Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3967
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby saip » 13 Mar 2014 04:54

Locator beacon on the black box will last 30 days or so. And can be heard even when submerged with proper equipment.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 04:55

nachiket wrote:
chetak wrote:
Suraj ji,
Locator sounds will come for limited period of time, ( until the battery dies out, 50-60 hours or thereabouts, after the activation, IIRC ) from Sonar Locator Beacon onlee. Barring the SLB, the rest of the alphabets you mentioned will not make even the tiniest of peeps underwater.

If you are talking about the locator beacons on the black boxes, they work for 30 days.


I am sure that you may be right. The military ones that I handled and used years ago all died in 50-60 hours max.

Clarification, added later.

These were also the DUKANE make and probably one of the very early models
Last edited by chetak on 13 Mar 2014 06:08, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 05:01

saip wrote:Locator beacon on the black box will last 30 days or so. And can be heard even when submerged with proper equipment.


They HAVE to be submerged to work. They will not activate out of water except on a test rig. If in range and on a submarine, you can comfortably hear them with bare ears only. However a submarine or helicopter or ship mounted Sonar will pick up faint sounds from a far greater distance.


Added later.
The newer DUKANEs seem to be of a much higher frequency and much longer life than the ones we used a decade or two earlier
Last edited by chetak on 13 Mar 2014 06:11, edited 1 time in total.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 05:14

So these 3 big objects detected by the Chinese satellite were 141 miles EAST and SOUTH of the point of FIRST disappearance. Sounds plausible, but

a) why would it go 141 miles to the right, and away from Malaysia?
b) the pieces are very large, but as someone said, dimensions may not have been right, or they are misstating and showing out-of-focus images to keep their secrets.
c) May be wing pieces.
d) May have stayed afloat for some time, and then tipped over/filled up and sunk.

BUT...
a) Why was the wreckage not detected by search planes? May have been because it was way EAST of where it was expected.
b) If these are pieces of the plane, that means the plane broke apart. OK, where are the floating pieces such as seat cushions, plastic panels etc?

I think there is a very high likelihood that these are maybe 3 of those loose containers that hit that boat that Suraj mentioned a few pages ago. Or the Al Ghazni Pak Navy Inflatable Aircraft Carrier Group undergoing super-secret sea trials. Or a field of junk from a typhoon or tsunami (like from Phillippines or Taiwan?) Some of those have been seen in the middle of the Pacific, and washed up on the Canadian coast.

I assume that by now, submarine-hunter planes have crisscrossed that area hammering the sea bottom with sonar. So it should be a matter of hours. With 200 feet depth, and since these things have long disappeared from the surface, they can't have drifted off very far, they must be at the bottom.
No reason to give up hope yet..

A metal detector is probably useless. There must be dozens of ships sunk down there, so that it would ring continuously.


Oh, then again.. that answers some questions. Problem of too many wrecks!

saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3967
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby saip » 13 Mar 2014 05:20

Under water beacon sends ultrasonic pulses and I don't think can be heard by human ear. (Over the ground a radio beacon would be activated?)

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 05:27

UlanBatori wrote:So these 3 big objects detected by the Chinese satellite were 141 miles EAST and SOUTH of the point of FIRST disappearance. Sounds plausible, but

a) why would it go 141 miles to the right, and away from Malaysia?
b) the pieces are very large, but as someone said, dimensions may not have been right, or they are misstating and showing out-of-focus images to keep their secrets.
c) May be wing pieces.
d) May have stayed afloat for some time, and then tipped over/filled up and sunk.

BUT...
a) Why was the wreckage not detected by search planes? May have been because it was way EAST of where it was expected.
b) If these are pieces of the plane, that means the plane broke apart. OK, where are the floating pieces such as seat cushions, plastic panels etc?

I think there is a very high likelihood that these are maybe 3 of those loose containers that hit that boat that Suraj mentioned a few pages ago. Or the Al Ghazni Pak Navy Inflatable Aircraft Carrier Group undergoing super-secret sea trials. Or a field of junk from a typhoon or tsunami (like from Phillippines or Taiwan?) Some of those have been seen in the middle of the Pacific, and washed up on the Canadian coast.

I assume that by now, submarine-hunter planes have crisscrossed that area hammering the sea bottom with sonar. So it should be a matter of hours. With 200 feet depth, and since these things have long disappeared from the surface, they can't have drifted off very far, they must be at the bottom.
No reason to give up hope yet..


