Internal Security Watch

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Vips
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vips » 30 Nov 2019 10:57

arshyam wrote:
Vips wrote:
Death sentence for the rapists/murderers is a certainity. It was well planned and pre-determined/pre-meditated.

This case is a litmus test for the Indian criminal justice system. All the courts (Lower through High Court/Supreme Court) should pass and maintain the death sentence. usually what happens is the lower court gives the death sentence but it gets converted into life sentence (which means only 14 years in jail) on appeal to higher court. This shitty system needs to go and the sentences needs to be made more stringent.

To start with Life sentence should mean entire life without parole like in the US.



Anyone who gets life imprisonment takes advantage of "good conduct in jail" rule(Good conduct here means not being involved in any criminal activity during jail stay) and gets his sentence reduced to 14 years and is out at the end of those 14 years. In between he also comes out on parole and furlough

The rule should be clear no commuting of sentence and no parole whatsoever.
Last edited by Vips on 30 Nov 2019 11:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2019 11:04

Truth is the Judical system has broken down deliberately, for corrupt Politicans and NGO mafia, criminals are very useful. They will cough up the money and get bail for these when the deliberately stop covering it in the media. We have seen numerous times there is no justice through the Judicial system in Media, NDA-1 tried fast track courts but the Media Judicial- cinema system said it was illegal.

I am telling many Indians do not understand the kind of civilization war which has been unleashed. It is not by accident that many of the trouble making folks in JNU are very well taken care off.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Zynda » 02 Dec 2019 22:43

One thing I am noticing after the recent horrific & tragic attack is lack of standardization in emergency helpline numbers (& apps) across the country. I am seeing all kinds of 3 digit numbers starting from 100, 108 & now 112. Further, each city police force have their own apps?

I was under the impression that 108 has superseded previous emergency numbers for different services (if my memory serves right...100 was for police, 101 for fire & 102 for ambulance) and is consolidated.

Honestly, in times of crisis, it would be really difficult to remember which number to reach out to. I do hope that we establish one easy to remember number system like 911 or 999 for all emergencies.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 03 Dec 2019 12:10

Zynda wrote:Honestly, in times of crisis, it would be really difficult to remember which number to reach out to. I do hope that we establish one easy to remember number system like 911 or 999 for all emergencies.

112 is now going to be the emergency number in India going forward. And it would be for all emergency services (police, fire, medical). The move to make 112 as the emergency number is going on at a steady pace. Each state is adopting it in a phased manner. Kerala has already moved to 112. But district police control rooms would still retain the number 100. 112 goes to a state level command centre. What is also happening is that all the highway police and control room mobiles are being equipped with tablet devices. This would be the primary mode of contact between the state level command centre and the individual patrols. The district & city controls essentially would be on wireless, but they too can (and would) move to using the tablet based communication system. Wireless would then be retained for redundancy purposes.

108 at least in Karnataka was a number to call up the free ambulance service. 101 is used by the Fire & Rescue. In Bengaluru city 103 was used for reaching the "Hoysala control" (i.e the control room under which the 24/7 patrol mobiles reported to). Then there were a series of 4 digit numbers, which was all the more confusing. 1012 (?) for women's issues, 1080 for BESCOM/Power Supply etc. etc.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Zynda » 03 Dec 2019 19:27

^^Thanks saar. Good to hear that there has been significant movement in adopting a single number...112 it is then!

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vips » 04 Dec 2019 18:37

Chhattisgarh: ITBP jawan shoots dead 5 colleagues, commits suicide.

"The ITBP personnel who shot his five colleagues committed suicide with his own rifle and died on the spot.


According to officials, constable Masudul Rahman who belonged to Nadia in West Bengal fired at and killed head constable Mahendra Singh (Bilaspur, Himachal Pradesh), head constable Daljit Singh (Ludhiana, Punjab), constables Surjit Sarkar (Burdwan, West Bengal), Biswaroop Mahtoo (Purulia, West Bengal) and Bijeesh (Kozhikode, Kerala).
Two jawans who were injured and are undergoing treatment are constable SB Ullas (Tiruvandaapuram, Kerala) and constable Sitaram Doon (Nagour, Rajasthan).


