Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 15:11

hypothesis - china took 4 days to release sat images because it probably took them 2 days of intensive manual scrutiny of images to find something to look at, another day to ponder on it technically, another day to ponder on it politically before going public

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby abhischekcc » 13 Mar 2014 15:52

If employees of Freescale were going to China, then it is possible they were smuggling sensitive tech to Beijing. In which case, US is prime suspect in shooting down the plane.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby habal » 13 Mar 2014 16:01

Maybe something like an Electro Magnetic Pulse weapon was used to jam the planes avionics and then to stop the engines after which it dropped out of the sky in the middle of nowhere. This is plausible. But in that case there is no reason for the Chinese or the Malays to dither and hesitate with the facts.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby abhischekcc » 13 Mar 2014 16:03

And if the plane flew for 4 hours after dropping from the radar, it was probably trying to dodge a missile.

And it must have been a reaallly slow missile that could not reach a passenger plane for 4 hours :mrgreen:

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 16:12

diego garcia did lie on last known heading. biggles, james bond and tintin books have mystery islands.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby IndraD » 13 Mar 2014 16:17

is it possible pilots allowed girls in cock pit, had fun, lost control? communication silenced to suppress voices in cockpit?
An Australian television report made waves this week by broadcasting an interview with a young South African woman who said Fariq and another pilot colleague invited them into the cockpit of a flight he co-piloted from Phuket, Thailand to Kuala Lumpur in 2011.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 948010.cms

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby sum » 13 Mar 2014 16:33

abhischekcc wrote:If employees of Freescale were going to China, then it is possible they were smuggling sensitive tech to Beijing. In which case, US is prime suspect in shooting down the plane.

Not really since FSL does have a very legitimate office in China and gets a LOT of its work done out of China office

( Assuming it wasn't a sarcastic remark)

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby krishnan » 13 Mar 2014 16:49

WSJ has confirmed that the pilot had the ability to manually turn off the transponder on Flight MH370. A mid-air catastrophe could have destroyed it. Why is the transponder so significant? WSJ's Jason Bellini has #TheShortAnswer.


hmmmmm

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby habal » 13 Mar 2014 16:55

Can an AWACS or a military satellite jam a commercial airline ? That would explain transponder and radar signature going off together.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 17:01

Clean spool down will mean human agency and will be proof of mangolian theories or at least need for urgent help. Thus also the dhoti shiver re. hijack. Other elements of ACARS may also exist or may not. I stick to original theories. Its just one plane, no need to make a boston marathon out of it.


We are "on the air again" in Northern Himachal. May I point out that it is now 16 (SIXTEEN) hours after CNN was (mis) guided to go read the Chinese Ministry web page and keep tom-tomming nonsense, causing major :rotfl: from Shanghai to Ulan Bator. And of course now they have said that the 3 pieces of trash they posted are not from the aircraft. So there is NO evidence any more that the plane turned east (and why would it?). The report about smoke and metal shards 37miles south of Ho Chi Minh City (former Saigon) was also declared to be not from aircraft.

I haven't read the report about the engine reading after 4 hours: it is probably also misinformation. I think they shut down that sensor/transmitter along with all other transmitters. But if it did indeed cruise along for 4 hours, then we are back to the obvious questions:

1) If they were under (non-hijacker) control, why didn't they fly over land and let people use their cellphones, if it was some weird glitch that caused all their comm devices to shut down?
2) If the engines were running and plane was able to fly level (otherwise, no 4 hours, sorry) why not try to ditch rather than crash?
3) 4 hours from 1:30AM puts you at 5:30AM. The sun rises. Why can't someone tell East from West and North from South at that point? Anyway, loss of navigation is not a possibility: all it takes is one passenger with a Nokia cellphone (free GPS!!!!!), let alone Garmin etc., to tell position and direction. They would have steered towards land and ditched/overflown land/ something.

