Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 19 Jul 2014

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Sep 2014 07:11

^^^ One can dream of a impregnable moat dividing Pakistan in two. It is legitimate to dream

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2014 07:29

The only thing that is holding Pakistan is a sliver of radical Islam between the Indian border and the Indus. I think the most intelligent of the radical Islamists in Pakistan realized that if Islam gets watered down, Pakistan is finished.

Islam will get watered down only when it has killed enough Muslims to prove to the ummah that they need a change of course.

What we need is to preserve the sanctity of the border and let Islam slug it out.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Sep 2014 07:39

^^^ shiv, and during this period of infinite patience, we dream

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Sep 2014 07:43

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ shiv, and during this period of infinite patience, we dream

The foremost dream should be of baki population cap, rollback and eliminate (CRE) otherwise called the "Katlu dream" using oomah love of malsi on malsi.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2014 08:00

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ shiv, and during this period of infinite patience, we dream

Personally - I see no other option..

I think they would welcome war - it allows them to go down fighting and survivors will have a new legend and new martyrs. The way strife and deprivation is actively preserved and blamed on kafirs is a classic Islam technique. In many ways we have been checkmated because they are willing to go down if they can pull us down with them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Sep 2014 08:06

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:^^^ shiv, and during this period of infinite patience, we dream
Personally - I see no other option.. I think they would welcome war - it allows them to go down fighting and survivors will have a new legend and new martyrs. The way strife and deprivation is actively preserved and blamed on kafirs is a classic Islam technique. In many ways we have been checkmated because they are willing to go down if they can pull us down with them.

It depend on what is considered "them". They must be told again and again openly that its will be Ideological them evaporating in smoke.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Sep 2014 08:13

shiv wrote:The only thing that is holding Pakistan is a sliver of radical Islam between the Indian border and the Indus. I think the most intelligent of the radical Islamists in Pakistan realized that if Islam gets watered down, Pakistan is finished.

Islam will get watered down only when it has killed enough Muslims to prove to the ummah that they need a change of course.

What we need is to preserve the sanctity of the border and let Islam slug it out.

Islam will get watered down once those gulf royals run out of oil.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2014 08:44

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ One can dream of a impregnable moat dividing Pakistan in two. It is legitimate to dream

If you read Fair's book - she says that the Indus still serves as a moat dividing Pakistan in two. Mohterma points out that the British had the Indus as a geographic border, but followed two policies depending on expedience. In their "forward policy" the Brits exerted control over NWFP militarily and fought in Afghanistan. In the "near border" policy, the Brits took the Indus as border and let go of action further west.

Pakistan, according to Fair, has continued exactly those policies. The Taliban in Afghanistan was Pakistan's "forward" policy. More recently, when the Taliban came into Swat, Pakis had adopted a near border policy.

Now, with operation Arse-e-zub they are back to the "forward" border policy.

Even Pakistanis consider the strip of land to the east of the Indus as the "real Pakistan". the moat that you speak of already exists in the mind of the Pakistani army, the Pakjabis and the establishments. That is in fact one of the reasons why Pakistan is not a coherent, stable state. I would recommend Mohterma Fair's book.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Sep 2014 09:10

To celebrate one month of idiocy D'immy vows to put up ‘grand show’

Speaking to participants of his Azadi sit-in at D-Chowk, he vowed to bring more evidence against the government to make his party’s case even stronger. “On Saturday, we will unveil things which should have been brought in the parliament,” he said.

Brushing aside allegations of paying electricity bills and not following his own civil disobedience movement, Khan termed it false propaganda.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 11 Sep 2014 10:23

[/quote]
From what I can gather, what both of you have implied is the exact opposite of the general view that a stable Pakistan is not in India's interests. You are saying that an unstable Pakistan is of no use to India. I disagree.