ITBP is now trying to give a spin to this 'incident' as a clash between two groups. What is clear is that a jehadi possibly a bangladeshi origin person has in a pre meditated move killed 5 of our brave jawans.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vips » 04 Dec 2019 18:37

Chhattisgarh: ITBP jawan shoots dead 5 colleagues, commits suicide.

"The ITBP personnel who shot his five colleagues committed suicide with his own rifle and died on the spot.


According to officials, constable Masudul Rahman who belonged to Nadia in West Bengal fired at and killed head constable Mahendra Singh (Bilaspur, Himachal Pradesh), head constable Daljit Singh (Ludhiana, Punjab), constables Surjit Sarkar (Burdwan, West Bengal), Biswaroop Mahtoo (Purulia, West Bengal) and Bijeesh (Kozhikode, Kerala).
Two jawans who were injured and are undergoing treatment are constable SB Ullas (Tiruvandaapuram, Kerala) and constable Sitaram Doon (Nagour, Rajasthan).


ITBP is now trying to give a spin to this 'incident' as a clash between two groups. What is clear is that a jehadi possibly a bangladeshi origin person has in a pre meditated move killed 5 of our brave jawans.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Dec 2019 08:19

What the heck is this? Is this instant justice of Telangana police for the Veterinary doctor rape & murder? :eek:

All 4 accused in Hyderabad vet rape and murder case killed in police encounter
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2019-12-06

దిశ హత్య కేసు నిందితులు ఎన్ కౌంటర్ | Disha Case Incident | ABN Telugu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGkgFSrrhkw

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 06 Dec 2019 08:25

IIRC, similar thing was done in the acid attack case a few years back

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aarvee » 06 Dec 2019 08:27

sum wrote:IIRC, similar thing was done in the acid attack case a few years back

yup, same top cop was involved then in Warangal when YSR was the CM.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Skanda » 06 Dec 2019 08:30

ShyamSP wrote: ...
All 4 accused in Hyderabad vet rape and murder case killed in police encounter
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2019-12-06


Will be interesting to know whom the liberal media will Lynch now given that Telangana has no BJP Govt. Plus, some sort of street justice was required here. The parents of one of the killers was brazen to say, "my son is a juvenile so he will be fine".

Also, a precedent has been set perhaps lessons learnt from the nirbhaya trial.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Skanda » 06 Dec 2019 08:32

Seems like they were shot when they were reconstructing the scene for evidence. They apparently escaped and were done with. But then, who tries to reconstruct evidence at 2.30AM?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Dec 2019 08:35

Aarvee wrote:
sum wrote:IIRC, similar thing was done in the acid attack case a few years back

yup, same top cop was involved then in Warangal when YSR was the CM.


They have a lot of experience in AP/TS from Naxal encounters over many decades. The excuse police are giving is 4 accused escaped during scene reconstruction. It looks like a scene construction for encounter like they show in Hero cop movies.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gerard » 06 Dec 2019 08:47

As the Ryan International School case showed, the Police, in their zeal to solve high profile crimes, sometimes arrest the wrong persons. In this case, were they trying to cover up ineptitude? Have the real killers escaped? We may never know.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Skanda » 06 Dec 2019 08:50

Gerard wrote:As the Ryan International School case showed, the Police, in their zeal to solve high profile crimes, sometimes arrest the wrong persons. In this case, were they trying to cover up ineptitude? Have the real killers escaped? We may never know.

There was a scroll/wire article that profiled the mother of one of the killers. She basically lamented that her only son was the sole bread earner and she is not sure what she will do henceforth.

