Internal Security Watch

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Supratik
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 30 Jul 2018 21:23

Thought it will be 7-8 million. Detention camps are going to be set-up. Govt needs to move fast before they disappear into other parts of India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 083124.cms

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jul 2018 21:45

We need to follow up with this exercise through out India, otherwise doing so in only few states would be futile.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 30 Jul 2018 22:22


Supratik
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 30 Jul 2018 22:51

Manipur has passed an anti-illegal bill.

https://www.mynation.com/news/banglades ... age-pckgmc

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 30 Jul 2018 23:39

Jharkhand proposing to update NRC. Bihar, MH and DL should start too.

https://www.mynation.com/news/after-ass ... yas-pciav8

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 31 Jul 2018 10:19

NRC and biometric authentication (Aadhaar) is a great first step.

Once digital authentication usage becomes widespread and especially once money gets digitized, it will be increasingly difficult to do anything without proving citizenship/identity. The following things will not be possible without digital authentication :

- No enrollment in school
- No property purchases/ownership
- No driver's license
- No utilities
- No working in any medium/large sized private sector company
- No medical care or any govt service
- No rail (and eventually no tolled) road travel
..etc and on it goes.

With these kinds of restrictions, many illegals will opt to self-deport.
If I'm right, the govt won't even need detention camps.
Within 10 years, it won't be possible to live without digital authentication.

A look at the enormous internal snooping infrastructure China has built (to keep an eye on its population) gives a glimpse of things to come.

China's Terrifying "Social Credit" System Has Already Blocked 11 Million From Taking Flights

Image

Hopefully India won't go all the way down that path - but even a little of that will make it impossible to live as an illegal.
In the future, there won't be any such thing as an illegal immigrant.

The downside is it gives govt tremendous power which can be used & abused and hijacked by banksters and other nefarious elements.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2018 10:41

Supratik wrote:Thought it will be 7-8 million. Detention camps are going to be set-up. Govt needs to move fast before they disappear into other parts of India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 083124.cms

What is the end game here?
Who will accept them out of these detention camps or will they be lodged there indefinitely?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2018 11:56

There won't be any easy or smooth process to remove them. Will the govt have what it takes to physically remove them only time will tell.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Jul 2018 13:44





And in other news, DD at it again- "West Bengal will shelter those not on Assam NRC"
We cannot push them back. We believe in humanity,

"This is clearly an attempt to push back Bengalis... where will these people go... what if Bangladesh doesn't take them?" Mamata questioned at her press conference.


And for once I am surprised that even this happened.. "Assam Police registers case against Mamata Banerjee for her comment on NRC update"

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2018 13:49

Karthik S wrote:There won't be any easy or smooth process to remove them. Will the govt have what it takes to physically remove them only time will tell.

Where will they physcially be removed to if the recipient country wont accept them as citizens? I dont think BD will accept even one of them and cant see such huge numbers being physically pushed across

Im still confused what happens to such a huge number of people sitting around in camps. Seems like a nightmare scenario

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Jul 2018 13:53

sum wrote:
Karthik S wrote:There won't be any easy or smooth process to remove them. Will the govt have what it takes to physically remove them only time will tell.

Where will they physcially be removed to if the recipient country wont accept them as citizens? I dont think BD will accept even one of them and cant see such huge numbers being physically pushed across

Im still confused what happens to such a huge number of people sitting around in camps. Seems like a nightmare scenario


That's going to be the crux of the problem. If they are kept in camps, then we are going to be spending money on a section of populace that is unproductive, creating a center for radicalization and creating a huge opportunity for multiple NGO/ Human Rights orgs to make an issue.

This issue is going to be tricky. And unless these guys are pushed out, the illegal inflow will not stop. Its a hard problem to solve.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chandrasekaran » 31 Jul 2018 13:57

The first and the most important step is to ensure that these people cannot vote. Once that's taken care of, the vote bank politics that keeps feeding them will die its own natural death and the rest will eventually follow.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 31 Jul 2018 14:11

chandrasekaran wrote:The first and the most important step is to ensure that these people cannot vote. Once that's taken care of, the vote bank politics that keeps feeding them will die its own natural death and the rest will eventually follow.