Pakistan has at last 3 power centers and if none of them is totally in charge it benefits India. To some extent the US attitude towards the communists is useful. Every day's delay in the latter achieving some goal was a day extra for the US to get ahead. The Paki "parliament" has not been working for a month now and the instability has prompted Xi to postpone his visit. Xi was supposed to come with a 22 billion package for Pakistan with the caveat that Pakistan hand over all projects to China, ask no questions and NOT put any of them up for competitive bidding. I think what people miss out here is the fact that in Pakistan "competitive bidding" is to see if there are western companies that will pay bigger bribes. For that, the Pakistani powers that be - the politicians and the businessmen have to strike deals about what they will get from China if they accede to China's demand and then they have to openly declare in parliament that China is being given the contracts. That has not happened - so it is likely to be delayed. Every delay benefits us - and allows us to grow just that much more.[/quote]

An excellent summing up. I would also suggest that the more competing power centers in Pakistan there are, the better it is
for us. India's policy should be to ensure that each competing side stays strong enough to ensure permanent instability, with
no faction emerging clear winner.

Until a few years back, it was either just Army, or Army vs. elected Govt in Pakistan. Now we have the following potential
groups competing for power:
1. Army - beards faction
2. Army - whiskey drinkers.
3. Govt of NS.
4. Mainstream Islamists (in Punjab)
5. Good/Bad Taliban in FATA/WANA
6. Dimwit Khan
7. Regional parties like PPP.

For India, working with NS to drive a wedge between 1 & 2 and between 4 & 5 would probably be in our best interest.

vina · Post by **vina** » 11 Sep 2014 13:31

Shiv wrote:I think the most intelligent of the radical Islamists

Isn't that an oxymoron ? If the former, you can't be the latter , unless you are an Oxy Moron!

Sorry, poor pun though.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2014 14:21

Indus river, India border fence, Islamabad, Lahore, Delhi

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 11 Sep 2014 14:23

vina wrote:
Shiv wrote:I think the most intelligent of the radical Islamists
Isn't that an oxymoron ? If the former, you can't be the latter , unless you are an ~~Oxy~~ Malsi Moron!

Needed minor correction.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Sep 2014 15:34

Belated pillow fight or Why The Chinese must be disappointed with Pakistan.

they (D'Immy and TuQ) expected the Chinese president to visit a capital besieged by them, a capital in which even the country’s president cannot guarantee his own safety

Nothing could be more symptomatic of the condescension with which Pakistan treats its relationship with the People’s Republic of China than its behaviour over the visit of the Chinese president, postponed only days before it was due to take place.

While both governments, like some Hollywood actor-couple asserting the durability of their marriage, take pains to repeat that their diplomatic conjugality is “as high as the Himalayas, as deep as the ocean, and as sweet as honey”, nevertheless, despite Pakistan’s cockiness and China’s Confucian sagacity, their relationship is like the painstakingly carved jade bowls from which the emperors once sipped their tea — adamantine, yet fragile.

Step out of its Red Zone, and take a look at Pakistan from a Chinese perspective.

China needs Pakistan no more than a person suffering from schizophrenia needs two migraines.

Pakistan can never match what India has begun to offer China

Then why should China continue to carry the weight of this basket-case of a country?

The Chinese must be sorely disappointed at the turn of events in Pakistan that should have resulted in the postponement of the visit of their president.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 11 Sep 2014 17:21

anupmisra wrote:Belated pillow fight or Why The Chinese must be disappointed with Pakistan.

China does not require a warm water port that can provide it access to the oil-rich Gulf.

Gwadi-wadi-ar goes for a Six. Ub Tera Kya Hoga Crapistan!
Cheers

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Sep 2014 18:42

Breaking newj: Mushyrat is found guilty of high treason by FIA (source headlines today)

I love how Badmash is fingering NaPak army two days in a row!
EDIT; ~~Though am not seeing this reported anywhere else(twitter or web)~~

http://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asi ... um=twitter

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2014 19:57

shiv wrote:The only thing that is holding Pakistan is a sliver of radical Islam between the Indian border and the Indus. I think the most intelligent of the radical Islamists in Pakistan realized that if Islam gets watered down, Pakistan is finished.

Islam will get watered down only when it has killed enough Muslims to prove to the ummah that they need a change of course.

What we need is to preserve the sanctity of the border and let Islam slug it out.

Hence the BRF prescription that "Pakistan Needs More Islam."