Already sunk to the bottom, may be difficult to locate with normal sonar. You would possibly need a sidescan sonar to get a clear picture. The ground returns would mask the normal returns to a large extent.


For the ELTs not to have activated ( requires +11G impact onlee), the only real possibility is a night landing on water. That would explain the large pieces as identified by the chinese satellites and also the lesser impact thus not activating the ELTs. In which case the Sonar locator beacons would have activated and perhaps they have but only in some location that the search and rescue teams have not visited.

Such landings are usually not successful unless the sea is very calm and the pilot really gets it right to a T.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 05:57

But chetak, there is something wrong with the night landing hypothesis. If the plane was under control enough to try a soft landing, and it traveled 141 miles to the east and south after the disappearance from radar, there was definitely enough time for cabin crew to tell passengers to get ready for a water landing. Life jackets will have been retrieved from under seats, and worn. If the plane broke up on landing, where are those floating pieces? One would expect hundreds of pieces, no way to miss those. The satellite on the next pass will have detected something (and I think the Chinese have much better resolution than what those photos showed), so they would at least have magically hinted to someone to fly over that place and "accidentally" discover the debris. Should have happened by now, why hasn't it? It takes what, half an hour, for a turboprop to fly over there from the Vietnam coast or Malaysian coast?

The Chinese had apparently not even showed those pictures to the Malaysians, until it came on their website. I think they already know that these are not airplane parts, hence the lack of official interest beyond that display on a website.

Going very far out on a limb here (Predictor-Corrector process, I will simply "correct" my hypothesis 8) if needed) but I still say that this is disinformation. The Chinese posted these pictures TODAY, and they are on some website, strictly for news media consumption. Would they post that on a website until hours AFTER the SAR teams have been informed?

Has the entire search shifted to that area 12/16 hours ago? If not, why not?

The disinformation hypothesis fits all too well with the "why" of disinformation: to buy time while hunting for the terrorists/kidnappers, and point in the opposite direction from where the interest is.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 13 Mar 2014 06:04, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 05:59

saip wrote:Under water beacon sends ultrasonic pulses and I don't think can be heard by human ear. (Over the ground a radio beacon would be activated?)


You may be right but there is no over the ground radio beacon, however.

This may be representative of the type of SLB on the Boeing 777.

DUKANE make, Dukane Seacom product line, Radiant Power is a major supplier of FAA qualified high-impact underwater acoustic beacons to the commercial airline industry. Once active, the Dukane DK120 emits a pulse once a second that can be detected by sonar equipment up to two nautical miles away. The beacon works at a depth of 20,000 feet - far deeper than the waters where officials believe the Malaysian plane went down.

SPECIFICATIONS
OPERATING FREQUENCY: 37.5 kHz ± 1 kHz OPERATING DEPTH: Surface to 20,000'
PULSE LENGTH: Not < 9 milliseconds PULSE REPETITION RATE: Not < 0.9 pulse per second
USEFUL LIFE: 6 years OPERATING LIFE: 30 Days (min)
ACOUSTIC OUTPUT INITIAL: 1060 dynes/cm2rms pressure @ 1 meter ACOUSTIC OUTPUT AFTER 30 DAYS: 700 dynes/cm2rms pressure @ 1 meter
OPERATING TEMPERATURE: 28°F to 100°F ACTUATION: Fresh or salt water, surface to 20,000'
RADIATION PATTERN: Rated output over 80% of sphere SIZE: 1.3" D x 4" L
WEIGHT: Less than 7 oz (including battery) POWER SOURCE: Lithium Battery, Field Replaceable
FAA AUTHORIZED: TSO-C121

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Shreeman » 13 Mar 2014 06:04

UlanBatori wrote:But chetak, there is something wrong with the night landing hypothesis. If the plane was under control enough to try a soft landing, and it traveled 141 miles to the east and south after the disappearance from radar, there was definitely enough time for cabin crew to tell passengers to get ready for a water landing. Life jackets will have been retrieved from under seats, and worn. If the plane broke up on landing, where are those floating pieces? One would expect hundreds of pieces, no way to miss those. The satellite on the next pass will have detected something (and I think the Chinese have much better resolution than what those photos showed), so they would at least have magically hinted to someone to fly over that place and "accidentally" discover the debris. Should have happened by now, why hasn't it? It takes what, half an hour, for a turboprop to fly over there from the Vietnam coast or Malaysian coast?

The Chinese had apparently not even showed those pictures to the Malaysians, until it came on their website. I think they already know that these are not airplane parts, hence the lack of official interest beyond that display on a website.


