Eastern Europe/Ukraine

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Aug 2014 17:56

Germans trying to act like they are civilized..

chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1409
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby chanakyaa » 16 Aug 2014 19:27

The Nat. Gas deposits in Eastern Ukraine does not appear to be meaningful to make a big difference. I mean they can pay their way out of the hole, but no competition to Russians.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/745305
MOSCOW, August 16, /ITAR-TASS/. The control over Ukraine’s southeast is important for Kiev first of all because of the shale gas deposits, which Western countries should be developing, head of the State Duma’s international affairs committee Aleksey Pushkov said on Saturday.
Kiev is fighting in Ukraine’s east for the gas reserves: Germany says the reserves make 5,578 billion cubic metres (bcm) [the U.S. reserves are 8,976 bcm]. Control will be from the U.S.,” he wrote on Twitter.
The Yuzivska shale gas field is at the border between the Kharkov and Donetsk regions. The resources are estimated at over four trillion cubic metres. In May 2012, British-Netherlands Shell won the competition for development. Another company, certified for development of deposits in the Dnepropetrovsk-Donetsk area is Ukraine’s Burisma...
Residents of Slavyansk, which is the centre of the Yuzivska deposit, within several past year organised protests against development of the deposit. They even planned to organise a referendum on the issue.
Ecologists are concerned about consequences from hydrofracturing used in production of shale gas. They say the chemicals used are highly poisonous and may affect not only water, but also the air. Experts say utilisation of poisonous substances is still an overdue issue worldwide. The media report many countries have refused from developing deposits of the kind in their own territories - the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, and France.


Total deposits are 25% Europe's annual consumption.

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=15411
Europe, including all EU members plus Turkey, Norway, Switzerland, and the non-EU Balkan states, consumed 18.7 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of natural gas in 2013. Russia supplied 30% (5.7 Tcf) of this volume, with a significant amount flowing through Ukraine. EIA estimates that 16% (3.0 Tcf) of the total natural gas consumed in Europe passed through Ukraine's pipeline network, based on data reported by Gazprom and Eastern Bloc Energy.

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 16 Aug 2014 22:20

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/10867312 ... z3AZps4teT
Separatist leader boasts of fresh tanks and trained troops from Russia.

Not to worry. Ukraine can easily destroy all Russian tanks and men and material and Putin and what not.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Aug 2014 23:20

Ah! The Vodka Couriers are coming in?

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 17 Aug 2014 04:41

Wait. It was all a translation mistake.

Here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28817347
An earlier mistranslation of his words suggested Mr Zakharchenko had said the vehicles were on their way from Russia.


What he said
"There are, at present, in the axis of the corridor [linking rebels in Donetsk with those in Luhansk and the Russian border] - there have been assembled -reserves of the following order: 150 units of military hardware of which about 30 are actual tanks and the rest are infantry fighting vehicles and armoured personnel carriers, and 1,200 personnel who underwent four months of military training on the territory of the Russian Federation."


And more
"The Ukrainian military have left us so much hardware that we can't find enough people to crew it - I mean tanks, troop carriers, Grad [multiple rocket] launchers and so on,"
:mrgreen:

And for Ukraine destroying the Russian armored vehicles
Russia's defence ministry responded by saying the incursion reports were "some kind of fantasy"

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 17 Aug 2014 05:15

But here is the masterstroke.
US journalists are already analysing Ukraine`s destruction of Russia`s invasion force.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /14134163/
Analysis: Ukraine attack on convoy sends tough message. :eek:

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Aug 2014 05:55

This is all perfectly reasonable and true. Here is how:

The UkBapZis went charging into Free DonBass or whatever they call it. They neglected to look closely at the DonBassis standing on either side of the road cheering and waving underwear at them. After they had passed, these cheerers simply got on the road and trudged after the receding columns - until the columns stopped. Then the DonBassi CheerLeaders, now forming a full circle around the UkBapZis, offered them a deal: road is open ahead if u want to run, all the way to refuge inside Russia. But pls kindly leave yuwar APCs, tanks, GRADs, uniforms, etc. keep ur brown knickers.

We saw the result: most UkBapZis Saw The Light and were Born Again, inside Russia.

