Al Faisal came in January, followed in February by Crown Prince Salman bin Abdel Aziz, who also happens to be Defence Minister. In between, the new Chief of Army, General Raheel Sharif, was also summoned to Riyadh to be closeted with more royals.

Poor Nawaz Sharif must be feeling the weight of the Saudis over him, especially unnerving when he’s caught at an awkward tangent in the stalled peace dialogue with the Taliban, no different from the Salafis he’s being bamboozled to arm.

Nawaz is a disciple of the Ziaul Haq School when it comes to fidelity to the Saudi royals. But Ziaul Haq’s infatuation with the Saudis was more of a sentimental kind, akin to that of any other middle-class and devoutly religious Pakistani. Nawaz, in contrast, has a more mundane and interest-oriented relationship with them. He isn’t only deeply obligated to them—they were the ones who bailed him out of Musharraf’s claws and sheltered him for long years under their wings. During his exile in the Kingdom, Nawaz & family cultivated deep business interests with them, too. He’d loathe any prospect of incurring their wrath and souring his deeply-entrenched family relations with the Saudi royals.

Also in the works is the issue of moral gumption and courage to say ‘no’ to any outrageous demand from our Saudi friends. Zia had that fibre in him. He was cut from a sturdier cloth and could say to them, sorry, but this wouldn’t wash. He stood up to them and said, no way, when, at the peak of the wasteful and bloody eight-year war between Iraq and Iran he wouldn’t agree to the Pakistani brigade—stationed in Saudia for the safety of its royals following the siege of Kaaba by religious fanatics in 1979—used as mercenaries to bail the then Saudi protégé, Saddam Hussein, out of a tight corner. He was firm that Pakistan wouldn’t countenance any idea of fighting our next-door neighbour, Iran.

Nawaz is up against a rehash of that demand. Arming the Salafi zealots and jihadis , ostensibly against Syria, has a dual-use cachet on it. It’s as much aimed at Iran. But Nawaz is made of softer material and may have a hard time in not obliging his Saudi mentors—if he ever musters enough courage to stand up to them.

So there we are up against a nasty quirk of fate. We’ve our hands full with our own death merchants, the Pakistani Taliban. But our Saudi friends and ‘brothers’ don’t mind piling on our agony and forcing us to walk the plank.

The Foreign Office in Islamabad may go on vehemently denying any side-taking in the Syrian imbroglio. Spokeswoman, Tasneem Aslam, may insist with all her charms on camera that Pakistan has no sense to burn its fingers in the fires of Syria. But the tune is changing, and pundits can sense it.

Up until recently, Pakistan’s staple by-line on Syria said, “Political differences should be resolved through an inclusive dialogue.” But the joint-declaration issued from Islamabad, upon the conclusion of Prince Salman bin Abdel Aziz’visit, on February 19, called for the “formation of a transitional governing body” in Syria. That’s exactly what the badly-divided Syrian Opposition in exile has been insisting on—words clearly put in their mouth by the Saudis and Qataris under-writing their revolt against the Syrian regime. It’s demand for regime-change, by another name. Geneva-2 broke down because of it, because the Syrian Opposition—tutored by their pay-masters—see no role in a transitional government for Assad or anyone of his Baathist regime.

Pakistan may also take the high moral ground on the issue of its arms for the Syrian rebels and Salafi terrorists. But the posture has holes in it. Tasneem Aslam’s press briefing on the issue, on February 27 in Islamabad, was a classic example of bureaucratic non-speak. It said, “The policy guidelines for the sale of arms that we have are in line with the adherence to the purposes and principles of the UN charter.” Make any sense this garbled lingo? But give full marks to Aslam for her wrenching obfuscation. It was typical of the well-bred mandarins of the Foreign Office, who wouldn’t be diplomats if they didn’t master the art of confusing.

In the end, however, it will all come down to Nawaz Sharif’s backbone, if he has one. The Saudis, playing a highly dangerous and inflammable role in the Syrian civil war, have lately been tying themselves into so many knots on their sponsorship of a violently berserk cabal that would like to ink the Arab world in their own script. Let them dig themselves as deep as they fancy into a hole. Why should we get our hands all messed up in pulling them out of it. There’s no earthly reason for Pakistan to go out on a limb to pull the Saudi chestnut out of the fire in Syria, or Iraq, for that matter.