And that "India wins by staying together"

Anglos-Saxon West wants to break-up India to preserve Pakistan.
Recall the Million mutinies genre of literature of the 60s.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 11 Sep 2014 20:32

saravana, it is nothing new.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/05/pakistan ... afs-guilt/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2014 20:42

I bow to Shiv & SSridhar, the foremost Pakistan Black Belts (PBB) on the forum, for their gnan.
Anujan for his inroads into Pak elite mind.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 11 Sep 2014 21:10

Nandu wrote:saravana, it is nothing new.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/05/pakistan ... afs-guilt/

Thanks. This must be the new "project approved" news.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 11 Sep 2014 21:37

Shiv, what Motorma Fair is saying is true, then it is a rehash of Caroe's strategy of offshore balancing. Indus is the border, trans-indus Pakistan is the frontier but there is no hinterland.

When Pakistanis keep saying that Jinnah wanted India-Pakistan to live like US-Canada, what they mean is they need Indian depth to hold off the threat from across the Indus. This is what Haqqani and Ayesha Jalal etc are harping on.

Pakistanis are against a wall cuz they have no buffer and no hinterland. Hence the territory east of Indus is the battleground. The Ashrafi Gen Mirza Beg wanted afghanistan as strategic depth against India, but In reality they need eastern Punjab as depth against the threat from across the Indus. If India had agreed to Muslim league's demand for entire Punjab to go to Pakistan in 1947, they would have this depth and this is what they want from Aman ki asha. They knew this in 1947 when Jinnah bitterly said he got a moth eaten pakistan and they are still after it now.

We discussed this in the great game thread many years ago

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Sep 2014 22:59

Pakiland is quite funny. There are so many power centers and many many cloak and dagger affairs that nobody knows what's legit. Apparently there is a scam in Krachi where you claim to be working for the talibs and ask for protection money. There is no way to verify if you actually are and people simply pay up.

The latest coup is like that. Some random Abdul from londonistan apparently declared himself to be chaddi buddies with the khakis and convinced TuQ to protest it seems. Further it seems that this fellow might be like the "Windows 9 guiness record" paki Abdul (remember him) and just full of hot air.

Similarly apparently a few soon to be retiring crore kammandus along with pasha and ashfuk stirred up IK. For a long time apparently badmash didn't know if it was a legit coup attempt and ergo held off on the use of force or slapping a few restrictions against occupying isloo

After he had counted his own party members, consulted with PPP to make sure they aren't supporting the coup, after PPP counted their party members and after feelers to judges revealed that they aren't going to legitimize anything and finally after checking with bad Sharif nawaz now seems to be confident that it wasn't a massive coordinated effort

I think the Abduls in Peearef can pull off a coup in Pakistan if half of them pretend to be talking for the army and the other half pretend to talk for the judiciary.

This is what you get if you run an entire country on the basis of plausible deniability.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Sep 2014 23:23

Anujan wrote:Pakiland is quite funny. There are so many power centers and many many cloak and dagger affairs that nobody knows what's legit. Apparently there is a scam in Krachi where you claim to be working for the talibs and ask for protection money. There is no way to verify if you actually are and people simply pay up.

Bunch Of Bakras butting head with each other to claim the right of copulation over PakibakriPulation. In the process , many get worn,walk &weeded out. Only the Strong Bakras with Bigger Guns get to lord over for limited time till new one throw the challenge.
Pakistan is not a Country nor a Kabila but Herd going in Circles.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 11 Sep 2014 23:30

Anujan wrote:Pakiland is quite funny. There are so many power centers and many many cloak and dagger affairs that nobody knows what's legit. Apparently there is a scam in Krachi where you claim to be working for the talibs and ask for protection money. There is no way to verify if you actually are and people simply pay up.

Heard from an Eastern European friend:
In Romania there are highways running through isolated areas, there will be dacoits every 20 km. People started getting looted multiple times in a single trip and this was bringing a lot of attention to the looters. So the looters started giving receipts with signs saying that "This person has been looted by so and so, they have nothing on them, please let them go". Once a looter sees that, he leaves them alone

Maybe the Talibs would evolve a system to give receipts after getting their jaziya from Murtads, Dhimmis and Kaffirs. That way the "false" jaziya collector knows that there is nothing more to extract.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Sep 2014 23:51

Else there should be a national identification effort whereby everyone is given an id card as to which terrorist organization they belong to.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Sep 2014 23:56

Are you saying that we at PeeAarEff can induce a coup in Bakistan from our homes just by making calls to right people using right accent and vocabulary and dropping important enough names but still have plausible deniability.
?? Non-State actors replace state actors as Coup planners..That would be the day !!!