But SOME tried driving back towards Kiev. They got turned into Chicken Kiev. Quite possibly by the panicked UkBapZis across the Dnieper, who thought they were The Russians Are Coming!

And UkBapZistan News promptly claimed credit saying "much of this column does not exist any more". Totally correct. Some were destroyed, others surrended and ran to Russia. BUT, they were initially sent from Kiev not from Donetsk, Russia.

See? And you accuse the UkBapZis of LYING? :shock: How unfair!

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Austin » 17 Aug 2014 12:46

Michael Savage Interviews Dr. Stephen Cohen on Obama, Putin & The Ukraine.


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Austin » 17 Aug 2014 12:49

udaym wrote:MOSCOW, August 16, /ITAR-TASS/. The control over Ukraine’s southeast is important for Kiev first of all because of the shale gas deposits, which Western countries should be developing, head of the State Duma’s international affairs committee Aleksey Pushkov said on Saturday.
Kiev is fighting in Ukraine’s east for the gas reserves: Germany says the reserves make 5,578 billion cubic metres (bcm) [the U.S. reserves are 8,976 bcm]. Control will be from the U.S.,” he wrote on Twitter.


We are talking about Shale Gas , where till date even the most successful Shale gas exploited in US companies are running and loss and bankruptcy , let the QE end and we will see how long Shale survives.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Austin » 17 Aug 2014 13:07


RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 17 Aug 2014 14:07

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine- ... 1408201146

Ukraine Plays Down Significance of Destruction of Russian Military Convoy

Now why would the jokers do that?!
Wouldnt this get more American accolades for the Ukbapzis?
Or like everything else said by Ukraine, this one is a poor joke too. Just what the Russian Federation says.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 17 Aug 2014 18:09

Is Poroshenko "taking something" for his nerves,or did his men shoot their own forces by accident? May be so, why 17 UKR troops defected to Russia.Reinforcements on the way for the Donetsk Republic?
Finally the UKR relents after all the western/UKR BS about Russia's humanitarian convoy being stocked with milware.If you keep lying all the time,eventually you will be found out.Why there is absolute silence about the shooting down of the MH flight! The West well knows that it was the UKR forces "who dun it"

Ukraine crisis: 'We are getting tanks and reinforcements from Russia,' says separatist leader
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 73628.html

Prime minister of Donetsk People's Republic says rebels are in the process of receiving some 150 armoured vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he says have spent four months training in Russia

Ukrainian rebels are receiving new armoured vehicles and fighters trained in Russia, with which they plan to counter-attack against government forces, a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday.

The four-month conflict in eastern Ukraine has reached a critical phase, with Kiev and Western governments watching nervously to see if Russia will intervene in support of the increasingly besieged rebels - an intention Moscow denies.

Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armoured vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

“They are joining at the most crucial moment,” he said in a video recorded on Friday. He did not specify where the vehicles would come from.

Moscow has come under heavy Western sanctions over its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea and accusations it is supporting separatists in east Ukraine with fighters, arms and funds. Russia denies those charges.
Ukraine crisis: Russian 'aid' convoy heads straight for rebels in Luhansk as fears intensify of 'direct invasion'

Zakharchenko's comments came a day after Ukraine said it partially destroyed an armoured column that had crossed the border from Russia. The report triggered a sell-off in global stocks, with markets fearful of open confrontation between Russia and Western-backed Ukraine.

But Moscow made no threat of retaliation, instead saying it was a “fantasy” that its armoured vehicles had entered its neighbour's territory. In Washington, the White House said it could not confirm that Russian vehicles had been attacked on Ukrainian soil.

The rebels, who have ceded ground to government forces in recent weeks, have been promising a counter-offensive for several days but have yet to launch one.

Ukrainian native Zakharchenko took over from Russian citizen Alexander Borodai last week and his combative comments will probably dash hopes that changes at the top of the rebel leadership might signal willingness to end hostilities.

Adding to the tensions, Russia and Ukraine have been at loggerheads for days over a convoy of 280 Russian trucks carrying water, food and medicine, which remained about 20 km (12 miles) from the Ukrainian border, unmoved since Friday.

Officials from the International Committee of the Red Cross said most procedures had been agreed by Russia and Ukraine but the two sides still needed to figure out how to provide security before the convoy moves ahead under the ICRC's aegis. It was not clear when a deal on security could be agreed.