She also said that on the day of the crime he came home and kept blabbering about a murder and he was all agitated. I think the police might have gotten the right folks in this case at least.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby abhik » 06 Dec 2019 09:28

Skanda wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: ...
All 4 accused in Hyderabad vet rape and murder case killed in police encounter
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2019-12-06


Will be interesting to know whom the liberal media will Lynch now given that Telangana has no BJP Govt. Plus, some sort of street justice was required here. The parents of one of the killers was brazen to say, "my son is a juvenile so he will be fine".

Also, a precedent has been set perhaps lessons learnt from the nirbhaya trial.

IIRC the laws were changed to try juveniles as adults after the Delhi case, so they were not going to be "fine".

This obvious encounter is just covering up systematic failures in policing/law & order for some instant gratification.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2019 09:43

Not merely that, the question is whether the similar encounters stopped the acid attacks. If so, this might very well work. I have said this before, there are multiple Indias. And for one India, this kind of wild-west justice is what works as deterrence. And sometimes the cops do know more than us about that.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshan » 06 Dec 2019 09:44

Finding out about the degree of involvement of each and background information is lost. Public anger also pacified to not be forced to take any drastic cleanup action within institutions.

Will they now change the procedure to make sure that the truck is really disabled during safety checks? If one were to buy that story. Everyone of them has seen every trick in the book and to claim that they were tricked by the simplest trick in the book. I also have the simplest thought that may be some currency notes were circling around the truck.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ssundar » 06 Dec 2019 09:47

This just seems too easy and too good to believe. Is there more? Police could have killed them in an encounter immediately following the incident. That would have been more credible.

Rumblings of beef mafia connection, additional high-profile rapists, real criminals escaped, etc. on SM. Hope real justice prevailed.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2019 09:50

Can never predict what will/might be the truth, have to go by the official line. Definitely protects all politicos involved.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aarvee » 06 Dec 2019 10:10

A couple of close family friends who retired but were high up in AP/TS transport (Div commiss/break inspect/RTO etc) were mentioning that there is no way he could have disabled the truck by disconnecting the wire and the officials couldnt figure that out. They know all the tricks in the book. more likly explanation was that he was let go even without a DL after they received their share.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 06 Dec 2019 10:28

After this sad rape & murder incident, I had a feeling that there would be some "counter plan" from the political class. My gut feeling was that the Nirbahaya rapists would soon see the gallows. But looks like Telungana Police had a different plan in mind. But still, my gut feeling that Nirbahya rapists time-to-go is fast approaching. All legal options have been dried up, and Tihar Prison's only problem seems to be lack of an executioner. If they are really serious, they can approach Maharashtra Govt.
My daughter's soul at peace: Vet's father on encounter
Police did a great job: Nirbhaya's mother on encounter

sum wrote:IIRC, similar thing was done in the acid attack case a few years back

Aarvee wrote:yup, same top cop was involved then in Warangal when YSR was the CM.

Skanda wrote: They apparently escaped and were done with. But then, who tries to reconstruct evidence at 2.30AM?

IMHO, such decisions are generally taken with approvals coming from very high up in the government and political circles. In Coimbatore, TN in Yr. 2010 the city police had shot dead two child rapists. It was the same scenario. The rapists were picked up, they had admitted to the crime. And fearing public protest police takes them to the spot at midnight to finalise the crime scene mahassar. And their one of the rapists gets all uppity and snatches a rifle from the police guard. And in their further attempt to escape they were shot dead. Rumour during that time was that Coimbatore Police even had the approval of the Chief Minister to "go ahead".

In the incident in Hyderabad, I don't expect much traction on the case now. Human right-wallahs will try to milk the situation. But the dead rapists are not from very rich or even middle class background. Human right-wallahs may induce them with offers of money etc, but police would have by then have gathered enough evidence to show their involvement in the crime. Public sympathy also is any way for the rape victim and not for these four people. In the long run if the family of rapists try to act smart they will be really left in the lurch.

Karan M wrote: I have said this before, there are multiple Indias. And for one India, this kind of wild-west justice is what works as deterrence. And sometimes the cops do know more than us about that.