Everyone is trying to hide their military capabilities. The chinese are hinting "look around here" without saying what they know. Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia have already more or less given up. You have your Brunei and Ibdia glying planes around for fun, pretty much without coordination.

Its still 404 onlee, but if a chinese ship were to magically find the wreck tomorrow I wouldnt be surprised.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 06:04

UlanBatori wrote:But chetak, there is something wrong with the night landing hypothesis. If the plane was under control enough to try a soft landing, and it traveled 141 miles to the east and south after the disappearance from radar, there was definitely enough time for cabin crew to tell passengers to get ready for a water landing. Life jackets will have been retrieved from under seats, and worn. If the plane broke up on landing, where are those floating pieces? One would expect hundreds of pieces, no way to miss those. The satellite on the next pass will have detected something (and I think the Chinese have much better resolution than what those photos showed), so they would at least have magically hinted to someone to fly over that place and "accidentally" discover the debris. Should have happened by now, why hasn't it? It takes what, half an hour, for a turboprop to fly over there from the Vietnam coast or Malaysian coast?

The Chinese had apparently not even showed those pictures to the Malaysians, until it came on their website. I think they already know that these are not airplane parts, hence the lack of official interest beyond that display on a website.


No hypothesis UB ji. Just wild speculation. Trying to aimlessly fit possible facts to the probable CTs and failing like everyone else.

The chinese will never disclose or even show the true resolution of their satellites so that is another CT

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 06:11

Let's see.. But you see, if the plane only broke up semi-gently on water "landing", there would be survivors, almost surely. Every reason for EXTREME urgency!!!! Even Chinese govt. would not hide such things today, the families of the passengers are probably quite wealthy and powerful people. Besides, what is there to hide? All they have to do is send SAR teams there immediately, and they would have done that long before the pictures actually appeared on any website. CNN has been reporting this since around 9pm GMT - I mean reporting seeing the photos posted on the website. That is around 5:30AM Singapore time, sunrise well underway. It is now over 4 or 5 hours since then, all full daylight. Floating debris should have been seen looong before now, unless there is a full-scale storm underway.

Sorry, false alarm.

OTOH, the vertical tail of the Air France plane was found just like that, floating in the Atlantic. That is as big as a 2-storey building or a huge billboard, hey? My thinking was that the pieces were wing or tail sheet metal, ripped apart and floating. Would have fluttered to the ocean surface like leaves after a mid-air explosion.

But then again there would be a confetti of debris all round. Enough to provide some sort of return to the imaging systems?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 06:21

UlanBatori wrote:Let's see.. But you see, if the plane only broke up semi-gently on water "landing", there would be survivors, almost surely. Every reason for EXTREME urgency!!!! Even Chinese govt. would not hide such things today, the families of the passengers are probably quite wealthy and powerful people. Besides, what is there to hide? All they have to do is send SAR teams there immediately, and they would have done that long before the pictures actually appeared on any website. CNN has been reporting this since around 9pm GMT - I mean reporting seeing the photos posted on the website. That is around 5:30AM Singapore time, sunrise well underway. It is now over 4 or 5 hours since then, all full daylight. Floating debris should have been seen looong before now, unless there is a full-scale storm underway.

Sorry, false alarm.



I don't think that anyone knew the details of the crash early in the unfolding drama. By the time people reacted and started to pull up satellite imaging, the evidence would have been long gone barring floating cushions cabin debris and suchlike.

Survivors, if any are entirely in the realm of pure speculation. A water landing is always dicey. I remember seeing a video of a 737 cartwheeling as it tried to touch down in the water and yet there is that crazy picture of the Airbus that gently landed on the Hudson.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 06:23

This is misinformation at its best:

NEW: Malaysian official: Planes head to site shown on satellite images

Like: Oh! I read on CNN that the Chinese have posted a few pics on a website: We're heading out there now... say about 5 hours after we read it on CNN. While any survivors may be at their last gasp, babies floating on lifevests with sharks circling and seconds count... Oh, yessss!!!!! We want to be lynched tomorrow!

Chetak, Babies survive extreme crashes. Shorter spines, I guess, and overall, less inertia and momentum.