So we are left with the following options (I mean for the skeptic holdouts):
a) Meteor - but with no flash that would have been detected by the Missile Launch Detection thingies in Space? (NO signals on those, already confirmed)
b) Bird strike at 30,000 feet (how many birds fly up there I wonder, and do they carry oxygen packs?) But even then, where is the wreckage?
c) Electromagnetic storm taking them into the X-Dimension (like what happened to the USS Nimitz, taking it back to Pacific Ocean, Dec. 6, 1941, allowing it to destroy the entire Japanese Naval Air Force without changing history, but making rednecks feel puffed, per this book I read). ..

And as they say, if all other options have been removed, then what remains is The Truth (or a FORTRAN error..):
c
UB CTs Inc. 8)
Seriously, I am beginning to believe it myself. This is truly beyond ridiculous, NO trace, all these conflicting reports, can't get story straight, satellite images posted on GOVERNMENT site without first checking out the area (come on! We are talking about Communist China here!), Malaysian govt. changing Likely Crash Site by 1000 miles every day at random direction...

WHAT alternative is there to the explanation that they are all caught in a need to keep spreading disinformation and try to buy time for James Bond & Alistair MacLean to go find the passengers? Imagine the plight of the relatives!! With AF, everyone KNEW the flight was down, it was just a matter of finding the main wreckage to see why it went down (do we really know yet?)

Here, there is so far ABSOLUTELY NO INDICATION that anything was wrong, remember!!

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 17:03

OK.. MIDAIR COLLISION? With what? F-117? F-22? PAF Bandaar F-666?? Not visible on radar? And no wreckage?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 17:05

Of course there IS one other alternative: that it crashed and went in the ocean right after takeoff. All the "one hour's flight time" is imagination, or some other bird. I bet they have not looked right under their noses. Given the Preet Bharara-level competence exhibited so far, is this implausible? Or maybe it is still sitting on the taxiway awaiting clearance for takeoff.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 17:13

only some geese fly at 30,000ft. they have developed special adaptations over millenia to survive the -50C cold and wind at those heights and fly long haul using wind currents effectively where found. they may look fat, but once the race starts they will kill anyone out there.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby nawabs » 13 Mar 2014 17:17

Well we can rule out the above alternative, the flight is said to have exchanged “Alright, good night” with the ATC before entering vietnamese airspace.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Sri » 13 Mar 2014 17:19

Could it be that RAW knew the talent of people from the FSL flying together on the plane. It made sense for RAW to hijak the plane al together and land it on remote Nicobar island and now brain map these people to develop indigenous capabilities?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 17:26

Singha wrote:only some geese fly at 30,000ft. they have developed special adaptations over millenia to survive the -50C cold and wind at those heights and fly long haul using wind currents effectively where found. they may look fat, but once the race starts they will kill anyone out there.


there have been reports of sightings and some near collisions (if not actual ones) with geese at that alt before. to teh best of my meagre knowledge, no geese migration paths in that region, but possible for some species to be migrating between aus and mongolia

maybe it was the great garuda?

or djinns of course

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby habal » 13 Mar 2014 17:27

@ Sri
someone has done that or US military has just ensured no one does that.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby CRamS » 13 Mar 2014 17:56

Guys, now that the Chinese satellite images turned out to be irrelevant, here is my CT of sorts. I won't go so far as saying that Uncle shot down the plane, but Uncle for sure wants all the H&D he can get, and of course protect all his assets and get the maximum benefit out of this.

Remember, lots of national egos at play here too. The Chinese want to show they are a super dooper, they are honorary whites unlike their "incompetent" their East Asian cousins, i.e., the Malaysians, Vietnamese etc. So the Chinese attempt to make a fool of the latter didn't pan out.