As a first step that is a sensible idea. In fact, this spectre of internal displaced persons maybe a red herring. Just ensuring that these people dont get benefits of citizenry would do a whole lot of good.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chetak » 31 Jul 2018 14:42

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
chandrasekaran wrote:The first and the most important step is to ensure that these people cannot vote. Once that's taken care of, the vote bank politics that keeps feeding them will die its own natural death and the rest will eventually follow.


As a first step that is a sensible idea. In fact, this spectre of internal displaced persons maybe a red herring. Just ensuring that these people dont get benefits of citizenry would do a whole lot of good.


mamta begum is already ahead of the game. This is exactly what she is screaming about because beedi her vote banks are affected directly.

Logically, and in the fullness of time, and again, not too far in the near future, the NRC would/should extend to other states.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2018 19:16

sum wrote:
Karthik S wrote:There won't be any easy or smooth process to remove them. Will the govt have what it takes to physically remove them only time will tell.

Where will they physcially be removed to if the recipient country wont accept them as citizens? I dont think BD will accept even one of them and cant see such huge numbers being physically pushed across

Im still confused what happens to such a huge number of people sitting around in camps. Seems like a nightmare scenario


That's why I said does the govt have what it takes. Need to strong arm BD if they don't gracefully take back their people. merely stripping them of voting rights won't do. They still are internal security issue, they are breeding ground for terrorism. They will still find some employment or will indulge in criminal activities.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2018 20:13

BTW, are there 10 Lakh BD hindus among 40 Lakh illegals identified? Just saw it in few twitter handles, hence unable to verify if it's true.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 31 Jul 2018 21:23

The information used for NRC update should be put in a database for those found illegal. This will help in identifying those who escape to other parts of India.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 31 Jul 2018 21:54

There seems to be constant explaining and apologising, by concerned people in Indian TV discussions, about this whole citizen's registry not being a "Hindu-Moslem" issue. Well, yes and no. Of course, India doesn't want a flood of migrants and illegal immigrants from anywhere, Hindu or non-Hindu. But there's also genuine concern/apprehension about the large number of Moslem migrants in Assam and elsewhere. For both historical and current ideological and security reasons, there is naturally going to be an enhanced attention and concern about Moslem migrants, than Hindu-Buddhist ones. Many Hindus have come from Bangladesh because of persecution, or social pressures. This is not lebensraum by them, whereas it is for most of the Moslem migrants. There's a very genuine concern about terrorism from the HUL, Al Qaeda, ISIS and others. No such concern exists for Hindu or other non-Moslems. Indian commentators can also rightly observe the significant, in some places major, reduction in the Hindu population in Bangladesh, and contrast that with the major rise in the Moslem population in India, including in Assam and West Bengal. The refugee/migrant question is not separated from the Bangladesh/Pakistan/Afghanistan/ J&K issue.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 31 Jul 2018 22:51

Next steps in NRC.

1) Put all received data of illegals in a database.
2) Stop giving jobs without authentication.
3) Delete from voter list.
4) Start NRC update in other states.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 01 Aug 2018 06:04

Supratik wrote:Next steps in NRC.

1) Put all received data of illegals in a database.
2) Stop giving jobs without authentication.
3) Delete from voter list.
4) Start NRC update in other states.


You are seriously dreaming. This is being done to legalize them, not deport them.

Modi is going to announce some grand national initiative to wall the entire border with a super duper hi tech fence and shake Bangladeshi PM hand.

It's too late to deport anyone. The system is too leaky and a lot of avenues for escape to other states.