Russia says it is a purely humanitarian mission in support of civilians in areas hit by the conflict, but Ukraine is concerned it could serve as a Trojan Horse to infiltrate military supplies or create a pretext for armed intervention.

The crisis has dragged relations between Russia and the West to their lowest point since the Cold War and set off a round of trade restrictions that are hurting struggling economies both in Russia and Europe. The United Nations said this week that an estimated 2,086 people had been killed, with nearly 5,000 wounded.

The Finnish President, Sauli Niinisto, held talks in Kiev with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, a day after discussing how to settle the crisis with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“I do not see a great risk of an outright war,” Niinisto said. “My hopefulness is based on the fact that communication is open, at least by a crack.”

France said a meeting of Ukrainian, Russian, German and French foreign ministers scheduled in Berlin on Sunday could be a first step towards a peace summit. Drivers with the Russian convoy Drivers with the Russian convoy

A rebel Internet news outlet said on Saturday that separatist fighters had killed 30 members of a Ukrainian government battalion in fighting in Luhansk province, a rebel-held area of eastern Ukraine adjacent to the Russian border.

A Ukrainian military spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, contradicted the rebel assertions. He said three Ukrainian servicemen had been killed over the past 24 hours.

In the past few hours Ukrainian security forces had spotted Russian drones and a helicopter crossing illegally into Ukraine's airspace, Lysenko told a news briefing.

He denied Kiev's forces were firing artillery on Donetsk, one of two rebel strongholds in the east, where a Reuters reporter said the sound of explosions was audible in the city centre on Saturday.

The Donetsk city administration said four people were killed in shelling that destroyed homes and set several buildings on fire.

The momentum on the ground is with the Ukrainian forces, who have pushed the separatists out of large swathes of territory and nearly encircled them in Donetsk and Luhansk. Kiev says it now controls the road linking the two cities.

Russia says the Ukrainian offensive is causing a humanitarian catastrophe for the civilian population in the two cities. It accuses Kiev's forces of indiscriminately using heavy weapons in residential areas, an allegation Ukraine denies.

In the past week, three senior rebel leaders have been removed from their posts, pointing to mounting disagreement over how to turn the tide of the fighting back in their favour.

Lysenko, the Ukrainian military spokesman, said he had reports of rebel fighters abandoning their posts in Luhansk, and preparing to leave Donetsk and seek safe haven in Russia.

“A mood of panic is spreading and rebels are trying to leave through the small gaps that remain,” he said.

In Donetsk, the red, blue and black flag of separatists was flying on a pole in front of the headquarters. Ten people armed with Kalashnikov rifles were standing on guard outside the main entrance in mismatched camouflage.

“Why should we flee? People are still coming and filling our ranks. Those who have lost their houses to Ukrainian shelling, what else would they do but fight back?,” said a fighter who gave his name as Communist.



http://rt.com/news/180844-ukraine-recog ... arian-aid/
Ukraine officially recognizes Russian aid convoy as humanitarian
Published time: August 16, 2014

Ukraine Minister of Social Policy Lyudmila Denisova has signed an order officially recognizing the Russian convoy stuck at the border as humanitarian aid cargo of the International Committee of the Red Cross.

"In accordance with Articles 4 and 5 of the Law of Ukraine 'On Humanitarian Aid' considering the initiative of the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko on receiving humanitarian aid within the framework of international humanitarian missions under the auspices of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) to recognize the cargo as humanitarian aid,” the document reads.

Russian and Ukrainian officials have agreed on Sunday to proceed with the inspection of the first group of 16 Russian trucks of the humanitarian convoy, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said.

The ICRC will be supervising the delivery of the aid and will go ahead after it receives security guarantees from the warring sides in Ukraine.

The Russian aid shipment consists of 12 types of goods weighting 1856.3 tons according to an official letter from the Red Cross received by the Ukrainian ministry on Saturday, which complies with the cargo declared by Russia.

“The recipient of humanitarian aid is the mission of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Ukraine. The cargo will be moved into Ukraine by the ICRC through the 'Donetsk' checkpoint,” Kiev cited the ICRC letter.