Exactly. In one version of India you have wanna-be Whites; who from their comfortable zone wants to preach about how rest of India should behave. These folks have good job/business and money so much so that they can be assured of a comfortable life style. And then there is the other version of India where it is ultimately street justice which works out. The police - how much ever we abuse them - actually are very sharp people who know the pulse of the society, than the arm-chair generals sitting and watching TV debates. The political class would be the next best experts who follows, understand and judge the attitudes of the society. The worst louts these days seems to be the main stream media corps.

ssundar wrote:Police could have killed them in an encounter immediately following the incident. That would have been more credible.

That would have caused more damage to the police & the case. One there would be a question whether they were the right people. Secondly, the police had actually gone on record that they have identified the criminals and "arrested" them. I am sure that the police would have done all their home work throughly, and gathered enough and more evidence to prove that the dead men were involved in the crime. They will keep this handy to be used when Human right-wallahs starts their gimmicks.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nachiket » 06 Dec 2019 10:37

While it is immensely satisfying to see those animals dead there is nothing to celebrate about here (and I see a lot of that on Twitter and Whatsapp). The police are just covering up their incompetence and inability to conduct an actual investigation constructing a real case that can get a conviction in the court by basically committing extra-judicial killings. Are we absolutely sure all 4 were definitely involved in the crime? Or that there was no one else involved as well? We will never know now. If this is normalized sooner or later the police are going to end up killing innocent people and we will have only ourselves to blame.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 06 Dec 2019 10:49

nachiket wrote:The police are just covering up their incompetence and inability to conduct an actual investigation constructing a real case that can get a conviction in the court by basically committing extra-judicial killings. Are we absolutely sure all 4 were definitely involved in the crime?

:roll:. Why don't the legal luminaries and arm chair generals just don a police uniform and conduct the investigations themselves? I am sure they will certainly surpass the Telengana Police known for their incompetence and inability. The indian judicial system is extremely slow, and to be frank it is now very favourable to criminals. We are still aping the British judical process & systems which worked once upon a time in a tiny country like UK. This case would get dragged on for ever. There are lawyers who are willing to help the criminals; not because of their sense of justice but that would help them get more name & fame. There would be appeals after appeals. And after some time every one would lose interest. And the right time the human right wallahs will come up with their sob story. That the accused are from poor families, they did not know right and wrong and one is also from a minority community and that itself means that they can do no wrong. The main stream media would also parrot the line. And all said and done, the dead lady is not a close relative of any police official who is investigating the case. Why should the police show any long term interest in a case which does not effect them also on a day to day basis?

We talk about the great and efficient Western society and how law abiding they are. They became such a community partially because of the brutal legal system they had a couple of centuries back. There were around 100+ offences (which included even stuff like robbery, based on the value of stuff robbed) which led to execution in UK. There were times in UK, when there where executions at the rate of nearly one every day. And it was this brutal way, which made every one more disciplined and ultimately the society improved.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Dec 2019 10:58

nachiket wrote:While it is immensely satisfying to see those animals dead there is nothing to celebrate about here (and I see a lot of that on Twitter and Whatsapp). The police are just covering up their incompetence and inability to conduct an actual investigation constructing a real case that can get a conviction in the court by basically committing extra-judicial killings. Are we absolutely sure all 4 were definitely involved in the crime? Or that there was no one else involved as well? We will never know now. If this is normalized sooner or later the police are going to end up killing innocent people and we will have only ourselves to blame.


This is real problem and my fear too. Also this closure will stop all extra heat the incident is putting on government, police, and courts and they now go back to business as usual.

Fast track justice system is need but nothing is being done in that direction. If criminal justice system is like this, forget about any low intensity criminal or civil cases being solved fairly and/or sooner. I know some cases including a case against a police that are still accumulating dust with no direction or movement.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aarvee » 06 Dec 2019 11:13

Sachin wrote:
nachiket wrote:The police are just covering up their incompetence and inability to conduct an actual investigation constructing a real case that can get a conviction in the court by basically committing extra-judicial killings. Are we absolutely sure all 4 were definitely involved in the crime?