We'll have to learn a big lesson from all this and BJP will be complicit with Cong in turning Assam into another Kashmir.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 01 Aug 2018 06:42

Identification is first necessary step RoyG sir, if not today by modi they can be deported tomorrow. I hope all BJP and ally states do so soon. the illegals will only be left with south India and PB at the most to resettle.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 01 Aug 2018 08:51

Karthik S wrote:Identification is first necessary step RoyG sir, if not today by modi they can be deported tomorrow. I hope all BJP and ally states do so soon. the illegals will only be left with south India and PB at the most to resettle.


You're dreaming too. Bjp will not deport millions. This is an election gimmick to consolidate hold over ne and win wb. There will be an extensive appeal process which will take years especially with India's inefficient judicial system. After elections are over this will all melt away.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chetak » 01 Aug 2018 11:21

RAW Sacks Four Senior Officers For Non-Performance, Part Of Government Drive To Clear Cobwebs



RAW Sacks Four Senior Officers For Non-Performance, Part Of Government Drive To Clear Cobwebs

by Swarajya Staff -

Jul 30 2018,


RAW Sacks Four Senior Officers For Non-Performance, Part of Government Drive To Clear Cobwebs Research and Analysis Wing (RAW)

The country’s top external intelligence agency - the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) has fired four of its senior officers at the joint secretary level for non-performance, Economic Times has reported.

The firings, happening over the last year, are part of a government drive to clean up all government departments of nonproductive officers at senior levels. The sackings have been pushed by the Department of Personnel and Training which back in 2015 let it be known that officers who have completed 30 years of service or have crossed 50 years of age could be let go under certain sections of law.

The officers who have been let go of the RAW has been repeatedly overlooked for promotions and had been turning “unproductive”. All the four senior officers had been serving in key posts in European countries.

According to the report, RAW has let go of compromised personnel earlier but usually under provisions that allowed them to seek remedy in courts.

Minister of State Jitendra Singh had told the Parliament last December that provisions to let go of officers under rule 56(j) had been invoked against 53 Group A officers and 123 Group B officers after July 2014. The said rule allows the government to prematurely terminate officers in public interest after due consideration of the officer’s service record.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chanakyaa » 01 Aug 2018 17:01

RoyG wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Identification is first necessary step RoyG sir, if not today by modi they can be deported tomorrow. I hope all BJP and ally states do so soon. the illegals will only be left with south India and PB at the most to resettle.


You're dreaming too. Bjp will not deport millions. This is an election gimmick to consolidate hold over ne and win wb. There will be an extensive appeal process which will take years especially with India's inefficient judicial system. After elections are over this will all melt away.

+1 odds are against any mass deportation, except some token deportations to put some good show for public. More the better. If it succeeds, Nice brilliant move and timing by the Namo/shah to keep these illegal, malicious voters far far away from being able to cast votes for multiple election cycles to ensure strong hold on NE and hopefully WB is next. Looks like didi is already getting nightmares.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 01 Aug 2018 20:56

You guys are being pessimistic. Let us see what happens. IIRC, appeals is till Sept, 2018 and final draft
Dec, 2018.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 01 Aug 2018 22:03

chanakyaa wrote:
RoyG wrote:
You're dreaming too. Bjp will not deport millions. This is an election gimmick to consolidate hold over ne and win wb. There will be an extensive appeal process which will take years especially with India's inefficient judicial system. After elections are over this will all melt away.

+1 odds are against any mass deportation, except some token deportations to put some good show for public. More the better. If it succeeds, Nice brilliant move and timing by the Namo/shah to keep these illegal, malicious voters far far away from being able to cast votes for multiple election cycles to ensure strong hold on NE and hopefully WB is next. Looks like didi is already getting nightmares.


You understand the game. This is going to be used to consolidate hindus against didi. goal is wb before national elections. everything else is sideshow.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chetak » 02 Aug 2018 10:41

unbelievable Indian media and their state of knowledge and that too an "accredited" news agency

Can we ever trust these buffoons to get it right or are we forever condemned to listen to their demented poppycock??