Kiev granted Russian cargo humanitarian aid status after the Red Cross sent a petition to Kiev to allow the Russian humanitarian aid to enter eastern Ukraine, after the Russian cargo was held at the Ukrainian border since August 14.

Russia sent 280 trucks with medical supplies, food, including baby food, sleeping bags and other basic necessities to southeastern Ukraine on Tuesday. But the cargo still has not reached the residents of the regions badly hit by the conflict as the Kiev government has procrastinated in designating Russian aid as humanitarian cargo.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2014 01:27

"And another one hits the deck..!"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -shot-down
Ukrainian fighter plane shot down by pro-Russia rebels
Foreign ministers of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France due to meet in Berlin, and 10 civilians killed in shelling in Donetsk
Ukrainian fighter plane shot down by pro-Russia rebels
Foreign ministers of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France due to meet in Berlin, and 10 civilians killed in shelling in Donetsk

Agence France-Presse in Donetsk
theguardian.com, Sunday 17 August 2014

Pro-Russia rebels shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet on Sunday, before Kiev and Moscow's top diplomats were due to hold urgent talks to defuse tensions over fighting in the east of the ex-Soviet nation.

Ukraine's military said its MiG-29 warplane had been shot down as it carried out "an assignment to eliminate a large group of terrorists" in the Luhansk region. The pilot managed to parachute to safety, it said.

Authorities in the main rebel city of Donetsk said shelling had killed 10 civilians in 24 hours as government forces pressed on with an offensive to oust separatists.

Meanwhile, Germany demanded that Moscow clarify boasts by a rebel leader in the besieged city that he had recently received hundreds of fighters trained in Russia to bolster the flagging rebellion.

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, Ukraine's foreign minister, Pavlo Klimkin, and their French and German counterparts are due to meet in Berlin.

Klimkin tweeted: "Flying to Berlin. The talks will not be easy. It is important to stop the flow of weapons and mercenaries from Russia."

The French president, François Hollande, called for Ukraine to show "restraint and good judgment" in its military operations, after boasts by Kiev that it had destroyed part of a small military convoy from Russia. He suggested the talks could pave the way for a face-to-face encounter between the Russian and Ukrainian heads of state.

Russia had dismissed the incursion claims as "fantasies", but resisted the urge to strike back, as it again denied the persistent allegations from the west that it is arming the rebels.

The fate of a Russian aid convoy parked up near the border since Thursday remained uncertain despite both sides appearing to edge closer to a deal to let it into Ukraine.

The Red Cross said its officials had arrived at an area where 300 Russian trucks were waiting, but official inspections of the cargo were yet to begin. AFP journalists later saw a group of 16 trucks head in the direction of the crossing.

The west and Kiev fear that the convoy could be a Trojan horse to help the rebels in eastern Ukraine, or provide Moscow with an excuse to send in the 20,000 troops that Nato says it has massed on the border.

The International Committee of the Red Cross, which is overseeing the aid delivery, has said Russia and Ukraine have agreed on procedures to check the cargo, but "security guarantees" are still needed on how the vehicles can cross rebel-held territory.

Kiev recognised the "legality" of the humanitarian convoy in a statement published on the government website, moving closer to giving the green light for the trucks to enter its territory.

Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko, told the US vice-president, Joe Biden, on Saturday that the separatists had yet to grant safe passage for the aid.

Russia's foreign ministry has repeatedly demanded that Kiev cease fire in order for the aid to reach residents of blighted cities in eastern Ukraine who have been stuck for days without water or power.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3829
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby suryag » 18 Aug 2014 04:37

Omg!! these Mig29s they don't need fizayas to be shot down simple rag tag rebels are enough to bring these down, wonder why IAF upgrades this antique airshow queen

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2014 06:14

Old birds,not the UG version which is a diff. species altogether,plus flown by incompetent UKR pilots.Most of the action by the UKR air farce has been against separatist targets on the ground,requiring close support ops. A few SU-25s have also been shot down ,the type may be low on spares/support too,which may be why the UKR is using its MIGs for the CS role,as the rebels have no air force! I guess that the rebels also have some later models of Russian MANPADs,quite lethal at low alts. Many of the shooting down incidents have also been around airfields when aircraft/helos are landing or taking off.This indicates that the surrounding areas of the bases have not been sanitised.More details of how,where,when the MIG was shot down would give a fuller picture.