Watch "Anai valartha Vanampadi" (The Nightingale Raised By Elephants). 1960s movie starring Sivaji Ganesan. Mother throws baby wrapped in towel out the window of a crashing Indian Airlines DC-3, baby, raised by elephants, grows up to be a very well-padded houri, unimpeded by concerns about dieting given the girth of those around her. 8)

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 06:30

UlanBatori wrote:This is misinformation at its best:

NEW: Malaysian official: Planes head to site shown on satellite images

Like: Oh! I read on CNN that the Chinese have posted a few pics on a website: We're heading out there now... say about 5 hours after we read it on CNN. While any survivors may be at their last gasp, babies floating on lifevests with sharks circling and seconds count... Oh, yessss!!!!! We want to be lynched tomorrow!

Chetak, Babies survive extreme crashes. Shorter spines, I guess, and overall, less inertia and momentum.


Yes, Sirjee. Miracles do happen but to be realistic, finding survivors now is a near impossibility. Everyone certainly wishes otherwise.

What was the guy doing out there and why did he follow such a crazy flight path??.

He could have come low over any town city and maybe used cell phones. Did these Malaysian 777-200 birds carry satellite phone for passenger use, does anyone know??

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23996
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2014 06:33

UlanBatori wrote:This is misinformation at its best:

NEW: Malaysian official: Planes head to site shown on satellite images

Like: Oh! I read on CNN that the Chinese have posted a few pics on a website: We're heading out there now... say about 5 hours after we read it on CNN. While any survivors may be at their last gasp, babies floating on lifevests with sharks circling and seconds count... Oh, yessss!!!!! We want to be lynched tomorrow!

Chetak, Babies survive extreme crashes. Shorter spines, I guess, and overall, less inertia and momentum.

Watch "Anai valartha Vanampadi" (The Nightingale Raised By Elephants). 1960s movie starring Sivaji Ganesan. Mother throws baby wrapped in towel out the window of a crashing Indian Airlines DC-3, baby, raised by elephants, grows up to be a very well-padded houri, unimpeded by concerns about dieting given the girth of those around her. 8)


Must have been some towel, na??

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 06:58

Funny to watch the CNN headline change, the talking heads keep on and on, and ALL they have is the same lousy photo with a read arrow pointing at something fuzzy, for the past 6 hours. The Chinese must be laughing their heads off.

More useful to read Al Jazeera

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4009
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby partha » 13 Mar 2014 07:05

Why did the Chinese take 4 days to release the satellite photos? I guess they were pondering whether to release the photos which could reveal their satellite imaging capabilities. The photos are not of great quality.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 07:07

Sher khan said yesterday their dew sats did not pick up sign of mid air explosion.

saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3967
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby saip » 13 Mar 2014 07:20

partha wrote:Why did the Chinese take 4 days to release the satellite photos? I guess they were pondering whether to release the photos which could reveal their satellite imaging capabilities. The photos are not of great quality.

They were obviously dumbed down.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 07:21

Close to 7 hours since CNN first reported Chinese website photos. 141 miles + a bit: less than 1 hour flight time to search area. Some 39 planes involved in the search. I guess we'll see if they find anything by sundown in another 5 hours or so.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 07:39

The floating pieces could be wing and tailplanes having hollow sections and empty fuel tanks. Like a ulta boat, trapped air might keep it floating or slightly submerged.

sohamn
BRFite
Posts: 319
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 12:56
Location: the Queen of the Angels of Porziuncola
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby sohamn » 13 Mar 2014 07:45

Why is Chakra sunbathing now? The crew should be challenged to find out the debris. Same goes for Shivalik class and P8i. Test new platform to find operational effectiveness.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Shreeman » 13 Mar 2014 07:46

Singha wrote:The floating pieces could be wing and tailplanes having hollow sections and empty fuel tanks. Like a ulta boat, trapped air might keep it floating or slightly submerged.


Wings are unlikely to stay whole or retain bouyancy. Empennage is another issue, but would not be this size. Thia may not be one whole piece either. There ia not enough information in this picture. Could be something, or not. Two or more flights are on the way.

I just hope they are plucking out this trash when they get to it, and not just burning fuel on pleasure cruise.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 07:54

I bet when I come back here in, say, 8.5 hrs, CNN talking head will still be pointing to the fuzzy foto with the red arrow. Unless they find the place in SL or something more terrible has occurred.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 13 Mar 2014 08:02, edited 1 time in total.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby vina » 13 Mar 2014 07:56

Chinese Official - No proof to link debris to jet

In Inglees, what it means is that the Chinese were forced to put out such propah gunda, to assuage the millions of Chinese abduls asking "Ten Satterites ?" WTF are they doing la ?" A sorry lame ass excuse of hoping to show that they are trying, or to put it crudely, we too have a schlong that is long.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24221
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby SSridhar » 13 Mar 2014 07:59