Another caveat for Nawaz should be in order. The Russians have their tail up on the Saudi plan. In an official statement from Moscow, issued on February 25, the Russian government has warned Saudi Arabia to desist from walking down the path of arming the fanatics fighting Damascus. Pakistani weapons for the Salafis could put Islamabad in the cross-hairs of Moscow. It would be reminiscent of the fallout, 54 years ago, from the U-2 incident. Nawaz owes it to his nation to not let history repeat itself in yet another farce. - K_K_ghori@yahoo.com

(The author is a former ambassador and career diplomat)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Paul » 28 Mar 2014 12:04

Green on green debate.

conversation between Pakistan official and learned TTP maulana on the radio. Worth listening in full. Calls Qaid-e-Azam Qaddu-e-Azam. He was an Ismaili and not a muslim. Ali, Hussain etc. are names of Shias and hence a worth of cutletting. PBUH himself ordered killing of women who spoke against him and this is part of Shariat...someone should play this tape in front of Islamist apologists. Calls America as Pakistan;s Uncle. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TD8PA4IZao

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby jamwal » 28 Mar 2014 14:00

Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby kancha » 28 Mar 2014 15:31

Someone just tweeted this link to a serving Paki Army guy's blog. Quite interesting, actually.
xerics.blogspot.in

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby JE Menon » 28 Mar 2014 20:54

Interesting. with a ".in" domain?

Note this Freudian dagger which he slams up his own rear (given as one of the "Reasons Behind Indian Strategic Thinking":

"The 'Muslim Bomb' Factor. The fact that Pakistan is a nuclear power is not taken well by the West. In the garb of our relevance in WoT, the possibility of a western intervention to take over our nuclear weapons has gone remote. However, India comes up as an alternative option to do the dirty work for the West."

Which means, this supposedly Pak army guy is saying Pak Army is the first choice to do the dirty work for the West.

Added later: the blog is stuffed with gems such as "perceptions weighs more than reality", and "Lastly, for the record, I wanted to vote for PTI in these elections, but could not as I failed to receive my Postal Ballot on time, and I felt dejected. But now I think, maybe it was not that bad after all".

There are more.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby member_23252 » 28 Mar 2014 22:58

Columnist, anchor Raza Rumi attacked, driver loses life

LAHORE: An attack on noted columnist and TV anchor Raza Rumi led to the unfortunate death of his driver Mustafa on Friday evening.

Raza Ahmed, popularly known as Raza Rumi, was injured in an attack along with his guard and driver near Raja Market.

According to TV reports, Rumi escaped with a minor injury and managed to shift his guard and driver to the hospital in critical condition.

However, his driver succumbed to his injuries. The guard’s condition is also said to be critical.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby kancha » 28 Mar 2014 23:22

JE Menon wrote:Interesting. with a ".in" domain?

Note this Freudian dagger which he slams up his own rear (given as one of the "Reasons Behind Indian Strategic Thinking":

"The 'Muslim Bomb' Factor. The fact that Pakistan is a nuclear power is not taken well by the West. In the garb of our relevance in WoT, the possibility of a western intervention to take over our nuclear weapons has gone remote. However, India comes up as an alternative option to do the dirty work for the West."

Which means, this supposedly Pak army guy is saying Pak Army is the first choice to do the dirty work for the West.

Added later: the blog is stuffed with gems such as "perceptions weighs more than reality", and "Lastly, for the record, I wanted to vote for PTI in these elections, but could not as I failed to receive my Postal Ballot on time, and I felt dejected. But now I think, maybe it was not that bad after all".

There are more.


It is a goldmine. Includes a powerpoint presentation on the $600mn proposed to be spent on development of FATA!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby ramana » 28 Mar 2014 23:28

Philip, In same vein Chiddu writes in TOI
Sunni Days for Saudis hired gun Pakistan as Obama visits Riyadh

Atleast he is keeping his eye on the TSP ek bal.

Sunni days for Saudi's hired gun Pakistan, as Obama visits Riyadh
Mar 28, 2014, 08.10PM IST TNN[ Chidanand Rajghatta ]

US President Barack Obama headed into Riyadh today evening on a brief visit to Saudi Arabia, a long-time ally with which ties are fraying.
WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama headed into Riyadh on Friday evening on a brief visit to Saudi Arabia, a long-time ally with which ties are fraying amid rapid changes in the region through events that also touches the Indian sub-continent.

Things have soured quite dramatically between Washington and Riyadh, which have long enjoyed an oil-for-security equation from the time President Roosevelt sealed an alliance with Saudi's Founding King Abdul Aziz. But several developments in the region, topped with America's own discovery of a vast trove of energy at home through shale gas exploitation, had disrupted the cozy arrangement. Meanwhile, pressure is growing on the White House to call the Saudi kingdom to account for its human rights excesses and funding of Sunni extremism through the region.