:roll:. Why don't the legal luminaries and arm chair generals just don a police uniform and conduct the investigations themselves? .......


Saar, while I dont have any sympathy for the four, the incompetency of TP can not be ignored in this case. Fact of the matter is that they did not act swiftly and just tried to hand ball it to others by talking about jurisdiction. They could have sent a constable to the area to check it out! Its not far. On top of it the careless and empathy less comments like are you sure she didnt elope with her BF? dont help their case as well.

The problem with encouraging these "encounters" is the oversight. Today people are happy because everyone is convinced the 4 are the culprits. Tomorrow something similar happens and if an entrepreneurial/go-getter inspector takes matters into his own hands and "encounters" 4 without sufficient evidence? Will every one be happy? Where does this end? May be they could have been encountered after they got convicted and awarded death penalty?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 06 Dec 2019 11:19

ShyamSP wrote:Fast track justice system is need but nothing is being done in that direction. If criminal justice system is like this, forget about any low intensity criminal or civil cases being solved fairly and/or sooner.

Sir, the root cause of people losing faith in democracy (in general) and the society not being honest is the present judicial system in India. The earlier we realise this (as a society) the better. The executive, the police system all would fall in line when the judicial system is revamed for the Indian society. Westminster styled justice system does NOT work well in India. We accuse the IAS, IPS etc. of being brown sahebs and how they follow a British implemented system and make undue advantage out of it. The same can be said about the legal fraternity as well. There are a huge gang of "Human right wallahs", legal luminaries (!?) who are absolutely comfortable with the present judicial process as they all make money and fame with it. Take for example folks like Indira Jaisingh or a Kapil Sibal who operate in the highest court of a country like it was a magistrate's court. They can approach the Supreme Court for pretty much any case/issue they deem fit. This is when there are undertrial prisoners with no clout, who are serving prison time more than that which they have got if actually found guilty.

The whole system is archiaic and designed to be operated in an external land/society which is ruled as a colony. This justice system does NOT believe the "native" police so have huge legal procedures to even check the process of serving a simple court summons. The paper work involved is still humungous, so much so that learning that itself is an art by itself and people can work as "agents/petition writers". There is absolutely no process which is actually time bound. Cases can be defferred, postponed quite liberally. Also check the number of actual working days in courts.

ShyamSP wrote:Fast track justice system is need but nothing is being done in that direction. If criminal justice system is like this, forget about any low intensity criminal or civil cases being solved fairly and/or sooner.

Sir, the root cause of people losing faith in democracy (in general) and the society not being honest is the present judicial system in India. The earlier we realise this (as a society) the better. The executive, the police system all would fall in line when the judicial system is revamed for the Indian society. Westminster styled justice system does NOT work well in India. We accuse the IAS, IPS etc. of being brown sahebs and how they follow a British implemented system and make undue advantage out of it. The same can be said about the legal fraternity as well. There are a huge gang of "Human right wallahs", legal luminaries (!?) who are absolutely comfortable with the present judicial process as they all make money and fame with it. Take for example folks like Indira Jaisingh or a Kapil Sibal who operate in the highest court of a country like it was a magistrate's court. They can approach the Supreme Court for pretty much any case/issue they deem fit. This is when there are undertrial prisoners with no clout, who are serving prison time more than that which they have got if actually found guilty.

The whole system is archiaic and designed to be operated in an external land/society which is ruled as a colony. This justice system does NOT believe the "native" police so have huge legal procedures to even check the process of serving a simple court summons. The paper work involved is still humungous, so much so that learning that itself is an art by itself and people can work as "agents/petition writers". There is absolutely no process which is actually time bound. Cases can be defferred, postponed quite liberally. Also check the number of actual working days in courts.

Aarvee wrote:May be they could have been encountered after they got convicted and awarded death penalty?