NightWatch for the night of 11 Mar 2014

Special Comment: Malaysia is a modern wealthy country that, with British and Commonwealth help, defeated a communist insurgency more than 40 years ago. It was a long hard fight. Malaysia's state religion is Islam. Its leaders pride themselves that no Islamist terrorist attacks have taken place in Malaysia. Malay elites are strongly pro-UK and mildly hostile to Americans. Educated Malays have become increasingly and openly more devout since 1979. Malaysia is tolerant of Islamists. It is a place where they can go to ground, rest, plan and prepare attacks, provided they cause no trouble in Malaysia. A suburb of Kuala Lumpur, the capital, was a production site for Pakistan's A.Q. Khan's nuclear weapons proliferation syndicate. This background, based on decades of watching Malaysia, helps explain Malaysia's pathetic and almost criminal lack of cooperation with international efforts to find the missing Boeing 777-200 passenger aircraft. The NightWatch hypothesis is that the Malaysian authorities suspected terrorism, but did not want to share that suspicion to avoid losing face. Almost three dozen ships from 9 or 10 countries wasted their time searching in the wrong place and senior Malays knew it. For at least three days the Royal Malaysian Air Force and the government failed to come forward with radar tracking information in their possession that the aircraft was not lost over the South China Sea, but over the northern approach to the Malacca Strait - off the west coast of Malaysia. They have not explained their behavior. It is premature to conclude the missing aircraft was involved in an act of air terrorism. If the aircraft was downed by terrorist action, it would be an embarrassing first for Malaysia. The failure to provide timely and accurate information for the international search is inexcusable. Malaysia has lost face.


From the beginning, the Malaysian officials were reticent but increasingly, the behaviour of Malaysia has become untenable. They give every indication of not wanting the truth to come out.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Mar 2014 08:05

Vina: ur link says the site is "37 kilometers (23 miles) southeast of Ho Chi Minh City," and that both smoke and shards of metal were detected. That is very different from what they showed on See Enn Enn, hain? That site was 141 miles east and south of the Last Radar Contact position, so definitely not close to Vietnam coast.

This is PLA Disinfolmation Ministly at its finest.

Also, my take is that Malaysian officials are no dummies. There has to be a good reason for their waffling etc. IOW, CT requiring constantly-changing cover.

anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1869
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby anmol » 13 Mar 2014 08:11

Facebook account of the Iranian on the flight:

https://www.facebook.com/pouria.nourmoh ... eam_ref=10

Last post:
Image
Pouria NM feeling bad

به علت پاره ای از مشکلات دی اکتیو میکنم اکانتو...
دوسان جدی بدی ا ما دیدین حلال کنین
شاید دیگه.......
February 24 at 3:14am ·



The last status update Pouria Nourmohammadi posted on his Facebook page indicated he was “feeling excited.” The 19-year-old Iranian had good reason to be: he was embarking on the first leg of a flight that would ultimately take him to Germany where his mother was waiting to help him begin a new life.

But his journey was tragically interrupted. His flight, Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370, disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing early Saturday morning with all 239 people on board. Nearly four days later, no trace has been found of the Boeing 777 in spite of a massive search operation conducted by at least nine countries.

Nourmohammadi had earlier hinted he would be going on a long, life-changing trip. “Because of some problems I will deactivate my account. Friends, seriously, if I’ve done any of you a bad turn, forgive me because maybe…” he posted on his Facebook page on Feb. 24.

Kannan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 23:26
Location: East Lansing, MI
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Kannan » 13 Mar 2014 09:19

putnanja wrote:There is something seriously wrong in the way the Malaysian authorities are responding. They are not explaining why they are searching all over the place. Couple of their officials said "we can share that information with you at this time" for some of the questions asked. Something is seriously wrong


Likely covering up their poor radar surveillance. If the transponder signal drops, the diligence of the radar operator to follow the primary target. If ATC ignores the secondary signal disappearing because it's been handed off to Ho Chi Min, and the military assumes every primary target is probably accounted for, everyone is complacent, a plane slips through the cracks, and you end up being the world's laughingstock.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 09:27

imo xinhua has very clear and concise english language website.
even about india, their reports read better than our MSM.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby shiv » 13 Mar 2014 09:28

Searches over vast areas of ocean are costly in fuel and airframe life. Other than coordinating with other search agencies and doing its bit, India need not go overboard in this wild goose chase. Why should India search with no holds barred in the Andaman sea while people are still searching in the South China sea?