Just ahead of his departure, Amnesty International challenged Obama to take a female Secret Service driver with him to Riyadh to show his displeasure over the medieval Saudi Kingdom's ban on women driving — the only country in the world with such an absurd rule. Some 70 US lawmakers also wrote to the US President urging him to raise critical human rights issue with the Saudis. Earlier this week, Washington feebly complained about the Saudis denying a visa to the Washington-based bureau chief of the Jerusalem Post who planned to cover the Obama visit.

But these will be trifles as Obama deals with what White House sees as larger issues. He will also likely hear a laundry list of complaints from Saudis - the perceived US betrayal of Saudi interests arising from Washington's recent overtures towards Iran, to letting Riyadh down in Syria. In both countries, Saudis are fighting for Sunni influence in the region again Shia-dominated regimes. In neighboring Bahrain, it is backing a minority Sunni regime against a majority Shia uprising.

In fact, the Sunni axis that Saudi Arabia has forged comes close to India's borders, since Pakistan is the hired gun Riyadh has chosen to act as an enforcer. According to reports in the Pakistani media, Saudi Arabia transferred a whopping $1.5 billion to Islamabad earlier this month, ostensibly to shore up Pakistan's economy.

While the Nawaz Sharief government confirmed the transfer as "no-strings-attached" grant from a "friendly" government, the scuttlebutt in strategic circles is that it is payoff for Pakistani foot-soldiers waging Saudi bankrolled jihad in Bahrain and Syria, among other places.

In fact, Washington's biggest fear is that the Saudis are also making sure they have access to the Pakistani nuclear arsenal just in case the US easing of pressure on Teheran results in Shiite Iran going nuclear. The Saudis have said as much, that they will be forced to go nuclear if Iran does. The Saudis are also ticked off with Washington over events in Egypt, where Riyadh is opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood, whose deposed ruler Mohammed Morsi, was backed by Qatar, home to the satellite channel Al Jazeera, which is also seen as being inimical to the Saudi Kingdom.

President Obama enters this snakepit :rotfl: at a time the sentiment in the US is increasingly to withdraw from regions where Washington has no strategic interest. Indeed, the rapid decline in US dependence on middle-east oil, affords this.

But the flip side is Washington's withdrawal will enable the spread of both toxic Sunni fundamentalism and Shiite resurgence that will come with an invigorated Iran. Both developments will bring trouble to the India-Pakistan region.

[b]On its part, the Obama administration has ignored every report pointing to Pakistani malfeasance - from the sheltering of Osama bin Laden by its military-intelligence, to its secret nuclear deal with the Saudis, to its export of mercenary foot-soldiers to Bahrain and Syria. With Secretary of State John Kerry seemingly well disposed to it, Islamabad is easing its way back into American favor.

As a first stem, the US is reported to be considering channeling some of the huge surplus of military equipment in Afghanistan, worth some $7 billion, to Pakistan, even as it exits from the region. None of this augurs well for a new government that will come into place in New Delhi in May, particularly given India's own bilateral problems with Washington over trade and administrative issues that has put the strategic dialogue on the backburner.




ME snakepit is frequent playground for US. Also MSNBC had the Jerusalem Post attached to White house press corps, a US citizen who was denied KSA visa. The Amnest Intl wants US President to take a female driver.

All these are futile fulminations of powerless elites when the USPOTUS is at Sunni mercy ue o his own political over reach.

Very clearly the 2014 US draw-down was ill planned and having committed it was ill prepared. Hence this Haj to Riyadh.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby BijuShet » 29 Mar 2014 00:35

From Tribune news article :
Express News anchor Raza Rumi targeted in gun attack
By Web Desk
Published: March 28, 2014

LAHORE: Analyst and Express News show “Khabar Se Agay” anchor Raza Rumi, came under a gun attack in Lahore on Friday evening, in which his driver, Mustafa, was killed and his guard injured.
This is the fifth attack on Express Media group.

Talking to Express News Rumi said unidentified armed men opened fire on his car near Raja Market. He added that doctors had termed the condition of his driver as critical. The driver later succumbed to his injuries. While his guard was also injured in the incident.
Rumi added that although he had not received any direct threats but he was reportedly on the hit list of some extremist organisations.
Afterwards, an ashen faced and visibly shaken Rumi was escorted by police officials.
Talking to Express News Rumi said, “I never wanted anyone to get hurt because of me.”
Narrating the incident, Rumi said “As soon as firing started I ducked, and hid myself between the car seats,” said Rumi. He added that when the firing stopped he saw that the driver was severely injured and the guard was calling for help.