My CT theory is this. Uncle, from day one has enough data with his snooping toys which he could have shared with the Malaysians. But doing so would mean Uncle's contribution would be viewed as part of a larger international team effort. But Uncle wants all the glory. So Uncle with his superior toys (full credit to him for developing such toys) is now involved full scale, will take over the search and recovery efforts, and with great fan fare, through his mouthpieces on CNN/Fox will locate the wreckage. And then triumphantly declare how exceptional he is, and his UK side-kicks will lead the chorus on how indispensable Uncle is to everything that counts in the world.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 18:00

unkil ships and planes have been looking for some time too

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Theo_Fidel » 13 Mar 2014 18:23

Umm! BTW Rolls Royce is a UK company and data was logged in UK.
--------------------

WRT Geese thet only fly that high in their migration over the Himalayas. Once past the mountains they drop to 1000 feet or so above ground level. Can't imagine even a flock of Geese bringing down a 777. It should be able to fly on one engine right.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 18:26

AOA! you guys didn't read that WSJ report?

ramana: please note:


********according to two people familiar with the details****** ,
Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. 777’s engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.
At one briefing, according to this person, officials were told investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted “with the intention of using it later for another purpose.”

As of Wednesday it remained unclear whether the plane reached an alternate destination or if it ultimately crashed, potentially hundreds of miles from where an international search effort has been focused.


I assume WSJ will get into serious trouble if those "two people" weren't deemed to be pretty authoritative, though there is a serious muck-up (or deliberate) if those two leaked this to the media.

Also see strenuous Malaysian denial of that. Think about UB CT premise: the Malaysians, and all others who are really in the know, HAVE to play along with the notion that the plane has crashed somewhere far, far from where they really think it is.

So it flew for one hour? after takeoff before disappearance, then turned and flew for 4 hours ***TOTAL*** meaning they heard an engine spooldown or shut-off or some other kind of termination.

So why are these "investigators" not going totally public with this and redirecting the searches? There can be only one explanation: They don't want to spook those responsible.

OK, aces, what places are 4 hours along that path (or maybe they turned around to keep us from drawing that radius properly, which means somewhere INSIDE the 4-hour circle.

But the plane had fuel enough for 7.5 hours, not 4 hours. So they may have managed to shut off the engine data transmitters. BTW, how can those transmit from all around the world? Bounce off satellites, I guess, to an Internet receiver/node, what else can it be? What if there are no satellites to bounce the signal off? Like, over a region where there are no scheduled flights, or where the signal is jammed? OK, this IS near the equator (plenty of GEO satellites), but is that good enough? Who owns, say, the GEO cone between Aceh and SL, for instance?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 18:27

acars is communicated via ARINC (US based) or SITA (Swiss based), the aircraft was made in a number of euro countries, the acars box was made in america (i think), the engine choice is optional (american or british) and the config for acars is at the airlines discretion... so take your pick :)

RR have declined to comment from what i read earlier, but an american source (unnamed) has been saying that engine spool down data was transmitted 4-5 hours after the aircraft went missing. not corroborated by any others

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Theo_Fidel » 13 Mar 2014 18:29

UlanBatori wrote:Also see strenuous Malaysian denial of that. Think about UB CT premise: the Malaysians, and all others who are really in the know, HAVE to play along with the notion that the plane has crashed somewhere far, far from where they really think it is.


Well depending on the Malaysians kinda dooms the 'secret info' idea No! I can't even see this lot hiding the location of a bag of M&M's.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby CRamS » 13 Mar 2014 18:43

Lalmohan wrote:unkil ships and planes have been looking for some time too


Yes, but he was not the sole leader. Uncle always wants to be the man in charge, in control, and then if anybody helps him, he will be condescending in doling out praise (like TSP is a munna in the so called GWOT). But Uncle has a tough time accepting someone as a peer, especially turd world countries, since he has been the leader of the pack for a long time. In a way, this is how a typical human mind works. Nothing unique about Uncle in this regard, except that Uncle has the wherewithal to put his ego in action and thats why everyone is jealous of him :-).

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 18:45

Theo: I think the western/ other racist sources are very seriously underestimating the Malaysians.