PS:16 more MIG-29SMTs have been ordered by Russia to be delivered by 2016,before orders for MIG-35s are placed.Some time ago thee was a report about shifting the existing MIG production facility into a new modernised one.Work on a MIG-31 replacement is also underway.

It is rapidly becoming clear that the sanctions imposed upon Russia are actually hurting the EU most! The huge mountain of pork and dairy products are overwhelming the EU,with other states around the world eager to replace the Europeans as major suppliers.A great opportunity for India cos. to do so.The German market has tanked badly and Frau Merkel is working overtime to broker a peace between Russia and the UKR junta,as it is being hurt the most,with "Gen.Winter" looming closer each day when the UKR will simply freeze to both economic and climatic death,should Russia turn off the tap of gas !

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... fire-talks
Russia and Ukraine ministers to meet in Berlin for ceasefire talks

Pavlo Klimkin and Sergei Lavrov will be joined by German counterparts in latest attempt to negotiate an end to fighting
Last edited by Philip on 18 Aug 2014 14:12, edited 1 time in total.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2014 07:07

Wonder if the MiG was downed from below or above?

vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1108
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby vijaykarthik » 18 Aug 2014 08:11


Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Raja Bose » 18 Aug 2014 08:18

UlanBatori wrote:Wonder if the MiG was downed from below or above?


:rotfl:

Shanmukh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2971
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Shanmukh » 18 Aug 2014 08:57

Philip wrote:Old birds,not the UG version which is a diff. species altogether,plus flown by incompetent UKR pilots.Most of the action by the UKR air farce has been against separatist targets on the ground,requiring close support ops. A few SU-25s have also been shot down ,the type may be low on spares/support too,which may be why the UKR is using its MIGs for the CS role,as the rebels have no air force! I guess that the rebels also have some later models of Russian MANPADs,quite lethal at low alts. Many of the shooting down incidents have also been around airfields when aircraft/helos are landing or taking off.This inicates that the surrounding areas of the bases have not been sanitised.More details of how,where,when the MIG was shot down would give a fuller picture.


Philip-ji,
You are going into complex explanations, when, IMO, a more simple one is more likely. The UkBapZis are running out of trained pilots, and are letting rightwing nuts, high on vodka, have a go with machines. The rest I leave to your imagination. Only lesson to be learnt is that ideology and ability to shout `Death to the Russians' is not sufficient replacement for flying competence.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2014 14:19

Nagesh,Ha!Ha! However,the MIG-29 requires highly trained pilots.May I offer another possible explanation which fits in with what you've said? The UKR pilots are in absolute fright of being shot down,with so many of their aircraft and helos embracing mother earth.They are sh*tting bricks and require pampers to prevent soiling their cockpits.Pun intended! Thus the "topping up" of internal "fuel" of which Comrade Putin has made vast quantities to be freely distributed amongst the UKR military.With such Dutch courage,or should we now say,Kiev courage,the UKR pilots fully charged ,are ready to face even aliens!

Latest reports:Refugee convoy attacked,many civilian deaths.the UKR junta immediately blamed the rebel/Russkies,which they vehemently denied. This looks like a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing of the east,ISIS style,by the UKR mercenary oligarch forces whio are under direct control by the US,and West alleged by Russia.

http://rt.com/news/180972-ukraine-west-influence-army/
​West has more influence than Kiev on oligarchs’ armies in Ukraine – Lavrov
Published time: August 18, 2014

Moscow believes the West has more influence on various paramilitary forces in Ukraine - sponsored by local oligarchs - than Kiev does, Russian FM said citing the latest bickering between Right Sector and the Interior Ministry.

“The authorities in Kiev are not in control of the numerous paramilitary forces, including Right Sector, which, we estimate, comprises a large portion of the National Guard. The demarche of Right Sector towards the Ukrainian Interior Minister speaks for itself,” Sergey Lavrov said, adding that existence of armed groups sponsored by Ukrainian oligarchs, such as the Azov and Dnepr battalions, poses a great security threat.


“We work with our Western partners in Europe and the United States who can really influence those paramilitary units that don’t answer to the central government in Kiev. We know the West has such influence,” he added.