Image



ANI Verified account @ANI

Sunanda Pushkar Case: Delhi's Patiala House Court allows Shashi Tharoor to travel abroad, directs him to furnish a fixed deposit receipt (and not Flight Data Recorder as reported earlier. error regretted) of Rs 2 lakh before it, which shall be refunded after his return (file pic)

Image

1:13 AM - 1 Aug 2018

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 02 Aug 2018 10:57

Supratik wrote:The information used for NRC update should be put in a database for those found illegal. This will help in identifying those who escape to other parts of India.



Why did they not biometrically ID everyone during the NRC application process.

It makes the whole exercise futile if these illegals cannot be permanently identified.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 02 Aug 2018 11:02

BJP Builds Ground for Assam-Like NRC in Bengal Ahead of Amit Shah's Rally; Calls For Survey in Delhi and Mumbai Too

https://www.news18.com/news/politics/bj ... 31045.html

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 02 Aug 2018 11:20

Assam NRC sparks Rohingya debate, Modi govt says 'can't compromise on security'

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-as ... ty-2643786

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 03 Aug 2018 08:54

Neshant wrote:
Supratik wrote:The information used for NRC update should be put in a database for those found illegal. This will help in identifying those who escape to other parts of India.



Why did they not biometrically ID everyone during the NRC application process.

It makes the whole exercise futile if these illegals cannot be permanently identified.


Like i said - election gimmick.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2018 22:15

There is a recent discovery of 5000 detonators in TN leading to the arrest of 6 persons.
These are fuse lit detonators are from a factory in Hyderabad and are used for rock blasting and mining operations. Not electrical. Delhi Blasts in 2008 were crude bombs.

My concern is if these are for violence in TN cities like Rameshwaram.

Recall during Delhi blast thread in September 2008 there was speculation about which city name begins with R being a target?

viewtopic.php?p=538947#p538947

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2018 06:01


Neshant
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 05 Aug 2018 04:02

All states should have NRC, will be effective in dealing with internal security : Assam governor

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 271460.cms

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 05 Aug 2018 04:14

Good move but they should have biometrically IDed all these people from the start so illegals have a permanent record in the database instead of moving from state a to b. Anyway, better late than never.

There needs to be a nationwide NRC occurring in all states simultaneously soon for illegals to be stopped once and for all.

------

Assam government finalising plan to issue Aadhaar cards; locals say UID must be based on NRC data


As Assam continues to count its citizens, the government has also begun the process of fine-tuning the modalities for the issue of Aadhaar cards — something that was stalled amid concerns that its benefits would be reaped by foreign nationals. The thinking has changed now: Aadhaar could be a tool to track the movements of the aliens that was proving to be a challenging task for the government agencies. Some officials believe that since core services will be linked to the card, a large number will come forward to avail the facility including declared foreigners.

Principal secretary in the department of home and political affairs LS Changsan said that a plan was being finalised to implement Aadhaar and make it available to all residents in the state with no links to the National Register of Citizens (NRC). Last Tuesday, the Centre informed the Supreme Court that biometric details of all people whose names were not included in the NRC would be obtained with the objective of preventing them from migrating to other states.

Representational image.
Reports claiming the movement of Bangladeshi nationals to different parts of the country have surfaced occasionally. More recently, a former police chief of Kerala was quoted by the media as saying that some migrants were hiding in the southern state after procuring documents from Assam. Aadhaar was issued in Assam for some months two years ago, and then had to be halted following protests from political parties and civil society groups.

The BJP and Asom Gana Parishad (AGP) demanded that the NRC must first publish the complete list before Aadhaar cards are issued. This was similar to the stance adopted by the All-Assam Students' Union (AASU), which has been consistently making a case for identification and expulsion of illegal migrants from the state.

The project was revived last year by the government and the home department asked to monitor the process. In a couple of months, as many as 1,241 locations were identified across the state as Aadhaar Kendras for the distribution of cards. Deputy commissioners of all the districts were directed to supervise the process and appoint "verifiers" at every centre. Some banks had also begun the process of Aadhaar enrollment for their customers. And that was where everything was stuck again for a long time without any movement forward.