HOW are the engine data transmitted? I mean, engine to satellite, I presume? And from satellite to ground, how? And do these satellites work over ALL parts of the duniya? This is so critical to this "4-hour" unless the actual last transmission was an engine spool-down. Sounds like it just sends out an "All Is Well" report from time to time (how else can they track all that, from thousands of engines, 24-7?) so next transmission after 4 hrs may have been, well, not seen by any relevant satellite?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby gnair » 13 Mar 2014 18:46

Sorry not connected to the MH story, but this big myth about the DF-21 being able to target something in the open ocean is now all 'out the window'....not even with 10 freakin PRC sats working double time. And we're looking at a static target here, not counting ocean currents.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby harbans » 13 Mar 2014 18:52

There is a high possibility of a Hijack piracy kind of incident. In the event of a crash or sinking the ELT (Emergency locator transmitter) too should have activated. That transmits directly to satellite based systems and gives location. Even that has not activated.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 18:53

UlanBatori wrote:Theo: I think the western/ other racist sources are very seriously underestimating the Malaysians.

HOW are the engine data transmitted? I mean, engine to satellite, I presume? And from satellite to ground, how? And do these satellites work over ALL parts of the duniya? This is so critical to this "4-hour" unless the actual last transmission was an engine spool-down. Sounds like it just sends out an "All Is Well" report from time to time (how else can they track all that, from thousands of engines, 24-7?) so next transmission after 4 hrs may have been, well, not seen by any relevant satellite?


fadec to acars to vhf radio/satellite link to ground station to arinc/sita to airline engineering to engine manufacturer, the latter part of the chain should be via email/data files

the funda being that if the fadec thinks that an engine is not feeling happy then next airport engineering team can grease the flanges and tweak the spigots, etc., etc.. data goes to engine manufacturer's database for future statistical analysis. anything more serious and then the airline will have a standby engine ready, etc., etc. the airline is interested in engine cycle time, hence spool down would be recorded. the idea being to keep the aircraft earning money for as long as possible by being airworthy for as much as possible

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby rsingh » 13 Mar 2014 19:04

Such a loss of face for Chinese Sats ( all 10). But Chinese sats can not be wrong. So I think they are sending some ship to plant the debris. BTW is there any way of verifying 10 Sat story?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2014 19:10

so here's a CT - the whole thing was staged by raw/cia to show up the Dong Feng and diverting attention by blaming the houri-seekers

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 19:12

OK, here goes.

The data goes to INMARSAT, then to GES - or directly from aircraft to RGS, then to the Internet.
So now one has to see where INMARSAT/ GES and RGS have coverage. The Global SITA network has its primary ADLT (whatever that is) is in Singapore, and the Backup is in Montreal.

Now look at the map called VHF Aircom Coverage WW (Worldwide?): It's mostly around coasts. Specifically look at area between Malaysia and Sri Lanka. No SITA coverage. Q.E.D. on that - no signal may have come up beyond 4 hours. UNLESS spool-down was specifically captured before they went out of coverage. If that's the case, then the search can be limited to a small area, hain?

How about their competition? More extensive/ complementary coverage? Or same thing, lower price?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 19:13

All u CT amateurs! How far is it to PyongYang? I bet much less than 7 hours from there.
Also, hey, if an ACRS/SITA report comes in, can they not trace back through the Internet to the precise server /node where it was put into the Internet? That isolates the ground station, hain? How tough is that? ( I wonder if they also get emails from Pakis claiming to be Nigerian Field Marshals offering $$B, like I do).

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Rajiv Lather » 13 Mar 2014 19:15

As I said before, someone go and check the pilot's home computer, the one with the 777's simulator. The answer is probably right there.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby habal » 13 Mar 2014 19:19

If AWACS or some thing else has taken control of the plane overriding the pilots and taken it away to some of the numerous USA bases in the IOR then what can Chinese satellites do about it. The plane could be parked in some military base hangar. Also the Malaysians are obfuscating explicitly what with the doctored, photoshopped images of the Iranians and the like. Both transponder stops transmitting and military radars can't track means that there are some kind of electronic jammer devices at work here which is overriding both together but skips the mobile signals so cell phones keep ringing. And the plane vanished from 29,500 feet, and nothing can make a plane vanish from a radar at that height. If they are saying the plane was much lower, then it was in all likelihood to save face.

Once the plane made the left/right/u turn the military radars kept tracking it, but they entered a zone where the angle of both incoming signals allowed for their simultaneous cancellation. That is where the plane finally “vanished”.