Lavrov was referring to the weekend ultimatum of the far-right group, which threatened to pull out its troops from eastern Ukraine and march on Kiev unless President Petro Poroshenko fires several police officials, including a deputy interior minister. The group later reduced its demands, saying that the release of its activists previously arrested by the police was sufficient.

The comments from the top Russian diplomat came as he reported on the progress achieved during the Sunday meeting with his counterparts from Ukraine, Germany and France. The roundtable produced no concrete agreements, but the parties involved said some progress was made on the issues of humanitarian aid and border control.

Speaking to journalists on Monday, Lavrov said Moscow would welcome the observer mission of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) deploying drones to control the Russian-Ukrainian border from the Ukrainian side.

Lavrov said Russia is working with the OSCE on giving more transparency in the border region, which is important, considering how often Kiev voices false reports on alleged violation of the border from the Russian side. He cited the latest claim by Kiev on Friday, when the Ukrainian military said it had destroyed a column of Russian armor after an incursion into Ukraine.

“What really happened was a Ukrainian column moved in the Lugansk Region, obviously to intercept the rout of a potential humanitarian aid delivery. That column was destroyed by the militia,” he said. “If such episodes are presented as glorious successes of the Ukrainian army, then please don’t accuse us of anything.”

Russia has sent a convoy of humanitarian aid meant for war-torn eastern Ukraine. The trucks have not been allowed entry by the Ukrainian side, which voiced suspicions about the nature of the cargo and demanded that the delivery be conducted by the International Committee of the Red Cross.

Lavrov noted that the media hype over the mission, which was apparent in the West in its early days, evaporated as soon as it became clear that the column actually carries humanitarian aid and is not some kind of a trick used by Russia to invade Ukraine, as Kiev initially claimed.

The minister also criticized Kiev’s request for NATO’s aid against the militia in eastern Ukraine, saying that it “goes against all the agreements we had reached on stopping the hostilities and initiating negotiations.”

“As long as the authorities in Kiev bet on the use of force and consider a military victory over their own people a necessary condition for keeping themselves in power, I don’t think any good will come from what we are trying to achieve,” he said.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby svinayak » 18 Aug 2014 20:58

^^^^


BY ALL appearances, Putin does not want (with or without Western sanctions) to invade Ukraine and accept the enormous costs of absorbing all or part of it even if some rhetoric clearly could be viewed as a threat to Kiev and encouragement to pro-Russian elements. Since the United States and European Union are likewise unprepared to fight to reverse the annexation of Crimea, the current standoff may remain under control for the time being. What we need to understand, however, is that Ukraine is today’s equivalent of both the Balkans and the Middle East of the Sykes-Picot era—an artificially divided land, assembled by Soviet Communist leaders on the basis of arbitrary borders. It includes people who speak different languages, have different religions, belong to different cultures and even civilizations, and have rather different aspirations.


They have created another geopolitical swamp in the middle of Europe. Only Germany understands how this will bring the fall of Europe.
This may be the way to control the major economies in Europe so that they are on leash and lose their dominance in the world.

The Roots of Balkanization: Eastern Europe C.E. 500-1500
link

Plus this info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Theory

vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1108
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby vijaykarthik » 19 Aug 2014 19:38

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-1 ... ops-arrive

Pretty much on expected lines. But still an interesting development. Encirclement strategy to see if he blinks?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2014 23:05

Deal in the making brokered by the Germans? The heavy financial cost to the Europeans is making them blink and wanting an early end to the crisis.The Chocolate soldier will shortly have to choose between the EU and the US,the latter along with pet poodle the UK,wishing to star another Cold War.

http://rt.com/news/181376-putin-eu-ukraine-meeting/
Putin to attend talks with Ukraine president & EU reps August 26 in Minsk
Published time: August 19, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart, Petro Poroshenko, will meet on August 26 in the Belarusian capital, Minsk, the Kremlin said.

The talks will take place as part of a summit between leaders of the countries in the Eurasian Customs Union - Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan - with the Ukrainian president and representatives of the European Commission.

A number of bilateral meetings between the heads of states will also take place in Minsk.

The leaders "will discuss the relations between Ukraine and the Customs Union and there will be a number of bilateral meetings," Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

A woman cries in a suburb of Donetsk, after shelling burned several houses on August 17, 2014. (AFP Photo / Dimitar Dilkoff)

Poroshenko has confirmed the talks in a statement, saying that “stabilizing the situation” in eastern Ukraine would be a key topic to discuss with the Russian president.