Information given by the government in the state Assembly reveals that only about eight percent of the total population of Assam has availed of Aadhaar so far in Sonitpur, Nagaon and Golaghat. In March 2017, the state government had also informed the Supreme Court of its inability to stick to the 31 March deadline for linking Aadhaar with other core services.

But the new urgency to implement the project could fuel another controversy since many civil society groups would lay more stress upon completion of the NRC. Advisor to AASU, Samujjal Bhattacharyya was categorical that Aadhaar must be based on the NRC. "What is the logic of giving Aadhaar when the NRC exercise is already on and monitored by Supreme Court? It's true that citizens working and studying outside the state are facing problems, but the government can definitely work out a mechanism to resolve this issue," he said.

Bhattacharyya’s views were echoed by Palash Changmai, general secretary of the Asom Jatiyatabadi Juba Chatra Parishad (AJYCP), another prominent and radical student organisation in the state in the vanguard of the anti-foreigners agitation. He said that the group’s disagreement with the government’s decision on Aadhaar had been had been declared months ago. “Let the NRC be completed first. There is no reason to add more complexity to the process,” he noted.

Local groups fear that Aadhaar will allow the illegal migrants to have access to core services as the citizens which could be an additional hurdle to deport or shift them from the state to other locations. Possession of the card, they feel, could also be evidence in court to stall any attempt at evicting them from their homes.


https://www.firstpost.com/india/assam-g ... 82401.html

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 05 Aug 2018 05:23

Supratik wrote:You guys are being pessimistic. Let us see what happens. IIRC, appeals is till Sept, 2018 and final draft
Dec, 2018.



unless other states do the same and link the NRC to Aardhar, its not going to work

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 05 Aug 2018 06:53

Neshant,

Election gimmick. GoI is not going to send 20 million people back to Bangladesh. You see it already. Amit Shah going state to state invoking NRC as war cry. People will vote for BJP and then issue will disappear forever. Goal is WB. This is the last piece of the puzzle which will give BJP continuous stretch across Gangetic plains into NE. Mamata fell for the trap and now she is going to face a huge backlash. Just watch.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 05 Aug 2018 13:50

West Bengal is delibrately trying to delay Assams NRC drive.

_______

Assam NRC: Prateek Hajela says 1.05 lakh could not make it to list as West Bengal govt didn't verify documents

https://www.firstpost.com/india/assam-n ... 67721.html

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 06 Aug 2018 05:20

Neshant wrote:West Bengal is delibrately trying to delay Assams NRC drive.

_______

Assam NRC: Prateek Hajela says 1.05 lakh could not make it to list as West Bengal govt didn't verify documents

https://www.firstpost.com/india/assam-n ... 67721.html


She is guaranteed win after win b/c she keeps the illegals. BJP wants to isolate them enough and build hindu backlash to break into the state. The goal is to win WB and whip up nationwide anger against illegals. Same thing with Article 35A.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Neshant » 06 Aug 2018 23:11

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
sum wrote:Where will they physcially be removed to if the recipient country wont accept them as citizens? I dont think BD will accept even one of them and cant see such huge numbers being physically pushed across

Im still confused what happens to such a huge number of people sitting around in camps. Seems like a nightmare scenario


That's going to be the crux of the problem. If they are kept in camps, then we are going to be spending money on a section of populace that is unproductive, creating a center for radicalization and creating a huge opportunity for multiple NGO/ Human Rights orgs to make an issue.

This issue is going to be tricky. And unless these guys are pushed out, the illegal inflow will not stop. Its a hard problem to solve.


As services, job applications, schools, train ticket purchases, bank accounts, voting and eventually getting paid require biometric authentication, it will become harder and harder to be an illegal. These illegals will begin to self-deport back across the border if they cannot make a living.
What is important for now is biometrically identifying these ilegals so there exists a permanent record of them and getting them off the voter list.

Updating the NRC nationwide has to be the next step and soon. Only the NRC should be the basis for getting an Aardhar card.

Prateek Hajela's NRC database system needs to be rolled out in other states for this purpose.


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