If a P8 searches in a grid pattern 10 km wide and 100 km long it's stated range can cover about 10,000 to 20,000 sq km. depending on how far away the search as to start

But a circle with a radius of 1000 km from where the aircraft took off has an area of 3 million sq km. If 20% of that falls in the Andaman sea, it would require about 50 or more 5-6 hour sorties. If two P8s were used during the day just for this it could still take a month of continuous operation just for this search. It would be silly to divert every IN asset just for this, with no clue about where to look. That plane could be anywhere judging from the accuracy of sightings and "last seen" reports. The world was, and remains a big place.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby shiv » 13 Mar 2014 09:33

Singha wrote:imo xinhua has very clear and concise english language website.
even about india, their reports read better than our MSM.

"Good English" is always to please English masters. It's high time we simply used it the way we want and let others try and understand.

nawabs
BRFite
Posts: 1637
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby nawabs » 13 Mar 2014 09:39

BREAKING WSJ EXCLUSIVE: Engine monitoring data shows missing 777 was airborne for four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location-sources (From Rolls Royce records)

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 3903086282

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby vasu raya » 13 Mar 2014 09:42

Going by the hijack scenario due to the flight path taken, there had to be targets, either land or sea

earlier there was news of war games in the area, is there an aircraft carrier in the vicinity? possibly it was an unsuccessful strike by sleeper cells and the Malays in cahoot with US have diverted people long enough specifically the Chinese

Kannan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 23:26
Location: East Lansing, MI
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Kannan » 13 Mar 2014 09:45

vasu raya wrote:Going by the hijack scenario due to the flight path taken, there had to be targets, either land or sea

earlier there was news of war games in the area, is there an aircraft carrier in the vicinity? possibly it was an unsuccessful strike by sleeper cells and the Malays in cahoot with US have diverted people long enough specifically the Chinese


Too much Tom Clancy? :rotfl:

Nobody knows the flight path.

nawabs
BRFite
Posts: 1637
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby nawabs » 13 Mar 2014 09:50

Malaysians said once confirmed by NTSB/FAA that the unidentified plot on primary radar is MH370, the radar track will be made public on Thursday. But now I will doubt anything they have to add unless confirmed by independent source. These guys were very sketchy about ACARS from the beginning.
Last edited by nawabs on 13 Mar 2014 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Shreeman » 13 Mar 2014 09:54

nawabs wrote:Malaysians said once confirmed by NTSB/FAA that the unidentified plot on primary radar is MH370, the radar track will be made public on Thursday.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/missin ... atest_news

ah -- already posted. and back to square one. story is pushing mangolian theories too. i still stick to decompression over hijack. totally unfair if mangolian choices were made based on this, though.
Last edited by Shreeman on 13 Mar 2014 11:00, edited 1 time in total.

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby negi » 13 Mar 2014 10:01

^ From above

U.S. counterterrorism officials are pursuing the possibility that a pilot or someone else on board the plane may have diverted it toward an undisclosed location after intentionally turning off the jetliner’s transponders to avoid radar detection, according to one person tracking the probe.

Why would one make these manual on a jetliner to begin with ? Avoiding radar detection for what (I mean for normal ops unless hijacked) ?

nawabs
BRFite
Posts: 1637
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby nawabs » 13 Mar 2014 10:07

1. Ground radar clutter at busy airports
2. Recycling to resolve problems
3. Flight crew needs to be able to disconnect any part of the electrical system that may be misbehaving. Electrical arcing can cause a fire.

There are many good SAFETY reasons for being able to disable faulty parts of the electrical system. Aircraft are not designed with the idea that the flight crew will try to abuse safety systems to down them. Anyone who has access to the circuit breakers can also just crash the plane anyway.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Malaysian Arilines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Postby Singha » 13 Mar 2014 10:09

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:imo xinhua has very clear and concise english language website.
even about india, their reports read better than our MSM.

"Good English" is always to please English masters. It's high time we simply used it the way we want and let others try and understand.


No saar, I didnt mean grammar though one could touch upon that. I simply meant being relevant and staying on topic in simple language, without low quality reporting of the issue. also its the indic MSM who use such terms like "whopping" and "honcho" which has no root in our culture and even their originators dont use them anymore...

MSM also always has some psyops angle to it.

try it yourself and read xinhua for a few days, you will be pleasantly surprised.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashokk, Lisa, shobhits and 80 guests