:lol:. Fat chance. This getting "convicted" itself will take years to complete in India. Okay the local session courts finds them guilty and gives them death penalty. But they are in judicial custody. How can the police "encounter" any one, when they are actually in a prison? And even if that can be managed there would be people who would say, how can they be "proven guilty" when there are higher courts like High Court and Supreme Court which can hear their appeals? And based on that there would be folks who would say that "encounter" can happen after all possible courts give them the death penalty. Now for such thing to happen in India, it would take 15-20 years. If what you said is taken as a possibility there is only one set of rapists who are fit to be encountered; those are the Nirbhaya rapists. And actually the problem there now is that the prison does not have an executioner. The sad truth is that all this human right issues, appeal process, and legal hoopla jumping is a business in India. There are folks who make a money out of the poor judicial system in India.
Last edited by Sachin on 06 Dec 2019 11:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: response added.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vikas » 06 Dec 2019 11:34

A part of me says ,'Well done TG Police' while the other part of me is petrified that cops are being applauded for what is plain murder. All uncomfortable questions now will be buried in some file till next girl gets raped and killed.
Knowing that it has already been over 7 years since Nirbhaya rape case and yet the culprits are enjoying their lives, Sometimes quick justice is need of the hour. A stronger message would go out to the society rather than just hanging the culprits after a decade but can we trust/allow our cops to decide who to encounter and who to let go.

How does one reconcile these multiple conflicting feelings ?

PS: How do you hope the get justice in a country where courts are over burdened, Investigation is pathetic and higher courts are more interested in adjucating on Santa-Banta Jokes, noise of a cracker, Height of Dahi-Handi, Bail to WhatsApp group members and running BCCI.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chetak » 06 Dec 2019 11:49

This was an easy one since non muslims were also involved.

It thus becomes a secular act of justice in a twisted way.

If all the accused were from among the pissfools only, then the telangana govt would not have had the political b@!!$ to do this.

Do remember that the telangana home minister is muslim and clearance would have come from supporting political parties to find a via media solution.

The backlash was spreading around the country very fast. Multiple protests and processions were seen even in bangalore demanding death for the rapists. This is one way to contain the damage before more personal details came out damaging the abrahamics.

four male mannequins with the noose around their necks were spotted in many traffic junctions and the people in the procession each had typical lootyens WKK like shielded candles in their hands and all seemed like they were from the abrahamic lot. I watched tow such processions go by. This was preparation for the encounter and such organising ability does is not spontaneous but speaks of a much larger political power pulling the puppet strings to contain the damage.

This is a deeply considered political decision.

Have a strong suspicion that more than one abrahamic cultists were among the accused.
Last edited by chetak on 06 Dec 2019 12:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2019 12:07

Fact of the matter is this is not the first time this has occurred. Are people here unaware of what happened when Yogi took power, or when Nitish decided in his first term to trim Lalu's support system? This is the way things are. For things to change, Modi or the executive has to crack down on the cosy nest of special interests the judicial, law and order system has become. In the Unnao case, the victim has been burnt alive by the rape accused. Cops didnt provide protection, post bail which is provided to such folks, but not people facing fake cases.

I keep repeating this. Law and order is only for the middle class. Those who follow it, avoid trouble, try to behave as if they are in a rules based society. For the uber rich, a Sibal will open the darwaza of any court at midnight. For the politicians, the MSM will screen the above so there is an additional layer of security. For the poor & feral, L&O is just a joke. Its all about whether they get caught or not. They don't watch CSI like the middle class. Have no idea of forensic whatever. So they commit crimes and try to hide the evidence by getting rid of the victim. The middle class is hard pressed with everything from western accusations of bigoted patriarchy, to 498A, to whatever is in fashion in the west and mindlessly regurgitated by the rich elite and applied on the m(u)ddle class to make them sufficiently woke.

Now, given the hard scrabble existence of the poor, and the fact that many times, they are victimized without having committed any crime. The Indian state and its elite, turned a nelsons eye to human rights wallahs who'd intercede in every case. The muddle class watched it happen. But now, its gone to the point many groups are insulated from the consequences of their criminality and any sufficiently powerful lower-economic strata group pushes the cops around with impunity, whether it be auto-drivers or fanatical M's from some ghetto or any powerful politicians gang irrespective of caste/creed.