In Minsk, the European Union will be represented by foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, Energy Commissioner Günther Oettinger and Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht.

Putin and Poroshenko last met during the D-Day anniversary commemorations in Normandy, France on June 6 – a day before Poroshenko’s inauguration as Ukrainian president.

A firefighter extinguishes a fire in a suburb of Donetsk after a shelling on August 17, 2014. (AFP Photo / Max Vetrov)
On that occasion, Putin told journalists that he welcomed Poroshenko’s peace plan for eastern Ukraine and fully shared his position that the bloodshed “should be immediately stopped.”

Kiev's bloody eastern Ukraine campaign LIVE UPDATES

However, those promises turned out to be empty, as Ukrainian troops vigorously pursued their military operation in the country’s Donetsk and Lugansk regions, where a majority of the population is demanding federalization.

According to the UN’s estimates, over 2,000 people have been killed and over 5,000 wounded in the fighting in southeast Ukraine since April.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21057
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2014 23:53

Some UKR issues,which show up the false propaganda being put out by the UKR/mercenary team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ieved.html

Ukraine convoy attack: 'We were riding with white flag' say survivors as 15 bodies retrieved
Ukrainian military recover 15 bodies from wreckage of shelled refugee convoy as street fighting rages in nearby Ukraine

http://rt.com/news/
Kiev must publish record of MH17 communications with traffic control – Russia
Kiev should make public the records of communications between the Ukrainian air traffic control and the Malaysian Airlines flight 17 in the hours before it was shot down over Ukraine’s turbulent east, Russia’s UN envoy said.

No ammunition moved through Russia-Ukraine border - OSCE monitors
OSCE observers stationed at two Russian border checkpoints, the Ukrainian counterparts of which are controlled by the Ukrainian military, have not witnessed any movements of weapons across the border.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2014 02:57

Guys, En Pee Aarr reports block-by-block urban combat in Luhansk, Donetsk about to fall. What is Putin Bhaiyya doing?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 20 Aug 2014 08:23, edited 1 time in total.

jimmyray
BRFite
Posts: 125
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 02:05
Location: 66° 33′39″ North of Equator

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby jimmyray » 20 Aug 2014 07:48

Ukrainian army had major setbacks on two fronts today ILOVAISK in south and in Lugansk suburbs. They blame it on Russian army suddenly appearing in these two places and helping rebels. Russian Magic :D
This is on the Ukrainian propaganda site:
Donbas battalion suffers heavy losses, withdraws from battle

Russian troops and equipment enter Luhansk
Rebels of course deny this and claim it is the militia trained in Russia with captured armor

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 20 Aug 2014 10:42

Luhansk has been falling forever. So has Donetsk. It is likely going to take at least another week before any of that happens if it happens at all.

Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Virupaksha » 20 Aug 2014 10:54

RSoami wrote:Luhansk has been falling forever. So has Donetsk. It is likely going to take at least another week before any of that happens if it happens at all.

it seems like a "assad fall" redux.

I wonder what would be ISIS equivalent?

vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1108
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby vijaykarthik » 20 Aug 2014 11:50

^^ ISIS eq will be attempts at capturing Baghdad, surely?

vijaykarthik
BRFite
Posts: 1108
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby vijaykarthik » 20 Aug 2014 11:52

The more I think of it, the more it seems like Putin and Poroshenko have arrived at some agreement. We might see some dev in the upcoming talks?

Do wonder what it would be. One thing is for sure - the minute Ukraine talks up EU integration / NATO membership, all bets are off. And Putin might perhaps disintegrate Ukraine b(ol)lock by b(ol)lock?

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 20 Aug 2014 15:11

One thing is for sure - the minute Ukraine talks up EU integration / NATO membership, all bets are off.

EU integration should be ok. EU integration of Ukraine will mean disintegration of EU with ts super duper economic prowess.