“One private company guard brought us a rickshaw to rush the injured to the hospital and then police arrived.”
Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif has also taken notice of the attack.
Talking to media, CCPO Lahore said 11 bullet shells were recovered from the crime scene.

Condemnations
Talking to Express News Information Minister Pervaiz Rashid says the government, including the prime minister condemn this attack.
Chairman Pakistan Tehreel-e-Insaf Imran Khan also condemned the attack and demanded that government must provide security to journalists and bring the culprit to the task.

Leader of the opposition in Punjab Assembly Mian Mehmoodur Rashid condemning the attack said that a resolution would be submitted in Punjab Assembly against the attack.
Chief Minister Sindh Qaim Ali Shah, PPP leaders Faryal Talpur and Qamaruz Zaman Kaira have also condemned cowardly the attack.
Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has also condemned the attack on Raza Rumi.
“We condemn this senseless violence against brave journalists like Raza Rumi, and mourn the loss of his driver,” said CPJ Asia Program Coordinator Bob Dietz. “Critical journalists continue to face enormous risks in Pakistan.”

Earlier on March 19, 2014 a bomb was found outside Express News Peshawar bureau chief Jamshed Baghwan’s house in Murshadabad area of Peshawar.
Friday’s attacks follow the deadly attack in January 2014, when three Express Media Group employees were killed in a gun attack in Karachi.
Last year, two gun and bomb attacks on the Karachi office of Express Media Group had injured at least four people.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby chilarai » 29 Mar 2014 01:03

JE Menon wrote:Interesting. with a ".in" domain?


the .in is the new fangled cloud shloud/content delivery network thingy. You will get the same site if you put other domain like .blogspot.jp/
Last edited by chilarai on 29 Mar 2014 01:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Anujan » 29 Mar 2014 01:05

Old foggies might remember him from his "South Asia equal == equal, Pakistan is largely secular onlee" posts in Pak Tea House (which some Rakshak name "Pak herbs house")

Fellow was proudly declaring on twitter how he is not intimidated by TTP threats and how he will fight for a secular Pakistan.

Probably will now walk with one hand covering his mouth and another covering his musharraf and write a post "South Asian citizens must settle their arguments through debates and not through guns. Both citizens of India and Pakistan should shun gun violence.".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Nandu » 29 Mar 2014 04:43

Well, I remember him much more recently from when he refused to blame TV propaganda against Art of Living for the attack on their center.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/did-p ... ter-n49036

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby saip » 29 Mar 2014 04:56

If the blog is by a Paki, why is he mentioning expenditure in Indian rupees with Pakistani rupee value in brackets?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Prem » 29 Mar 2014 05:51

Artificial, Pretend H&D:Bhookha , Baighairat Begger Bretending Badshahi Bragging

Boosting forex reserves: Pakistan refuses to sell $2.7b worth of gold says IMF
( Reserves in Gold are War Booty Reserved meant for Taliban)

MALSIAMABAD: Pakistan has refused to sell gold worth $2.7 billion, citing national security reasons, as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) pushes Islamabad to convert the precious metal into cash to build foreign currency reserves, revealed the global lender’s report on Friday.According to the report, the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) holds over 2 million troy ounces of monetary gold, having $2.7 billion value at market rate. It is not counted in gross international reserves as it is not deemed to be liquid by the SBP, says the IMF.The IMF and Pakistan authorities discussed what steps would be needed to make gold more liquid, the report adds. “However, the (Pakistani) authorities stressed that they have no plans to sell gold and preferred existing arrangements for gold holdings for national security reasons.”The IMF is pushing Pakistan to sell gold holdings at a time when other countries are buying the commodity as a strategic reserve. The IMF had even sold its surplus gold to India a couple of years ago.According to analysts, one reason behind the IMF’s insistence could be the country’s inability to build official foreign currency reserves despite being in the $6.7 billion IMF arrangement.While the IMF hinted in its report that the SBP was not aggressive in building foreign currency reserves, it disclosed that Pakistan’s central bank continued its efforts to build reserves by purchasing dollars from the market.While the federal government remains reluctant to officially disclose the name of the country that ‘gifted’ Pakistan $1.5 billion despite persistent demand of the opposition, the IMF report identifies it as Saudi Arabia.A “$750 million grant recently received from Saudi Arabia” will help the Pakistan government in reducing borrowings from the SBP for budget financing, said the IMF.In a footnote to the MEFP, Pakistan told the IMF that it received an initial inflow of $750 million on February 19, indicating that it would receive more money.For the 2014-15 fiscal year, the IMF expected Pakistan’s growth to accelerate to around 3.7 per cent.The IMF report said the growth was boosted by a stronger manufacturing industry thanks to an easing of Pakistan’s chronic electricity shortages, despite weaknesses in agriculture.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby SSridhar » 29 Mar 2014 07:51

Nandu wrote:Well, I remember him much more recently from when he refused to blame TV propaganda against Art of Living for the attack on their center.