What we are seeing here is a new kind of 9/11.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby rohitvats » 13 Mar 2014 19:35

UlanBatori wrote:<SNIP> But the plane had fuel enough for 7.5 hours, not 4 hours. So they may have managed to shut off the engine data transmitters. BTW, how can those transmit from all around the world? Bounce off satellites, I guess, to an Internet receiver/node, what else can it be? What if there are no satellites to bounce the signal off? Like, over a region where there are no scheduled flights, or where the signal is jammed? OK, this IS near the equator (plenty of GEO satellites), but is that good enough? Who owns, say, the GEO cone between Aceh and SL, for instance?


This might answer your question:

ACARS transmits around 135MHz (VHF). The actual frequency depends on the region of the world where the plane is. At these types of frequency, once can expect reception to extend to perhaps 250nm.

ACARS signals are sent from the a/c and received by a ground station, for onward processing etc. AFAIK, the relevant ground station in that region is Hat Yai in southern Thailand.

Here is a copy of SITA's map of their VHF ACARS ground station coverage in Asia:


Image

Source: PPRuNE thread on the topic -
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-136.html

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Klaus » 13 Mar 2014 19:40

AFAIK the three nations having satellite monitoring of the area are USA, PRC & India. The former 2 have north of 10 satellites each while India is supposed to have 1-2. So there are issues of H&D between US & PRC.

While we are it, the flight could have headed over to Guam airbase under massa's instructions, or even crash-landed into the wilderness of Papua New Guinea or Irian Jaya. As if the parallels to Flight 714 were not enough, its eruption season in Indonesia & the vivid images of hypnotized crash survivors entering ancient cave complexes with ancient alien dieties being sculpted into the stone keeps echoing in the depths of imagination.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 19:43

Continuing the gyan from above (not the CT):
Satellite Aircom:
"satellite ACARS is the prime network used for airline and ATS applications over oceanic and remote regions."

SITA is working with INMARSAT and ground station operators to ensure long-term availability of the Classic INMARSAT Aero Service.

So there seems to be one satellite centered over the Indian Ocean, directly south of Pakistan (where else) in GEO (Is INMARSAT GEO?) That CLAIMS coverage overlapping that of the next one to the east, which is centered over the Pacific north of NZ. Now get this:

Outer edge of the Pacific satellite coverage runs right along the edge of Aceh.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby rohitvats » 13 Mar 2014 19:43

If one observes the foot-print of receiving stations and coverage, one arrives at a very striking conclusion -

If the plane turned west and was allowed to overfly the Malaysian heartland, then the aircraft would have gone out of range of receiver stations between A&N Island-Banda Aceh line and India/Sri-Lankan receiver coverage.

Further, would not the RR know which station picked up the engine data? That electronic foot-print should be available to find out the last emission location of the ACARS data...how come the same is not being mentioned?

And if above be the case - could it be possible that NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE A/C WENT AFTER IT WAS OUT OF PRIMARY RADAR AND ACARS COVERAGE?

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby ramana » 13 Mar 2014 19:45

Maybe the pilots came to know the cargo and did the honorable thing and deep sixed the plane in a desolate place.

Somewhere, someone knows what really happened and is having fun watching the swirl.
(My bet is the Pakis. Somehow all bad things are connected to them.)

Now Chinese sat pics are like Malay radar plots : fiction or hyper-active imagination leadng to wild goose chases.

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Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 19:47

NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE A/C WENT AFTER IT WAS OUT OF PRIMARY RADAR AND ACARS COVERAGE?

Exactly. The last (4 hours beyond radar) engine transmission was maybe caught on one of those coastal thingies. They know, but are not saying, where that occurred. Then it went out of the coverage area and stayed out of the coverage area. Unless the flyers knew exactly when the ACRS would transmit, they could not have timed any deception maneuvers to do this, so I assume this was accidental. With these facts, the search should be zeroed in by now, and Jim Bonda is probably suiting up in a submarine ready to launch his ambhibious Attack Craft.


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