We are the only ones standing with mouth agape at this state of affairs. Once, again, I ask - did the encounter killings of the acid attackers in erstwhile AP have an effect? If so, you have your answer about whether this encounter may or may not have an effect on its target demographic.

Without the intent to trigger anyone here, y'all are not the specific segment this action was directed against.

chetak
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby chetak » 06 Dec 2019 12:50

do lootyens patrakars have different rules :mrgreen:


twitter


Look at Tehelka Tejpal rape case of 2013 Nov - Two times SC Ordered to finish the trial in ONE YEAR two times. But Tejpal played all tricks to delay the trial. Accused person will go for all legal recourse.Hope this time Trial Court will speed up after SC's Second Order to finish

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 06 Dec 2019 14:06

Many opinions and CTs on encounter killing. I have a bad feeling about this. The very purpose of a trial is to prove an accused as guilty, innocent till proven guilty. With encounter two problems. In a given case the accused won't have a chance to prove his innocence, cops can pick up someone, give 3rd degree treatment, get a confession and then the police can encounter him or her.
Second problem is that case will most likely be closed, hence we will never know if the rabbit hole is's deeper than what it appears to be.

Saw a tweet seeing the vet doc was onto some illegal slaughterhouse etc IIRC. So we will most likely never find out of there was more than what meets the eye.
Last edited by hnair on 06 Dec 2019 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Warning issued. Will wait till you bring in a legit report, before banning

Vikas
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vikas » 06 Dec 2019 14:09

Karan M wrote:..
I keep repeating this. Law and order is only for the middle class. Those who follow it, avoid trouble, try to behave as if they are in a rules based society. For the uber rich, a Sibal will open the darwaza of any court at midnight. For the politicians, the MSM will screen the above so there is an additional layer of security. For the poor & feral, L&O is just a joke. Its all about whether they get caught or not. They don't watch CSI like the middle class. Have no idea of forensic whatever. So they commit crimes and try to hide the evidence by getting rid of the victim. The middle class is hard pressed with everything from western accusations of bigoted patriarchy, to 498A, to whatever is in fashion in the west and mindlessly regurgitated by the rich elite and applied on the m(u)ddle class to make them sufficiently woke.
----
We are the only ones standing with mouth agape at this state of affairs. Once, again, I ask - did the encounter killings of the acid attackers in erstwhile AP have an effect? If so, you have your answer about whether this encounter may or may not have an effect on its target demographic.

Without the intent to trigger anyone here, y'all are not the specific segment this action was directed against.


Encounter was more for getting the rapist monkey off the back rather than sending message to any criminal. Now everyone can have a sigh of relief and go back to regular life. Singham movie is over guys.
Now no one will ask the govt as why there was no cops around or why her sister had to run from one Precinct to another to get the complaint lodged as per media.
Meanwhile some other girl somewhere is getting raped while Media applauds the encounter specialists.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 06 Dec 2019 14:46

Karan M wrote:For things to change, Modi or the executive has to crack down on the cosy nest of special interests the judicial, law and order system has become.

I bolded the right part, because did not want to add one more item in Mr. Modi's TODO list. He is not the only saviour around :).

For the uber rich, a Sibal will open the darwaza of any court at midnight. For the politicians, the MSM will screen the above so there is an additional layer of security. For the poor & feral, L&O is just a joke. Its all about whether they get caught or not.