He used to visit India very frequently and used to write in TFT on those visits, especially to Delhi where he has a close friend Saadia Dehelvi. He is interested in Sufism.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby partha » 29 Mar 2014 08:17

He is also associated with ISI funded "Jinnah Institute".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby SSridhar » 29 Mar 2014 09:16

From NightWatch for the night of 27th March 2014
Pakistan: For the first time in 10 years, direct peace talks were held on 26 March between the government and the Pakistani Taliban, known as the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). Five members of the TTP's central Shura and the four members of the government's special committee met at a secret location in Orakzai Agency, in the tribal region of northwest Pakistan. The talks mainly focused on conditions for extending the 1 March ceasefire. The TTP wanted some 300 non-combatant detainees - women, children and elderly -- released; an end to extra-judicial killings of TTP prisoners in government custody and the creation of a "peace zone" in the tribal area in which government troops would not operate.. The government agreed to release some non-combatants in return for extending the ceasefire and for agreeing to hold additional negotiations. The Taliban also agreed to investigate the activities of the Ahrarul Hind, a splinter Taliban group that rejects talks and has executed several deadly attacks to protest them.

Comment: The fact of the meeting is a breakthrough that keeps a campaign promise made by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. However, real progress towards establishing peace will be made, if at all, in secret talks, which some Pakistani analysts say are also taking place. The meeting was good public relations for both sides. What really is happening, in the judgment of NightWatch, is that the Pakistan government and the Pakistani Taliban are preparing for the departure of US and other NATO military forces from Afghanistan. The restoration of Pakistani hegemony in Afghanistan is an issue on which the TTP and the Pakistani government agree. Peace in Pakistan, even a ceasefire, always signifies a redirection of fighting into Afghanistan. It is worth noting that after US drone attacks all but stopped and Western experts became less voluble, the Pakistanis found they could agree finally on a ceasefire and could hold direct talks for the first time in 10 years.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Paul » 29 Mar 2014 11:08

^^^^SSridhar, Sadia Dehlavi was/is married to a Paki IIRC a few years ago.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Baikul » 29 Mar 2014 12:54

Paul wrote:Green on green debate.

conversation between Pakistan official and learned TTP maulana on the radio. Worth listening in full. Calls Qaid-e-Azam Qaddu-e-Azam. He was an Ismaili and not a muslim. Ali, Hussain etc. are names of Shias and hence a worth of cutletting. PBUH himself ordered killing of women who spoke against him and this is part of Shariat...someone should play this tape in front of Islamist apologists. Calls America as Pakistan;s Uncle. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TD8PA4IZao


I usually lack the patience to go through audio files that long, but am glad I did it for once.

This was brilliant. Fantastic playbook, IMO, on taking on ROPers. Among other gems:

- Real Islam permits killing of women and children during times of war. The Prophet asked his soldiers to do it.
- Real Islam permits, indeed encourages, offensive warfare and Muslims should initiate it everywhere. The Prophet did it.
- Mosques are appropriate sites for storing weapons, including explosives. After all the Prophet himself trained warriors in sword play inside a mosque
- Cutting throats is the practice of the Prophet.
- The Pakistani army rents itself out to Americans to kill Muslims. To take money from a kafir to kill Muslims is a deep sin, hence all Pak fauj are not only worse than the kufar, they are all murtads eligible for wajib-ul- cutletting.
- The TTP are the real Muslims. Look, the TTP even repents its errors- which is what a real Muslim does. For example the TTP apologizes if any one of their men cut the hands or noses or ears of the Pak Fauj enemy. However, does the Pak fauj ever apologize for any of its actions, such as destroying mosques? So who is the real Muslim?
- Pak fauj may claim to build masjids, but the reality is that these are all inside cantonment areas and they don't count.

I have rarely observed such a one sided debate. The TTP spokesman tore the Pak fauji officer a new onw. Several new ones, actually.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby vishvak » 29 Mar 2014 13:12

Some light on real RoP by Taliban and Taliban seem to go by the book, textbook executions and so on and so forth.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

Postby Agnimitra » 29 Mar 2014 14:02

Baikul, I tweeted your post. Thanks for the summary.


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