And its highly unlikely that Putin and Poroshenko have arrived t any agreement.
Ukraine has not been able to complete a victory in the east. Poroshenko wants to continue the war. He cant upset the americans with a ceasefire. But he can ill afford to upset EuroPeons paying for his war.
Russia wants a ceasefire.Decentralisation. Autonomy for the east.
They are poles apart in their positions.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2014 16:57

Russia wants a ceasefire. Decentralisation. Autonomy for the east.

Really? Why? Thinking through this, it's beginning to sound like the old "India Wants a Pigsty Stable Pakistan" assumption.

Seems like every day the war goes on, the UkBapZi economy, war supplies, and the enthusiasm of the UkBapZis are all getting degraded. And all outside Russia's borders. This is the only way I can explain the post above:
Luhansk and Donetsk have been falling forever


Every time it looks like the UkBapZis are "winning", something bad happens to one of their commanders, or a convoy or a battalion. And they run back, regroup, get reinforcements (that they really can't afford) and come back for more. Get sucked in that much more. And more. All across a few bridges over the Dnieper.....

I guess UkBapZis don't learn about Napoleon?

How many bridges ARE there over the Dnieper? Multiply the number by 4 to get the number of sorties needed to totally cut off the UkBapZis. Unless the get massive reinforcements from NATO with paratroopers and air cover, the UkBapZis are heading for total collapse, AS LONG AS THERE IS NO CEASEFIRE.

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 20 Aug 2014 19:24

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine ... 61186.html

Ukraine Defence Ministry : More than 1,000 Ukrainian troops captured

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 20 Aug 2014 20:00

Seems like the Ukbapzis have been hit hard near Donetsk

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine ... 61285.html

“There is no way for them to get out of Ilovask,” wrote Levin citing his colleague. He added that two other volunteer battalions, Azov and Dnipro, managed to leave the area earlier in the day.


Its the same battle after which the Donbass battalion withdrew.

Also the easterners have broken through to Luhansk.

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Victor » 20 Aug 2014 21:27

According to the report above, 80% of the Donbas Battalion is made up of folks from Eastern Ukraine, most likely non-ethnic Russian Ukrainians. 1000+ captured if true is a significant turning point and says a lot about the military capability of the riff-raff.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2014 21:33

The key phrase is:

Actual figure could be much higher.
Suggests that they have lost contact with many more units and suspect that they are out of play.

Loved this comment there:
Nikita Granger · Erasmus University Rotterdam
KyivPost keeps reporting that the People's Militia in Novorossiya are totally weak and incompetent.
Meanwhile, the UN and OSCE both say that Russia is not supplying any weapons to Novorossiya.
So if the People's Militia in Novorossiya are totally incompetent, and recieve no aid from Russia, AND the Ukrainian military is struggling to defeat them. What does that make the Ukrainian military?
PS Brent David and his charity is a further testiment to the incompetence of the current Nazi-occupied Kiev government. They need handouts just to feed their own soldiers. Truely a failed state. I am sad America spent $5 billion to make Ukraine this way.


BTW, what should one make of a fine, polished news website in ENGLISH from Kyiv? Surely not intended for the locals, hain? This is for the resident UkBapZis or for their visiting Blackwater/Jubilee Baptist Mission families?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2014 19:21

Russian-Backed, Buk-wielding Ukrainian Terrorists in Kuala Lumpur? :eek:
(apologies to Johann in advance but could not resist) :oops:

Ramesh
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 21:10

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby Ramesh » 21 Aug 2014 20:47

20:37 Ukraine border guards begin checks on Russian aid trucks: Ukrainian border guards began on Thursday to inspect a Russian truck convoy carrying aid earmarked for humanitarian relief in eastern Ukraine that has been stranded at the frontier between the two former Soviet republics for nearly a week.

Kiev believes the convoy of some 260 trucks, carrying water, food and medicines, could prove a Trojan horse for Russia to get weapons to pro-Russian separatists battling Ukrainian forces in the region - a notion that Moscow has dismissed as absurd.

http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2014/aug/21/liveupdates.htm

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby kmkraoind » 21 Aug 2014 21:26

From Twitter @EuromaidanPR and the associated FB link

Image

RSoami
BRFite
Posts: 771
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 14:39

Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Postby RSoami » 21 Aug 2014 21:53

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... talks.html

Another U-turn from Ukraine. Surprisingly US and its cronies didnt come out openly in support and `condemn` Russia.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], Merril and 84 guests