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Sep 2014 23:58

Anujan wrote:Else there should be a national identification effort whereby everyone is given an id card as to which terrorist organization they belong to.

Then every Pakistani will get one Id Card. Then who is going to pay up.. hain ji..??
I think everyone should pay to everyone else creating a sort of cross holdings in each others venture resulting in less competition, constant flow of Islamic money and positive sentiments and everyone goes home feeling like a winner.

Raman · Post by **Raman** » 12 Sep 2014 00:16

No jiziya collector will issue receipt; if he does some greener jiziya collecter will come to collect jiziya from him or even bull-cattle him.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Sep 2014 00:29

Seven bridges are mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:B ... ndus_River

Attock, Ayub, Kohala, Kotri, Lansdowne/Rohri, Raikot, Youyi.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Sep 2014 01:12

Apparently commissioned Navy officers were arrested in connection with the Karachi attack. What happened to the "Highly professional, apolitical, secular and disciplined" TFTA armed forces Hain ji ?

Also before Indian navy celebrates 4th December for attacking Karachi dockyard, they should realize Pakistan navy itself attacked Karachi dockyard. Pakistan navy is the biggest attacker of Karachi dockyard.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Sep 2014 01:16

They are all becoming extremists because India refuses to resolve the core issue by handing over Kashmir to Pakistan.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Sep 2014 01:19

Also Pakistan Navy has 40000 personnel. Only 200 Navy personnel have been investigated per Geo aur jeene do TV.

Less than 10% of the navy is extremist. Rest are secular and democratic.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 12 Sep 2014 01:27

VikasRaina wrote:
Then every Pakistani will get one Id Card. Then who is going to pay up.. hain ji..??
I think everyone should pay to everyone else creating a sort of cross holdings in each others venture resulting in less competition, constant flow of Islamic money and positive sentiments and everyone goes home feeling like a winner.

Bakistan is losing trillions of dollars because of its own people not paying Jizya to everyone else. The world should come to its rescue and donate a trillion dollars to Bakistan. Bakistan is the victim of Terrorism, and Kashmir is a nukular flashpoint.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 12 Sep 2014 01:47

So what exactly is triggering abduls to blow up their own junk boats and junk planes?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Sep 2014 01:59

Modi Aandiya Maaaria Pakistan Cheekha
Equal Equal Nuu Rakh Lai 3.5 Bappua Oye!

[youtube]vl9er5-8tpo#t=24[/youtube]

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Sep 2014 02:25

So I began looking at Google maps for bridges across the Indus, and then trying to find more information. One of the very first ones I picked has this news-item from August 2014:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/744756/crum ... connected/

KARACHI:

The Thatta-Sujawal Bridge that connects four districts to Karachi has been closed for heavy traffic for at least the next three years. Senior officials, however, fear that heavy vehicles may never be allowed to pass through this bridge.

The bridge, which was opened for traffic in 1967, developed cracks before Ramazan and has now been closed for heavy traffic, including passenger buses and goods transport. Repair work is being carried out by the Sindh Coal Authority (SCA), instead of the works and services department, and will take almost three months to be completed.

The bridge connects four districts of the province to Karachi: Sujawal, Badin, Tharparkar and Mirpurkhas. The route was used by motorists as well as by goods transporters and even trucks carrying livestock from Tharparkar to Karachi. The alternative route to Karachi – via Hyderabad – will increase commuting time and distance.

A summary has been sent to Sindh Chief Minister Qaim Ali Shah for approval of a new bridge but there are fears in some quarters that the authorities may delay the construction of the bridge, causing many to suffer for years. There were rumours during Ramazan that the bridge will even be closed for light traffic but officials have categorically denied this, saying that no such decision has been made so far. “It is not yet decided whether the bridge will be closed for all traffic or only for heavy vehicles,” confirmed Rana Suleman, the operations manager of the construction firm. “We have to send the core cutting to the laboratory and will only then be able to comment on whether the ‘life’ of the bridge has finished,” he added.