Perfectly put, and it is the truth. In India the folks who are on perpetual worrying mode are the middle class. It is they who want to aspire to reach higher levels, and also become more financially secure. It is also they who try to cling to the maximum social norms etc. And they are also the people who also pay taxes on time etc. The rich & powerful any way have money and hired brains to save them from the arms of the law. The poor folks are any ways ignorant of the law, and mainly focus on day to day existence. Consider the four now dead rapists. For them all it mattered was cheap liquor and a woman's body to play around. They have no clue on the criminal justice system in India, nor are they bothered about it. Hoping that such people would be afraid of the arms of the law are very high hopes. In this category perhaps only justice which works is instant justice, often involving pain. If these people were put up to the Indian way of justice, they will all get excellent privileges at the prison, improve their health conditions and perhaps even come out in better physique and health (which other wise they would never get).

Karthik S wrote:The very purpose of a trial is to prove an accused as guilty, innocent till proven guilty.

If and when that happens, the accused would be well past into their 50s :lol:. Enjoying their time either out on bail or in prison, with timely healthy meals and comfortable stays (perhaps better than what they get at home).

Saw a tweet seeing the vet doc was onto some illegal slaughterhouse etc IIRC.

That angle can still be investigated - using mobile records or taking witness statements with girl's friends and well wishers. Right from why the girl reached the place where the crime happened etc. etc. can still be traced and investigated (which the police most likely would have done by now).

Vikas wrote:Meanwhile some other girl somewhere is getting raped while Media applauds the encounter specialists.

I am not supporting criminal deeds, or supporting the police. In a country like India expecting a 100% crime free society is wishing for the moon. And a society generally gets the police it deserves. A corrupt, petty minded society is not going to have very many angels in the police force.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Karthik S » 06 Dec 2019 14:56

Sachin saar, I know and I agree about long delayed closure to cases in India. But the main pupose of having a judiciary is to make sure an innocent is not wrongfully convicted. Encounter killings goes against the same principle.

Having said that, court system is a mess. Saw a news from Rajasthan wherein a rape accused got out on bail, went to his victim's place and stressed both the victim and get husband.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

Gautam_2
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gautam_2 » 06 Dec 2019 15:03

when will we demand police reforms? Still dealing with 1961 police act.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vikas » 06 Dec 2019 15:41

general Query :
How exactly can Judiciary and Police be made more efficient, humane, less corrupt and contemporary ? Are there any top 2-3 ideas which could be implemented by a willing state or central Govt ?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby hnair » 06 Dec 2019 16:49

Used to be a time when being arrested for a capital crime like murder or rape used to be like testing HIV+ in the '80s. You know at some point that you get full-blown HIV and a defining illness like Caposi's Sarcoma, die an agonizing death with all the social stigma attached with it. But nowadays, you can lead a decent life with HIV-cocktail drugs and has to at best "make some life-style changes" :-o

Similarly, used to be a time, if you commit a capital crime in India (even if it is involuntary manslaughter or negligence), you are ostracized by society and mostly spend in jail till trial. Even during trials, you are made to cut a sorry figure. BMW case and Salman Khan case seem to have changed that. Now there is a clear-cut modus operandi among legal community, to make the long drawn out trials and review petitions into nothing more than "make some life-style changes" for the perpertrators :-o

But unlike HIV, here the victms (if alive) and their families have to undergo real torture and trauma of being revisited again by the perps.

Let me put it this way - if I am the dad of that girl and comes to know of a plan by cops to boff them off, I will say give me their gun and shoot all four in a jiffy. I would rather face the consequences as this dad has done, than put any cop's career in jeopardy. Such is the mind-numbing nature that our entire criminal justice system has evolved into, despite "Fast track courts" etc

Here is another dad who did the extreme step, surrendered and stood trial

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gerard » 06 Dec 2019 17:12

Now no one will ask the govt as why there was no cops around


India only has 138 police per 100,000 population. Italy has 453 per 100,000

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi ... ld_map.svg


Image

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshan » 06 Dec 2019 17:47

chetak wrote:This was an easy one since non muslims were also involved.

It thus becomes a secular act of justice in a twisted way.

If all the accused were from among the pissfools only, then the telangana govt would not have had the political b@!!$ to do this.

+1
Did TV interview brigade ever trace down family and pictures of the muslim mastermind involved? Truck owners? Routes? Cargos?


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