The Thatta-Sujawal Bridge is the last on the Indus River and is almost a kilometre long. The officials believe it will take almost two to three years to complete the new bridge, if started on time.

I take this as a good omen - that it is not purely idle dreaming to think of disconnecting the two sides of the Indus

Well, maybe I'm still joking

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 12 Sep 2014 02:44

India doesn't have a pakistan problem (actually it does in a way, but Modiji is committed to eradicate that one) - actually the world has Islam problem. For a long time pakistan was able to keep itself as India-focused and then (until exactly 13 years ago today) the rest of the world, especially the amreeka bahadur, didn't give a rodent's posterior about it. On the contrary they kept pontificating to us how we needed to be flexible and generous and scared and solve the pakistan problem. But since that fateful day 13 years ago, pakistan receded into the background and the world (actually amreeka bahadur) suddenly woke up to the big islam problem.

But by this time the amreeka bahadur of yesteryear (the one that had the brains and the testicular fortutide that made and dropped the bombs on Japan and invented a whole bunch of things and generally did a well-disguised impersonation of being the shining city on the hill) had been atrophied in its ability to think clearly or at least speak unequivocally. So either they didn't understand it as world's islam problem or chose to not identify it as such. They called it all kinds of fancy names, axis of evil, goat, khushbu, whatever. Everything, except what it actually was - that the world (and amreeka bahadur in particiular, not to mention the perennial third world country like India) faced an incurable problem called islam. They declared war on everything under the sun but the actual enemy. They declared wars on Afghanistan, EyeRaq, Al keeda, Al qeeda in eyeraq, seriously came close to declaring war of eyeran and god knows what else. Everything but the actual problem.

Imagine if amreeka had declared (cold) war on vodka instead of communism. All the nifty brains of Reagan and wily coyote Kissinger would have done jack to defeat the vodka empire. Who in their right mind would get all riled up and patriotic in a war of Jack Daniels Vs Stolichnaya? The Berlin wall would still be up and the politbyuro would be smuggling iPhones for their Polish mistresses. But thankfully better sense prevailed (or was not absent) at that time and amreeka called a spade a spade. It declared communism to be an evil and the USSR as the evil empire. The rest was history (or the end of history as Fukuyama, the myopic, would have us believe).

Well, the present day does not bode well for any foreseeable future in a bright direction. Amreeka bahadur, continues to declare war on everything but the actual enemy. In cold war terms, what America has done so far is equivalent to have declared war on vodka, bears, baklavas, balaclavas, Russians, Cossacks, Slavs, the word ‘Union’, Tupolevs, Soyuz and a whole bunch of other Russian paraphernalia – except declaring a war on communism. This one is going to drag on for a long, long time.

The only way forward is for Islam to either reform or continue its natural evolution where even the densest of the State Dept janitors will be able to identify and articulate the problem. In my wild guess, it will take another 3-4 decades. Until then, get ready for an ISIS branch opening next door.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2014 03:08

Very well written.
Only change is second last para, second sentence.
IS: 'was'
S/B : "war"

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Sep 2014 03:54

Not sure if ISIS will open a branch next door. The moment it forms a state or a serious government, it will collapse. Toting guns is one thing, collecting taxes and taking out the garbage is a totally different beast. The curmudgeon Naipaul astutely observed (after hearing an ayatollah sermon on FM radio in a German car in eyeran) that political Islam needs "the other" to survive. The other which it can tax, loot, steal the fruits of creative invention enabled by freedom from absurd religious laws* and point as enemy that should be fought against. Once the other is eradicated, the center starts collapsing. Which is what happens in our next door neighbor and will likely happen to ISIS as well

*A smartphone for example would have never been invented in Saudi barbaria. It shouldn't be able to call or text women you are not related to. Shouldn't be able to photograph women you are not related to. Stop working 5 times a day for prayers, not have facility to set animals or statues as wallpaper, not connect to any cell tower taller than the local minaret, not play music or videos the list goes on and on.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2014 04:01

So after the failed coup by non-state actors backed by non-state military, what are the ramifications? Where is the blowback? What do the chatteratti mutter?